A certain white privilege is voluntarily given by non-white people.

[PlanetaryOrbit]

Let me begin by saying that I'm Asian.

I've noticed that non-white people are rarely looked up to when they go to white countries, but white people are very often looked up to when they go to non-white countries. One could attribute the former to racism, but what about the latter?

I've noticed that even many non-white people will go to lengths to get lighter skin - creams, avoiding the Sun, etc.

When a white American travels abroad, some non-white people will hurriedly associate themselves with "the white foreigner".......but you don't see white people rushing to associate themselves with the "non-white foreigner" in a white country, do you?

All of this bothers me a lot.

I'm coming to the conclusion that many people around the world, even non-white people, subconsciously find lighter skin more attractive than darker skin.

Of course, there are factors such as wealth, power, history, culture, etc. as to why non-white people might hold white people in higher esteem than vice versa. But I think skin color and physical height (Caucasians tend to grow taller than Asians) are a huge factor nonetheless.

For final clarification, this post isn't about white people treating non-white people poorly. It's about some non-white people - in non-white countrified - holding white people in very high esteem and admiration.

[AverageJoe90]

1. As a practical minded person myself, I wouldn't call it "privilege"....

Since it actually reinforces(even if unknowingly) something that only ever existed as an illusion, and one created to divide-and-conquer at that.

With that said, though, it certainly is unfortunate: we do not need arbitrary cultural standards to define who is "pretty" and who is not. As it's said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder....and beholdee, for that matter.

[kwassa]

4. Do you understand the concept of white privilege?

It is not an illusion, as it contains real power.

[AverageJoe90]

5. I understand the concept, yes. But I disagree with it.

Honestly, the biggest problem I have with it is, for a purported teaching tool, it has not, sadly, been all that effective in reaching the general public. I mean, sure, you may have a very small number of success stories from college (or at least college-age) radicals(I used to be one, btw), who claim to have "gotten it", but otherwise, it has largely failed; people just don't understand how they could possibly be "privileged" when they're losing their house to foreclosure, or have been arrested on some bullshit trumped-up charge, etc......and who can possibly blame them, really?

[kwassa]

7. That is a curious criticism. It is increasingly reaching the public.

I am a public school teacher, we go through continuous diversity training, because at this point in history, in extremely racially and ethnically diverse student bodies, the teachers are still predominately white.

The focus this year in our diversity studies is white privilege. I've known about it and understood the theory for years.

The idea that white privilege doesn't exist is simply absurd. If you believe that, you don't understand it.

[AverageJoe90]

8. I've actually been around. I've seen the outcome.

And unfortunately, the large majority of the American public who has heard of "white privilege" have not gotten the impression that some would hope for.

As I said, there may have been a small number of success stories(and they are *loudly* trumpeted, I might add!). But outside this tight little circle, reality has, sadly, shown that "white privilege" has largely failed as a teaching tool for the public as a whole. In order to gain the audience we need, some things have to change. And yes, this will have to involve jettisoning "white privilege" terminology at some point.

[kwassa]

10. What makes you think you know what the large majority of the American public thinks?

Do you have scientifically-based polls to back yourself up on this subject?

Or is this simply your personal opinion?

[AverageJoe90]

11. Observations. Lots of them.

No polls, but they aren't needed. I've seen enough reactions from people not versed in social justice terminology to know that it's not working all that well. Even some folks who do consider themselves SJ are taking issue with it.

I was, myself, open to this kind of thing a long time ago, to be honest with you. But I didn't know then what I do now.

[kwassa]

12. I see. You only have your person observations.

That's nice, as far as at it goes.

But let's get down to the real nitty-gritty.

You don't believe that white privilege exists. Why is that?

[seattledo]

9. Agreed, it is real power

Of course, these days thinprivilige seems to much more pervasive and hateful.

[Ms. Toad]

2. It's called internalized racism.

http://www.div17.org/TAAR/internalizedracism.htm

[kwassa]

3. It is still about racism, only it is internalized racism.

If you tell black people in the US, for instance, for hundreds of years that they are lesser human beings, don't be surprised if they begin to believe it, themselves. This is also true of other non-white racial groups. They can easily see themselves as less-than the dominant white society.

The ideal of white superiority is a message conveyed as a subtext in world media.

Lighter skin color isn't intrinsically admired, it is seen as a ticket to opportunity. It used to be that for very light-skinned African-Americans that could pass for white. In Asia, as I understand it, the lighter skin represented a higher class of people that didn't have to work out in the sun and get darker.

Also, some Asian-American kids grow quite tall ...

[pinboy3niner]

6. Well-said

On visits to Vietnam I did a double take when I saw bridal shops filled with white mannequins in their windows.

And on the streets many women riding motor scooters wear wide-brimmed hats and long gloves--to "hide from the sun" and avoid darkening their skin, as my Vietnamese friends explained.

But a lot of it isn't just positioning for opportunity. People really have been brainwashed to adopt the aesthetics of the dominant culture.

[LittleBlue]

13. I suppose if China or Japan had become the dominant power

we'd all be learning bushido or Confucianism and wanting Asian characteristics.

Whites launched the Age of Discovery and the Industrial Revolution while no other civilizations really got to that point. Had Henry the Navigator been born as Tokugawa Ieyasu's heir instead of Hidetada, we on the west coast might be speaking Japanese instead of English.

It's just a circumstance of history.

[Gravitycollapse]

14. As said above, it's internalized racism and the desire to become white.

Which is a symptom of an oppressive body constituted largely by white persons.

This is the principle subject examined in Black Skin, White Masks by Frantz Fanon.

[tblue37]

15. Power, wealth, and status--or rather, PERCEIVED power wealth and status--

among people in countries largely ground down and impoverished by colonialism, imperialism, geopolitical games among world powers, etc.

White skin is NOT "more attractive" to them, but people tend to hang around (and often to suck up to) those whom they perceive to have more power and wealth.

Surely you know of the famous experiments in which little black girls in this country identified white dolls as "good" and "pretty" and black dolls as "bad" and"ugly," not because of a natural preference for lighter skin but rather because the bigotry of the dominant culture had made them feel less worthy because of their race.