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Thu Jan 16, 2014, 12:58 PM

 

Executed Killer Dennis McGuire Gasped And Snorted For 15 Minutes Under New Lethal Drug Combo

Executed Killer Dennis McGuire Gasped And Snorted For 15 Minutes Under New Lethal Drug Combo
By ANDREW WELSH-HUGGINS - AP/HuffPo
01/16/14 11:07 AM ET EST

<snip>

LUCASVILLE, Ohio (AP) — A condemned Ohio killer appeared to gasp several times during his prolonged execution with the first use of lethal injection process never before tried in the U.S.

Death row inmate Dennis McGuire made several loud snorting or snoring sounds during the more than 15 minutes it appeared to take him to die.


It was one of the longest executions since Ohio resumed capital punishment in 1999.

McGuire's stomach rose and fell several times as he repeatedly opened and shut his mouth.

McGuire's adult children sobbed a few feet away in a witness room as they watched him die.

<snip>

Link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/16/dennis-mcguire-execution_n_4610582.html




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Reply Executed Killer Dennis McGuire Gasped And Snorted For 15 Minutes Under New Lethal Drug Combo (Original post)
WillyT Jan 2014 OP
TroglodyteScholar Jan 2014 #1
Amaril Jan 2014 #4
Aerows Jan 2014 #11
frylock Jan 2014 #38
William769 Jan 2014 #49
frylock Jan 2014 #52
William769 Jan 2014 #55
frylock Jan 2014 #62
William769 Jan 2014 #63
frylock Jan 2014 #69
William769 Jan 2014 #71
frylock Jan 2014 #72
William769 Jan 2014 #75
frylock Jan 2014 #85
nobodyspecial Jan 2014 #86
kcr Jan 2014 #88
William769 Jan 2014 #89
kcr Jan 2014 #91
BuddhaGirl Jan 2014 #100
CreekDog Jan 2014 #120
William769 Jan 2014 #121
CreekDog Jan 2014 #122
Skip Intro Jan 2014 #135
CreekDog Jan 2014 #136
Skip Intro Jan 2014 #138
CreekDog Jan 2014 #139
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply .
Skip Intro Jan 2014 #141
Rex Jan 2014 #144
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply !
CreekDog Jan 2014 #145
Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2014 #147
TroglodyteScholar Jan 2014 #127
sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #143
get the red out Jan 2014 #97
lostincalifornia Jan 2014 #102
CreekDog Jan 2014 #119
Ranchemp. Jan 2014 #57
Aerows Jan 2014 #74
Aerows Jan 2014 #50
frylock Jan 2014 #53
littlewolf Jan 2014 #116
TroglodyteScholar Jan 2014 #124
Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2014 #146
MADem Jan 2014 #2
Aerows Jan 2014 #5
markpkessinger Jan 2014 #41
Aerows Jan 2014 #42
WinkyDink Jan 2014 #125
markpkessinger Jan 2014 #140
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Hayabusa Jan 2014 #130
warrant46 Jan 2014 #8
Aerows Jan 2014 #12
warrant46 Jan 2014 #46
Aerows Jan 2014 #48
warrant46 Jan 2014 #51
Aerows Jan 2014 #58
warrant46 Jan 2014 #67
Aerows Jan 2014 #77
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MADem Jan 2014 #30
Whisp Jan 2014 #25
Aerows Jan 2014 #45
Mrdrboi Jan 2014 #60
MADem Jan 2014 #81
Cleita Jan 2014 #3
Aerows Jan 2014 #7
Cleita Jan 2014 #9
Ranchemp. Jan 2014 #14
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frylock Jan 2014 #40
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frylock Jan 2014 #47
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enlightenment Jan 2014 #82
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Mrdrboi Jan 2014 #70
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LittleBlue Jan 2014 #78
Aerows Jan 2014 #80
nadinbrzezinski Jan 2014 #90
dionysus Jan 2014 #96
MADem Jan 2014 #142
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pansypoo53219 Jan 2014 #99
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Lost_Count Jan 2014 #101
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Post removed Jan 2014 #118
Union Scribe Jan 2014 #103
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Sunlei Jan 2014 #106
Rex Jan 2014 #107
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mokawanis Jan 2014 #111
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Barack_America Jan 2014 #126
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Barack_America Jan 2014 #131
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Hippo_Tron Jan 2014 #133
dionysus Jan 2014 #150
NM_Birder Jan 2014 #148
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dionysus Jan 2014 #156

Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:03 PM

1. Good.

Murder is ugly, especially when the state is the murderer. Maybe someday more people will come to see that we shouldn't be killing each other in the name of justice.

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Response to TroglodyteScholar (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:07 PM

4. Wish I could recommend your post (n/t)

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Response to TroglodyteScholar (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:14 PM

11. Maybe we should take a leaf from the book of the animal kingdom

 

sick individuals eventually have to get put down because they are a danger to their own kind, themselves and every other creature around them.

Nobody ever said the death penalty was a delightful thing. Nobody ever said any jury thought it was a good way to rule. I think everybody, though, thinks there are crimes that nobody should be allowed to perpetrate, no matter what, on the society around them. That includes the jails they are housed in. Suppose you were serving a marijuana sentence with something like that? Do you want him to get loose to your side of the prison?

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Response to Aerows (Reply #11)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:58 PM

38. perhaps we need to seriously address why that person is in prison for a marijuana offense..

rather than continuing with state-sponsored murder.

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Response to frylock (Reply #38)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:22 PM

49. I would first rather address someone that killed a newlywed that was 8 months pregnant.

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Response to William769 (Reply #49)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:28 PM

52. very simple; life in prison without parole..

see how easy that was?

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Response to frylock (Reply #52)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:31 PM

55. I like the option used in this case better.

I'll even do one better do away with using these drugs to kill & go back to old sparky.

So I guess you know where I stand on this issue.

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Response to William769 (Reply #55)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:36 PM

62. i do. you have the same view as they do in north korea and saudi arabia..

hold your head high with pride.

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Response to frylock (Reply #62)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:37 PM

63. I always do!

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Response to William769 (Reply #63)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:41 PM

69. as i'm sure you do when innocent people are executed

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Response to frylock (Reply #69)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:42 PM

71. You're a mind reader?

Good for you!



ETA: You really need to sharpen that skill tough.

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Response to William769 (Reply #71)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:44 PM

72. just using basic logic here..

you support capital punishment, even knowing that innocent people have been, and will continue to be murdered by the state. there really is no grey area here.

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Response to frylock (Reply #72)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:46 PM

75. Nothing is perfect.

Have a nice day.

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Response to William769 (Reply #75)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 03:32 PM

85. you accept the murder of innocent people as the cost of doing business..

rationalize it in any way you like.

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Response to William769 (Reply #75)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 03:33 PM

86. "Nothing is perfect"

WTF?!?!? That is your response to innocent people being killed by the state?

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Response to William769 (Reply #75)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 03:43 PM

88. Awful.

As long as it's not you or one of yours, who cares, right? Disposable humans!

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Response to kcr (Reply #88)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 03:53 PM

89. I probably could have phrased it better but considering who I was responding to, I didn't see

The need. Yes it's not perfect, that doesn't mean we can't strive to make it perfect.

But like anything, we work with what we have. Given the process & the appeals stages, we are headed in the right direction.

I know there are many on here that disagree with me about the death penalty & thats fine, we will just have to agree to disagree.

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Response to William769 (Reply #89)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 03:59 PM

91. Perfect is impossible

We have the death penalty? Innocent people will die. It's not worth it. Yeah, agree to disagree, whatever, but the death penalty is one of those opinions I'm appalled by. I can't understand being okay with innocents dying. And the only progress getting made with the DP is that there is less and less of it.

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Response to William769 (Reply #89)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 04:57 PM

100. There will NEVER be a way to make it "perfect"

therefore innocents will continue to be subjected to state-sponsored murder.

Nice to know that some who advocate for equality are perfectly fine with our country being lumped together with the likes of North Korea, China, Saudi Arabia, Iran...etc. etc.

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Response to William769 (Reply #75)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 08:03 PM

120. human rights are human rights

look around the world.

countries that treat those in prison the worst, tend to treat all other minorities worse too.

it's not an accident.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #120)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 08:28 PM

121. Your right human rights are human rights.

And the victims that were murdered had those rights taken from them in the most inhumane way.

You might as well be talking to a wall when talking to me because I will speak for those who can't speak for themselves anymore. You fight for who you want to and I'll fight for who I want to.

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Response to William769 (Reply #121)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 08:41 PM

122. Victims' rights are indeed important, but killing someone gives nothing good to a victim

I'd support doing things that do truly help a victim in a meaningful and positive way.

Money to them or loved ones, especially where the crime has harmed their income or been financially injurious.

Money to them or loved ones also for what they've gone through.

Supporting efforts to reduce crime in ways that work, and the death penalty, costly as it is, invests in something that ultimately doesn't do anything more than life imprisonment to stop crime.

It equates justice with death, which is actually something our society's murder rate shows we should be moving away from, rather than having the state sanction it.

The lowest crime rates are precisely where death is not a penalty.

The problem with killing to solve killing is that it tends to make the rest of us more like the criminal, not less.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #122)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 10:54 PM

135. "The lowest crime rates are precisely where death is not a penalty."

link(s) please

if there were a calendar with pages being ripped away to indicate the passage of much time smiley, I would have used it here, because I'm sure we'll see much time lapse before a post with legit links from CD appears

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Response to Skip Intro (Reply #135)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 11:05 PM

136. I'd respond to the always class act William769

You I will not.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #136)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 11:21 PM

138. Called it. n/t

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Response to Skip Intro (Reply #138)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 12:04 AM

139. Yes I did

Thank you for acknowledging that.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #139)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 12:07 AM

141. .

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #139)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 09:13 AM

144. ALERT ALERT! I wuv Creekdoug!

 

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Response to Rex (Reply #144)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 11:49 AM

145. !

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #122)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 02:36 PM

147. Wonderfully put.

"The problem with killing to solve killing is that it tends to make the rest of us more like the criminal, not less."

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Response to William769 (Reply #121)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 09:31 PM

127. If I'm ever murdered...

...you will be the last person I want speaking out on my behalf.

I'm betting some share of murder victims were against capital punishment when they were living.

So maybe if you have respect for victims, as you truly seem to, you'll recognize that you can't speak for them any more than they can speak for themselves.

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Response to William769 (Reply #121)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 02:10 AM

143. And then we become what we say we despise the most. I will never allow a monster who murders

innocent people turn me into what s/he is. I am better than that, which means being able to control emotions that lead people to commit these heinous crimes.

There's a reason why we are the only so-called civilized country on the planet that still views 'justice' as 'revenge'. Justice should never be tainted with revenge. Remove that person from society forever, state sanctioned murder is still murder. If you shot him on the street, regardless of his crimes, you would be charged with murder. I fail to see how having the stamp of approval of any government, makes it less of a crime. The DP is a Right Wing policy, brought to us by the 'law and order' far right Republicans who have basically been wrong about everything.

Fortunately there is less and less support for it since we learned how many innocent people have been wrongfully convicted.

Some day, hopefully soon, we will join the rest of the civilized world and end this barbaric practice.

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Response to William769 (Reply #55)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 04:19 PM

97. I'm right with you

You are not alone. Psychopaths need to be put down, I have no pity for people who do the things this man did.

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Response to William769 (Reply #55)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 05:03 PM

102. Have you heard of cruel an unusal punishment. He may have deserved the penalty, but not the

suffering, and those that relish in that have issues I think.

What I do not understand is why didn't they just administer morphine. This whole situation was badly handled for sure, and definitely not humane

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Response to William769 (Reply #55)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 08:02 PM

119. the problem is it doesn't make us safer

it's just designed to make us feel better.

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Response to frylock (Reply #52)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:32 PM

57. +1000. eom.

 

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Response to William769 (Reply #49)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:45 PM

74. Me too n/t

 

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Response to frylock (Reply #38)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:23 PM

50. Never argued anything different

 

I believe the pursuit of "drug war" participants weakens our ability to stop actual crime. I'd rather have someone stop a rape, a murder or a bank robbery than arresting someone smoking pot. The smoking pot is much more simple of an arrest, though, isn't it?

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Response to Aerows (Reply #50)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:29 PM

53. indeed

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Response to Aerows (Reply #50)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 06:26 PM

116. much easier, and much more profitable as they can seize property. nt

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Response to Aerows (Reply #11)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 08:47 PM

124. "Take a leaf from the book of the animal kingdom..."

This is precisely what we're doing, and have been since the beginning of "civilization," and I suppose even before. It sucks out loud, and we should be past it. Trying to fix violence with violence is fucking madness. Full stop.

I'll leave you to ponder your own hypotheticals. I don't really have any wiggle room in my opinion.

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Response to TroglodyteScholar (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 02:33 PM

146. Unfortunately, too few in our bloodlust society will come away with that response.

Instead, they'll be thinking, "Well his victim suffered and died so he should suffer and die too." And totally miss the irony of that type of thinking.

We live in an irony-deficient society.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:04 PM

2. I'll bet they won't be using that method again.

Seems like a textbook definition of "cruel and unusual." Punishes the family of the perpetrator, too--as well as anyone watching from the sidelines.

Beheading or a firing squad would be more humane.

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Response to MADem (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:07 PM

5. Beheading of firing squad would be more humane

 

well said. Distancing yourself from the inhumanity of eliminating a human parasite, which this guy was, does no good for society. I'm no fan of brutality, but there are some things that people do that deserve being put down like a sick animal gets put down. It isn't justice, it is kindness.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #5)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:00 PM

41. Indeed . . .

But then, our society's objection to those methods has never really been about whether they were "humane" or not. Although people may couch their objections to methods like the firing squad or guillotine in terms of being concerned about executing people in a "humane" way, their real objection is that these methods make it harder for society to deny the violence of the act it is carrying out.

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Response to markpkessinger (Reply #41)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:03 PM

42. It's true

 

I do not deny it.

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Response to markpkessinger (Reply #41)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 08:47 PM

125. Beheading is barbaric.

 

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #125)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 12:05 AM

140. No argument there . . .

. . . but I would say that capital punishment in general is barbaric, regardless of the method used.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #5)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 08:46 PM

123. No, no, and vehemently no to the idea of beheading as "humane." Death is quick, yes, but the sheer

 

TERROR AT KNOWING YOU ARE LITERALLY GOING TO LOSE YOUR HEAD IS BEYOND CRUEL.

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #123)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 10:19 PM

130. Hasn't it been shown that the head lives

for about 12 seconds? Not so quick if that is indeed true.

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Response to MADem (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:10 PM

8. Similar to the once favored Crucifiction

Only not as long

Some say it should be a public spectacle as a deterrent.

Then it was called lynching on the Court House steps. Still popular in Indiana in the 1930s

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Response to warrant46 (Reply #8)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:15 PM

12. Enjoy getting locked up for something

 

and being locked up with that. Not saying you will, but there is a chance. Now do you have a different point of view?

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Response to Aerows (Reply #12)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:15 PM

46. Whaa ?

Are you talking about ?

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Response to warrant46 (Reply #46)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:19 PM

48. I'm not certain what part I should enlighten you about

 

The people in prison part, or the violence that occurs in communities part.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #48)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:27 PM

51. It's sarcasm-- but I think you replied to someone else

I see no prison part

and the part about Indiana--- what about that ?

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Response to warrant46 (Reply #51)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:33 PM

58. It's kind of as WTF? as your post

 

I just played along. Wasn't trying to be mean, just playing

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Response to Aerows (Reply #58)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:40 PM

67. Thank you for the intelligent reply

Sometimes it gets tense around here a little humor helps too

Here is the Indiana link

I Didn't post the photo

http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0309/lm18.html

Lynching 1930

A mob of 10,000 whites took sledgehammers to the county jailhouse doors to get at these two young blacks accused of raping a white girl; the girl’s uncle saved the life of a third by proclaiming the man’s innocence. Although this was Marion, Ind., most of the nearly 5,000 lynchings documented between Reconstruction and the late 1960s were perpetrated in the South. (Hangings, beatings and mutilations were called the sentence of “Judge Lynch.”) Some lynching photos were made into postcards designed to boost white supremacy, but the tortured bodies and grotesquely happy crowds ended up revolting as many as they scared.

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Response to warrant46 (Reply #67)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:48 PM

77. Well that's certainly relevant

 

a satirist that 10,000 white people bashed a black person. Good Job.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #77)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 03:00 PM

79. 10,000 female people

 

No? I think we have the ability to tell our own stories.

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Response to warrant46 (Reply #8)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:45 PM

30. In Iran, Saudi Arabia and a few other countries, it IS a public spectacle. Still.

In Iran, they like to hang people--often right before morning prayer. They don't bother to build the gallows anymore (years ago, they used to do this); instead, they use a drott crane, and they attach the rope to the crane hook and give a sharp yank upward. Very upsetting but quick.

In SA, they still are fans of beheading.

China executes an untold number of people ("thousands," but they don't release their figures); USA has been on a downward slide over the last decade or so in terms of using the option, which is an improvement, anyway. Still a ways to go, but we're pikers compared to some.



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Response to MADem (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:34 PM

25. reminds me of The Green Mile

 

I agree with a bullet or chopping - way more humane that this experimental Mengele chemical gawdwfulness.

So sickened and saddened.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #25)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:14 PM

45. "Mengele chemical gawdwfulness"

 

Here is where we agree wholeheartedly, Whisp. Either kill them or don't, don't keep screwing around making people guinea pigs. Hanging, beheading and shoot people has always been a method that wasn't horrible. Hate the crime, execute the criminal, but no need to let it linger.

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Response to MADem (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:35 PM

60. Actually Beheading isnt quite humane.

Supposedly when someone gets head choped off in a quick fashion the head is alive for few sec. There is a reason why beheading is no longer a method of execution.

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Response to Mrdrboi (Reply #60)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 03:07 PM

81. Ok--you have a choice. You can drown from "air hunger" for five minutes, or you can

be "alive for few sec."

If I had a choice, and they were killing me, I'd say "Off with my head." No contest.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:05 PM

3. Seems like a firing squad or guillotine would be more humane.

None of it is acceptable, of course, in a so-called civilized society.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:09 PM

7. Every single society

 

in the animal kingdom included, puts down sick animals. As humans, we just have sick animals that have more power than they should. It's injustice to let a rabid, sick animal die a painful death and take others with that animal, why is this any different?

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Response to Aerows (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:12 PM

9. We have other means of separating them from society.

Also, it's been proven that at times the person executed was innocent. To me, if there is a chance of this, we shouldn't do it by giving the benefit of the doubt.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:17 PM

14. In this case there was no chance that he was innocent.

 

He confessed to this horrendous crime and the DNA evidence was overwhelming against him.
I'm anti DP, but it this case, I'm not going to lose any sleep or show any sympathy for him.
I will express sympathy for his family, who witnessed this execution.

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Response to Ranchemp. (Reply #14)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:19 PM

17. That's actually where my sympathy lies too, with the family.

When a person goes to prison, society punishes the family as well.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #17)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:20 PM

18. So true. eom.

 

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Response to Ranchemp. (Reply #14)


Response to Cleita (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:19 PM

15. How?

 

Other than solitary confinement, which is also fairly evil. It also endangers prison officials. Sometimes there is no good answer.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #15)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:28 PM

21. People like that are damaged beyond repair and belong in a psychiatric institution that has

maximum security for those kind of inmates. They still are being punished because they have lost their freedom and their every minute is micro-managed so they have essentially lost their life while they still have to live it, but not the way they want to. It's not up to us as a society to physically and mentally harm them. When we punish or execute a person like this, it is done in our name as much as if we wielded the metaphorical ax ourselves. I don't want to share responsibility in this.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #21)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:42 PM

29. I would metaphorically wield it

 

because it is mercy.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #29)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 04:04 PM

95. No it is because you see your fellow man as nothing more than animals

You have said so repeatedly.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:58 PM

39. Yeah, we're a little different from the rest of the animal kingdom.

In case you were wondering.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 04:03 PM

93. You can't get past being an animal?

I have always found that people who are ardent supporters of state murder, are cut from the same cloth as the people they would have executed.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:26 PM

19. If we did use the guillotine, the jury would have to look at the accused and think......

......."Jeezus H. Keerist!!!!! They want to chop this poor bastard's head off!!!!"

I bet we'd get fewer people on death row!

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Response to LongTomH (Reply #19)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:31 PM

23. The guy who invented the guillotine did so because he felt it was a quicker

less painful death than beheading or hanging. However, those who witnessed it had to see the gruesome aftermath of blood and severed head. That could influence a jury especially if the law said they had to witness the execution.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #23)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:50 PM

35. To say nothing of a head that was still alive, conscious and in obvious pain for a minute or so.

 

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:08 PM

6. Gosh that's just terrible

 

I wonder how long pregnant Joy Stewart may have been gasping and suffering while he raped and fatally stabbed her.

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Response to legcramp (Reply #6)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:13 PM

10. An eye for an eye...

 

It's that mentality that makes us such a violent culture...

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Response to joeybee12 (Reply #10)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:17 PM

13. Eye for an eye is immediate death

 

Locking someone up for years while they are an imminent harm to society were they to get out, including to those in jail with them, seems like going out of the way to make certain that you are putting down the right criminal.

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Response to legcramp (Reply #6)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:19 PM

16. yeap

 

hard to muster much sympathy.

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Response to legcramp (Reply #6)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:30 PM

22. There is no doubt she suffered horribly. And there is nothing that will ever erase

 

her murder, when she was 8 months pregnant.

But shall we have our government give torture as punishment? No.

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Response to legcramp (Reply #6)


Response to legcramp (Reply #6)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 04:04 PM

94. Great, so we sink to just barely above his level.

 

At least when he was doing it he wasn't calling it justice and pretending to be righteous.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:28 PM

20. Joy Stewart

the 22-year-old newly married woman who was 30 weeks pregnant can now rest in peace now that this creature has been put down.

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Response to donco (Reply #20)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:52 PM

36. She can't rest in peace or non-peace. She's just dead.

 

And you have no way of knowing whether she would have wanted this execution to occur.
Friggin blood lust.

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Response to HERVEPA (Reply #36)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 04:26 PM

98. One thing is for certain

This asshole will not be killing anyone else, Ohio took care of that.

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Response to get the red out (Reply #98)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 10:45 PM

132. He wasn't killing anyone when he was behind bars now was he?

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Response to donco (Reply #20)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 04:02 PM

92. She's dead. I doubt her non-existence has any opinion on the guy's execution.

 

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Response to donco (Reply #20)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 05:30 PM

113. Where the hell have they kept her body so that she's

 

Not yet resting in peace. Further, even if she was hanging around somewhere, who the fuck are you to presume that she shares your vengeful blood lust? Shame on you.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:32 PM

24. if you murder some one

 

my compassion ends for that person....

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Response to beachbum bob (Reply #24)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:40 PM

28. As does mine.

 

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:34 PM

26. I remember when his victims died, reading articles about their horrible final moments

Oh wait. No, I don't Hmmm, wonder what that was like being raped and stabbed. Dying in your mother's womb? I bet it was something terrible. I bet her husband and parents sobbed. I bet folks held vigils and decried the horrors of it all.

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #26)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:57 PM

37. I can't work up any sympathy...

... for this maggot who not only did this crime (and how many others?) but tried to pin it on his brother in law. What a maggot.

I'm not sure why there is suddenly a problem getting the proper drugs to carry out executions but the only problem I have with the death penalty is the certainty of guilt. It was a certainty in this case so I'm not going to lose any poutrage over this.

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Response to sendero (Reply #37)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 11:08 PM

137. They're made in Europe and the EU forbids using their products in executions

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:36 PM

27. Aren't lethal injection drugs supposed to just stop your heart?

This sounds like the drugs failed and slowly suffocated him instead.

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Response to Dash87 (Reply #27)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:48 PM

33. Lethal injections rarely kill instantly

no matter what they use. And each human beings physiology is different so the results will vary.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:46 PM

31. Basically, they used him as a test animal to test the new protocol.

It had never been used anywhere in the world to execute someone, but somebody thought it maybe kinda sorta oughta work. And that is what happened.

If we are going to execute people, we should do it in a quick and clean manner.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:47 PM

32. It would not surprise me if someone decide to use this guy as a guinea pig

for some nefarious purpose.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:48 PM

34. I am unalterably opposed to the death penalty.

Period. Those who commit capital crimes should spend their lives in a high-security prison and be reminded daily of why they are there. That is my opinion.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #34)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:12 PM

44. My opinion is that I don't give a shit if he suffered. Joy Stewart, her baby, and their family...

 

THAT's who I care about.

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Response to ChisolmTrailDem (Reply #44)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:39 PM

65. Yet isn't it interesting that virtually every other western democracy . . .

. . . manages to deal with these problems without resorting to state-sanctioned murder?

Look, I am 100% opposed to capital punishment, but I can't honestly say I lose a great deal of sleep over a case like this particular one. But here's the problem: although this case may seem to be cut-and-dried, and an "easy call" as it were, the fact of the matter is that many cases are NOT so easy. And there is no way to ensure that capital punishment will be used only in these "easy" cases. Trying to justify state-sanctioned killing by pointing only to the most egregious cases and cases in which there is virtually no doubt as to a defendant's guilt, without being able to justify it in those cases that aren't so easy or clear, is fundamentally morally dishonest, because there is no way to have one without the other.

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Response to markpkessinger (Reply #65)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 03:28 PM

84. Don't get me wrong, I lean heavily anti-death penalty. However, I often find

 

myself in the peculiar position of not giving a shit in certain beyond-doubt cases.

Like this one.

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Response to ChisolmTrailDem (Reply #84)

Sun Jan 19, 2014, 05:37 PM

155. Yeah, you sure do.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #34)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:15 PM

47. agreed

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #34)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:41 PM

68. +1

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #34)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 03:07 PM

82. I agree.

There is no wiggle room on this. You either oppose it or you support it.

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Response to enlightenment (Reply #82)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 03:10 PM

83. That's how I feel, too. You can't be partly against the death penalty.

I do not believe that the state should kill people convicted of crimes. There is too much chance of error, as has been demonstrated many times in the past. Lock up murderers and rapists, and the like for the remainder of their lives. Provide only the bare minimum needed to keep them alive and healthy, and remind them daily that they ruined their own lives and that they will spend the rest of their lives locked in a cage for their crimes.

I'm not anti-punishment. I'm only opposed death penalty.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:30 PM

54. we're such a civilized nation

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:31 PM

56. I see many here saying they have no sympathy for a killer and that's fine

No one expects you to have sympathy for him. But maybe we should have sympathy for ourselves that we feel the need to have the state carry out murder and brutality in our name.

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Response to Arcanetrance (Reply #56)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:34 PM

59. Who else should do it?

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Response to HipChick (Reply #59)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:35 PM

61. No one we should be better than an eye for an eye

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Response to Arcanetrance (Reply #61)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:37 PM

64. Better?

I think we need to execute more...what's the cost of keeping a prisoner on death row?

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Response to HipChick (Reply #64)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:39 PM

66. Ah yes and while we are at it we can start chopping off arms of those that steal

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Response to HipChick (Reply #64)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 03:40 PM

87. Higher than life in prison

 

so if that is your argument, life in prison is cheaper.

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Response to Arcanetrance (Reply #56)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 10:52 PM

134. Even if I had no sympathy for killers (and I'll admit, I have sympathy for everyone)

I'm not arrogant enough to believe there's a 0% chance I could be executed for a crime I didn't commit. Given that I'm white and middle class, it's a slim chance, but I'd rather that chance be zero than slim.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:41 PM

70. I really dont have the sympathy for someone who commited such a violent murder.

He probably felt less pain than the victims did.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:45 PM

73. That's disgusting.

I feel really bad for his kids, who had to watch that. It's harder to muster sympathy for him, considering what he did... But ultimately, it's cases like this that makes me very anti-death-penalty.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:47 PM

76. Does anyone know how federal courts have ruled on the "cruel" part of cruel and unusual?

 

It seems to me that the act of killing someone, no matter what the method, is pretty cruel. How have the courts addressed that point, does anyone know? thanks.

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Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #76)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 05:28 PM

112. First off it has to be cruel AND unusual.

 

It can be cruel as long as not unusual. There has been slow chipping away at the death penalty in the US. For example, now mentally disabled defendants cannot be executed. Those who were juveniles at the time of the crime cannot be executed. And, only cases that resulted in death are eligible for execution.

Some means are cruel and unusual. The state could not execute by dismemberment. It is really only a matter of time that te US joins the rest o te civilized world in an outright ban on executions. It's a shame that so many blood thirsty vengeful people still by into this archane practice still.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #112)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 05:47 PM

114. thanks. I had never thought about both conditions having to be met

 

...but yes, you're right. It clearly says cruel AND unusual.

thanks, morningfog.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 02:54 PM

78. All executions should be public beheadings

 

broadcast on live TV.

Make the people see what their government does. Injecting people with drugs, and doing it out of sight, only makes others feel more humane.

Personally I'd opt for beheading if I had to die, screw injections.

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #78)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 03:02 PM

80. I guess I'm an asshole

 

but I think so too, and I'm as liberal as they come. End it soon.

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #78)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 03:58 PM

90. You are onto something

 

you know why they moved behind prison walls? They used to be public and popcorn was sold and all. Because people grew increasingly opposed to them. So yes, they should be public. That is the fastest way to the end of the death penalty indeed.

And I am as opposed to it as it comes. Zero effects on future crimes, and they are far more expensive to carry out than life in prison, and damn it, we do make mistakes and execute innocent people from time to time, or people who do not know what they did. (as in mentally challenged)

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 04:13 PM

96. wth, did they not use enough? it shouldn't be hard to quickly kill someone with an overdoes of a

high powered benzo and synthetic morphine...

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Response to dionysus (Reply #96)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 01:34 AM

142. Why not just go into the evidence locker and shoot 'em up with a massive heroin overdose?

People die of overdoses all the time, unintentionally. How hard would it be to kill them off with the stuff deliberately?

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Response to MADem (Reply #142)

Sat Jan 18, 2014, 09:50 PM

149. thats what i'm sayin. i'm not pro DP, but if you're gonna do it, even i can think of painless ways

to do so.

these guys were using a powerful benzodiazepine and synthetic morphine... all they had to do is crank up the dosage...

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Response to dionysus (Reply #149)

Sat Jan 18, 2014, 10:52 PM

151. I am on the same page. They'd have done better to consult a veterinarian and ask them how they put

down, say, a horse.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 04:42 PM

99. and what noises did his pregnant VICTIM make?

meh.

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Response to pansypoo53219 (Reply #99)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 05:22 PM

110. Who cares? Why would you eat to know that?

 

What is this eye for an eye, 400 BCE?

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 04:58 PM

101. Good... Hope it hurt like hell...

 

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Response to Lost_Count (Reply #101)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 05:09 PM

104. and what would that accomplish to give the condemned extra suffering? Would that bring back the

the victims? I take it you are for cruel and unusual punishment.

I am not making an argument for or against the execution, but if the execution is done it should be done with the least amount of suffering, otherwise we are no better than they are

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Response to Lost_Count (Reply #101)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 05:21 PM

109. Get lost, count.

 

Crawl back to whatever sick hole you came from.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #109)


Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 05:07 PM

103. Ugh. I feel sick reading that.

Whatever people think about Capital Punishment, this is insanity. All this effort and pageantry that goes into executions to pretend they're clinical and humane is grotesque.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 05:10 PM

105. THIS is who we've become. We are no better than the Nazis.

Murdering pigs.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 05:17 PM

106. they probably didn't use enough. If 'the state' wants to kill, than give a MASSIVE overdose.

Must have been horrible for the watchers, though the guy had to have been sound asleep & snored for a while.

Midazolam-Is used before surgery or certain medical tests to make you sleepy, drowsy, or relaxed.

Hydromorphone-Treats moderate to severe chronic pain. This medicine is a narcotic analgesic.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 05:17 PM

107. Okay fine, why not build an instant incineration machine?

 

Let them personally walk headfirst into oblivion and then vanish into nothingness. It would be the method I would choose.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 05:20 PM

108. Shame on Ohio. Fucking barbarians.

 

End capital punishment nationwide.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #108)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 05:27 PM

111. Exactly

The idea that it's ok to kill someone to make the point that killing is wrong, is barbaric and insane.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 05:57 PM

115. I am anti dp

that being said, years ago I worked on forensic psych unit and some of those folks were a danger to staff and required extended periods of time in a seclusion room or restraints.
I don't know what is more or less humane.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 06:32 PM

117. I just want to comment on the snoring/snorting part

That is not uncommon in natural deaths, I did hospice nursing for a few years and sat with several people who died, also family members, there's sometimes a period of cheyne-stokes breathing that could appear to be snoring/snorting with periods of apnea and agonal breathing. This does not mean the person is conscious or aware. I am not condoning the death penalty by the way.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 08:50 PM

126. That's pretty much what a natural death looks like..

...for those who haven't seen one. It should not be interpreted as him experiencing any pain or discomfort.

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Response to Barack_America (Reply #126)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 10:12 PM

128. There's no pain or discomfort in "natural death?"

 

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Response to morningfog (Reply #128)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 10:36 PM

131. I didn't say that.

Even if people are loaded up on narcotics (hence, not feeling pain), they will do these agonal breaths. It's a natural thing and should not be interpreted as pain or discomfort. This is what the body does as it shuts down.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 10:18 PM

129. If we are going to use capital punishment,

we should make the death of the individual as humane as possible. This new combination clearly isn't.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Thu Jan 16, 2014, 10:49 PM

133. Do we know those are indicators of pain? From my understanding...

The old cocktail was often botched and left the condemned suffering for an hour or more in pain, but there were simply no symptoms because they had a paralysis drug in there. With animals they use a single drug and there's lots of violent movement but no pain.

I'm 100% against capital punishment in all circumstances, so I'm not defending this, just trying to get a better understanding.

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Response to Hippo_Tron (Reply #133)

Sat Jan 18, 2014, 09:54 PM

150. i agree, it's easy to use massive doses of drugs to kill someone quickly

while, personally, I think there are cases requiring the DP, I can't support it as a policy because it's documented that innocent people get caught up in it.

hitler? sure. other than that...

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 02:40 PM

148. Wonder how long the innocent woman and her child gasped for air before they died ?

 



Fuck him......Fuck him right in both ears.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sun Jan 19, 2014, 10:31 AM

152. Ever see someone you love removed from life support?

 

They choke and gurgle and gasp for air, and it is most inhumane. I would be more interested in seeing a more humane method for these innocent people to die than to worry about what happens when the killer dies.

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Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #152)

Sun Jan 19, 2014, 03:08 PM

153. yes, my mom. but i think it was harder for us watching than it was for her. she wa on a large dose

of propofol and fentanyl drips, so she was out cold. still, it was the ugliest thing I have ever watched.

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Response to dionysus (Reply #153)

Sun Jan 19, 2014, 04:43 PM

154. I expected her to go quietly

 

from the way they pushed it on us. But it was so horrible.

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Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #154)

Sun Jan 19, 2014, 08:16 PM

156. some of it, i guess, you just can't avoid... it was mostly peaceful, but at the end there was what i

can only describe as a "death rattle" (my dad fairly collapsed and I almost puked, but held it together). i'll never be able to forget it, but I know she was in no pain.

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