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Loaded Liberal Dem

(230 posts)
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 10:01 PM Feb 2014

Why analysts touting Ukraine's East-West division are just plain wrong.

BY Alexander J. Motyl
FEBRUARY 22, 2014

Throughout the crisis in Ukraine, experts real and imagined have persistently invoked the country's vaunted East-West "divide." According to this interpretation, Ukraine is neatly divided into two homogeneous, coherent, and irreconcilable blocs. The implicit message is that partition is inevitable and desirable. As Viktor Yanukovych fled Kiev for the pro-Russian and "separatist" Kharkiv on Feb. 22, analysts feared he would ignite a civil war between Ukraine's irreconcilable factions. But as is often the case with such binary oppositions, they conceal and obfuscate more than they reveal and clarify, creating a simplistic image of a complex condition.

As is obvious to any visitor, Ukraine's westernmost large city, Lviv, differs fundamentally from its easternmost counterparts, Luhansk and Donetsk. Lviv is pro-Western; it supports Ukrainian independence; it has consistently voted against Viktor Yanukovych and his Party of Regions; it speaks Ukrainian and promotes Ukrainian culture, while being multilingual, multicultural, and remarkably diverse; and it rejects the Soviet past. In contrast, Luhansk and Donetsk are more pro-Russian; they have doubts about Ukrainian independence; they support Yanukovych and the Party of Regions (and when they voice their discontent, they often vote for the Stalinist Communist Party); they speak Russian and favor Russian culture; they are monolingual, monocultural, and homogeneous; and they embrace the Soviet past.

But this neat picture becomes muddled in the environs of Luhansk and Donetsk. For example, the official website of the Bilokurakyn district of Luhansk province (which borders Russia) is in Ukrainian, and the website's sentiments are distinctly anti-Yanukovych. The countryside and smaller towns of both provinces tend to speak Ukrainian and practice Ukrainian culture. And even in the cities themselves, the vast majority of the population -- minus the pro-Russian chauvinists -- will happily engage Ukrainian speakers in conversation. One Ukrainian history professor at Donetsk State University has been conducting all his lectures in Ukrainian for over a decade. At first some students grumbled -- and he responded by pointing out that if they lack the intellectual ability to understand Ukrainian, they shouldn't be university students. Since then, there have been no complaints and no problems.

The vast majority of Lviv residents are at least proficient in Russian, gladly speak the language, read Russian newspapers and books, and watch Russian television. If a radio is playing in a restaurant or café, chances are as high that it'll be tuned to a Russian station rather than a Ukrainian one. Lviv is especially popular with Russian tourists, who like it for its Middle European feel, old architecture, and Ukrainian distinctiveness. A favorite Russian watering hole is the Kryyivka (Bunker) restaurant, modeled after the underground hideouts used by anti-Soviet Ukrainian nationalists after World War II

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/02/22/a_house_united

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As Gawwwd is my witness, I thought it was spelled "Lvov."

5 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Why analysts touting Ukraine's East-West division are just plain wrong. (Original Post) Loaded Liberal Dem Feb 2014 OP
It was once spelled "Lvov." That's the Russian spelling Lydia Leftcoast Feb 2014 #1
I honestly didn't know that Loaded Liberal Dem Feb 2014 #2
Before that, it was spelled Lemberg FarCenter Feb 2014 #4
And before that, it was Lwów, in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth muriel_volestrangler Feb 2014 #5
No "analyst" worth the name has a nice purely binary split. Igel Feb 2014 #3

Lydia Leftcoast

(48,223 posts)
1. It was once spelled "Lvov." That's the Russian spelling
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 10:08 PM
Feb 2014

It's similar with "Kiev" (Russian spelling) and "Kyiv" (Ukrainian spelling).

Under the Russian Tsarist Empire, Ukrainian was just considered a dialect of Russian. The Communists recognized Ukrainian as a separate language and allowed certain expressions of Ukrainian culture, but as in other minority areas, there were limits. No religious or separatist expressions were allowed.

 

FarCenter

(19,429 posts)
4. Before that, it was spelled Lemberg
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 11:22 AM
Feb 2014

Lemberg was the capital of the Austro-Hungarian province of Galicia.

The 8 western oblasts of Ukraine were once parts of Galicia, Ruthenia, and Bukovina. These provinces were multi-ethnic, with Ukrainians dominating the rural and small village populations. Ukrainians were a minority in the cities, but their former Jewish, Polish, and German populations were either liquidated or expelled when Stalin moved the Ukrainian border westward.

muriel_volestrangler

(105,860 posts)
5. And before that, it was Lwów, in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 04:28 PM
Feb 2014
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Lviv

for the largest part of its history, before Poland was carved up by Austria, Prussia and Russia.

Igel

(37,437 posts)
3. No "analyst" worth the name has a nice purely binary split.
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 10:07 AM
Feb 2014

Nor would follow RT's lead and say it's "democracy loving Russians" versus "fascists".

That's for the news readers who insist on making it simpler than possible for the public who both insists on things being perfectly black and white and yet loves to come from the side and say, "We're complex, we're nuanced, how dare you present the issue as being just black and white." The OP plays the same game. He oversimplifies what others say; then he oversimplifies to make his own point.

There's a nice belt of majority-Ukrainian population in the supposedly "monolithically Russian" East. He acts as though the distribution of language has nothing to do with ethnicity per se, or somehow this band of population has been entirely overlooked.

In a first-pass generalization you would probably overlook that population. But you can't ignore it because in the event of a split, in the event of some major disruption, you have to take them into account. Unless you have 5 minutes of air time to fill today and 15 minutes this week to pay attention to the events, synthesize the information, write up your report, edit it before final approval, and then record it--and edit the recording.

They need to get the ill-will out of reporting.

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