Any DUers around during Watergate?

[Dawgs]

Last edited Thu Jan 9, 2014, 06:28 PM - Edit history (2)

Others have been pointing out similarities with bridgegate.

Like, Wildstein taking the fifth. Or, Christie's presser.

Just curious if it seems similar, yet?

[shraby]

1. They lied and took the fifth and couldn't find Rosemary's tape.

John Dean was lying until someone told him he would get 5 years for every lie and that's when he decided to spill the beans.

[B Calm]

2. Watergate was nothing compared to this! People died because of what Christie did.

[pnwmom]

89. The timing was similar. We knew about the break-in months before

the election, but the media played it down then and he got re-elected.

[AgingAmerican]

3. At least with Watergate

...they tried to hide what happened. This bridge thing was stupidly done right in everyone's face.

They should call this 'Bullygate'.

[2naSalit]

10. I'll buy that

besides, this isn't presidential election stuff yet. The fact that this was not just messing with one community in NJ but impeding interstate travel and probably international freight/trade and a host of other problems was waaay stupid on the part of the perps. This whole thing carries the Christie stench. And when's the last time anyone uttered the term "appearance of impropriety" - which is grounds for all kinds of inquiry in itself?

I'm thinking that somebody's gonna roll on this and Christie will be falling off his pedestal soon enough. I'm hoping he'll soon resemble a used tissue and blow away in the wind. I don't put any of this past him and it sounds like him from the very start.

Folks voted for him but this could be the tip of the iceberg of what nasty deeds he's been a part or taskmaster of with regard to all that money for Sandy relief that never got to the people it was intended etc...

Redacted stuff has a way of becoming unredacted, lest we forget the NSA for instance, and if not the NSA there are a host of digital forensic specialists who will be called upon at taxpayer expense.

[Brigid]

66. During Watergate,

the hearings were pretty boring, as I recall -- then one sleepy afternoon, Alexander Butterfield let slip that there was a taping system in the Oval Office. Who knows what might come out?

[pacalo]

67. Nixon wasn't in-your-face belligerent to the public like Christie is, but Nixon preserved his

arrogance & bullying nature on his infamous taped conversations. Both used their positions to settle their petty grievances.

[PM Martin]

4. There was a death involved with this scandal.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024305308

[Katashi_itto]

85. But no deaths in Watergate, right?

[Glitterati]

5. YES! Starting with "I am not a bully."

Definitely the same tenor, the same playbook,

But, the I am not a bully was like deja vu.

[Sheepshank]

48. Not a bully? Clearly he forgets there were videos of his town hall bullying...what an asswipe

[Glitterati]

71. Oh yeah, my jaw hit the floor when he said that

It was simply unbelievable.

But the resemblance to the Nixonian "I'm not a crook" was striking.

[pacalo]

72. I love the irony of how he's now trying to backtrack on his bullying nature.

His nasty political party stoked his ego to egg him on, to the point Christie had one of his staff members accompany him to public appearances with a video camera to catch anything snarky Christie might say to feed into that persona.

I have no doubt that this bridge scandal began in Christie's office. I believe at the time he thought it would be a "cute" thing to do in the eyes of his following.

[livetohike]

6. It seemed like the hearings went on forever and there were many people testifying.

The media was obsessed with John Dean's wife. Everything seems so hazy now .

[Art_from_Ark]

79. I thought that was John Mitchell's wife they were obsessed with

Martha Mitchell

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Beall_Mitchell

[livetohike]

81. I forgot about Martha Mitchell! Maybe they were obsessed with all of the wives.

I know there was a lot of fuss over Maureen Dean.

[Art_from_Ark]

83. I don't remember Maureen Dean at all

but it seemed like Martha (and her famous telephone) were on the TV news every night.

[IllinoisBirdWatcher]

7. Yes, I am that old...

and there are many similarities.

Although Christie comes off better to cameras (anyone would), he so reminded me of Richard Nixon this morning.

As others have pointed out often, he is either lying with every word, or he is totally incompetent in not knowing what his senior officials were (and are) doing.

Yes, no one expects him or any other governor to know what 65,000 employees are doing on a daily basis.

But to claim he did not know what a handful of most-trusted senior staff (both in his official office and on the part of his campaign manager) were doing on a daily basis is like trying to convince us that the sun rose in the west this morning.

For those of you who don't follow all of the governors, this fiasco is also a mirror image of the John Doe investigations of Wisconsin TeaPublican Scott Walker who claims to have no clue that his senior staff had set up and run a secret non-official intranet a few feet from his desk.

[malaise]

24. Seriously he was Nixonian

It was uncanny

[IllinoisBirdWatcher]

47. Yes. I really thoought so, too.

My first thought, even though it wasn't a going away speech, was "You won't have Richard Nixon to kick around anymore." That speech (well before Watergate) was the trigger for me.

So Nixon reinvented himself from that one and went on to bigger things, only to fall further and harder in the end.

This is obviously not the end.

[Jackpine Radical]

52. I picked up on that Walker parallel too.

And I most certainly remember Watergate. I remember, once the dam broke how everyone in m circle was following Ol' Sam's Committee hearings blow-by-blow. I used to go down to the student Union & watch it all unroll.

[IllinoisBirdWatcher]

57. Thanks. Yes, please, TeaPublicans, elevate Walker to the top of your list.

Christie cannot survive national scrutiny. For months Rachel Maddow was covering Christie's Bridgegazzi but few others were paying attention.

The Wisconsin Walktater is as bad or worse. Ed Schultz led the coverage of the mess in Wisconsin, but again few at the national level paid attention. I was happily shocked to hear traditional media talking heads promoting Walker as the next "non-teaparty" TeaPublican in line for national anointment. He also cannot survive national scrutiny. He is simply a skinny smirking version of Christie.

[upaloopa]

8. Way too little time has passed in bridge gate.

Watergate was a long time happening.
Not enough lies told here yet.
"What webs we weave when we set to deceive."

[WillyT]

9. Yep...

[Common Sense Party]

51. That's Fred Thompson in the top photo, at the left...correct? nt

[WillyT]

55. I Believe So...

[Common Sense Party]

58. Looks like him (with hair), and I know he was some lawyer during all of that.

Before he helped Alec Baldwin chase Soviet subs.

[pinboy3niner]

11. Waiting for Christie's Deep Throat... nt

[FiveGoodMen]

50. Ewwww

[adirondacker]

64. Deep Goat!

[kairos12]

12. I watched the Watergate hearings and for me...

the question posed is there a Deep Throat who will spill the beans on the Bully-In-Chief.

[calimary]

17. Might be his own Bridget Anne Kelly?

What does she have to lose now? Except a harsher sentence?

[livetohike]

40. Her lawyers will ask for immunity in exchange for her testimony

Can't wait. I am retired, I have plenty of time to watch this one.

[Nay]

60. Oh, I agree. Christie threw her under the bus, and she must be pretty

damn angry. She has to decide whether she wants to stay in the Republican Club and possibly climb the career ladder there, or dish on a boss who is a real asshole. It will all depend on what federal charges are pending. She'll sing like a canary if she sees she needs immunity.

And if she's like me, she's got plenty of notes about what goes on in the office, just in case.....

[Brigid]

65. Oh, I'm sure she does.

[BobUp]

75. she's got plenty of notes

which may not mean much, Christie might just claim she's disgruntled, she'll say he gave his approval, it might go back and forth, he said, she said. What matters is emails or documents with dates & times, of communications between the two. That would be proof of co conspiracy.

I'm sort of surprised only one head rolled, aren't we?

e.g., I'm sittin' in my office, and I tell another person, well, it's time to shut it down, via phone/email/text, the person I sent this to communicates back okay, will do, that's two people, one who gave the directive, and the other who carried it out. yes? This isn't just a case of people just following orders IMO.

Also, stopping or impeding traffic on a interstate highway, for no valid reason, which caused death? Um, federal indictment/s possible? More heads rolling?

And while all this went down, Crispy didn't know anything, hard to believe, ain't it?

[calimary]

13. Here! What I'm enjoying is the references to Watergate and nixon that have come up

in all kinds of commentary and reportage about this. GOOD GOOD GOOD!!!! All the better to manage the perception out there! Get a lot of that nixon/Watergate stink on christie and it'll be enough to push enough voters away from him. Especially the older ones who can always be counted on to vote. 'Cause we DO remember.

And every little extra just adds to it. A nice terse soundbite like "I am not a bully" takes you directly to "I am not a crook" (as we've already seen displayed rather artistically by our own EarlG - hey, if you're thinking it, you better believe a lot of other people are thinking it, too) to "I am not a witch" and onward. It just riffs off a whole lotta negatives we've seen and lived through and laughed at in politics.

Just add to the stink. It's all we need to finish this guy off. He may make it to the primaries but then he's just a nice big turkey for his GOP opponents to start carving up.

[jwirr]

14. I was there. The similarities I see is in Christie and Nixon is their personalities. Both are the

type that keep and enemies list, do not care how they get what they want and whine about it when they get caught.

[RebelOne]

36. Agreed. I was there too. n/t

[dembotoz]

15. waiting for an enemies list and things done to them

[MineralMan]

16. No, not similar.

One was a stupid decision to throttle down a bridge. The other was official dirty tricks done by a President's men to mess with an election. They are not even close to being similar.

And Wildstein didn't refuse to take the fifth. He took the fifth and refused to testify. There is a real difference there, too.

The New Jersey thing is a petty prank done to get back at a mayor, mostly.

[Dawgs]

21. No need to be a dick. "Refuse" was a simple mistake.

And, not a stupid decision to throttle down a bridge, but an intentional, vindictive act that affected many people's lives in an extremely malicious way.

You should be embarrassed for not recognizing that it was something much more than a "petty prank".

[MineralMan]

22. Just correcting your misstatement.

Christie is an overgrown frat boy. He saw this as a prank. Others saw it differently. Christie's a moron, like most frat boys.

[Dawgs]

25. Yeah, but he's still a sitting governor.

And, at least for me, it's fun to watch him go down.

[reddread]

35. take your own advice

its disgusting to conflate one of the most significant RESOLVED political scandals of the late 20th century with this
opportunistic exploitation of a tragic consequence. And that is what it is, opportunistic exploitation, NOT the pursuit of
justice.
There may well have been deaths in the aftermath of Watergate. An entire plane crash may well have been tied in.
Grow up.

[reddread]

42. the only dumb ass here

is your rude self.

[OregonBlue]

33. I generally agree but I'm thinking there may be more to this than just a prank to get back at a

mayor who didn't endorse him. That would be overkill and incredibly stupid. From what I've read, his staff was not stupid. So, I'm guessing there is a lot more to come out on this and it may become Watergate. Remember, that began as a simple break-in which people thought was very stupid but had no idea how serious it was until later.

[TeamPooka]

18. Watergate was a much bigger scandalthat involved not only a cover up and obstruction but

money laundering, breaking & entering and wiretapping.
Watergate is the reason the GOP is batshit crazy to this day.
They were responsible for the biggest scandal in US history and their President resigned from office!
They broke the government and made people not trust it anymore and then they hopped on the bandwagon their own actions built.

[HappyMe]

43. I agree.

Watergate was a huge scandal. This bridgegate is small potatoes compared to that.

[ProfessorGAC]

70. One Thing You Forgot

I agree with your sentiment, but you neglected to mention that they used the full power of the U.S. gov't law enforcement apparatus to badger and intimidate in the interest of retaining cover.

I've always thought that abuse of power was the worst part of WG.

[TeamPooka]

93. I'd be here all day if I was to list every crime Nixon and his cronies committed. :)

But thank you
that is one of the worst aspects of his crimes.
and why former Attorney General Elliot L. Richardson is a huge American hero

[eShirl]

19. Not yet; there have been no hearings to pre-empt afterschool sitcom re-runs.

God I hated that.

[grasswire]

20. the scale of this offense pales compared to Watergate

Watergate was corruption and criminality at the highest level of government.

Bridge fuss is a local act of political retribution with no national implications.

[Dawgs]

26. Thanks. I was very young when WG went down, so I wasn't aware of the importance.

[ananda]

23. Yes, I was glued to the tv the whole time.

I just so admired Senator Sam Irvin and Rep Barbara Jordan.

Jordan had so much gravitas and statesmanship. We just
don't see that today.

[Hekate]

27. It does have that certain something. I keep expecting Christie to say...

... "I am not a bully" while looking straight into the camera. Loyal staffers falling on their swords, people fired, all that.

And above all -- such petty mean-spiritedness.

[edhopper]

28. Yes

it was obvious from the beginning that Nixon was involved, just like it is obvious that this did not occur without Christie's approval.
This is unraveling quicker, and unlike the 18 minutes of tape, you can't get rid of emails and texts. Hope a nice juicy one comes up soon.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

29. Not really. Only in the sense that both politicians found themselves in a lot of trouble.

When Nixon resigned me, and my coworkers, literally danced in the aisles and cheered. If Christie resigns or is indicted, I'll probably shrug and murmur "good".

[SheilaT]

30. I remember Watergate quite well.

I was living in the DC area at the time and this is NOTHING like Watergate. Nothing. Not at all.

Even the death involved here does not make this rise to a Watergate level. For one thing, the break-in at the Watergate was just one of the many illegal things the Nixonians did to make sure he'd be re-elected in 1972. Then there was the coverup, the payoffs. In December, 1972 a United Airlines 737 crashed short of the runway at Midway airport in Chicago. Among the dead was Mrs. E. Howard Hunt, who was carrying $10,000 in $100 dollar bills, probably some of the money being used to pay off various people.

More to the point, the entire Watergate thing played out over more than two years before Nixon finally resigned. While it would be nice if this would cause Christie to resign, that still wouldn't make this very much like Watergate.

This Bridge thing is simply the sort of petty bullshit that occurs especially at this level of government: harassing and inconveniencing those who are the political enemies.

[Dawgs]

37. I hear ya, but I still think this is a much bigger deal than "petty bullshit".

I expect the fallout to continue for weeks.

[SheilaT]

44. I suppose whether or not the bridge thing

is "petty bullshit" depends on exactly how one defines that term. Why I'm calling it that is the bridge lane shut downs because the mayor decided not to endorse Christie is the sort of stupid, petty thing that a bully does. Of course, this particular "pettiness" wound up involving many thousands of people, so I may be wrong to use that word.

Unfortunately, given that our press is the original Short Attention Span Theater, this fallout may only last until the next bit of celebrity nonsense, or reality show scandal.

What I would wish is that those who decided to close those lanes would be fully called out. Whoever they are. All of them.

[OregonBlue]

38. I'm not sure we know that yet. Just seems to me like that was an excuse they made up that sounded

plausible but I personally think there is more to this. Why would they do something so obvious? Something that could come back to bite them so easily? Not buying it myself. I think it's one of those "look over here" attempts at misdirection. Guess time will tell but I just have a hunch there is a lot more coming.

[Kingofalldems]

31. I was listening to WTOP radio when the burglary was first reported

I knew from the first moment Nixon was involved.

[SidDithers]

32. It's not watergate. It's watergate-gate...

Sid

[etherealtruth]

34. Similar in "politicians doing corrupt/ immoral/ illegal things"

No comparison in the magnitude (Watergate exponentially "worse&quot ... This is what I remember as a ten year old.

[Dawgs]

41. I agree. I was wondering more about the similarities in how it's playing out.

I wasn't comparing the magnitude.

Thanks for not assuming I did.

[etherealtruth]

45. Its gonna take someone older than me for a firsthad recollection

I would have to assume that "everything" re Watergate didn't come out all at once ... we will have to watch how this unfolds (or I hope unravels for Christy)

[brooklynite]

46. Three really big differences...

1) Nixon interfering in the investigation by firing the Special Prosecutor

2) the smoking gun taped evidence

3) Dean being willing to spill the beans

Assuming they don't pop up, arguably Christie can get away with claiming he didn't know about the plan.

[Gothmog]

49. Watergate break in led to other facts-so far this is an isolated incident

I was in High School but my debate coach was also the civics teacher and so I followed this scandal with a great deal of interests. So far this scandal is a little similar. It would help if there are links to other clear acts of retributions. I was disappointed that the press did not ask about the other incidents of Christie being a bully. The NYT had a good article about these incidents a while back http://www.democraticunderground.com/1066353

[H2O Man]

53. In ways, yes.

It is getting interesting.

[Warpy]

54. Crooked politicians with gangster mentalities are all the same

and they all stonewall and try to shift blame.

Nixon was a little different in that he was so grandiose and paranoid. The worst of his paranoia has now been set into stone and we're all facing militarized local police departments.

If we are at all lucky, Christie's gangsterism will end with him.

[closeupready]

56. Yes, it seems quite similar - the stakes are not as high, but

there are too many similarities to not notice the pattern.

[Lochloosa]

59. This is child's play compared to Watergate.

I watched the hearings in fascination. At 14 years of age.

[beachbum bob]

61. abuse of power

Is the unifying link. I watched the hearings in fascination and helped transform my political leanings from pretty conservative GOP to liberal democrat. Power is a corrupting force.

[sadoldgirl]

62. Yes,I was and it is different

Nixon was paranoid and smart. As far as I remember the 5th was not allowed during Congressional hearings at that time. However, they allowed it with Oliver North, which changed the power to question forever.
Nixon was President , not a governor. Christie may have hoped to become one, but never showed enough shrewdness and self control. It is quite different to have the US Congress in a bipartisan way questioning a President about serious crimes. Remember also that way later he said in an interview about illegal actions: if the President does it, it is okay. I doubt that Christie would ever dare to say that about a governor's office. However, I believe that we will hear about this for a long time still.
If, only if this eliminates Christie as a candidate, I wonder whether Jebbie will slowly step in.

[Brigid]

63. I was in high school.

I remember one minute hearing about a two-bit burglary and the next " I am not a crook." And a whole summer of hearings.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

68. No. I was nowhere near the Watergate that night.

I didn't do it. I have an alibi.

No, Christie/Wildstein was a sophomoric stunt. Watergate was criminal espionage designed to subvert the democratic process.

I think Christie has reached his level of incompetence.

[AngryAmish]

69. Watergate sucked.

They preempted cartoons in my area. Nothing but boring adults talking all day long.

[Jenoch]

73. I remember the endless Watergate hearings.

They were on live all day and then every network repeated them at night. There were no cable news networks back then. I was about 11 years old and was upset that the regular programming was pre-empted. When I was 15 my family and I got to go to a banquet that was held in the Watergate hearing room. We got our photos taken with Hubert Humphrey, Walter Mondale, Warren Burger, Harry Blackmun, and all of the U.S. Senate and U.S. House members from Minnesota. I was not all that impressed at the time, but as an adult looking back, it was pretty cool.

It was not a 'thing' back then, but I have a picture of my mother photo bombing Vice-president Mondale.

[CFLDem]

74. What's Watergate?

[notadmblnd]

76. well, I think that the "I am not a bully" statement was reminicent of Nixon's "I am not a crook."

statement.

[Purveyor]

77. Why change 'Dicks' in the middle of a screw, vote for Nixon in '72! Yep, I was around... ;) eom

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

78. I remember it well - I was glued to the TV hearings.

It was a much, much bigger deal than this, but there are a few little similarities, such as:

*Nixon said "I am not a crook" but of course he was. Christie said "I am not a bully."...
*Nixon tried to pretend he didn't know a thing about it, and blamed aides, who took the fall - at first.

Otherwise, this thing is totally bush league compared to Watergate, but it does give us more information about what a Christie administration could be like.

[Smarmie Doofus]

80. 1.YES. 2. YES. "Dirty Tricks": Given the threat to life and limb....

... of the initial overt act, this is off to a much more vicious, dangerous start.

And, truth is... it appears we are dealing here w. much more vicious, dangerous people.

[Cofitachequi]

82. No similarities whatsoever- the suggestion only demeans the historic importance of watergate.

Checkers the dog, however......

[gopiscrap]

91. welcome to DU

[Cofitachequi]

92. After seeing Rachel Maddow's coverage this evening-

I may have to rescind this comment. Seems this could be bigger then a feud with a mayor over a campaign....

(Great my first post is a blunder!)

[spin]

84. Yes. However I am more concerned with how a President like Richard Nixon ...

could misuse the mega-data collection on all of our citizens by the NSA than dirty political tactics used by a Governor.

Would Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein have ever been able to get Deep Throat to rat out Nixon if "Tricky Dick" would have access to the date the NSA is gathering? Nixon would have able to quickly find out who Deep Throat was and silence him.

There is a slight possibility that Christie might run for President and win. If he is indeed as big a bully as the bridge scandal suggests, imagine what he could to damage any and all of his opponents if he had access to NSA data.

Power corrupts and unlimited access to data on all citizens could turn a dirty politician into a dictator.

[trof]

86. Yes I was. Not even close.

What Nixon and his plumbers did was far far worse.

[Coyotl]

87. We've reached a real turning point in history, where all scandals end in ghazi instead of gate.

So, this is now #Bridghazi

[Jim Lane]

94. I agree with the DUers who want to stick with -gate

Benghazi is a bad choice for comparison because there's no actual scandal. Using the -ghazi suffix gives far too much credence to the right-wing talking points.

Watergate resulted in multiple felony indictments and convictions, former high-ranking officials doing prison time, a crucial (and unanimous) Supreme Court decision, and a President resigning (after several members of his own party, on the House Judiciary Committee, had voted in favor of impeaching him). When Benghazi involves anything comparable, get back to me.

[TheDebbieDee]

88. I could not understand what the big deal was!

I was eleven at the time. I remember saying to my cousin that it wasn't like Nixon had somebody killed or something!

[Liberal_in_LA]

90. not similar, bridgegate seems worse to me - hurting the avg citizen to

get back at a politician.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

95. Watergate was about subverting the electoral process

Much more serious.

[antiquie]

96. Just consideration of comparison makes me ill

and cry for the lack of historical political education of our citizenry.