Using the military and soldiers as props, and for war glory propaganda

[quinnox]

It has a long and sordid history. Has any modern day president not indulged in this faux patriotism display? It makes me nauseous that this practice is so common among our U.S. presidents. Glorifying war and the troops seems to be a standard part of our "USA! USA! USA!" nationalistic nation. It would be refreshing indeed if a president didn't do this during major speeches or hell, not at all during his presidency. Maybe glorifying peace or non-violence would be a better example. I know, I know, I am just a liberal dreamer. Sigh...

[geek tragedy]

1. jealous of the attention the other thread someone posted got? nt

[Andy823]

16. Seems that way, doesn't it

All day I keep reading BS about last night from the same old Obama haters. The same crowd that "never" likes anything the president says or does has had a field day trying to out BS the other Obama haters. It's pretty obvious this is just another one of the crowd trying to get their share of attention.

[Desert805]

78. Yep.

Well said. Last night was a fun read around this place, heh. So transparent...

That ridiculous 500 post+ thread sums up how off the rails folks here can get. What nonsense.

I said it before, but it's like reading political Spnal Tap. It's dry satire, right? That's how I read it anyway, in a faux rock and roller voice and all, lol. Morans!

[Number23]

81. Nailed it in Post #1!!

As if that other thread wasn't revolting enough, now we have its poorer, dumber, less attractive little brother.

[el_bryanto]

2. So we should be ashamed of our troops? Is that your argument? nt

[quinnox]

4. not at all

I think it would be a nice change of pace if the military war machine was not such a focus of our patriotism. Is that so terrible?

[brush]

74. Not so terrible at all . . .

And if you had watched you probably would not be posting this jump-on-the-solders-as-props bandwagon.

The President made a HUGE, HUGE policy statement about the military war machine last night. It made me sit up in my chair. He said we as a nation need to get off our "permanent war footing" — his exact words, juxtaposed next to the tribute to the solder who went through 10 deployments and was disfigured (did you miss this while reading the transcript or just ignore it?).

This was an obvious rebuke to the MIC and how it's warmongering requires solders to be deployed 10 times.

Never in my life time has an American president made anything close to such and anti-war statement.

He then followed that up with his promise to veto any legislation to add more sanctions to Iran that would scuttle the Iran nuclear negotiations — something being pushed by Senators Shumer of NY and Menendez of NJ, and of course AIPAC (an Israel lobby) because they want war, not diplomacy, with Iran.

[monmouth3]

3. If you are referring to last night, you couldn't be more wrong IMO...n/t

[quinnox]

5. I'm taking a broader perspective, about something all our presidents do

[FSogol]

14. Did you forget that the President is also the Commander-in-Chief?

How effective will the Commander-in-chief be if he hates (like some here seem to) the men and women in our armed services.

[quinnox]

20. So sounds like you agree with my main premise then

[FSogol]

23. Quinnox, if you said the sky was blue, I'd go outside and check. n/t

[KoKo]

44. True..we should not be always Waving the Flag and talking about War Heroes

as what America is about. People jumping up and applauding War and it's Casualties as if we are still winning WWII with the Brits is long past its time.

It's false Patriotism...when we have so many suffering here in the US and Crooked Banksters who caused our latest suffering are now given a RAISE after Settleing Law Suits by paying PENNIES on the BILLIONS of DOLLARS they gained in Bail Outs by Taxpayers for Criminal Behavior! And,JP Morgan & Jamie Dimon isn't the only one...but, the one who seems to keep getting off over and over again. There's a pretty good list of these criminals getting off "if they pays the money".. going on at this point.

[VanillaRhapsody]

6. funny I bet those that serve don't think their service to the country is "faux"

as you seem to!

My father is a career military man....I doubt very much he would agree with your assessment here!

[quinnox]

8. do you think I'm "un-American" for expressing these thoughts?

[VanillaRhapsody]

9. I think this particular one is yes...

its up to you to decide how much it reflects on what you truly believe...

Calling a career soldier who is a disabled veteran a "Prop or Tool" is definitely an unAmerican thing to say!

[Vattel]

40. Don't be deliberately obtuse.

Disabled soldiers can be used as props. To suggest that someone used a disabled soldier as a prop is to insult the one who used the person as a prop, not the one who was used as a prop.

[VanillaRhapsody]

43. That is not obtuse...I don't fall into "traps" set by those who want to control the narrative...

if the shoe fits...you can wear it too!

[NuclearDem]

85. Telling VR to not be deliberately obtuse is like telling salt to not be salty.

[Pathwalker]

7. "Prop" is short for property. People are NOT property.

That soldier is not anyone's property, and we need to see what war costs those we send to fight them.

[Control-Z]

10. The message I got

from last night was that perpetual war needs to stop. That our young men are being slaughtered and maimed. That peace is the answer.

The president in no way glorified war.

[quinnox]

12. What about in a historical sense. My OP is talking about that.

[Whisp]

58. Oh, I took it more in a hysterical sense.

must be my eyes.

[Andy823]

13. I agree with you

Why some here continue to try and make last night into some kind of political stunt by the president is simply insane! I got the same message you did, that wars need to stop and we need to put an end to the U.S. being in a constant state of war. Peace is the answer we should all be looking for.

[FSogol]

17. It is especially ridiculous that someone who bragged about not watching is quick to criticize.

[1000words]

22. The OP made no mention of the SOTU address

Even explained to another poster, he/she is speaking of the long history of the practice.

[FSogol]

24. He did last night. And it should be obvious what he's doing. n/t

[1000words]

28. Whether it was the case last night, or not ...

it is now a topic of general discussion.

You are free to hide the thread.

[FSogol]

31. And you are free to put me on ignore.

[1000words]

33. When you give me a reason, I will.

Odd request.

[VanillaRhapsody]

48. so everything on DU happens in a vaccum? Nothing you ever say in the past is supposed

to be "used against you in a court of law"...is THAT what you are saying?

So how long have you been using the binoculars backwards?

[VanillaRhapsody]

46. Even the Late Night talk shows were making fun of those who formed an opinion about the SOTU

without actually watching it for themselves....

They asked them...."how did you feel about Obama's fake heart attack at the end" LMAO

All I could think about was all the self centered psuedo-progressives who proudly proclaimed THEY too didn't watch it while forming opinions or just accepting someone elses!

[FSogol]

53. Self centered psuedo-progressives!

Anyone have the Jimmy Kimmel link?

[VanillaRhapsody]

62. I do!

&feature=share&list=UUa6vGFO9ty8v5KZJXQxdhaw&index=1

[FSogol]

87. LOL, Which one is Q in that video?

[Whisp]

61. o good lawd!

"how did you feel about Obama's fake heart attack at the end"

There IS joy in mudwrestlingville.

[Vattel]

41. Read what Obama said after introducing the soldier. What was the message there?

[FSogol]

11. LOL: You Better Believe It! You told us you didn't watch which explains why

you are so wrong. Once again.

[JI7]

15. seems like some are like Bush who didn't want anyone to see Coffins of Soldiers arriving home

[quinnox]

18. Didn't Bush often use soldiers as backdrops and so on

for propaganda and "Rah Rah" purposes. I think he did.

[JI7]

19. i don't remember them ever focusing on what soldiers went through during war

and afterwards.

[quinnox]

29. So you agree presidents will often use the military as props, or as backdrops

to got those patriotic juices flowing among the people.

[VanillaRhapsody]

49. Was that what Obama was doing? Cause that is not what I saw...

and when DID you watch the SOTU?

At least I DID watch....which is more than I can say for you and your "historical" evidence...

[TwilightGardener]

21. Were all the other guests at the SOTU props? Are only military members reduced to

hapless, childlike simpletons at public events, in the eyes of DU? I see signs of contempt for the military here. (And on the OTHER thread that started this bullshit).

[quinnox]

25. So you don't think presidents often use the military as props, or backdrops when giving speeches

to get those patriotic juices flowing. I disagree.

[TwilightGardener]

34. Not often, if the context makes sense. Are you a prop when your boss

wants to give you recognition at some event? The CiC commands the military. He is going to appear in public with them sometimes.

[TwilightGardener]

54. BTW, here is an example of using veterans as props:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014619616

[Cali_Democrat]

26. I thought you didn't watch the speech?

[quinnox]

32. I didn't

try reading the OP, its about the history of this practice.

[Cali_Democrat]

36. Oh...so the OP is just about the history of that practice

and has nothing to do with Obama's SOTU speech yesterday.

Well...you wouldn't even know what Obama said yesterday, because you didn't even watch!

[quinnox]

38. well, actually, I do know some of what he said, becasue I read some of the transcript

But yea, this OP is about the historical use of the military as a rallying symbol that presidents often seem to do.

[yeoman6987]

47. I don't believe that you are looking at this correctly

This was a large speech that the President gives every year. His number one job is to protect the United States and with that he is in charge of the entire military. He has an obligation to praise and "show off" his military. It is his primary job!

[quinnox]

51. and that can't change?

[truedelphi]

65. Well, what else can he say?

He certainly is not going to be allowed to tell the truth.

The whole thing about SOTU address is as a rallying cry for those deeply loyal to whichever party is in power.

And mention of the military allows for the President to fill in, and in as patriotic a way as possible, some few minutes.

[yeoman6987]

66. NO!

It is in the Constitution. No way will that change 3/4th of the Senate and 2/3 of the States.

[Adrahil]

76. The President is the Commander-in-Chief...

... and no, that won't change. One of the President's most important jobs is lead the nation's armed forces. And that's the way it should be.

[quinnox]

77. I'm more optimistic than that

And that is not the ideal situation. Definitely not!

[Adrahil]

82. Civilian control of the military is essential.

What else would you suggest? It is vitally important that direct control of the military remain in the hands of elected civilian leadership.

[quinnox]

83. I'm thinking long term

Maybe we can evolve to the point where the military becomes less and less relevant. I probably should have made that clear in my response. I'm talking more of a utopian scenario, futuristic, maybe it will take thousands of years.

But in the meantime, it would be great to see presidents maybe de-emphasize this aspect to an extent, it certainly couldn't hurt, in my view.

[VanillaRhapsody]

52. then how the hell would you know?

perhaps you should have watched it for yourself....perhaps others would take you more seriously. Some of us consider the SOTU required watching if you are a political hound...no matter which party is in power...

But forming opinions about the "optics" and you didn't even watch it...that is just ludicrous! and Disingenuous...and truly speaks volumes about YOUR motivations!

Here is how Jimmy Kimmel sees it when even NON political people make opinions about the SOTU without seeing it..

&feature=share&list=UUa6vGFO9ty8v5KZJXQxdhaw&index=1

[quinnox]

55. try reading the OP. Do you see the word "history" in the first sentence?

Now, try reading the rest.

[VanillaRhapsody]

59. So you weren't talking about THIS SOTU

epic back pedal Fail

[quinnox]

67. slowly but surely its dawning on you, what my OP says

Thanks for reading it.

[VanillaRhapsody]

68. No actually it isn't....you don't even realize when you are being made fun of!

such the authority on SOTU aren't you???

NOT!!!

[quinnox]

69. next time, try reading the OP before responding, It will make your posts

make a hell of a lot more sense. Maybe.

[VanillaRhapsody]

71. Next time try actually watching the SOTU...before forming your misguided opinions...

best advice I have for you...because your OP makes NO sense!

[quinnox]

73. Of course it doesn't. It has big, unfamiliar words like "history" in it

There are all kinds of free dictionaries on the internet.

[VanillaRhapsody]

75. back pedals are doing you no favors...

oh this is about the "historical" alright......like less than 24 hours of history....

[frwrfpos]

27. excellent post

recommending

[quinnox]

35. thanks!

[dem in texas]

30. You are so wrong!

The president was reminding us what our soldiers are going through. That young man had been deployed ten times, think of what he'd been through. I totally take my hat off to him. We are winding down the longest running war in our history. We need to be reminded about our soldiers have been through and their sacrifices. I don't think we see enough about them. One thing I do agree is I hate when they start chanting USA, USA.

[leanforward]

37. You are wrong.

Whether you are a liberal or a conservative, you honor the soldier, marine, sailor, airman, or coastie. I'm a nationalist Liberal. Also, a military brat and have had the occasion of being visited by a Company Commander and the Chaplin. You honor the men and women that have been out there recently or years ago giving us the freedoms we enjoy. Make a visit to the Tomb. You can speak your mind, but Teddy R. said something like "speak softly, but carry a big stick". Sleep well tonight, because we've got some guys out there that own the night for us.

[quinnox]

39. ok wow. So you are a proud "nationalistic lberal"

I don't know what to say, I don't understand that mindset.

[VanillaRhapsody]

70. agree...and I am a BRAT too!

[NuclearDem]

86. Nationalism isn't something to be proud of.

[FiveGoodMen]

88. A-fucking-men!!

[TheMathieu]

45. I'm more ashamed of those that find something wrong with honoring a wounded veteran.

Than those that are overly enthusiastic about it.

There's not many things that feel innately wrong, but finding fault with what a majority of people found to be heartwarming means more about the person who didn't more than anything.

[quinnox]

50. So would you agree with Vanilla's post above that those who don't buy into these military displays

used by our presidents throughout history, are perhaps un-American?

[1000words]

60. Is that what I'm missing by having that poster on ignore?

Wise choice, I made.

[quinnox]

63. Nah, I just asked him a question

but they don't answer. I brought it up, because I am curious.

[FSogol]

56. True. Welcome to DU. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

57. "Patriotism is the most foolish of passions and the passion of fools." Schopenhauer

[FiveGoodMen]

89. Not to mention...

"The last refuge to which a scoundrel clings
Steal a little and they'll throw you in jail
Steal a lot and they'll make you king"

--Dylan

[denbot]

64. That order of sacrifice deserves recognition for the individual, and those who share that burden.

The sergeant's tail is a cautionary one, at best. Don't expect the same recognition for yours or anyone else's solace in safety.

You may also note non-military struggles and sacrifices were also recognized during the SoTU address.

[truedelphi]

72. A President has to make use of whatever props are available.

Otherwise, the truth might be accidentally allowed to escape:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/29/1273308/-Sometimes-You-Just-Have-To-Tell-It-Like-It-Is-The-Real-State-of-the-Union

Of course, I wish the system of military prop use was more quid pro quo. You know, so that for every few minutes that a President uses the troops as props, then there is 10,000 times those minutes spent sorting out various serious problems that plague the VA.

[Union Scribe]

79. Yep. Props AND pawns.

The insult to service members is sending them to die and be maimed for no justifiable reason. If politicians want to honor those sacrifices they should stop treating soldiers like Kleenex.

[quinnox]

80. +1000

That is the truth.

[hrmjustin]

84. I think our troops are worthy to be praised as is peace.

I think that was a great moment last night.