Call me a gun grabber, I don't give a shit

[Taverner]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by ellisonz (a host of the General Discussion forum).

Call me whatever NRA-fueled epithet you want to call me.

You are a coward, and you have no morals, ethics or empathy.

Get out of my face, coward.

The "Stand your ground" law is an open invatation for murder. The murder rate doubled since this law was enacted.

"Oh oh oh but I'm afwaid the meen ol' minowity might take away my steweo!"

Good. Now you know what it's like to BE a minority. The cops might take away your right to FREEDOM at any moment, just for "fitting the description."

Get rid of this vigilante law.

And stop jerking off to your damn guns already. They're pieces of METAL - they are a TOOL. Nothing more, nothing less.

[TheWraith]

1. Your facts are completely wrong here.

First off, the murder rate has not doubled. In fact, the murder rate has not changed at all.

"Stand your ground" is also in no way an excuse to commit murder any more than medical marijuana laws are an invitation to drug smuggling. It's completely a false interpretation.

[Hugabear]

14. "Justifiable deaths" have TRIPLED since this law passed in Florida

This has been reported by the Miami Herald and other outlets lately. I don't have the link handy, but it's out there for anyone to look up.

[TheWraith]

30. No. Please try to get basic facts right.

There's a report that attempts to CLAIM self defense have tripled... from 30 a year to around 90 a year. A big chunk of those were still convicted of murder, showing rather clearly that it's far from a "get out of jail free" card. As far as the actual murder rate, it continues to trend down as it has continuously for the last 20 years.

[Hugabear]

39. Where are you getting that from

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/03/20/deaths-nearly-triple-since-stand-your-ground-enacted/

According to state crime stats, Florida averaged 12 “justifiable homicide” deaths a year from 2000-2004. After “Stand your Ground” was passed in 2005, the number of “justifiable” deaths has almost tripled to an average of 35 a year, an increase of 283% from 2005-2010.

Now where are you getting your info that most of these were actually convicted of murder?

[MineralMan]

2. Hmm...GD?

Gungeon? Choices...

[pinboy3niner]

5. IBTL, lol!

[Tuesday Afternoon]

25. what about FR...

[MineralMan]

32. I don't know. I don't go there.

I have no idea what kind of posts get you banned there any more. This OP probably would, I think.

[Control-Z]

3. Well, if this won't

need a big ol' bag of popcorn. Lol.

I'm with you all the way on this, though. You are brave to post.

[eqfan592]

45. Brave, maybe. Completely, and demonstrably wrong? Absolutely. (nt)

[Upton]

4. I'm sure you have a link to back up your claim of the murder rate doubling....

right?

and btw, you and the rest of the self confessed gun grabbers are in the distinct minority..

[Taverner]

6. Let it be known I have no problem with the personal posession of handguns

And note I said gunS not gun.

Hell, I think machine guns should be legal.

But murder, no. That should not be legal. If you are so afraid that someone is going to steal your stereo hire a security guard.

[dionysus]

9. that doesnt seem to jive with your OP though...

[Taverner]

11. I have a problem with "stand your ground" not guns

If you want to shoot a handgun at a piece of paper, go out and shoot

You shoot at people, you better have a DAMN GOOD REASON

And simply "looking suspicious" AIN'T ONE OF THEM!!!!

[dionysus]

17. i think 99.99999% of DUers agree, which is why i don't understand the OP.

[Taverner]

21. I say "gun grabber" because that's what the gun fundies will call you...

If you disagree with any law advocated by the



(angels sing)



N R A

[eqfan592]

46. Not, not exactly.

You'll get called ignorant for saying ignorant things (which you are currently doing on this very thread as you are demonstrably ignorant of SYG laws).

[ProgressiveProfessor]

42. That is not what SYG says or does

The requirements for self defense with deadly force require reasonable fear of great bodily injury or death, which Zimmerman's actions do not qualify as IMO.

Focusing on SYG here is about the same as whining about parking laws after a street racing death.

[Upton]

12. Murder isn't legal..really?

Of course, there's been no one even charged with murder in this case as of yet. Why not just step back, put a hold on the rush to judgement, and let the justice system run it's course?

And I'm not hiring any security guard...I defend my own home and property..

[Upton]

24. Don't invade my home..

there won't be a problem. Unlike what appeared to have happened with this Zimmerman dude, I don't looking for trouble.

However, I reserve the right to defend my home and loved ones by whatever means possible...I'm not going to be left defenseless because some do gooder authoritarian types think they know what's best for me..

[Taverner]

27. So your stereo is your "loved one" - got it

[Upton]

33. I don't even own a stereo..

I do though have a woman I love very much..Someone threatens her, I'm not going to be reciting Brady Bunch talking points..

Oh, one more thing of interest..more and more Democrats own guns too..

[Taverner]

35. You know what I mean...if you saw somebody leaving your house with your most expensive posession...

Non human, of course, would you shoot them?

[Joseph8th]

38. Urrr... urr... don't get near my woman...

Wow. Just. Wow. Are you such a coward? Or truly that ignorant? You're both far more likely to be killed with your own gun. The fact is, you're chances are just as good -- if not better -- of getting the weapon away from the attacker than gettin' yer gun, when confronted. Learn martial arts and don't be such a wussy coward.

[eqfan592]

47. Wow, just wow indeed.

Exactly where do you get that youa re "far more likely to be killed with your own gun?" The same BS study that's been laughed out of every serious academic circle that the Brady Campaign continues to cite? Oh, and calling somebody a coward for being willing to defend a loved one? Yeah, that speaks pretty damn clearly to your character (and here's a hint, it's not flattering in the least).

[TheWraith]

18. Murder ISN'T legal. That's why they call it murder.

Please, people, stop blindly accepting media reports designed to sensationalize what self-defense laws mean. For example: it is not legal to use potentially lethal force to protect property, like a stereo. Period. Only to defend yourself or another person from imminent death or severe bodily harm. Period. There's nothing, ANYWHERE, about "feeling threatened" or any other such definition. It's really quite limited.

[tledford]

8. Pretty much parallels the general decline in intelligence since 1959. eom

[TheWraith]

20. Um... intelligence hasn't declined since 1959.

In fact, average quality of education has INCREASED.

[Taverner]

23. And der arr morr twees when now den wen da contitooton wuz ritten!

Derp

[tledford]

26. Education and intelligence have nothing to do with one another.

Education informs, it does not enhance intelligence.

I was born in 1956 and I can tell you that in my personal observation, Americans in general are just flat-out more stupid now than they were in 1965. Perhaps it is the lack of a Fourth Estate now versus then, maybe it's the shit in our food, water and air, or maybe it's bad genes, but it's there regardless.

YMMV, but I don't really care about your mileage.

Oh, and as for polls, 55% of Mississippi Republicans say Obama is Muslim -- does that make him Muslim?

[TheWraith]

31. What you're describing is a common fallacy of perception.

It's well documented, and it's completely false in scientific terms. Case in point: you probably believe there's more violent crime now than 40 years ago, right? You'd be wrong--in fact, violent crime in the US is lower than it's been since before you hit puberty. It has to do with the way that the human brain perceives certain things; rather than taking an objective measurement and comparing, it "totes up" incidents like violent crimes and adds them up, so it always seems perceptually like crime is increasing. It's the same case with intelligence; the past gets a "rose colored glasses" treatment compared to the present.

[tledford]

41. No, I already knew violent crime was down.

Perception cannot be fallacious, to think that is possible is a common fallacy.

In fact, if gun ownership is up, that, in and of itself, proves my point.

And Wraiths have no substance, anyway, in every sense of the term.

[X_Digger]

13. I think he missed a few letters in there, in his rush to post..

Justifiable homicide using this defense did go up, or at least those trying to use the defense.

[frylock]

22. incidents of "justifiable homicide" have actually tripled since SYG came into effect..

According to state crime stats, Florida averaged 12 “justifiable homicide” deaths a year from 2000-2004. After “Stand your Ground” was passed in 2005, the number of “justifiable” deaths has almost tripled to an average of 35 a year, an increase of 283% from 2005-2010.

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/03/20/deaths-nearly-triple-since-stand-your-ground-enacted/

Five years after Florida's Stand Your Ground law was enacted, a 2010 review by the St. Petersburg Times found that reports of justifiable homicides had tripled, and a majority of cases were excused by prosecutors or the courts.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/19/10766858-justice-department-fbi-to-probe-shooting-death-of-florida-teen-trayvon-martin

In light of the shift in the law, it's not surprising that since the law went into effect, reports of justifiable homicides have tripled, according to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/20/opinion/toobin-trayvon-martin/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

[dionysus]

7. dunno what you're going for here, really.

[rustydog]

10. Dude, you got balls. I agree with you

I have never been so afeared that I needed to carry. ANYWHERE.
I do own guns, i like to shoot firearms...I just leave them locked up at home.

[Taverner]

19. Guns are fun to shoot

One of my favorite moments is taking cans of pepsi, shaking them up, throwing them into the air and taking them out with a shotgun

But people, no those aren't fun to shoot. This is America, not the wild west or Somalia

[jannyk]

16. K&R!

[The Doctor.]

28. ....

Seriously.

[Taverner]

29. Huh?

f000999

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#$@( 1 )



chicken

*(Dk


5481111

[The Doctor.]

43. Relax. Whatever message you're trying to get across is lost

in the hysteria.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

34. gun grabber

do i win a prize?

[Joseph8th]

36. I'm with you...

... the 2nd Amendment is the LEAST important of our Constitutional Rights. Especially after the invention of the assembly line, it's ridiculous to mass-produce this type of weaponry. The argument for self-defense is shot full of holes (thanks Brady Campaign) -- most deaths by gun in self-defense situations are the victim dying with a bullet from their own gun (taken away by the more aggressive attacker). The argument for a well-regulated militia is shot away by two facts: (a) show me a "well-regulated" militia, and (b) where's my right to keep and bear an F-16?

Basically, we need to regulate the fuck out of bullets, if they won't let us regulate guns. Chris Rock had it right: slap a 1000% tax on every bullet sold. Oughta do the trick.

[Taverner]

37. My problem isn't with guns, it's with using them

Use them on a piece of paper, fine. Knock yourself out.

Use them on a person, go to jail. Do not pass go.

Threaten someone with one, go to jail.

[madinmaryland]

40. Kicked and fucking recommended.

It's sickening how we all have to seem to kowtow to a very small minority here and be forced to agree with their narrow views.

[Johnny Rico]

44. As far as I can tell, you haven't actually advocated grabbing any guns.

At least not in this thread. As far as "jerking off to my damn guns" is concerned, I'll freely admit that I like guns...a lot...to the point that I own around a hundred of them. I understand that you aren't particularly fond of them, but that's fine with me. I'm a live and let live kind of guy, myself.

Unless someone is physically threatening me and mine, in which case I'm a 12 gauge 000 buckshot kind of guy.

[ellisonz]

48. Locking

There is no direct discussion of the Trayvon Martin case which is "really big news."

Guns and RKBA Group