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Fri Jan 17, 2014, 08:38 PM

 

If Snowden Made Us Stronger How Is He a Traitor? - FDL

If Snowden Made Us Stronger How Is He a Traitor?
By: Jon Walker - FDL
Friday January 17, 2014 9:18 am

<snip>

During his speech about the NSA President Obama said this current debate on surveillance will make us stronger as a country. From Obama:

One thing Iím certain of: this debate will make us stronger. And I also know that in this time of change, the United States of America will have to lead. It may seem sometimes that America is being held to a different standard, and the readiness of some to assume the worst motives by our government can be frustrating. No one expects China to have an open debate about their surveillance programs, or Russia to take the privacy concerns of citizens into account. But let us remember that we are held to a different standard precisely because we have been at the forefront in defending personal privacy and human dignity.


The only reason this debate is taking place now is because of the actions of Edward Snowden. Logically this must mean what Snowden did was make the country stronger. So Iím curious how Snowden can both be responsible for making the country stronger and also a traitor according to the administration.

It is also worth highlighting that Obamaís defense is to point out he is not as bad as a communist dictator. That is not exactly a high bar.


<snip>

Link: http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2014/01/17/if-snowden-made-us-stronger-how-is-he-a-traitor/


39 replies, 3604 views

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Arrow 39 replies Author Time Post
Reply If Snowden Made Us Stronger How Is He a Traitor? - FDL (Original post)
WillyT Jan 2014 OP
Skittles Jan 2014 #1
LineLineReply !
KG Jan 2014 #2
Skittles Jan 2014 #4
R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2014 #23
Skittles Jan 2014 #31
R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2014 #34
WillyT Jan 2014 #5
WillyT Jan 2014 #21
JI7 Jan 2014 #3
WillyT Jan 2014 #6
JI7 Jan 2014 #8
Fumesucker Jan 2014 #11
JI7 Jan 2014 #12
Fumesucker Jan 2014 #13
JI7 Jan 2014 #14
Fumesucker Jan 2014 #16
JI7 Jan 2014 #18
R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2014 #25
pinboy3niner Jan 2014 #29
R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2014 #24
KoKo Jan 2014 #9
ProSense Jan 2014 #7
R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2014 #26
Katashi_itto Jan 2014 #27
Fumesucker Jan 2014 #10
brush Jan 2014 #15
Egnever Jan 2014 #19
uponit7771 Jan 2014 #33
pa28 Jan 2014 #17
jazzimov Jan 2014 #20
R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2014 #28
Marr Jan 2014 #39
jimlup Jan 2014 #22
creeksneakers2 Jan 2014 #30
uponit7771 Jan 2014 #32
woo me with science Jan 2014 #35
bvar22 Jan 2014 #36
riderinthestorm Jan 2014 #37
Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2014 #38

Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 08:40 PM

1. the fan club will be right along to explain

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Response to Skittles (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 08:41 PM

2. !

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Response to KG (Reply #2)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 08:43 PM

4. here, I'll get it started KG! ------> HILLARY!!! HILLARY!!! <-------

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Response to Skittles (Reply #4)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 11:44 PM

23. Can I play?

 


83 percent of liberal democrats...insert pablum here.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #23)

Sat Jan 18, 2014, 04:03 AM

31. WORSHIP THEIR LEADER?

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Response to Skittles (Reply #31)

Sat Jan 18, 2014, 05:23 PM

34. Post endless beach phptos?

 

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Response to Skittles (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 08:44 PM

5. LOL !!!

 

Ah... schadenfreude.



Did you catch THIS (I Have A Feeling You Might Enjoy It): http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024345007


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Response to Skittles (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 09:29 PM

21. You Were Soooo Correct...

 






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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 08:43 PM

3. the debate could have been had with or without snowden

Obama's point is that unlike places like Russia and China we can do certain things. this was the case before snowden came along.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #3)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 08:46 PM

6. And... Precisely... Just HOW Would That Debate Have Been Initiated ???

 

The ONLY reason it's out there, is that it was FORCED into the open.


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Response to WillyT (Reply #6)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 08:49 PM

8. the NSA has been around for decades

it didn't need to be forced. we knew govt spied. nothing had to be "forced" out.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #8)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 08:54 PM

11. Obama was totally going to start that conversation in February 2014!

Totally!

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #11)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 08:56 PM

12. he could have had the conversation anytime unlike China and Russia which was his point

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Response to JI7 (Reply #12)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 08:59 PM

13. Exactly!

Obama was going to start that conversation just next month. It's really too bad that Snowden had to hog all the glory.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #13)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 09:01 PM

14. Snowden is weakening his claims by hanging out in Russia and not criticizing Russia and China

if it's so horrible and bad why is he there ? in fact he ran off to go there of all places. where it's far worse than the US,UK and other places he has criticized.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #14)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 09:07 PM

16. Precisely, if Snowden had stayed in the US he could have accessed the press like Chelsea Manning did

In order to get the word out.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #16)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 09:11 PM

18. he could have done it in many ways , since Snowden wasn't military like Manning he would have had

more options also.

but i just don't think his problem is with spying itself since he ran off to china and russia.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #18)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 11:56 PM

25. Tell us more about these "more options" and the many splendid ways...

 

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Response to JI7 (Reply #14)

Sat Jan 18, 2014, 12:07 AM

29. He "ran off" to China and Russia

Interesting how his detractors focus on that, as if other dissidents haven't avoided state actions they regard as unfair.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #13)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 11:49 PM

24. Snowden should be brought up on charges of treason for

 


photobombing Obama's transparency.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #3)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 08:50 PM

9. We could have just "gone along" SPYING ON AMERICANS"....

Foreign Countries, Invading Everyone we wanted to Steal Stuff From and Get AWAY WITH IT!
The PEOPLE WOULDN'T WAKE UP....DRONE KILLINGS, ILLEGAL WARS ...and a RUN AWAY US GOVERNMENT?


"nothing to see here move along."

ARE YOU TRYING TO BE SERIOUS?

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 08:48 PM

7. He should be in prison

according to Rand "4th Amendment Defender" Paul

Rand Paul Suggests Snowden And Clapper Share A Prison Cell

Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) on Sunday suggested that former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden and Director of National Intelligence James Clapper should share a prison cell in the U.S.

"Maybe if they served in a prison cell together, we'd become further enlightened as a country over what we should and shouldn't do," he said on ABC's "This Week."

Paul said that he does not believe Snowden deserves harsh punishment for his leaks, but believes that both Snowden and Clapper broke the law.

"So James Clapper did break a law and there is a prison sentence for that. So did Edward Snowden," he said. "I don't think Edward Snowden deserves the death penalty or life in prison. I think that's inappropriate. And I think that's why he fled, because that's what he faced."

- more -

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/rand-paul-snowden-clapper-prison




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Response to ProSense (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 11:59 PM

26. I'm not sure that you have a point.

 

Unless it is to accept NSA spying as just while those that point it out are criminals.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #7)

Sat Jan 18, 2014, 12:01 AM

27. Lol! From you this is truly funny

 

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 08:53 PM

10. FDL?



OK, I got the obligatory FDL mocking out of the way.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 09:07 PM

15. He should have stopped with releasing info on domestic . . .

info gathering. That was legitimate whistle-blowing. Releasing information on our international intelligence gathering (all countries do it), damaged our relationships with some foreign governments and possibly blew the cover of our operatives and the foreign nationals they worked with.

To me because he did the latter, he's no hero as he over-stepped the province of whistle-blower heroism and became something else.

Some call what he did sedition or even treason, I'll just call him a defector.

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Response to brush (Reply #15)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 09:13 PM

19. Well said

 

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Response to brush (Reply #15)

Sat Jan 18, 2014, 06:45 AM

33. +1, Der Spiegel said the docs he gave them could place opperatives in danger, that was needless

...and that's what he should be going to jail for

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 09:11 PM

17. The president himself was surprised at the scale NSA spying so Snowden did him a service as well.

Every extra day Edward Snowden goes without an immunity deal the contradiction you pointed out will grow.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 09:25 PM

20. FDL is the "Newsmax" of Progressive circles. Don't believe

anything you read there.

Are you familiar with the term "Firebaggers"? If so, have you ever wondered where it came from or to whom it applied?

Secondly, Snowden DID NOT make this country stronger. The debate was going to happen - Obama called for it repeatedly. What Snowden did was:

1. Ruin the debate, so that we couldn't have a "grown-up" serious debate but stirred-up the dissenters so that they ran around with their hair on fire.
2. Obscured the real debate and got everyone afraid of "the guvmint" when they should have been afraid of private data-collection.
3. Revealed the methods of data-collection, alerting those who wished to circumvent it how they could.

Snowden did NOT help the debate, he hurt it.

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Response to jazzimov (Reply #20)

Sat Jan 18, 2014, 12:04 AM

28. "The debate was going to happen - Obama called for it repeatedly."

 


Dude, Snowden so photobombed Obama's transparency.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #28)

Sun Jan 19, 2014, 03:08 AM

39. lol

 

No shit-- the claim that Obama was 'just about to get all transparent' is just laughably stupid. But there's no other way to square all these propaganda circles, I suppose.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Fri Jan 17, 2014, 09:31 PM

22. Don't confuse us with reason!

We are suppose to accept the propaganda without thinking about it too much...

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Jan 18, 2014, 01:21 AM

30. Why don't you think its possible for

Snowden to be both? Some things Snowden did were heroic. Others were traitorous.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Jan 18, 2014, 06:42 AM

32. Snowden Hypocrisy = The surveillance programs should be part of national discussion and ...

... should NOT be left up to the Surveillance Community to decide alone ...BUT BUT.... whether I not he broke the law should be left up to him and his lawyers...........ALONE............... and screw what a jury of his peers think...

Again, I don't like the character of someone who thumbs there noses up the government for the sake of embarrassment and then gives media outlets like Der Speigel documents that can NEEDLESSLY place people in greater danger (as der spiegel said they would)... should be lifted as a hero

There could've been another way, I could be wrong but now... thanks to Snowdens unilateral decision.... we'll never know

regards

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Jan 18, 2014, 05:38 PM

35. Thank you.



It is also worth highlighting that Obamaís defense is to point out he is not as bad as a communist dictator. That is not exactly a high bar.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Jan 18, 2014, 05:55 PM

36. DURec for Snowden and the Whistle Blowers.

[font size=3]
Rampant Government Secrecy and Democracy can not co-exist.

Persecution of Whistle Blowers and Democracy can not co-exist.

Government surveillance of the citizenry and Democracy can not co-exist.

Secret Laws and Democracy can not co-exist.

Secret Courts and Democracy can not-co-exist.

Our Democracy depends on an informed electorate.

You either believe in Democracy,
or you don't.
It IS that simple.





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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Jan 18, 2014, 07:07 PM

37. K&R times 1000. nt

 

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sun Jan 19, 2014, 02:58 AM

38. Snowden showed the world what the roaches at NSA are doing and Obama responded with band-aids.

 

And, we're supposed to accept that a little less of the arsenic is more palatable.

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