In Case You Missed This Nugget From Snowden's Letter To Brazil...

[WillyT]

Item number three is Edward Snowden wrote a letter to the people of Brazil about what was happening to them. It was an appeal for asylum as well. But to me the core of the letter was what he said to the people of Brazil is don't kid yourself. The mass spying that is taking place in Brazil is not about stopping terrorism; it's about the United States getting economic advantage, political advantage, and in the end it's about power.

And that's a very powerful statement. It's one that every person who hears about NSA spying ought to understand. This is not about terrorism. This is about the U.S. empire, U.S. power, U.S. hegemony, probably an increase in the spying as the U.S. empire is on the decline and it has a different world to compete in than it did after the Second World War or after the collapse of the Soviet Union. So that's the third point.

From: http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=11227

From the letter...

American Senators tell us that Brazil should not worry, because this is not "surveillance," it's "data collection." They say it is done to keep you safe. They're wrong. There is a huge difference between legal programs, legitimate spying, legitimate law enforcement — where individuals are targeted based on a reasonable, individualized suspicion — and these programs of dragnet mass surveillance that put entire populations under an all-seeing eye and save copies forever. These programs were never about terrorism: they're about economic spying, social control, and diplomatic manipulation. They're about power.

The letter in full: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/17/edward-snowden-letter-brazilian-people

[G_j]

1. K&R!

for truth

[VanillaRhapsody]

2. Actually it is about control of the Internet...

But then Snowden didn't object to it when that silly White Texan was in office!

[MyNameGoesHere]

5. Yeah he is a racist.

He hates silly black Hawaiians. That was his whole motivation.

[VanillaRhapsody]

12. Well seems funny to me he was all about the spying when the White guy was in office

but sings a different tune when the first Black guy is....

If it walks and quacks like a duck...

[Uncle Joe]

34. Do you believe Snowden believes that Obama will be President for life?

Sometimes people don't make major life altering decisions in a snap, it takes time for the dawning of realization to take place.

[VanillaRhapsody]

36. Do you think someone who leaks classified information is a hero?

or should be shot in the balls as Snowden did?

[Uncle Joe]

41. It depends on what the classified information was and to some degree the motivation for doing so

as to whether they're a hero or not.

I'm against capital punishment but you never answered my question.

"Do you believe that Snowden believes that Obama will be President for life?"

[VanillaRhapsody]

57. What a stupid question What in the world is that question supposed to box me into?

[WinkyDink]

116. Your implied racism imputed to Snowden?

[VanillaRhapsody]

164. Yes...he is a Libertarian isn't he? Do you know any that aren't? I don't

[rhett o rick]

190. This isnt about Snowden. Vilifying him is as nine. Are you trying to use misdirection to distract

from the real problem? Do you support the strong armed authoritarian state? If so, how can you claim to be "politically liberal"??

[VanillaRhapsody]

191. I have been posting on this thread all day...seems there are many who DO think it is ABOUT

Snowden...they sure do defend his honor vigorously....

[rhett o rick]

230. I am not surprised that open-minded people would defend him against

the spurious attacks by conservatives. Conservatives love strong, authoritarian states and spit on those that speak out for freedom and liberty.

The reason conservatives attack whistle-blowers, is because they dont like to upset the big daddy authoritarian leaders, like Clapper and Alexander. Therefore, they attack the messenger, because they cant deal with the message. The message that shakes their comfortable world of denial.

You imply that Snowden is racist. Even if he is racist, that doesnt excuse the NSA from violating our Constitutional rights.

Those that would detract us from investigating violations of the Constitution, align themselves with our enemy.

[VanillaRhapsody]

232. Open minded like Racist Libertarians are?

Yeah REAAAAALLLL open minded!

Funny you seem to think that anyone who opposes Snowden MUST be a Conservative...even though you know many who have NEVER voted for a Republican or a Conservative or spouted Conservative talking points somehow must be one...without any evidence other than not being a Snowden fanboy!

[rhett o rick]

234. Good grief! "Racist Libertarians"? Most open-minded people are not racist, but

nice strawman.

"Oppose Snowden". What does that even mean? Snowden pulled the curtain back on the NSA. If you "oppose" that, I would love to hear your rationalizations.

Again you are trying to put words into my mouth because you cant respond to what I do say.

Here's what I think: Those that disparage whistle-blowers do so because they support the corporations or authoritarian state. I think that those that disparage Snowden specifically, do so because they cant deal with the information that possibly their "god-like" devotion to the authoritarians like Clapper and Alexander is misplaced and that they are not looking out for out best interests.

[VanillaRhapsody]

235. Again....prove to me that Libertarians aren't also racists...

I'll cue the Jeopardy theme song while I wait for you to think of one...

[rhett o rick]

237. Once again you try to put words in my mouth. I have never claimed that Libertarians are or are not

racist. It is simply a distraction from investigating the NSA.

Your loyalty to the NSA is weird for a supposedly "politically liberal".

Conservatives hate whistle-blowers.

[VanillaRhapsody]

236. OH and what you "think" is not necessarily so is it?

just because you THINK Snowden is not just another Libertarian racist...doesn't make it so...

Oh yeah and not JUST another Libertarian Racist...buy a Hypocrite too! He thought that people who have done what he did under George W Bush should be shot in the balls. Perhaps that's what makes him the coward that he is!

[rhett o rick]

238. I am fed up with your discussion tactics. I DID NOT SAY SNOWDEN IS OR IS NOT

A LIBERTARIAN RACIST. I said it has nothing to do with the issue of whether the NSA is violating our Constitutional rights.

I give up trying to discuss with you.

We are in a class war and you seem to choose the side of the 1%.

[VanillaRhapsody]

239. No that is YOU projecting what I am doing...you know nothing of the sort...

what you think I "seem to choose" is just your imagination....I think snowden is a hypocritical, racist Libertarian coward. And I have the evidence to back it up based on his statements...I don't "seem to think" it....I know it.

[rhett o rick]

240. I find your obsession for Snowden strange. Do you even care about the NSA transgressions? nm

[VanillaRhapsody]

242. I find your defense of him strange....

I find that the NSA transgression and Ed Snowden are not synonymous...I can seperate the two issues...why can't you?

[rhett o rick]

243. My only "defense" is to question the conservative obsession to vilify him.

He may be all the things you claim to know for a fact. (I always discount arguments from anyone that claims that they know the facts) You only know what Bill O'Reilly told you. Your stance is the same as the Republicans. You hate Snowden and worship Clapper and Alexander. But even if he is a racist, what does that have to do with the NSA?

The main issue isnt that Snowden is a racist (as you claim to know for a fact) it's that the NSA may be taking great liberties with our security.

Those that vilify Snowden side with the conservatives and the authoritarian 1%.

[VanillaRhapsody]

244. Hate to burst your bubble...but not everyone who opposes Snowden are all Conservatives..

this is where you go off the rails and why your defense is sooooo strange. You cannot seperated Snowden FROM the NSA....yet you will say it is not ABOUT Snowden. Incongruous.

[rhett o rick]

247. You and Bill O'Reilly agree. nm

[VanillaRhapsody]

248. So? Didn't I say not every one? That implies some are doesn't it?

[rhett o rick]

250. Go away. I think your favorite Faux News show is on. nm

[VanillaRhapsody]

251. You first....

I'm not going anywhere...I support Democrats not Libertarians...

[rhett o rick]

252. You support centrists not Democrats. Centrists that see eye to eye with conservatives.

Centrists like Clinton that are in bed with Wall Street, love the Patriot Act and domestic spying.

We are in a class war, and you choose the wrong side.

[VanillaRhapsody]

253. No I support Democrats period...

Conservatives and Republicans and Libertarians are the wrong side....I am none of those.

[VanillaRhapsody]

254. I guess it just never occurs to you that you could be the "Fringe"

just like they have on the Right. That's a different perspective isn't it?

[rhett o rick]

241. Why Edward Snowden Is the Definition of a Whistleblower

David Sirota speaks to those that still are determined to kill the messenger:

Of course, there still remains a cottage industry of tough-talking saber rattlers slamming Snowden not merely for being in a foreign country, but more revealingly, for the disclosures themselves. These demagogues often invoke the age-old law-and-order cliches about classified information. Yet, based on what we now know, their criticism of Snowden actually puts them on the side of those who are systemically violating the very laws and constitution, which they purport to love.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101681115

[VanillaRhapsody]

245. He IS the definition of a coward...I will give you that.

[rhett o rick]

246. Well on that you and Fox News agree. nm

[VanillaRhapsody]

249. and what is your point? This is what is wrong with your premise...

You think everyone who disagrees with you is a Republican.....

[VanillaRhapsody]

192. and by the way....I am using actual statements made by Snowden to support my contentions

that he is just a racist Libertarian...

Supports Rand Paul
Hates Social Security
And a Gun humping NRA supporter...

What are the chances he is not also just another racist with an axe to grind?

If he doesn't matter....why do so many attempt to defend him from the fact that he is a racist Libertarian?

[Demeter]

203. He's 29, for Chrissake!

Maturing rapidly, thanks to events....

...Something I think that the Snowden attackers will never do...(mature, or reach 29 without somebody taking them out for being sanctimonious assholes).

[VanillaRhapsody]

223. WTF does that mean? He has had the right to vote for over 10 yrs...

are you worshipping an adult or a child?

[enlightenment]

228. For someone who doesn't like being "boxed" in

your certainly like your boxes. Broad-stroke stereotypes that make it oh, so easy for you to draw specious correlations. Pulling the "racist" card every time someone does something you don't like is weak.

Supporting Rand Paul makes someone pretty foolish - but not necessarily racist.
Hating Social Security again is a foolish stance, but not necessarily racist.
Belonging to or supporting the NRA isn't something I would choose to do, but it doesn't necessarily make someone racist.

You don't like the guy - that's fine. Stop there and no one would argue with your choice. But you can't do that; you have to find some super-special "my reasoning tops your reasoning" argument. The only problem is that your argument is flawed. You asked, up thread, if there was such a thing as a Libertarian who isn't racist. The answer to that question is yes, not no - so everything you claim from that point forward is built on a false premise.

[VanillaRhapsody]

229. You don't seem to understand how I meant "boxed in"

or you are pretending not to...

I used that phrase to describe a technique to attempt to piss people off by making them answer irrelevant questions that tries to limit the answer the person can return. Often when they don't get their expected response...they claim you didn't answer them...Piss them off hoping they say something that can be alerted on in their frustration...

Yeah....I Know all about this...

I am still waiting to hear of one Libertarian that isn't racist...

[VanillaRhapsody]

231. Oh and no I don't...

I haven't had ONE of you return one name of a non-racist Libertarian...

This is why YOUR premise is false...

[WinkyDink]

114. Depends, does it not? Daniel Ellsberg is today pretty much considered a hero.

[George II]

120. Yes - and Ellsburg stayed in the United States and willingly faced prosecution

It never ceases to amaze me that people compare Snowden, the gutless coward, to Daniel Ellsberg.

[WillyT]

122. That Was A Differnt Time... And The Government Back Then Screwed Its Own Pooch...

Obama Has Charged More Under Espionage Act Than All Other Presidents Combined

The U.S. government charged former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden with three felonies, including two under the Espionage Act. He now becomes the eighth person to be charged under the Espionage Act under Obama, according to Firedoglake. That is more than double all previous presidents combined. Prior to Obama’s administration only three people who leaked information had been charged under the 1917 statute that was never really intended for leakers. The arguments that Obama uses now to use that statute to go after those who reveal information were first brought up by Ronald Reagan’s administration when it went after a Navy civilian analyst who leaked photographs to a British military magazine. But now the practice has become widespread.

Link: http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/06/22/edward_snowden_is_eighth_person_obama_has_pursued_under_espionage_act.html

And BTW... Ellsberg Disagrees With You:

Snowden made the right call when he fled the U.S.

Link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/daniel-ellsberg-nsa-leaker-snowden-made-the-right-call/2013/07/07/0b46d96c-e5b7-11e2-aef3-339619eab080_story.html

[On the Road]

215. "Obama Has Charged More Under Espionage Act Than All Other Presidents Combined"

If you think about that statement for any period of time and compare it with the size of intelligence efforts throughout US history, you will see it is just as ridiculous as his claim that he had the authority to wiretap the president.

I'm surprised he didn't leak the news about the secret FEMA camps. We could have a heads-up on that one, too.

[randome]

216. Excellent point.

Not to mention that Obama expanded whistleblower protections. Whistleblowers get protections. Leakers get prosecuted. There is a difference.

Snowden had options but none of them involved being heroic. His real persona was on display when he was 26 and wrote that leakers should be shot in the balls.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[VanillaRhapsody]

225. So has Ellsberg said he would have fled to China, Russia and begged Brazil for asylum?

and are you trying to say that THIS administration is more dangerous than what was going on under Nixon? Were you even alive then?

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[fasttense]

210. Yes, I believe that Snowden is a hero

We all know classifying information in the government is used more to protect politicians and the powers that be, to hide mistakes and cover up blunders, then to protect our nation or the people of this nation.

It's mostly a way of hiding information that the government does not want its citizens to know.

Very few classified documents should be classified at all.

[VanillaRhapsody]

226. You just described EVERY Govt....

sheesh!

[MyNameGoesHere]

74. Or without calling into question his

racism, which you don't have evidence of and a flimsy connection at best, maybe he didn't have the opportunity until Obama was in office. I know the playbook. When the message is seems to show a chink in the aura, then call the messenger a racist. You're not the first to use this tactic.

[VanillaRhapsody]

77. Maybe he is a Social Security hating NRA supporting Libertarian too...

Fuck Ed Snowden and the horse he rode in on!

Libertarians for the most part are just racists afraid to call themselves Republicans!

[MyNameGoesHere]

81. Now that you have exploded are you feeling better?

And really why the bestiality? Horses are apolitical.

[VanillaRhapsody]

83. He is a freaking Social Security hating, Gun Humper....that speaks volumes to me...

as it SHOULD to you...

[MyNameGoesHere]

85. You left out racist that time.

You're slipping. How's the blood pressure? Whatever you do don't stroke out. That would be tragic.

[VanillaRhapsody]

89. that is because THAT is what I am using to prove he is...

how many Libertarians have you met that are not also Racist hmmmm?

Maybe its your stroke you should be concerned about?

[MyNameGoesHere]

110. Not I, I am not the one that is flailing arms and gnashing of teeth

you made a racist comment to point out that snowden is a racist, yet provide no proof. Now if you could have been able to omit the inference that he only did this because Obama is black', I may have not goaded you along. However you were fun to play with and you keep zinging comic gold. I appreciate your humoring me tonight.

[VanillaRhapsody]

124. I am not flailing at all you must be projecting

because I am convinced he couldn't be the only Libertarian that I ever ran across that wasn't a racist.

YMMV I guess. But as far as flailing.... I am not the one defending the cowardly, Libertarian turn coat am I?

I am pretty damn satisfied with my contention.

Would like to see your proof that he is the only non-racist Libertarian though....you don't even have to flail this time...

go!

[MyNameGoesHere]

126. I didn't defend him

I just pointed out you made a racist comment. I added other more likely reasons for not reporting under bush. I don't know what he is. I know that he brought to light that something is wrong in America for those who did not listen before. Now if you feel the need to make it all about race instead of being spied on, well then that's on you. By the way the fucking libertarian and horse fucking are indeed flailing of arms. They mean nothing and have no impact on your original statement that this is all about race.

[VanillaRhapsody]

138. Yes...either that or you jumped into the middle of a discussion to defend someone who WAS!

[Maedhros]

128. Hey, VanillaRhapsody

Maybe Snowden didn't reveal the crimes at the NSA during Bush's tenure because he didn't start working for the NSA until 2009?

Snowden left the CIA in 2009 and began work for Dell, a private contractor, inside an NSA facility on a US military base in Japan .[15] Snowden remained on the Dell payroll until early 2013.[53] Persons familiar with the 2013 government investigation into Snowden's history said that Snowden had downloaded sensitive NSA material in April 2012.[54] NSA Director Keith Alexander has said that Snowden held a position at the NSA for the twelve months prior to his next job as a consultant,[55] with top secret Sensitive Compartmented Information clearances.[56] Snowden took a six-day Certified Ethical Hacker training course in 2010 in India.[57][58][59][60] USIS completed a background check on Snowden in 2011.[61]

Snowden described his life as "very comfortable", earning a salary of "roughly US$200,000".[62] At the time of his departure from the United States in May 2013, he had been employed by consulting firm Booz Allen Hamilton for less than three months inside the NSA at the Kunia Regional SIGINT Operations Center in Hawaii,

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden

That makes your whole "racist" argument appear kind of stupid.

[VanillaRhapsody]

131. uh no it doesn't he's a Libertarian isn't he?

hates Social Security....check!
big gun humping NRA fan.....check!

and you think he is NOT a racist too?

You ever met one that wasn't? Cause I haven't....

[Maedhros]

135. From the Republican playbook,

you're a Liberal, right?

Hates America? Check.

Wants to destroy family values? Check.

Out to murder unborn children? Check.

Waging a war on Christmas? Check.

Wants to indoctrinate all of our children into the homosexual lifestyle? Check.

Can you see how assigning a label to someone and then using it to ascribe motivations and judge the worth of their character is wrong?

[VanillaRhapsody]

143. Yeah but I can prove he humps guns and hates social security...

can you prove those things about me?

[Maedhros]

154. Do you understand how simply calling names

degrades the quality of a discussion board?

Can you bring some reasonable analysis to the table? Some give-and-take? Some open mindedness to certain concepts, such as "attacking the messenger doesn't do anything to refute the message?"

[VanillaRhapsody]

156. who is calling who names?

I am calling Snowden a Libertarian..

[pnwmom]

200. Here's the difference, Maedhros.

Those things you listed about liberals are falsehoods.

Libertarian economic beliefs, stated truthfully, reveal their holders to be greedy, selfish pigs. Virtually nothing separates them from the economic policies of the worst of the teabaggers.

[G_j]

196. you are nuts

I'm not a fan of Libertarians, but what makes you such an authority that you know every single one of them is a racist?
Insanity...

[ZombieHorde]

127. Who cares if he is racist or not?

His views on race are irrelevant to this situation.

[VanillaRhapsody]

133. No they are not....it goes to motivation...

and he hasn't proven anything HAS happened just that it could...

but he has cowardly tried to suck up to so far three other nations...

[ZombieHorde]

140. His motivation is irrelevent.

The NSA has admitted to some of the things he said, and we are told some changes will be made, but we don't know if that will actually happen.

[VanillaRhapsody]

142. Motivation is NEVER irrelevant...

[ZombieHorde]

144. His motivation doesn't change what has been happening.

His motivation doesn't change the situation.

[VanillaRhapsody]

146. doesn't change what? That the capability exists? That is all he has said...

meanwhile he has taken up residency in Russia and begged for asylum in Brazil....and he offered his knowledge of US secrets to secure that asylum (they rightfully denied that request)

And he took his job TO steal govt secrets...

he hates social security and loves the NRA and guns....

but you want to praise him as a hero....

ends don't justify the means....

[ZombieHorde]

159. Have you not been following the story?

The NSA has admitted to spying on Americans more than what most Americans find acceptable.

[VanillaRhapsody]

160. still nothing from Snowden proving that it happened...

the NSA is capable yes....they admit that...

but have they spied on YOU? You don't know...

[ZombieHorde]

161. I think the NSA confession, which resulted from Snowden's actions,

is pretty good evidence. Why would they confess to unpopular activity if they weren't doing it?

[VanillaRhapsody]

168. what "confession" are you talking about?

have they said they could do it? Yes..

[ZombieHorde]

170. The NSA admitted to spying on millions of Americans.

I forgot how many association leaps they admitted to, but it was more than most Americans found acceptable.

[VanillaRhapsody]

224. they admitted they could...they have access to to several huge privately owned servers...

[BrainDrain]

211. Dear Sir...

We of the National Security Agency would like to inform you that you have been spied upon. We have collected your private electronic correspondence without your consent and in secret. Please feel free to continue your life as if we don't exist and our activities are in no way shape or form either and infringement of your constitutional rights or an admission to breaking any laws we don't really care for anyway.

Your continued cooperation through delusional self-denial is appreciated.

Yours Truly,

The National Security Agency

[VanillaRhapsody]

227. You wrote this...and you think something is wrong with MY position?

you call me delusional?

[LanternWaste]

218. Almost as tragic, yet much more irrelevant, than petulant snark.

Almost as tragic, yet much more irrelevant, than petulant snark rationalized.

[Comrade Grumpy]

118. Wow, I think that's a new low.

[Aerows]

205. Quacking and walking and screen name n/t

[Aerows]

204. You should be careful

about using that analogy. Because I'm seeing some walking and quacking

Your moniker is extremely interesting.

[pnwmom]

197. He's a libertarian fronting for his libertarian buds.

They see their best chance now.

[Lifelong Dem]

214. Silly?

I see where you stand.

[mike_c]

6. is that the next Snowden straw man...?

I don't believe Snowden was involved when "that silly white texan was in office." He began working for Dell on the NSA contract in 2009. He did work for the CIA as an IT consultant from 2007-2009, but would not have had access to the NSA document trove until acquiring his sysadmin credentials at Dell and NSA, presumbably.

[VanillaRhapsody]

14. Its NOT a strawman...did he or did he not support the spying while George W. Bush was

in office Yes or No?

[mike_c]

18. I have no idea, nor do I think it's at all relevant....

I mean, did you support them? Did you even know about them? Really, be honest, because if you can say that you knew about the NSA surveillance abuses that Snowden has revealed then the question becomes "why did you abet keeping them secret?"

But the point is that whether Snowden knew or even cared about NSA abuses while Bush was in the WH has exactly zero bearing on whether or not I and the rest of the world feel betrayed by THIS administration, whom we certainly did NOT believe would continue, expand, and defend those abuses.

You're right, it's not a straw man. It's a smoke screen. A shiny distraction that has no relevance to the actual truth of events at all.

[VanillaRhapsody]

20. Oh YES its relevant...

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/07/06/have-we-all-been-fooled-by-edward-snowden/

SNOWDEN: HOLY SHIThttp://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/washington/11iran.html?_r=1&hp

SNOWDEN: WTF NYTIMES

SNOWDEN: Are they TRYING to start a war? Jesus christ they’re like wikileaks

User19: they’re just reporting, dude.

SNOWDEN: They’re reporting classified shit

User19: shrugs

User19: meh

SNOWDEN: moreover, who the fuck are the anonymous sources telling them this?

SNOWDEN: those people should be shot in the balls.

[mike_c]

25. ah-- now I feel all better that the NSA conducts warrentless universal surveillance...

...on private citizens without probable cause. That changes EVERYTHING.

Sheesh.

[VanillaRhapsody]

38. No it doesn't but I don't jump at the chance to make someone my hero....

who opposes ANY form of American govt.

I don't support Libertarians...do you?

[MannyGoldstein]

92. If a Libertarian gives me a million bucks

Should I not take it?

[VanillaRhapsody]

93. If a Libertarian gives you a million bucks....you can bet he expects something for it...

are you going to comply?

[MannyGoldstein]

95. A million bucks, no strings attached

Suppose my dad is a Libertarian (he's not!) and he wants to give me a million. As a gift.

Should I take it?

[VanillaRhapsody]

96. A Libertarian would NEVER give you a dollar...much less a million of them...

its against their nature...

In fact the Libertarian Snowden thinks YOU shouldn't get Social Security!

[MannyGoldstein]

101. My dad's old, and he doesn't want the government to get

the cash when he dies.

Should I take it?

[VanillaRhapsody]

105. Who cares what your father does? I don't but Snowden thinks he doesn't deserve his

Social Security check...that's a fact!

[pnwmom]

201. He didn't utter a word of complaint while Bush was in office.

He waited till Obama was President.

It is one thing to have revealed the US spying on its own citizens. But continuing to reveal how the US has been spying internationally crosses the line. Why do we have the CIA and the NSA? To spy. And all the other major countries do it, too.

[mike_c]

221. and that is still utterly irrelevant to circumstances today....

eom

[pnwmom]

233. It is completely relevant to the OP

in which he is criticizing the US for trying to compete for economic and political power.

For some strange reason, he never found reason to criticize any Rethug for doing the same thing.

[WinkyDink]

117. It doesn't MATTER. People can see the light at any time. It's the seeing that matters, not the date.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

13. Congratulations!

You win the "Dumbest Post of the Day Award"

Clap, clap, clap

[VanillaRhapsody]

15. actually if you never read what Snowden said about spying during those years...

then your post would be dumbest.

But here you go:
SNOWDEN: HOLY SHIThttp://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/washington/11iran.html?_r=1&hp

SNOWDEN: WTF NYTIMES

SNOWDEN: Are they TRYING to start a war? Jesus christ they’re like wikileaks

User19: they’re just reporting, dude.

SNOWDEN: They’re reporting classified shit

User19: shrugs

User19: meh

SNOWDEN: moreover, who the fuck are the anonymous sources telling them this?

SNOWDEN: those people should be shot in the balls.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/07/06/have-we-all-been-fooled-by-edward-snowden/

[ChisolmTrailDem]

17. He didn't even get the information he did until AFTER 2009 so wouldn't have had it in

order to NOT release it while shrub was in office (I presume your inferring that he would have sat on it to protect the White president).

So your statement is just a lot of anthropomorphized straw.

But whatever. I said what I think and I'm out.

[VanillaRhapsody]

26. baloney...he thought people who leaked under a republican should be shot....

under the first black democrat...

he dithered!

Your hero is severely flawwed.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

39. Snowden IS NOT my hero. I am, if anything, on the fence regarding Snowden. My posting

history will bear out the fact that I have rarely, if ever, even commented on the issue. So, your labeling him as my hero is as big a fail as trying to advance this theory of yours that he was racially motivated.

[VanillaRhapsody]

40. apparently HE is you cannot stand by and let his "reputation" be sullied by the truth.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

44. I don't give a shit about his reputation. I do give a shit that I am being

spied on by my government.

It's like the Klayman thing and the ruling by Judge Leon. I don't give a shit that it was Klayman that brought the suit. That doesn't negate the fact that what the NSA is doing is a treasonous violation against the 4th Amendment Constitutional rights of myself and all Americans.

[VanillaRhapsody]

49. You apparently give a shit about Snowden...

just because they CAN do it...doesn't mean they have spied on you does it? Snowden has provided NO evidence that it has happened...only that it could.

Sorry but I don't support those that leak classified information then run to China...Russia and even seek asylum in Brazil...offering to help them oppose us in trade.

I DO care that a person leaking who knows what to who knows where...He ran like the coward that he is!

Now he has made himself untouchable....even a country like Brazil holds no truck for him...

[ChisolmTrailDem]

51. Oh, Lord. Ok, there's no reasoning with you. I already said I don't give a shit about Snowden.

You have chosen to disgard that.

So, I'm out.

Have fun with your racial motivation theory. I don't really give a shit anymore.

Hopefully we'll run into each other on better ground next time.

[VanillaRhapsody]

52. Actions speak louder than words don't they?

I have a theory about most Libertarians which I believe is what Snowden is..They support legalizing Pot but are racists and want to end Welfare and Food Stamps for those who they perceive receive the bulk of those funds...Blacks (I know thats not true but try to convince a racist of it)....They are too cowardly to call themselves Republicans.

Thus where my theory points to Snowden....

[Phlem]

61. +1

"Oh, Lord. Ok, there's no reasoning with you."

You've hit the invisible wall of reason and there is NO bipartisanship here!

We used to call them Republicans.

-p

[VanillaRhapsody]

62. Are you calling me a Republican?

because that is an alertable offense apparently as I got alerted on for calling someone by their name...who's very name included that word....

So you make the call...should I or shouldn't I?

[Phlem]

65. Do whatever you want to do. You've just landed on full ignore.

Goodnight Princess.



-p

[VanillaRhapsody]

67. not a Princess or a Republican here...and that is sexist by the way!

Yeah way to prove I hit a nerve..

[cui bono]

153. More like Snowden hit a nerve on you!

Wow. Your posts in this thread are truly exceptional. Do you really not see how nonsensical everything you are saying is? You're not helping your hero with that lame "racism" excuse.

[VanillaRhapsody]

155. Not at all...I am only replying to my responses...

Lame?

point out another Libertarian who isn't racist...

[cui bono]

255. You made the claim that Snowden's actions were because of racism. The burden is on you to prove it.

Whether Libertarians as a whole are or are not racist is not the issue.

[VanillaRhapsody]

256. Yes and I stand by it...Suddenly he changed his mind about what should happen

to those who leak classified information...right about the time that the first Black man was elected....

He is a Rand Paul following Libertarian.

2+2 still equals 4 last I checked.

[cui bono]

257. Prove it. You prove nothing without evidence.

Others have posted that he did not suddenly change his mind when Obama was elected. Show that he has. You have to have the "2"s to add together if you want to get to "4".

[VanillaRhapsody]

258. Okay easy....

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/07/06/have-we-all-been-fooled-by-edward-snowden/

He also had no problem with Bush’s warrantless wiretapping program, saying:

SNOWDEN: these are the same people who blew the whole “we could listen to osama’s cell phone” thing the same people who screwed us on wiretapping over and over and over again [sic] Thank god they’re going out of business.

[NuclearDem]

181. That post was alerted on because you were being disruptive and behaving like a troll.

That post was simply the last straw.

The exact same behavior you're displaying here.

[VanillaRhapsody]

182. NO it wasn't...I read it...

Because I don't support Snowden? That might be disruptive to your sensibilities....but that is all I have done...

I don't support Libertarians...I support Democrats.

[NuclearDem]

183. Nope, the post you're referring to was alerted on because you were being disruptive and insulting.

At Sat Oct 26, 2013, 04:49 PM you sent an alert on the following post:

Over and Over and Over IS a Demand "Republican"!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3928371

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS:

Not just this post in particular, but this poster has been aggressively trolling throughout the thread and denigrating other DUers who are doing little more than attempting to explain things to them.

Please kick them out of this thread.

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Sat Oct 26, 2013, 04:55 PM, and voted 5-1 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: Enough.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: Agree with alerter.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: I'd go even further than kicking them out of the thread and kick them off DU if I could. From many of their other posts I think they're a returning recidivist disruptor.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given

Thank you.

[VanillaRhapsody]

184. see the word "Republican" there...that was the dudes name...

[NuclearDem]

187. And your post wasn't hidden because of that.

It was hidden because you being disruptive and crossing the line into insulting and intentional agitating.

[VanillaRhapsody]

188. Yes that is what the jury was voting on....

I called him "Republican" for short....and that's what the jury saw...




Don't tell me what I know to be a fact...I was there...

and as a matter of fact...you are trolling just for bringing it up and trying to silence me by idly threatening me....

[Comrade Grumpy]

119. I think you had the wrong word in quotation marks there:

There, I fixed it:

apparently HE is you cannot stand by and let his reputation be sullied by the "truth."

[VanillaRhapsody]

123. the truth that he is a Libertarian that supported George Bush's spying and

hates Social Security and is a Gun Humper...



and you DOUBT that he is a racist too?

It's not much of a leap if you ask me...


but if you want to believe he is the ONLY Libertarian that isn't racist...then I guess that is your version of the "truth"

[Maedhros]

129. Your post is very revealing.

You posted:

baloney...he thought people who leaked under a republican should be shot....

nder the first black democrat...

he dithered!

Your hero is severely flawwed.

You are clearly projecting. Flip that around: VanillaRhapsody was outraged at warrantless surveillance when a rich white texan was president, but when the first black democrat does it, it's fine.

[WillyT]

130. Great Point...

[VanillaRhapsody]

134. YOU are supporting a Social Security hating....Gun Humping Libertarian....

doesn't that sort of say something about YOU then...since you are using THIS theory?

[Maedhros]

137. I'm not supporting anyone.

I'm simply refuting your nonsense.

[VanillaRhapsody]

139. Denial is not a river in Egypt...

or if you are not defending him then all you really want to do is step to me....

that makes you a troll doesn't it?

[Maedhros]

151. Well, you are putting up post after post

of shrill nonsense.

Trolls seek to create an environment of shrill nonsensicality.

I would prefer the number of shrill nonsensical posts on DU to decline.

[VanillaRhapsody]

152. post after post because about a dozen snowden supporters are responding

simultaneously...

geez how long have you been on DU?

[Maedhros]

158. I recommend an introductory course in Logic.

Would help you avoid using so many fallacies and would strengthen your ability to engage in good-faith debate.

Right now, you're just yelling at people.

[neverforget]

147. And you're supporting right wingers like Cheney, Peter King, John Woo, etc.

What does that say about you?

[VanillaRhapsody]

149. You have never seen me on a thread doing that...but I HAVE seen you on one

doing what I just accused you of!

[neverforget]

150. Look in the mirror

and you'll see you have become what you hate the most.

[VanillaRhapsody]

157. I am a racist because I hate racists?

how does that work exactly????

[neverforget]

162. No. You accuse others of being Libertarians because they think what Snowden did was

a service to this Country. I turned that around to show the shallowness and stupidity of that argument because the people you support are Cheney, Peter King, John Woo, etc because they agree with you. See how dumb that argument is?

[VanillaRhapsody]

165. NO...I accused Snowden of being a Libertarian....

I accused them of supporting one...

see how dumb your argument is?

[neverforget]

166. Thanks for making my argument!

[VanillaRhapsody]

169. You don't have one.....but thanks for the laugh...

pathetic actually...

[neverforget]

171. Seriously. Stop digging. Actually don't as you're comedy gold.

[VanillaRhapsody]

176. You haven't made a single point so far....were you trying to?

did it hurt?

[neverforget]

179. I made my point and you proved it. Thanks for playing.

[VanillaRhapsody]

180. there was a point? Uh no...epic fail if you thought so....

I am neither a racist nor a Libertarian...but the chances that Snowden isn't both of those....is slim and none.

That's my point...just out of curiosity...what did you think yours was?

[neverforget]

186. I explained it but you choose not to get it.

[MyNameGoesHere]

220. Bingo!

This person has had me in stitches for over a day now. This is the Daily Show material.

[Jack Hollis]

194. I am beginning to think you are sick

I am 73 years old and come from a family of democrats all the way back to the civil war but I will be damned if I ever met one so full of hate and poison as you are. You are scary as hell.

[TBF]

209. Welcome to DU Jack Hollis.

[George II]

125. How do you know that he wasn't trying before 2009, but wasn't able to get it?

[ChisolmTrailDem]

178. I don't know, and as I've said already in this USELESS thread, I don't give a shit! n/t

[WillyT]

21. It's Called Having Your Eyes Opened, And Evolving...

I believe President Obama went through a similar process when it came to Marriage Equality.

There are lots of things I used to believe that I no longer believe...

That can happen when presented with new information.

[VanillaRhapsody]

23. its called hypocrisy...I suggest you look it up!

[WillyT]

29. So President Obama Is A Hypocrite ???

Is that what you're saying ?

[truedelphi]

45. Of course Obama is not a hypocrite.

He is our first African American president. The likes of a Nelson Mandela, a champion of the poor, a scorner of the rich, tireless campaigner against dirty fuel and for "Clean Energy" like Natural Gas and Big Nuke plants, etc.

While Snowden is a dirty little turn coat who tried to expose some very serious goings on that we Americans probably don't have time to deal with, as our personal energy really should be spent admiring our First African American President!

[WillyT]

47. Oh... Ok... I Stand Corrected...

[VanillaRhapsody]

63. well it certainly shouldn't be blowing up the skirt of the dirty little turn coat should it?

[ChisolmTrailDem]

24. But the comment suggests the Snowden had the information during the White president's

term and sat on it to protect that president, then only releasing it to damage a Black president.

It's just a dumb premise. Sorry.

[VanillaRhapsody]

28. No it isn't seems everything changed for him when the FIRST black man was elected...

you think that is a coincidence? I don't!

[ChisolmTrailDem]

33. I have never even once raised within my own thoughts that Snowden's motives have/had

anything to do with race of concurrent presidents. Sorry.

But if you have any evidence to support your supposition, I'll gladly take a look.

[VanillaRhapsody]

60. Just because YOU never thought of it...doesn't mean it is not true!

Libertarians are Pot smoking racists...

Snowden is a Libertarian... 2 + 2 still equals 4.

[Maedhros]

132. There are many different strains of Libertarian

that span the political spectrum from Left to Right. You are drawing a caricature of Libertarians - a straw man, if you will - and then using it to ascribe motivations to Snowden.

That's as misguided as Republican caricatures of black welfare queens or freedom-hating Liberals.

[VanillaRhapsody]

16. You were saying?

[ChisolmTrailDem]

19. See post #17. And, BTW, before you alert (if you haven't already), please understand...

that I was not calling you dumb. I said your comment was dumb.

I've said some dumb things, also. We all do.

[VanillaRhapsody]

22. You see mine...while a White Republican President was in office...he thought

people who did what he did should be shot in the balls...

When the first Black President is elected.....He thinks HE should leak classified information...

Coincindence? I think not....

[ChisolmTrailDem]

30. You're only speculating his motives. You even admit it: "Coincindence? I think not...." ...

Keyword being "think".

[VanillaRhapsody]

31. aren't YOU doing the same thing?

[VanillaRhapsody]

32. besides...saying "I think not" is a figure of speech...

perhaps that is where you go off the rails in the first place....taking things at face value!

[ChisolmTrailDem]

42. It's cool, VanillaRhapsody. You are, of course, free to believe what you want. The only thing

I give a crap about is that my government is spying on me.

Whether what Snowden did was right or wrong, I'm not sure in my own mind. But I do know that what the NSA is doing is treason and that agency should be disbanded and thrown in the trash can of history.

[VanillaRhapsody]

58. FACT is you don't know that they ARE doing it...only that they could....

[dionysus]

174. IMO, leaking info on the US Govt spying on it's own people is one thing. i can get behind that.

going to a Chinese controlled territory and then Russia, leaking stuff on what we do to other countries, is the big no-no.

spying isn't cool, but every country that can afford an intelligence agency has one, and spies on friend and foe alike.

the ramifications of the latter are not clear, but I don't hold snowden in the "sweet bebe jesus" category that some folks here do.

truth is we don't know what information he had, or who he gave it to. I'd highly doubt china and Russia hasn't gotten it or tried to get it.

supposedly greenwald is sitting on all of it. who the hell knows.

[NuclearDem]

56. Yeah, and while a white Republican was in office

I was a vicious homophobe, misogynist, omnivore, Christian free-marketeer.

People change over time, and not everything everyone does has to relate to who is in the White House.

[VanillaRhapsody]

59. Oh yes and YOU know for a fact that Snowden is no longer a racist...is this your contention?

[NuclearDem]

69. I personally don't give a fuck whether Snowden is a racist or not.

Though I see no evidence he is or ever was except for the straw man you've thrown up here.

If a black gay atheist socialist had leaked the documents instead of a straight white libertarian, I would feel the same way about both the leaker and the leak.

[VanillaRhapsody]

71. Do you give a fuck what he thinks about our Social Security system and the NRA then?

SNOWDEN: save money? cut this social security bullshit

User11: hahahayes

User18: Yeah! Fuck old people!

User11: social security is bullshit

User11: let’s just toss old people out in the street

User18: Old people could move in with [User11].

User11: NOOO

User11: they smell funny

SNOWDEN: Somehow, our society managed to make it hundreds of years without social security just fine

SNOWDEN: you fucking retards

SNOWDEN: Magically the world changed after the new deal, and old people became made of glass

SNOWDEN: yeah, that makes sense

User11: wow

User11: you are just so fucking stupid

SNOWDEN: yeah, [User11]. and you’re quite a gem

User19: and magically, life expectancy has doubled in the last 100 years.funny how that works.

SNOWDEN: [User19], you don’t think modern medicine has something to do with that? no? it’s social security? wow. I guess I missed that.

User11: hurr wait a second, life expectancy has shot up in recent times along with the dissolution of the communal family unit in exchange for the nuclear family

User11: gee i guess we might need to create a safety net for the sudden glut of helpless elderly????

SNOWDEN: they wouldn’t be fucking helpless if you weren’t sending them fucking checks to sit on their ass and lay in hospitals all day

User11: you are so goddamned stupd*pid

User11: PUT OLD PEOPLE TO WORK IN THE FIELDS

SNOWDEN: my grandmother is eighty fucking three this year, and you know what? she still supports herself working as a goddamned hairdresser



“Fuck old people”? An objectivist view if ever there was one. The other issue is the Second Amendment:

User: the restrictions were made to appease the conservatives to get another bill passed. fucking cons.

SNOWDEN: See, that’s why I’m goddamned glad for the second amendment. Me and all my lunatic, gun-toting NRA compatriots would be on the steps of Congress before the C-Span feed finished.

[NuclearDem]

79. How is that relevant to the NSA leaks?

Hint: it's not.

What you're doing here is a textbook example of the poisoning the well fallacy. His views on the president or social security have absolutely nothing to do with the NSA disclosures, and you're trying to discredit him on a completely unrelated topic.

But tell me, do you like the interstate highway system?

[VanillaRhapsody]

80. HINT he is a Libertarian...

I cannot think of one Libertarian that turned out not to be racist...have you?

[NuclearDem]

82. Still haven't answered my question.

Where do you stand on the interstate highway system?

[VanillaRhapsody]

84. How do you feel about Rand Paul?

[NuclearDem]

86. Broken clock.

Now, the interstate highway system?

[VanillaRhapsody]

88. Oh thats supposed to box me in huh...cause a Republican built the Interstate Highway System?

You do understand it was built FOR the military not you or I right?

pfffffffftttttt!

[NuclearDem]

90. Not even close.

So, where do you stand on it?

[VanillaRhapsody]

91. Where do I stand on it? Normally I don't stand on it...I am normally in a car...

where is it that you are standing exactly?

[NuclearDem]

94. Alright, so you're a troll.

Just what I always thought.

If you're not willing to answer a basic question after the person you're debating with has given you the same courtesy, that makes you a troll.

[VanillaRhapsody]

97. because I ride in cars I am a troll?

so I suppose that is what you call everyone that disagrees with you that huh?

[VanillaRhapsody]

98. trying to box someone in with a stupid question...That makes YOU the troll!

by definition...

besides...just because you didn't like the answer...doesn't mean there wasn't one...just sayin'

[NuclearDem]

99. Whatever you say. Keep on trolling, VR.

[VanillaRhapsody]

100. You are the troll...as I pointed out..

you weren't asking a non pertinent question...you were asking one trying to trick me into a response...which didn't happen...that is the epitome of troll.

That makes YOU the troll not me!


So keep on Trolling yourself!

[A Simple Game]

76. Just what makes you so sure this is a black and white problem?

Why can't it be a Republican vs. Democrat bias? Everyone expects Republicans to spy and cheat, I was not surprised that Bush did it, I was surprised a Democratic Constitutional scholar didn't stop it.

Southerner vs. Northerner bias?

Maybe it just took him that long to gather the information?

So Snowden made remarks in what is one of the worlds best read newspaper that didn't make an admission to what he was or was going to do; in fact he implied just the opposite. Wow, I'm surprised.

Maybe he wanted to give President Obama time to clean up the mess and when the President didn't, then he acted.

I don't know what is the truth, and until Snowden tells us, neither do you. But do I think it is about black and white? Not likely.

[VanillaRhapsody]

78. BECAUSE he is a Social Security hating NRA supporting Libertarian...

how many of ^^^ those do you know who aren't also racists?

[cherokeeprogressive]

102. I think you need to look at a timeline. Seriously.

[VanillaRhapsody]

104. a timeline to show he is a Libertarian hack?

no I don't read my link....

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/07/06/have-we-all-been-fooled-by-edward-snowden/

[cherokeeprogressive]

107. Yeah, you need to look at a timeline. Seriously.

Then come back and once again spout off about how Snowden didn't reveal *'s spying... as IF he had the chance. Look at a timeline. Here's a little fact... a timeline isn't biased. A timeline isn't partisan. And lastly, a timeline can't distinguish a libertarian from a fascist from a racist from a butterfly. It just shows what happened and when.

Educate thyself; it keeps you from looking silly, if not dumb.

[VanillaRhapsody]

141. I don't need a timeline to tell me that a Libertarian is racist...do you?

[NuclearDem]

54. The entire world doesn't revolve around Obama.

[VanillaRhapsody]

64. and the entire world doesn't revolve around Snowden the asylum seeker!

[NuclearDem]

70. I never said it did.

The only thing I care about regarding Snowden is his freedom from malicious prosecution by the US for what he did. I personally don't care about his motives or his background. What he leaked is more important.

[VanillaRhapsody]

72. You want to see him forgiven...

its not malicious if he is in fact guilty!

He is a Social Security hating...NRA supporting Libertarian...FUCK HIM!

[Doctor_J]

106. oh, god

i suppose racism made the president pass insurance mandates, and is making him pass the TPP, and is the reason we still torture people, and the reason he didn't prosecute the banksters, and the reason he supported Blanche Lincoln...

[Marr]

163. You've officially run out of excuses. /nt

[pacalo]

3. After seeing all the Republicans' dirty politics for the last 14 years --

& there's no doubt about it that GWB escalated the underhandedness -- it's the economic spying, social control, & power over American consumers, employees, patients, etc., that concerns me most about this mass spying.

[Old Codger]

4. Not

Just Brazil....... All of it everywhere!

[12ZTR]

7. Everything's a business model.

Spying is the ultimate in insider trading. How many large & small business conversations, including illegal deals, have been listened to so the few can benefit financially?

Ask Reps & Dems in Congress if they know anything about insider trading.
Does anyone think that they aren't being robbed at every available opportunity?

George Carlin said it well:

"By the way, it's the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head with their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy. The table has tilted folks. The game is rigged and nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care! Good honest hard-working people; white collar, blue collar it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on. Good honest hard-working people continue, these are people of modest means, continue to elect these rich cock suckers who don’t give a fuck about you….they don’t give a fuck about you… they don’t give a FUCK about you."

I'm sure many are unable to understand the message or as the saying goes: "Let Them Die Dumb."

[zeemike]

10. Yep...and welcome to DU...n/t

[baldguy]

8. Why is Brazil spying on the US?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/05/world/americas/brazil-acknowledges-spying-on-diplomats-from-us.html?_r=0

[George II]

9. It's no secret that everone spys on everyone - just ask Jonathan Pollard!

For any country in this day and age to express indignation about being spied upon is hypocritical.

[baldguy]

11. And yet Snowdens fans express endless indignation because the US spies on foreign countries.

Why is that, do you think?

[mike_c]

46. no-- I'm indignant when the NSA spies on foreign CITIZENS, as well as upon...

...U.S. citizens, indiscriminately and without probable cause. It is perfectly legitimate for rival nations, or governments hostile to one another, to collect intelligence regarding industrial and military capacity, troop deployments, and policy making. But hoovering up ALL the private communications of innocent private citizens is not the same thing at all. It's Orwellian.

[baldguy]

53. But you have nothing for the US Citizens who were spied upon by Brazil.

Talk about Orwellian. How doublethink is that?

[mike_c]

136. huh? what on earth made you jump to that conclusion?

I think all such surveillance is equally threatening, regardless of who benefits or their motives.

[Maedhros]

145. Well, for one, we have no evidence that Brazil is spying on American citizens.

We only have evidence of the NSA doing so.

Also, there is absolutely no reason to believe taht Brazil has the technical capability to duplicate the NSA's spying operations, nor the influence needed to make the major wireless carriers knuckle under to their demands.

Your argument is, frankly, quite ridiculous.

[VanillaRhapsody]

66. they don't want to admit that they are anti-govt...any govt!

[pnwmom]

198. +1. n/t

[Uncle Joe]

27. I agree with Snowden.

Thanks for the thread, WillyT.

[WillyT]

37. Anytime... Uncle Joe, Anytime... Plus:

My act of conscience began with a statement: "I don't want to live in a world where everything that I say, everything I do, everyone I talk to, every expression of creativity or love or friendship is recorded. That's not something I'm willing to support, it's not something I'm willing to build, and it's not something I'm willing to live under."

Also from his letter.

[George II]

213. That's interesting - from his behavior over the last several months....

...it seems that he doesn't want "to live in a world where everything that I say, everything I do, everyone I talk to, every expression of creativity or love or friendship is NOT recorded"!

[randome]

103. I agree with him, too. He should be shot in the balls.

Actually, I don't. He was an idiot when he said that stupid thing. And he's an idiot now for leaking information that has nothing to do with what he said was his most important concern: spying on Americans.

It should be clear to anyone that his main purpose in life has become to damage the country as much as possible.

Every country spies on every country in an attempt to gain advantage, economic or otherwise.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[SidDithers]

35. Snowden is a modern day Paul Revere with a thumb drive...

... ahhh, fuck it.

Sid

[Uncle Joe]

43. Whether you mean't it or not that's almost if not the best post I've ever seen from you. n/t

[Egalitarian Thug]

48. What I find absolutely hilarious about this theatrical performance is the essential lie

that there is more to this soap opera than the elite being caught with their hand in the cookie jar and canary feathers still clinging to their faces.

Here you've had one of the most prolific "If you don't love the President, you're a racist!" posters to spend two hours writing the same non-argument 16 times. Each of them ignoring every fact surrounding this issue while trying to change the focus by screaming about people's imagined motivations, Snowden's, yours, and anybody else that doesn't agree with this week's narrative.

We created the terrorists to replace the Communists. The Sheeple must be kept distracted and scared, otherwise they might notice where they are and see where they're headed.

[WillyT]

50. Classic Thread Hi-Jacking... And...

It does NO FAVORS in the ACTUAL fight against racism.

If everybody is a racist... then nobody is a racist.

[Egalitarian Thug]

68. I wish I could believe that is an unintended consequence.

Peace to you, keep poking that bear.

[WillyT]

75. OTOH... That Poster Keeps Kicking This Thread, Giving It More And More Visibility...

So there's that.



And according to some estimates... we're gonna have two more years of bear poking.

[NuclearDem]

189. Just a resident troll doing what they do best.

I really need to learn not to feed them sometimes

[840high]

55. k/r

[jazzimov]

73. Interesting that Brazil is not considering giving him asylum.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/17/us-usa-security-snowden-brazil-idUSBRE9BG15920131217

(Reuters) - Brazil says it is not considering granting asylum to Edward Snowden even after the former U.S. National Security Agency contractor offered on Tuesday to help investigate revelations that the NSA has spied on Brazilians and their president.

[Blue_Tires]

109. it shouldn't shock anyone...

believe it or not, the Brazilian government (just like everyone else) DOES have some close secrets they don't want getting out, either...

[iamthebandfanman]

195. exactly...

nobodys hands are clean in the world...
which is why im okay with international spying...
itd be naïve to not do , imho...

its the domestic parts that bother me...

[indepat]

87. Did Snowden read all my posts about it all being all about empire and hegemony (and the power that

goes with those)?

[WillyT]

108. I Did...

But I'm sure He Had The Best View In The Building

[jwirr]

111. I honestly if we have ever gone into another nation for any other reason?

[gulliver]

112. Snowden demonizing the United States to get asylum.

I called this out a while back. Snowden doesn't know if his Russian asylum is going to last beyond its initial one year. As he gets closer and closer to the deadline, he will sell out the United States more and more to save his own ass. In this case, Snowden is trying to enrage the people of Brazil against the United States in an effort to force the hand of its leaders. I hope all Brazilians are catching a strong whiff of rodent from his general direction.

I expect this little shit to keep putting our country down to anyone who will listen right up until they drag him screaming out of Russia on his way to prison.

[WinkyDink]

113. "entire populations under an all-seeing eye": EVERY Pop star shows the Horus One-Eye. The Olympic

mascot was an odd Cyclopean entity. TPTB are FAR more sinister than most think.

http://vigilantcitizen.com/

[Blue_Tires]

115. I'd say any political or economic advantage gained

is minimal at best...But if it is strictly economic/political, then the overwhelming majority of the data must relate to China, then...I don't think they've even been mentioned so far...


Ultimately, I think the surveillance is for the sake of surveillance...If information is an alternate 'currency', then the NSA are simply obsessive-compulsive greedy hoarders...

[Cali_Democrat]

121. It's clear from the letter that Snowden desperately wants out of Russia

You can see it in his groveling. It's hilarious.

As if the US country is the only country to conduct espionage for political advantage.

What did Snowdenwald have to say about Brazilian espionage? As if that wasn't for political advantage?

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/brazil-admits-it-spied-on-u-s-diplomats

Crickets?

Thought so.

[Maedhros]

148. First you criticize him for accepting asylum in Russia,

then you criticize him for seeking an alternative.

I tell ya, the guy can't win.

[DesMoinesDem]

167. The NSA apologists here never tire of making fools of themselves, do they?

[WillyT]

172. And They Feel So... I Dunno... "Boxed In" ???

[treestar]

173. What is wrong with supporting our elected government?

Which has whistleblower laws by the way.

[WillyT]

175. Well... You've Left Me Speechless...

[treestar]

219. Why? You seem to take your own views for granted.

The NSA is supposed to be doing things no one knows about. When we found out, it wasn't anything Verizon didn't already have. For the most part, they may be doing what they are supposed to do.

You have worked yourself up into such a state you can't even consider that.

There is a whistleblower statute - name another country that even has such a thing.

[2banon]

177. Willy T!

My god Laddie look what you have gone and done now! You've gone and let the Banshee loose!

I think it's time to whip out the fiddle and the pipes, to chase it away.... far, far away...

[WillyT]

185. LOL !!!

[2banon]

193. I wanted to embed an image of a fiddler and piper chasing the banshee away

first of all I couldn't find quite the right image, but even so, I don't know how to embed images on du3 !

[pnwmom]

199. So we're supposed to be surprised and outraged

because the US, like every other country, is jockeying for power in the larger world?

I'm glad that Snowden brought to light the spying the US was doing on its own citizens.

I do not applaud him for his continued focus on US spies doing the international spying we always knew they were doing -- and that all the other major countries do, too.

[DeSwiss]

202. K&R

[DCBob]

206. Any hard evidence to support this claim?

[another_liberal]

207. We have to stop the NSA.

If we can't do so, our freedom of association and, perhaps, freedom of action soon are going to disappear.

[TBF]

208. Those are the key words in that letter and

he is 100% spot on in that letter. Snowden is a hero in my book. He's a very smart man and I imagine he knew he was taking an incredible risk doing this.

[EC]

217. So how does that differ from

every other country on earth?

[hueymahl]

222. An amazing amount of troll feeding going on in this thread - too many vanilla wafers

Hero or villain, it does not really matter. The information exposed is the story. The unconstitutional acts are the story. The quasi police state is the story. The messenger is not the story.

BTW, I personally think Snowden is a hero, not that it matters.