Weapons convoy headed to Kiev?

[another_liberal]

A convoy of protesters in cars is currently traveling from Lvov to Kiev to join protesters on Independence Square. Lvov is where a group of protesters seized a Ukrainian army arms depot earlier today. The convoy is reported to already have, "Passed Zhytomyr, which is just under a two-hour drive from the Ukrainian capital."

If you think this situation is bad now, be advised: It may get a whole lot worse real soon.

http://rt.com/news/kiev-clashes-rioters-police-571/

[doc03]

1. Doesn't Ukrain still have USSR nukes? n/t

[another_liberal]

2. I think they gave those up years ago . . .

I am not, however, certain of that.

Nevertheless, a few hundred Kalashnikovs in the wrong hands would be quite bad enough.

[arely staircase]

8. pretty sure they turned them over to Russia

who's government is fucked up but I am glad took over the nukes.

[doc03]

3. Why the fuck do I see 911 Rudy and that asswipe McCain on TV

every time I turn it on today? What the fuck has Rudy ever done that qualifies him to comment on foreign policy?

[another_liberal]

6. McCain wants another war, and a big one if possible.

Giuliani is just an attention whore, one who still harbors dreams of national office.

[liberal N proud]

26. Warmonger McCain

He must be deep in the pockets of the military industrial complex.

[another_liberal]

28. If McCain isn't MIC's boy . . .

We're agreed on that point. If McCain isn't the MIC's boy, then nobody is.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Oh boy, I just started a crash course on

the mess there. I mean, who's who in the zoo.

Another DU'er recommend this for the beginning of the crash course.

http://www.businessinsider.com/understanding-euromaidan-2014-1

[another_liberal]

5. Several good insights in that one.

Last edited Tue Feb 18, 2014, 11:03 PM - Edit history (1)

It is a little troubling that the author seems to suggest many Ukrainians are counting on the EU to ride over the hill like the cavalry to the rescue. Both France and Germany have tried their hand at military adventures in that region before. I don't see either wanting to repeat the experience.

[valerief]

7. Thanks for the link! nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Here is another one

I should pay more attention to things like this. I know

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25182823

Though they were able to get the wind out, and then they had a reporter beaten... stooopid move.

[Igel]

12. Ah. It explained something that puzzled me.

In the most recent decree of something like emergency powers it specifically gave the authorities to change traffic flow in Kyiv and to close down roads.

Automaidan. Got it.

[arely staircase]

9. RT where the protesters are the bad guys. nt

[another_liberal]

13. Some of the protesters are quite bad, that much is certain.

Those who, without being attacked, have chosen to beat policemen with lead pipes and throw bottles of flaming gasoline on them are definitely not "good guys." Neither are those who are setting fire to buildings, and then torching the firetrucks which arrive to fight the flames.

[arely staircase]

14. yeah the Russian puppets have tried to turn the handful of fascists

in to a broad brush false flag op.

[another_liberal]

15. You think the fires in Kiev . . .

Do you think the fires in Kiev are a "false flag op" too. They look pretty damn real to me.

[arely staircase]

16. I think the people of Ukrain deserve better than Putin puppets nr

[another_liberal]

18. We agree on that much.

I doubt, though, such a goal will be achieved by burning down half of Kiev and starting a full-blown Civil War.

[arely staircase]

19. The Putin puppets are attacking and killing Ukrainians

At this point they can't give an inch because they can't affors to be held accountable. They have crossed the do or die line.

[another_liberal]

24. Sounds like you think compromise is out of the question?

If that is actually true, there will be a great deal more blood shed than what we have so far seen. Happily, I am certain things are not as you choose to characterize them.

[arely staircase]

29. unfortunately I think that is the case

Revolution and maybe a civil war from the looks of it.

[another_liberal]

30. I will admit . . .

My optimism concerning a peaceful way out is fading fast. Have you seen this:

http://rt.com/news/weapons-protesters-kiev-police-745/

The last thing that pitiful country needs is heavily armed radicals coupled with a security forces' crackdown.

[arely staircase]

31. I don't click into Russian propoganda. nt

[another_liberal]

35. Just the anti-Russian variety?

Enjoy.

[arely staircase]

36. yes. you have me. I get all of my news from "anti Russian propaganda" whateverthefuck that might be

right down to the coverage I read of the Texas governor's race.

[seveneyes]

33. That looks like an air rifle

At the link, the two pictures with a rifle is the same rifle and it appears to be a single shot/pump air rifle.
At the very most, it's an oddball .22LR.

[another_liberal]

34. You may be right . . .

Still, holding it in plain view has to be a very dangerous thing to do right now.

[arely staircase]

37. what is the Ukrainian government doing that is dangerous and ill advised?

Anything?

[another_liberal]

39. The Ukrainian government under Yanukovich is full of corrupt pricks, . . .

But maybe we should discuss it later. Right now I'm far too angry about this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017176699

I might just lose it on you, due to no fault of your own. So, later.

[arely staircase]

40. glad we agree on that at least

some fucked up shit

[2naSalit]

11. This isn't going to end well

and it appears to be either a continuation of what has been happening since the alleged "Arab Spring" and/or it is a view of what's to come... even here with the decade.

After reading the link Nadin posted, I can't see where that scene is going to come to any kind of acceptable resolve, may become the Syria of Europe. I'm hoping for something better for these people but I don't see it.

[another_liberal]

17. Almost half of the Ukraine is ethnically Russia.

The protest movement is strong in parts of the West, but they are internally divided and have yet to face serious resistance from the authorities in power. The best hope for all involved is that moderates in the movement regain control of the protests, and a really violent confrontation is avoided.

[2naSalit]

20. Hmmm

According to some of the news I've been reading and from talking to my Ukrainian friends, there is growing support for the protests in the eastern sector and it's not almost half of the population that's Russian...

Ethnic Groups:

Ukrainian 77.8%, Russian 17.3%, Belarusian 0.6%, Moldovan 0.5%, Crimean Tatar 0.5%, Bulgarian 0.4%, Hungarian 0.3%, Romanian 0.3%, Polish 0.3%, Jewish 0.2%, other 1.8% (2001 census)

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/up.html

Just sayin'.

[another_liberal]

21. I have seen quite different figures on ethnitcity.

I notice your source is the CIA, that alone makes me more than a little doubtful.

[2naSalit]

22. I used that as something that

I could paste in an online format. It's pretty close to accurate, according to my Ukrainian friends. But you are more than welcome to doubt whatever you choose to doubt.

[another_liberal]

23. It appears the truth may be . . .

In fact, the truth may be somewhere between our initial figures:

[arely staircase]

38. actually it looks like the CIA was closer than you nt

[hobbit709]

25. The history of the Ukraine shows long dissatisfaction with the old USSR and Russia today.

[another_liberal]

27. No doubt about that!

However, the ethnic mix that is today's Ukraine includes nearly a third Russians, and less than sixty percent ethnic Ukrainians

(see my post just above on this string)

That does complicate things considerably.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

32. Actually long before the Soviet Union

Back to the days of the Russian Empire, there's been a long history of subjugation of Ukraine by Russia.