I don't think I've ever been as disgusted at a DU jury as I am right now

[abq e streeter]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by azurnoir (a host of the General Discussion forum).

I'm not sure this is the right place for this but I'm so outraged I can't think straight.
This post , in response to an OP about a woman who was murdered at her place of work (a pizza place) in an act of domestic violence, was actually upheld 3 -3.....

"Yes the pizza is that freaking bad!"

Yeah, real funny...And yet upheld as OK.
WTF ?????????????

[pothos]

1. it's just another commentary

on the value of women's bodies in our society

[abq e streeter]

2. We ,as progressives are supposed to be better than that

Apparently at least 4 people here (the poster and the 3 jurors who upheld the post) aren't.

[roguevalley]

16. I remember when a couple of guys outed themselves as rapists

on a thread. No amount of pleading with the mods got that taken down. Sometimes this place just reeks.

[nilram]

24. "I'm a rapist and I'm sorry" or "I'm a rapist and I'd do it again"?

[tblue37]

34. If it is the thread I am thinking of, the OP basically said that taking advantage

of drunk, incapacitated or unconscious girls at parties used to be SOP, and no one considered it criminal or even rape at all. He admitted having done it a couple of times himself, though he said he wouldn't do such a thing now.

I think his point was to suggest that when he and his pals did it back then, they were not being evil, just uninformed. Perhaps a secondary, implied intention was to suggest that teenaged boys who rape drunk girls might be "victims" of ignorance combined with peer pressure, so that instead of "ruining their lives", we should be more concerned with educating them about what constitutes rape.

Of course that is a bunch of BS. There is no way a bunch of guys raping a drunk girl or hooting and hollering while one or more of their friends rape her are unaware that what they are doing is evil. Furthermore, they often deliberately get inexperienced girls drunk specifically *because* they know those girls would not consent to sex if they were able to.

Whether it is one guy taking a drunk girl to a room to rape her or several treating it as a team sport, I believe they know it is wrong now, and guys knew it was wrong back then.

[Beacool]

100. I remember that post.

He got a lot of well deserved grief for it. Teenage boys know exactly well that forcing themselves on an incapacitated girl is defined as rape. What's even more disgusting is how many parents defend their boys for such an act. If any of those boys was a son of mine, he better hope that the cops get to him first.

[Squinch]

171. But he didn't get banned. One of the many reasons I've let my star expire.

[Beacool]

172. Good point.

There's no excusing rapists.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

163. I remember those posts. "We ALL did it back in the '70s!"

I don't remember the poster's name... wonder if he's still with us.

[DiverDave]

178. Um, I didnt

and it sickens me that someone would do it.
My mates and I never even thought about it.
If anyone I know did it, they never bragged, because we would have kicked his ass.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

179. That was the general consensus of DUers...

as they set this guy straight. Wish I could remember his name. I did my fair share of '70s & '80s partying, and in my circles, what he described was in no way considered even remotely the norm.

[awoke_in_2003]

180. And the sorry thing is...

if you call him out your post would be removed. The jury system sucks.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

159. Do you have a link to that?

Thanks.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

93. Why do you assume everyone on this board is a "we progressives"?

It's an open website, anyone can join. At times, the place seems over-run with Conservative Cavers, Malkin faithful, bored cube dwellers, etc. here to do nothing but shit-stir.

[LeftyMom]

3. But there's no misogyny on DU.

[Hekate]

22. oh none at all

[lumberjack_jeff]

91. Gimme a break. Those kinds of crass jokes don't happen when the victim is male?

The post deserved to be hidden but we wouldn't be outraged at the fact that a jury didn't hide it if the victim had been a man.

No. There is no misogyny on DU.

[LeftyMom]

113. A woman was murdered and you're still banging your male oppression drum.

Fuck off.

[lumberjack_jeff]

120. Here's an interesting observation vis-a-vis dysfunctional juries.

On Fri Feb 14, 2014, 12:26 PM you sent an alert on the following post:

A woman was murdered and you're still banging your male oppression drum.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4499887

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS

"fuck off" is "disruptive, hurtful rude insensitive... and otherwise inappropriate"... right?

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Fri Feb 14, 2014, 12:37 PM, and voted 2-4 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

It seems that "Fuck off" as a complete and standalone body text isn't disruptive, rude, hurtful or inappropriate. Good to know! Thanks jury!

Not that I really care, because I'm perfectly capable of communicating on that basis too, if that is the preferred community standard... although I doubt that DU, despite being the hotbed of misogyny that it apparently is would put up with that kind of rude shit directed at posters with "mom" in their handle.

Leftymom... "fuck off?" really? Do you kiss your kids with that mouth?

Luckily for you, DU gives you the tools; there actually is a "fuck off" button, it's labeled "ignore".

Happy valentines day. As if.

[Whisp]

152. context is everything

I sure would have let that Stand, and probably do a congratulatory note in the comments.

The jury system sure does suck, but hey, what's good for geese is good for ganders as well. I am glad some geese get some breaks here too.

[HuckleB]

165. So, you think the jury system sucks, but you'll work to keep it that way?

Hmmmmm.

[Whisp]

168. I judge each alert to it's own merits. some suck, some don't. n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

185. Well bless your heart.

If you think that helping DU suck is the best way to retaliate against those on your shit list, there's probably nothing that could be said to change your mind.

Why wait for the opportunity to offer a congratulatory note for someone else's abusive spittle-flecked inchoate profanity laced diatribe? Why not summon the courage to say it yourself?

[Whisp]

192. erm.

Bless You Too!

[LanternWaste]

131. The imaginative and creative ways we rationalize our denial of a thing are often legion

The imaginative and creative ways we rationalize our denial of a thing are often legion, as are our myriad prophecies of what "might have been if" to better justify what actually is...

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

174. Remember the guy who fell off the cliff during his honeymoon?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023635729#post1

Yuk yuk....

[DonCoquixote]

4. I said it once twice and thrice

as the attempting witch burning of certain of my friends here shows (hint, rhymes with "see Bee OND&quot a lot of little wimps (and no they do not deserve the title of men) hide behind the juries here.

[Kurovski]

11. "The alert stalking claim is bogus."

"The number of alerts is very small, and even if they don't result in a hidden post the vast majority of them are legitimate. Certainly some people alert more than others, but we don't see anyone doing it in a manner that is abusive. Yes, some alerts are occasionally bogus, and yes sometimes people alert on other people multiple times -- I have even done so myself from time-to-time. But the system has shown itself repeatedly to be self-regulating -- juries rarely if ever hide posts that do not deserve to be hidden, and if a person sends an alert that is found to be bogus they temporarily lose their ability to alert.

The alert stalking claim persists because some people here want it to persist. They don't want to consider the possibility that their own posts were hidden because they deserved to be hidden on the merits. "

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12594479

[JTFrog]

18. Nobody said a thing about alert stalking.

Have you seen some of the comments on the jury results directed at her? A few have been posted publicly. That would be "hiding behind a jury".

But surely, you can't let an opportunity slide to try claim that this shit doesn't happen here.

[Renew Deal]

45. "Witch burning" is two posts above this one

That one is about alert stalking.

[chillfactor]

5. what a disgusting comment...

makes me sick inside that the death of a woman becomes a place for "humor"....and the jury was just as bad as the OP....what kind of people serve on some of these juries? I wonder if it had been one of their relatives shot to death... people react only to what personally affects them......everything else is just a joke to these people..they should be damned ashamed of themselves!!!

[Whisp]

29. shitstains, that's what kind of people.

and I can take some good guesses.

[Dorian Gray]

30. Honestly

I would never post anything like that. I think it's crass and inhumane. But I probably would have let it stand if I were on the jury. I want people to see the jerky things other people say. It outs them for the callous people they are.

[kcr]

38. They can still see it if they click on show post

So I still vote to hide stuff like that.

[boston bean]

64. Plus, if one doesn't hide something the person feels more

emboldened to keep posting crapola.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

122. After Newtown, a host, and I believe former moderator, made disgusting remarks...

seemingly while he was stroking his gun(s). It was truly vile, and DUers pounced, making observations of true character being revealed. The OP was deleted, after Skinner weighed in.

Should be ashamed? Yes. Was ashamed? No. There's too much of that in this world.

(12/16/12 GD)

[liberal_at_heart]

6. why so surprised? There are jerks everywhere including on DU. You can't get rid of them all.

Just put them on ignore. I stay out of the gender wars because I do get offended by the misogyny, but some here would not consider me a feminist because I am not aggressive enough. I have better things to do with my time than bicker back and forth. Truly the best thing to do is to put them on ignore.

[abq e streeter]

12. I was more disgusted at the post being upheld than the post itself.

I thought if there was ever a slam dunk "hide it", this would be one.

[Violet_Crumble]

14. Yeah, that really bothers me as well...

It would have been a no-brainer to vote to hide if I'd been on that jury, especially after watching the person who posted the offensive comment refuse to self-delete after being asked to by other DUers. I've got friends who've made jokes (and that one wasn't even funny) in bad taste, but I've seen them apologise if people they're telling it to take offense. Watching the doubling down on this one then finding out a jury voted to leave it is pretty disgusting

[bluedigger]

7. I don't even know why the OP is in GD.

I didn't see anything of interest to anyone not personally involved with it. The only comment was that the media reports were inconsistent. Maybe we should all post our local domestic violence stories in GD. I do agree that the "joke" was in extreme poor taste, though.

[Control-Z]

13. Where would you suggest?

Somewhere hidden away so the vast General Discussion readers won't have to be bothered with such trivial events?

Domestic violence should be important to all Democrats. Period.

[bluedigger]

15. State forums, maybe.

I agree domestic violence is a pressing issue for all Americans. But this report really doesn't rise to a national story. It adds nothing to our understanding of the causes nor does it suggest any solutions. Sadly, it is just one of numerous deplorable incidents that occur on a daily basis. It's the internet equivalent of rubbernecking a traffic accident.

[cui bono]

19. Gun violence is a national story to a lot of people.

I don't think it's rubbernecking when there's an obvious problem of gun violence in this country and a debate about gun restrictions going on.

[Eleanors38]

66. A gun was used. A knife? Probably wouldn't be posted.

Some groups are pushing to expand their TOS.

[lostincalifornia]

8. you have a point. Extremely bad taste

[Mojorabbit]

26. Yes it was bad taste

But as a former nurse, dark humor can get one through emotionally dealing with the worst of what humans can do to each other.

[Blue_Adept]

33. We all have different coping mechanisms.

And that's certainly one of them for a lot of people. "If I joke about it, I can reduce its impact on me."

But we're all so quick to judge each other that it can just redouble the feelings instead.

[mythology]

39. As somebody who is rather fond of dark humor,

there is a problem with using it on the internet.

It's a lot harder to for others to understand if the comment is intended as black humor or sheer asshattery. I've found it's best left to being used in person. Additionally in person, it's a lot easier to direct the comment at somebody you know who will understand it. Online, the audience is far less directed.

For example, I have referred to one of my best friends as a wench. Usually after she has verbally one upped me and I don't have an actual retort. But I wouldn't call a random woman a wench because they might not understand that it's not my personal view on women, and it's not meant as an insult but it's an admission that I was just verbally bested (which I not only thoroughly approve of women doing, I wish more women would enjoy verbal sparring)

[lostincalifornia]

40. We are not in a clinical environment, or a war zone, we are on a progressive message forum.

[L0oniX]

51. +1

Ambulance crews too.

[Cha]

9. Since when is a murder victim subject to sick humor on DU?

[In_The_Wind]

32. I haven't seen the thread in question.

Yet ...

[JI7]

10. those type of comments are not unusual on such threads

[azurnoir]

17. well if it's any consolation all alerts get sent to admins for review

regardless of whether the post is hidden or not

[cui bono]

20. Just as bad was that poster's response when I said that was bad form.

Terribly immature.

[abq e streeter]

21. I alerted on that too.Upheld 5 to 1

[cui bono]

23. That one actually made me pretty mad

so I stepped away so I wouldn't say something I would regret.

[blkmusclmachine]

25. Sucks. So much for the "Big Tent."

[Le Taz Hot]

27. I alerted on a "joke" the other day about

that gay football player's father taking one of his sons to Mexico to have sex. Some asshole "joked": "Sometimes you just gotta have a taco" and the jury let it stay. Couldn't believe it. In times past that would NEVER EVER have stayed. Seems we have a bunch of adolescent boys that have recently come on board and too many DUers who have never grown out of that stage.

The only choice I had was to put the asshole on ignore as I don't want to see any more of his "jokes."

[L0oniX]

48. ...and there are many who would hide anything containing the word "fuck".

Fuck that! IMO the mod system was as good as it gets.

[Le Taz Hot]

55. Many? Really?

[L0oniX]

56. IMO.

[Jakes Progress]

85. IYSO

[morningfog]

28. Long time disruptors and poor juries.

[KG]

31. jury system is a joke. unchecked that box about two weeks after it was implemented.

[seabeyond]

35. that would be our community standard that our community creates. i think the administration had

higher hopes for us. alas, this is what we get.

i hear your disgust.... i have been there myself.

[ananda]

36. Juries here can be corrupted by infiltrators and trolls.

...

[CreekDog]

47. i think that's true

a while back the admins banned someone as homophobic with a long pattern of those kind of posts.

they had served on 137 juries.

[pipi_k]

57. Just wondering

how that happens.

Since Skinner himself has stated quite a few times that is not the case.

[Lost_Count]

37. Ahhh gallows humor...

Where would I be without you...?

[L0oniX]

46. An ambulance crew would get banned here for their humor.

[Lost_Count]

53. Most Soldiers as well...

[pipi_k]

60. And what about

wakes/funerals...

Sometimes the humor there can be pretty disturbing, but for some people, it's the only way they can cope with something that terrifies them.

[Shrike47]

114. Juvenile court lawyers and criminal prosecution/defense lawyers would be right out.

We used to keep a bulletin board with highlights of things people told psychologists, like why they always try to run over cats.

It's either laugh or kill yourself.

[opiate69]

142. no doubt.. my sister's an EMT, and her Facebook feed would cause a massive meltdown here

Personally, I find her posts like "going to bed now.. please, no dreams of dead babies tonight" far more disturbing (and tragic) than any "gallows humor" stuff she posts.

[el_bryanto]

41. Would that response have been acceptable if the person killed was a man?

Then again maybe we wouldn't be talking about it - do you have a link to the story? Or where did it happen?

Bryant

[cui bono]

155. No, it would not have been. n/t

[randome]

42. If it was a guy who was killed, would you feel the same way?

It's gallows humor. Intent is what matters.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[Blue_Tires]

43. If that shocks you, see the kind of stuff that gets a pass in the subforums

the jury system is flawed....

[chrisa]

44. I wouldn't hide - It's dark humor

Yeah, it's sad that someone was murdered, but dark humor can lighten up the mood a little. I've always found getting offended at dark humor silly.

[CreekDog]

50. the problem is that trolls use dark humor inappropriately to disrupt, not lighten the mood

it is often calculated to cause argument and even pain.

[randome]

62. No one can 'disrupt' unless someone gets outraged.

Ignoring comments in obvious bad taste is a sound remedy, IMO.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)[/center][/font][hr]

[redqueen]

72. So... misogyny isn't a problem, but "outrage" over misogyny is a problem? nt

[randome]

74. Where is the misogyny? Gender had nothing to do with the joke.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]“If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.”
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)[/center][/font][hr]

[redqueen]

79. Ok so - making jokes about murder victims isn't a problem?

There's a very well-known concept wherein comedians won't make jokes about death until the event is far enough removed in time that it won't cause any unintended emotional distress to their audience.

Is it truly too much to expect here? Some claim that its gallows humor but this isn't an ER or a battlefield, so that excuse falls flat.

[randome]

83. So it's a joke about death and not misogyny, then.

I'm not saying anyone doesn't have a right to see it in bad taste or even to be offended. Just that it was someone's idea of gallows humor.

I don't see it as an indictment of the jury system is all.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]If you don't give yourself the same benefit of a doubt you'd give anyone else, you're cheating someone.[/center][/font][hr]

[redqueen]

89. You said it should be ignored and that the real problem is that people are "outraged".

My opinion is that that attitude is why there is so much horrible shit tolerated on this site (some of it misogynist, some racist, some callously inconsiderate of others in general as in this case, etc.)

You seem to think the state of DU is A-OK with respect to the tolerance juries have for over the top, ugly bullshit. Others disagree.

[randome]

95. I would simply say that being offended does not always require a response.

Sometimes ignoring what some anonymous poster on an Internet discussion forum says is the best way to deal with something. Especially when there is at least the possibility that the intent was not to offend.

Just my opinion.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Sometimes it seems like the only purpose in life is to keep your car from touching another's.[/center][/font][hr]

[Warren Stupidity]

76. The problem with that is the joke works

regardless of the gender. If it didn't it would be misogyny.

[Nye Bevan]

63. How about yukking it up over a teenage girl getting electrocuted?

http://election.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=8877501&mesg_id=8877661

Is that "appropriate" dark humor?

[pintobean]

68. Lol!

Nice find.

[CreekDog]

77. I thought it was Margaret Thatcher, no wonder it offended you

[Nye Bevan]

84. Really? The OP said that the dead girl was "Maria Barbu, age 17, of Brasov, Romania".

So your confusion is a little confusing.

[CreekDog]

166. i thought that was an alias

[Skip Intro]

196. Woah. n/t

[Skip Intro]

195. "calculated to cause argument" - are you fucking kidding me?

You're complaining about that?

You?

Dayum, pot, meet kettle.

[Logical]

169. Then you are part of the problem here! Disgusting! nt

[chrisa]

181. Lighten up, Francis

[url][/url]

[Logical]

198. Wow, movie quote. Classy. n-t

[Boom Sound 416]

49. Win some, lose some

Now dust yourself off and get back in there

[treestar]

52. It goes in meta, which is no longer

The jury system allows for that. As long as people can remain untombstoned, anything goes as long as any random jury has 3 people willing to leave it up.

[Lifelong Protester]

54. Disgusting comment.

I would have said "hide". Folks, in an effort to be witty, let's not forget ourselves here.

[kcr]

58. I just served on a jury for a really bad one.

I hope it comes back a vote to hide.

[kcr]

59. Ugh, no hide on my jury. Hey, it's steak and a blowjob day, everyone!

Frigging jury system.

[Kurovski]

177. Could you post the PM results?

Standard procedure when discussing results, to help us know what you're talking about. Thanks.

[Vashta Nerada]

61. This sounds meta to me.

[Ohio Joe]

65. Why would this surprise you?

I've twice seen rape defended here in the last few days with hardly a word said about it. Fuckin-A, we have a whole group dedicated to nothing but harassment of DU's feminists and spreading MRA talking points.

[pintobean]

69. Got links, Joe?

[Ohio Joe]

73. Sure...

Not enough like rape:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014726959#post21

It's not rape if she was drinking:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024487604#post6

[pintobean]

78. Where exactly is "rape defended"?

The first one is a discussion of legal terms. Different crimes in most jurisdictions.

The second one is just a question about the article that was quoted. "is it reasonable to automatically conclude?".

Neither link shows anyone defending rape.

[Ohio Joe]

90. I see... Making some distinction on the level of rape is not defending it?

Coming up with excuses to justify why it is a woman's fault, or that it is simply too hard to figure out if it was rape, if she is raped when drinking is not defending it either?

Yes... Yes, I understand your point of view completely.

[pintobean]

92. My point of view

is not to assume the worst of DUers by reading things that aren't there. If you want to believe you can read minds, go ahead. All I see is what is posted.

[Ohio Joe]

112. ahhh... You need to see them say 'Hi, I'm here to defend rape' before you think they do it...

No wonder some people never see any misogyny... They just refuse to see it.

[pintobean]

124. No, I would have to see them actually defend rape

to accuse them of defending rape. The fact that you are the only one who thinks they see this should be a clue for you. Unless you're just trying to trash a couple of DUers and hope your accusations stick.

[Ohio Joe]

128. Then what is your line to make the leap?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024498066#post119

Do you think that there are different levels of rape that makes one... 'less offensive' or some such, then the other? Do you really think making such distinctions in the thread where that rape is being discussed is not defending it? What do you think it is?

[pintobean]

130. They are legally different

with different penalties. Take it up with your representatives.

[Ohio Joe]

132. Which answers nothing of what I asked...

I'm shocked.

[Comrade Grumpy]

119. Not, it's not, and that's a scurrilous accusation you're tossing around.

Teenager voluntarily has sex with an adult, even though under the age of consent.

Teenager is physically attacked, restrained, and forcibly penetrated.

Are you telling me there is no difference between the two scenarios? They are exactly the same thing?

[Ohio Joe]

123. Yes, they are the same

They are under the age of consent for a reason... That an adult rapes them with or without force does not make it one bit less of a rape.

[one_voice]

154. hmmm...going to disagree with you...

A 16 year old consents to have sex with a 19 year old is not the same as forcible rape. It's not even in the same category.

A 15 year old 'consenting' to sex with a 35 year old...that's another story.

[Ohio Joe]

156. The discussion is not about a 16 and a 19 years old kids...

It is about a state trooper and a 15 year old girl... It is rape.

[one_voice]

157. I replied to you saying that this...

Teenager voluntarily has sex with an adult, even though under the age of consent.

Teenager is physically attacked, restrained, and forcibly penetrated.

Are you telling me there is no difference between the two scenarios? They are exactly the same thing?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4499960


was exactly the same thing:

Yes, they are the same

They are under the age of consent for a reason... That an adult rapes them with or without force does not make it one bit less of a rape.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4500029



I responded to what was written. There were no specifics in yours or the other comment.

I agree a 15 year old & a state trooper is wrong.

As for 16 & 19 year old kids....there have been 18 &19 year old boys slapped with the sex offender label cuz daddy's little girl had sex with him. The girl being 16. That's wrong.

Search the internet the stories are there. That's the point I was making.

[Ohio Joe]

162. There are links further up in the sub-thread, I assumed you had read more then the last two posts

I did not think I would have to re-hash the whole thing.

[JTFrog]

144. You seriously don't know what statutory rape is?

Last edited Fri Feb 14, 2014, 03:08 PM - Edit history (1)

And you guys moan and complain at the people who try to educate here?

Rape is rape.

Unfuckingbelievable.

[Duckhunter935]

129. It is not nt

[BainsBane]

75. You're the best, Joe!

[Comrade Grumpy]

115. Your assertion is way over the top and mischaracterized what I said.

But I expect that from the perpetually outraged.

[Ohio Joe]

121. No... Not one bit...

You see... In a thread about someone trying to get their job back after raping a 15 years old, someone tries to make a distinction about the level of the rape... They are defending the rape. It is no different then the 'forcible rape', the 'but she was drunk rape' or the 'she was asking for it rape' non-sense.

If you want to dismiss that I do not accept levels of rape as me being "perpetually outraged"... Meh... I'll take that from where it comes.

[Squinch]

175. And yet no one had to say that the post was yours.... Hmmmmm......

Somehow you just knew.

[geek tragedy]

67. misogyny is not a violation of DU community standards. Lots of misogynist trolls get banned

despite having zero hidden comments.

[redqueen]

71. That speaks volumes. nt

[B Calm]

70. If it's of any comfort, hidden posts are viewed more than

the ones that are not!

[DesMoinesDem]

80. I can't imagine what life is like

for someone that gets so outraged that they can't think straight over a joke on the internet.

Jesus.

[abq e streeter]

81. Good point.Let me know when a loved one of yours is murdered , so I can post some jokes about it.

[LanternWaste]

133. I'd place then in the same context as the person

I'd place then in the same context as the person whose life lacks both shame and standards...


(six of one, half a dozen of the other, both as petulant as the other-- insert rationalization here...)

[Rex]

82. That is not a violation of CS or TOS.

I agree that it might be in poor taste, but NOT against the rules here.

[abq e streeter]

86. Insensitivity is listed as a reason to alert

You did not find this just a teensy bit insensitive? Good to know...

[Rex]

87. I guess you are just oversensitive.

I said it was in poor taste, did you just ignore my post?

[cally]

96. I find your post insensitive and outrageous

so I guess I'm "oversensitive" because I disagree with you? Please stop using the sexist insults because you disagree with someone.

[Rex]

102. Then alert on it!

Sexist? My you are really grasping at straws.

[Puzzledtraveller]

117. nuts aint it?

aw damn, I said "nuts" .

[pintobean]

108. "sexist insults"?

I'm not seeing it.

[Rex]

111. Well that is what I get for agreeing with the OP!

I guess just saying it was in 'poor taste' is not enough...I guess the OP wanted me to say that the offender should be beaten within an inch of their lives!

[BlueStreak]

145. Either the forum follows rules or it doesn't. The system is not there to address every sensitivity

It seems to me the DU terms are reasonable and not too difficult to interpret, And in this case, I agree with anyone who says it was a bod joke at a bad time, but people just need to get a little thicker skin. This is surely not the greatest offense every committed at DU. I would have voted to keep it even though I think it should not have been posted.

And here's a question for the outraged OPer. Did you send a private message to the person who offended you and politely ask if he would self-delete? You know, a polite request can go a long way in situations like this. If somebody politely asked me to delete or reword something like that, I would. And if they alerted on me, then f*** them.

Stop wasting our time if you didn't even ask the poster to edit the comment.

[Rex]

149. I think that is an excellent suggestion!

Try PMing the person and see if they will edit the post!

[BlueStreak]

150. I have made stupid posts before and most were upheld by juries, rightly.

But if someone politely pointed out the error of my ways, I would be happy to amend or delete my comments in almost every case. This hair trigger alert business is bullshit. If one has a problem with somebody's comments, ask them politely to reconsider. I bet people will in 95% of the cases.

And if it it done through a polite PRIVATE message, I bet people will fix it in almost every case.

I am left to conclude that the people why are using the alert system as an attack weapon are not interested in improving the quality of the discourse at DU. They are just interested in bringing drama onto themselves.

[abq e streeter]

98. Yes,as someone who has had family and friends murdered, I now realize I'm just being oversensitive

Maybe I'll even post a few jokes about them as well . And maybe you can let us know when someone close to you is shot and killed at her place of work and we can all have a few yuks about it. Even if it's in "poor taste" ...Nothing more than that ,old chum, certainly nothing to get riled about or god forbid , have a jury decide it was inappropriate..

[Rex]

103. You got told you were wrong by 3 people, if you cannot get over it

then I guess nothing will help you with your outrage. You can completely ignore my post, I don't care as I see you are not here to discuss the topic.

Have a great day yelling at the wall.

[LanternWaste]

136. I had little idea people predicated their ideas of what is or is not right or wrong...

"You got told you were wrong by 3 people.."

I had little idea people predicated their ideas of what is or is not right or wrong on mere popularity contests. That too, I imagine is rather convenient...

[Rex]

138. Yeah some people cannot handle being told they are wrong

as is evident all over GD. Heaven forbid someone be able to self-reflect. Guess that would be inconvenient.

[opiate69]

164. derp.

[LanternWaste]

134. I imagine it''s much more convenient for the self-absorbed to label others as oversensitive

I imagine it''s much more convenient for the self-absorbed to label others as oversensitive rather than examining one's own lack of sensitivity...

[Rex]

137. Funny...the first two words in my original post are...I AGREE.

But it seems the self-righteous cannot take five seconds to read what I posted. Way to continue that tradition.

[Jesus Malverde]

88. I was wondering what DU needs to do to attract

a younger audience.

Outrage like this, tells me we'll never have a place for a new generation at the DU table.

Humor is just that, humor, sometimes it's gross, sometimes it's stupid, sometimes it's great. You either laugh or don't. It's obvious the poster made not the smartest joke, but it was a joke.

Replying to that poster with might have been more appropriate than an OP cause you lost a weak alert.

[abq e streeter]

94. By all means, let's start encouraging jokes about murder. Maybe genocide, rape.. the list is endless

[Jesus Malverde]

105. Your being disingenuous..

I was suggesting dealing with funny "duds" in thread. Not starting over the top OP's.

Your OP and ongoing over the top outrage reminds me of affinity trolling.

Are you trying to disrupt DU with a meta thread in GD, populated with outlandish replies?

The weekend hasn't even started....

[Rex]

107. I think you are spot on!

As my original post was ignored so that further outrage could continue. I guess even when I agree, I still get told off...seems kinda disingenuous like you say.

[NutmegYankee]

188. I've noticed a generation gap on DU for quite awhile.

Late Gen X and Millennials can be pretty cynical and dark in their humor.

[Jesus Malverde]

191. and love memes...

[NutmegYankee]

193. How could I forget that?

[Jesus Malverde]

194. heh!..nt

[Mosby]

97. It's the DUzy effect at work

Some posters like the attention they get from a good one liner. It gets out of hand like your example.

[TheSarcastinator]

99. hyperbolic outrage over inconsequentialities does more harm than good

Your over-the-top response says as much about your personal shortcomings as the failed attempt at gallows humor says about that poster.

May I advise taking a clue from your avatar: spark a fat one and have a conversation with your higher self -- a little "I & I" dialogue, if you will -- about how your upset causes you more harm than the thing that upset you. Breathe, remember that most people use gallows humor to process tragedy and not to excuse it, and recall that no matter the path we take, every one of us is headed toward the Big Zero. We may as well laugh and joke about it -- and yes, that means bad jokes in poor taste as well -- along the way.

[TheSarcastinator]

110. and it makes you an easy target for trolls and other offenders

Just out of curiosity, why do you think we teach children that "words will never hurt us"? It's because each of us needs a thick skin to survive in harsh world. People say things we think are terrible -- even when they are just using gallows humor as tool for emotional processing -- all the time, especially on the intertubes.

Do you really believe that the person who made that bad joke wanted to hurt you or cause you pain? Of course they didn't. The joke itself was a play on the completely idiotic and random nature of violence in our culture. The point of the joke was this woman's death was so pointless, tragic and absurd that it may as well have been over the pizza. It could have been over loud music, or texting over the previews at a movie, or while walking home with Skittles and soda from the 7-11. All of these are absurd and ridiculous -- we use gallows humor to understand and attempt to process that absurdity. No one was being intentionally hurtful to you.

[Kelvin Mace]

104. Black humor

is a perilous endeavor. It offends as many as it amuses.

Black humor should be used sparingly with an eye towards one's audience and the likely reception.

Juries can be maddening things. Using an even number with ties going to the poster is done in the tradition of affording the benefit of a doubt to the accused. I favor that tradition, even when I don't like its results.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

106. Not Surprised ... Lighten Up, Francis ... but, seriously

I understand about Dark Humor. I live there, in that place, a lot.

but, that 'joke' fails for me because it is not so much Dark as just Stupid.

[KamaAina]

109. And yet, I managed to get a B-bomb hidden yesterday

even though it was aimed at Caribou Barbie.

[noamnety]

118. Probably because

gender slurs attack all members of a gender indirectly.

You know how when republicans call Obama the N word, it's not about Obama, it's a wider statement about supporting and reinforcing bigotry against all black people?

Same thing. Even if you don't see a connection, I'm relieved when DU juries get it.

[JTFrog]

146. +1 n/t

[bettyellen]

151. good hide. progressives should not slur women here. it doesn't matter if it's Palin or Hillary.

[pintobean]

158. Just women? It's okay to slur men?

[bettyellen]

160. where did you get that nutty idea? not from me, LOL.

Last edited Fri Feb 14, 2014, 04:22 PM - Edit history (1)

we are talking about using the word b*%$h here, try and stay OT, for fuck's sake.
Maybe discuss things people actually SAID, and not some foolish imaginary nonsense? That would be nice.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

199. why don't you go to the African American group and ask them why it's ok to slur white people?

Oh right, you only show up to make catty remarks like that at women.

[pintobean]

201. This is GD, Blanche

not the safe haven meta hof group.

[Shoulders of Giants]

116. I personally would never remove any post ever.

Thats a terrible post, but maybe the 3 jurors had the same viewpoint as me. I'm a 1st amendment absolutist. Maybe the other 3 are like me. I know this is still a private forum, and DU has the right to remove any post. However, I wouldn't ever serve on a jury, or even know how. But still, just because someone didn't vote to have the post removed, doesn't mean that they approve of it.

[Nye Bevan]

126. My sister-in-law's friend makes $8000 per month posting links on the internet.

Would you hide that, posted by a very low-count poster, in a totally unrelated thread?

[grahamhgreen]

140. OOOH! Where to get the job???? Please find out and post for out of work DU'ers!!!

[Shoulders of Giants]

141. Well I have no intention of ever serving on a jury.

If it was posted by an auto-bot spamming everything up, then yes, I don't see that as censorship. I would never remove any post, no matter how vile, if it was actually written by a human. I realize DU has a different policy, and that is their right. However, I personally would still feel like I was engaging in censorship if I served on a jury and voted to remove a post. Therefore, if I ever got a jury request, I'd decline it. I wouldn't ever alert a post either. I just don't believe censoring a viewpoint means the viewpoint no longer exists. Sunlight is a lot of times the best disinfectant.

[bettyellen]

161. and turn this place into a useless shithole like 4chan? No thanks.

the first amendment has nothing to do with message boards, BTW. LOL.

[Shoulders of Giants]

183. I know the first amendment has nothing to do with message boards.

DU is a private organization and has the right to make their own choices. I respect that. I'm just speaking from my viewpoint. I wouldn't feel right removing any post. That's just me though. That's why I don't serve on any juries or even alert any posts. I'm not advocating a policy change here. I'm just saying what I feel comfortable doing. If someone made a post saying absolutely terrible things about me, i wouldn't even alert that. I'd just answer it.

[bettyellen]

184. well, I appreciate having a space that is not "everything goes". lots of great people do NOT

have any interest in that ugly shit. Unmoderated sites are incredibly hostile towards women, and liberals in general. I have no interested in any more trolls than we host here already.

[JTFrog]

187. Well if it makes you feel any better, "hidden"

messages are not "removed". They are still there to click on if one really desires. There are very few posts that are actually "removed" from DU these days. Spam would be an example.

So, I don't have any qualms whatsoever hiding offensive posts on DU. When a post gets hidden, the poster is merely locked out of the thread. Unless they rack up 5 hidden posts within 90 days, the consequences of a hidden post are pretty mild.

[Logical]

170. LOL, it is sad when I cannot tell if you are serious. Sick! nt

[Shoulders of Giants]

182. Its just my viewpoint

Obviously other people have different viewpoints.

[B Calm]

189. Thank god, there is too many political correctness police on DU!

[hughee99]

125. I'm surprised at how much the terms sexist and misogynist are being used

given that the offensive post doesn't reference gender at all, and the "joke" is the same regardless of gender. I guess some people are just much better at knowing what a poster is "really thinking" than I am.

[cvoogt]

127. I remember that comment too

And thought it well over the line. There's a place for humor and that wasn't it.

[The Second Stone]

135. Who died and made you the censor of inappropriate jokes?

Part of living in a free society is hearing inappropriate things said. You don't run to a court (or a jury) every time someone says something you don't like to get it censored. A person living in a free society says "that is inappropriate" and explains why. It is actually a liberal value. Shutting people up you don't agree with or don't like isn't a liberal value.

The value of free and tasteless speech far exceeds the need to protect those with very tender sensibilities in my opinion.

[JTFrog]

148. There is no free speech on DU.

This isn't a public street corner. If you want to post offensive shit, you take your chances of having it hidden here. Just like right wing screeds aren't allowed here.

[bettyellen]

167. And thank god for that- aren't there some great Libertarian sites where one can spew any old

nonsense? I bet many "free speech" fans actually prefer it here because it's not a total freak show. Perhaps they need to realize that's the trade off.

[grahamhgreen]

139. Have compassion. The world is messed up and people deal with that greif in weird ways.

[LittleBlue]

143. It's a tasteless joke. But hide worthy? Nah

I'm sure plenty of people will tell the poster that such a joke is inappropriate. Hiding it is a waste of time as it's a joke and not serious. Gallows humor, eh? Always risky.

[ohheckyeah]

147. I don't personally think it is healthy

to believe I can sanitize life. Life's full of stuff I don't agree with but I deal. About the only posts I hide are direct attacks on another DU member.

I often laugh at things others find highly inappropriate and I'm not a mean person.

[cinnabonbon]

153. I'm going to post an unpopular opinion

and say that I don't think the problem here is oversensitivity. It's the fact that we're so desensitized to other people's pain that we think of another person's death as a source of entertainment.

[NutmegYankee]

190. Certainly nothing new about that...

[TheFrenchRazor]

173. don't ya know, violence against women is funny? (sarcasm) nt

[penultimate]

176. Do you believe that joke wouldn't have been if it was a man who was killed?

If so, what leads you to that conclusion? I can understand why some may find the gallows humor distasteful and even alert on that, but I'm not sure I see the connection that it's a comment against women. There's been plenty of distasteful jokes made about both men and women deaths here on DU and on the internet.

[Lost_Count]

197. The strangest threads keep going and going and going...

[flvegan]

200. The "DU Jury" is bent.

Don't ask for rationality. It's all emotion. Trolls have that on us.

Bent becomes broken really quickly. And that will be a shame.

[azurnoir]

202. sorry locking under the no whining about DU clause n/t