Yanukovich says he's still president, asks Russia to ensure his safety.

[another_liberal]

This guy is clearly not giving up. As RT News reports:

Viktor Yanukovich still considers himself the legitimate leader of Ukraine and warns against an internal military conflict, according to a statement. He also asks Russia to ensure his safety against the actions of “extremists” that took power in Ukraine. “On the streets of many cities of our country, extremism thrives. Threats of bodily harm are thrown at me and my collaborators. I’m forced to ask the Russian authorities to ensure my personal security against the actions of extremists,” Yanukovich said.

Yanukovich’s security will reportedly be ensured on Russian territory “in connection with the fact that President Yanukovich appealed to the Russian authorities to ensure his personal safety,” a source inside the Russian authorities told Interfax. The southeast of the country and the Crimea don’t acknowledge the mayhem in Ukraine under which “leaders are chosen by the crowd,” news agencies quote Yanukovich's statement. Yanukovich also said that he hadn’t ordered the Ukrainian army to interfere in the internal political events, and he doesn’t order it now, the statement reads. “If someone gave such orders to the armed or security forces, these orders would be illegitimate, criminal,” Yanukovich stated.

However, the leader of the Batkivshina (Fatherland) party, Arseny Yatsenyuk, has said that Yanukovich is no longer the country’s president and that he has been put on an international wanted list. Yanukovich’s former Interior Minister, Vitaly Zakharchenko, has also been put on an international wanted list.

(snip)

Read more at: http://rt.com/news/yanukovich-president-ukraine-statement-002/

[SidDithers]

1. RT. LOL...nt

Sid

[another_liberal]

2. Hi there, sid.

Nice of you to stop by. Have a great day!

[Comrade Grumpy]

38. Nice reflex there, Sid, but who better to put forward the Russian viewpoint?

[SidDithers]

39. As long as everyone recognizes that it's the Russian viewpoint...

Many DUers labour under the mistaken impression that RT is an impartial, reliable, progressive news source.

Sid

[sabrina 1]

61. Many DUers are pretty good at figuring things all on their own. I know you think we need you to

choose our sources for us. That's nice, but here in the US there ARE millions of intelligent people who manage to choose sources of info, all by themselves. Isn't that good news for you? You don't have to worry so much about us anymore.

And btw, unless you support coups, Yano IS still the duly elected president of the Ukraine.

[SidDithers]

68. Speaking of DUers that think RT is a reliable news source....nt

Sid

[sabrina 1]

69. What made you think I only THINK it is a reliable news source, I KNOW it is. There, fixed it for you

Btw, I have never seen you debunk any of RT's news reports, just the usual roly poly guy which is supposed to mean something, but no one has been able to figrure out what he is actually saying.

RT, award winning news source before it was even two years old. Did the Corporate Media get any awards for their news reporting lately?

Wait, they did, they were dropped to around #47 on Reporters Without Borders World Free Press.

[SidDithers]

73. sabrina. LOL...nt

Sid

[sabrina 1]

74. Sid, Dahlink, you didn't tell me what I wanted to hear.

A real, in depth critique of RT's news reporting, pointing out wrong information.

Or even a short one would do?

[sabrina 1]

60. Sid! Lol ... nt

[SidDithers]

67. sabrina! LOL!...nt

Sid

[hobbit709]

3. And Louis XVI thought he was "Le Roi" right up to when he was shortened.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

4. Dude, you lost. Go find yourself a nice dacha in the now-vacant Sochi, retire and STFU. n/t

[malaise]

5. Replace his name with Obama

Assume a teabagger and RW militia alliance and a coup.

What would be your answer.

Nothing is that simple.

[another_liberal]

6. Well said!

Supporting the violent overthrow of any democratically elected government is never a good idea, not if one wants to live in a democracy oneself.

[pampango]

12. A violent overthrow? He still had the army, the police and the Berkut on his side when he signed

the agreement with the protesters. It's not like the army defected over to the side of the protesters. Neither did the police or the Berkut. He did not have to leave. When he surprisingly left Kiev and then the country altogether, what was the opposition to do? Insist that he return to live up to the bargain that he signed? Or to assume that his departure meant that he was giving up power altogether?

If elements of the army or security forces had overthrown Yanukovych, that would be a violent overthrow. Or if violent elements among the protesters had somehow secured enough high-powered weapons to overpower the army and security forces, that would be a violent overthrow. The protesters were outgunned 1,000 to 1. They did not triumph through force of arms.

Tens of thousands of peaceful protesters along with some guys with baseball bats and makeshift medieval shields (which proved to be as ineffective as one would expect against sniper rifles) caused Yanukovych to lose his nerve. Some of the protesters had rifles, but no one suggests that they were not outgunned 1,000 to 1 by the security forces.

Now he has run home to 'daddy' (Putin) who outguns the Ukrainian military 1,000 to 1. Maybe the military odds will work in Yanukovych's favor this time if he does not lose his nerve again.

[another_liberal]

35. Yes, Yanukovich signed an agreement . . .

That agreement, in part, was that Yanukovich would remove riot police from the streets of Kiev; in return, the protesters pledged they would not act to remove Yanukovic from office. He kept his part of the deal, the protesters, though, staged their coup as soon as the riot police were out of the way.

As to your other point: Violence is violence, no matter who does it. Violent coups are carried out by non-army actors quite often.

[pampango]

44. "The Government will use law enforcement forces exclusively for the physical protection of public

buildings."

The forces of authorities and of the opposition will step back from confrontational posture. The Government will use law enforcement forces exclusively for the physical protection of public buildings.

http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/671350/publicationFile/190051/140221-UKR_Erklaerung.pdf

Yanukovych failed to comply with his end of the agreement. Not only was he permitted to use security forces to protect himself, government officials and public buildings, he was required to do so by the agreement he had just signed.

The Government will use law enforcement forces exclusively for the physical protection of public buildings.

Rather than do that, Yanukovych chose to flee Kiev. Maybe he didn't think the security forces would follow his orders any more. Maybe he just wanted to take the money and run.

If he had used law enforcement to protect public buildings and then protesters had violently overpowered the security forces, then I would agree that it was a violent overthrow. That is not what happened. He just left in the middle of the night rather than stay and do the job he had agreed to do until the elections that were to be in December.

[another_liberal]

45. Since when is taking a trip considered "abandonment of office?"

There is one really damning aspect of this whole "abandonment of office" argument: Since when is a national President taking a trip, for whatever reason, considered grounds for overturning the results of a democratic election? That is completely hollow and a mere grasping at straws for a way to justify and whitewash what was clearly a coup, plain and simple.

[okaawhatever]

55. Sure, because the way to stage a coup is to stand peacefully in the streets for two

months. It wasn't the protesters who ordered snipers to kill police, it was the other way around. Yanukovych's staunchest supporters abandoned him after that. That would include the mayor of Kiev and his own party members. Your "taking a trip" claim is beyond absurd. It insults the intelligence of everyone here at DU. If President Obama disappears for a week and doesn't tell anyone, including his own party, where he is staying, he's abandoned office. Seeking refuge in a foreign country is not Presidential behavior.

Perhaps your hero Yanukovych should hold off resuming his Presidency until after he faces war crimes charges at the Hague. He has a lot to answer for including billions in missing money.

Maybe it's time for you to stop reading only pro-Russian propaganda. People don't read RT if they want to know the truth about Russia's involvement in things.

[dipsydoodle]

8. That's the analogy

which most here conveniently ignore.

[Adrahil]

9. Yeah, cause Yanukovich is exactly like Obama...

... except this situation is completely different and Yanukovich is nothing like Obama.

[malaise]

52. Clearly you haven't heard the RWs' comments on Obama

and their ludicrous plans to overthrow him.

[sabrina 1]

63. Ssshhhhh ... you're pointing out inconvenient inconsistencies whereby we are supposed to support

right wing coups in other people's countries. Those poor people are DIFFERENT to us. They apparently don't have any right to democracies, unlike us who brutally attacke peaceful demonstrators just to show how democratic we are. I never saw those now so outraged over protesters being mistreated as outraged when OWS was under attack here by government agencies. Interesting, no?

[malaise]

64. That's why I suggested that it's time for Richard Engel

to cover some protests in his own country for a change

I don't plan to forget the treatment of those young Occupy folks.

[sabrina 1]

75. I'm willing to bet Engel was not OUTRAGED by the brutality against OWS protesters.

Maybe he missed all the violence against those protesters, the near killing of two Iraq Vets, one beaten so badly he lost his spleen, the other hit with some kind of weapon by a Robo Cop, then those who tried to help him, hit again by a Robo Cop to try to stop them from helping. And those are only t wo incidents.

I agree, maybe we should to to his twitter acount and ask him to look closer to home to find outrageous attacks on peaceful protesters.

[Adrahil]

72. His OWN PARTY chucked him out as well.... talk about convenient omissions!

And yes, I WAS (and AM) outraged by how OWS was treated (I was not posting here at the time, or you would have certainly heard me).

[sabrina 1]

77. Do you support coup d'etats in democracies?

Eg, we had an election stolen back in 2000. Should we have toppled that illegitimate 'government', where a case could be made might have saved the lives of hundreds of thousands of innocent human beings? Or was it better to wait for the next election, also extremely questionable, all the while more people were dying. I remember after the 2004 election eg, Bush announced 'I have political capital and I intend to use it' after which we destroyed Fallujah. I remember the grotesque pictures of bodies, men, women and children from that criminal enterprise.

But it never occurred to us to try to overturn that illegitimate government because have committed, as a society to a civilized process. Congress could have impeached them for their crimes, lies that led to war eg, torture, spying on the American people etc, but they refused to do so.

So I've been thinking, I'm seeing some support HERE for these violent overthrows of democratic governments and elected officials, presumably not a stolen election like ours. Were we wrong not to overthrow that government, or are coups just for 'lesser' people?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

10. Yanukovych is not Obama. The Ukrainian opposition is not the tea party.

And Ukraine is anything but the United States.

But you are actually correct that nothing is that simple.

It is damn near impossible to draw close analogies between political situations in two different countries.

[sabrina 1]

70. Yes, yes, we know, those um, not quite Western Imperialist countries all over the place, the ME,

LA, Eastern Europe, are just too inferior to the great USA to be able to 'manage' democracy. When WE do it, steal elections etc, illegally invade and slaughter hundreds of thousands of innocent human beings, torture people, collapse the world's economies with our corrupt Bankers making off with the loot, it's 'cause we are so soooooperior.

Did you know that the Ukraine is/was a Democracy, that the president was ELECTED by a majority of the people, and that there was a way to replace him WITH the Democratic Process?

I'm assuming you did but for some reason view those 'people' as 'different' to us. What do you mean by ''the Ukrain is anything but the US'??? Why do you think we are so superior? I assume that is what you meant.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

76. Um, no. That's not what I meant.

What I meant is that Ukraine ("the Ukraine" is non-standard, by the way) is its own country, with its own history, culture, value system, etc. that is unique to Ukraine.

To be unique does not make one inferior. It makes one unique.

So it's impossible to say, "Well, in Ukraine, X is the Democrats, Y is the Republicans, Z is Obama, etc." That's demeaning the situation by viewing their problems through a strictly American lens.

Besides, it would be pretty silly to claim Ukrainians are inferior, given that I'm half Ukrainian and was raised with a rich sense of Ukrainian culture. But go ahead and put words in my mouth.

[sabrina 1]

78. Well we all have our ethnic backgrounds, that doesn't make us experts on our countries of origin, if

anything, we are likely to be more biased than when the issue is not OUR country of origin. And of course other democracies have different systems, such as the British Parliament eg. I agree it is demeaning to view other countries through a strictly American lens, but that's what we do here, isn't it? ONLY WE can 'bring democracy' to the ME, but sadly OUR idea of what THEY needed has turned out to be one of the most tragic and devastating destructions of a nation for a long time.

Maybe we should just trust that other countries CAN and have worked out their own business long before we even existed. One has to wonder how the world survived before we came along to set it straight.

We've certainly had our own corrupt governments here, completely illegitimate actually, 2000, stolen election, leading to the collapse of our economy, the loss of hundreds of thousands of lives, but we didn't topple that government. Perhaps had we done so it would have been better for us and the rest of the world. On a short term basis, but coups rarely result in civilized societies, looking around at the many that have occurred over the past decades.

Which is why, despite the terrible results of our own illegitimate government, imo, it was still better not to dispense with a civilized way of getting rid of bad, corrupt leaders. I feel the same way for all Democracies.

[KoKo]

19. Well stated, malaise....

[malaise]

51. Democracy is not regime change that suits the agenda of special interests

[okaawhatever]

24. Okay then. Why don't we go ahead and try him for the murders it looks very much like he

committed. Even international news sources are saying there's evidence he ordered the murder of protesters. When his sorry ass is in prison they someone else can take over. Don't even compare Obama to this animal,

[malaise]

65. Try Bush, Cheney, Blair et al first

they killed hundreds of thousands in their illegal war - invasion and occupation of Iraq. They even hanged their former ally as entertainment over Christmas holidays. But I forget - international law is not for Westerners.

[okaawhatever]

79. Why don't we deal with the problem in front of us and stop deflecting. Why don't we charge Putin for

the murders he's committed? At least he's part of the conversation. I get it that you hate America, you routinely make that clear, but this is about the people of Ukraine and what's happening to them. Their former leader, the ex-convict, has stolen untold billions of dollars and ordered snipers to kill peaceful protesters. But hey, let's ignore that and bring up Bush Cheney..............

[malaise]

80. You can do as you like

Me hate America - surely you jest.

[snooper2]

25. um, no, not at all

fail

[geek tragedy]

30. Had Obama ordered Team SEAL snipers to shoot protestors

and had embezzled billions of dollars and had been impeached by the House and removed from office by the Senate, yeah he would not have a right to be president anymore.

[okaawhatever]

56. Exactly nt

[pscot]

41. Take your analogy a step further

If Obama had called on NSA snipers to gun down a hundred or so Occupy protesters what would be your answer?

[El_Johns]

50. +1

[dipsydoodle]

7. For the time being,

like it or not, he does in fact remain their President under their constitution.

[Adrahil]

11. Well he was impeached....

You can argue that the process did not meet the Byzantine requirements of the Constitution, and you would be technically right, but Over 70% of parliament voted to remove him. The bill of impeachment was authored by a Socialist member who was in his ruling coalition as well.


He's done.

[dipsydoodle]

13. I don't disagree that's he's done

but the fact remains that the process so far is not in keeping with their constitution.

If they even keep to that fat chance anyone has got of loans being repaid.

[Adrahil]

16. I read a an article on al-jazeera...

... where they talk about the impeachment process, and how it was designed in such a way to make it nearly impossible to actually execute.

In the end, he had lost the support of most the country, even his own political allies. Faced with that situation, I think the parliament did the right thing and averted the potential for massive bloodshed. If Yanukovich had successfully convinced the army to attack, there would have been hundreds, if not not thousands, killed. Thankfully, he was unable to convince the army to fire on the protesters.

[karynnj]

14. Does that mean that the impeachment vote was not "under the constitution"?

The Parliament did vote to impeach him and to call for new elections. From earlier articles, it was said that the impeachment process was complicated - and the vote seemed anything but complicated. ( compare to the US process). However, it seems that even some of his previous supporters voted to impeach him.

Not to mention, listening to the ENTIRE comments Kerry made to Andrea Mitchell, the comments in this thread miss entirely that he (and some other Obama administration people) are saying very clearly that Ukraine should have strong contacts with BOTH Russia and the west. What they are rejecting was the cold war mindset that countries had to chose one side and reject the other. This is a change that DU should welcome.

[dipsydoodle]

17. Even before the the impeachment vote

the Russian media had pointed out the complications with their constitution and that it was likely to become a protracted process.

Stevenleser posted some details on the subject in his post here last Sundau http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=736181

[karynnj]

21. Thanks, I will look at Steve's post. nt

[Adrahil]

18. As I understand it....

... the process requires a commission that investigates claims and issues a report. The report is then voted on by the parliament. That process would take weeks, if not months. Given how things developed in Kiev, it was not a practical solution. I think the parliament acted within the spirit of the clause, if not the the letter. And it seems to have mostly arrested the bloodshed, at least for now. Here's hoping they form some kind of unity government.

[karynnj]

23. Thanks

That explanation makes sense - and shows why each side has the position on it they do. Agree with your hope that future bloodshed can be avoided by a unity government. It seems that given the split in the country, having ties to both sides - rather than any exclusive alignment really is the best option.

[thereismore]

58. ...and the US is still a British colony, under the same logic. nt

[dipsydoodle]

66. No.

You have merely demonstrated you have no clue as the UK constitution with that remark its nature bearing no resemblance
to the US constitution nor that of most other countries come to that - always been that way.

[MerryBlooms]

15. TPM- Russia Deploys Fighter Jets On Ukraine Border, Reportedly Takes In Ousted President

SIMFEROPOL, Ukraine (AP) — Russia sent fighter jets to patrol the border with Ukraine, reportedly gave shelter to the country's fugitive president and stood by as pro-Russian gunmen stormed offices of a strategic region, deepening the crisis for Ukraine's new government even as it was being formed.

The moves pose an immediate challenge to Ukraine's new authorities as they seek to set up an interim government for the country, whose population is divided in loyalties between Russia and the West. Some 150,000 Russian soldiers carried out military exercises and fighter jets patrolled the border.

A respected Russian news organization reported that President Viktor Yanukovych, who was driven out of Kiev by a three-month protest movement, was staying in a Kremlin sanatorium just outside Moscow.

"I have to ask Russia to ensure my personal safety from extremists," Yanukovych said in a statement carried by Russian news agencies on Thursday. He said he still considers himself president.

Shortly after, the same three Russian news agencies quoted an unnamed Russian official saying that Yanukovych's request for protection "was satisfied on the territory of Russia."

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/russia-fighter-jets-ukraine-border?utm_content=buffer87dad&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[KoKo]

20. It was important they do that. No one wants him dragged through street

by mobs and publicly disposed of. We've seen enough of that in Iraq/Libya.

[MerryBlooms]

22. Oh yes, he definitely needed protective escort.

[The Magistrate]

26. He's Gone, Son....

[KoKo]

59. He's Gone for "Now"...But Not quite Forgotten...methinks....

We are in serious times.

Good Video.. Thanks....

Grateful Dead...and Rainbows (Uh Huh) and Pots 'o Gold Positioned and Jackboot on it...and you are always so clever. I probably don't even get it...but I could take it many ways. 's ...but I took it to my bias and my bias thought it was very cool, for my purposes.
's

[FarCenter]

27. Yanukovych lost the support of the Ukrainian oligarchs -- he's toast.

Yanukovych's Fall: The Power of Ukraine's Billionaires

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024572032

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/how-oligarchs-in-ukraine-prepared-for-the-fall-of-yanukovych-a-955328.html

[arely staircase]

28. the last refuge of scoundrels

Russia.

[HappyMe]

31. Yup.

[SidDithers]

33. +1...nt

Sid

[Pretzel_Warrior]

43. Sweet!

[Tarheel_Dem]

53. +1

[geek tragedy]

29. He's welcome to turn himself into prosecutors and face

accountability for his crimes.

[another_liberal]

32. Yanukovich will hold a press conference tomorrow . . .

RT News has reported that Ukrainian President Yanukovich will hold a press conference tomorrow in the Eastern Ukrainian city of Rostov on Don.

Viktor Yanukovich will hold a news conference in Russia's Rostov-on-Don at 1700 local time (1300 GMT) on Friday, reports Itar-Tass citing sources close to Ukraine's ousted president. The site of the event will be announced later, the agency writes.

Yanukovich vanished over the weekend and his whereabouts have so far been unknown, with rumors claiming that he could have fled to Russia, or that he was still in Crimea. He was reportedly last seen in Crimea. The new Ukrainian authorities – who came to power following months of violent confrontation – put Yanukovich on an international wanted list on suspicion of involvement in mass killings during the riots in Kiev. Dozens of people were killed in clashes between armed radical protesters and security forces.

On February 22, Ukrainian MPs voted to oust Yanukovich and hold a presidential vote on May 25. Ukraine’s parliament, the Verkhovna Rada, held an emergency session and passed a law on the return to the 2004 constitution without the president's approval, saying that the president had removed himself from power. Yanukovich described the situation as a coup d’etat and said he was not going to resign, as he was a “legitimately elected president.”

On February 23, the parliament voted for its speaker, Aleksandr Turchinov, as acting president of Ukraine.

(snip)

Read more at: http://rt.com/news/yanukovich-press-conference-russia-059/

[Coyotl]

34. This is what he is talking about, the Ukrainian Reich:

[another_liberal]

36. "Right Sector" is among the opposition to Yanukovich, they don't support him at all.

I see what you mean.

[Coyotl]

37. Exactly my point, these are the armed thugs who are involved in his ouster.

I'm not saying support X, Y, or Z. I'm just pointing out who the players are because i see a lot of cheering about a democracy falling apart and people shopuld realize who foments this unrest and to what ends.

[another_liberal]

40. Right, I think we agree.

I am against the violent overthrow of any democratic government, but especially when it is by fascists!

[Pretzel_Warrior]

42. Baghdad Bob says the infidels have been defeated

Without ever having taken ONE city in Iraq.

[joeybee12]

46. Another day, another sack of lying shit article from RT...nt

[another_liberal]

47. I would reply to your thoughtful and detailed estimation of my OP . . .

But, golly, I just can't decide which trenchantly erudite argument to begin with.

[joeybee12]

48. Why don't you post some more garbage, like how gays and lesbians are treated

like kings and queens in Russia and how we American gays are over-reacting. The RT has and always will be garbage...I don't need to make an argument or state anything else about the shit you post when you are apparently can't realize it yourself, apologist lackey.

[another_liberal]

49. I have never done anything like that to begin with . . .

So how could I do "more?"

I also have never said American gays were over reacting to the disgraceful way LBGT people are treated in Russia. I did suggest calling for a boycott of the Olympics could be counter productive for LGBT rights in Russia, and that it would also be unfair to our athletes who had trained so hard and deserved a chance to compete.

BTW: My opinion in that respect was shared by many other people, people like, oh I don't know, Rachel Maddow.

[joeybee12]

57. The RT runs tons of stories like what I described...

I didn't mean you personally were saying that.

[another_liberal]

62. It sucks that they do that, and it takes them down a notch in my book . . .

Several notches.

I turn to them for a different perspective on news stories that Western media (with few exceptions) seems to always cover in the same way. I am serious, though, what you just told me is a fucked up thing for them to do. I will never again like them as much as I did before learning it.

[Tarheel_Dem]

54. !!!

[William769]

71. Well unless he's running from the Gays, he's shit out of luck with Russia. nt