ARE more Guns the Answer to Gun Violence in This country?

[yuiyoshida]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Sissyk (a host of the General Discussion forum).

Last edited Wed Feb 26, 2014, 05:41 PM - Edit history (1)

A certain DUer has told me that the answer to Gun Violence is more guns. I told him Most of DU would say no. I am betting that I am right. So, once and for all.. Please prove to me, that while I have my finger in the wind, its going in the correct direction!



Edited: to add the quote:
"The latest gun stats in our country show that there has been a very large increase in the purchase of firearms during the Obama presidency and that during that same period of time violent crime has gone down. So according to those stats more guns mean less violent crime."

14 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Poll closed
	YES, absolutely!!
	4 (29%)
	No...
	0 (0%)
	Hell No!
	8 (57%)
	Not sure, I don't know.
	0 (0%)
	OTHER.
	2 (14%)
	1 DU member did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[Make7]

1. TYT: More Guns Is Safer, Right? Missouri Has The Answer

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017177239

[yuiyoshida]

5. yes well it

figures, right

[JaneyVee]

2. Like the answer to cancer deaths is more cigarettes.

[yuiyoshida]

3. Brilliant!

[Vashta Nerada]

4. It's like asking if going on the Paula Deen diet can make one healthier.

The obvious answer is hell no.

[yuiyoshida]

8. I guess I should have posted a

"Hell Yes" YEEHaww blam! blam! blam! choice.

[former9thward]

6. A self-serving poll as I predicted.

[yuiyoshida]

7. You had the chance to make a poll... you chose not to.

ITS A SIMPLE question, isn't it?

[former9thward]

10. No, its not simple.

But anyone who automatically equates the number of guns with "gun violence" -- whatever that undefined term means -- thinks it is simple and that is the problem. They don't recognize the many other variables involved. Which is why debate is pretty useless on the subject.

[yuiyoshida]

12. I didn't make the STATEMENT

GO BACK TO MY THREAD. LOOK WHO DID... HE REFUSED to make a poll. He seems to think that DU would back his statement. I said no they would not. GO back and read it..would you like me to link it for you?


Edit to include the statement: (Reply #33)

"The latest gun stats in our country show that there has been a very large increase in the purchase of firearms during the Obama presidency and that during that same period of time violent crime has gone down. So according to those stats more guns mean less violent crime. "

[former9thward]

15. The statement is in your poll.

So you own it. I don't care where it came from.

[yuiyoshida]

16. You know what?

If you don't care where it came from, you obviously are not caring for anything else, so have a great day, won't you?

[CreekDog]

81. are they supposed to ask a poll question that you approve?

one that would serve you?

[former9thward]

91. Why would you think that?

I don't care what poll questions are asked. This poll came from another thread btw. Try to follow.

[wocaonimabi]

9. So if all the people who don't own guns, which is the MAJORITY of Americans

went out and bought a gun we the majority could take all the guns away from the people who insist on having them and not be part of a militia.

[yuiyoshida]

11. Not without a hell of a lot of

Blood shed.

[wocaonimabi]

13. You say that like it is a problem or something

[former9thward]

14. Since you have no problem with I expect you will be out front and first.

Come on, do it. Get away from the keyboard.

[wocaonimabi]

20. I have no problem leading the troops and having to do what is necessary

and no I would not lose any sleep over it either.

[former9thward]

26. I love internet tough guys.

The funny thing is they think other people are impressed by the b.s.

[wocaonimabi]

28. Yes Yes Yes all I is, is an internet tough guy, keep on thinking that way

If given the legal opportunity to take the guns away I would and by any means necessary.

Then we will see what is more important to the Gunners their Precious or the law.

[former9thward]

32. Except "legal opportuunity" and "by any means necessary" do not mean the same thing.

'by any means necessary' means outside the law. But that it easy to say for keyboard warriors. Go get 'em!

[yuiyoshida]

56. So wocaonimabi

Did you vote? Yes? No? Hell no? I did not see your name. You could be #5 on the Yes list!

[wocaonimabi]

66. Does it matter you know my opinion?

[yuiyoshida]

68. oh come on...

you answered the poll you may as well vote in it.

[wocaonimabi]

69. Sorry pointless and meaningless

[yuiyoshida]

71. I see so...

"Other" does not appeal to you. Never understand that people have a huge opinion about something but they wont bother to put their vote in public..

[Common Sense Party]

53. So, in order to solve gun violence, your solution is...gun violence?

Against the 99.5% of gun-owners who are not the problem?

What an elegant solution. Or a final solution.

[wocaonimabi]

67. It is all those that have guns understand.

In reality guns would not be needed plenty of other ways are available.

[Common Sense Party]

73. My guess is that you have no idea what gun owners do or do not understand.

And yet you advocate violence as a way to solve the "problem" that I legally own a firearm.

[yuiyoshida]

18. Well I suppose all that blood on the ground

Will make a few plants grow.

[wocaonimabi]

21. it will attract flies first

eventually the plants will grow and we will no longer have to worry about kids getting shot in schools or people getting gunned down for being black in America.

[yuiyoshida]

27. Flies gotta eat...

Yeah.

[stillcool]

17. not where I live..

But I wouldn't want to go to any red state unarmed.

[yuiyoshida]

19. so if your answer is yes...

please check yes in the poll.

[stillcool]

23. my answer is no...

I have no intention of going to any red state, or any other part of the world that accepts random killings.

[yuiyoshida]

24. okay!

I just want to make sure eveyone picks a choice, be it yes or no. I put "Hell no" cause I knew someone would ask for it.

[hack89]

22. Were you able to refute his statement?

do you have any evidence that violent crime has increased? Or do you believe that gun ownership has decreased?

[yuiyoshida]

25. He stated further on in the link

That most people would agree on that as a fact. I said, not on DU. I asked him to post a poll. Lets find out. He refused. Than, someone else stated that I could not speak for DU. No of course i can not, but one need only put one's finger in the wind to find out which way the wind is blowing. IF he was right, than I guess He would be right. But I been here long enough to know what DUers reaction would be. He refused to do the poll, but I wanted to do it, to end this nonsense once and for all about DU's stance on gun violence.

[hack89]

30. Well it is a fact that violent crime has declined significantly in the past 20 years

you can't argue that point. The reasons for that decline I am sure are complex and many.

[yuiyoshida]

33. BINGO!

Where were you when I needed you!

[hack89]

35. And it is also a fact that more guns did not result in more violent crime

which is reassuring.

[yuiyoshida]

39. I am sure he would want proof of that...

You would probably have to provide three credible links. At least!

[hack89]

44. I think that was his point

that more guns did not result in more violent crime.

[yuiyoshida]

45. Um how did you get that...??

Read what he said. I made it in bold print.

"So according to those stats more guns mean less violent crime."

If we had more guns, there would be less violent crimes...meaning..yes, lets arm everyone. My answer is.. hell no.

[ManiacJoe]

65. Your are correct in that the quoted person

is misreading the stats. The correct interpretation is "More guns do not lead go more crime" as you and others have already stated.

Also, the corrected statement is "One of many answers to gun violence is more guns in the correct hands".

[yuiyoshida]

70. We did not even ask that last question

That might be a separate poll. I am not going to do it, one a day is enough.

[Hoyt]

36. Otherr factors impact crime. Without so many of your beloved guns, crime might be less.

[hack89]

42. "Violent crime is not falling fast enough" is not a particularly compelling argument

considering it has been falling for 20 years and continues to fall. But at least you have accepted that basic fact, which is encouraging.

[Rex]

29. I say firearms don't go far enough! A nuclear bomb in every garage!

Show those neighbors you mean business, don't just give empty threats to Fido pooping in your yard...LANDMINES!

[yuiyoshida]

31. Rex.....

May I move in next to you? Better yet, come to San Francisco..we will find you a house!

[Rex]

34. I've always wanted to move to a progressive area, south Texas here...

my neighbors are all convinced that evil 'Marxist Obama' is coming (any year now) feeerrrr all their guuuuuuuuuuuuuuunnsss!

The stupid hurts sometimes...I might take you up on that offer!

[yuiyoshida]

38. YOU might want to know that SAN FRANCISCO

Has a population of mostly people who MOVED HERE. I was lucky to be born here.. but THERE ARE many more people who immigrated to this city, FOR various reasons. Frankly, I think its because we have the best damn food in the country, but you know.. many people have other reasons. Oh, and some might say New Orleans has great food and they do, but many of their famous chefs have.... (wait for it)...MOVED to San Francisco!

[Rex]

41. San Fran is on my list of places to go.

I can only imagine how well the local cuisine tastes! Yes, I am eyeballing The Crab Station right now!

[yuiyoshida]

52. gaaahhh......

I can't wait for payday. I am going to pig out on a sushi patter to end all sushi platters!

[pipoman]

37. It is apparent that the number of guns has nothing

to do with gun violence stats. That is unless we are talking about the fantasy of an American society without guns v. one with guns. As it is now though, the stats don't support the oft stated 'more guns = more gun violence' meme.

[yuiyoshida]

40. My dear Pipoman

Please proceed...( to explain it to him)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024565200#post70

[Aerows]

43. Guns are helpful

against animals in rural areas. Nobody should contend against a 6 foot alligator or a wild hog without one. But as protection against other people? Yes, there are situations that call for that. Protection of the home, protection of you when in your car minding your own business.

The line gets crossed when you incite violence simply because you are pissed off and want to kill. That line gets crossed with police officers every day across the country and they don't even have to use guns to do it.

Our issue in this country is that violence seems to be the go-to option, and just having more guns plentiful exacerbates that to a higher level. At this point, in American society, if baseball bats were the only thing around, there would be baseball bat violence exploding.

Yes, plentiful guns are definitely a problem. Why we feel the need to be so militarized and violent is at the heart of the problem.

[yuiyoshida]

60. Perhaps in stead we should have more

training in the use of pepper spray. Its certainly cheaper, and there are less funerals to go to, fewer Courts to attend, and fewer chances of ending up in prison the rest of your life.

[Aerows]

63. Amen!

I couldn't agree with you more!

[XRubicon]

46. If you add LOL as an option, I'll vote

[yuiyoshida]

49. can you believe it...

Someone voted "YES!" .... okay!! Here we go!!!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

47. Sure. The same way that dousing a fire with kerosene is.

[yuiyoshida]

50. AND YET...

WE have two brave souls who believe its the answer!!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

51. Yep. Just like there are people here who think giving more money to politicians will get money out

of politics.

[DanTex]

48. People who deny that more gun access means more gun violence are on par with GW deniers.

It's just willfull stupidity at this point.

[KamaAina]

54. Not unless the question is

"How do we increase gun violence from its already ridiculous levels?"

[yuiyoshida]

55. AND yet.... now...

We have four brave souls who think the answer is, ARM EVERYONE!

[30cal]

57. I think it's a crazy in the sense that it's true that one of worst feelings a

person can have is needing a gun and not having one. I don't particularly like guns
or have one but I can see if I lived somewhere rural I would like to be able to at least have
some form of protection other than a baseball bat or pepper spray.

I have a very dear friend that lives in Wyoming .
His work takes him away from home sometimes over night and his wife
is home alone with the dogs.

There is a police force of some type , sheriff and deputies of some sort that will cover
the area. When I visited them I was amazed how far the actual town was from where their home was located.
It took us 30 to 35 minutes to drive to town in good weather conditions . Distance wise was maybe 30 miles or so.
We passed 4 other homes and a small housing development on the road.
My point is calling 911 in some places can be very difficult when a threat is near.

As to your question do more guns make a safer nation? I would say no but then again that's like asking do more poor
or desperate or drug addicted people make a safer nation?

I think when needed a gun can save an Innocent life and it can also kill an Innocent life

[yuiyoshida]

58. so did you vote?

I want everyone to throw their name up there, even if its Other.. and I don't have a problem with pepper spray being used. It should not kill anyone, unless they have breathing problems or a bad heart. But if they threaten you, you could use it if its to your advantage to do so. It would never work against someone holding a gun on you, unless you were sneaky and quick. But you want to feel protected, than pepper spray might be good answer. I would advise to stay out of wind gusts though...especially if it was heading in your direction!
'

[30cal]

59. You didn't address any of my thoughts and real life example I gave

[yuiyoshida]

61. Than vote other...

At least you voted.

[HockeyMom]

78. Worse living in a gun household

when you don't want to be surrounded by guns which can be used against you by someone you know, or don't know.

[sakabatou]

62. Fuck no

[yuiyoshida]

64. Wow Sakabatou san....

We both know the answer is...


More Katana training

[sakabatou]

72. Depends.

Outside; katana. Inside; wakazashi.

[yuiyoshida]

74. oh bravo!

Right on the money!

[sakabatou]

75. 3 years of high school Japanese & culture

will do that.

[yuiyoshida]

79. O.O

You had Japanese culture in High School? Wow! Where do you live where there are a lot of Japanese? I live in San Francisco and we never had that, infact, they hardly covered Asia at all in our history books. Like what was going on, in China while people in the Mediterranean were having a cultural explosion. You would have thought my ancestors were still living in trees while that was going on..by the way they taught about it. =.=


Sir that's interesting...what was going on in China during the Time of Greece?

"nothing"

Oh...thank you sir..

[sakabatou]

82. Yeah, though, Asia was mostly discussed an studied in middle school.

Hell, we even played a "command and conquer" type game for Japan.

[mwrguy]

76. ZERO guns is the answer n/t

[oneshooter]

80. And we all know how you want it done.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172138240


mwrguy (1,316 posts)
3. Notarized confession + Google maps + squad cars =

quick ride to jail, or cold dead hands, their choice

All those surplus MRAPs will finally come in handy.

[Lost_Count]

86. Well... That's both hypocritical and creepy...

Double points...

[Lizzie Poppet]

92. 'Coz by golly, only big strong aggressive people should get their way!

Only the weak need some coward's tool to prevail!

[ZombieHorde]

77. I don't think so. nt

[Packerowner740]

83. Hell no!

[Tuesday Afternoon]

84. It's not the guns, it's the ammo ...

[Eleanors38]

85. I see no convincing evidence to-date which shows the

number of guns in the U.S. is linked to homicide rates. Gun ownership for self-defense is an individual choice, not social policy, and there is as yet insufficient evidence that it has a positive (lessening) effect on crime/homicides.

One thing is quite clear: The controller/banner meme that "more guns=more crime" has not been proven by the evidence. This is something controller/banners have a difficult time accepting.

[Recursion]

87. Reducing the number of handguns in circulation would be a good step

Actually getting there, in a way that respects the largely-legitimate right to own a gun, is the hard part.

So the first problem is the number of handguns (specifically, handguns). The second problem is the ease with which they are transfered from one person to another. These two are linked -- in a country awash in cheap handguns, there's not a simple way to keep people from managing to get one (c.f. alcohol, marijuana, etc.). Guns are already run using the same infrastructure drugs are, but we don't want a legal regime that pushes even more guns into that nexus.

Finally, as in all issues of public safety, we're left with the puzzling fact that despite all the trends we lament over the past 20 years, gun deaths are a fraction of what they were 20 years ago, with the vast majority of gun deaths now being suicides (homicide has gone down, suicide hasn't particularly).

[Warren Stupidity]

88. gungeoneers, horrified at their minority status here on display, want this op locked RIGHT F'ING NOW

[oneshooter]

89. And you know this for sure,how?

[Left2Tackle]

90. Walking Dead has shattered my faith in humanity.

Swords, we could use some more swords too. They'll come handy.

[Sissyk]

93. Locking

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