I think it is time for Democrats to learn a little about negotiations from the Republicans.

[NCTraveler]

I think a simple problem that elected Democrat have is their understanding of negotiations. We are past the point of believing that elected Democrat feel the Republicans negotiate in good faith. It is actually one area where I respect elected Republicans. They will fight tooth and nail for what they want. A part of that is being willing to start their negotiations and public rhetoric much more extreme than they plan on getting. Sounds like simple negotiations. Start out asking for more than you want, and settle for what you originally wanted.

Democrats seem to simply ask for what they want. Their starting point for negotiations and in the public eye is simply what they would like to get. Then they negotiate down from there. It seems to be in direct conflict with how negotiations are suppose to go.

These are extremely smart people, that is what baffles me. Everything they do is very well planned. The way they negotiate is very well thought out. I just don't get it. During the health care debate they had to have known that mentioning single payer would not have hurt them. Starting negotiations to the left of Hillary Care would not have hurt them in the publics eyes. The polls were clear on this. When talking about SS, it should always be about lowering the retirement age and lifting the cap. The debate for minimum wage should start at $14+ from our side of the debate. On and on and on.

Democrats in Washington need to start their negotiations from Bernie Sanders checklist. Then negotiate down from there. The polls show over and over again that there would not be some sort of public revolt over starting negotiations from a progressive standpoint.

[jsr]

1. Or learn not to pay $40 for a $20 old lawnmower

[stillwaiting]

2. I have seen people calling for Democrats to do this for several decades now.

Won't someone finally TELL them this very important info.!!

If only they knew how to negotiate!

It sucks that we seem to keep on electing Democrats that just don't know how to negotiate. It must be a skill that is difficult to master!

I think it's time more of us woke up...

[fadedrose]

3. The Dems know this stuff

"They will fight tooth and nail for what they want. A part of that is being willing to start their negotiations and public rhetoric much more extreme than they plan on getting."

Trouble is who they get their campaign contributions from. What "they want" is no entitlements, no taxes, not just low, but "no."

The only way to get anything done is to tactfullly embarrass them as was done in some cases very masterfully in the SOTU speech. A goper I saw interviewed after the speech last night was backing away from stopping an increase in minimum wage. MSM interviewers can help a lot if they sympathize with the poor and middle class.

The White House wants to hear your views.

For my stupid uneducated opinions I got a "thank you" from them last night, and I don't remember which email it was even for. Write from your heart; I think the folks who read the emails are decent people...

[beachbum bob]

4. since when has negotiations worked?

why most democratic plans die an early death. There are issues that there should be no give:

- air and water quality
- freedom from govt over reach
- dignified standard of living for all americans
- no starvation
- no homelessness
- fair wage for fair days work
- no special protection of the wealthy or business
- fair taxation based on ability to pay>>>Adam smith's basic premise
- immigration rights for all
- equal rights for all
- voting rights for all


there is no negotiations away from these issues, if we do, then conservatives frame the debate and win in the end

[Fantastic Anarchist]

28. I very much like the cut of your jib.

Great post and welcome to DU!

[Marr]

5. They start their "negotiations" too far to the right because they want to end up far to the

right of what their constituents want. It's all bullshit.

[swilton]

15. ditto

It's a patronizing behavior of officials once they get into office - what do the little people know?

[Armstead]

34. Exactly...Liberals and progressives are considered "naive"

Like we were naive back in the 1990's when many progressives warned about the negative impacts of things like Media Deregulation, "free trade" agreements like NAFTA MFN for China and repeal of Glass Stegall financial regulations (etc.)

Now, we have seen these things unfold and they have been truly awful.

But still the "centrist" Democratics keep pushing this kind of crap and patting progressives on the head and saying "Nothing to see here citizen."

[Myrina]

6. First, one must clarify what the Dems are "negotiating" for.

As I stated in my earlier post about Klobuchar's comments after the SOTU last night, the Dems started Farm Bill negotiations willing to cut $4B from SNAP. Why? Why didn't they go in firmly holding to the position of RESTORING $4B to SNAP? Or even, NO ADDITIONAL cuts? No, they walked in the door already offering $4B. So of course they ended up giving in to $8B in additional cuts and calling that "a good compromise."

So one needs wonder, what is it exactly that they stand for anymore, and who's interests are they representing?

[NCTraveler]

7. It was your post in the other thread that prompted me to make this op.

You put it in a very simple perspective.

[RobertEarl]

8. Polls show?

Tell ya what the polls show. Polls show the republicans win more votes. They said they wanted to cut government spending and they got reelected.

The polls show that Democrats are divided and stay home when the polls are open. So the few left in office feel deserted and abandoned and do what the voters voted for; cut spending.

[stillwaiting]

9. Democrats got more votes in 2012 at the national level.

Not sure where you are finding Republicans winning more votes much these days.

They have more representation in the house and Senate than they should have based on U.S. votes.

Their gerrymandering has helped create a situation where Republicans have more seats in Congress DESPITE the fact that they get less votes.


[link:http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/feb/19/steny-hoyer/steny-hoyer-house-democrats-won-majority-2012-popu/]

[RobertEarl]

11. Denial of reality?

How the fuck did the republicans gerrymander districts? Because more of them were in office!! They have the power!! Why do they have that power? Because there are more of them in office!!

The reason more of them were in office is because they have a better message. That's the only reason. We Democrats are all over the place and our message is not so clear. Average Joe likes what he hears from pubs, so he votes for pubs more often. That is what the polls show.

Of course then there is President Obama. WTHeck? How did he get elected if the average Joe likes the pub message? Because the Democrats were united, worked together, put aside their differences and overwhelmed the bush like creatures who are far too plentiful to be denied they exist, try as some might.

[stillwaiting]

13. I'm sure you're not insinuating I'm denying reality.

I was only pointing out that when you stated that Republicans got more votes that they didn't receive more votes from the voting population.

Clearly, they have more votes in Congress.

The reason Democrats don't have a more unified and united message is because Wall Street has them thoroughly corrupted. They don't effectively distribute a message because they are corrupted.

If an elected Democrat loses, they still win.

WE, however, are not so lucky.

[RobertEarl]

14. Republicans are corrupted

Yeah, I don't think you quite get reality.

The system is corrupted because in the two party system we have, there are too many corrupt republicans in office. It isn't because there are too many corrupt Democrats. But the few bad Democrats is all you focus on?

It seems your message is: A few bad Democrats is why we are screwed.

Yeah, average Joe gets it. So he votes for the republicans who say that very same thing: A few bad Democrats is why we are screwed.

[stillwaiting]

19. I love having civil conversations. You're a peach.

I have no idea why you state that all I focus on are a few bad Democrats.

Where in the world are you getting this from?

I despise Republicans. I bash them ruthlessly, often, and with passion.

I'm done here. You can have the last word.

And, you DID make an incorrect statement when you said that Republicans got more votes. What you should have said is that Republicans won more elections.

When you stated that Republicans won more votes, that was you not quite getting reality.

[RobertEarl]

24. Here is what you wrote

And is what I see as your message:

"Democrats don't have a more unified and united message is because Wall Street has them thoroughly corrupted."

So don't go getting all preachy and holier than me when your message is that the Democrats are thoroughly corrupted. FTS.

[stillwaiting]

30. You might believe there are a few bad Democrats.

I believe there are a few GOOD Democrats.

With that said, I helped elect my Virginia State Senator recently who literally WON his very close election by 11 votes after the recount (initially he was up by 9).

My vote, my partner's vote, and the votes of friends and family that I successfully persuaded to vote for the Democratic candidate gave him his victory. Had I not done what I did for his election he would have lost. I am active, and I am persuasive.

I did this even though day after day I saw his TV ads where he continued to talk about cutting taxes, eliminating regulations, voting to eliminate the "death tax" (his wording), and how awful Obamacare is for people. My two Virginian Senators are both horribly conservative on economics. NO progress will happen for the majority of Americans in this country until more of us wake up and realize we have to elect more progressive congress critters.

I have voted in every single election I have been eligible for, and I have ALWAYS voted for the Democrat.

So DON'T YOU get all preachy with me.

I will continue to criticize the absolute tragedy that today's Democratic Party has become while also FORCEFULLY making it clear that Republicans are even worse. Much worse.

I believe in harm reduction, and that is why I will continue to vote Democratic. Please note that a reduction in harm still means that harm is occurring.

If you don't like my position, I could not give any less of a damn.

[NCTraveler]

16. For one, your post makes little sense with respect to my op.

Second.... whaaaaat? <- Not really asking you to elaborate.

[RobertEarl]

17. I'm not surprised

You don't even get the reality of: The only polls that really count, make your message to be untrue.

How could you understand much else if you don't even get that reality?

[NCTraveler]

20. This is why I didn't want you to elaborate. It just creates more questions about you and not my op.

Which I will not ask.

[RobertEarl]

23. You hate being questioned

I get that. I would to if I didn't have a firm grasp of reality. I feel your pain. But don't share it.

[NCTraveler]

31. You are very angy. You put words in peoples mouths.

It is a very dishonest debate tactic. You are a straight up bully. You have attempted to sidetrack my op. You are the only one who has tried to do that. All of the other responses are based directly from the op and well rooted in reality. Please start your own thread about your own concerns and deep rooted personal issues. Thank you.

[Eleanors38]

10. To start from a strong, progressive stance isn't done because

the Democratic "leadership" would signal to corporate power that the party is hostile to them. The present Democrats in charge MUST not do this; it is all important. And the GOP knows this as well. The Republicans, even when not in power, are in DOMINANCE. They stand over the Democratic Party like a wolf stands, growling down in contempt at a cowering, mangie pretender who isn't even in a pack. They use hateful, threatening language daily not just because they don't respect Democrats, but because increasingly the public doesn't either.

Watch the bully cow down someone in the schoolyard: He makes him/herself into the Second most loathed person.

[Dustlawyer]

12. It's because there is no REAL negotiation in the 1st place! Democrats play their role

but really answer to the same corporate masters. We are supposed to believe that these bright and ambitious politicians are genetically defective, in a word, "Spineless!" The word should be "Corrupt!" The Republicans are in the open as being bought off by BIG BUSINESS, the Democrats have to appear weak and ineffective, and we are supposed to blame the other party for why things are not going our way.
Why do you think Obama is asking for $10.10 minimum wage instead of $15.00 or more? Everyone knows the minimum wage has to be increased so Obama did his part by starting low.
Get the money out of our elections and then you may see real change, but not before. There is a reason why Wall Street only pays fines, no one goes to jail. Shit, no one gets indicted even!

[1StrongBlackMan]

18. I see the Administration's understanding of negotiations ...

to be far more comprehensive and informed than you.

A recognition of the gop opposition tactics, when combined with the need/desire to actually govern, while attempting to advance an agenda, affects the ultimate out come of the negotiation. In this case, we have a divided government where 1/3 of the Congress holds a majority of uncompromising and obstructionists, another 1/3 holds a significant minority that is uncompromising and obstructionist and in buttressed by several Democratic members that are afraid of their shadows. This necessarily, lowers the negotiation demand starting point, if you wish to actually govern.

The only solution that will net successful negotiations (in the eyes of the left) is to take the House and expand in the Senate.

[NCTraveler]

21. I actually think their negotiations are extremely comprehensive.

I just believe for different reasons than you. While I don't full agree with it, I appreciate your post.

[bemildred]

22. That's why we call it "Kabuki Theater", we think it's fake, show biz, drama.

Our leaders think that is how you lead a democracy, you bullshit the Rubes into acquiescing in what you want.

[I hate liars]

32. Democrats and Republicans are actors in a "scripted" drama...

Dems and Repugs both get promoted and elected from the same big pot of special interest money. With few exceptions, they understand the payoff that awaits them when they leave office, as long as they play their parts.

Spineless behavior occurs, but the root problem is the corrupting influence of big money, both before and after elective office.

The suppliers of all that money won't cast an actor in the role of a Congressman or Senator unless they're pretty sure they will deliver the performance they're being hired for.

Most of us live for the sane words that exceptions like Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Sherrod Brown, and a few others are allowed to utter in public, on limited media outlets.

[stillwaiting]

33. Spot on and well said.

System reboot needed pronto.

[gLibDem]

26. Or you could reasonably conclude that the Democrats

we are electing or center-right and they are getting the policies enacted that they wish.
Why else would Democrats be hopping aboard the Clinton Train?

[Armstead]

35. Because some have been CONNED by phony "centrist populism"

[Fantastic Anarchist]

27. Perhaps it's by design that they start from the centrist position. n/t

[mstinamotorcity2]

29. You are preaching to

the choir