Woman Living Off The Grid Faces Eviction If She Doesn't Hook Back Up

[HarveyDarkey]

By Jonathan Wolfe, Mon, February 24, 2014

In 2012, Florida resident Robin Speronis made the decision to live off the grid. She uses solar panels, propane heaters, rainwater filters, and a camp shower to get by without using her city’s water or electrical services.

Her lifestyle drew the interest of those in her community – so much so that a local news station decided to run a segment on her. Just one day after the story ran, city authorities showed up at Speronis’ door.

“A code-enforcement officer came, knocked on the door then posts a placard that says ‘uninhabitable property, do not enter’,” she told WFTX in an interview. Speronis owns her home and is paid up to date on all taxes, so the typical reasons for an eviction notice do not apply.

Cape Coral’s city code-compliance manager said the notice was placed at Speronis’ home because she doesn’t have running water or electricity at the house. But, as Speronis and attorney Todd Allen point out, neither of these offenses are listed in the city code.

"When this was brought to my attention I felt like I had to act. I felt like Cape Coral was intruding in the woman's lifestyle," Allen said.

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/woman-living-grid-faces-eviction-if-she-doesnt-hook-back

[B Calm]

1. Another story about Florida. . .

What is it about that state?

[madokie]

5. full of rich old dickheads

Pretty much what I'd expect of them down there

[Jack Rabbit]

29. Florida has a notorious robber baron for a governor

That should tell you a lot about what it is about that state.

"Freedom" my ass.

[sakabatou]

57. I don't know

[1monster]

98. You try that in most states and anywhere there are gated communities and you will get

the same results.

It isn't just Florida.

[Ecumenist]

105. UM, NOPE Not here in California. at least here in the north.

We're planning a house with will be completely off the grid, (well water, solar and wind), IT'S NOT AN ISSUE! So sorry to burst your bubble.

[joeglow3]

2. The city wants the money

My folks bought two acres of land right outside of a city. Their agreement said they would use the city for water within the residence. They built a well that they use solely to water their lawn. The city got pissed and told them they had to cap it. They had to waste money on an attorney to tell the city they had no right. The city went away until last spring.

Last spring, they passed a law outlawing people from building their own wells. They then contacted my parents and one neighbor who had wells and told them they were breaking the law. Now, they are spending more money on an attorney to fight this (and there is clear precedent in our state - a city annexed an area and told everyone they had to cap their wells and the state supreme court said they couldn't).

Pisses me off when cities pull this shit to try and bully citizens. All it does is give ammo to right wing nuts about the government wanting to control us and make us reliant on them.

[bemildred]

6. +1. They will see this sort of thing as a threat to their business model, so to speak. nt

[Bandit]

28. Republican government does indeed want to control us

Actually Republicans do not govern, they dictate.

[7962]

90. Here's another story: I know of a family where 3 members live next door to one another.

They hooked all the houses together with hoses and all three only pay 1 water/sewer bill. They're not stealing; just evading the "minimum usage" bill. All water they use is metered and paid for. They say they save over 100 a month doing this. So far the city hasnt noticed or cared.

[JimDandy]

109. Isn't the minimum charge used to pay for the upkeep of the

infrasfructure that gets safe water to all of them?

[7962]

115. When you ask why the minimum is so high, they tell you its to pay for the system

So I guess one could say they're not paying for the upkeep of the whole system. Although they arent using the meter or lines to their homes. Its just odd how our minimum is 30% higher than the city right next to us.
In my case, I live alone and am on the road a lot for work and my girlfriend lives a couple hrs away. I generate very little trash and never put the can out by the curb. The city has water, garbage and sewer in one bill. Ive asked to have the trash services removed since I never use it but they wont do it. So now I take trash from my girlfriends home, where she doesnt have home service and had to go to the dump, and dump it in my can. I figured if I gotta pay for it, I'm gonna dump SOMEBODIES trash, might as well be hers.

[JimDandy]

117. That does sound unfair about the trash.

I have done something similar before-letting neighbors put their extra garbage in my can (which always was way less than full) so they didn't have to pay for a larger size can.

The weird thing about refusing to remove the trash component is that, if you don't pay the bill, they would stop picking it up anyway! And same with the water-don't pay bill it gets shut off. (A tenant did that at my parent's rental home. Luckily the city notified my parents before the lawn and all the plants, bushes and trees died. They worked with the tenant on the bill for months, but eventually had to require the tenant to move.)

[bullsnarfle]

118. What a racket.

Our electric, water, & sewer are bundled. I live alone, and take 1 lousy shower per day; have no washing machine, dishwasher, lawn sprinklers, do not wash my car there, nada. I am at work all day, asleep most of the time I am home, at night only watch about an hour of t.v. before crashing. I hardly use enough water/electric/sewer to budge the needle...hell, once when I was paying my bill in person, the city worker looking at my usage in the computer asked me, quite seriously, "Does anyone currently live at this address?". When I told her, yes, me, she was flabbergasted.
Still, I have to pay out the ass due to 'minimum charges', basically I am paying for other people who are sucking this stuff up like a vacuum. But if I tried to live off-grid they would tag my house, and probably even find a way to take it away from me.

[joeglow3]

119. Sewer separation is killing a lot of cities

Omaha is looking at a multi-billion dollar bill for the federally mandated upgrade.

[4_TN_TITANS]

113. Yet BigBiz can suck aquifers dry n/t

[WinkyDink]

3. Sold (at a great loss!) a money-pit piece of Cape Coral property in 2009 and never looked back.

[Stonepounder]

4. And, of course this is typical of the so-called 'conservative' values

of less government and 'less regulation'. The hypocrisy of these people is simply staggering.

[hunter]

7. Is this a free nation? No.

We are serfs.

Don't want to work within the rules of your Lords and Masters?

You will be punished with homelessness, hunger, and lack of appropriate medical care if you do not conform.

So long as her house is structurally sound, the lighting and heating systems are safe (no candles to catch the curtains on fire, no carbon-monoxide fumes from the heat, that sort of thing..) and the wastewater, etc., is disposed of appropriately, then these lower energy lifestyles ought to be encouraged.

Most especially in a place like Florida which is going to suffer some of the worst consequences of climate change as the oceans rise.

[WillyT]

10. + 1,000,000,000 What You Said !!!

[NYC_SKP]

87. Don't fall for it, WillyT. Always dig a little deeper. Robin Speronis is not a poor victim.

She seems, rather, to be a bit of a nut and possibly a real estate scammer.

She was looking at fraud charges in 2009, had all kinds of real estate scams going then and since.

Here's one of her channels: http://www.youtube.com/user/AskZenRealEstate

I guess you've never been to Cape Coral, but it has more waterways than any city in the world, 400 miles of them!

She can't have a septic system, it would pollute the water, and it's not clear she can have a well.

If she want's to live off the grid, she should move inland and on a bit more acreage, but disposing of her waste the way others dispose of dog poop ain't cool!

(those were her words)

[7962]

91. Ahhhhh, more to the story!! Thanks for that effort.

So many times here, everyone jumps on whatever bandwagon is put out there without knowing the whole story.

[NYC_SKP]

93. And: "Cape real estate owner sentenced to probation in larceny case"

The owner and broker of a Cape Coral real estate company was sentenced to 10 years of state probation after being found guilty of grand theft.

Robin Marie Speronis, 52, of 1530 S.W. 53rd Terrace, pleaded no contest on June 22 to larceny $20,000 less than $100,000 and was adjudicated guilty. A judge gave Speronis probation and ordered her to pay $32,000 in restitution.

Assistant State Attorney James Miller prosecuted the case.



- See more at: http://www.cape-coral-daily-breeze.com/page/content.detail/id/525311.html#sthash.5JBf7vnY.dpuf

[AZ Progressive]

35. The Masters of the system ultimately WANT the poor and homeless to suffer

Because the suffering of the poor and homeless are used to scare everyone else into obeying their corporate masters. It goes along with the puritanical roots of this country.

[AZ Progressive]

38. You DON'T really own your own HOME

Even if you paid your home off. Just stop paying your property taxes for more than a year and see what happens.

Ultimately the city or county owns your home. Home ownership in most cases is just an illusion.

[CFLDem]

40. Yep

Land of the free, my ass.

[Berlin Expat]

80. I recall my

father telling me that when I was about 16 or so.

The passage of 28 years has proven him correct.

[sammytko]

92. We are exempt from property taxes

So we can almost say we do own our home, unless they change the law that gives 100% disabled vets this exemption.

This is in Texas. Florida also exempts 100% disabled vets.

[kestrel91316]

77. You want to outlaw CANDLES??? Piffle.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

[RKP5637]

79. Yes, this should be embraced, but sadly ignorance and sh** often float to the top! n/t

[hobbit709]

8. 20 years ago a friend of mine had to tie in to the city water and sewer system.

He had a well and septic tank. And forced him to pay the total cost of running a water and sewer line to his house. After they inspected, certified and left, he crawled under the house and disconnected all the water except the kitchen sink from the city line and tied back into his well. He used about 1000 gallons a month of city water and as much from his well as he wanted.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

9. So why not connect to the city utilities and never use them?

I can see where the city has the right (and the responsibility) to enforce building codes. And I can't imagine how the city's building code would not include standards for electrical and sewer hookups.

Of course, these are Florida building codes. So there's that.

[louis-t]

18. They would still charge her a minimum charge every month.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

21. That's different...

If they're trying to stick her for a bill, then she should definitely fight them on it.

[greiner3]

19. For some it is an opiton;

However, if there is neither of the services into the house, then it can cost in the 5 figures to do so.

[bkanderson76]

11. Hmmmph...I'm sorry Ms. Speronis, but just because you are Standing on Your Ground in

Florida doesn't necessarily mean you can actually Stand Your Ground. This right to Stand Your Ground is exclusive only to the senile white men of privilege.
Pay the Gestapo and quiet down.

[bpj62]

12. No State Income Tax

With no income tax and a legislature that continues to cut taxes how else are the local municipalities going to pay for the public services they provide. For years retired people moved to Florida for the weather as well as the low taxes that helped them maintain their fixed incomes. The chicken has come home to roost. As far as I am concerned Ms. Speronis is simply doing what those retirees did and that is being frugal. We are quickly heading towards a society where we will have to pay to use the roads that our taxes already paid for, we will have to pay for the fire department before they will come to our house as well as any police protection. Florida is a huge "fee" state. look at your fees at the DMV or in the court system if you get a ticket. Why are so many state law enforcement agencies fighting decriminalization of marijuana possession. Forfeiture money. California started this with Prop 9 in the 70's and our infrastructure is paying for it big time.

[lumberjack_jeff]

13. What does she do with her sewage? n/t

[totodeinhere]

15. She might have a septic tank.

Actually properly using a septic tank can be an environmentally friendly alternative to using a municipal sewer line.

[lumberjack_jeff]

16. Septic tanks can be adequate, if there's enough property over which to spread the drainfield.

But they are not as good as a modern sewage treatment facility.

[BodieTown]

20. She Flushed It Down the City Sewer...

...which is not living off the grid. She owed thousands for doing this, but didn't pay.

And then there is storm drain runoff from her property, etc.

The city capped her sewer recently, so it does beg the question: What about sewage and runoff there in her suburban neighborhood?

I followed the links and got the updated details.

[joeglow3]

26. I am confused

She has no water hook-up, but can "flush" sewage? How does that work?

[BodieTown]

30. I Used to Be A Technical Writer...

...so here's the procedure (mostly explained in the links from the OP):

1. Collect rainwater in bucket.
2. Pour bucket of rainwater in toilet reservoir.
3. Take a dump in toilet.
4. Flush down city sewer.

[Renew Deal]

33. Thanks for using the technical terms

[packman]

61. Now, could you explain

How to build an atomic reactor in your garage for free electricity.

[jtuck004]

86. Actually you can pour the bucket straight into the toilet. And it gets more pressure like

that

Useful to know in repair pluming.

[hunter]

27. We pay a separate fee for sewage. That would work in Florida too.

Furthermore, the water we send down the drain gets recycled back into potable quality water at a cutting edge sewage treatment facility and is used to prevent saltwater intrusion into freshwater aquifers.

This woman's collected rainwater and subsequent sewerage could be treated as a resource, not waste, in a community that would rather solve problems than enforce conformity.

My parent's and my wife's parents live in places without community water or sewage service.

The wastewater disposal codes in their communities are both sophisticated and flexible.

Building inspectors have seen things like rainwater collection, composting toilets, and gray-water irrigation systems. They don't freak out about them.

[FSogol]

36. Except that the plumbing code has requirements for rainwater collection, composting toilets,

and gray water. No evidence that she has complied.

[hunter]

42. Have they got to the "Innocent until proven guilty" part?

Worse than some poor homeless person crapping in the alley behind the parking garage?

Does she have any opportunity for a reasonable sewage-only fee?

It's a problem to be solved, that's all.

Solve the fundamental problem without all the crap.

Then it won't be "news."

[FSogol]

43. The proper way to show compliance with the building codes is to get permit when you make

changes to your building/house. The onus is on her to comply with the codes, not the other way around.

[hunter]

46. So you are an authoritarian?

I'm not.

[FSogol]

50. I'm not either. However a city sanitary system isn't free. If is still using the system, then she

needs to help pay for it. Do you have any understanding of the civic need for proper plumbing? It is an important public health issue.

[CBGLuthier]

51. Aaahhh what's a little cholera between friends. So long as we are FREE!

[FSogol]

62. Seriously. Freedumb is on the march!

[hunter]

55. I pay the sewage fee.

They turn it back into potable water.

Or I could use some sort of composting toilet.

Again, what's the problem?

[hunter]

58. Has she the ability to pay for separate sewage disposal, without water service?

Has she the ability to process her own poop without public health risk?

That's the basic question.

Seriously, pee is generally not a problem. And if you have a few barrels to poop into you can put the full barrels aside for a year or two and then use your own crap as compost. Give the innocuous and plentiful natural bacteria time to eat all the pathogens.

Proper sanitation can be pretty simple. No pipes required. Even so simple as an above-groundwater-hole-in-the-ground and a bit of lime and sawdust.

No, do not pee or poop directly into surface or ground waters. That's not a difficult rule to follow or enforce.

[FSogol]

59. Not every area has a sewer fee. Most add it on to the water bill.

She lives in a city, not in the sticks. She doesn't have the ability to safely "process her poop" and is a public health hazard. Not that difficult to understand. Based on your knowledge of sanitation:

"Seriously, pee is generally not a problem. And if you have a few barrels to poop into you can put the full barrels aside for a year or two and then use your own crap as compost. Give the innocuous and plentiful natural bacteria time to eat all the pathogens."

I'm glad we are not neighbors.

[hunter]

68. I'm glad we are not neighbors too...

As I said, all my sewage is recycled back into potable water and I pay for that.

You act as if it is impossible to change laws that don't work or impossible to educate people who won't or can't conform.

That's an authoritarian viewpoint and it's sad.

[FSogol]

69. Again w/ the name calling? And where did I say anything about the impossiblility of changing laws?

The person in the article is a threat to public safety. Like it or not, the local government is doing the right thing.

[WinkyDink]

106. "all my sewage is recycled back into potable water"---Where the hell is THIS?

[hunter]

120. Lots of places. Here's a general article...

Drinking toilet water: The science (and psychology) of wastewater recycling

Would you drink water that came from a toilet? The imagery isn’t appealing. Even knowing that the water, once treated, may be cleaner than what comes out of most faucets, many people are disgusted by the idea. But in places like Singapore and Namibia, limited supplies of freshwater are being augmented by adding highly treated wastewater to their drinking water. As climate change and population growth strain freshwater resources, such strategies are likely to become more common around the world, and in the United States.

--snip--

http://www.earthmagazine.org/article/drinking-toilet-water-science-and-psychology-wastewater-recycling

[WinkyDink]

121. I didn't ask "Where is it in the larger world?" I asked YOU for YOUR town because of YOUR claim.

You said "MY."

[Ilsa]

64. I wouldn't compost poop.

Not human or pet. And Poop can also have waste from drugs, etc.

[FSogol]

70. They do have composting toilets, which are a high tech version of an outhouse.

We've put them in parks around here. The "dirt" that is removed from the process is a good fertilizer.

[Ilsa]

100. Good fertilizer, but not for growing food.

Carnivore poop presents health risks. Only herbivore poop is acceptable for developing fertilizer for growing food.

[840high]

65. Correct.

[Lurker Deluxe]

14. Wastewater

The wastewater you produce is not tracked. They charge you for the water you use. If her home is connected to the city sewer and she is not paying for water she is stealing that service, if enough people did that the people who actually pay for water would see their bill increase exponentially.

If she is not connected to city sewer there would be a well and septic on the property, and the well could be converted to run on solar power fairly easily, add an elevated tank and she would have running water.

[Android3.14]

24. More on tracking wastewater

All the towns in our area use the water consumption of city water as the amount to charge for processing wastewater.
Occasionally when people have a leak in their house, they will come to the town council and ask for the wastewater costs to be reduced for their bill because the water they used never actually went into the sewage system. The amount of town water people typically use for watering a lawn or such is minor compared to the total household consumption, so nobody squawks.

[TeeYiYi]

17. George Bush was applauded when he went off grid...

Pretty hypocritical...

President with a terrible environmental record, oil ties, etc. On the other, we have a President with a sustainable home that’s off-grid, features geothermal cooling and heating, passive solar, and a grey water system. Whoa? How do you go from installing such features and benefiting from them but not at all pushing them into the mainstream? Does Bush know something we don’t? Is he prepared while the rest of us are doomed?

Probably not. In fact, I’m going to bet it was not Bush who designated these eco-friendly additions but rather an architect. Such a person probably took note of the landscape and climate and designed a system that could efficiently survive drought and heat; without depending on electricity or fuel. From a security point of view, having a contained system also make sense. You’re not dependent on anyone for resources but yourself. Here’s a great snippet from the article,

“Wastewater from showers, sinks and toilets goes into purifying tanks underground — one tank for water from showers and bathroom sinks, which is so-called “gray water,” and one tank for “black water” from the kitchen sink and toilets. The purified water is funneled to the cistern with the rainwater. It is used to irrigate flower gardens, newly planted trees and a larger flower and herb garden behind the two-bedroom guesthouse. Water for the house comes from a well. The Bushes installed a geothermal heating and cooling system, which uses about 25% of the electricity that traditional heating and air-conditioning systems consume. Several holes were drilled 300 feet deep, where the temperature is a constant 67 degrees.” Even portions of the home are made from waste materials from a local quarry!

http://www.ecorazzi.com/2007/02/19/president-bushs-texas-ranch-is-off-grid-eco-friendly/

TYY

[valerief]

22. I remember this. But rules are different for the wealthy. nt

[TeeYiYi]

23. Hopefully this woman's attorney...

...can bring it up in her defense.

I'm in a position to go off grid and have considered it. I'll be interested to see how this plays out.

TYY

[valerief]

25. Lucky you! nt

[WolverineDG]

67. The "ranch" was also in a rural area with no services

not a city or suburb where there are lots of people in a small space.

[NightWatcher]

31. I bet she doesn't have a bundle of cable and phone service either

I wonder if Ma Bell would use that as a reason to evict people if they refused to get service. Sounds like a good way to force people to sign up for services they may not want or need. She doesn't need their electricity, nor their water. She's just fine without.

[hunter]

73. I told Comcast to quit billing me for -$0.04 or I'd rip their cable out of MY tube.

I suppose they wanted to maintain a "business relationship" with me so they could continue to call me on the phone, begging me to come back with extra special deals.

I went to their local office, collected my four cents, and they quit calling me. The poor guy who gave me my four cents entered on their computers that I'd moved. He must have been scared what his supervisor would say about losing a customer.

But they still send me a lot of "occupant" crap in the mail.

[TRoN33]

32. I just checked the federal laws and...

The officials who posted the threat of eviction paper on her door is considered very illegal and will be nullify under federal laws.

I'd bet this is an action by rogue city official, an Edison man with preference of dirty energy of nuclear, coal, and gas power plants. The federal laws actually does protect people who wants to live off grid for many reasons, include the medical reasons. I personally know this guy who are very allergic to electrical devices, he have to live absolute off grid.

Red states is regressing in alarming rate and getting much more worse everyday.

[GreenPartyVoter]

34. Being grid-tied is not an uncommon requirement. It is unfortunate that she did not realize

the situation at the time she converted her home.

[justiceischeap]

39. I researched the idea of going off-grid

and was disheartened to learn that in most municipalities there's even a square footage requirement. You can't have a tiny home on a piece of land you own.

[GreenPartyVoter]

45. Some regulations are useful, but others do leave me scratching my head.

[PoliticAverse]

53. Some are designed to keep poor people out of the neighborhood. n/t

[NYC_SKP]

96. Actually, she was very deeply involved in real estate, with blogs and DBAs.

She should have known, she must have know.

And she has a record for larceny (real estate), then violating probation. Who knows what else.

She founded a company called "Off the Grid Living" in 2012...

http://www.florida-companies-info.com/off-the-grid-living-inc-16lml/

There is a LOT of backstory with this one!

[GreenPartyVoter]

101. Oooohhh... This could get really interesting!

[Jenoch]

104. This woman thought she could scam people

with her off-the-grid crap and that the TV story would help her. She was wrong.

[Boom Sound 416]

37. She is skirting the issue a little by using the camp showers

[AZ Progressive]

41. You DON'T really OWN your own home

Even if you paid your home off. Just stop paying your property taxes for more than a year and see what happens.

Ultimately the city or county owns your home. Home ownership in most cases is just an illusion.

[druidity33]

94. You may own your home...

but you live in your community. Your property taxes contribute toward what's called the Commons. When you stop using every resource that was paid for by your community, then you can complain about your property taxes. If you think your local government spends too much and assesses too many taxes, be vocal... run for office if you want! You'll note however, that places with really low Property taxes often have very few resources... maybe you'd be happier in Tennessee or Mississippi?

[WolverineDG]

44. Uh, where does she use the toilet?

And how does she dispose of her garbage?

It's all fine & dandy to use solar power & rainwater systems. Kudos for that.

But I, for one, would not want to live next to someone using an outhouse. And trash pick up has to be paid for somehow as well.

[PotatoChip]

47. She may have a holding tank w/leach field.

And pay some local person to haul her trash to the dump- (or haul it herself).

That is what we do. My town does not provide those services.

Edit: I just looked up the stats for where she lives. In such a populated place, I doubt one could simply go to the dump like we do here. But perhaps she uses the city's garbage services. Doing that doesn't change the fact that she is otherwise living off the grid.

[Niceguy1]

54. septic tanks in the city dont

Work and tend to pollute well water due to the density in the city. That's why sewer hookups are required .

[WolverineDG]

66. Yes, but she needs to pay for those services just like everyone else

Otherwise, kudos to her for being energy-efficient.

[PotatoChip]

76. No disagreement from me

I'm neutral on the subject as to whether or not she should have to pay.

I was just pointing out that she could possibly have had her own septic system, as opposed to an outhouse; in response to your post.









<---I've always wanted an excuse to use this smilie.

[hunter]

48. 90% of my trash goes into the recycling bins or our compost heap.

My wastewater gets recycled.

Shouldn't it be this way EVERYWHERE?

[PotatoChip]

49. How does that work?

The wastewater recycling, I mean.

[hunter]

56. I pay for sewage service...

... the county has a cutting edge sewage treatment plant.

It works well.

Water distribution pipes carrying the recycled water are colored purple, but you could still drink the stuff without harm.

[PotatoChip]

63. Sounds like a good approach for water conservation. (nt)

[secondvariety]

72. Purple pipes

are for non-potable recycled water. Sometime in the future we'll be drinking "toilet to taps" water, but I wouldn't advise drinking it now.

[hunter]

78. It's potable water in this case.

The purple pipes are there to appease those who think that's yucky.

[secondvariety]

89. The municipality

that I work for has been reclaiming wastewater for about ten years. It's still used for irrigation and industrial use exclusively, but we're experimenting re-charging the aquifer with it. Where I am, purple pipes mean reclaimed water and it's not for drinking.

[quakerboy]

103. How about someone with a compost pile?

In this particular case, as has been mentioned several times above, she was apparently trying to game the system.

But outside of that, an outhouse doesn't have to be a smelly pit in the ground. It can be regularly emptied. I met one older fellow who had developed a strong belief that we as a society waste far too much water, so he stopped. He was big into wood working, who used all of his shavings and dust in a bucket to keep unpleasant waste from being too concentrated. His restroom and compost pile smelled of cedar and pine. And his flower garden was amazing.

He limited his water to drinking and showers, both supplied from rain. The shower was an outside contrivance he had built behind the house. His hygene products were home made, supplied by a neighbor, and the runoff went directly downhill to his garden.

He was an odd fellow, but I cant see anyone likely to complain about any product of his lifestyle, except perhaps the noise from his woodworking.

[Liberal_in_LA]

52. Florida!

[blackspade]

60. The corporation has to get paid!

We can't have any successful examples of sustainable living!

[Munificence]

71. I feel that if ones land

is rural in nature and falls outside of a municipality, burg, or city and there are "no restrictions" on the land, then I feel that a person should be able to decide at what level they want to live and within what era. For instance if one wanted to live like "rural folks" did 200 years ago then they should be able to pursue this.

Those folks from 200 years ago managed to survive and prosper...today most would run around like chicken little's screaming about the horrors of using an outhouse.

I know of a guy that lives in an old log cabin, catches rainwater, takes a bath in the creek and uses an outhouse....he has chosen to do this and probably has a net worth of more than 90% of our society. I use to call him crazy, now I think I wanna be him. He is likewise surrounded by 200 acres of pure beauty that he owns of which he taps the maples and makes around $15K a year in syrup proceeds. The guy is rich, not from a monetary sense, but instead in his happiness.

[ejpoeta]

114. i agree. as long as you aren't imposing it on children, the no water thing...

then you should be able to do what you want. just pay your taxes and it should be fine. I personally am very interested in solar and wind power, and we have begun composting some and I would love to do rain barrels.... but that is as far as I can go. I have lived without running water.... not happening.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

74. Hillbilly drifters living "off the grid" destroyed the ground water where my grandparents lived

And in the mid-80's they had a typhoid outbreak... pardon me, they had a "freedom" outbreak.

[hunter]

83. In my great grandma's case it was wealthier "backpackers" and tourists with money.

Her family homesteaded some mountain foothills the mid-1800's.

She was righteously pissed off at the morons who didn't know how to safely take a crap.

A pile of crap near the creek, with fancy toilet paper, that would set her raging.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

75. Another day...

...another Brown Shirt makes the news.

[liberal N proud]

81. It is all about what everything is all about - GREED!

Some city fuck sees a parcial that is not generating revenue. So they decided they will get it one way or another.

Greed is consuming America.

[Curmudgeoness]

82. We all know

that they are just trying to chase away the crazy hippie from the neighborhood.

[NYC_SKP]

84. "The Cape Coral resident said she will dispose of waste just as dog owners do for pets."

No septic system, apparently. Her neighbors have a right to not have her fouling the soil and water around her home.

Cape Coral is a aquatic neighborhood with over 400 miles of navigable waterways, Cape Coral has more miles of canals than any other city in the world.

It doesn't appear that her yard would have the required area and soil conditions to support a septic tank and leach field, not one that would work correctly and in a healthy fashion.

... For her part, Speronis said she does not intend to hook up to the city’s water system, vowing to appeal the Magistrate’s ruling.

“I know how to live off the grid completely and in a sanitary way,” Speronis said in response to the city’s action, according to The News-Press. “That’s what seven months living in the woods taught me. I do have an alternative toilet from my days of living in the woods.”

The Cape Coral resident said she will dispose of waste just as dog owners do for pets. She also plans to collect wastewater in containers for use in her garden.

Speronis already collects rainwater for bathing and other uses, all while generating electricity with solar panels. ...

http://rt.com/usa/florida-woman-private-utilities-735/

I don't have a problem with her generating her own power, and I don't know if she has a reasonably safe source of water.

If she wants to live off the land she should do it in a less densely populated area.

[Systematic Chaos]

107. I lived there in 1981-82 and I miss it in some ways.

Not enough to want to go back and stay, though. Not with the place about to get swallowed by the ocean.

[NYC_SKP]

108. I like the water theme, but like you it's not secure from ocean rise or tidal surges.

I just bought a place on the coast that's just high enough to not be in the flood or the tsunami zone.



I just noticed the sign the other day.

[ileus]

85. It's about CONTROL and showing her who she belongs to.

[jmowreader]

88. I'm siding with the city on this one

Living off-the-grid is fine if you live on five acres outside the city limits. There you have enough room for a proper leach field, a well, and everything else you need to do it without contracting cholera on a regular basis.

When you live in the city (especially one with a large population, like Cape Coral has), your neighbors need some assurance that you're not living in a manner that will do them harm, and we don't have that here. Urban density and the country life don't mix.

[NYC_SKP]

95. Robin Marie Speronis has a past. She's a crook with a crooked past.

http://www.cape-coral-daily-breeze.com/page/content.detail/id/525311.html

http://hiddenpast.org/ArrestMugshot/ROBIN_SPERONIS/22233376473910

In fairness, she might also be crazy, lost her husband, maybe sprung a sanity leak.

She was a friend of the Tsongas family:

He served up a city's memories
At his restaurant and in the community, Zenny Speronis touched lives
By Jennifer Myers, [e-mail]
Updated: 09/30/2010 11:33:16 AM EDT

LOWELL -- It started with a conversation.

"Call Zenny and find out when Oktoberfest is," then-U.S. Rep. Paul Tsongas instructed teenage intern Robin Morrissette in early 1975.

She called Zenny Speronis, a man more than 30 years her senior, and the connection was instant.

"He made an impression on me and I think I made an impression on him," she recalled.

Read more: http://www.lowellsun.com/rss/ci_16214611#ixzz2uOOhQ87Z

[Kali]

97. how long before shit like this happens to you if you don't watch television?

[madville]

99. I could live like that at my house

I'm out in a rural area, the closest small town of 3,000 is 12 miles away. The small county government pretty much leaves people alone unless it's a flagrant violation that is affecting neighbors and they receive complaints.

[Shankapotomus]

102. Good to know when I finally

set up my own modest off-grid place to not share it with the local press should they inquire. I'm sorry this woman has to have her quality of life threatened like this. I understand the need for environmental standards but, as long as they are not polluting or damaging the ecosystem, people should not be required to deal with a paid "middleman" between them and the planet.

[Jim Lane]

110. Her lawyer is the guy who foreclosed on the Bank of America.

I thought his name sounded familiar.

"Bank of America pays debt instead of losing furniture"

There were some threads about it here, and a hilarious Daily Show segment.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

111. LOOK OUT!!! DANGER!!! OTHERS COULD DO THIS TOO!!! (Mob enforcers dispatched).

[flobee1]

112. I think she needs to hook the guy up to the solar batteries

to prove she has electricity, and then put out the fire with water from the rain barrels!

[IrishAyes]

116. I read several accounts of this and one critical detail's often left out:

She is supposedly using the city sewer system and not paying for that. It would be fine if she didn't use any city services AT ALL w/o paying, but she's actually leaching off the other taxpayers who have to pay. No government can be run on air. If she wants the benefits of city living, she needs to pony up her fair share. From the looks of her house, she could afford to do so, too.

There can be no digging of outhouse pits on city properties for a huge variety of reasons. So this woman needs to buy herself an Incinolet or a good compost toilet. I've also read accounts (true???) that she disposes of her human waste in the garbage - and isn't paying for that service either. Besides, can you imagine the can of worms THAT would open? Millions of people sending untreated poop to the municipal dump? Want that in your groundwater????

I'd love to have more sympathy for this woman but she's NOT 'living green'. She's living cheap in a very dangerous manner, at the expense of and direct danger to her fellow citizens.