Please, if we are going to devolve into the "White Privilege" debate, can I first implore that we

[Cofitachequi]

have the "Class Warfare" discussion first.

Please consider that the real break is between "haves" and "have-nots", and there is nothing more than the "haves" would like is for the "have nots" to be torn between racial lines.

If we want to fight amonst ourselves, we are all bound to suffer, but if we realize that the real argument is the 99% (made up of all races, creeds, sexual orientations and lifestyles) fighting the 1%, we would be strengthened.

[rrneck]

1. Good luck. nt

[geek tragedy]

2. Welcome to DU.

[bravenak]

3. Nope.

We never fully benefit, so we need to talk about this now.

[freshwest]

34. If people refuse to talk about something so obvious as color and racism, how can they be expected to

be open-minded about class?

And it is not a discussion that can be framed by others. It is not 'their' discussion. They've proved they don't want the truth to be heard. Even if such a truth is claimed to be biased by the speaker, who can say they don't have a bias?

Denying that it should be heard is biased in itself. It's time to get this going. Those who 'don't want to hear it' can continue living in the past. They are not changing a thing.

[bravenak]

35. This discussion is needed, good, bad, and ugly.

I'm always up for the discussion, and I'll be ready when they are if they ever are.

[kwassa]

4. I think you are a little late to the show.

The crux of the fight has been "it's class, not race". For several hundred replies.

[nomorenomore08]

37. +1

I'm fairly sure this OP is well-intentioned, but it also seems rather redundant.

[Texasgal]

5. Apparently many folks here

cannot handle a conversation on White Privilege. Good luck!

[randome]

6. How about opinions about white privilege be restricted to those who are not white?

It's always seemed amazing to me that so many non-blacks think they are experts in what it's like to be black.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]

[upaloopa]

7. Yea but by definition you know what it is to be white!

You define white privilege so you must know what it is to be me!
Here is a clew, you don't!

[Squinch]

14. Frankly, as a white person, it's amazing to me that the white people denying white privilege

are so obtuse about our OWN experience. Every time I see someone denying it, I think, "What the hell do you think is going on here? Are you, blind?"

Edited to add: see above.

[bettyellen]

8. Back of the bus, people. NO. We can do both- why can't you?

[Democracyinkind]

9. "We'll get to racism as soon as we've eliminated inequality"

Just another way of saying "shut up, it's my turn first".

Which is the actual problem.

[Squinch]

18. Really, given that we will never eliminate inequality, it is another way of saying, "Shut up and

never bring this up again. We're just not going there, no matter what you say your experience is."

Which is

[gollygee]

10. "No talking about racism until there are no poor white people."

No.

[Cofitachequi]

11. yes.

that is exactly what i said.

[Squinch]

15. No it isn't.

[ScreamingMeemie]

16. So,the poor black people should stop being so uppity and walk on to the back of the bus...

and we'll get to them when we get ours? As a working class single white mother who doesn't have to worry about her son walking down the street, I say....ummmm...nope.

[TheKentuckian]

20. What about us poor and working class minorities? Are we going to eat white acknowledgment of

privilege? Are we all going to get gigs on speaking tours or something?

Am I going to be less of a target for the police?

Will I be able to shop in peace?

Will I get to spend more time chatting and playing at work while someone else gets the job done?

Will it be easier to hail a cab at least?

Talk about whatever you like but that is all it is and is being substituted, I believe at least in some part to avoid and as a reaction to talk about class that impacts minorities even more than the dominant group and as such cannot be blown off to focus on anything. The number one tool of deprivation is poverty and limiting opportunity.

[Starry Messenger]

12. I find it curious that people often only throw "class warfare" into the conversation when racism is

discussed. There are many posts and threads at DU about the 99% and inequality. It's not necessary to downgrade discussions of racism to raise the issue. Devolve, my ass.

[bettyellen]

21. and if you talk about sexism, we hear how good we have it compared to _______________.

And how the equal pay act was singed 50 years ago, blah blah blah.

[Starry Messenger]

23. Correct.

The class warriors like to throw in the Margaret Thatcher Hail Mary pass and wedge class into there too.

[bettyellen]

24. and Beyonce!

[handmade34]

13. No

it seems the "White Privilege" debate needs to be settled

[derby378]

17. If you stay on DU enough, you learn how to multitask

At least that's the way I see it.

[Cofitachequi]

19. To All!!! I give up and apologize for ever making a suggestion.

I was absolutely not suggesting that there is not a disparity.

The strength of the left has always been many divergent sides and experiences recognizing common solutions to injustice and standing up for each other.

The tone of this "discussion" threatens that history.

I will not answer anymore posts, nor read any.

You guys are doing exactly what they hope you will.

[bettyellen]

22. so stop disrespecting "divergent sides", because "they" love that divisiveness too.

[Gravitycollapse]

26. Your mythical "man behind the curtain" of all oppression is obscenely self-serving.

[Gravitycollapse]

25. I hear this argument all the time at white-washed hipster bars in gentrified districts.

It is sourced from the middle and upper class white community who directly benefits from scapegoating their racism in favor of an economic argument that is at face value less controversial and easier to rationalize within the schema of gross cognitive dissonance.

[Democracyinkind]

27. You do have a way with words, don't you? Couldn't agree more.

[BainsBane]

30. That is certainly how it works around here

The thing is, I have trouble believing those people (not saying the OP but rather people regularly hostile to discussions of racism and sexism) care much about class either. I think what they ultimately care about it themselves.

[BainsBane]

28. although you're not reading, I still have a suggestion

Rather than telling people not to talk about race (and gender), how about suggesting a discussion about how class intersects with race? Women and people of color on DU are told several times a day to keep quiet and let their betters decide what is important. Your post is going to be read in that context. Class is indeed important, but to pretend that race and gender are not--or that we should set them aside to talk about what you think is more important, is unrealistic. We can't put aside who we are. The fact is that sexism and racism affect our lives on a daily level. The more interesting and ultimately more productive discussion is about how race, class, and gender intersect.

To have a discussion exclusively about class, you would need to exclude the life experiences of the majority of the country from your discussion. Is that really what you want to do? Perhaps you could challenge yourself to think more comprehensively about the issue rather than condemning those of us who care about our own lives and those of the majority of Americans as playing into the hands of the 1 percent. In insisting people think only about the narrow frame you consider important, you don't leave much space for discussion.

I would also suggest you might think about what you mean when you say class. The one percent vs. the 99% are not classes. Those are catch-all terms that have come into currency in the media to talk about income disparity, but that 99 percent contains within it more than one class.

[Bonobo]

31. For that matter, what is meant by "white"?

When I was a kid, we couldn't join certain "country clubs" because we were Jewish. Some people are whiter than others.

[BainsBane]

32. It is culturally constructed and changes over time and place

The Irish weren't seen as white when they first came to the US but now are. We as Americans know what whiteness means in our current time and place. It's something we are so imbued with that it is almost instinctive.

[Whisp]

29. O right, first we must overthrow controlling powers that have run all of human history...

THEN we are allowed to talk about privilege.

Yeh yeh, sure.

[fishwax]

33. sorry, but raciscm and racial discrimination remains a "real" issue

Also, whenever this perspective is voiced on DU, it seems to be geared towards the notion that mentioning and/or exploring white privilege is playing into the hands of the 1%/economic elite because it sows discord among natural allies in the 99%/working class. It seems to me, though, that the concept of privilege doesn't sow discord or distract from class conflict, so much as does the angry and defensive denial and distortion do.

It's similar to the "racism isn't the problem, talking about racism is the problem" canard.

[Heidi]

36. I'm confident that most of us in the 99 percent can walk and chew gum at the same time. (nt)

[MrScorpio]

38. Wow, this is right out of the White Privilege Bingo Card....

I'm about a hair's breadth away from posting that puppy.

Needless to say, it would be very interesting if I were to do it.