If Snowden Made Us Stronger How Is He a Traitor? - FDL

[WillyT]

If Snowden Made Us Stronger How Is He a Traitor?
By: Jon Walker - FDL
Friday January 17, 2014 9:18 am

<snip>

During his speech about the NSA President Obama said this current debate on surveillance will make us stronger as a country. From Obama:

One thing I’m certain of: this debate will make us stronger. And I also know that in this time of change, the United States of America will have to lead. It may seem sometimes that America is being held to a different standard, and the readiness of some to assume the worst motives by our government can be frustrating. No one expects China to have an open debate about their surveillance programs, or Russia to take the privacy concerns of citizens into account. But let us remember that we are held to a different standard precisely because we have been at the forefront in defending personal privacy and human dignity.

The only reason this debate is taking place now is because of the actions of Edward Snowden. Logically this must mean what Snowden did was make the country stronger. So I’m curious how Snowden can both be responsible for making the country stronger and also a traitor according to the administration.

It is also worth highlighting that Obama’s defense is to point out he is not as bad as a communist dictator. That is not exactly a high bar.

<snip>

Link: http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2014/01/17/if-snowden-made-us-stronger-how-is-he-a-traitor/

[Skittles]

1. the fan club will be right along to explain

[KG]

2. !

[Skittles]

4. here, I'll get it started KG! ------> HILLARY!!! HILLARY!!! <-------

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

23. Can I play?

83 percent of liberal democrats...insert pablum here.

[Skittles]

31. WORSHIP THEIR LEADER?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

34. Post endless beach phptos?

[WillyT]

5. LOL !!!

Ah... schadenfreude.



Did you catch THIS (I Have A Feeling You Might Enjoy It): http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024345007

[WillyT]

21. You Were Soooo Correct...

[JI7]

3. the debate could have been had with or without snowden

Obama's point is that unlike places like Russia and China we can do certain things. this was the case before snowden came along.

[WillyT]

6. And... Precisely... Just HOW Would That Debate Have Been Initiated ???

The ONLY reason it's out there, is that it was FORCED into the open.

[JI7]

8. the NSA has been around for decades

it didn't need to be forced. we knew govt spied. nothing had to be "forced" out.

[Fumesucker]

11. Obama was totally going to start that conversation in February 2014!

Totally!

[JI7]

12. he could have had the conversation anytime unlike China and Russia which was his point

[Fumesucker]

13. Exactly!

Obama was going to start that conversation just next month. It's really too bad that Snowden had to hog all the glory.

[JI7]

14. Snowden is weakening his claims by hanging out in Russia and not criticizing Russia and China

if it's so horrible and bad why is he there ? in fact he ran off to go there of all places. where it's far worse than the US,UK and other places he has criticized.

[Fumesucker]

16. Precisely, if Snowden had stayed in the US he could have accessed the press like Chelsea Manning did

In order to get the word out.

[JI7]

18. he could have done it in many ways , since Snowden wasn't military like Manning he would have had

more options also.

but i just don't think his problem is with spying itself since he ran off to china and russia.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

25. Tell us more about these "more options" and the many splendid ways...

[pinboy3niner]

29. He "ran off" to China and Russia

Interesting how his detractors focus on that, as if other dissidents haven't avoided state actions they regard as unfair.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

24. Snowden should be brought up on charges of treason for

photobombing Obama's transparency.

[KoKo]

9. We could have just "gone along" SPYING ON AMERICANS"....

Foreign Countries, Invading Everyone we wanted to Steal Stuff From and Get AWAY WITH IT!
The PEOPLE WOULDN'T WAKE UP....DRONE KILLINGS, ILLEGAL WARS ...and a RUN AWAY US GOVERNMENT?


"nothing to see here move along."

ARE YOU TRYING TO BE SERIOUS?

[ProSense]

7. He should be in prison

according to Rand "4th Amendment Defender" Paul

Rand Paul Suggests Snowden And Clapper Share A Prison Cell

Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) on Sunday suggested that former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden and Director of National Intelligence James Clapper should share a prison cell in the U.S.

"Maybe if they served in a prison cell together, we'd become further enlightened as a country over what we should and shouldn't do," he said on ABC's "This Week."

Paul said that he does not believe Snowden deserves harsh punishment for his leaks, but believes that both Snowden and Clapper broke the law.

"So James Clapper did break a law and there is a prison sentence for that. So did Edward Snowden," he said. "I don't think Edward Snowden deserves the death penalty or life in prison. I think that's inappropriate. And I think that's why he fled, because that's what he faced."

- more -

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/rand-paul-snowden-clapper-prison

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

26. I'm not sure that you have a point.

Unless it is to accept NSA spying as just while those that point it out are criminals.

[Katashi_itto]

27. Lol! From you this is truly funny

[Fumesucker]

10. FDL?

OK, I got the obligatory FDL mocking out of the way.

[brush]

15. He should have stopped with releasing info on domestic . . .

info gathering. That was legitimate whistle-blowing. Releasing information on our international intelligence gathering (all countries do it), damaged our relationships with some foreign governments and possibly blew the cover of our operatives and the foreign nationals they worked with.

To me because he did the latter, he's no hero as he over-stepped the province of whistle-blower heroism and became something else.

Some call what he did sedition or even treason, I'll just call him a defector.

[Egnever]

19. Well said

[uponit7771]

33. +1, Der Spiegel said the docs he gave them could place opperatives in danger, that was needless

...and that's what he should be going to jail for

[pa28]

17. The president himself was surprised at the scale NSA spying so Snowden did him a service as well.

Every extra day Edward Snowden goes without an immunity deal the contradiction you pointed out will grow.

[jazzimov]

20. FDL is the "Newsmax" of Progressive circles. Don't believe

anything you read there.

Are you familiar with the term "Firebaggers"? If so, have you ever wondered where it came from or to whom it applied?

Secondly, Snowden DID NOT make this country stronger. The debate was going to happen - Obama called for it repeatedly. What Snowden did was:

1. Ruin the debate, so that we couldn't have a "grown-up" serious debate but stirred-up the dissenters so that they ran around with their hair on fire.
2. Obscured the real debate and got everyone afraid of "the guvmint" when they should have been afraid of private data-collection.
3. Revealed the methods of data-collection, alerting those who wished to circumvent it how they could.

Snowden did NOT help the debate, he hurt it.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

28. "The debate was going to happen - Obama called for it repeatedly."

Dude, Snowden so photobombed Obama's transparency.

[Marr]

39. lol

No shit-- the claim that Obama was 'just about to get all transparent' is just laughably stupid. But there's no other way to square all these propaganda circles, I suppose.

[jimlup]

22. Don't confuse us with reason!

We are suppose to accept the propaganda without thinking about it too much...

[creeksneakers2]

30. Why don't you think its possible for

Snowden to be both? Some things Snowden did were heroic. Others were traitorous.

[uponit7771]

32. Snowden Hypocrisy = The surveillance programs should be part of national discussion and ...

... should NOT be left up to the Surveillance Community to decide alone ...BUT BUT.... whether I not he broke the law should be left up to him and his lawyers...........ALONE............... and screw what a jury of his peers think...

Again, I don't like the character of someone who thumbs there noses up the government for the sake of embarrassment and then gives media outlets like Der Speigel documents that can NEEDLESSLY place people in greater danger (as der spiegel said they would)... should be lifted as a hero

There could've been another way, I could be wrong but now... thanks to Snowdens unilateral decision.... we'll never know

regards

[woo me with science]

35. Thank you.

It is also worth highlighting that Obama’s defense is to point out he is not as bad as a communist dictator. That is not exactly a high bar.

[bvar22]

36. DURec for Snowden and the Whistle Blowers.

[font size=3]
Rampant Government Secrecy and Democracy can not co-exist.

Persecution of Whistle Blowers and Democracy can not co-exist.

Government surveillance of the citizenry and Democracy can not co-exist.

Secret Laws and Democracy can not co-exist.

Secret Courts and Democracy can not-co-exist.

Our Democracy depends on an informed electorate.

You either believe in Democracy,
or you don't.
It IS that simple.

[riderinthestorm]

37. K&R times 1000. nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

38. Snowden showed the world what the roaches at NSA are doing and Obama responded with band-aids.

And, we're supposed to accept that a little less of the arsenic is more palatable.