Elizabeth Warren Could Do DU A Big Favor If Hillary Decides To Run In 2016...

[WillyT]

And that would be to run herself, challenging Hillary Clinton.

I remember the Gender Wars of 2007 and 2008...

I doubt she will make such a determination based upon DU...

Yet...

If you think it's gotten bad now... just think of the possibilities.

[Cali_Democrat]

1. I don't think Warren cares about DU

She probably doesn't even know what DU is.

[WillyT]

26. I Kind Of Said That In My OP...

[Cali_Democrat]

41. Of course she's aware of support she has

She's been asked about it by reporters. Hell, I'm sure Hillary is also aware of support she has. Every major Dem whose name has been mentioned for 2016 has some kind of support. You're pointing out the obvious.

But in terms of DU, I'm sure if she was asked about it, she would have a puzzled look on her face.

I doubt she knows what DU is.

Oh, and what are your thoughts about Warren recently voting for the NDAA which authorizes over $600 billion for defense and over $80 billion for Afghanistan? Is that unprincipled triangulation? Or perhaps a gun was held to her head?

[Cali_Democrat]

45. I don't even want Hillary in 2016

I love how keyboard warriors over the interwebz act as if they know what another person thinks or wants.

Fucking cracks me the fuck up!

Also, you didn't answer my question. What are your thoughts on Warren voting for the massive defense budget?

Crickets?

[Cali_Democrat]

47. Like I said...crickets

[1StrongBlackMan]

2. No ...

The bigger favor EW can do DU if HRC decides to run in 2016 would be to pen a personal OP to DU announcing what she has already said ... She has no interest in running for President in 2016 ... and that, as she has also said, she supports HRC.

Maybe that would put this fake controversy to rest?

[djean111]

4. Not sure what the "controversy" is, but no matter what Warren does or pens or says,

I cannot get behind Clinton and her Third Way policies.
This is NOT a matter of wanting Warren to run, it is a matter of wanting someone who is a liberal or progressive Democrat to run. Doesn't need to be Warren.

Any "fake controversy" is casting not liking Hillary as a Warren-Hillary match. No, it is a Third Way - progressive match.

[1StrongBlackMan]

10. So when/if ...

HRC wins the Democratic nomination for the Office of President in 2016 ... Straight up and flat out, what will you do ... sit at home? vote 3rd Party?

[djean111]

12. I will not sit it out, but I will be looking to see if there is anyone at all that I can vote for

without holding my nose. This lesser evil bullshit is not working for me.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a real Democrat.

[1StrongBlackMan]

18. We make ...

"Lesser evil bullsh!t" choices everyday, in real life, on things that have a direct and immediate affect on our lives ... why is that suddenly repugnant to the point of distraction?

[djean111]

20. Oh, this is more important than my everyday choices. To me. BIG time.

Please don't trivialize this.
Come to think of it, what the heck would a Hillary platform be? What would she run on? Third Way stuff, said out loud on TV isn't gonna win votes. The TPP? Don't think that is a good thing either.
Then, there is the well, she said it, but she had to say it because Hey! Winning!
As a woman, I don't care diddly squat about her gender, and Big Dog is charming and all that, but he is a fellow Third Way corporatist.

I do promise to drop out of DU if I cannot force myself to vote for Republican Lite, though. Because if Third Way is Democratic, then I guess I am not. Looks like, perhaps, the next big party shake up - or shake out - will be in the Democratic party, and that is the fault of the Third Way.

[1StrongBlackMan]

29. I'm not trivilizing anything ...

I'm just stating the reality that in real life, we routinely choose among the less than desirable options available. And part of that deliberative process is/should be determining what the most harmful, least desirable result would be and considering the likelihood that our decided upon option will increase that negative result.

[djean111]

37. In my real life, I can usually choose "neither" when a choice seems to be lesser evil

oriented. Not a lot of big lesser evil stuff going on, really. And for most of my choices - I have more than two things to pick from.

Also, most of my choices do not affect me (or the whole country, or the whole world) in profound ways for the next four years.
That is what I meant by trivializing this.

Even biggie things like insurance companies can be revisited once a year. Maybe my life is simpler than yours. Generally, if I don't like any of my choices, I try and step back and not make a choice, if possible, until I feel good about it.

[WillyT]

15. But That's The Question, 1StrongBlackMan...

And there is a BIG DIFFERENCE between "if" and "when"...

The "when" is a foregone conclusion...

The "if" is if somebody from the left challenges the foregone conclusion... and wins.

We saw it happen in 2008.

[fadedrose]

23. What is Hillary's platform

What's her view on War in the Middle East, how great is her friendship with Netanyahu?, the pipeline, TPPA, Wall Steet Investment Corps, Banking regulations, Perks to Business-environment & taxes & unions, Social Security, Medicare, Food Stamps, Welfare, Education; who is providing her support or are they taking it out of that fund that She, Bill and Chelsea running? Besides that fund, who else supports her...I'd like to know who she has in mind for the Cabinet too.

All I know about her is that she flew a lot, and a week after Joe Biden voiced his support for Gays, she made her speech supporting Gays, after wetting her thumb and holding it up to see where the wind was coming from.

[1StrongBlackMan]

34. I have no idea ...

and BTW, I'm not a big HRC fan and have not declared her the best Democratic candidate, let alone the best president, ever.

[GoneFishin]

22. I like Elizabeth Warren, but I can think for myself. I will not vote for another corporatist

even if they are endorsed by someone I like.

[NoOneMan]

13. I don't think that giving a frontrunner a free pass is a favor to anyone

The Democratic Party should want an engaging primary about relevant issues

[1StrongBlackMan]

19. The OP was offering ...

advice to a person that has said that she has no interest in running for president in 2916 AND has signed on in support of HRC. Those seeking to draft EW can hope, wish and dream; but that is her decision ... that she has already made.

Now ... I have no problem with anyone engaging in a primary; but that person has to be interested.

[NoOneMan]

21. First, show me where she signed on to support HRC

A link to the letter directly please if you have one, presuming one exists.

Secondly, 2916 is a long way off. Its tough to think that far ahead

Thirdly, if people weren't asking Obama to run over and over again as an expression of interest while he spent years denying he would, he may never have run.

Fourth, please understand that people need to have hope--even if its a fantasy--when confronted with a reality that someone they disdain so much may win the nomination. Have some empathy.

[1StrongBlackMan]

32. While, I do not have access to the letter ...

it's existence was reported here: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/10/in-secret-letter-senate-democratic-women-rally-behind-hillary-clinton/

And since none of the signators, including EW has denied it ...

Secondly, 2916 is a long way off. Its tough to think that far ahead

Apparently not ... though I would agree that 2014 is/should be more of a priority.

Thirdly, if people weren't asking Obama to run over and over again as an expression of interest while he spent years denying he would, he may never have run.

I wasn't aware there was a draft effort for Senator Obama.

Fourth, please understand that people need to have hope--even if its a fantasy--when confronted with a reality that someone they disdain so much may win the nomination. Have some empathy.

I, honestly, hadn't thought of that.

[NoOneMan]

35. A report about a person claiming there is a letter that says something...

...but we aren't even sure what it said or what the intent of the signers were, provided it even exists or exists as described.

I wasn't aware there was a draft effort for Senator Obama.

There are a variety (more than 1) MTP issues where Obama was directly asked if he was going to run, due to excitement from grassroots. On multiple occasions that spanned a few years, he denied he was going to run. Look it up. Its a fact. There are transcripts and quotes from as far back as 2004 that I am aware of

[1StrongBlackMan]

38. Did you read the linked article? ...

The existence of the letter was not revealed publicly until this week, when Sen. Kay Hagan, D-N.C., mentioned it at an event in New York City on Monday. That was an apparent slip-up that prompted a round of apologetic e-mails from her Senate office to other offices on Capitol Hill, according to the aides.

“All of the Senate Democratic women have written her a letter encouraging her to run,” Hagan told a gathering organized by EMILY’s List, according to Capital New York. The event was part of the group’s “Madam President” series, which is organizing events around the country to promote interest in a female Democratic presidential candidate.

That seems about as well sourced as any "secret letter" can be, absent producing the actual letter.

But I guess we must keep hope alive.

Regarding the draft Senator Obama movement, you are correct.

[NoOneMan]

40. Yep

Its a report about someone claiming that an alleged letter exists and it says something, according to a single source. Funny enough, even that has been twisted into a whole lotta things, such as a formal political endorsement. As of now, its really just a rumor

[1StrongBlackMan]

43. Okay ...

It's funny what we choose to accept as fact and what we dismiss as rumor. Huh?

[fadedrose]

27. No one is owed the Presidency

no matter how many times they ran.

There are several candidates in both parties who ran election after election and nobody thought that their running entitled them to anything but a little sympathy.

[YOHABLO]

3. It's just going to be blah blah blah about HRC.. let's worry about 2014 right now.

[MannyGoldstein]

5. She's not running!!!

I really, really, really need you to know that!

Some guy said someone told him that he saw a letter that Warren signed. Also, Warren said she's not running. Hillary said that she's not running either, but everyone knows that's different.

[hrmjustin]

7. Where did Hillary say she is not running.

[MannyGoldstein]

30. E.g.,

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/18/hillary-clinton-repeats-no-2016-cant-stand-whinin-about-life-choices/

Several other times also. But don't get any ideas, buster: *her* denials don't count.

[joshcryer]

54. That's a SoS quote. She said she'd decide in 2014.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/12/19/clinton-says-shell-decide-about-2016-next-year/

[djean111]

8. In addition, Warren is younger than Hillary, but is too old to run.

Basically, the BIG Wall Street money is behind Hillary. And goodness knows that money is the boss of the DNC.

[MannyGoldstein]

31. And unlike Hillary, Warren never fought and won any tough political battles

Just don't fact check, that, OK?

[djean111]

33. Bwah!

Anyway, what is fascinating to me is that the Hillary fans are trying to set this whole thing up as only being about Warren, and then thinking that by shooting Warren down or saying well, Warren supports Hillary, or whatever, they have defused the discontent and everyone will fall in line behind Hillary. Nope.

It is Warren's ideas that count. Hillary's platform, or whatever, is Third Way Corporatist, judging by what she publicly supports so far - like the TPP. THAT is what is not palatable. This is not just a Warren - Hillary thing at all.
Bear in mind I was a fervent Hillary supporter; it was not until after obama was elected (yes, I voted for him but voted for Hillary in the primary) that I began to really see what corporatism and Third Way really meant. Saw Bill in a bit of a different light, too.

That sort of begs another question - why the hell is Hillary being pushed so damned hard when we have no idea what she stands for? All I can think of right now is TPP stuff, and that ain't good.

[MannyGoldstein]

49. Hillary's time has passed.

I think that many Democrats (and others) have woken up over the past few years and realized that we're getting #%^*ed by Republicans and Third Wayers. Liberals will now retake our party.

The big battle is against the Tea Party crazies. Those people are irrational and well funded, a bad combination.

[rhett o rick]

65. No one is "running" until they are "running". In other words, I am not running means today I

am not running. But ask again tomorrow.

[hrmjustin]

6. While I support Hillary I would welcome a Warren run as good for the party.

She will not run however.

[WillyT]

9. Question: How Many Politicians, Over Your Lifetime, Said They Will Not Run For President...

Only To Do So, Despite Those Words?

I've seen many...

Chris Christie being the most current example.

[hrmjustin]

14. Good point.

[Whisp]

25. It's not too early to say Maybe or No or We'll See

But it IS too early to say YES!

And we should all understand that.

Some say Warren isn't running, she may have said that herself but that means Nothing to me at this point in time. People change their minds, people know when it's too early to declare and have the jackals after you for longer than need to be.

[joshcryer]

58. How many who PLEDGED to serve their term went back on it?

Warren pledged she would serve her term. That's unequivocal. No take backsies.

[WillyT]

59. Well... I Guess If They Pinky-Sweared, I'd Get Your Point...

[joshcryer]

60. Her exact words were, "I pledge to serve out my term."

But sure she can go back on her word.

It would be political suicide though.

[WillyT]

61. OK... So... We've Seen That Particular Reversal Many Times... And I For One ...

Would not hold it against her one wit.

I fact... I'd encourage it.

[joshcryer]

63. Well I hope you're right.

Clinton will need a robust challenge from the left.

I've never heard of someone pledging to serve out their term and then flipping on it.

[NoOneMan]

28. I'm glad to see this attitude around here

[joshcryer]

55. While I support Warren I would welcome a Clinton run as good for the party.

Clinton will run, though. Warren, not so much.

[NoOneMan]

11. She would do the country a big favor by running

Win or lose, she can bring important issues to the forefront from a credible, fresh position

[Aerows]

16. Agreed

She and Sanders both should run, and inject both some humanity and accountability into the debate.

[WillyT]

17. + 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!!

[GoneFishin]

24. +1. Agreed.

[hay rick]

42. Excellent point.

To solve a problem, you first have to recognize it. Politicians who profess to be strong on defense or resolute in "the war on terror" are incapable of dealing with the real problem of obscene levels of defense spending. The more our politicians agree to the importance of doing something about the deficit, the less likely they are to protect our safety net. Politicians who support "removing trade barriers" tacitly accept the premise that American workers should compete with wage levels prevalent in third world economies. Politicians that are fighting to keep the ACA intact have mostly resigned themselves to a best-case scenario in which Americans continue to pay close to twice the international norm for health care and tens of millions still have no insurance coverage.

The argument between "centrist" Democrats and Republicans is about how to manage a declining standard of living for the majority of Americans. We need politicians who seek to reverse that decline, not manage it.

[joshcryer]

56. Indeed, an unchallenged HRC run would be a disaster.

[Agnosticsherbet]

51. It has been reported that Elizabeth Warren actually wants Hillary to run and approves of her.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/30/hillary-clinton-secret-letter_n_4178317.html

I wonder what she sees in Hillary Clinton that others don't.

[djean111]

52. What Warren does in the way of endorsements doesn't really interest me.

It is the ideas that she brings to the table that I am for.
This is not really about Warren specifically, I believe, it is about how the Third Way and corporatism have moved the Democratic Party so far to the right.

[Agnosticsherbet]

53. I am curious about how she sees Hillary Clinton in light of Third Way and Corporatism.

I like Warren's politics and the stands she's made. I tend to think that she must see that Hillary is not inherently opposed to the ideas Warren promotes.

[djean111]

57. I get your drift, but so far I have no reason to think that Hillary is anything but Third Way.

And I have learned that campaign rhetoric is just hot air. All I know of Hillary's politics at this point is the TPP, and the people who give her the big bucks. I see nothing liberal at all.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

62. Or, run as Bernie Sanders VP.

[Beacool]

64. The mood wouldn't be more acrimonious than it already is.

[NBachers]

66. "Double, double, toil and trouble; cauldron burn and cauldron bubble"