Gender roles

[HockeyMom]

I have been seeing a load of crap recently about gender roles and how boys should be taught to be boys and girls taught to be girls. What the hell does that even mean?

I worked in a Pre-K class which had "Centers" for Free Time. The kids could choose where they wanted to go. There were Arts and Crafts and Reading types that were gender neutral, but many would be considered in the past as gender oriented: Housekeeping and Care Care, Building, Cars and Trucks, Dress up (Police, Firefighters, Disney Princess).

The boys only went went to the "boy" Centers? The girls only went to the "girl" centers? Absolutely, not. Both genders switched all around. Boys would race cars and build, but they would also put on aprons, cook dinner, feed and diaper the babies. Girls did that too, but they played Demolition Derby, built a fort, or put on police uniforms to catch the "bad guys". There was a 5 year old boy who had 5 brothers and recently a baby sister. He always wanted to go the Housekeeping and Child Care Center. He told me that his Mom said he and all his brothers had to help around the house. He said he wanted to learn how to diaper and feed his baby sister because he LOVED her. Not "manly"? I told him someday he would make a very good DADDY. What the hell is wrong with that? No male is EVER going to have to cook (Chef Ramsey hear that?), clean a floor, or do dishes? No Daddy is ever going to feed or diaper his baby? No woman is ever going to have to drive a car (lol), cannot work in construction, or join the police force, or the military? Yes, some boys DID put on the Disney Princess costumes. So what? The girls also put on "male" dress up costumes too.

I was born in 1948 back in the good old days when "men were men and women were women". Not for me. While my Dad was a Longshoreman, my Mom also worked full time (NOOOOO). Since Dad got home earlier than Mom, HE did most of the cooking and cleaning back in the 50s. Tell him he wasn't a "man" for doing that? Um, I don't think anyone would want to do that. Grandma (born 1900) lived with us. There was not an electrical appliance in the house that she could not take apart and fix. Womanly? lol All Dad would do was shrug, and say, "If she doesn't blow up the house, and saves money hiring repairmen, so what?"

No Gender Roles does not exist, and NEVER HAS.

[seabeyond]

1. exactly hockey it is bullshit. and it is being sung loudly in every corner. all the time media

defining the separation of what is manly defining men thru their contorted definition and men buying the bullshit.

the advancement of evo psychology to establish once in for all, the manly man, in all his refinement in the cave man days in the name of faux science, rolling eyes.

and why.... ? backlash.

women are doing to well, looks like we might get along and somewhere along the way, they baulked.

ask for the definition of masculinity that is suppose to separate the genders.

courage
strength
honesty
integrity

this is gender specific?

today, it is merely defined in sex. on and on and on and on.

and how well they can degrade, demean, humiliate a woman. call out the c word, fine. progressive board? fine. THAT... is being a man.

[Warpy]

4. And the backlash is getting stronger

Look at the way they posed those thong clad women on the cover of SI. There had to be some serious photoshopping going on, that degree of lordosis is life threatening. The cover, with the models thong clad and topless, was porn. Soft porn, yes, but porn.

The better we do at being fully human, the more they try to objectify us into adolescent fantasy comic book women, Photoshopped into contortions the human body does not do while enlarging tits and especially ass and narrowing the waist to the point that internal organs would be bruised by it in real life.

At least there are real world men who get the point. If you know them, treasure them.

[seabeyond]

13. exactly. this reducing a woman merely to a fuck is really the only thing that is left.

take care of this one... free sailin'

[Squinch]

2. + eleventy thousand!

[LittleBlue]

3. That's probably because they are kids

Wait until they grow up when testosterone really starts pumping and you'll see the dimorphism between the sexes.

Pre-k? It's like saying boy babies and girl babies don't act differently. Of course they don't, they're scarcely different when the chemicals that create dimorphism aren't present in sufficient quantities. Even the brain itself begins to change under the influence of these hormones. The same thing happens in the animal kingdom. Go look at lion cubs vs. when they become adults.

[lumberjack_jeff]

5. In practice, "eliminating gender roles" means "no pretend guns, no running and no competition".

"Kids, you can play quietly with the kitchen set, play quietly coloring and painting, or play quietly with the dolls. We've provided both blue and pink clothing for the dolls."

Boys are in crisis. I don't have all the answers, but I think it's fair to say that the ones we're currently trying aren't working.

[seabeyond]

6. cause really, no girl plays with guns, runs or competes. makes me a boy. nt

[NuclearDem]

11. Skyrocketing male suicide rates have everything to do with gender roles.

It's "weak" or unmanly to ask for help, and more acceptable to bottle it up and explode violently.

[lumberjack_jeff]

12. If so, then it's reasonable to ask what we were doing right in 1955.

When the suicide rate was about 1/3 of what it is today.

[NuclearDem]

19. Or figure out what drove them to suicide in the first place

And be better able to recognize the warning signs and encourage them to seek help rather than bottle up their emotions.

Those numbers seem to be high during Vietnam and the rise of the modern LGBT movement.

[seabeyond]

14. actually, from what i understand is our girls attempt suicide more, the boys are more effective. and

this is not taking away from the issue with our boys. i am a huge believer in dealing with this issue.

[Jamaal510]

7. Or at least

"No Gender Roles does not exist, and NEVER HAS."

they shouldn't exist. When it comes to dating, however, one could argue that there are gender roles for sure: women are generally expected by society to not be too eager and to let the men chase them, and men are expected to always be the one who make the first move and the ones who show chivalry in a relationship (instead of it being a 2-way street). I'm not saying that this is right, but this appears to have been the order of things for a long time.

[seabeyond]

8. my son at 19 is finding that has very much changed. i hope so. agreed. these are learned,

taught, conditioned and they need to go.

[1000words]

9. I agree

The OP simply supports the already known concept that gender roles are learned. To assert they don't exist is puzzling.

[seabeyond]

15. many people, especially a strong push from men, believe it is innate and they are not conditioned

roles

[riderinthestorm]

10. My husband's a pro athlete in a sport that's completely gender neutral

Both males and females compete in total gender equality (horse sports). Even the horses themselves are gender neutral with as many successful female horses as male.

My daughters have grown up in a world where everyone does everything - on a farm there's no luxury of a "male" task versus a "female" task. If a fence board's down, whoever sees it has to get out the tools to fix it. If I'm overtime handling horses for the vet, my husband makes dinner.

Your OP reinforces some of my own experience. True working class homes really never had the luxury of gender roles.

[seabeyond]

16. i was raised as a person, not a gender. my challenge in adult life,

like i am suppose to believe this shit. excellent points in your post

and rider.... . i hope all is well with you and things have smoothed out for you all. well, except winter dealing with outdoor animals, lol

[riderinthestorm]

20. Oh sea... still holding my breath about my wild child but maybe there's light?

She changed schools. Moved to CA (we're from IL) to a progressive, innovative smaller high school. She lives with my older daughter and her long-time partner.

She's finishing TWO year's of high school in one year. Applied to four Ivy League universities and has been accepted to all four. Just waiting on the aid package offers. She never stopped getting good grades throughout all of the addiction issues.

Not sure if she's entirely drug free. My older girl reports strong perfume odors, unexplained absences, reclusive behavior.... I harbor no illusions about teens who have addiction issues so young. Most of them fail.

But for now, she has friends! She's thriving and has a plan.

One day at a time.

Thank you so much for asking. Means the world to me. Hope all is well in TX...

[seabeyond]

21. wowsers....

i am really glad i got an update. a lot of stuff has happened in your space. you are there for her, so many of you, and you are right, it is a tough battle for her. but wow, the grades and opportunities she has

and a downer. my brother has that type of iq. like 189. and had to medicate himself with booze for a lifetime. could never get away from it and that wonderful iq amounted to little

so.... i hear what you say. but, i know the challenge. and regardless, he is loved. that is the best we can do.

here? things are good. lol. always. thank you. and thanks for letting me know how she and you are doing.

[riderinthestorm]

22. I know you and your brother's story which is why I was so open

She could go either way.



For flamed out genius' who didn't figure it out.

Like I said, still holding my breath. I'm sure that being at college completely cut off from living with a 24/7 support system will be the test.

[seabeyond]

24. as always....

fingers crossed and pure and positive thoughts sent your way.

[redqueen]

17. BRAVO!

[one_voice]

18. I really don't have anything to add...

but I saw this picture today, and I love, love, love it.

Kids teach us as much as we teach them...imo.

[arthritisR_US]

23. A family after my heart :) nt

[LostOne4Ever]

25. Im of the opinion

That gender roles are an outdated concept that hurts boys and girls alike, and hope for the day they vanish. One needs look at other cultures to see that they can vary depending on ones culture.

We need to learn to accept others as they are, as a person.