Breaking Ukrainian President sacks the army chief of staff

[nadinbrzezinski]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26265808

adding the live feed from BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26260813

[pampango]

1. "The armed forces could be deployed for the first time" and the army chief gets sacked.

Perhaps Col Gen Volodymyr Zamana was not an enthusiastic supporter of the idea of using the army against protesters - I mean, terrorists.

Earlier the state security service announced it was launching a nationwide "anti-terrorist" campaign, to deal with a growing "extremist threat".

There was a suggestion the armed forces could be deployed for the first time.

President Yanukovych must hope there are not too many others in the army who have doubts about using the army in this manner.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. If the guys who control most of the high power guns

Side with the terrorists...

I will add, I think there's something to that.

[Are_grits_groceries]

3. Ok.

Who are you labeling terrorists? (Not mad. Just asking. )

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Think about this from the POV of Yanukovich

I suspect he just sacked the chief of staff who said, not just no, but fracking no sir.

Yanukovich called his people terrorists, the ones in Independence square refusing to disperse, ergo, if the army sides with them, they become terrorists.

That is what I suspect is going on here, the fear the army will side with the "wrong side" from the POV of the President.

For the record, I think we are watching revolution in process.

[Adrahil]

4. That was my thought.

Maybe he refused to deploy the troops.

[bemildred]

5. It looks like we are going to find out.

(Which side the army will choose.)

If I'm not mistaken, Yanukovich is going to need that Army soon.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Yup

[bemildred]

8. Ukraine on brink of civil war as Kiev burns

President Viktor Yanukovych has defiantly refused a chorus of calls from global leaders and opposition parties to halt a ferocious assault on anti-Government protesters on the bloodiest day since demonstrations broke out in November.

At least 25 people are dead and large parts of Kiev's occupied Independence Square are burning after a bloody escalation of Ukraine's three-month political crisis.

Yanukovych blamed opposition leaders for the latest violence in Kiev, urging them to "distance themselves from radical forces".

In an address to the nation he said anti-government protesters had "crossed the limits" by taking to the streets to try to oust him from power.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11205888

There it is. I guess Pooty-Poot is not going to make it all the way through the Olympics without a big political scandal after all.

[bemildred]

9. Woman shot as crowds storm Ukrainian regional security service office (GRAPHIC VIDEO)

A woman has been taken to hospital with multiple wounds to the head, after being shot by an unseen gunman during an attempted storming of a security building in the central Ukrainian city of Khmelnitskiy. Three other protesters have also been wounded.

On Wednesday afternoon, several thousand opposition demonstrators occupied the center of the city in western Ukraine, which has been marked by a series of violent clashes throughout the political crisis, and surrounded the security building. The crowd then began to throw stones and break windows.

According to eyewitness footage posted on the video-sharing website, YouTube, several climbed inside the building, before shots rang out from near the entrance, shattering the glass. As the weapon was fired from behind a tinted window pane, it is impossible to say who was holding it.

The video shows the crowd momentarily pulling back, revealing a motionless woman on the ground near the entrance, with blood streaming from her head. Several protesters then show their bullet wounds to the unnamed cameraman. The crowd then regroups and pushes two empty trolleybuses in front of the entrance, with a man climbing on top of one of them and waving a Ukrainian flag.

http://rt.com/news/western-ukraine-woman-shot-766/

[LuvNewcastle]

10. I wonder what he'll have to give them.

I think they would be stupid not to make him give them something for their support at this stage.

[bemildred]

11. That only works if the military is still united and still obeying orders.

I am no expert on Ukraine, but I would wager that the military is likely divided along the same cultural lines as the country as a whole. I mean I don't doubt it will be tried, bribery, it's already been tried, but the outcome is not necessarily a nation newly re-united. It might just fragment the military (further).

The protesters appear to have given a good account of themselves in battles with the pro-government forces, and seem prepared to fight some more. They do not seem pre-disposed to back off. The violence is spreading.

I would wager the price would be high, if one could "restore order".

[lsewpershad]

12. Wonder

what will happen here in America if protestors were to occupy govt buildings, throw Molotov cocktails at security forces etc????? Just wondering.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. There we are seeing a possible split

Last edited Wed Feb 19, 2014, 04:54 PM - Edit history (1)

Between the army and the police, these are echoes of both the 1905 uprising and the Russian Revolution. (Ukraine was part of the Empire and it's bread basket)

In 1905 the Navy sided with the rebels. Why the Navy was never trusted by the Soviets. In 1917 the army broke for the people while the police was still breaking skulls. Army units formed the first Soviets, (people's councils). As the civil war broke the army did as well. It was between the white forces under Alexandr Kerensky and the Red Forces.

Piece of trivia US Forces landed in Sebastopol in support of White Forces. So yes, we technically invaded mother Russia. Oh and Kerensky died penniless in NYC in the 1920s

[Jenoch]

16. My grandfather deserted the Tsar's Army

instead of killing his fellow country men. He walked across Europe and got on a ship going to America.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. My dad hid from the nazis, then fought the nazis

then left Poland and crossed Europe on foot and ended up in Mexico.

I suspect this mess will end up for a new batch crossing Europe and getting refugee status SOMEWHERE. I hope it remains contained to one country, but this has way too many echoes. I started doing the crash course and read into the current situation. and it is not going to end well.

IMHO we are watching revolution, and the winners on this will NOT please any of the neighbors. Europe is at times a lot about those pesky neighbors.

[pampango]

14. “Zamanu has recently hesitated to express readiness to get involved in helping to defuse

the political crisis.”

The UNIAN news agency said the armed forces chief, Vladimir Zamanu, had been replaced by Yuri Ilyin.

One analyst said the move may have been prompted by Zamanu's reluctance to use the army against civilian demonstrators.

“The sudden switch can be explained by Yanukovich's desire to use the army in combating the growing protests,” Vadim Karasyov, head of the Institute of Global Strategies, a Kiev-based think tank, said in an interview. “Zamanu has recently hesitated to express readiness to get involved in helping to defuse the political crisis.”

http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-ukraine-antiterrorist-protests-20140219,0,3709188.story#axzz2tnfHWm00

Some confirmation that the sacked army chief had "hesitated" about getting the army involved.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Ok, this is sad, I am better at reading tea leaves

in places I barely know, it was, I admit, a gut feeling based on a Russian History course taken in graduate school.

My back yard, I missed it by a mile, and I watch local politics professionally. (I should not feel so bad about it, I was the only one to say it was the guy who won to lose, but bought into the poll hype)

[pampango]

18. "Opposition leaders have just been meeting with Yanukovych who has promised there will be no assault

on the protesters."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/blog/2014/feb/19/ukraine-25-dead-after-police-storm-kiev-protest-camp-live-updates

That promise may just apply to tonight but it is good news.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. I have been having CNN on the background, for reference

which has been behind the Guardian, on average, in their reporting by a few hours.