People voted for Obama because he was not like Hillary

[Harmony Blue]

or we wrongly assumed. What makes people think the general population will want to vote for Hillary this time around? Obama's administration and approach has mirrored how Hillary's administration would have potentially been like with very tiny differences. It seems to me when Obama was voted that the country was hungry for change, and is still is hungry for change. Obama turned out to be to similar to Bill Clinton though ironically. I believe the country wants someone with fresh new ideas outside of the DLC bubble.

[hrmjustin]

1. Polls seem to indicate the public respects Hillary.

[Jack Rabbit]

64. I respected Barry Goldwater, but I'm glad he wasn't president

[hrmjustin]

66. I am glad he is not president either.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

134. Hillary did want him to be President.

She was a Goldwater Girl in high school. I don't hold that against her; I hold more recent things against her. But I thought it was comment worthy since you mentioned AuH2O in a Hillary thread.

[Jack Rabbit]

138. Well, it isn't her fault that her parents raised her as a Republican

But she'll have to own her belief neo-liberal policies in spite of the disaster of NAFTA.

After NAFTA, anyone who tries to sell the TPP/TPIP as something that will "create jobs" should be ashamed of himself.

[geek tragedy]

2. People voted for Obama becausehe was Obama, not because

he wasn't Hillary. In the primary anyways, plenty of people who liked both wound up supporting one or the other.

In the general, the vast majority of his voters were people who didn't want another Republican in the White House.

[Wait Wut]

7. Yep.

But, it's easier to use a broad statement to insinuate that anyone that voted for Pres. Obama was shallow. Maybe we just didn't want to elect a woman? & <-------- because someone will take that way too seriously.

[mikekohr]

60. Double yep. Don't forget the historic Republican obstructionalism though

President Obama had one of the most Liberal records in the Senate. He was elected President, not crowned King.

We could not/did not stop non-stop fillibusters in the Senate 2009-2010 and then lost the House.

Not having the votes make a difference. A HUGE difference.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

72. wish i could remember who were the ones ranting here about how

THEYYY'RE not going to vote because their "liberal purity" had been violated....... I remember that crap around here before the house elections.

[Hekate]

105. It's back. In fact, it never went away.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

107. true.

Yecch.

[GoCubsGo]

57. Yes, and many of us also don't care much for political dynasties.

We were not interested in "Bush-Clinton-Bush II-Clinton II".

[lumpy]

84. Correct

[Tarheel_Dem]

3. Nice big old broad brush you got there. Don't paint me with it. You don't know why I do what I do.

[frazzled]

4. Speak for yourself

Projection is a bad habit on this board.

Note: There is no "we."

[SamKnause]

5. Voted

DC doesn't much care what the country wants.

They have proven it time after time.

They take their marching orders from Wall Street thieves, corporations that kill, maim, and pollute, the right wing lunatic fringe, and last but not least The Military Industrial Complex.

[zappaman]

6. I voted for Obama because I liked Obama.

And thought he could do some good for the country.
Not sure why you voted for Obama or even if you did vote for Obama.

[ananda]

8. I voted for Hillary Clinton in the primary.

I voted for Obama in the general, even
though I had to hold my nose to do it.

[Tx4obama]

91. <holding my nose while reading your comment> n/t

[Cha]

96. Thanks.. I needed

that! Tx

[Glassunion]

9. I voted for Hillary, because she was Hillary.

I felt then and I feel today that she was the better candidate.

[CoffeeCat]

10. True...

Hillary represents the establishment. She voted for the Iraq War and she joined in the saber rattling on Iran, when Bush was President. She's right on many issues, including women's reproductive health, healthcare and she represents our country well (unlike Bush, who was a terminal clown).

However, she's a corporatist. She was supposed to be the anointed once, then something funny happened in Iowa. The state rejected her and she came in third in the Iowa caucuses. She'll have a tough time breaking barriers in Iowa, this time around too--if there is a non-establishment Democrat running.

She ran a very insincere campaign in the run up to the Iowa caucuses. She even planted people at an intimate Q&A--where people thought Iowans were asking her questions and she was being open and honest. It was revealed that several questions were staged. You don't f around with Iowans or the Iowa caucuses. Iowans take their first-in-the-nations status seriously, and you screw with them--you're done.

Not saying there's no hope for her, but she will enter Iowa with some major dings. She had the nomination unexpectedly taken from her, when Obama won the nomination. If she runs this time, I'm sure the establishment is doing all they can to ensure that she wins this time.

It's tough though, as a Democrat.

In the end, if the choices are Hillary and Christie or some other Republican nutjob--of course we'll vote for Hillary.

[Scuba]

11. Obama ran as a progressive. That's what got him elected. To ignore that is either ...

... stupid or disingenuous.

[VanillaRhapsody]

52. He did? Because I don't remember him calling himself that....

I supported Hilary in the primary because she was closer to supporting Universal than he was....I voted for President Barack Obama because he won the primary and I vote Democrat...ALWAYS!

[Harmony Blue]

71. I disagree

Obama wasn't explicit about it but there was signs that he was a center left Democrat. Actually I thought Hillary would be more hawkish than Obama but I have been proving wrong. In fact, I think Hillary has shown she is more open to diplomatic channels. That is one difference between the two but on various other issues they are fairly similar.

[Phlem]

115. yep.

We're having the same issue here in Washington State dealing with our New Democratic Governor Jay Inslee and the about face he took on Medical Marijuana.

I just want to stress, "They Change Once They Have Their Seat!"

-p

[Hekate]

119. No-He ran an optimistic campaign,but beyond that there was MASSIVE projection on him from every side

DU was awash with psychological projection. Obama wasn't black enough, he wasn't angry enough, he was going to single-handedly bring us single-payer health care coverage, he was going to enact our vengeful fantasies and toss the entire Bush cabal into federal prison.

Good God Almighty. He was none of those things and he promised none of those things, and if I could see it after reading his first book and listening to his speeches, so could anyone. But the projection went on and on, and it was at the root of so much of the immediate and searing anger at DU right after he took office.

To ignore that is either.... well, you said it.

[lumberjack_jeff]

125. Exactly right. n/t

[Marrah_G]

126. ^this

[treestar]

132. [phone]

[Vincardog]

12. I voted for PBO because he CAMPAIGNED as a liberal; and his opponent's were the Devil's spawn.

[Cleita]

16. I didn't vote for Obama in the primary.

I looked at his record and saw that he was very conservative. I did vote for him in the general election because the opposition was the devil's spawn as you noted. He's an okay President. At least he's not a hot head who will drive us off the cliff for ideology. However, I have found his ties and policy decisions in line with Wall Street to be disappointing.

[Vincardog]

23. His ties and policy decisions in line with Wall Street are disappointing and must not be found in

in the next "democratic" administration.

[dreamnightwind]

34. +1

[RC]

13. I voted for Obama the first time, because he was saying things I wanted to hear.

He tried the same thing the second time around, but by then I was much smarter. I just voted for him because he was the lesser of the evils. Hillary has always been too far to the Right for me. It turns out that Obama is standing next to Hillary's Left side.

[Phlem]

102. truth ^^^

-p

[JoePhilly]

14. Um, no.

The policies of candidates Obama and Clinton were almost EXACTLY the same.

Iraq was probably the main difference that pushed Obama over the top with SOME Dems.

The only problem democratic primary voters had back in 2008, was 2 great choices.

This idea that people didn't like or want Hillary is NONSENSE.

IF she took the nomination, she would have also won in a landslide.

Which she will probably do in 2016, if she decides to run.

[Walk away]

15. If Hillary had won the primary she would be President today.

Obama won the primary because primary voters are much farther to the left than your average Dem or Independent voting in the national election. Only the most pathetic Democrat could have lost to a Republican in 2008.

The general voting population (in early polls at least) seems to be enthusiastic about voting for Hillary. It's isn't surprising that the Democratic base would like someone more liberal. The Teabaggers hated Romney and McCain too.

[Beacool]

17. I beg to differ.

First of all, the popular vote was very close. More people voted in the 2008 primaries for Obama and Hillary than had ever voted in any other primary season in history. Second, more registered Democrats voted for Hillary than Obama. There was no trouncing; unlike the minimal amount of votes won by Biden, Dodd and Edwards. There's a difference.

If voters had fully rejected Hillary, she wouldn't have gotten as many votes as she did. Her campaign's biggest mistake was not managing the caucuses properly. That's where Obama acquired his small pledged delegate advantage.

So I don't agree that Obama's nomination meant a rejection by the general population of Clinton's political stance on the issues.

[Dawgs]

22. Sorry, but every time a heavy favorite loses to an underdog it's a big deal.

Spin it any you want, but everyone remembers. It was only 6 years ago.

[Beacool]

27. It's not spin, just facts.

The media back in 2005 started the inevitability meme, just like they are doing now. Neither Hillary nor her close allies are proclaiming that she's running in 2016, let alone that's she's the "inevitable" candidate. The punditry and the media keep pushing that story. The latest one is Time magazine. The cover alone is already deemed controversial.

[Dawgs]

61. So, only Hillary and her allies can determine if she's the front runner?

Even though many experts and opinion polls showed that it was hers to lose.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/14/democrats.poll/ (March 2007)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/22/AR2007072201135.html (July 2007)

By a wide margin, Democrats view Sen. Hillary Clinton (N.Y.) as the party's candidate best positioned to win the general election, and she holds a double-digit lead over Sen. Barack Obama (Ill.) in the race for the nomination, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News Poll.

Can you show me which facts you're talking about?

[karynnj]

32. THERE IS NO POPULAR VOTE IN THE PRIMARIES

That is a fiction that NEVER existed until February 2008!

The reason it is ridiculous is that it does not give equal weight to Democrats in all states. In fact, some primary states received NO "primary votes" as the state's totally legal process had nothing that could be used as primary votes.

Just leave it as the totally true statement that 2008 was very close - but HRC lost.

[PowerToThePeople]

18. Rec, I agree with this sentiment 100%. n/t

[NCTraveler]

19. What makes people think that the person....

who came in a close second in the primary wouldn't stand a chance? Why wouldn't someone who polls as well as she does enter the race? I thin the question is for you. What makes you think one of the most admired democrats couldn't win? Didn't they want someone outside of the DLC bubble last time. There was no real secret that Obama was going to be an insider.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

20. People voted for Obama based on his own merit, on his own person, because he's smart

and a good person and a very brilliant man who has the intelligence and a wit that few others have.

[Whisp]

21. That is correct

and his opponent did not have those same qualities.

I wildy disagree that there wasn't much difference between Obama policies and Hillary's. Crazy talk.

Syria would have American boots on the ground if it was up to Hillary and Petraeus and the warmongers, for one thing.

Iran - no way this peace deal would have happened under Hillitary - she wanted to 'obliterate' Iran.

Iraq would still be running hot with troops too.

ACA would not have happened (and neither public option or single payer, that dream is just that - a dream. But with ACA it is much more possible for the next big step)

But most of all, Hillary does not have the communication skills that Obama has. She is combatant and defensive, he is not.

[Beacool]

29. Oh, please..........

Both had similar a stance on the issues. Iraq was the biggest difference and he was not in the Senate in 2002. He told Russert a different story in 2004.

[Whisp]

31. not true. Hillary likes war, votes for it, and her friends profit from it.

Oh, please...

on that you are correct.

And Obama is there at 3 am when that call comes in, sleepy tired Hillary couldn't make it,

*yawn, stretch. Suzie, I'm sooooo tired, can you do that Ben Gazi sunday talk show pinata thing for me.

[Beacool]

33. You should become a writer.

You excel at writing fiction and whatever else pops into your head.

[Whisp]

38. of course, it's all a lie that Hillary was too tired for the Sunday Talkies...

it's all made up fiction.

same as her Iraq thingie, her Syria thingie (where hubby helped with calling the President 'wuss' for not jumping in with all fours)
and yada yada tons more.

None of this, and more, ever happened!

[Beacool]

51. Hillary had an agreement not to do the Sunday shows.

She only did a handful as SOS. She hates them with a passion. The WH chose to send Susan Rice.

[Whisp]

58. she said she was too tired.

I could find you links but I know you aren't interested.

[Beacool]

78. Susan Rice said that Hillary was too tired.

[Whisp]

81. so you are calling Susan Rice a liar

even though, previous to that the 'oh Hillary is so tired she works soooooo hard', she looks so tired, the poor dear' - this is here on DU, said many, many times.

Tired Hillary was a poor attempt at painting her as super hard working and putting her above people who really do work too hard and at minimum wage and 3 jobs and no lights at the end of the tunnel. That didn't get one gram of sympathy or respect for her from me because her job is too hard and tiring. good fricking grief - always trying to have it both ways, Hillary. Go wallow in your money.

Either way, too tired or too cowardly - both don't make her look too good.

[Beacool]

101. So only poor people can work hard and be tired?

What a crock.........

[Whisp]

108. with little reward, yes. oiy. n/t

[Whisp]

123. I'm sure Hillary would Love to trade jobs with

the slaves in the Haitian factories that she and Bill and scum set up for the benefit of the rich, on the backs of the poor.

*spits

[karynnj]

36. Obama was interviewed right before the convention where he gave the key note speech

His answer was intentionally vague for that reason. He was not going to stab Kerry in the back after Kerry gave him that speech. At any rate, both in 2008 were supporting versions of Kerry/Feingold -- though both voted against it.

[Beacool]

40. He wasn't that vague.

In 2004, he told Russert that he didn't really know how he would have voted in 2002 if he had been in the Senate. He later on retracted that statement when he was the one running for president. I wasn't shocked, that's what politicians do.

[karynnj]

44. Vague in that he refused to say that he WOULD have voted for it

You ignore that he actually was on record in Fall 2002 saying he was against it.

I suspect that the Clinton people would have done better letting Obama have that -- and focusing on the fact that they had since then taken similar position - both as votes and for what they took as positions. (The latter is a bit off as HRC spoke tougher - intentionally on Iran. )

[Beacool]

53. He was against it before he was noncommittal and then back to being against it.

My point is that he's no different from other politicians.

[karynnj]

86. True - and for reasons I suggested

Note that he did not ever flip to saying he was for it.

[Whisp]

109. Obama isn't for dumb wars, Hillary apparently is. n/t

[DisgustipatedinCA]

135. The good old days...when Tim was the dumbest Russert in the public eye.

[Beacool]

136. Until he keeled over............

[liberal_at_heart]

25. I voted for Obama because I thought he was a liberal. I have been sorely disappointed.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

35. And you're making the same mistake with Schweitzer. You're not researching his entire platform.

You should have known that Obama was not liberal. I was a Kucinich supporter up until the very end. When it all came down to Obama vs. Hillary, I went with Obama. No one politician is going to be 100% pure. I'm a liberal and proud of it. You do with the one who brings you closest to the ideal. For me, that was Obama, and he still is. I'm still very proud of President Obama's accomplishments. I am not disappointed. Not in the very least.

[liberal_at_heart]

41. I never said I was a supporter of Schweitzer.

I wish I had been a Kucinich supporter. I bought into the lies that you have to vote for who can win. Maybe if more people like me had been a Kucinich supporter he could have received enough votes to win. Well I'm not making that mistake again. Either I vote for someone like Kucinich or I don't vote at all. I will not vote for more of the same any more.

[MFM008]

24. I was torn

I went back and forth and trended Hillary until Obamas speech in Iowa. Then that was it.

[Aerows]

26. Obama ran as a Progressive

He ran a better campaign. Better presidency? Up to opinions.

I won't be voting for Hillary. I want Martin O'Malley or Elizabeth Warren. I'm not in for the "annointed" candidate. I want someone that shakes it up.

[upaloopa]

28. That's not why I voted for Obama. I think Hillary

would be a good president if she is not full boat third way. If that's the case I would't vote for her.

[Marr]

50. She's the very definition of Third Way.

She and her husband practically established the brand (which Obama also very anxiously signed on to).

[stevenleser]

30. Your history is a little off. It was pretty close to a tie.

Obama
States carried 29+DC+DA+GU+VI
Popular vote 17,584,692
Percentage 47.31%
Delegates 2,285½

Clinton
States Carried 21+PR+AS
Popular vote 17,857,501
Percentage 48.04%
Delegates 1,973



Obama in purple, Clinton in that other color

[Beacool]

37. Thanks, Steve.

Obama won most of the caucuses (except NV) and Hillary won most of the large state primaries (except, IL & NC).

It was razor thin close, proving that both candidates were liked. I don't think that the enthusiasm that we saw in 2008 will be surpassed for a long time.

Edited to add:

Total estimated pledged delegates in 2008

Obama 1,828½

Hillary 1,726½

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2008_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries

The grand pledged delegate difference was 102. As I said, a very close election.

[karynnj]

39. There is no such thing as the national popular vote

Yes, I realize that you can add anything you want, but that does not make it true. The proplem is that it underweights caucus states - including in some tallies ignoring a fewer states that had perfectly legal caucuses. It also includes Michigan, where Obama was not on the ballot because they moved their primary to a time the DNC said would not be counted.

Delegate counts are what count. Everyone KNEW the rules - and Obama won by a decisive margin.

[Beacool]

43. I don't want to hear about the caucuses, they shouldn't even exist.

A candidate who won a caucus by 1,400 votes got almost the same amount of delegates as one who won a primary by 100,000 votes. How is that democratic??????

The whole caucus system is pure B.S. and should not exist in the 21st century. It should be 50 primaries and let the chips fall where they may. I've been saying this for years, regardless of who was in the running.

[karynnj]

45. Whether you think they should exist or not, they do

and the rules were known by everyone going in.

The delegates for a state are set by the Democrats in the state relative to other states. You are underweighting those states when you use the "votes" and sum nationwide. That is just basic mathematics! (Not to mention, there were more "votes" in Porto Rico using your method than "votes" in several caucus states. )

[Beacool]

48. Excuse me, but I didn't come up with these figures.

Just as Steve is doing, we are just posting what has been already established.

[karynnj]

68. Of course you did not come up with those figures,TEAM CLINTON and their media allies did

The fact is that in all previous years - even when Bill Clinton ran - the media reported the DELEGATE TOTALS.

As I said, mathematically, you CAN sum the "votes" over states. However, it ignores the fact that each state determines its process. It is ridiculous that some states that had caucuses where there were no released numbers that could be used as "votes" would get none - yet PR, gets full credit for all of its.

If you wanted to sum the states, at least there should be weights applied to give each state a reasonable weight based on the number of Democrats in the state. This would make the estimates closer to the delegate count.

Check if you want, but "popular vote counts" were not mentioned until the Clinton team did less well than they assumed they would on SuperTuesday. That is when the idea of superdelegates supporting the "better" candidate shifting the lead -- and one justification was the "popular vote". (Consider that there would have been NO talk of giving the nomination to Obama if Clinton won the majority of pledged delegates.)

[Beacool]

77. TEAM CLINTON and their media allies????

Where have I heard that before? Oh yeah, from Fox and talk radio.

[karynnj]

85. How silly!

Read the NYT articles on SuperTuesday the day or two afterward. They spoke of people close to the Clinton campaign - sometimes even named - speaking of superdelegates and "popular vote".

Why? Their analysis - knowing that they had not worked hard in the next several sets of states - was that they could well lose this.

[stevenleser]

46. I know. But it is something still reported.

Obviously if you get more votes in primary states than other folks you make a big deal about it even though there is a question of whether it means anything.

I think the bottom line is that this race was more or less a tie and somewhere around 95-99% of the supporters of either candidate were going to support whoever the nominee was between the two of them.

[ProSense]

42. I voted for Obama

because I didn't want my paychecks garnished or war with Iran.

[pnwmom]

47. Plenty of people liked both Obama and Clinton. I would have been happy to support either one. n/t

[VanillaRhapsody]

54. Me too...because I am a Democrat and not ashamed of it!

[Cali_Democrat]

49. I voted for Obama in the primary and both general elections

He has surpassed my expectations. I was disappointed with him when he cut a deal on the Bush tax cuts in late 2010. I was also disappointed with the Libya strikes, but he has more than made up for it with the Iraq and soon to be Afghanistan withdrawal.

He has been awesome IMO and he's gotten so much accomplished even with the worst congress in the history of our country.

Obama is one of the best Presidents this country has had. Thankfully we still got 3 more years!

[Tx4obama]

92. And DADT is gone. And Obama has appointed a higher percentage of female & minority federal judges...

... than any other president in US history

[NorthCarolina]

55. They won't. Fool me once......... nt

[George II]

56. No, it wasn't quite that cut and dried

If you're talking about the general election, Hillary wasn't on the ballot.

[aikoaiko]

59. no, it was the hope and change thing.

Once Obama's numbers took off, everyone else (including Hillary) started talking about change, but they weren't credible agents of change.

[Starry Messenger]

62. All the primary candidates that year started out equal with me.

I was paying attention to what Obama would do because his Keynote speech in 2004 was very impressive and I like Kerry enough that I trusted his judgement of the new guy.

Hillary is also very popular, and I don't think their respective positions are all that different. I ended up supporting Obama in the primary, because I thought Obama's campaign was very smart.

I think it is good for any election when people are passionate about their respective primary candidates, it generates electoral buzz for the general.

If many people run, it will bring lots of ideas to the election. I don't understand the bloodsport attitude of people here, years after the elections, with all the resentful butthurt.

[liberal_at_heart]

63. John Edwards was actually my favorite at the beginning. He actually talked about the poor.

You hardly ever hear politicians actually address the poor as directly as he did. He obviously screwed up with the whole mistress thing. But I was still grateful to him for bringing attention to the people that no one pays attention to anymore. Hopefully we will hear the same from other candidates in the future. I will be paying even more attention this time around. I will not just be voting for who I think can win. This time I will vote my conscience.

[Starry Messenger]

94. A focus on poverty and jobs are going to be what I'm looking for in our next candidate too.

[nolabear]

65. I voted for Hillary in the primary and I will again.

I was glad to see Obama win but I'd have been happy with Hillary. She can actually win.

[gwheezie]

67. My 1st pick in 08 was Mike Gravel

He never made it to my state's primary. Kucinich was my next choice, what did it for me was the LOGO debates, Gravel and Kucinich were the only 2 that had no reservations or equivocations about marriage equality. I lost any support I had for Richardson, he was horrible during that debate. I like that in a person, knowing what they stand for.I voted for Hillary in my state's primary, I had to hold my nose on her Iraq vote my reasons for not voting for Obama in the primary was basically his inexperience and I thought Hillary would be able to handle the gop better. I had no problem voting for him in the GE and by that time I did believe the right person got the nomination. I never thought he was a liberal, I don't think Hillary is a liberal either. Obama has handled this better than I thought he would, I'm not sorry I voted for him. Once I voted for Nader, I won't vote 3rd party again, so I am going to vote dem in 14 and 16, the gop alternative would be horrifying. There are several dems I would be happy to vote for, I can't think of one gop I'd vote for.

[LanternWaste]

69. I voted for Obama because he was the Democratic Candidate.

I voted for Obama because he was the Democratic Candidate in the general election-- not because he was or was not someone else.

During the primaries, I didn't vote for Obama-- again, not because he was or was not someone else.

[abelenkpe]

70. I voted for Obama first time because he ran as a progressive

I thought he'd be a new FDR, end the wars and close Guantanamo Bay, reform wall street, support workers and the middle class, help move our country to embrace clean sustainable energy, etc.

I'd still like to vote for a candidate who I could believe would do those things. Hillary would never be believable.

[Tx4obama]

93. The blame for GITMO still being open lays at the feet of the GOP. And regarding everything else...

... the GOP has obstructed many of the good things that President Obama planned to do and still wants to do.

The Democrats have held a filibuster proof majority in both chambers of Congress for ONLY LESS THAN TWO MONTHS since the time Obama was sworn in January 2009.

There is NO person that can get everything done as long as the republicans are in control of the U.S. House.

[Cha]

100. See #99 .. this

shit never fails to come on DU.

[abelenkpe]

103. Yeah, I certainly blame republicans

for blocking a huge amount of stuff.

[Cha]

99. You need to educate yourself more..

[abelenkpe]

112. No I don't

Where in my post does it say I blame Obama?

I could say you need to take some reading comprehension classes but I wouldn't want to be unnecessarily rude and condescending because y'know that never goes over well when you're attempting to inform someone.

[Cha]

113. Yeah ya do.. ya really do.

[abelenkpe]

116. Wow, you are mature

Can't admit that you assumed you knew what I meant and made a mistake? So you gotta double down on the charm. Pathetic.

[Skittles]

73. LOLOL

I have some of whatever Harmony is having

[Warpy]

74. I think the same is true

While I'd love to see a woman in the top slot, I hope it's not Mrs. Clinton.

I don't want a fire breathing progressive, either, because all that dead wood in Congress will still be there, fighting him/her every step of the way.

We were promised hope and change and got little of it from Obama, something that has not entirely been his fault. We're still looking for it, though, and Mrs. Clinton would not deliver it.

[dorkulon]

75. People voted for Obama because he was like Obama.

I would easily have voted Hillary if that's how it went. I think most of us would have.

[Rex]

76. I voted for Obama because I wanted him to be POTUS.

No other reason needed.

[G_j]

79. I think they voted for him because of Bush and Cheney.

some even thought he might hold some people accountable.

[cbayer]

80. I was torn and would have voted for either one.

And I'm happy with Obama and probably would have been happy with Clinton.

The population wanted change from Bush and his cronies. They didn't necessarily want change from Bill Clinton.

I don't think the hunger for change is really there this time around. And, if it is, I don't think it's coming strongly from the left.

So beware.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

82. a lot of us voted for HRC and then Obama.

it's not like there was a huge difference in their policy stances.

[Tx4obama]

83. My vote for Obama had NOTHING to do with Hillary or anyone else. I wanted Obama to become president!

[mikekohr]

121. You are not alone. nt

[Boomerproud]

87. I voted for Obama in the primaries because I didn't want 4 years of Bill jokes on late night

and "pundits" talking about his every bowel movement. I am convinced that is what would have happened if we had President Hillary Clinton. I voted for Barack Obama in the national election 1) because he was Barack Obama and 2) he wasn't John McCain.

[polichick]

88. Your point that the country wants "someone with fresh new ideas"...

is well taken - and imo the best "fresh new idea" would be that gov't serve the people instead of whoring for corporations.

[yurbud]

89. I didn't dislike Hillary--I just wrongly assumed Obama was more progressive

[apples and oranges]

90. That's not true. I would have voted for Hillary

but Obama ran a better campaign and won my vote.

[temporary311]

95. If Obama hadn't run, I probably would've voted for Hillary.

That said, I didn't vote for Hillary over Obama for a few reasons. Primarily, the Iraq War vote. That was what truly did it for me, apart from anything else. Also, she was a Clinton. Nothing against the Clintons personally, but we were basically looking at Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton presidencies, with the possibility of Jeb Bush after that? Far too dynastic for my tastes.

[JI7]

97. i Voted for Obama because i liked Obama, had nothing to do with voting against Hillary

[99Forever]

98. I agree.

If the Democratic Party runs any Turd Way candidate, especially Hillary, the next president will be a Republican.

[Hekate]

104. People voted for Obama because he was Obama. People voted for O. because he was the Dem.

If Hillary had been the Dem. nominee I would have voted for her with a lot of hope that she would make it despite the VRWC (which really exists). She's more qualified than a great many of the male candidates who feel the great call to run. The primary election decisions were all made before I got a chance here in California, so I didn't have to choose between her and Obama. As it was, I was delighted beyond words to vote for the candidate from my home state, a state I would never ever have believed could produce a US President. Mahalo, Hawai'i!

Additionally, may I remind you that by that point ANY Democratic nominee would have been NOT BUSH.

Finally, most of us rightly believed that Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama were both Democrats that would campaign toward the center and operate their presidencies from the center-left. Central is mostly how the country likes it. The GOP swing to the hard right is (I hope to God) an aberration.

GOTV 2014 so that this Democratic president will have a Congress that will work with him for the remainder of his time in office, and so that the next Dem president will have a Congressional base to work with.

[mikekohr]

120. Great insightful post. Dead on grasp of reality.

Does it get lonely here sometimes?

[Hekate]

122. Thanks. So much psychological projection here it makes me shake my head in wonder...

I cover that in post #119...

[nilesobek]

106. No matter who the candidate is

I will vote Democratic across the board. I really hope Democrats can stick together and create a groundswell to prevent the Republicans from making gains this year.

The GOP and its handlers have been shaking the Obama tree for 5 years running now and nothing has fallen out. I'm feeling confident about 2014 because the Republicans, once again, "got nothing."

Work hard, don't give up, love each other, help each other and pull together.

[justiceischeap]

110. I think one thing Hillary has going for her

is that people know she won't let the Republicans walk all over her. That may or may not be a good thing. Anyway, I voted for Obama because Hillary lost the primary. I've never really been an Obama fan, I didn't see him being that different from Hillary and I felt as though the DNC was pushing him down our throats. The DNC decided after he spoke at the first DNC convention that they were going to make him President. With Hillary, I felt, whether you love, hate or are indifferent to her, we'd know what we were getting and she'd play hardball with the GOP.

[Beacool]

137. This..........

[Whisp]

139. Can you give an example how exactly Hillary would handle the Congress that Obama has?

Do you think they would be more willing to work with her (and for what reason?) or do you think she would just make them do the right things just by... what? glaring at them or something?

I am curious why some people think that Hillary and her 'toughness' (lol) can solve things better...

[justiceischeap]

142. I think trying to work with this Congress by cajoling them obviously isn't working

There are times when reaching across the aisle doesn't work--I think she would not have spent so much time trying to appease the Republicans to get them to work with her. I also think she knows where a lot of the bodies are buried from her time as co-President with Bill and could have used that to her advantage--and probably did to some extent as SOS. Of course, since this is all speculation and we have the President we have, I can't give concrete examples of how she would have done things differently. One thing I do know is that she despises Republicans and sometimes tit for tat is a better game played than the gentlemanly chess that Obama has been playing.

[Jefferson23]

111. Obama won because he ran to the left of Hillary. n/t

[Phlem]

114. This is good dialogue!

Great job Harmony Blue!



-p

[nyquil_man]

117. The differences between Obama and Clinton were largely cosmetic.

It's one of the things that made the viciousness of the 2008 primary contest so disturbing. The question was ultimately whether we wanted to elect the first AA, who was a centrist, or the first woman, who was a centrist too.

Flip a coin. Either way, you're getting a centrist.

So no, I can't count myself among the people who voted for Obama because he was not like Hillary. And no, I can't say I'm surprised that the differences between them are tiny.

[Vattel]

118. Obama pretended to be to the left of Clinton on a variety of issues and it was all bullshit.

Like most politicians, he was quite willing to deceive to win office and it worked.

I do think he is less of a militarist than Clinton and so I am not unhappy that he won instead of Clinton. It's hard to say, of course, whether Clinton would have done better. Right now, though, I don't know if I can vote for another presidential candidate who lacks a proper respect for individual rights.

[lumberjack_jeff]

124. If Obama was such a surprise, why do you suppose that Hillary won't be?

Obama didn't make a bunch of promises during the first campaign "Hope! Change!"

Hillary did, and to a large extent it was her promises that he kept.

[Drunken Irishman]

127. No. I voted for Obama because I trusted his leadership.

I still do. I think his approach to nearly everything on the world stage has been completely worth my vote. The only thing I would say has disappointed me was the prolonged period we've stayed in Afghanistan.

But...

He promised to end the Iraq War and he did. He promised to use diplomacy over war and, largely, he has - averting conflict in Iran and Syria. I don't know if Hillary would have done any of that - but it was irrelevant. I didn't vote against Hillary.

Whether his presidency would have mirrored Hillary is pointless speculation. No one knows what she would have done as president.

[colsohlibgal]

128. Might Want To Bone Up On The TPP

Then there is his reluctance to really prosecute Wall Street for rampant textbook fraud that we all paid for. And his chastising Elizabeth Warren for daring to ask a hard question of Jamie Dimon.

I worked hard to elect the man in 2008 because I bought his rhetoric. By 2012 I voted for him because he wasn't Mitt Romney. Voted for who could do the least damage.

He talks a good game, I'll give him that but anyone gung ho to pass the TPP isn't too worried about the rampant economic inequality that keeps getting worse.

[Drunken Irishman]

129. Good for you.

I realize he's working with a hostile congress and has done more in his presidency than pretty much every modern president beyond FDR and LBJ. I happily voted for him in 2012 and would love to vote for him in 2016. I think he's done a fantastic job and already established himself as one of the greatest modern presidents in American history. He's been a trailblazer for women's rights and gay rights, while also advancing the biggest overhaul of America's healthcare system ever. He's proven to be a diplomat, who's ready to listen to the world leaders and absolutely pulled away from the unilateral foreign policy that has dominated America since the Cold War. I feel secure with him as president and believe he is fighting for me every day of his life. I take solace in the fact that there is no better man occupying the White House than the one we've got right now.

[Martin Eden]

130. I will never vote for Hillary in a Democratic primary.

Or John Kerry. Or Joe Biden.

Or ANYONE who voted for the IWR in October 2002 that gave GW Bush authority to invade Iraq.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

131. Alas, he proved to be not much different from Hillary.

Both are 3rd Way Centrist protectors of "politics as usual".

[Whisp]

140. Absolutely wrong.

It was the Clintons that invented that Third Way and Obama never was in the DLC.

Hillary likes dumb wars, like the one she voted for and so many are still suffering from.

Hillary wanted to ruin Syria as well, along with her republican warmonger pal Petraeus.

Hillary tried to get healthcare and failed totally and miserably.

Hillary is a proven liar - among the more ridiculous lies is the Tuzla lie that she got her own daughter to lie with her.

Hillary weeps about slave labour to the public in her 'pretty speeches' but have a look what the Clintons have done in Haiti for the rich at the expense of the working poor.

Much more for the list if you have the time.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

143. Did you forget that Obama escalated the lost war in Afghanistan and runs the drone wars?

His promise to escalate the war in Afghanistan was the deal breaker for me in 'O8.

[Egalitarian Thug]

133. One big difference Between the President and Bill C., Barack Obama was elected

with a mandate by a huge majority. Clinton slipped into a back door propped open by Ross Perot.

[Zorra]

141. I did not see any difference between Barack and Hillary, so I did not vote in the Dem primary

for the first time since I was 18.