I Love Abortion: Implying Otherwise Accomplishes Nothing for Women's Rights

[cynatnite]

<--->

However, there is no need to suggest that abortion be rare. To say so implies a value judgement, promoting the idea that abortion is somehow distasteful or immoral and should be avoided. Even with affordable, accessible birth control, there will be user errors, condoms that break, moments of spontaneity. The best contraceptive access in the world won't change the fact that we are merely human and imperfect in our routines. The best access in the world also won't change the fact that some women are raped, while others find that even wanted pregnancies sometimes need to be terminated for the woman's well-being or to avoid birthing a child with painful or unmanageable disabilities. Women who find themselves facing any of these situations shouldn't feel guilty for failing to keep the numbers low.

<--->

Nevertheless, even in the face of such (hypothetical) strides, we must remember that extenuating circumstances like health, contraceptive failure, and rape mean that abortion will always be a normal, necessary, and reasonable choice for many women. As such, we must avoid stigmatizing it in any way. No woman benefits from even the vaguest insinuation that abortion is an immoral or objectionable option. That's the weak argument made by misogynistic, forced-birth advocates, and it has no place in a dialogue about reproductive freedom. Terminating a pregnancy is not an unethical act, yet suggesting that abortion should be rare implies that there is something undesirable about having one.

Similarly, I've heard reproductive rights activists claim that “no one likes abortion,” in an attempt to find common ground with anti-choicers. While it may be true that no one likes the physical act of having an abortion (any more than she may like her yearly mammogram, life-saving chemotherapy, or temporarily uncomfortable dental surgery), a great many women like abortion itself. They like knowing that an unwanted pregnancy does not have to yield an unwanted child. They like knowing that their mental and physical health take precedence over an embryo. They like knowing that they own their bodies. Many medical procedures are physically unpleasant, but that doesn't lessen how grateful we are to have them available when we need them.

Suggesting that abortion be “safe, legal, and rare,” and crowing that “no one likes abortion,” accomplishes nothing for women's rights. Pandering to the anti-choice movement by implying that we all find termination distasteful only fuels the fire against it. What good is common ground if it must be achieved at the expense of women who have had or will have abortions? Those women need advocates like us more than we need support from anti-abortionists. Rather than trying to cozy up to the forced-birth camp, women who value their freedom should be proud to say that they like abortion. In fact, they should venerate it whole-heartedly. Abortion is our last refuge, the one final, definitive instrument that secures our bodily autonomy. What's not to love?

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/article/2012/03/14/choice-words-about-abortion-0

She is right.

[Brickbat]

1. I disagree. Invasive medical procedures that come with the risk of infection when done improperly

should be rare. It has nothing to do with morals.

[cynatnite]

2. Invasive medical procedures are not rare at all and they are usually done properly. n/t

[Brickbat]

3. Also true.

[CTyankee]

56. Safe, legal first trimester abortions are safer than childbirth for a woman.

So if you boil it down to the safety issue between the two, pregnancy and birth is less safe, even tho normally non-invasive.

[Brickbat]

58. Yep.

I wasn't comparing the two, but it's good to have that out there.

[CTyankee]

61. The point is that, in terms their relative safety for the woman we are basically arguing abortion

versus pregnancy/birth. You only need an abortion if you are pregnant...

[EFerrari]

4. Yes, she is right.

[hifiguy]

71. I agree with you. nt

[EFerrari]

5. The phrase should be "safe, legal and accessible".

Because in no case should such an important health measure be pushed into the margins of "rarity" along with unicorns and hens' teeth.

[DonCoquixote]

6. Or how about

Safe, legal, and available to those that need it. Anything we can do to dumb it down for the sheep id needed (no sarcasm flag, because we do need to dumb it down.)

[Honeycombe8]

7. You have a right to your view. But I couldn't disagree more.

People who are pro-choice don't say that "abortion should be rare" because they're trying to appease pro-lifers. They truly believe that abortion should be rare. To give their words some intent that you think they mean, by reading their minds, is insulting to their point of view.

As a woman and feminist, I say that abortion is not just a medical procedure. Most women grow up assuming, maybe hoping, that they will have children one day. When many women get pregnant, there is an emotional reaction to that news at a gut level that is unlike hearing "you have a slow growing benign tumor that needs removal."

Then there is also the issue of the man involved. Sometimes the woman is deserted upon hearing the pregnancy news, and that is the reason for the abortion. Or maybe the man pushes her to get an abortion. Or perhaps the parents want the problem to go away (via abortion).

So there are thousands of years of biology mixed in with the reaction to the pregnancy, the biological urge to have babies or protect the fetus, plus the current emotional turmoil because of the circumstances and other people involved. Then there is the lasting memory of the solution to the problem. For some women, no problem. But for others, they have a problem with that in the future. And for a few, they may realize that that was their only chance to have a child, and knowing that, would they do that again.

It's a complicated matter for many women. It's not just a medical procedure to be used in lieu of birth control pills. The procedure itself (a D&C) is painful, as well, and may scrape her out so good that she can never have children.

Abortion should be up to the woman who has to carry the child. It's her body. But it downplays the seriousness of the situation for the women involved to treat it so offhandedly and to say that it's okay for it to be a common occurrence for any woman. If it is, I think it's an indication that there is something psychological at play there. It's a serious decision not to be taken lightly. She should be told of what could happen. She should be helped, if abortion is not her preferred way to go (there is no help for women in small cities & rural areas). She should be asked if the decision made is truly hers and hers alone (I knew a young woman who was coerced into getting an abortion). It's serious. There are consequences. But if she wants one, she has that choice.

Let's not pretend it's like a slow growing benign tumor.

[REP]

9. Such a cornucopia of errors, one hardly knows where to begin

Let's start with "{t}he procedure itself (a D&C)..." No, it isn't. Most early abortions are either done by suction curretage, which is not the same thing as a D&C; or are 'medical abortions,' which are performed by taking prescribed medicine.

"is painful, as well..." So is pregnancy, labor and childbirth. I'm guessing an abortion hurts a lot less and deosn't take as long.

"....and may scrape her out so good that she can never have children." Amusing grammar aside, it seems you are confusing an endometrial ablation with an early term abortion. That's all right. A lot of those who want to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt about, well anything, will spread tales of horror like that.

As far as ASSuming any woman who could have an abortion might be crazy, let me set your mind at ease. There have been numerous studeis done on this, and, no, women who have abortions aren't crazy and don't go crazy after having one. Since you say you're a woman and a feminist, I know you'll be glad to know that none of these peer-reviewed scientific studies bear out your judgement of other women.

[Honeycombe8]

15. Oh, my dear. You are out of your league here when discussing abortions with me.

I have been pregnant 7 times. I don't have any children. I'm well acqainted with how abortions are performed. They don't give you some magic pill and POOF, it's done.

You said, "As far as ASSuming any woman who could have an abortion might be crazy, let me set your mind at ease." Please read my post again. I didn't say what you seem to think I said. I said if a woman has multiple abortions, it might be that there is a psychological issue at play. I stand by that statement. It MIGHT be, mightn't it? Of course it could. And it probably is. Women typically don't keep making the same mistake again and again, unless there's a reason for repeatedly getting pregnant when you think you don't want to be.

I speak from experience. Mine and others.

Getting an abortion is not like having a benign slow growing tumor removed. You're HAPPY when you have a tumor removed. I don't know of any woman who has been HAPPY she just had to have an abortion.

Grow up. There's biology at play here. We are women. There's a biological urge for many women to have children and protect fetuses.

Abortions SHOULD be rare, well considered, and all options considered. Telling young women "no problem" go ahead and have multiple abortions...no problem, is doing no service to anyone.

Take your smarmy attitude and stick it up your "ASSuming any woman who could have an abortion might be crazy" to quote you again.

And BTW, there's nothing grammatically wrong with "and may scrape her out so good that she can never have children." English major here.

[EFerrari]

18. No, REP is right. You did insinuate women that need abortion need counseling

and your grammar is faulty.

[Honeycombe8]

24. No, I didn't. Maybe you and she should take reading lessons.

I didn't "insinuate" anything of the sort, any more than someone who says "abortion should be rare" doesn't really mean it, s/he's just appeasing pro-lifers. Once again, you're trying to bend what others say to fit the picture you're trying to paint.

And no, there was nothing wrong with my grammar for an internet forum. We're not writing term papers here. This is not what is known as formal writing. You'll have to trust me on this. I wasn't just an English major. I took advanced grammar and composition courses, and not only made an A in all of them. I made a perfect score on every single test (essay tests), including the finals.

You can argue all you want. But so far, you're not winning any points on the substance of what I said. So you're attacking the author personally. I won't alert you, though, even though that's against the rules. Unlike that other poster, I'm not out to attack other posters or cause problems. Just stating my opinion.

My, how upset you get, when someone speaks from personal experience, and it doesn't go along with the rosy story you're trying to paint.

Actually, I thought you'd pick up on my use of "mightn't it." Funny you missed that. That WAS intended to be amusing because....well, I'll let you figure that one out.

Face it, women. Abortion is a painful experience for many women, in more ways than one. For that reason alone, the goal should be for it to be a rarity. Bully for you, if you had no problem with it, when you had your multiple abortions. Speaking of rarities.

[cynatnite]

28. But should a woman feel shame and guilt for having an abortion or even more than one?

There is a stigma associated with it and women are made to feel as if they are in the wrong or are somehow failures for having made that decision.

I don't think it's a simple medical procedure and there is an emotional component for many women, but we are made to feel such shame and guilt that I agree with the author that it hinders our ability to have access.

The transvaginal exams are there for a reason. It's to continue the shame and guilt a woman has to endure and they're made a failure as well.

[emilyg]

29. Thank you.

[cynatnite]

32. As one who has a uterus, a reproductive history, and worked in an OBGYN clinic...

You do not speak for me. Do not assume you know my mind or my heart as well as anyone else's. It's condescending and insulting.

[REP]

33. The thief thinks everyone steals

You claim to have had multiple abortions, and therefore, you know how every woman who has had more than one abortion feels. You are not every woman. Please. I'll take you at your word that you have psychological issues, but that does not prove that every - or any other - woman who has had "multiple abortions" has psychological issues.

No, it's not a single pill, nor is it is D&C - goodness gracious me, as many many abortions as you've had, surely you paid attention through at least one informed consent? They actually do explain the procedure in great detail. D&Cs are not done anymore - not for an early elective termination. After a missed spontaneous abortion, yes.

Are you sure you know what 'benign' means? Here's a hint: it doesn't fuck up your life. A benign growth or an unwanted pregnancy .... gee, tough choice. Oh wait, no it isn't. Dematofibroma, please.

I'd tell you where to stick your lack of information but I'd have to draw you a map and hand you a flashlight.

[ecstatic]

47. +1000 nt

[uppityperson]

65. I don't know of any woman who has been HAPPY she just had to have an appendectomy either. I DO know

women who were very happy to have access to safe legal hygienic abortion and safe legal hygienic appendectomy.

Abortions should be as accessible as needed. As rare as needed. Same as appendectomies.

I am confused about part of what you write. You wrote:
I didn't say what you seem to think I said. I said if a woman has multiple abortions, it might be that there is a psychological issue at play. I stand by that statement. It MIGHT be, mightn't it? Of course it could. And it probably is. Women typically don't keep making the same mistake again and again, unless there's a reason for repeatedly getting pregnant when you think you don't want to be.

yet you talk about yourself having had multiple abortions. I am confused as to if you including yourself in that bit then.

Of course if a woman does anything, it might be there is a psychological issue at play. If she buys shoes. If she drinks coffee every day. If she never gets her teeth cleaned.

That word "might" is a powerful qualifier, since one could write anything and if called on it, say "oh, I said 'might'".

[EFerrari]

12. Why don't "let's" speak for yourself.

You may be conflicted 500 ways about the contents of your uterus. Don't lay that on other women, thanks.

[Honeycombe8]

26. No need to attack the poster. Just state your opinion on the subject matter, please.

Thank you.

Please understand that not everyone is going to think just like you do. I know it's hard to take that personal experiences (mine and others) may interfere with some theory you have. But just agree to disagree, and let it go at that.

It's hard. But necessary to do, when you become an adult.

[cynatnite]

14. She is trying to strip away the shame that is associated with abortion...

Women should not feel the shame of having one. As women, we know there is an emotional component associated because of the reality of the procedure, but should we feel guilty as if we should never had one in the first place? I think this is what she is getting at.

Having an abortion implies that we women are at fault. That we did something wrong. She is saying, I think, that we should not have to feel that way. We should not be in the position of feeling that way.

This is why I agree with her.

[Honeycombe8]

30. "I love abortion" does not mean "Women should not feel the shame of having" an abortion.

She goes on to state that it's wrong for people to say it should be rare. Of COURSE it should be rare for any young woman, if someone cares about that woman. Of course, if you don't care about people and you just want to promote an agenda, that is another matter.

I have known women who have had abortions and have been in that position myself. Being pro-choice is more than theory to me. And I care about women who find themselves in the position of having to make that decision (or, as if often the case with YOUNG women, having it made for them). To me, it's more than an agenda.

No, there should not be guilt for making a serious decision after consideration and doing what you think is best at that time. It doesn't do the "agenda" any good, either, by pretending it's the same as a root canal and whoopee, aren't abortions great. That's really not the attitude that I've encountered, or read about, with women who were faced with that decision. Every single one was solemn. Most were sad. It's not a happy time in their lives. It's pretty traumatic, actually, for a lot of women. Not like a root canal at all.

[cynatnite]

31. You're preaching to the choir when it comes to how a woman reacts to the decision...

The shame, the guilt, and the failure plays to the RW, IMO, and gives them cause to further limit women's access. That's the point.

How many abortions does one have for it to constitute as rare? Do you have a number as to what you think is "multiple"?

It's the stigma that hinders us as women.

I'm speaking of personal experience as well.

[ecstatic]

48. I don't think so

Telling the truth doesn't empowerer the RW. If anything, it lends more credibility to our side. We should never bend or try to hide facts to get a point across. The RW will not win on this issue--the American people have been clear on this issue--we want choice. It's now up to us to go to the polls and make sure a few far right fundies don't turn back the clock (which they've already done in several states).

How many people shouting and acting holier than thou on this thread are advocating for third parties and other nonsense while women's rights hang in the balance?

[Daemonaquila]

22. You sure as hell don't speak for me.

As a woman and a feminist, I say that abortion is of no more consequence than a root canal, except that after an abortion there's reason to celebrate. Just as many of us have absolutely no baggage about getting rid of an unwanted fetus.

It is not "a serious decision not to be taken lightly" - not unless a woman is an open or closeted pro-lifer. It is a safe, routine medical procedure like so many others a woman will have throughout her life. Having a baby? Yes, THAT is serious. It's at least 18 years serious, assuming a woman makes it through childbirth in one piece. An abortion is a walk in the park, far safer, and removes unwanted complications.

Viva abortion, +1000 for the OP.

[Nye Bevan]

25. I would like everyone to brush and floss regularly, so that root canals are rare.

Just as I would like contraception to be free and easily accessible, so that abortions are rare.

I like your analogy.

[Honeycombe8]

27. Well, when I was sitting in the waiting room all those times....

discussing this with other women, everyone felt the same way. That way was not that they were going to have a root canal. Not one of them was smiling or waiting for a simple medical procedure.

You are unusual if you thought of the two things the same way, when you had those multiple abortions. You would've been the only happy person there, and the only one to say "abortions are great, aren't they? I think I'll do this again next year!"

[easttexaslefty]

53. Exactly

In fact, I was given liquid Valium immediately before the second procedure, due to my distress. The fact that it was available, shows that sometimes it's necessary. As I said, I'm still STRONGLY pro-choice. But it's not a walk in the park for everybody.

[moriah]

67. I was lucky, I could afford IV sedation.

The doctor's office was right next door to a major hospital, too. No protesters, he took care of obstetric patients at the same office. He could tell I'd made my decision long before arriving at his office, and I was able to get it done the same day I came without a waiting period (causing more missed work than necessary). Since I was sedated, I was told there would be an ultrasound involved to verify my anatomy, but it wasn't even asked of me if I wanted to see it first -- it was done *after* I was out and for a medical reason. No state mandated counseling. My abortion was the best I think one could ever be. I wish everyone could have had that kind of experience without having to have been lucky enough to be able to afford that level of service and for it to be available in my area.... and think that the indignities state law did not place on me to get a medical procedure shouldn't be a matter of luck either.

I would still never wish the need to have the procedure on anyone. Because while my abortion was as good as one could possibly be, unintended pregnancy is decisively unpleasant. I'm also fond of understatement.

[moriah]

66. Ever had a root canal?

Since I've had both, I can say that there are adequate comparisons.

Root canals are painful as hell while they happen (and for some people the intrusion can be psychologically disturbing) unless you pay more to have anesthesia... and pay even more for anesthesia that will make you less aware of what is happening. No, not for everyone, but traumatic experiences can cause phobias -- I have a well-earned dental phobia. Without nitrous I can avoid panicking during a cleaning, but I absolutely cannot let them do work that they have to give me shots for without panicking unless I'm using the dissociative gas, and extractions under IV sedation if at *all* possible. And really, what's the point of *making* a person have to be awake for dental work anyway? Most other surgeries that don't have to be done under general they'll put you out for still unless you just *want* local sedation. Except abortion, which you have to pay an arm and a friggin' leg more for to have done under IV sedation.

And the emotion I felt after both my root canals and my abortion was the same: Relief.

Relief implies there is suffering to be relieved in the first place. Tooth pain is exquisite. It's the only word to describe it. If anyone was having tooth pain, I would be 100% behind them getting a root canal and would want them to have the ability to get it done right and without pain without having to be rich. I'd drive them there and back. But I would hope that root canals were rare overall, because I don't want anybody to have to experience the pain that led them to having to have one in the first place.

I would also never wish anyone an unwanted pregnancy, or to have a wanted child be diagnosed in utero with serious disease. In terms of political policy, that means advocating for better health care in general, including making contraception a basic preventative health care service readily and easily available to all Americans at little to no cost. (Maybe someday they'll start including dental care in that, too.)

Make sense?

[Odin2005]

8. Sorry, I'm a safe, legal, and rare person.

I don't care if that gets me flamed by people that think I am an evil misogynist that hates women just because I don't agree with them. I'm not going to fit into a RW stereotype of pro-choice people to please someone's notion of political correctness.

[REP]

10. 'Safe legal and rare' is th PC Position

Own it and be proud.

[Daemonaquila]

23. Only if you're an apologist,

... trying to mollify the right wing.

[REP]

34. I'm in the 'safe, legal and accessible' crowd

Rare is for steaks.

[Nye Bevan]

11. I agree with Ted Kennedy's position that abortion should be rare.

In 1987, Kennedy delivered an impassioned speech condemning Supreme Court nominee Robert Bork as a "right-wing extremist" and warning that "Robert Bork's America" would be one marked by back alley abortions and other backward practices. Kennedy's strong opposition to Bork's nomination was important to the Senate's rejection of Bork's candidacy. In recent years, he has argued that much of the debate over abortion is a false dichotomy. Speaking at the National Press Club in 2005, he remarked, "Surely, we can all agree that abortion should be rare, and that we should do all we can to help women avoid the need to face that decision." He voted against the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Ted_Kennedy

I know that there's a "fuck rare" contingent on DU who disagrees with this, but I would much rather see more sex education, and contraception being free and widely accessible, which would have the effect of reducing abortions.

Oh, and I would not accuse Ted Kennedy of "cozying up to the forced-birth camp".

[EFerrari]

13. To Teddy and to my friend Odin, I'll only quote Whoopee Goldberg.

"When was the last time you were pregnant?"

[Nye Bevan]

16. How about Hillary Clinton? What would you quote to her?

I think abortion should remain legal, but it needs to be safe and rare. And I have spent many years now, as a private citizen, as first lady, and now as senator, trying to make it rare, trying to create the conditions where women had other choices.
I have supported adoption, foster care. I helped to create the campaign against teenage pregnancy, which fulfilled our original goal 10 years ago of reducing teenage pregnancies by about a third. And I am committed to do even more.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Cabinet/Hillary_Clinton_Abortion.htm

[cynatnite]

19. I would ask Hillary should a woman feel shame or guilt for having an abortion?

Did she do something wrong or is this a failure on her part.

This stigma works against women which I think is the point of the article.

[EFerrari]

21. "I think abortion should remain legal" -- now, there's a roaring statement

in support of women's health if I ever heard one.

lol

[EFerrari]

20. Why should I? She spends nearly as much time giving lip service to women's welfare

as she does promoting oppressive anti-feminist regimes. How does she qualify as an advocate or an expert?

[cynatnite]

17. I think a lot of folks are missing the point of the article...

We women should not be ashamed of having an abortion. We should not feel guilty as if we did something wrong There is a shameful stigma associated with having an abortion and the author's contention is that this works against us. Stripping away the shame and guilt means more access to abortion.

She is not saying there should be less education or less access to contraception.

[Mimosa]

35. Agree

I never thought I'd have to go 'this far'.

But i will.

[Solly Mack]

36. K&R

[Tumbulu]

37. I'm in my late 50's and

have never had one friend who had an abortion think it was OK, or like a root canal, or anything other than heartbreaking, traumatic and painful.

None of them ever wanted to go through it again. They all wanted it to be safe, legal and rare.

I know two women who also chose to have their baby rather than get an abortion because their previous abortions were too terrible for them. One gave their baby away, the other one kept it. The whole issue is terribly complex and wrought with strong biological reactions.

I find this sort of trivializing talk insulting and not at all consistent with the experiences of women that I know.

[cynatnite]

38. She is talking about the shame, guilt and failure that women feel...

She is not trivializing the decision itself. She calls it a necessary medical procedure that women need who should not feel shame or guilt.

She makes the point that the shame and guilt is what harms our ability to access an abortion. Why should we continue to feel shame or feel that we are a failure because we had an abortion?

She plainly states that these negative emotions fuels the fire against it. Because you feel so bad, that's why it must be outlawed. The RW uses these things against to argue against abortion.

Frankly, I'm surprised at how much jumping the gun there is on this article without fully understanding it's intent.

[libodem]

39. If men got pregnant

Abortion would be a sacrement.

[Major Nikon]

40. The person who wrote the article is just demonstrating binary thinking

Which even though it's the polar opposite of the anti-choice crowd, still comes out of the same flawed dichotomous thinking mindset.

Saying that people have to "love abortion" or they are working against the interests of women or pandering to the anti-choice crowd is just fucking nutty. Abortion carries emotional, physical, and economic costs. There's no getting around that. As such there should be less of them for the simple reason that most of them are the result of other societal failures. That doesn't mean any woman should be denied access to the service or shamed in any way for having one. It means we have a breakdown in things like the availability of birth control, including morning after pills, comprehensive sex education, and those who still cling to the bronze age religious flawed idea that sex is only for procreation and is morally wrong otherwise. When the flat earthers get drug into the modern age and the attitudes surrounding sex start to change, we'll see less abortions, and that's a good thing.

[fishwax]

41. I don't love abortion

I'm pretty much indifferent. It's between a woman and her doctor and has nothing to do with me. It should be safe and legal. Full stop.

The list of things I love is pretty long, but I don't think it includes any medical procedures.

[Nye Bevan]

44. Agreed. It's ridiculous to accuse people like Ted Kennedy of "cozying up to the forced-birth camp"

because of not proclaiming that they "love" abortion.

[saras]

42. If it's safe, legal, and not shameful, who gives a flying fuck whether it's rare or not?

Why would it even matter? Why would someone concern themselves with how often others did it?

[Nye Bevan]

43. Because better sex education, and free and easily available contraception,

results in unwanted pregnancies, and therefore abortions, bring rare.

A DUer (Daemonaquila) upthread came up with the analogy of a root canal. Yes, of course root canals should be available when needed, but isn't it better that everyone brushes and flosses regularly, so that root canals are rare?

[dkf]

45. I used to think this way...when I was far removed from associating with kids.

Once I got attached to my sister's little guy I started to understand why many friends didn't have abortions when I thought they ought to due to their circumstances.

From what I've seen their decisions to have their kids all turned out to be great ones.

If a woman decides she is simply not able to accommodate a child I would never prevent an abortion. But if she takes it so lightly and cavalierly and rejoices in having an abortion I might think there is something missing there. But we are all entitled to our own opinions.

[Avalux]

52. Herein lies the problem.

You have your own reasons for what you believe, but how can you say something is missing in a woman who doesn't share your beliefs? It doesn't matter the reasons for why a woman chooses to have an abortion - even if they rejoice - it's their choice. Judgement from others has no place.

[dkf]

55. People judge things all the time. And sometimes they decide to support their causes by donating.

If they didn't judge things then there would be no support system for or against because we would all do our own thing.

[CTyankee]

59. I think the point should be that we recognize that women are moral agents and can decide

and indeed SHOULD decide when and whether to bring a child into the world. None of us can say whether or not a woman's decision was taken "lightly and cavalierly and rejoices in having an abortion." How on earth would you or I know that?

But just for argument sake, if you are right and she does take abortion in such a way, how can you then trust her to be the great parent you say would be best for the child? In fact, there used to be a bumper sticker that said exactly that: If you can't trust me with an abortion, how can you trust me with a child?"

[dkf]

62. Not our place to judge parenting either...is it? Any yahoo can have a kid.

I just think a twinge of humanity would be missing. But that is me and my opinion on another human being's choices has no impact.

The difference with me and many people is that I don't really want to push my opinion on anyone through the government unless there is active injustice.

[CTyankee]

63. I don't understand how your last sentence applies in the context of this thread...

I mean, is anyone here advocating for "pushing their opinion on anyone through government"?

[Puzzledtraveller]

69. One of the things

I love about my job is that I can help women who come into my office who are seeking an alternative to abortion. I assist them with medicaid eligibility and in my state most of my clients have been approved for coverage. When they call me to tell me their baby was born so I can add the child to their case I feel good about the work I do.

[Avalux]

46. Abortion is a safe medical procedure. It is a LEGAL MEDICAL PROCEDURE.

It is also an individual choice. If a woman is not psychologically affected by religious views and wants to have an abortion, or several throughout her lifetime, she has that choice and should NOT be told it's wrong, she should not be demonized for making that choice.

Women have been given power with the ability to have an abortion. So much time, energy and resources are put forth to take that away - for no reason other than religious - to go back to a form of slavery. Women need to wake up and understand this and start fighting or it'll be too late.

The negative aspects and stated moral repurcussions for having an abortion are not based on scientific evidence but religious beliefs. It frustrates me to no end that this gets lost in the cacophony of arguments about whether it should be legal or not. Every woman has a right to choose and every woman should fight to maintain that right, whether they'd choose to have one or not.

[Ship of Fools]

49. Abortion on Demand -- No Exceptions, No Apologies.

[Nye Bevan]

57. "Safe, legal and rare" wins elections. Because that's what most Americans believe in.

Slogans like "Abortion on Demand" and "I Love Abortion" will alienate just as many Americans as the anti-choice nuts on the right.

[CTyankee]

60. It is a fair point. "Rare" also bolsters the argument for provision on accessible birth control.

If one's goal is "rare" abortions, how best to prevent them than with contraception.

It is hard for the other side, try as they will, to deny that argument.

[Ship of Fools]

64. This is what I believe, and I don't think I'm alone.

I don't intend to stick it under a teabagger's nose, but I think it's a-ok
to remind myself and others that abortions already are rare. The words
*safe* and *legal* are, to me anyway, patently obvious.

As I see it: I went through two of them. The first was directly after my dad's suicide.
When I found out I was pregnant, I became suicidal myself. The second made me
so angry at myself that I nearly succeeded.

Had it not been for the shame and self-loathing, the abortions I underwent would not
have cost me ten years of my life to angst and anger. The life choices I made
AFTER those procedures were not the ones I otherwise would have made. My issue
was not about the abortions themselves, but the isolation and anger I felt because of
cultural taboos. I don't want young women to have to experience what I did,
so I would like to see the conversation changed -- sooner, not later.

Like I said: Abortion on Demand -- No Exceptions, No Apologies.

Just my opinion. Thanks!

[easttexaslefty]

50. I can only speak of my experience.

I've had two. Back in the late 70's.
The first time, I foolishly thought because I was nursing my youngest son & was not menstruating, I wouldn't get pregnant. I was wrong.
The second time, I had an IUD.
Neither choice was at all easy. It's something that can still haunt my thoughts even all these years later.
I still am pro-choice. I always will be. But to equate it to JUST a medical procedure, IN ALL CASES, over-reaching.

[cali]

51. oh puke

for many women this is a difficult experience. For others it's not. An abortion is not the same as a mammogram or a tonsillectomy. You can try and equate it as much as you want and it's still bullshit. And one person's ethical act is another person's major transgression. I'm strongly pro-choice but this is an idiot piece.

[easttexaslefty]

54. Yep.

[HappyMe]

68. I agree.

[cherish44]

70. Very true

I've been fortunate that I've never been in the position of having an unwanted or dangerous pregnancy but as someone who has been pregnant and experienced very intense emotions because of it (and still does when it comes to my children), I know that the choice to abort would be gut-wrenchingly difficult one for me personally and would be a very big deal. Every woman is different. You can't make a single statement that's going to represent everyone. Everyone has their own reasons for doing what they do. I am and will remain pro-choice but I don't LOVE abortion.