Another day, another shooting

[nadinbrzezinski]

In a mall now. Yay!!!!

Sooner or later this will change.

Oh link, it is like breaking now.

http://touch.baltimoresun.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-79037812/

[taught_me_patience]

1. But we're told, even right here on DU, that there is no need to have any fear

of guys walking around malls with AR-15s strapped to their backs...

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. And i got to go to a mall today

With mom... Duck and cover.



Sooner or later this will have to change

[etherealtruth]

3. We have been told ....

... that strutting around malls, the periphery of schools properties, etc with guns is perfectly OK, it is their right. We have had self proclaimed law enforcement members state how this is NOT a problem.

"All" guns start out as legally manufactured guns ... yet, the proliferation of guns in our society is not a problem.

[Frustratedlady]

6. It's our right to "strut" around alive, too.

I'm sure the 3 that were shot thought they had the right to shop, as well.

[etherealtruth]

8. No, no the rights of "guns " trump all other rights

This is sickening and maddening

[Iggo]

33. Guns are more important than people, silly.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Indeed, but, but freedumb!!!

[villager]

93. Oh, the gun-lickers have their snarky apologetics ready for *any* scale atrocity...

...large or small.

[former9thward]

136. No one was walking around with AR-15s or anything else.

The Mall in Columbia is a gun free zone. Weapons not allowed (except by bad guys who are not going to follow the rules.)

[spanone]

4. just reported on m$nbc...3 shot dead....

fuck

[MoonRiver]

5. Only 3 dead? Nothing to see, move along.

[madinmaryland]

7. We lived a mile from that mall in Maryland until we moved to Ohio

last year. Our daughter was at the mall quite a bit, and we are shaken.

[etherealtruth]

12. I think I understand

Years ago, when the crazed "DC snipers" were murdering folk (aside from the normal human response of horror) I felt unnerved as we had recently moved from northern Virginia back to Michigan.

The familiarity made it so scary and so personal.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. That *is* too close for comfort

[madinmaryland]

14. We are dreading the announcements of who has died. This is within

the school that our daughter went to, and my wife worked in the school that fed to the high school where our daughter worked, and they know a lot of people who may have been at the mall.

Thanks.

[lapislzi]

68. My thoughts are with you.

[kcr]

83. I used to live in that area too, been to that mall many times.

So upsetting

[MH1]

9. Later, much later, if it changes at all.

All these shootings provide great distractions from the ongoing plundering of the 99% by the 1%. What are all the news shows talking about each time another shooting happens?

Updated "bread and circuses": "Bread, circuses, and mass shootings."

[PowerToThePeople]

10. rescind the 2nd amendment, now! n/t

[NYC_SKP]

15. Yes, because climate change isn't real and the NSA is totally harmless.

End the Second, gather up the guns, and everything will be fine.



Let's just take our chances and toss that stupid amendment.

The Bill of Rights has been emaciated enough, what's a little more, right?

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Actually I am all for gun owners being part of a well regulated militia

Yup, the supremes made a huge mistake, a Dred Scott level mistake.

Yup, and I am also for tracking all sales in the US. In time things will change, cause you know what? This is not sustainable.

[spin]

89. There ARE some well regulated militias in our nation. ...

I've had a couple of offers to join one which I refused.

The members could be described as anti-government and extremely conservative to say the least.

[Oakenshield]

38. What?

Care to explain what global warming has to with guns? And if you think being armed is going to scare the NSA, then you're due for a bigger tinfoil hat.

[Skip Intro]

21. says PowerToThePeople -

oh, the irony...

[Adrahil]

39. Just the power I want to the people! Nt

[PowerToThePeople]

52. Gunz != Power n/t

[X_Digger]

70. This shit again? n/t

[seveneyes]

84. Do you really think the shooter was a law abiding citizen?

Because that is who the 2nd amendment applies to...Not to those who commit gun crimes.

[PowerToThePeople]

99. we could just ban all gun sales

Then we would not have to rescind. It would take time, but we could be able to slowly remove them from the criminal element.

[Duckhunter935]

102. they would just make them

Printer or machine shop

[PowerToThePeople]

122. they can already do that.

Last edited Sat Jan 25, 2014, 11:05 PM - Edit history (1)

That is not a big concern. Not everyone can design a functioning firearm. Also, ban the sales of ammo.

[Duckhunter935]

154. like pot and cocaine

that works well, does it not

[PowerToThePeople]

156. let's see...

No one dead from this



Over 20,000 per year dead from this.

All smoke is not equal...

[Duckhunter935]

157. cocaine? Crack?

and yes there are many thousands of dead from the gangs and smugglers from pot. I guess those do not count for you though.

[onethatcares]

115. we are all "law abiding citizens"

and I'm still waiting for the militia to begin drills in the town square.

[cherokeeprogressive]

107. You don't fucking "rescind" parts of the Constitution. (They're called clues, and can be found

ALL OVER THE FUCKING INTERNET)

Tell ya what... nah. Never mind.

[PowerToThePeople]

120. ban all guns. ban all ammo. rescind the 2nd. n/t

[pintobean]

124. Good luck with that.

nt

[shedevil69taz]

151. yeah go ahead and run for ANY election with that plank as part of your platform

and see how far you get.

[RetroLounge]

16. 'Murica!

Freedumb!

RL

[Boom Sound 416]

17. Ok so 360 million guns in the US

And roughly 360 days in a year

So "another day, another shooting" leaves 999,999 guns not involved in a shooting right?

[spanone]

18. our current nuclear aresenal is over 5,000, so if we fire off one that's 4999 ....

that weren't involved in starting a war and killing possibly millions, right?

[Boom Sound 416]

24. I guess

The concept was "another day, another shooting" which is a little bit of farce, but whatever. (In this case I'm considering a "shooting" something of the nature of a mass shooting)

I think though it's pretty hard to equate an AR-15 even fully automatic with a 100 round clip to a 30 megaton intercontinental ballistic missile. Maybe it's just me.

[spanone]

43. if you're on the receiving end of it, it really doesn't matter at all.

[Adrahil]

46. Do you know how many deaths each year are directly related to alcohol?

About 88,000 according to the CDC. And about 5,000 deaths of those below 21 are directly attributable to drinking. Know how how many kids die each year from gunshot wounds? Less than 1,000.

Not saying we don't have a problem, but keep that in mind the next time Rachel Maddow talks about how cool the bar in her office is.

[spanone]

51. alcohol is a problem. guns are a problem. cancer is a problem. hate is a problem.

bombs are a problem. we have many. one being worse than the other doesn't disqualify it.

[Boom Sound 416]

53. But the banning solution is no solution

360 million guns in the US. that ship has sailed

[Adrahil]

66. I don't disagree, but what's the justification for elevating this one?

It seems mainly because a lot to take a drink. When it's not your ox getting gored, it easy to call for bannings, etc. I'm just saying let's be more consistent.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. I just love your "logic"

[Boom Sound 416]

26. It's not logic, its perspective

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Likely from a gun fan

So welcome to my ignore list, good bye.

[Boom Sound 416]

30. See ya, how did the recorder work out

Sorry , freedom is not a la carte.

You of all people should know that

[Bjorn Against]

55. Well I guess that we can both agree that there is no logic in what you said

[Boom Sound 416]

56. Exactly.

[etherealtruth]

23. How many senseless gun murders are acceptable to you?

[Boom Sound 416]

27. How many DUI homicides are acceptable to you

[spanone]

29. i knew that was coming! bwahahahahaaa enjoy.

[Boom Sound 416]

31. Exactly it's a meaningless question.

Last edited Sat Jan 25, 2014, 03:03 PM - Edit history (1)

How many homeless children are acceptable

How many rotten congressmen

How many countries that still practice slavery

And on

And on







And on

[etherealtruth]

34. It is a very meaningful question

all that need to be aggressively addressed

[spanone]

36. how many murders are acceptable from gun violence?

[Boom Sound 416]

44. None. Murder is a crime

[etherealtruth]

32. None ... I support strict laws against drinking and driving

However, that is not the issue at hand (i liken it to asking what my favorite color is ... an irrelevant question designed to distract from the issue at hand).

is there a tipping point (i.e. number of dead) where "gun rights" should be limited or viewed as less than equal to the number of innocent dead?

[Boom Sound 416]

42. I support laws against mass shooting

As well.

Is there a tipping point though? I suppose, but it's gonna hard to ban automobiles

[etherealtruth]

45. You do realize how tired and stupid the "gun' / auto comparison is ...

.... we do have some intelligent "gun rights" posters at DU (I will never agree with them; however, they are capable of making valid points and carrying on coherent discussions) ... then , we have those that babble on about cars and swimming pools killing people.

Yeah ... cancer kills as well

[billh58]

48. No true Scotsman...

Typical NRA slight-of-hand.

[Boom Sound 416]

54. I'm not NRA

Nor do I own or care to own a gun.

Tolerance is not a la carte

[billh58]

69. Yet you repeat the NRA

excuses word-for-word. Of course cancer, automobiles, knives, forks, trips and falls, lightening, swimming pools, and many other causes contribute to multiple deaths in this country. None of that, however, changes the fact that the USA leads it's nearest competitor 20 times over in number of gun deaths. And yes, suicide counts in that comparison as well (as it should).

The bottom line is, just like cancer and drunk driving, we can and should address the gun violence epidemic in this country, and take the politics out of what really amounts to a public health issue.

[Boom Sound 416]

74. Or maybe you're just in denial

Maybe You're trying to ban something that is meaningless to just you.


I really don't care if my argument and the NRA's are similar. It just shows the breadth of the discussion points

[billh58]

77. I'm not trying to

ban anything, but I AM trying to have a civil discussion. Evidently you just want to post snark and vitriol. Take care...

[Boom Sound 416]

78. Good start with NRA parrot comment

[Boom Sound 416]

50. I'm sorry I'm missed your solution

Ban them. Right?

Don't get stuck in the car thing. Too many folks here get stuck on words not ideas. Think about the dangers of the world; take dart and throw. They are analogies.

So back your intellectual epiphany: Ban them

[XRubicon]

57. Car accidents are not equal to murder with a gun

Car are used for transportation, guns are used to kill.

How many people commit murder using a car? How many used guns to commit murder?

[Boom Sound 416]

58. No. Both are involved in accidents and acts of violence

Both are heavily regulated.

Their is a reason why people use them together in this discussion

[XRubicon]

61. cars are involved in acts of violence?

Guns are not heavily regulated. You don't need to register or insure or pay annual taxes on guns. Or have a license to use a gun.

[beevul]

81. Nonsense.

"You don't need to register or insure or pay annual taxes on guns. Or have a license to use a gun."

You aren't required by law in most jurisdictions, to register insure or pay annual taxes on a vehicle, except when driven in public.

You aren't required to have a drivers license simply to own a vehicle.

You aren't required to have a background check simply to own a vehicle, and there are, to my knowledge, no disabling offenses which legally disallow one to own a vehicle.

To legally carry a gun in public, in most jurisdictions, one is required to have a permit.

You, like so many before you, are conflating public use, with simple ownership.

Guns are heavily regulated...just not as "heavily regulated" as you'd prefer.

[XRubicon]

82. LOL!

[Boom Sound 416]

87. Wow! LOL

I mean Damn

[etherealtruth]

59. It is not worth the time or energy trying to discuss this with someone that makes that "argument"

If one doesn't understand the difference between cars and guns , by this point ... they never will

[Boom Sound 416]

65. Still banning 360 million

Cool. Hello new prohibition, complete deregulation and goodbye waiting times and registries

[Lurks Often]

62. What makes you think even more laws will make a damn bit of difference?

Murder is against the law, the penalties for committing murder don't prevent people from doing it already.
Maryland specific laws:
Concealed Carry in Maryland is prohibited unless you can present "Has a good and substantial reason to wear, carry, or transport a handgun" https://www.mdsp.org/Organization/SupportServicesBureau/LicensingDivision/MainLicensingPage/LicensingandRegistration/Firearms/WearandCarryPermit.aspx
Open carry is prohibited
Magazines are limited to 10 rounds
You need a Handgun Qualification License to purchase a handgun after 10/1/13

Maryland has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country and is ranked #7 according to the Brady Campaign: http://www.bradycampaign.org/sites/default/files/2011_Brady_Campaign_State_Scorecard_Rankings.pdf

So what other laws to do you think will prevent these shootings? And do you think that a) you have a chance to get them passed at the state or federal level and b) they will hold up in court?

[Boom Sound 416]

63. Sshhh

Just mention cars. That way they have an out.

Easy with the facts/reason thingy

[XRubicon]

64. We don't need new laws, we need to tax guns to reduce the numbers on the street.

They did it with automatic weapons, we need to so it again.

[Lurks Often]

67. Aside from the fact that you will never get that through Congress

all you will do is prevent those at the lower end of the income spectrum from purchasing a firearm. Not counting the ones who are retired now, 99% of the gun owners I know make AT LEAST $50,000 a year and the retirees invariably made that much or more before they retired.

And the tax stamp on fully automatic weapons is $200, considering that the least expensive fully automatic weapons start in the $3-5k range, I really don't think the $200 tax stamp is a consideration.

[XRubicon]

72. Good, your $50,000 plus friends will have to pay more

Gun owners need to pay for their paranoid hobby.

Taxing will cut demand.

[Lurks Often]

128. You missed the part about never getting that through Congress n/t

[XRubicon]

130. You missed the part about caring for others. nt

[Lurks Often]

132. Was that really the best you could as a reply? n/t

[XRubicon]

134. Yes, go look in the mirror

[Lurks Often]

138. Thanks for the laugh n/t

[XRubicon]

139. I knew looking in the mirror would make you laugh, you are welcome.

Why are you here?

[Lurks Often]

141. Really, you've devolved to elementary school insults now?

The laugh was about your inability to discuss things like an adult and resorting to weak, petty insults.

[XRubicon]

142. What?

The laugh wasn't about you looking in the mirror? I don't understand. Are you being serious?

[Lurks Often]

143. Perhaps it's time for you to take your childish insults elsewhere n/t

[XRubicon]

145. perhaps you should take your gun nuttery elsewhere

This is the Democratic Underground.

[Lurks Often]

146. And lots of people can be Democrats and pro-gun, just look at Harry Reid

http://www.harryreid.com/ee/index.php/sportsmen/rights

[XRubicon]

148. 20 first graders.

Go look in the mirror again, try not to laugh this time.

[Lurks Often]

149. I'm laughing at YOU and your posts

I've met 7 year olds who are capable of more intelligent discussions then you

[XRubicon]

150. I knew you'd be back

You should lurk often somewhere where people are more like minded.

You don't belong here.

[Lurks Often]

158. I noticed you avoided addressing the fact that Harry Reid is pro-gun

according to his own website.

[billh58]

153. And Democrats can also be

pro gun-control:

"Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said that the push for gun control is not over, one day before the anniversary of the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School."

http://dailycaller.com/2013/12/13/reid-shameful-that-senate-cannot-pass-gun-legislation/

If it was easy, we would have solved this social menace on our society by now. It will take a few more years, but the demographics are changing, and a new generation may not be as in love with guns as the current one appears to be.

[Lurks Often]

161. You're entitled to your opinion, but gun control is losing more battles then it's winning.

When even Illinois becomes a Shall Issue CCW state, Chicago keeps losing court battles (by the way, how much has Chicago paid out to the pro-gun lawyers so far?) and when the Senate can't get anything passed, the anti-gun faction has a problem.

[Boom Sound 416]

80. Automatic/machine guns were done away with via taxation?

[XRubicon]

90. NFA 1934

"Like the current National Firearms Act (NFA), the original National Firearms Act of 1934, required NFA firearms to be registered and taxed. The underlying purpose of the original law, however, was to reduce the use of NFA firearms in crime, especially in gangland crime of the Prohibition era, such as the St. Valentine’s Day Massacre of 1929. The $200 tax on NFA firearms was quite prohibitive when the original law was passed. ($3,478.64 in 2013 dollars)[citation needed] With a few exceptions, the tax amount is unchanged.[1][2]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act



A $3478 tax on a gun would surely cut demand. Gun manufacturers would drop production rates and that would drive prices even higher.

[Boom Sound 416]

95. Wow. Fair enough.

[hack89]

92. It wasn't taxes the made automatic weapons rare

It is only $200.

[XRubicon]

96. When the tax was introduced it was equivalent to $3478

It essentially stopped commerce.

[hack89]

97. No - it was through restricting the number of weapons

There have not been new automatic weapons available to buy since the mid-80's. That is why they are so incredibly expensive.

[XRubicon]

101. No

When the tax was introduced the market was destroyed, they stopped making what they couldn't sell.

You may be right about now, but the effect in the 30's was high cost.

I would like to see exactly that happen now for most guns.

[hack89]

104. Dream on

it is unlikely it would pass constitutional muster. Which is somewhat irrelevant because it would never make it through congress.

[XRubicon]

106. It is a tax

You have the right to bear arms, there is nothing that says they must be cheap.

It worked before and it would work again.

[hack89]

110. A poll tax is a tax too.

there is plenty of case law. The SC says you have a right to own a handgun. That means a tax specifically intended to restrict that right is unconstitutional.

Besides - you still have to get it through Congress. Which is why it is a fantasy for the foreseeable future.

[XRubicon]

111. When did you pass the bar?

I have some other legal questions I'd like to run by you.

[hack89]

119. I will be here when you want to pick the conversation

in the meantime, I suggest you google Strict Scrutiny. That will put you well ahead of all those other gun control advocates who don't understand why their laws fail time and time again in the courts.

[XRubicon]

121. I think we are too far apart on this issue

You will never convince me and likely I will never convince you.

It is fortunate for your side that even after 20 first graders are gunned down the response from the public was nothing. I hope that will not always be the case.

In the mean time you should google Dunning Krueger Effect.

[etherealtruth]

71. Severely limiting access and ownership of guns is a start

We need a federal policy ... one can drive a very few miles south down I-95 from Maryland to Virginia ... and be able to purchase guns with comparatively little limit or control. Virtually all guns start out as legal ... including the guns used in commission of crimes


the second amendment has a pretty interesting history in the courts.
http://www.livescience.com/26485-second-amendment.html


I have no hopes of the current (right wing nut job) justices changing the current interpretations ... but, courts can and do change.

[Lurks Often]

129. I find your proposals unrealistic

I also noticed you avoided any mention of Maryland's very strict gun laws, the very laws people in favor of gun control insist will reduce these horrible tragedies.

[etherealtruth]

137. Maryland may have strict gun laws however Virginia's are anything but

as everyone from the DC area knows ... one can go from Maryland to Virginia in a very short amount of time. Strict gun laws can only work if one can't be in a place with lax gun laws very quickly.

what do you propose ... "more gunz?"

[Lurks Often]

140. So you have information that states the shooter got his gun from Virginia?

Or are you just regurgitating the talking points others have used?


Serious solutions are fixing the social and economic issues in the high crimes areas and very stiff mandatory penalties for the use of a firearm in a felony. Use a gun in a crime 5 years, fire the gun, 10 years, if someone is injured 20 years, murdered, mandatory life. In no case can the preceeding penalties be plea bargained away and the entire sentence gets served, no probation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Exile

[etherealtruth]

147. I lived in northern Virginia ... It is a well known gun pipeline to other states

As well known as the drug pipeline running up and down the east coast along I-95. So yes, as a quick internet search would tell you I am regurgitating F-A-C-Ts

I have no idea whether the murderer was one of your good guys with a gun that had every right to have gun (YEA GUN RIGHTS) until of course, he was a terrorizing murderer that never should have had a gun ... or if he purchased his gun illegally (say from Virginia or on the street via lax gun laws in surrounding states)

Things must have really changed at the Columbia Mall ... I never thought of that as a high crime area

[Lurks Often]

159. The residents of Virginia seem perfectly content with their existing gun laws,

since nothing more stringent ever seems to get passed by the legislature.

[spanone]

76. here's a start.

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]



Known as the "gun show loophole," most states do not require background checks for firearms purchased at gun shows from private individuals -- federal law only requires licensed dealers to conduct checks.

Under the Gun Control Act of 1968, federal law clearly defined private sellers as anyone who sold no more than four firearms per year. But the 1986 Firearm Owners Protection Act lifted that restriction and loosely defined private sellers as people who do not rely on gun sales as the principal way of obtaining their livelihood.

“Today, private parties sometimes sell large numbers of new and used firearms while claiming hobbyist status and exemption from the requirements imposed on licensed retailers,” according to Inside Gun Shows: What Goes on When Everybody Thinks Nobody’s Watching, a 2009 report from the Violence Prevention Research Program at University of California Davis.

Some states have opted to go further than federal law by requiring background checks at gun shows for any gun transaction, federal license or not. Five states, most recently Colorado and Connecticut, mandate universal background checks, an even more stringent standard that imposes background checks on almost all gun purchases, including over the Internet.

http://www.governing.com/gov-data/safety-justice/gun-show-firearms-bankground-checks-state-laws-map.html

[Duckhunter935]

85. which is not a "gun show loophole"

It is a private sale loophole to put it correctly. And yes it should be tightened back up. I would prefer all transactions on weapons go through FFLs or local law enforcement for a very small fee.

[spanone]

86. and many of these 'private sales' occur at gun shows.

[Duckhunter935]

155. still a private sale

and all FFL venders must by law perform background checks at gun shows. So it is "NOT" a gun show loophole. And guess what, I purchased several weapons over the internet also. Had to be shipped to an FFL and background check performed.

[Lurks Often]

131. Take it up with the citizens and legislatures of those states

they seem to be quite comfortable with the laws already on the books.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

160. So long as the gun enthusiasts and gun lobby intimidate the public, not a whole lot.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172106876#post1

[spin]

94. If you are suggesting that all firearms be banned and removed from the hands of honest citizens ...

surely you realize that this would merely empower the criminal element.

In the wrong hands firearms cause tragedy. In the right hands they can and do save lives when used for legitimate self defense.

The problem is finding a method to insure that that only rational, sane and responsible citizens can own firearms. There is no way to totally eliminate all gun violence in our nation but by making some fairly minor changes to our current national gun laws, we can make significant headway in addressing the problem of gun violence in our nation.

We also need to better address the problem of mental illness in this country. Perhaps the ACA will eventually enable people who suffer from mental illness to find help from qualified professionals.

[etherealtruth]

100. I am suggesting accountability and uniformity is gun laws

(my personal preference is "No guns" ... but, that is not necessarily what I advocate politically) since "all" guns start out as legally manufactured implements it would be nice to see something akin to cradle to grave accountability (with the possibility of transferring accountability through legal sales , registered gifts etc) we can make a start.

It will take generations to undue the consequences of almost unfettered access but I believe it is time to start.

I am no fan of hunting but I do not believe that hunters are inherently evil ... I honestly don't want to take the ability to hunt from anyone .... but I want folk to be forced to be accountable for every weapon they purchase. I would like to see some sort of liability insurance requirements associated with gun ownership.

I certainly agree that we need to address mental illness in our country .... but, find it necessary to point out the mentally ill are more likely to be victimized rather than be the perpetrators of violent crimes

[spin]

123. Obviously if your personal preference is "No guns" you will support firearm accountability ...

which would mean gun registration.

If on the other hand if you support gun rights, you will strongly oppose gun registration as you will feel that eventually it will be used for gun confiscation.

I doubt that the two sides of the gun registration debate can ever find an acceptable middle ground.

On the issue of gun registration I will simply post the views of my state of Florida expressed in
the 2013 Florida Statutes as I largely agree:

790.335 Prohibition of registration of firearms; electronic records.—
The Legislature finds and declares that:
1. The right of individuals to keep and bear arms is guaranteed under both the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution and s. 8, Art. I of the State Constitution.
2. A list, record, or registry of legally owned firearms or law-abiding firearm owners is not a law enforcement tool and can become an instrument for profiling, harassing, or abusing law-abiding citizens based on their choice to own a firearm and exercise their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms as guaranteed under the United States Constitution. Further, such a list, record, or registry has the potential to fall into the wrong hands and become a shopping list for thieves.
3. A list, record, or registry of legally owned firearms or law-abiding firearm owners is not a tool for fighting terrorism, but rather is an instrument that can be used as a means to profile innocent citizens and to harass and abuse American citizens based solely on their choice to own firearms and exercise their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms as guaranteed under the United States Constitution.
4. Law-abiding firearm owners whose names have been illegally recorded in a list, record, or registry are entitled to redress.
(b) The Legislature intends through the provisions of this section to:
1. Protect the right of individuals to keep and bear arms as guaranteed under both the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution and s. 8, Art. I of the State Constitution.
2. Protect the privacy rights of law-abiding firearm owners.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0790/0790.html

However I feel we could make some significant progress in reducing gun violence if we were able to pass a national requirement that the sale of any firearm would require an NICS background check as commonly run by a licensed dealer for the sale of a new firearm.

I rarely sell any of of my firearm collection and when I do, I have my own rules:

1) The buyer has to be a resident of Florida.

2) The buyer has to have a currently valid Florida concealed weapons permit.

3) I have to have personally known the buyer for at least six months.

The last time I sold any firearms was 8 years ago when I sold several handguns to a co-worker who I had known for several years and also enjoyed target shooting at the same pistol range I visited. Both he and his wife had Florida concealed weapons permits.

***
Many people who live in highly populated urban areas have little understanding of hunters. You at least do not believe that hunters are "inherently evil." I have never participated in the sport of hunting but I do live in one of the poorest counties in Florida. Many people here hunt deer and feral hog to stock their freezers with high quality meat used to feed their families.

Feral hogs are considered a pest in Florida as they are not native to the United States and do considerable damage to the environment. They reproduce like rabbits. Prepared properly the meat is very tasty.

Deer are so plentiful that they pose a traffic hazard. A neighbor two houses down from mine totaled her car several years ago when she ran into one. My daughter hit one and dented her fender. My son in law who drives an 18 wheeler views deer as large rodents and damaged his truck when he hit one in Georgia. Two years ago, I almost ran over a herd of deer as I entered a small town late at night near me. Fortunately I had reduced my speed to 35 mph to comply with the town's speed laws.

Hunters help keep the population of deer and hog under control.

Affordable mental health care is very important for many reasons. I agree with you that all too often those with mental health issues are victimized.

Obviously we have some differences on the issue of gun control but I believe we both basically wish to see a reduction in gun violence and tragic mass murders.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

162. You're asking the wrong question.

Here are a couple of questions you should be asking yourself.

First, why is it there are 360 million guns in the US if there aren't even yet 360 million people in the US?

Then figure in all the households in this country who don't have any guns.....meaning that there are many people with more than two guns in their possession.

Then figure in all the people who own guns but aren't avid hunters. And there are a lot of those.

Then figure in all the people who own guns but don't live in high crime areas. And there are a lot of those.

Now state that number again.

360 million guns in this country.

Many of them in the hands of people who arguably have no actual need for those guns.

Now, go ahead and minimalize gun crime all you want, but wouldn't you agree that the fact there is so much superfluous gun ownership in this country is part of problem and not part of the solution?

[Boom Sound 416]

163. That's a fair point

But, no. I don't think owning more than one gun increases the chances of gun violence. In fact, to the contrary, the necessity and creation waiting time for gun purchases speaks to the heart of your argument.

It's the hot head who is out to settle a score that owns one gun; the gun he just bought.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

22. That WRC anchor that was just asking the on-scene reporter stupid questions is

about as dirty laundry and stupid as they get.

Ugh!...why I don't watch any local news anymore. Can't stand the stupidity.

Anyway, yay gunz!!!!

GUNZ RAWK!



Shots fired at mall, three people confirmed dead...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-maryland-mall-shooting-20140125,0,2030558.story

Hello Kitty!

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. Knowing how the laundry is washed

I am choosy. Believe it or not my local fox affiliate is pretty dang good and not as slimy. Now my local station that is truly local is creating real estate in right wind land and in climate change denial.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

37. She's asking questions for which the answers are playing out on the camera feed, as if she doesn't

know how these things work and as if she can't see a monitor.

In other words, she has nothing to say except to try to figure out how to just be talking. If they can't think of anything to say in the prescense of live video, just shut up. We don't need to have some anchor to try spelling it all out for us - we can see!

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. The problem is that cameras hire them for looks

Some of the things I have seen give me a whole different view of this.

I give thanks I work in print to be honest

[ChisolmTrailDem]

47. Oh god, the reporters with the chief of police are just a vapid...

I've only known about this a few minutes and, on my own, I have learned that the shooter is probably dead. Yet, an on-scene reporter just asked if they know what the motive is already. No investigation, but that reporter thinks they already have a motive!

Jeez. I NEVER watch local news. The stupidity burns.

[nadinbrzezinski]

116. Realize, some come from the control room

[NYC_SKP]

125. What is that, a toy? If you like Hello Kitty you can have more firepower than that....

Not available in all states (legally):



http://www.armoryblog.com/firearms/hand-guns/hello-kitty-kel-tec-plr16/

http://www.kittyhell.com/category/hello-kitty-guns/

[Deep13]

35. Are the guns okay?!

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. Both the gun and ammo are ok

[Skip Intro]

49. I believe they've been arrested and will be charged.

Because, of course, the person (unlicensed, I'm betting) doing the shooting has no culpability at all as, most certainly, the gun was shooting itself.

[Bjorn Against]

60. Well as the George Zimmerman case proves, gun nuts often don't believe the shooter has culpability

[Deep13]

73. culpability alone did not shoot the victims. nt

[Skip Intro]

75. The person pullling the trigger is 100% culpable.

An inanimate object does not take action on its own.

[boston bean]

79. How did this person get this inanimate object, twitched their nose and it appeared? nt

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

88. Why?

Just asking...

[boston bean]

91. Well it goes right to the availability of guns that other PEOPLE, not inanimate

objects, allow to occur and put innocent shoppers, citizens, movie goers in harms way.

And let's not forget 5 year old kindergartners and first graders massacred.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

105. "Allowing" a gun to another person...

...may or may not be a crime. It almost never makes the makes the transferer guilty of the same crime.
UBCs have been been mentioned (which I generally favor), what changes do you think are needed?

[boston bean]

113. It is the culture of the guns, persons who favor carrying them everywhere, the NRA

to anyone fucking lunatic out there.

I'm sorry, but something has to change and the tired old arguments that a gun is inanimate object is just getting old and worn out. It's an argument for more guns.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

117. re: "I'm sorry, but something has to change..."

There's certainly no need to be "sorry". Nothing will change or improve without effort. Any efforts for laws and enforcement require first and primarily cooperation in those efforts. Cooperation will NEVER happen without agreement.

This is why I asked about UBCs.


I generally disagree with a lot about the pro-control side but here and there I can see ideas with a bit of merit. Too often IMHO the pro-control side looks at new legislation like an old pickup truck in that they pile every stray thought and whim in there and hope it passes. Just not effective.

Do you favor UBCs?

[Skip Intro]

118. No.

Most gun homicides are inner-city, gang/turf/violent youth - not NRA members. You can't solve the problem if you refuse to acknowledge it.

More restrictive laws will mean no more to lawbreakers than existing laws.

There is no credible argument to be made for taking guns from the tens of millions who are trained and own their firearms legally. Aside from the 2A, there is no argument that the people of this country will accept for doing anything like that. It fails every time. Not because of the NRA and lobbying, but because the people of the country reject it as the flawed idea that it is.

[B2G]

98. Shooting happend inside a skate shop

Weapon was a shotgun.

I'm betting this was a disgruntled employee or a relationship gone bad. Doesn't sound random.

[shenmue]

103. I wish we could be like Japan, England or Canada

They are much safer.

[ManiacJoe]

108. CNN: Domestic dispute and a shotgun.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/25/us/maryland-mall-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[justiceischeap]

144. The radio did a good job reporting this

I was in Baltimore today (not that far from Columbia) and the DJs were telling people if they could here them, to stay quiet so they didn't attract attention. Friends of mine that I was hanging out with today got caught up in the traffic. They said there were ambulance and police everywhere. Sad day in Maryland.

[B2G]

109. Update

“A shooting at a Maryland mall that left three dead, including the suspected shooter, is being investigated as a possible domestic dispute involving a husband, his estranged wife, and her boyfriend, police sources told ABC News. “

http://abcnews.go.com/US/suspected-shooter-dead-shooting-maryland-mall/story?id=21809168

[kestrel91316]

112. Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it.

[mnhtnbb]

114. My niece and her hubby live 10 miles from there--15 minute drive--very scary.

[malaise]

126. There were also school shooting every single day this week

This is fugging crazy.

[nadinbrzezinski]

127. It has to stop, I just don't know how

[malaise]

133. It's frightening

It's out of control- something has to give.

[nadinbrzezinski]

135. When it does, I suspect it will be seemingly sudden

good news, the NRA is not as strong as it used to be. So there are changes in the society under way. It should happen nationally but... I will take this as a state by state thing if need be.

[Turbineguy]

152. At some point these shootings are going to impact

business economically. It may be already with people switching to on-line shopping.