General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHi, my name is MadHound, and I use a (insert electronic device here) made in China.
I've watched with amusement as the Apple/Microsoft wars have gone to a new level. Instead of arguing the merits of one platform over another, the various posters are arguing about the merits of where their particular product is made.
Ummm, folks, I hate to break it to you, but any computer you are using now, and virtually any electronic device in your home, from cell phone to stereo to tv was made in China(unless you are like myself and have electronics that are so old they were made in the US). They were all made in sweatshop conditions, using abhorrent practices like prison labor, child labor, and so forth.
In fact, many, if not most products in the typical American household are made in China, under the same sort of working conditions. Which means that the vast majority of us are surrounded by products that represent the blood and tears of workers who are brutalized in order that we can buy goods cheap.
Welcome to the global economy.
So really now, to denigrate one product for being made under these conditions when the opposing product is made under the very same conditions is foolish, to say the least.
What we need to do is to bring market pressure to bear on the corporations who outsource to China, no matter who they are. Boycott them and raise public holy hell until they agree that the factories they control implement quality labor practices, or better yet, until these corporations bring their manufacturing back home.
Now if they do bring that manufacturing back home, the price on the product will rise. After all, it was the cost of labor that drove manufacturing from these shores. So are you willing to pay more for what you buy? I know I am. In fact I think it would be a great thing to bring manufacturing home. Better labor practices, and with increased prices perhaps people won't dispose of their old phones every eighteen months just to get the newest, latest thing. Perhaps they won't toss their computer every three years to get the latest whiz bang. Perhaps, with such goods costing more, we will become less of a disposable society in general.
And then, perhaps, we can put the focus of the Apple/MS wars back on the actual product.
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pschoeb
(1,066 posts)The ARM SOC, the main processor, in the N9 from Finland is from a fab in Germany as are many of the other components, the only major part from China is the battery.
It costs no more than the N9 that are made by Nokia for the Asian Market, which are made in China.
MadHound
(34,179 posts)Your clothes, your TV, what have you?
pschoeb
(1,066 posts)I buy US grown and woven organic cotton from Spiritex.
My TV is made in Korea.
My computer has a Supermicro Server motherboard made in the USA, the processor is made in Malaysia, the case is made by me out of Aluminum, My monitor is made in Korea.
My main means of transportation, my bicycle, the frame was made by my cousin and most of the components are USA, Britain, with only a small amount of Chinese parts.
My Furniture is mostly made by myself or other craftspersons I know.
My Stove and Refrigerator are made in the USA
MadHound
(34,179 posts)Perhaps. You admit that some of what you mentioned has Chinese made components. What about the other stuff you didn't mention? Various plastic items, things you don't know about?
But even if things are as you say, you're still an exception, certainly not the rule. And it sounds like a lot of your stuff, your clothes, furniture, etc., is not something than can be readily duplicated by others. Most people are craftspeople
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)
frazzled
(18,402 posts)and cut 4000 jobs in Europe and Mexico. Enjoy your Finnish phone while it lasts, because you won't get another one.
It's difficult to sugarcoat the impact of this decision on Nokia's workers, particularly those in its home nation of Finland who may have expected more, but the company is right to say that its competitiveness depends on shifting more of its operations to Asia. For one thing, all the component suppliers are now based in China, Taiwan or the surrounding nations, which Nokia explicitly identifies as a compelling reason to move more of its hardware operations to the region. Time to market, the thing Stephen Elop has been stressing since taking the Nokia helm, should improve with the company positioned closer to its parts suppliers, while there are added benefits to be reaped such as flexibility, economies of scale, and greater responsiveness. Cheaper labor costs aren't cited as a reason for this restructuring, but you have to figure Nokia wouldn't be going to all this trouble without it making financial sense
http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/8/2784183/nokia-device-assembly-asia-european-job-cuts
DJ13
(23,671 posts)Yep, they make those too.
You win the thread. 
Pholus
(4,062 posts)Remember to apply extra cleaner! 
freshwest
(53,661 posts)I was looking around my place the other day. While the things I have are mainly from 5 to 35 years of age, with few exceptions, I considered how many were manufactured in China:
Lamps, computer, VCR, TV, bookcase, desk, A/C, fans, chest of drawers, kitche appliances, iPod, external hard drives, cellphone, land line phone, shredder, mop bucket, books, picture frames, carry alls, shelving, clothes hangers, cutlery, dinnerware, utensils, soap dish, wall calendar, pots and pans, ceramic pots for plants and such supplies, etc., and the list goes on.
I didn't choose to buy Chinese and always sought American made if possible, and still do. But when I ordered a recliner years back from a store that said they were made in America, they soon said it was backordered and took time to manufacture. I thought it was made here. It turned out that was how long it took to get the Chinese to make the furniture and ship it. My kid's bedroom furniture was also from a store that claimed to be American made. It turned out it was made in China. And the stores are just waiting for whatever the next container ship brings in, and it really has little to do with consumer tastes or demand. They don't care.
If American companies hadn't sold out lock stock and barrel to the Chinese years ago, not only the rights to manufacture, but even the tool and dies and all the equipment was shipped to the Chinese. It may be part of trade agreements, it may just be corporate greed. Right now the USA is struggling to make anything. Obama went to Steve Jobs about getting Apple products all made here, was quoted as asking him,"What can we do to bring these jobs back here?"
Jobs is reported to have said, "Nothing. Those jobs are never coming back here."
I don't see this as evil on Job's part or as weakness on Obama's. The contracts that created the manufacturing base of China were signed years ago. I believe the same this is part of what is going on in the withdrawals from other countries. There are contracts and long-term agreements that were signed before Obama was on the scene.
Unfortunately, the planet appears to be run, not by the ideas of philosophers or well-meaning politicans, but businessmen. They have set the terms of the playing field for our world. The people that we elect to office are the middle man between us and them. Let's choose wisely.
Zalatix
(8,994 posts)sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)they would cost me more, but that cost would be reflected in higher taxes paid by employed people to run the schools and pave the roads. That income and those taxes would also reduce the crime rate and shift GDP spending from prisons to factories. The biggest benefit to higher costs would be that my kids would be less likely to break or to loose the damn stuff because I would honestly be able to say that if they did I couldn't afford to replace the shit. 
OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)it says my dual 1.8 ghz Apple G5 (that I received on election day, 2004) was made in USA. TechTool says my dual 2.16 ghz Macbook that I got in 2007 was made in China.
Pholus
(4,062 posts)Essentially you are repeating the Apple Party line on this. It's "unfair" that Apple be singled out for negative attention because everybody does it.
Of course, that is just a desire to continue the status quo. If everybody does it, nobody needs to change. But when public pressure is applied to a company with a carefully cultivated public image (the value of their brand) they miraculously managed to make some changes in a positive direction. See, isn't this the whole Kony 2012 thing? Kony puts a specific face on a broader issue. It's how we saw incremental changes in clothing when Nike wore the scarlet A and we saw some incremental improvements when Apple wore theirs.
Finally, let's put to bed the misperception that this is merely some Coke vs. Pepsi thing. I am brand agnostic as my cheap chinese crap comes to me free second hand as people who are more susceptible needing some incremental improvement to their electronics. My brand is stuff that otherwise would go to the landfill. So we appear to be in agreement on that at least.
What absolutely astonishes me is that there are *Apple* loyalists willing to baldly make Cheap Labor Conservative arguments to defend their favorite company which should simply be unacceptable to anyone who truly believes in the principles of the Democratic Party.
So, sorry to say, the product is not the focus of this argument.
harmonicon
(12,008 posts)I was going to post this as a reply to the OP, but maybe it fits better here.
I agree with the first half of the OP - and, I guess in part, disagree with you - but disagree with the second half.
It amazes me that the debate has become so skewed towards the political/economic right-wing that we're even discussing corporations. Seriously, do we really want to go around blaming corporations for how world markets operate? Changes in where and how products are developed and manufactured isn't due to corporate greed or some lack of magical "corporate responsibility," but due to how international trade is regulated.
By acting as if this all came down to corporate, rather than government, decisions is just buying into the right-wing, free-trade argument hook, line, and sinker.
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)...does come "down to corporate, rather than government, decisions."
harmonicon
(12,008 posts)I must have missed that one.
Skittles
(171,716 posts)no constitutional amendment necessary; just a complacent polulace
harmonicon
(12,008 posts)So, instead of taking responsibility ourselves for our representative government, we'll just do what free-market right-wingers want and put all of our trust into corporations to make decisions about how the world operates.
Pholus
(4,062 posts)I would argue that corporations, the government and international trade are interlinked and that corporations are the driver in a non positive direction. If this somehow buys into a right wing free trade argument I would counter that even a broken clock is right twice per day so it shouldn't be surprising that the right wing could make an intelligent statement on a single issue.
Sorry, but I have seen LITTLE benefit to our country from free trade in the sense you describe. We run huge trade deficits which drive us into debt, place our population into an underemployment situation and transform our society from doers and builders into people who sell stuff. I am old enough to remember the initial outrage about outsourcing and the corporate PR blitz that claimed when the grunge jobs move overseas we were all magically going to turn into white collar jobs and become "the information society". That prediction didn't come true on a scale sufficient to be a net benefit to our country. I find the ability to buy a $0.99 piece of plastic crap at the local Walmart to not be worth the mom-and-pop shops forced out of business to make it happen -- I knew those people and I think their lives are worse off now.
When government tries to regulate international trade in a vacuum, those decisions would tend to be initially made with the national interest at heart. If these decisions impede the goal of a corporation, which is to provide a return on an investment, a conflict is formed. At that point, corporations can exert money through proxies to try to buy a more sympathetic government through bribes or campaign contributions. So, I think I've isolated the fundamental player in our current woes and it is the corporation and it's quest for maximizing returns in the short term.
harmonicon
(12,008 posts)The thing is that it's ALWAYS been that way. Manufacturing jobs didn't used to exist in the US because the people running the corporations were some sort of lovers of the working man. Conditions existed which made it profitable for them to do so. Henry Ford would have fired every one of his employees and had his cars manufactured in China if it would have maximized his profits to do so.
We are not going to change how corporations operate, because they function within a capitalist system which is far stronger than any participant in it. You cannot compete with capitalism. What we can do is influence our government which regulates capitalism. I agree that corporations have undue influence in that system, but we at least have some influence there.
I do my fair bit of blaming people for cutting their own throats when they shop at Walmart, but blaming the consumer is really just blaming the victim. We're born into this capitalist system and have to live in it. This isn't to say that corporations and consumers can't take on any responsibility - we can, but all of that will just be after the fact.
What we can do is vote. Our constitution - at least in part - is still in effect. So long as we keep rolling over and voting for the lesser of two evils (even worse is the shit I see on here about people voting in primaries for someone who is "electable" we are not participating in this system as designed, and we will not make a change.
Pholus
(4,062 posts)
OrwellwasRight
(5,312 posts)Ford was the first to pay factory workers a "living wage." His employees made $5 a day (a very generous wage at the time). When his fellow captains of industry mocked him and said he'd run himself out of business soon, he said no, I am creating a market for my goods. I want my workers to be able to afford the goods they make. He successfully expanded his own market. Had he moved his factory offshore and paid Chinese worker 3 pennies a day, he would not have grown his own market (and maybe this country would not have devolved into the car culture we have today, but that is another story). What I am saying is that today's corporations are part of the cause of the global dearth of demand--focusing on the profits for the next three months is skewing decision making for the worse. And some companies at some points in history were more farsighted.
harmonicon
(12,008 posts)Ford didn't pay his workers more because he was a great guy. He paid them more so that he could sell more and make a greater profit. He was both a genius and an evil-genius. He was just doing what he needed to do to sell more money and make more cars - that's the same thing that modern corporations do.
That was part of the beginning of what Debord termed the "society of the spectacle," where-in products like cars, which should be superfluous to a person's needs, take on the role of a commodity which everyone needs.
OrwellwasRight
(5,312 posts)I agree with what you said above, but in the post I originally responded to, you said Henry Ford would have moved all of his production to China if it would have maximized his profits -- and that I disagree with.
If China had been economically developed enough at the time we are talking about (turn of the century) to be capable of pumping out Model-Ts (as they do now with iPhones, etc.), Henry Ford would most assuredly have maximized his profits by moving to there and minimizing his cost for labor--but only in the short run because his moves would not have helped create a market for his goods and helled increased sales. Had he had venture capitalists running his board at the time, they probably would have taken that short term view and forced him to move production overseas. Howevr, since he did not at the time have to answer to investors looking for next quarter's profits, he was able to take a different strategy, with better long term profits. That's one of the differences between short-term and long-term profit maximization. The market incentives of US corporations are to maximize short-term profits. And that is just one of many problems with our economy.
And I agree with all that stuff about the damage done by turning cars into a "necessity," but as I said, that is a different question than the question of what choices a company made about how to remunerate its employees. Frankly, I think the world would be better off if all employers made it a point to ensure that their employees were paid enough to generate demand. That is one of the problems right now -- a global dearth of demand. Sure, it is great for reducing "consumerism," but not great for a world economy built on such consumerism.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Not the ones I looked at that my dogs would want, anyway. I was concerned about the lead.
I was window shopping at Banana Republic, a very expensive clothing store, and I noticed everything had a "made in china" tag. Consider that a simple cotton/spandex t-shirt was $80, and I realized the huge markup. Same thing with other stores.
It's out of our control, now. It's impossible to function normally in our society w/o supporting China.
Jennicut
(25,415 posts)My daughters love dolls. I did find some cloth ones made in Germany but that was about it.
Pholus
(4,062 posts)I guess I could curl up in a ball, covered in my $80 T-shirt, and say that it's okay to buy this crap because there is no alternative. But I'm stubborn that way.
If some company is going to try to profit by exploiting cheap labor, at the very least as a consumer I can say screw you I won't buy at your mark-up. Today's $80 T-shirt is tomorrow's $5 clearance rack item if it doesn't sell. And if it doesn't sell even then, the likelihood of future exploitation goes down by just that much.
One way to return sanity is to live like our parents and grandparents did:
Use it up, wear it out, make do or do without.
Will I change the world? Probably not. Will I feel a bit better about myself? Absolutely.
2ndAmForComputers
(3,527 posts)OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)why can't we buy electronics certified "ethical labor" (or some similar phrase)?
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)The price on an Apple product will in fact not rise, as they charge 3-6 times the cost to make the things. I can easily envision producing Apple products here, the profits would, however, be meager at best.
Apple, MS, all these large corporations are destined to fail and be an ancient memory in only a few decades. Technological development is moving at such a pace as to render such corporations moot. It's going to be an amazing day when we can buy an Open Hardware based device running Linux or some other FOSS operating system that has visual fidelity of reality, and is as big as a pocket watch. For half the cost of these crappy dirty screen tablets that everyone is fawning over at this point.
obxhead
(8,434 posts)is that the Apple Chinese shit is 3 or 4 times the cost of the MS Chinese shit.
Apple is even using the same damn processors in their devices.
It is all generally imported from the same place. Why does Apple choose to charge 3 or 4 times more for their products though? It's not the components. It's the image associated with the name.
MADem
(135,425 posts)There was a bit on the news the other day, with people sleeping out to buy the latest iCrap (at first I thought it was an Occupy story so I paid attention) and they interviewed these idiots about why they wanted the latest gadget. No one--not one single solitary person-- said anything about the performance of the thing--they said "It's cool," or "It's new" or "I always like to get the latest thing from Apple." They sounded like a bunch of eleven year olds. Pathetic!
MadHound
(34,179 posts)However I've been using Mac computers for well over twenty years. In that time I've bought three Macs for daily use. The first Mac I bought was a Mac 128k, the Mac from the "1984" TV ad. It fit my needs well, and still works as a matter of fact. I used it heavily for nine years until I bought a Power Mac 6100 in 1993. That Power Mac still works, and I would be using it still except for the fact that web designers saw faster transfer speeds, and thus felt enabled to make bloated web pages, making it difficult for me to surf the web. So nine years ago I bought my current eMac, which, after nine years, is still going strong.
That's why I buy Mac computers, they are reliable, they don't break down, I have hardly any down time due to viruses and crashes, and since they do last so long, I'm not throwing more electronic trash into the environment. Plus, I'd rather pay two thousand for a computer that lasts nine-ten years plus than pay a thousand for a new computer every three years.
There are solid reasons to buy Macs, which is why the company built a loyal base.
MADem
(135,425 posts)If you like the stuff, good for you. I really don't care what people buy. I'm cheap and make things last forever. I also am slow to pick up on new stuff--the last with the least. I sometimes skip entire iterations of technology because I let my old stuff carry me. I'm the only person on my block, probably, who still has a shitload of CRT televisions that work just fine and will keep on working until they don't--and then I will replace them. Not before!
I am only reporting on the mindless commentary I heard on the news. It really was .... dumb. No nice way to put it. It sounded like dialogue from FUTERAMA or the SIMPSONS or something...."I'm doing it because everyone else is doing it!" "Gee, I think they're swell because everyone else thinks they're swell!" "I always have to have the latest things!" "Mmmmmmmmmm....Apple!"
I'm not joking, either--wish I were. It was an eye-rolling-dumb segment, and I do think the reporter tried like hell to get an intelligent reply...and failed.
madinmaryland
(65,729 posts)MadHound
(34,179 posts)Really, running out of other insults?
I see that you're still up to your same old shit, if you can't discuss the merits you throw the personal insult.
Stay classy there.
madinmaryland
(65,729 posts)you are one who sits in line waiting for the lasted Ithingy?
jeff47
(26,549 posts)I'm really not sure what you're upset about here.
Are you fuming in rage that Cadillac sells the same car for more than Buick?
obxhead
(8,434 posts)I simply think Apple sells a product at a "made in America" price, but it's the same built in China cheap as MS based stuff available.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Put a "Cadillac" badge on a Chevy and you get to sell it for $10k more. It's the same thing.
And I'd have to disagree with you that it's the same. Apple's closed platform does result in a far more reliable system for normal end-users since they don't have to support the really, really bad Chinese hardware. Whereas MS and Android have to deal with whatever gets shoveled over to this side of the Pacific. If you'd like, I'll bore you with stories such as crates and crates of Ethernet cards with the same MAC address.
Last edited Mon Mar 19, 2012, 06:22 AM - Edit history (2)
Your shit stinks less than mine.
Initech
(108,783 posts)The answer: it goes to the pocket books of our CEOs, that's where. You think if manufacturing were brought back here you think that would change? Hell no!
This thing about all the costs being so high - that shit is all made up, and it's to benefit the
elite and the elite only. Until that changes nothing else will. My brother once asked an econ major what the value of a dollar was - couldn't be done.
judesedit
(4,592 posts)I'd gladly pay more.
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)Since they will have the most to lose and bringing change to them will pave the way for the rest.
What *I* find funny is how evil Microsoft used to be portrayed and when Apple gets big suddenly people say 'look over there, others are doing it too!'
Back then the apple fanboys pointed Microsoft's dominance as a reason to attack them. Hell, here on DU it is ok to attack groups in ways you wouldn't others because of their dominance in society.
But for some reason, folks like to defend apple...
GeorgeGist
(25,570 posts)something rude to you. But I'll say phuck Apple.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)They act like they are so enlightened, but in reality they are mindless consumerist zombies just like %99.9 of everyone else in the developed world. They are a symbol of the commercialization of counter-cultural memes, the great consumerist Moloch consumes all, even assimilating rebellion against it as another commodity to sell (think Che shirts).
LiberalLovinLug
(14,689 posts)I am always a little baffled and a little insulted when I hear there is some kind of cult mentality for Apple.
People appreciate quality. They appreciate not only the aesthetically pleasing simple outward design, but the stable Unix based system that runs on it that helps you get more work done, and most importantly the solid reliable hardware components that are standard no matter what Apple store you buy from. There is no quality low end to high end like in the PC world, its just a matter of how much processing power you need.
I find that many critical of Apple products can't get past that they look so refined in their outward design. They are usually ahead of the curve there. I can only guess that for some the old addage of "if it looks to good to be true....." applies here. That if Apple spends so much time on the outward design, it must mean they are overcompensating for the inside.
But I and many other Apple users will tell you that its how stable and well thought out their systems are that draw us to them. I never buy brand name clothing. I don't go out of my way to buy brand name anything. I am cheap that way. Quality though is a big issue. Apple products are a good deal for the price. It may be hard to accept that, but that is the reason I and others choose to save our pennies a little longer in order to buy an Apple computer. They are a lot of bang for the buck. They do not crash or are subject to viruses, or maleware. They last incredibly long and retain their performance levels, through system upgrades.
If Apple has a cult following then its a type of cult following that another apple loving product has...The Beatles. You could say people that love their music are hypnotized by a cult, or you could say that they are just people who appreciate well made music. The Beatles were one of those bands that you could buy an album for one song, and know that you'd get your moneys worth because they put the same creative energy into every song on the album. That's what made the expense of the album worth it. Its the same with Apple. I've been using their products since the mid eighties.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Rationalizing buying overpriced consumerist junk, and pulling the factually false "immune to viruses" gospel of the Apple cult
My Compaq is 2 years old and has not crashed once. It cost less than an iPad.
Comparing Apple to the Beatles is an insult to the Beatles.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,689 posts)"comsumerist junk"?
I've been using Macs for 25 years and have never had a virus. Neither have anyone else I know with a Mac. And now the Unix hardwired system makes it nearly impossible. And those maleware, or adware that occasionally I download accidentally? They all end with .exe and have no way of attaching to a Mac. I have used both platforms for work. Have you? I don't have to constantly close all those paranoid windows saying things like "are you sure you want to do this?" I get so much more work done on a Mac. That is what is important to me in the long run.
I'd give you a pass if you just said you couldn't afford to pay more than $300 for a new computer. But to deny the quality difference is laughable.
And if Lennon were alive I'm sure he'd agree that Apple products are more popular than Jesus.....just like the Beatles!
OVERPAID01
(71 posts)My stuff is made in taiwan...oh wait, the label is printed in taiwan, the product itself is from china...maybe paper is scarce in china?
MADem
(135,425 posts)It's the China that doesn't want to be absorbed by "red" China.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_China
The Republic of China (ROC), commonly known as Taiwan (see below), is a unitary sovereign state located in East Asia.[18] Originally based in mainland China, the Republic of China currently governs the island of Taiwan (known in the past as Formosa), which forms over 99% of its current territory,[19] as well as Penghu, Kinmen, Matsu and other minor islands. Neighboring states include the People's Republic of China (PRC) to the west, Japan to the east and northeast, and the Philippines to the south. Taipei is the capital city and also the economic and cultural centre of the country .[1]
The Republic of China, established in mainland China in 1912, governed most of mainland China prior to the outbreak of the civil war, then received Taiwan and associated islands from the Surrender of Japan at the end of World War II in late 1945. However, the ROC lost its mainland territory in the Chinese Civil War to Communist forces who founded the People's Republic of China (PRC) on that territory in 1949, and the ROC relocated its government to the island of Taiwan, which composes most of its current territory. The ROC government officially claims to represent all of "China" (in a definition including Taiwan) via its constitution, but, in practice, has ceased to actively pursue this stance since 1992.[20] Meanwhile, the People's Republic of China (PRC), simply known as "China", also officially asserts to be the sole legal representation of China, and actively claims that both mainland China and Taiwan should be under its sovereignty, denying the status of the existing Republic of China as a sovereign state.
The Republic of China is a multi-party democracy that has a presidential system and universal suffrage. It experienced rapid economic growth, industrialization, and democratization on Taiwan during the latter half of the 20th century. Despite its controversial political status, the ROC is an industrialized advanced economy. It is one of the Four Asian Tigers and a member of the WTO and APEC. The 19th-largest economy in the world,[21][22] its advanced technology industry plays a key role in the global economy. The ROC is ranked highly in terms of freedom of the press, health care,[23] public education, economic freedom, and human development.[15][16][24]
Left Coast2020
(2,397 posts)Haven't we tried that before? And one other thing on products claiming to be made here--especially textiles.
I briefly worked in Saipan back in 2001--which is in Pacific near Guam. I went with someone to hotel directly across street from Tommy Hilfinger/Gap sweatshop. They can claim its made in U.S. because its a "U.S. territory." They still pay crappy wages to underage girls. Its the same island that Abemorff--however its spelled-- and Tom Delay were doing all that lobby stuff. If you don't believe me, take a trip to Saipan and book room at "Pacific Island Club".
My point is that if there is any pressure to "a corporation" to stop producing electronics in China, then it has to be a movement. It would be nice if we could produce computers and phones. But I feel electronics are gone. But I've been wrong before. Thats how I see it.
harmonicon
(12,008 posts)People lash out at anything and everything to explain to themselves why the US has fallen behind the first world, without trying to come to terms with the thing they're lashing out against. It is government - the US and other - policy that is at work, causing these changes, but, for whatever reason, that's too hard for some people to bear.
Mimosa
(9,131 posts)No matter what the cost difference may be don't buy cosmetics made in China.
BiggJawn
(23,051 posts)Ten-Tec 550, Elecraft K-2 (not only Made in Murrika, but built on my kitchen table), Some Heathkit stuff, some Hallicrafters stuff, a Zenith "Transoceanic", a Regency scanner (Made in Indianapolis), and old Bearcat scanner (made in Cumberland, IN), a National NC-183, some RCA radios made when we were pissed at the Japanese and they controlled China...
The Yaesu stuff is made in Japan and the Sarkes Tarzian FM set was made in Bloomington, IN.
All the computer stuff, regrettably, is Chinese. Desktops, tablets, etc...
MadHound
(34,179 posts)I've got several myself, including an old Hallicrafter, RCA's, Motorola, Zenith's etc.
But it is a hell of a time finding vacuum tubes these days.
BiggJawn
(23,051 posts)www.tubesandmore.com
They have pretty much everything in the world except those 1st LO tubes for the Transoceanic.
excuse not to write
(147 posts)But I'd really rather not insert anything. 
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)at least assembling in the U.S. They are in Michigan- Element Tv's. Also high end Stereo are made in the U.S.
MADem
(135,425 posts)shcrane71
(1,721 posts)that will lift the boats of all Chinese electronics production workers. Let's just take Apple, if they were to give up $64 per unit (keep in mind that they make $400 profit per iPhone) that would help alleviate the poor working conditions. Consumers would buy MORE Apple products because they wouldn't want to be seen with sweatshop electronics. Other electronic suppliers would then have to adopt the Apple standards of working conditions in order to be competitive.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Most shareholders only care about next quarters prophets because they are not holding onto the stock for long.
shcrane71
(1,721 posts)unfair labor practices, shareholders will change their tune. I don't foresee that happening with Apple now.
It's as if Ira Glass handed Apple a great boon for maintaining their outrageous profit margins per unit. How so very fortunate for Apple.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)OrwellwasRight
(5,312 posts)Just like the anti-sweatshop movement started with Nike and spread from there. People don't have the "love" for their Samsungs, HPs, and Dells that they do their Apple products, so you have to start there. You can read more here:
http://goodelectronics.org/
Canuckistanian
(42,290 posts)Then maybe, just maybe things could get changed.
"A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."
*Margaret Mead
OrwellwasRight
(5,312 posts).99center
(1,237 posts)MS is almost exclusively in the software business, they don't make PC's, phone's, or tablet's. It's a Apple vs everyone not hip enough to get it. "After all, it was the cost of labor that drove manufacturing from these shores. So are you willing to pay more for what you buy?" Most of the PC manufacture's and other manufacture's "drove" them selves off shore at their economic heights because of pure greed not because they had to keep afloat. And how much more can Apple charge, they charge enough now to bring job's here.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)It is about the relationships between African-American maids and their Southern white employers in the early 1960s.
It describes the economic system that enabled white Southerners who were financially comfortable to profit and otherwise benefit from segregation, Jim Crow, separate an equal and all the other euphemisms for exploitation of a minority.
Using the excuse of freed trade, the very wealthy elite around the world is trying to bring back that economic system. We do not have to have free trade. We could end or better yet modify some of the trade deals that make it so cheap to exploit foreign workers. Yes, prices would rise here, but so would wages and, and, as you say, the quality of goods.
If we modified our trade agreements to protect our markets to the point that we did not have so much joblessness and underemployment (people doing jobs for which they are overqualified), we could still help develop foreign industry and avoid turning ourselves into just another pool of maids, virtual slaves, for the very rich.
If we modified our trade agreements, we could encourage young Americans to learn trades, to become engineers and at least to learn to make things and do things.
A rarely mentioned effect of the current obsession with free trade is the fact that Americans don't know HOW to make telephones or computers, etc. We don't even understand what goes into making things like fabric or toasters or washing machines any more. Our children do not think about these practical things because they are useless since there are no jobs making washing machines, fabric or toasters.
Of course, if we want to modify our trade agreements, we have to learn to live more frugally and more creatively. Well, that is, we would have to learn to live more frugally and more creatively now rather than be forced to tighten our belts and live at the standard of those who live in the third world in a few years.
johnd83
(593 posts)Most things are assembled in China, but the components are not all made there. A lot of computer chips are made in the US, Korea, or another country. I think (not 100% sure) that the CPU for the xBox and the CPU for the Playstation are made in the US. So we ship the chips over there to be assembled and then ship them back. Makes sense, doesn't it?
Javaman
(65,711 posts)Made in China.
It embossed with a United States of America on the front, but the little tag on the back, made in china.
isn't is sad that even that is made in china?
Tikki
(15,140 posts)Which means many things in my possession were made in North America.
Tikki