Guns and Violence in America

[GRACIEBIRD]

Hi All,

My perspective is that of an American, born in Germany... living in France with 10+ years living in the US.

First I'd like to reiterate that the rest of the world is stunned and shocked by our/your gun fetish, availability and proliferation of guns.

But more importantly... there's something WRONG with our/your CULTURE. Guns or no guns, the VIOLENT CULTURE in the US is unprecedented in the civilized world. I've seen the reactions to one another at bars and clubs, at sporting events and at concerts and even on the streets. In Munich a man will apologize for dropping a cup of coffee on the sidewalk and use his handkerchief to blot up the liquid. In Los Angeles a man will relieve himself on the street.

One does NOT see violence in ever day life in Europe. If taking guns calms your violence then please do but I think the violence goes beyond your guns.

Thoughts?

OOPSSS I have been informed that you don't like talk of guns here so it's ok to delete or move this statement. thanks and sorry

[NYC_SKP]

1. I agree with you, and I'm not particularly proud of our culture or our behavior at home or abroad.

With a few exceptions, our country more than most accepts crass, loud, vulgar, and often violent behavior embarrassingly easily.

There are two DU groups that discuss guns exclusively:

The Gun Control & RKBA group here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1172

and the Gun Control Reform Activism group here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1262

Both are reasonably good places to post your perspective for discussion, though I would say that there's more freedom to express individual points of view in the first group, Gun Control & RKBA.

Welcome to DU!

[GRACIEBIRD]

3. thank you for the advice

I love the US. I love many things about the US but there is just something wrong with the culture generally. European kids play the same video games but for the greater part don't get involved in real violence. We have exceptions of course but it's rare. One possible theory placed by some Europeans is that we living here have historically seen the most horrific violence imaginable in our history. We've seen Germans dismembering Russian citizens in Russia and we've seen "raped to death" Bavarian women crucified on the sides of barns.

Europeans have seen the face of Violence and Hatred and we'll just pass on it.

[NYC_SKP]

5. We're a relatively young culture...

And as the country is so large, we're also diverse in our lifestyles: Miami life and Alaska life aren't too similar.

But I think a lot of the nastiness I see is new, possibly having developed more rapidly in the past two generations, since Reagan.

Is it all the war?

Is it the consumerism, the sense of exceptionalism?

I don't know, but it is troubling.

[Hoyt]

2. Welcome. Those with a gun fethish will be upset with your post. But

I and many others agree with you.

[GRACIEBIRD]

4. thank you!!

[The Straight Story]

8. Is that like saying people who are pro-choice have an abortion fetish?

It is not about guns, but about rights.

And if you want to get to the root of the problem, which I think the op was getting at, then you need to bark up another tree because guns are not the cause of violence - people are. If guns were the cause of violence please explain why over 99% of people with guns are not out shooting up others.

Again - if guns are the cause why aren't there 45 million shootings a day?

[Hoyt]

13. If Zimmerman or the old guy who shot two Blacks walking near his property had not had a gun,

three more people would be alive today.

Fact is, violent people are much more likely to intimidate, kill, or wound with a gun. Without gunz, they'd likely sit at home and torture cockroaches or something.

The fact that gun fanciers are content in allowing that to feed their own gun fetish, says a lot about them.

[GRACIEBIRD]

17. +1

[mokawanis]

6. I've never lived outside the US

but I agree that ours is a violent culture. I don't even know what the answer is, but gun regulations would help. Beyond that? I don't know. I just am resolved to be non-violent and hope to influence others to do the same.

[GRACIEBIRD]

7. Is it possible

that this violent culture comes FROM guns?

If every American sees himself as John Rambo he may not be willing to love his neighbor?

[The Straight Story]

9. as noted above

over 99% of gun owners don't use them in a criminal way.

So guns are not the cause but the tool. When a violent person uses that tool do we blame it or them (especially when the majority don't use the same tool that way?)

[GRACIEBIRD]

10. I don't know then

It seems the culture makes people who are violent. This violence manifests itself with guns but if there were no guns maybe it would present itself with knives or sticks or bombs?

Look back to Latvia in WW2. When Germans made Latvia invasion they made simple Latvians law enforcement officers and Nazi collaborators. The first thing that they did was seek vengeance against all in their neighborhood who wronged them historically. Violence is grown when given permission or a head nod or a smile.

And to add:

Maybe it's the "acceptance" of violence that grows more violence? If one young boy said "I'm going to go beat up John for being gay (or having red hair or being fat)" and what if all his friends and peers all said "You are loser, it's not funny, it's not acceptable and you are excluded from our group for showing such behavior" would it still be desirable to be violent?

Or is it because every violent person has a support group behind him giving him congrats and cheer for violence well done?

[The Straight Story]

11. Murder rates by country vs murder by guns by country

Murder rate by country:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Firearm related deaths by country:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

[GRACIEBIRD]

15. so the US is about 6x more violent than Germany?

I would have guessed 100x. Ok then I just wanted to get some opinions but I think I will retreat back to the Photo forum where I originally found DU. lol and leave politics to the experts.

[hack89]

12. We have cut our murder rate in half over the past 20 years

So no - guns are not making us violent.

[Hoyt]

16. Think how low it would be without gunz.

[hack89]

18. I don't indulge in fantasies

I live in the real world.

[mokawanis]

14. Guns, greed, casino capitalism, a violent history

I think there's a lot of reasons the US is such a fucked up country. If I didn't have family ties, and if I had the money, I'd leave tomorrow and I wouldn't look back.

I'm not really disagreeing with you though. Guns are a HUGE problem in the US, and we're not making much progress at all at addressing the problem. I don't blame the rest of the world for being shocked and disgusted with American culture.

[Boom Sound 416]

19. Id leave out the sporting events example

And if someone bumps into you in New York City and doesn't say sorry or excuse me, it's because they are a tourist.