Staff Sgt. Robert Bales. Afghan shooter.

[cherokeeprogressive]

[ellisonz]

1. Source?

[lpbk2713]

2. They had a piece about him on the NBC Evening News.

He was in the Army for eleven years based most of the time in Washington state. He grew up in Ohio and his wife is a "senior executive" with a large Seattle based company. She is now staying on base for her protection ... this info all from NBC News.

[ellisonz]

3. Ahh...

1 hr ago: http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/16/10722498-nbc-news-us-soldier-suspected-in-afghanistan-massacre-identified

The photo is from a California training facility - My guess is Fort Irwin - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Irwin,_California

[EFerrari]

4. I don't see how we can leave our service people in a no win situation

Last edited Fri Mar 16, 2012, 08:19 PM - Edit history (1)

at risk of life and limb for a decade, for three, four and more deployments, at risk of being f#cked by the Pentagon when they need help and not expect something like this to happen.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

5. They are expendable cannon-fodder for the ambitions of politicians.

[EFerrari]

8. Yes. And instead of demonizing this one guy

we should be asking about all the guys that didn't get a headline.

We should be asking, why the f are wounded soldiers being redeployed.

We should be asking, why does our party need bullshit about the fake war in Afghanistan to win?

We should be asking, what the fuck is this all for? We can't shoot the Taliban gone. We all know that won't work. So, wtf is this for?

[SammyWinstonJack]

15. Think Obama would take those questions? Wonder how he sleeps at night.

Dear Mr. President.

[UTUSN]

36. Uh, exactly where does (President) OBAMA factor into this particular incident?!1 n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

56. Seriously?

Safe to say this particular incident would not have happened if the military were not still in Afghanistan.

Who is keeping them there?

Who escalated the war on Afghanistan?

Who is the CinC?

Nevermind.

[fascisthunter]

61. Jesus Fucking Christ!!!!!

are ya kidding us?

[USArmyParatrooper]

70. I'm not.

The notion that the Commander in Chief is personally responsible for every act every trooper takes is absurd. If we weren't in Afghanistan and this same soldier murdered his wife and kids, would Obama be responsible because he didn't deploy him overseas?

[Canuckistanian]

80. Nobody suggested that

But post #8 is what we're talking about here. And I'm sure you agree with it.

[Canuckistanian]

78. Read post #8 VERY CAREFULLY

And I think you'll get it.

[USArmyParatrooper]

91. It's nonsense.

"we should be asking about all the guys that didn't get a headline."

Like who?

"We should be asking, why the f are wounded soldiers being redeployed."

Too general of a question. If someone sustains a wound and it heals, they're deployable again. If there's an existing injury which precludes them from deploying, they should be given a medical status to reflect that. Nobody here knows which applies in this case.

The other two questions in post 8 aren't related to this incident.

[EFerrari]

97. Nope. Myopia may be a favorite position of yours

but don't expect everyone to reduce their scope to accommodate your extremely narrow one.

[USArmyParatrooper]

98. Don't worry.

Nobody is going to notice that your post was completely void of even an attempt at substance.

[piratefish08]

7. in the boardroom of WAR Inc., this is just a cost of doing business.

[EFerrari]

9. Yeah, so why do we jump all over this guy

and not all over boardrooms?

This guy didn't want to be there, he shouldn't have been there and the Pentagram knew that and didn't care.

Who is the criminal here, exactly?

[kenny blankenship]

11. Hey, relax! It's just through the 2012 election cycle...

They can grin and bear it through a couple more tours for the sake of History, can't they?

[EFerrari]

13. The campaigns can. We'll be dealing with these damaged people

for a generation, at least.

But, hey, why let the general welfare interfere with the campaign?

[Logical]

12. They enlisted and knew the rules. Also, many people hate their jobs and do not go on killing....

sprees. Do not blame the military for what this guy did.

[EFerrari]

16. Are you kidding me?

The Pentagon sends people with TBI back into combat zones, you bet your sweet remote they are to blame.

[USArmyParatrooper]

19. What are the details of his TBI?

Did he have a concussion in the past that healed? Does he currently suffer from debilitating affects from a brain injury that hasn't healed?

What are the details?

[EFerrari]

21. Go do your own homework. I don't work for you. n/t

[USArmyParatrooper]

24. Which translates to "I have no effing idea"

Thank you for confirming my point.

[Logical]

31. +1000

[EFerrari]

92. The translation is, stuff your red herring.

A reasonable person doesn't need access to his file to draw the conclusion, you don't deploy TBI.

[USArmyParatrooper]

93. You have no idea, I get it.

Whether he was currently suffering from a serious brain injury, or if he simply had a minor concussion 4 years go is very relevant.

The fact that you have no idea which is the case doesn't magically make it a red herring out of convenience.

[HubertHeaver]

34. A concussion is brain damage. Brain damage does not heal. You learn to

live with the damage.

[USArmyParatrooper]

35. Que?

http://www.headinjury.com/braininjurytxmild.html

How fast people recover from brain injury varies from person to person. Although most people have a good recovery, how quickly they improve depends on many factors. These factors include how severe their concussion was, what part of the brain was injured, their age, and how healthy they were before the concussion.
Rest is very important after a concussion because it helps the brain to heal. You’ll need to be patient because healing takes time.

So are you suggesting a concussion, no matter how mild, should put someone on a permanent profile that precludes them from deploying?

[HubertHeaver]

81. That would put everyone on a permanent profile, therefore undeployable. Not a bad idea.

The recovery they speak of is reduced swelling in the brain. Bruised brain tissue does not heal--the adjacent swelling abates allowing the unbruised tissue to resume function.

[uppityperson]

44. Here you go. Most articles about him have this bit, which is all they've released so far.

http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/16/10722498-nbc-news-us-soldier-suspected-in-afghanistan-massacre-identified

Bales had been deployed to Iraq three times before going to Afghanistan. While in Iraq, officials say, he suffered a traumatic head injury in a crash and also suffered a foot injury in a separate incident. In Afghanistan, Bales reportedly saw a friend lose a leg.
What role those incidents may have played, if any, in the shootings, remains unclear. Browne says the soldier may suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder, or PTSD. Browne also said the soldier never expected a fourth deployment.

[USArmyParatrooper]

46. All they have is cause, not affect nor the extent of the injuries.

I just don't like people going on tirades about things they know next to nothing about. They hear he had TBI and suddenly, "Why was someone with a brain injury deployed???" and page after page, thread after thread going on and on. And that's just one small example of people being overly reactionary.

There's a guy in my unit who used to play semi-pro football. He's had a concussion before, so if he deploys should it be - "Why was someone with a brain injury deployed???" for him as well?

[uppityperson]

50. Damn those privacy laws anyway. No one should have an opinion until they know all the facts? Pshaw

Regarding this guy, seems like he should not have been deployed, wouldn't you say?

Having no clue anything about "a guy in my unit"s issues, I have no opinion.

[USArmyParatrooper]

59. Yes, and then some.

Yes, you should know all of the relevant facts before you form an opinion. But even more important than that, you definitely shouldn't be lambasting people or organizations unless you know all of the facts.

Not only should he not have been deployed, he shouldn't have been in the army. The same with many, many others who join and commit crimes. But it's also impossible to know who is going to do what at any given time, so the more important question is - were there any signs or extenuating circumstances that lead to what he did, that his unit knew about?

Maybe, maybe not. But I just don't go around picking up torches and pitch forks before I know the facts. I'm silly like that.

[uppityperson]

60. Wrong. And indeed, those who got Steven Green in and out should also be charged but they won't.

Wrong in that yes, I can lambast those who sent Robert Bales back. And Steven Green. Even if I don't know everything. Neither do you, You have opinions based on the same facts I have.

It does not exonerate anyone from doing atrocities. Not at all. But I am glad to lambast this War Machine as it has been proven over and over and over that it doesn't care about the men and women that are in the military.

I call for better vets services. More accessible non-stigmatic mental health care. More and better taking care of those who are in war situations.

[USArmyParatrooper]

64. WTF?

"Neither do you, in calling him simply a murderer who deserves to die."

Copy, paste and link please.

[uppityperson]

66. I was wrong, was mixing up 2 posters. again. You did not say that.

[USArmyParatrooper]

68. Fair enough.

And I stand by what I said about not throwing accusations until you have enough of the facts.

[uppityperson]

71. edited as I blew it. Now, the situation sucks. And my apology for messing this up.

The situation sucks. The poor people he killed. His poor mind and family. I hung with Nam vets back in college and since and it is just hard for so many.

One of the reasons I speak out so strongly against "oh, let's start the draft, that'll stop them" people. Why give more bodies to throw into the fray? Why would ANYONE thing congress would pass something that their kids could not buy their way out of? Why not work towards getting congress to get it all under better control. Money, people, etc etc etc. The system is bad and not enough care is taken of those brought in and thrown back out again, so often in parts.

[USArmyParatrooper]

73. If you can direct me to the post in question..

I can then look at the context and give you a more detailed answer. There's no doubt he is a murderer. If I added the words, "end of story" I wasn't trying to imply that there isn't possibly contributing factors to consider. Just that at this point that's all know for sure.

[uppityperson]

74. Fair enough also. It sucks, think we can all agree on that.

This is the post I thought was you, but I was confusing you with another poster, my apologies and thank you for being civil. Seriously.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=433498

[USArmyParatrooper]

75. Not my post nt

[uppityperson]

79. you are right, I am wrong. I did confuse you with another poster. My apologies.

I'll go edit and self delete some. Again, my apologies. I am off my game today, sorry.

[Mimosa]

82. Bale was not a 'criminal'

And you are not a neurologist.

Any human being can snap under certain conditions which present more stress than he can bear. You should know that, at least.

[fascisthunter]

62. lol... a lawyer for the military industrial complex

as if they didn't have enough influence.... bleh.... disgusting.

[USArmyParatrooper]

65. Wake me up when you actually have something substantive to say.

zzzzzz

[Logical]

23. Yes, they sent over 500,000 to the same situation. And if you are ok with our.....

troops killing kids because they got redeployed shame on you.

No excuse for what this asshole did. It was a hate crime pure and simple.

If he was mad he could have shot his commanding officer I guess. It was the military's fault, not the Afghan children!!!

[EFerrari]

28. That doesn't even make sense at a literal level. n/t

[Logical]

29. Well, tell the children he killed that he was justified doing it. I am sure....

the family of the dead kids will feel his pain of being redeployed!!!

[11 Bravo]

33. They knew the rules? There are no fucking rules! Do one combat demployment.

One mother-fucking tour. Then come back and share your wisdom.

[Logical]

37. So all soldiers with 4 deployments would be OK killing Afghan civilians in your book? Wow, classic!

[11 Bravo]

38. Yeah, that's what I said. (Find another user name, your current one is a terrible fit.)

[Logical]

39. No defense of this idiot. Hate crime 100%! And you are totally ignoring the people.....

he murdered for NO REASON!

[11 Bravo]

54. I'll say this once, and I'll say it really slowly. I weep for the innocent victims.

The man who took their lives wore the same uniform that I once proudly wore. I want justice to be done in a more visceral sense than you could ever imagine.
But my contempt for you stems from the fact that you are willing to completely ignore the possibility that the man was not of sound mind. You have no fucking idea what the guy went through. Perhaps you're the atypical uber-macho stud who can witness buddies being blown away without batting an eyelash. I was not. Every time we lost a man, I got pissed, but like every other grunt I knew, we just continued to fight for each other.
You've never been in that position, and perhaps it's just as well. Better you stay in your basement and toss around words like "idiot" and "hate crime".

[fascisthunter]

63. thank you

[Logical]

72. Any different from Jared Loughner? n-t

[11 Bravo]

76. Yes. And it reflects poorly on you that you can't discern that. n/t

[Logical]

77. Explain how? You KNOW jared loughner had no mental issues? You....

know jared loughner did not have work issues?
Funny how you do not see the same possibilities!

[Mimosa]

83. ^ Bravo, Bravo! ^

Each person I know who has served in the military has said what you posted. They coundel not rushing to judgment since nobody knows the facts. And they don't trust the Pentagon's 'stop loss' systems or the P.R. flacks.

[limpyhobbler]

67. "do not blame the military for what this guy did"

I think maybe we ought to start looking for a leadership problem, a command problem. This is coming right after 2 other highly publicized incidents: burning Qurans and urinating on corpses. There has to be some sort of leadership failure. There is a pattern of increasingly destructive outbursts. I'm not trying to excuse the guilty individual in this case at all. He should be held accountable. But I also see a pattern there that points to a leadership fail, IMO.

[nadinbrzezinski]

90. Add all the problems out of his home base

there is a pattern here.

[KG]

14. coz the prez would look weak on defense or some such bullshit.

he gotta seem just as tough as any republican on the issue.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. From what the lawyer said

He was promised non deployable status due to TBI and PTSD. He was deployed.

Not to justify him, but it explains to me why he snapped. He is no longer deployable

[limpyhobbler]

10. "He is no longer deployable"

Understatement of the year.

[USArmyParatrooper]

17. Was he?

What I read is that he was told his unit would not be deploying anytime soon, and they ended up deploying.

At this point there's so much speculation and I've seen the media get so much shit wrong, I'm taking everything with a grain of salt. Whether someone has a medical classification that makes them non-deployable is up to his medical care providers, not his unit.

[EFerrari]

18. A distinction without a difference. nt

[USArmyParatrooper]

22. Actually there's a vast difference.

Being told you're on a specific medical status and being deployed against your medical classification is vastly different than receiving unexpected deployment orders.

Leadership can say there's no foreseeable deployments in the future, but NO unit can promise it won't happen. Plans change and any NCO would know this. He made the decision to join, and reenlist twice.

[EFerrari]

27. You are attempting to cover up incompetance, at best.

I hope you get something for that because it is transparently wrong and despicable.

[USArmyParatrooper]

30. You make no sense at all.

How is opining that his unit receiving an unforeseen deployment order is vastly different than violating a medical class - "covering something up?"

Explain what you meant when you said you hope I "get something" for that?

[EFerrari]

95. Wrong. Afghan families are not the only ones who have suffered

fallout from the crappy Pentagon performance on psychiatric issues. Ask any of the survivors at Ft Hood or the families of the dead there.

[USArmyParatrooper]

96. Ah! I see. So agree with EFarrari

otherwise it MUST be because you're trying to "cover something up."

I mean, God forbid a well meaning, intelligent person simple disagree with you without an ulterior motive. That would be unthinkable!

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. I am quoting the lawyer

and to me it explains it very well. In fact, I expect that to be the central part of the defense. Hell, if I were the lawyer, I would make it.

In fact, it will win him some leniency. The other thing that will is the stupid statement from Paneta (and command authority influence) on this being a death penalty case.

Of course the other larger question is being brushed under the rug... that be repeated deployments, and an over stretched and broken force. I am thinking we will be bringing troops home well before 2014 and all this mess brings the specter of choppers, or most likely a bridge...



Less known photo of the fall of saigon



And here, the Russians leaving... crossing that famous bridge back home.

[davepc]

20. A freeper claims to of been his superior in Iraq...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2860095/posts

All,

I served with Bales for three years as his Platoon Leader. He is an absolutely outstanding Soldier, and what has transpired here is so out of character, I don't even know where to start. Please keep his wife and two young kids in your thoughts and prayers. He needs help. Hopefully he'll get it.

A few more posts then that and a photo.

[EFerrari]

26. The report on Amy's show this morning was the same.

He was known as a quiet guy and a good soldier. I believe this freeper (okay, first time for everything).

[Mimosa]

84. EF, interesting how the anti-war types are uniformly tolerant...

and not condemning a man who may have snapped under pressures and pain most of us could not endure.

Thanks for being a light, as always.

[roughrider101]

89. not condemning....I sure am.

Boo Hoo for his pressure.
A month ago I was at a dinner with 3 medal of honor recipients. The oldest of which served in the Battle of the Bulge.
To give you some perspective 10 times more American soldiers died in that month long battle than the entire 10 years in Afghanistan.
At that dinner I turned to a friend of mine (who had done 3 iraq tours and one afghanistan, getting a purple heart on each one) and we both agreed that old man went through more than both of us combined.
So frankly I dont care a fick for his snivelling.

If guilty of the charges He's a murderer, end of story. He premeditatedly murdered a dozen children as they slept for no reason other than to murder them. Far as I'm concerned he's a scum bag who should get a firing squad.

[EFerrari]

94. And your condemnation accomplishes what, exactly?

Especially hinging as it does on a big IF.

I know everyone on the intertubes has to rush to take a position but isn't more important for us to figure out if unfit service people are being deployed to combat zones, placing others as well as the mission in jeopardy?

It's not like this Pentagon is great at handling mental health stuff, Ft. Hood being another example where a lot of people paid with their lives in a preventable tragedy.

[JonLP24]

32. He isn't incorrect at all about his description

of July '06- Sept '07. The extra 3 months he served during the "surge" which came in the spring. I was in July '06 to July '07, avoided the "surge" because I was in a Joint Task Force w/ National Guard, Reserve, Air Force, and Navy units that different deployment duties than active Army units.

[roughrider101]

42. That his buddy is a freeper

Explains a lot.

[uppityperson]

45. His superior, not nec his buddy.

[roughrider101]

55. Really? rolling eyes?

buddy is a term that can be used rather loosely, and include his platoon leader.

[SammyWinstonJack]

49. No it doesn't. TBI does, though.

[roughrider101]

57. rolling eyes back at you

because TBI most certainly doesnt explain going on a killing spree, anymore than being a postal employee explains "going postal".
The killings are also clearly pre meditated.
He's a murder, end of story.

[gulliver]

58. Not conclusive, but relevant.

Freerepublic routinely dehumanizes Muslims. I remember a post there to the effect that the Afghans didn't like it when they got a taste of their own medicine. At the link above, there is the usual post about Obama being a "Moslem". And it is is not meant as a compliment.

[roughrider101]

40. The "conversation" is nonsense

If guilty he is a disgrace and deserves execution, full stop.

There is nothing to understand or justify or whatever.
He did 4 deployments....and? Lots of people have. I have one buddy who did 5, and another who did 8 (was in a Ranger batt). If you want to be an active duty infantry soldier, that's your job description, and not an excuse to go on a murder spree. His actions bring disgrace on his uniform, endanger and insult his comrades in arms, and are worthy of nothing less than a firing squad.


and yes, I'm a veteran.

[Logical]

41. Thanks for this! And thanks for your service! n-t

[roughrider101]

43. I was in Iraq during the

mahmudiyah rape/killings, and felt the same way.
I would gladly have killed those guys myself. If an American soldier wants to act like a Taliban he deserves to be treated as one.

[Logical]

69. I can't imagine dealing with that. You should be proud! n-t

[roughrider101]

88. I wouldnt say that

If anything when the details of that incident started coming to light I felt ill.
Those "troops", and I use the world loosely given that IMHO they no longer are fit for the word, are detestable. There is no 'band of brothers' sympathy for the likes of them.

[uppityperson]

47. There is a huge difference between understanding causes and justifying what happened

I don't see anyone here justifying what he did. None.

There is a whole lot to try and understand here. A whole lot. Understanding factors that may have factored into this might help prevent further murders from happening in the future.

Rather like Steven Green. NO one here says what he did, or what Robert Bales did, is ok because of what they may have gone through in life. I'd like to see you point to one person here, aside from perhaps a troll, who does. However, like Steven Green, IF those releasing him back to duty knew the guy had psych issue, or TBI causing issues, then THEY also deserve to be taken to task for their parts in these murders.

[roughrider101]

51. fair enough

I commented after following the above link to the free republic...caused me to become very angry.
Naturally they did not post my comment there, so I vented it here.

[uppityperson]

53. Stay away from there, it is infuriating indeed.

[Mimosa]

86. That's sensible, Uppity

There may be a medical/psychological issue related to an injury and stress. We all don't have the same capacities. The military employs MDs and other professionals to evaluate combat stress. It's possible they can make mistakes, right?

[laruemtt]

48. we need the draft back again. then,

when everybody's eligible to fight these BS wars, just maybe we'll have some healthy protests that will end all this war infinitum once and for all.

[uppityperson]

52. Bull puckey. The draft never ended any war, just gave the War Machine more fodder. And I know,

"make sure there are no loopholes" in a bill. Right. As if that would happen.

[got root]

85. TPTB Learned plenty during flower power era

They figure they got plenty of volunteers in this economy though.

Another 'benefit' of being poor... u get 2 fight our wars.

😥

[Mimosa]

87. Got Root, I've long speculated the same.

Without forced conscription (the draft as we know it) the economy has to be depressed in order for most young strong people to choose to risk their lives.

So many military people say they joined because they could thus obtain educational benefits not otherwise available.