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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsLooks like a lot of people want to hang him now rather than wait for a trial.
Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?
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Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)Links please
nanabugg
(2,198 posts)
CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)
Bicoastal
(12,645 posts)Even the cops agree that the 28-year-old shot the gun and the 17-year-old was unarmed.
In most states, Zimmerman would, at the very least, be out on bail awaiting trial at this point.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Ok in your world we don't need no stinking trial. You've made my case.
Bicoastal
(12,645 posts).99center
(1,237 posts)He say's "be out on bail awaiting trial at this point" and some how you get that he doesn't want a trial 
BeHereNow
(17,162 posts)Please, tell me how that response is even remotely
appropriate to the post...
It doesn't even make sense and is disruptive and offensive in my judgement.
Just an "FYI."
BHN
.99center
(1,237 posts)In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response. His response was "Ok in your world we don't need no stinking trial. You've made my case." in response to
"In most states, Zimmerman would, at the very least, be out on bail awaiting TRIAL AT THIS POINT." so his response would be seen as extraneous and I'd argue that his spell correction was used to get an emotional response since it was a clear mistype.
Booster
(10,021 posts)
EOTE
(13,409 posts)What everyone here is asking for is a trial. Almost anyone in Zimmerman's shoes now would already have been arrested. We're pissed that he hasn't been arrested and the fact that feds needed to step in in order to get a trial. The whole premise of your OP is ridiculously flawed at best and bone-headedly stupid at worst.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Response to L0oniX (Reply #131)
Post removed
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)insults like some little kid in grade school. So tell me ...does it make you feel bigger and better?
Response to L0oniX (Reply #142)
Post removed
BeHereNow
(17,162 posts)Unfortunately, for some reason my explanation did not appear,
so I am putting it forth here-
Upon examining the context of the post alerted on, it is clearly
a "neener-neener" alert. I vote leave it to discourage further
calls for a "Nanny Jury" as someone so aptly described it.
Completely juvenile alert.
Just wanted to tell you, I think you have shown incredible self
restraint in your thread, considering some of the ridiculous responses.
BHN 
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)all the while not even addressing the original question "Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?"
BeHereNow
(17,162 posts)"Disruptive" is the word that comes to my mind.
As in deliberately.
I've lost count of how many responses I think should be alerted on.
Completely juvenile and certainly outside of the CS.
BHN
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)
BeHereNow
(17,162 posts)None of the disruptors have actually responded to your original
observation in any intelligent way what so ever.
Guess the bottom line for me is to learn how many
clearly disruptive posts have been allowed to stand.
What I see is people trying to attack you without
addressing or promoting productive dialogue about your ORIGINAL point.
Just throwing random shit out, meant to provoke arguments
and completely twisting your personal thoughts which, correct me if I am wrong,
were meant to invite discussion and debate, not chaos.
BHN
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)I've gone on to other sites as well and see some of the old DU people on them. I come here for the news mostly. The one time I post it gets mob bombed. Even DU2 is more rational. Most of the discussions about DU on other sites revolve around this same issue ...that and blind political following irregardless of the truth. I hope Skinner does something about it.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Sad sad sad...you are a binary thinker or you just don't want to admit getting pwned in your own thread. Calling MOB is more proof that you have failuresaucse all over you! 
Bluerthanblue
(13,669 posts)proper legal procedure.
If George Zimmerman were subject to the kind of 'law' he chose to impose on Trayvon, he'd be the one who was dead. He was stalking a young man, armed with a weapon, for with no authority to do so. He didn't identify himself, or state any reason for doing what he was doing. He was the perp. in this situation. What did Zimmerman claim Trayvon was doing that was wrong? What crime was he committing while walking home on a rainy afternoon?
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)
liberalhistorian
(20,904 posts)he'd certainly either be in jail or dead right now.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)I wanted to address the problem with the part of the mob that doesn't seem to think a trial is even needed. Of course Zim should have been arrested and I believe he will be thanks to the part of the mob that is calling for just that. The phrase "innocent before proven guilty" some how gets lost. I believe that everyone should get a fair trial. The worst thing would be for an innocent person to be found guilty by a US court of law and executed. The media and some of the mob are making it almost impossible to get an unbiased jury.
.99center
(1,237 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts).99center
(1,237 posts)I'm just confused how we the sheep following this mob mentality get a trial without Zimmerman at the trial.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)You're the one who's defending the status quo and speaking against the ones who consider this to be an outrage. That's more than trollish behavior. It's absolutely disgusting.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)I welcome your disgust.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)Because there is none to be found in my post. If you want to make yourself look a bit less foolish, I'd suggest learning what words mean before attempting to use them in conversation.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)like some little child that calls others names ....some people can't discuss things but prefer to insult because it doesn't take any thinking.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)You're more than welcome to look up the word rather than changing the subject again. Although, with your intellect and ridiculous logical fallacies, I can understand why changing the subject looks so attractive to you.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)All of your responses and insults have not address that question ...and if you look you will see that a DU jury agrees that you can't carry on a decent discussion.
BeHereNow
(17,162 posts)I've sent some alerts and see that previous alerts were sent
and juries voted to let the posts stand.
Maybe people need to review the CS before they
accept jury duty.
BHN
BeHereNow
(17,162 posts)I find your contributions on this thread to be somewhat questionable, as far
as your motives are concerned.
BHN 
.99center
(1,237 posts)I was responding to a reply in the thread, are we not allowed to respond to the comment's? You seem to have this fantasy that the only one allowed to respond to comment's left in this OP is the original starter of the thread. My thought's are that this OP was created to muddy the Zimmerman case and he intended in no way to have a rational discussion, for example he avoids answering to his off topic comments by telling people to respond to the OP, like his comment isn't of any concern any longer. He's not even being coy about trolling, the first comment I responded to was when he accused a poster of not wanting a trial right after the person said he wanted a trial, is that a rational discussion in your eye's? And to question my motives and others while praising the OP make your motives also a bit shady. One more thing, what do you believe calling out poster's and calling people's post garbage adds to a discussion, why not just hit alert if you don't have anything to add? Double standard much?
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)You and the mob here don't seem to care if the US Court system presumes you to be guilty before you are proven innocent. You are either for a fair US court system and fair trial or not. Go ahead and continue to ignore the original question.
.99center
(1,237 posts)Yes, sometimes it depends on your social and/or economic status in most cases. And you'll never have a fair court system when those that are enforcing the law are breaking or not following the law. A fair trial for this case went out the window the day of Trayvons death, right about the time police let him go and started trying to get witness's to change their story's. Who's going to have more bearing in court, the police reports and testimony or the media which the juror's will be told to ignore?
savalez
(3,517 posts)Hence no chance of a trial. People want justice. What's wrong with that?
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)a mob.
jaded_old_cynic
(190 posts)He certainly took it upon himself to be judge, jury, and executioner. Even after he was specifically told to stop the pursuit.
CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)Shooter who GOT OUT OF HIS CAR TO INITIATE THE INCIDENT.
Victim heard asking attacker why attacker was following him.
Attacker's ass needs to be in jail awaiting trial, where he would hopefully be found guilty as he obviously is.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)That's a new one on me. Why not save us some taxpayer $ and skip the trial altogether, since it's just a formality.
We don' need no stinkin' investigation and trial.
Anticipating your possible question, yes I think he's guilty of maybe negligent homicide or something like that. Maybe manslaughter. I don't know the clear distinction of those things in Florida. Do I think he went after the kid to kill him? I haven't seen or heard anything to indicate that. I think a lot of people don't know the legal differences between the different kinds of homicide.
But I hope they don't throw someone in jail because I think he's guilty of a crime. I'm not a jury.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)when it's indicated. We don't simply accept the shooter's statement that he was completely justified, particularly when witnesses say otherwise.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Booster
(10,021 posts)butterfly77
(17,609 posts)my ass! Some of the evidence is missing from the case. blood test,urine samples,etc from zimmerman. Was this fair to Trayvon...
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)"Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?"
butterfly77
(17,609 posts)the right skin color and money. In this case he is not but,most likely will get a jury with people like you who know he is guilty but with say he is innocent.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)The question was "Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?" Did you want to discuss that? If not WTF are you responding for?
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)He needs to be put on trial.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Then, if there's enough evidence, he goes to trial.
THINKING someone is guilty is different from PROVING it. I think there's enough evidence, personally, but I'm not familiar with all the evidence. No one is. A full investigation hasn't been done yet. Which is shameful.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)
girl gone mad
(20,634 posts)Just saying.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)I see folks just want him charged with an apparent crime.
And when found guilty, then hang him.
Enrique
(27,461 posts)this would be a good thread for you to self-delete.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Bicoastal
(12,645 posts)Is that really so hard to grasp? It's not the crime that infuriates me so much as the aftermath.
Control-Z
(15,686 posts)It looks like people want justice. An arrest. Questioning. A trial.
There was someone already hung here. An innocent child.
Edit to add: you might want to take the advise given up thread to self delete your OP. It would be a good choice, imo.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)I have a beef with those who think they know it all without a professional law enforcement investigation.
Unarmed and clearly not a threat. But he's dead so he can't defend himself.
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)There was no "professional law enforcement investigation" until this story gained national attention and the public outrage ensued...and rightly so. What I see here is a part of that effort to make sure a proper investigation is done. Trayvon has been dead for nearly a month. It's time for some goddamn answers AND action on this case.
I've been following the threads on DU regarding this story and I can't think of one DU'er suggesting a hanging occur. If I had seen something like that, I certainly would have alerted...oh wait, you have the fucking word in your OP suggesting we DU'ers are ready to hang someone. I'll call anyone on this type of bullshit and your use of that word at this particular time, is completely inexcusable.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)The facts are he was carrying skittles and some tea and tried to avoid Zimmerman as much as possible. There is ZERO doubt as to his innocence and you're pretty damned idiotic not to see that.
MrBig
(640 posts)That you're basing your knowledge of the facts off of the media, a highly questionable source. Your use of absolutes in your post indicate you are accepting some of the reports as truth and others as false, because both sides have presented "evidence" claiming both that the shooting was cold blooded murder and that the shooting was a justifiable use of self-defense.
Clearly this case has been mangled by the investigators and, based on what has been reported, George Zimmerman deserves to be behind bars awaiting trial.
However, my understanding of the point of this thread is that, none of us really has first hand knowledge of the facts of the case. Other than the 911 calls, all other evidence has been through second or third or fourth hand sources.
Of course had a proper investigation been done at the time, this whole guessing game wouldn't be necessary.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)First is that Zimmerman was pursuing an UNARMED KID because he thought that he looked suspicious.
Second is that Zimmerman confronted this unarmed kid who had done nothing worthy of confrontation.
Third is that Zimmerman killed this unarmed kid after confronting him.
Those are undisputed facts.
The calls for justice are based upon these facts, not by some mysterious liberal media that just love convicting white people. Give me a fucking break.
MrBig
(640 posts)Not by me mind you, but rather Zimmerman himself claims the kid confronted Zimmerman.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/15/2696446_p2/trayvon-martin-case.html
But to say it is undisputed would be wrong.
The point of this isn't to support Zimmerman or to say he doesn't deserve to be behind bars awaiting trial right now. The point is to say that none of us were there. We don't know the facts. We know what has been reported to be the facts. There have been PLENTY of instances where the "facts" reported were completely off base. The Atlanta Olympics bomber comes to mind.
The fact that Zimmerman admits shooting the unarmed kid, and the 911 calls on top of that, lead me to question why an arrest has not been made. That seems to be enough indisputable evidence to lead at least to an arrest.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)All the witnesses who were anywhere near say that Trayvon was screaming and trying not to get killed, but let's believe the fucker who went out searching for someone to kill and somehow managed to find one. Christ. Enough facts are known to say without a doubt that Zimmerman should be behind bars awaiting trial for his murder one charge.
MrBig
(640 posts)And that's the point of this whole thing. There are facts in dispute. Hence, the need for a full investigation to get undeniable evidence that would support Zimmerman's conviction.
My cursory understanding of criminal law is, since Zimmerman admitted to killing Trayvon, the burden would be on Zimmerman to prove that the shooting was justified, which given the evidence I've been made aware of, seems like it would be extremely difficult to prove.
I do agree with your last sentence.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)That is what people here are demanding and it's a damned good thing that they are. That is why the OP is so ridiculous.
MrBig
(640 posts)I don't know Florida's murder statute but my personal belief is that Mr. Zimmerman should at least be charged with the highest degree of murder, though I understand that it will probably depend on what can be proven.
I think the OP completely exaggerated an attempt to discuss the idea that people are coming to their own conclusions based on media reports and are using those reports to determine what the facts are, when some of the facts are still in dispute (hence the need for a more thorough investigation). None of us were there that night. All we can base our opinions on are what we believe to be the facts. Personally, I don't like using eyewitness testimony. Given what Zimmerman has said and the 911 calls, I tend to believe there is enough to try him for murder.
Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)is that Zimmerman was pursuing an UNARMED KID that he thought looked suspicious because he was BLACK. Thought I would clarify that first point. The rest is spot on.
hlthe2b
(113,950 posts)Because many think the local LE should likewise be investigated and to have no influence on the broader investigation? Because many of us are doubting the state AG (and now the special AG's) ability to launch an unbiased investigation after all the back and forth? Because we think this should be a Federal investigation that includes civil rights violations and may well need to include investigation for possible "hate crime" ?
Really? I think that sounds like a demand for DUE PROCESS, myself.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)EOTE
(13,409 posts)And people expressing their own opinions about his guilt or innocence has NOTHING to do with the standard of proof and presumption of innocence, you are aware that's a legal term, right? We can say whatever the hell we want about Zimmerman and that does NOTHING to negate his presumption of innocence. In fact, Zimmerman was basically declared innocent from the get go. I've never seen such ignorance on a subject before.
Bluerthanblue
(13,669 posts)I'd like to hear you express some outrage at how George Zimmerman chose to find Trayvon Martin guilty without allowing HIM a trial.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)I think you already answered that so what is the point of going off on other things in this thread.
Solomon
(12,644 posts)
bluestate10
(10,942 posts)If it is the Trayvon Martin situation, all people are asking is that a thorough investigation of the circumstances of Martin's death be done. You can stick your head back in it's resting place.
spanone
(141,602 posts)haven't seen anyone advocating a hanging
Jumping John
(930 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)"ask that of G Zimmerman as far as the value of Mr Martin's innocence"
EOTE
(13,409 posts)I'm pretty sure you know that, though, don't you? Either you're being obtuse, or you're even less bright than I imagined.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)I asked the question: Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore? ...and that question was in relation to the title. Sure you are free to be part of the mob and find him guilty without a trial. I hope you are never called up for jury service.
Talk about "poor reading skills".
niyad
(132,438 posts)everything I have seen indicates that people want due process--you know, investigation, arrest, etc.
and, since zimmerman is claiming self-defense, he has admitted killing an unarmed child (and before you kvetch, legally, a 17 year old is a CHILD)
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)niyad
(132,438 posts)nice try, but the posters on this board are not that oblivious.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)If anything the pile on here is every bit of evidence of the mob mentality.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)Most people here are nowhere near as stupid as you'd like them to be. You'd have to be ungodly dumb to fall for any of your arguments.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)
MattBaggins
(7,948 posts).99center
(1,237 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)EOTE
(13,409 posts)When people called you out on that and you could find ZERO evidence of any such statement, you then try to change the argument to that people are now trying to use this tragedy as an anti-gun statement. That is dumb. You are wrong on all counts.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Is there some valid point you are trying to make ...other than your grade school insults?
TheWraith
(24,331 posts)Case in point, I and others here took a lot of heat from taking that position on the Duke "rape" case, only to be completely vindicated when it fell apart.
That said, there is a point when it becomes difficult to suspend your disbelief. Given that this is a discussion forum and not a courtroom, I'm not going to blame anyone who does feel that way, at least right now.
USArmyParatrooper
(1,827 posts)What we want is an arrest and a trial.
- Zimmerman pursued HIM.
- It was a small, skinny kid "verses" (if you can call it that) a 250 pound man with a 9 mil.
- In one of the 911 tapes you hear the kid screaming for his life.
If that doesn't scream probable cause I don't know what does.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)I believe Zim should have been arrested.
Booster
(10,021 posts)Apparently you don't get it. Mob rules!
shadowrider
(4,941 posts)Martin was 6'3" and played football. He's far from the "small, skinny kid" that's being reported.
FWIW, Zimmerman should have been arrested for his actions. Whether or not he's found guilty, and for what specific crime, is left to a courthouse jury who will have access to far more facts than we have here.
I'm reserving judgment until those facts are in. I'm not a member of the "Hang him then give him a fair trial" bunch.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)Just because he's tall doesn't mean that he'd have the means to defend himself against someone more than 100 lbs heavier and with a gun. Nobody is suggesting that Zimmerman be hanged, that's a strawman and YOU KNOW IT. They're suggesting that he be arrested, as he sure as hell should have been and as you believe as well. Try injecting a little honesty into your arguments.
shadowrider
(4,941 posts)I never suggested he had the means to defend himself. If anything, Zimmerman should be in jail and why he isn't is a question for Sanford P.D.
All I simply pointed out is he was a larger individual than the media is portraying. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)If you have information suggesting otherwise, provide it.
pokerfan
(27,677 posts)which is still a little on the skinny side with average 6 foot males falling between 160 to 195 lbs and certainly not the 6-4, 240 full-back the Freepers have inflated the numbers to.
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin%20Lakes%20Shooting%20Initial%20Report.pdf
Zanzoobar
(894 posts)Hang him.
Lost-in-FL
(7,093 posts)I don't know, maybe it would be a good idea to at least detain this guy and find out what really happen?
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Lost-in-FL
(7,093 posts)when one's kid is not the one getting shot for carrying skittles by a 'chicken-little-mall-cop' idiot that needed not to have a gun permit to begin with.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Tell me this though ...if this does go to trial where could that trial be with a jury that is unbiased? Thanks to the mob mentality and media presumption of guilt they will have a hard time finding an unbiased jury.
Lost-in-FL
(7,093 posts)...human made court system. Lots of people get exasperated and it is how this mob mentality you speak about commences.
However, this is the first time in my life where I have seen the police letting go of a person carrying a warm gun, and with blood in his clothing with a corpse that is still warm... based solely on the statement given by the person calling 911 and whom ignored when he was told to leave the person alone, w/o considering witnesses (there are 3), and a 911 call that was made.
Do you think the police made a fair/impartial assessment of this event?
Have you heard of something like this before?
Do you think that this case would be brought through a fair investigation have the media/networking not been involved?
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)...but to give you my opinion and or answers to your questions...
1 The police should have arrested him and time spent to discover evidence that could move it to a trial.
2 I have not heard of this happening before. My CWP instructor said that I can expect to be arrested for at least 24 hours if I use my gun for self defense. I would expect the same for anyone else.
3 "If" Zim were to have been arrested before all the media and mob got involved I believe that if the case were to go to trial he may have a fair trial. As it is now the trial would have to be moved to some other locale and to find a jury that has not been tainted by the media would be very hard to do IMO.
.99center
(1,237 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Dear Jury: I am attacking the message, not the messenger.
Nobody is calling for anyone to hang anyone. The only thing resembling a lynching was what the vigilante sociopath Zimmerman did to the unfortunate Martin.
We would like Zimmerman to be arrested and charged with murder, and we would like these stupid sociopath enabling ALEC sponsored Stand Your Ground laws to be repealed.
Gun enthusiast commits vigilante murder of black kid. Opponents of infantile cowboy culture gun infatuation are in an uproar about said murder, so accuse opponents of wanting to lynch the murderer. Nice play. Classic.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)going on that is assigning guilt before a trial. Of course Zim should have been arrested.
unapatriciated
(5,390 posts)Because there was not even an investigation many are outraged and rightly so.
The only reason the authorities are even looking into it now is because of the public outcry.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)I think he was wrong as well but that is only my opinion. I would not find him guilty because of my own judgment or opinion. If anyone is guilty to start with it is the police for not arresting him and investigating the situation.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)You seem to think that people expressing their opinions on the internet will prevent Zimmerman from receiving a fair trial. It's OK though, I'm trying to teach my 6 year old daughter about our legal system, she's having trouble too.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)EOTE
(13,409 posts)No sweat, that's a toughie!
And yes, I've actually discussed with her changes of venue. And what's kind of hilarious as to you bringing that up is that if anyone would want a change of venue here, it's the defense as the people of Sanford are far more inclined to protect Zimmerman than the country in general.
Of course, none of what you said, irrelevant to the point as it is, has anything to do with your original OP. Which remains unmitigated bullshit.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)BTW have you answered the question that I started with? "Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?" I guess your answer is no.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)At the moment the killer is totally free and clear... no charges, no trial, nothing.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)The question was "Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?" Most people in here are part of a mob that may have esteem issues and so has to devolve into insulting. Here's a question related to the original question: What if our court system had no presumption of innocence?
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Most people simply want the guy to be charged with something so an investigation can proceed and eventually a trial. When someone is killed and the killer and weapon are identified usually there is an investigation and a trial.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Enrique
(27,461 posts)the whole controversy is that he is NOT being placed on trial.
But in your ignorance you say that people DON'T want him to be put on trial.
Read a news story once in a while.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Maybe you are just ignorant of it.
johnnie
(23,616 posts)Just read the posts on your thread.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)
guitar man
(15,996 posts)I want him arrested and charged, then sent to trial. First we need an arrest, it's been almost a month and he's still roaming free.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)This is what happens when the police fail to do their job.
When they arrest him and put him in jail to await trial, people will calm down.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)How the f*** is there going to be a trial to determine guilt when the shooter is not under arrest and in jail???
And there is no question that Zimmerman was the aggressor the whole time and also that it was a racial hate crime!
These FACTS are all on tape for the entire world to hear!
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)
bluestateguy
(44,173 posts)And I would not have it any other way.
Having said that. That does not mean the accused shall be free from criticism or that I do not enjoy the right to have an opinion about his guilt or innocence.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Don't you?
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Enrique
(27,461 posts)your comment about "waiting for a trial" makes it clear that you thought Zimmerman was in jail waiting for a trial. oops. apology time.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Enrique
(27,461 posts)apology accepted.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)EOTE
(13,409 posts)Of course you thought he was in jail. If you didn't, then you were damned stupid to go spouting off about people being so upset and wanting to hang him if they just wanted him arrested. It's a damned good thing that most people here are able to think things through unlike yourself.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)made every effort to insult me and tried to quash any real discussion here. You aren't helping DU with your childish insults. I find that most people defer to insults when they can't intelligently discuss the subject or in this case a question they disagree with.
BeHereNow
(17,162 posts)You have repeatedly twisted the purpose of the original
OP and insulted the author with some of the most disgusting
insults I have seen on DU in a LONG time.
You have provided NO meaningful or productive discussion, just a
tirade of projections and insults.
I can't believe more of your posts have not been hidden.
If I were you, I would be ashamed to think that the garage
you have posted on this thread is public.
BHN
I think you need to read the CS for DU before you continue to post.
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)Not that five minute farce they called an investigation after Trayvon was gunned down.
Either the evidence will be enough for them to file charges or it won't. At the very least, there will be a civil suit against the man.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)My cwp instructor told us to expect to be arrested and spend a night in jail if we had to use a gun for defense in a life threatening situation.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)i assume you have signed the petition demanding such., since you want a trial and all.
backscatter712
(26,357 posts)The Sanford police wanted to simply pat Zimmerman on the back for killing an n***** standing his ground, and didn't feel like giving him anything resembling justice at all.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Isn't that a bit over dramatic? Since when can you or anyone know what someone else is thinking or thought? I am for an arrest which is usually the norm ....and trial if the evidence calls for it.
backscatter712
(26,357 posts)I'm sorry, but something smells. The Sanford police performed next to no investigation of the shooting at all, they just handed his gun back to him (which elsewhere in the country NEVER happens - even if it's an obvious self-defense shooting, the cops are gonna take your gun - it's evidence.)
If you ask me, I think the Sanford police were covering for Zimmerman.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)If the mob is all about Zim not being at least arrested so as to see if there is enough evidence to go to trial then I am fine with that. What I object to is people who decide someone is guilty without a trial.
backscatter712
(26,357 posts)My gripe is that it seems like the Sanford police didn't even try to give due process, but had decided to let this killing slide, possibly because of racist reasons.
It took a huge media shitstorm, followed by state and federal law enforcement stepping in, for Trayvon's killing to get the investigation it deserved.
unionworks
(3,574 posts)That's what Zimmerman said on the phone to the cops before he grabbed his gun, ran Martin down and singlehandedly lynched him. Thought you got away with it, didn't you, Zimmerman? Shows just how wrong a murderous bigot really is....
liberalhistorian
(20,904 posts)that everyone, no matter who it is or what they're accused of, deserves a fully fair trial which they're entitled to under the constitution. And that includes George Zimmerman.
The problem is that he actually has to be arrested and charged first for there to even be a trial, and that doesn't appear likely anytime soon. Then the fact that the dipshit incompetent racist indifferent disinterested police completely and totally botched what little "investigation" they did and the evidence at the scene makes a trial, much less a conviction, all the more difficult. Throw in the state's "murder with impunity"---ooopsie, I mean the "stand your ground" law may very well be invoked here and you have even more of a problem with any trial and conviction. Of course, with the police dept. protecting and defending him and acting as his defense counsel no matter what info comes out, the chances of his facing any legal trial at all seem pretty remote. It is very obvious that they are doing so in an attempt to cover their asses for their botched investigation, and are attempting to blame the victim (skittles bags are such dangerous weapons, you see, far more so than guns).
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Maybe I am wrong but I know it used to be that you have to retreat as far back as possible in your own home before using deadly force. I don't know that the SYG law was intended to be applicable out in public. Certainly running from an armed robber at an ATM might get you shot so you might want to SYG and shoot them.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)EOTE
(13,409 posts)Complaining that people far more informed on this issue (and far, far less ignorant) are demanding justice. You know extremely little about this, in fact, just about everything you purport to know is wrong. But it's really not all that unusual to see those screaming the loudest being the most clueless about something. It's just that your arrogance combined with your ignorance is truly something astounding to behold.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)so what does that make you?
EOTE
(13,409 posts)is the same thing as calling for someone to be hung. You'll just have to accept the fact that this level of conversation is well above you. Your logical ability is incredibly lacking and nearly everyone sees it. You're incredible with projection as well, when you realized that you know nothing about this case, you try to change the subject to gun control. Then when others chime in, you accuse THEM of derailing the conversation. Truly, children are typically more honest and intelligent in their debates.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Since you haven't yet noticed yet the original question was "Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?"
barbtries
(31,307 posts)
CatWoman
(80,288 posts)any other questions?
Hippo_Tron
(25,453 posts)
2ndAmForComputers
(3,527 posts)He's so guilty it isn't even funny. That's a fact, I have the right to state that fact, I will keep on stating that fact and whoever tells me I shouldn't state that fact can take a long walk off a short pier.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)to me saying what I want. As far as facts go I will accept what a court of law determines the facts are.
RZM
(8,556 posts)It's about the 24-hour news cycle and political message board culture.
DU had decided that it's going to talk about Trayvon 24-7 for a while. That's fine and it's natural. It's pretty much par for the course now. This board gets ahold of a topic and shakes it until nothing else can come out of it, much as MSM outlets do, because like them, we have 24 hours a day to fill.
When you're talking about something nonstop, eventually you run out of things to say. Just look at the cable news pundits and the Republican primaries. They are pretty much done with the analysis and this even comes out into the open sometimes when they are forced to talk about it for hours on end.
Most of DU thinks Zimmerman is guilty of a crime and should be charged. With the absence of new evidence but 24 hours a day to fill, what happens is that people end up saying 'he's guilty' over and over and over. And when that happens, you do get kind of a mob effect, or at least something that looks like a mob. But it's less insidious than it seems. Because in the end, this isn't real life, it's the internet. Nobody here will have any bearing on what actually happens.
When people decide that others are guilty before a trial it can become a dangerous situation. It wouldn't be the first time that an accused person gets shot before a trial. On the other side for that matter we know that innocent people are executed after being tried and sentenced in a court of law.
unionworks
(3,574 posts)...if Martin were a white kid with no problem ever with the law shot by a black man, you'd see a mob, as you call those legallly and peacefully assembling to demand justice. Spare us the bullshit.
Lilyeye
(1,417 posts)MrBig
(640 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)unionworks
(3,574 posts)Zimmerman called the copsit was about "suspicious black people" who "always get away with it". You don't have to be white to be a bigot.
I agree that Traymon's skin color is the primary reason Zimmerman did what he did. His actions were bigoted to say the least. I think some people, in discussing this topic, are getting carried away and making this into a larger black vs. white discussion when, to put it simply, this is yet another case of racism against a young black man regardless of the skin color of the perpetrator.
I think this issue is being made into a larger black vs. white issue that isn't necessarily present here. I do believe that race is an issue in this case and the actions of Zimmerman reflect discrimination against young black men.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)discuss and or answer the original question: "Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?"
unionworks
(3,574 posts)99% of the flack on this thread, not me, pal. I repeat - the thousands of people legally and peacefully assembling to demand justice are not a "mob", as you call them, nor are the people on D.U. doing the same. Most are calling for a trial and a change of a horrible law. If that bursts your "I am the masked avenger with a six shooter" fantasies, SO MUCH THE BETTER! I believe in the right to own and carry a gun legally. I also believe the law as it was requiring taking any available retreat before resorting to violence in self defence was the right way to go. Removing that requirement caused this tragedy. So now it's going to get fixed.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)The question was "Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?"
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)Many DUers do want to see him get charged and arrested, but that is very different than hung without a trial.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)I want to see him arrested and the evidence looked at and then a trial if the evidence calls for it. The original question which most seems to have missed was "Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?" I was only observing the mob mentality going on concerning his presumed guilt. What scares me more is the possibility that someone innocent can be found guilty and executed.
Bluerthanblue
(13,669 posts)that has already happened to a young man by the name of Trayvon Martin.
That reality, for some reason doesn't seem to disturb you much at all.
Why is that?
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Bluerthanblue
(13,669 posts)have a look in the mirror.
A man is dead. can't get much more disturbing than that. What crime was he convicted of to cause the death sentance he recieved?
You don't seem to care much about Trayvon Martin. Why is that?
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)The question was "Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?" "You don't seem to care much about Trayvon Martin. Why is that?" That is not the issue however you may want it to be. I asked a question and you seemingly only want to reframe and change the discussion and accuse me of bull shit. Are you a DU member who wants to discuss things cause it sure doesn't look like it to me. I thought this was a discussion/news board not a play ground for the low esteemed insult party.
Bluerthanblue
(13,669 posts)but your replies don't demonstrate that. Whenever anyone puts your perspective to the test, you cry "reframe" and simply repeat the same tired question over again.
Yes, the vast majority of responders have said we want justice to be meeted out not by the media, or by a vigilante, but by our justice system- which would require that George Zimmerman be arrested, and would likely include a trial for his participation in the untimely death of a 17yr old named Trayvon Martin. The fact that he was not treated the way one would normally treat a person responsible for the death of another, is very troubling, but does NOT mean that Mr. Zimmerman should be excecuted without the benefit of a fair trial. Despite the fact that he chose not to allow the person he shot to have that same right.
You seem to be playing word games in some kind of quest to do what? As for insults, you are pretty adept at throwing a few of them around yourself- if you don't like them, you shouldn't be throwing them around either. What news or discussion are YOU contributing on this thread- can you point out some on this thread that actually addresses the issue of innocence until proven guilty which isn't narrowly defined by your perspective that it only seems to apply where YOU deem it should? What about Trayvons innocence? Why is that NOT germaine to this discussion???
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)You don't get it or you can't read. Since you don't want to discuss issues revolving around "innocent before proven guilty" you are not worth responding to anymore.
Bluerthanblue
(13,669 posts)quite well thank you. You obviously aren't getting YOUR point across as evidenced by all the replies in which you claim people "just don't get it".
Sorry that you have chosen to refuse to try and make your point clearly enough for others to 'get it'.
Reframe this any way that makes you happy.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)I don't think that's too much to ask, that the man who shot an unarmed 17 year old be compelled to defend him actions in a court of law rather than be praised and defended by the police in the community where the crime occurred.
Before there can be justice, there has to be an arrest. The tape alone is grounds for an arrest warrant.
Lilyeye
(1,417 posts)Which equals to an arrest and a conviction if it comes to that. After-all, Zimmerman was going to be walking free until the public found out about the story and made their voices heard.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)No one wants to hang him. We want him arrested and we want a trial.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)"Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?"
Bluerthanblue
(13,669 posts)of "a lot of people".....
who are you to speak for others?
Speak for yourself.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)subjects are discussed ...for some it is a snipe and insult party. Did you have an answer for the original question?
Bluerthanblue
(13,669 posts)What kind of discussion are you trying to inspire by your question? You state your opinon of others- that they have chosen to condemn someone without benefit of a trial.
Did George Zimmerman not do that, and do FAR more than that by executing the person whom HE found 'not innocent'?
Are you asking HIM this quesion? or are you seeking to defend what he did?
If you want to avoid snipe- and insult, it's good not to engage in it yourself in my experience.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)guilty before proven innocent.
Bluerthanblue
(13,669 posts)He shot and killed him. That is the one indisputable fact that exists. A young man is dead. He is dead because George Zimmerman took it upon himself to carry a deadly weapon and to confront a young black male who he percieved to be 'suspicious' based on what? Have you heard the 911 tapes?
Mr. Zimmerman is the one who chose to decide that this young man wasn't innocent, because of what he looked like. Because he was walking casually in the rain, carrying an icetea and wearing a hoodie. He didn't NEED to do anything more than what he'd done, as a 'neighborhood' watch member. He'd called the police, they were responding. He had no reason/responsibility/ or authority to do anything except wait for the police to arrive. But this man made a clear choice to act on his own. And his decision resulted in a young man being shot to death. With a weapon owned by George Zimmerman. Where is your outrage for Trayvon's innocence? You seem to be willing to defend the man who admitted to killing an unarmed youth, and claiming that he is being unfairly treated- what about how Trayvon? He won't have the luxury of a trial, because of the actions of Zimmerman.
Zimmerman should not have walked away from this situation without a complete and thorough investigation. He should have been subjected to blood alcohol/drug tests and his background should have been looked into. That isn't too much to ask for when someone shoots and kills another person. Is it?
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?
mmonk
(52,589 posts)Response to L0oniX (Original post)
LanternWaste This message was self-deleted by its author.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I think you are confusing legal application of indictments, trials and sentencing with mere popular sentiment. You see, popular sentiment does not, and cannot condemn a man to guilt or innocence-- only a court of law may do that. Popular sentiment however, is simply the many different opinions of many different people-- which have no legal standing.
mfcorey1
(11,134 posts)was the case? There are so many levels on which Zimmerman violated the law until it is difficult to equate innocent with his name.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)The question is about anyone getting a fair trial in that there is supposed to be a presumption of innocence before being found guilty. If you want to discuss that I'm ok with that. The op was never about anything else however much you and many others want to not discuss that and instead go off on other rants and snipe and insults ....I suppose they will be happy when DU3 has no discussions anymore and is devolved into reframing, snipe and insults.
barbtries
(31,307 posts)he needs to be accused and to stand trial. what would you like to see happen? assume his innocence and let him get away with murder? there is a dead child in this case, it's not like there is no probable cause to arrest the man.
really, what would you like to see happen here?
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)"Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?"
Wind Dancer
(3,618 posts)We want him to be arrested!
Iggo
(49,927 posts)trumad
(41,692 posts)Been reading most of you replies throughout this thread...
And you're nothing more than an agitator with his fingers in his ears saying blah---blah---blah.
Silly silly boy.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)They see Zimmerman as a huge problem for them.
WI_DEM
(33,497 posts)what we want is justice and it seems that given the circumstances he should have been arrested by now and then he could stand in a court of law and try and prove his innocence. People have a right to express there feelings about the man not even being arrested for shooting an unarmed kid.
PotatoChip
(3,186 posts)and his defenders, who apparently believe that it is ok to act upon suspicion alone.
We want to see GZ arrested and the defense of his actions put under the scrutiny of the justice system.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)How about this ...what if there were no presumption of innocence in a US court?
Bluerthanblue
(13,669 posts)something he CHOSE to deprive Trayvon Martin. Whats more, he appointed himself, judge, jury and executioner.
Did Mr. Zimmerman even consider that Trayvon might be innocent? Not from the facts. Not from any part of the facts.
The only thing I hear lots of people calling for is an arrest and trial. Do you have a problem with that?
elana i am
(814 posts)zimmerman had the gun and treyvon is dead. zimmerman was harassing and following treyvon, not the other way around. zimmerman is a murderer who is trying to worm his way out on a legal (but reprehensible) technicality.
end of story.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)I guess you have found him guilty without a trial.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)of any kind.
How much more "innocent until proven guilty" does one get?
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)That's a hard thing to do. If Zim provoked a confrontation and then had fear for his life he would be found guilty of some charge. He clearly should have been arrested so as to discover any evidence that would bring the matter to trial. What is the point of even having the statement "innocent until proven guilty" if it isn't the reality. IMO the mob doesn't care about that and would rather carry out an execution ...like some despot 3rd world country. The part of the mob that I am with is the part that is calling for at least an arrest.
See ...I have tried to have a reasonable discussion over the question I asked and most respondents haven't gone that route.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)You correctly note that ... "He clearly should have been arrested so as to discover any evidence that would bring the matter to trial."
You seem to concerned about "the mob" ... the "mob" is pissed off because the police did not do what you agree they should have done.
He was not arrested. There was no investigation. They even let him take the gun used in the killing.
I would hazard a guess that an actual police officer who discharges their weapon receives more scrutiny.
Its clear that the local police screwed this up, but give the remaining evidence, that evidence that everyone agree to, this is probably a form of negligent or reckless homicide.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)The question was "Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?". How about this ...what do you think our court system would be like if there were no presumed innocence? Should we abandon that premise and go for the guilty until proven innocent? See ...people could have a discussion here but the "mob" has taken over. Most miss the question and go on with whatever they want to attack with. DU3 is becoming a play ground for the low esteemed insult mob.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)gun used to kill a teen, is innocent.
Do you miss that part of all this?
The Judicial System usually does not get to adjudicate the question of guilt or innocence if the police don't ARREST anyone.
Did you miss that part??
The "mob" you whine about has not "taken over" ... if they had, Zimmerman would already be executed.
The scary "mob" you whine about is demanding that the ADJUDICATION you refer to (the determination of guilt or innocence) actually takes place.
The Florida police were NOT going to allow such an adjudication. The scary "mob" you whine about is DEMANDING that such an adjudication take place.
I'm not sure which part of this you fail to understand.
Or is your point that DU3 members are WRONG for wanting a full accounting, an actual adjudication????
Is that your position?
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)with a presumption of guilt before proven innocent? The DU mob has done everything they can to not discuss that. Do you expect a jury to be unbiased when they've been exposed to media hearsay? It is the function of the US court system to determine innocence or guilt ...not the mob or the media and not even the police. Of course Zim should have been arrested but that is not what my original question is about. The mob mentality in this thread has made a point concerning my statement in the title.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)And neither is the media for that matter.
The US judicial system is REQUIRED to maintain an "innocent until proven guilty" stance.
DU and the Media are NOT REQUIRED to maintain that stance.
For example ... do YOU think OJ was Guilty? Yes or no?
Our Judicial system decided that it was not proven that he was guilty, but that does NOT stop me or you, or DU, or the "media" from say that we think he was guilty of murder.
See the difference yet?
Initech
(108,772 posts)But I think that's a long shot. Again I say fuck the NRA - they're as much to blame for these laws as anybody. 
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)before they can use deadly force, but that is another issue. The original question was "Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?"
pokerfan
(27,677 posts)You've mixed up castle doctrine with this SYG law.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)This statement: "The intent of the SYG law is so that a home owner does not have to be backed into a corner..." indicates a conflation of Castle Doctrine and the Stand Your Ground laws. The SYG laws don't have anything to do with defending one's home. Recommend you take a break from trolling and do some reading.
As far as presumption of innocence, Of course! Zimmerman hasn't been arrested or charged with anything. How much more presumption of innocence do you need?
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Apparently you wouldn't mind having everyone including the media having a part in tainting a jury.
pokerfan
(27,677 posts)You have a bizarre way of framing the discussion.
Boring troll is boring.
Bruce Wayne
(692 posts)Initech
(108,772 posts)Bluerthanblue
(13,669 posts)
renate
(13,776 posts) butterfly77
(17,609 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)That's because I'm anti-DP. Nonetheless, this is why I'm happy to live in a nation of laws. I can feel secure in blasting the racist POS killer, because I know he'll get a reasonably fair trial if he's indicted, irrespective of me personally wanting to do the man harm. So you see, we can all discuss George Zimmerman as much as we'd like without the need to register and start a site called PostConvictionUnderground.com.
yardwork
(69,364 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)joeybee12
(56,177 posts)BeHereNow
(17,162 posts)Let's completely NOT have a productive discussion and debate when
a member offers up a personal thought or possible topic for
dialogue.
Has everyone on DU lost their minds?
I could conclude so, given some of the responses on this thread.
BHN
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)People see a crime committed...they want it prosecuted, which is different than wanting him hung withuot a trial...ncie try, though.
BeHereNow
(17,162 posts)I see the question as a philosophical one.
A question that in my world merits discussion, not just
as it relates to this case, but in general- on many levels
of society and how it evolves.
I find it productive and I would like to see a thoughtful
discussion on it.
If you do not, then why not hide it and allow others
to HAVE a discussion without attacking the OP?
BHN
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)BeHereNow
(17,162 posts)If you don't mind.
What I see is a mob mentality that I find disgusting.
Please explain what it is you "see through."
BHN
BeHereNow
(17,162 posts)I will ask again.
What exactly is "it" you "see through?"
I'll tell you what I "see through..."
That your reply is just more of the same garbage on this thread.
Either back your insinuation up with what you mean to say or
be quiet.
BHN
Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)Yet you have the nerve to ask if everyone on DU has lost their minds. Look in the mirror.
BeHereNow
(17,162 posts)99% of them are pure projection and disruption.
Very few address the PHILOSOPHICAL nature of the query of the OP.
Don't know how long you've been around DU, but there WAS
a time when a thoughtful conversation might have emerged
from the OP.
This thread does NOT reflect the CS of any community I recognize as DU.
It is a cesspool of ignorance and spite directed at the OP-
If I am the only one who finds that behavior disgusting, so be it.
I think it speaks volumes about the current participants of the board
and me.
I am proud of my position and ashamed for some of the posters
on this thread.
I will not let DU turn into a gutter of sludge as long as I participate.
When I see UGLY, I will call it- every time.
If I am alone in my wanting the board to reflect intelligent
and respectful discussion, I am comfortable with that.
BHN
Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)You want the board to reflect intelligent and respectful discussion yet you call this thread a cesspool of ignorance. That's rich.
BeHereNow
(17,162 posts)Please show me examples of how I am wrong, rather
than trying to deflect my observations back on me.
That technique is so very DU 2004.
Are you proud of what this thread reflects about the community?
I am not.
And I will not dignify it with any resemblance to intelligent and respectful
discussion.
It IS full of ignorance and hate.
And I for one, will not condone that behavior on DU.
If you feel the need to be swept along with the "mob"
then you are not thinking clearly about what I am saying-
You are just going along with the tide of muddy water.
BHN
BeHereNow
(17,162 posts)Please, try and defend some of the hateful and
personal attacks on this thread and then tell
me who has "lost their mind."
I know it's not me.
I know what I am seeing on this thread and it is
the WORST of DU.
It is embarrassing to watch.
BHN
Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)I agree that this thread is the worst of DU. But that has more to do with you and the OP then anyone else.
BeHereNow
(17,162 posts)That I and the OP are the worst of DU?
Exactly WHICH of my responses are embarrassing to you?
The ones where I point out the sheer UGLINESS of some of the posts here?
Boy, do you have you priorities messed up for the future of DU.
Again- SHOW me my posts that you consider the worst of DU?
BHN
BeHereNow
(17,162 posts)You are simply joining the Hate Fest and should be ashamed of yourself for it.
Again, I want you to share with me, and the rest of DU, my posts
on this thread that represent the "worst of DU."
Go ahead. DU it.
BHN
Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)All of them. Including this one I'm replying to.
BeHereNow
(17,162 posts)If I am EVER to take you seriously again, be specific please.
Otherwise you just look silly.
Trust me on that.
PLENTY of DUers who have known me for years are reading, so
I think you'd better back up your accusations about me.
BHN
Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)Curious, wouldn't you say?
BeHereNow
(17,162 posts)Fact is, DU is a BIG place, and I'm sure not many of my
pals have seen your accusations yet.
I'll make sure they do.
Your concern about my lack of friends on DU has been noted.
BHN
Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)You sound the horn, but no one comes to back up the tripe you've written in this thread.
BeHereNow
(17,162 posts)Patience friend, patience.
BHN
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)You like most here never bothered to even see the question after the title which was a statement not a question.
I won't announce that I charge you with starting a post that is expressly designed to stir people up, insult their intelligence, and then claim you are a person who believes in freedom of speech.
See, I have freedom of speech. That means I speak, and I'm not immune to the consequences of my speech. I am innocent until proven guilty. That doesn't preclude people looking at the facts of my involvement and speculating on it.
If I threw my mind out of the window, I would lose the ability to discern, evaluate, decide and use my judgment.
I'm not willing to do that. It's not American to decide to be intellectually dysfunctional just because some smart ass thinks he's calling thinking people out because they exercise their higher brain functions.
That goes against everything that prosperity is about.
just1voice
(1,362 posts)There are way too many war criminals and white collar criminals for that to even be close to true.
Rex
(65,616 posts)In CAPS! Invader Zim has to be arrested first, duh. 
Or did I miss the cops arresting Zim? Oh yeah...no I didn't.
So why would people want to hang him if he is not even charged with a crime yet? Doesn't that come first? Arrest, then trial?
Your OP is so epic fail that it needed CAPS!
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)"Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?" Did you miss that or were you rapped up in the mob mentality?
Rex
(65,616 posts)is very sad imo.
The Midway Rebel
(2,191 posts)Sucessful troll was sucessful.
BeHereNow
(17,162 posts)If so- please back it up with evidence for your statement.
I know there are disrupters on this thread, but the OP is not one of them.
BHN
Response to BeHereNow (Reply #254)
Post removed
BeHereNow
(17,162 posts)Sure sounds that way.
Just curious, given your long and extensive involvement in the DU
community, are you SURE that is what you want to imply about ME?
Because I am pretty certain there are people here who have known me
for years who would object to your insinuations thus far...
Keep going... I will gladly continue to give you all the rope you want.
BHN
Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)BeHereNow
(17,162 posts)Got it.
You are not to be taken seriously; ever.
Can't wait for your further ridiculous contributions to DU.
Welcome...
BHN
Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)Scroll up, it's all there. 
William769
(59,147 posts)Check out her profile page. I have seen "BeHereNow" posts for years. I find her to me a good upstanding DU member.
Just thought I would give you my two cents.
P.S. Please feel free to check out my profile page also.
Have a great day! 
BeHereNow
(17,162 posts)I find the fact that a relatively new member would accuse
ME of being a troll, well, hysterical...
BHN
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Just because you disagree with someone's point of view does not make that person a troll
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)Here before. But I have written alongside of Be Here Now for many years.
Just saying and typing this a loud - so maybe you will stop thinking BHN is a "troll."
elleng
(141,926 posts)spend some time here and learn a few things, please.
BeHereNow
(17,162 posts)Knew I could count on you..
BHN
Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)Then back up your buddy.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)BHN is a respected member here, so watch that Gob of yourn, k?
Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)Then back BHN up, k?
BeHereNow
(17,162 posts)SOG said I didn't have any friends that would back me up
and protest his accusations against me.
Guess that isn't true, is it?
BHN
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)BeHere is not a troll. She may have opinions that differ from yours but that does not make her a troll.
It is bothersome to me that, when faced with a differing point of view, people are so quick to shout that. I don't see any rope.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)I agree with the sentiment that all too often in high profile cases, a mob mentality does develop. That does not mean I do not believe that Zimmerman should be arrested and charged.
It doesn't matter if the person is guilty we still need to act like civilized people or we are likely to live in a society where revenge rather than justice becomes the 'law'.
I do not believe that is going to happen here, however it is really okay for someone to state an opinion about it as the OP did.
Too bad the thread did not prove him wrong.
People respond better to those who are rational. The OP may not have known all the circumstances surrounding this case, but instead of attacking him, informing him of why people are upset would have been a more rational and successful approach. .
Lashing out and calling people trolls because you don't like their opinions, is not a rational way to go about informing anyone. All it does is lose you credibility.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Maybe the question was too simplistic. Indeed the thread revealed a mob mentality but that wasn't the reason for the thread. I'm sure most people would not want to see our court system change to a "presumed guilty" mode. I do thank you for your input.
Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)I was responding to BHN who said there were disruptors in this thread. I agreed. The OP made this thread with the sole intention of disrupting. The vast majority can see that.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)He expressed an opinion, one that is not unusual in the world of 24/7 'news' coverage and Nancy Grace, and is not restricted to just this case. And he asked a question.
I didn't get the impression he was trying to disrupt at all. Sometimes things are just what they seem. A person, in this case, who is disturbed by the way the public gets whipped up into a frenzy and loses sight of what will affect all of us every time there is a high-profile case like this. It IS a concern so it's worth discussing imo.
In this case, and he may or may not have known this, it appears that there might not have been justice had the case not been brought to the attention of the media.
The police seem to be saying that under the current law, they could not arrest Zimmerman. That is a whole other debate, although very related to this case since that was their reason for not arresting him.
Since then, more information has surfaced that may provide what is needed to make an arrest.
But why not just respond to the question asked, and why assume the worst of someone asking a question, when there is no reason to do so?
L0oniX
(31,493 posts) nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)
BHN has been here for a few years...
I'd be careful of those charges.
Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)Are you threatening me?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)But you accused a regular of being a troll. It's not quite a good way to introduce yourself.
Now relax and enjoy yourself.
Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)This "regular" accused all of DU of losing their minds. Is that something you'd like to defend?
BeHereNow
(17,162 posts)Again, trying to deflect the attention away from your
bad behavior?
My friends on DU have not failed to notice.
WE are more than familiar with the technique, and if you
plan to be a part of this community, you need to learn that
that shit doesn't fly for long around here.
BHN
Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)BeHereNow
(17,162 posts)That is exactly the advice our new member needs to consider.
BHN
BeHereNow
(17,162 posts)This individual has succumbed to the mob rule.
Last thing we need is for a newbie to think that is acceptable.
It's not.
BHN
Grateful for Hope
(39,320 posts)your "considerable knowledge about trolls" being a member here for barely three months.
You might want to apologize.
Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)You sure defend BHN in this thread?
BeHereNow
(17,162 posts)Thank you for setting our new member straight about what does and
doesn't fit our mutually agreed upon CS.
BHN
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)"Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?" Would you rather have the US courts presume you to be guilty? Oh never mind you don't want to discuss anything anyway do ya.
RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)
RL
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)"Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?" or did you knee jerk react and miss that all together?
I'm pretty sure RL did answer your question.
BeHereNow
(17,162 posts)You are becoming more irrelevant with each post SOG.
BHN
Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)Seems like your on a lonely island in this thread. Who's irrelevant again?
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)who have no problem with a "presumed guilty before proven innocent" US court system. Oh yea ...that question you didn't respond to was "Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?" Did you miss that? The title was only a statement.
Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)Your OP is completely disingenuous and deserves nothing but ridicule.
Response to Son of Gob (Reply #284)
Post removed
unionworks
(3,574 posts)Have a chance to prove his innocense befor Zimmerman delivered the death sentence?
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)you are innocent? Care to discuss the original question?
Bluerthanblue
(13,669 posts)Regardless of whether you can see that or not. It doesn't matter if the 'innocent' person is Trayvon, or Zimmmerman. One of those people was denied a trial- and the other has so far completly escaped one. We cannot bring Trayvon back to life and allow him a trial, but we can demand that his death be seen as worthy of being judged in a court of law. That is ALL the vast majority of people here on DU are asking for, despite many of you insinuations to the contrary.
You may not like that your question is every bit as valid for Trayvon Martin as it is for George Zimmerman, but the fact is that it IS. An innocent man is dead. The man who admits being responsible for that death is walking around an 'innocent man' at present. There are many questions about why this man is not in custody. If he is innocent, a trial should prove that. At least he has a chance to be tried in court, something he didn't see fit to allow Trayvon. But that fact doesn't mean he doesn't deserve to have a chance to prove his innocence. I don't understand why you have such a difficult time acknowledging this.
Response to L0oniX (Reply #266)
Post removed
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)but instead you devolve into grade school mockery ...that makes you the real troll here.
RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)Obvious Troll is droll
RL
Herlong
(649 posts)Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?
Is was Travon heard before the gun went off.
My apologies to Travon an his family. I"m only trying to make a point on an underground message board.
Bluerthanblue
(13,669 posts)apparently.
I've said what you are saying over and over again, and the point is really valid imo- but the OP calls it 'reframing' the question.
What about Trayvon's assumption of innocence?
sikorsky
(96 posts)...
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)in fact, pathetic dweebs like you are just bigots playing the victim.
johnnie
(23,616 posts)Yeah, Zimmerman shot an unarmed black 17 year old. That seems to have been established. I have some sad news for many of you so you might want to sit down... innocent people are murdered in the US every day. The real tragedy here is the fucking police force and city leaders of Sanford, Fla. who apparently have a long history of this sort of racism.
There are a hell of a lot more threads condemning Zimmerman than what the real problem is.
Broderick
(4,578 posts)But not when it's politically valuable.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Who was Treyvon's jury? Zimmerman!
Who pronounced the death penalty on Treyvon? Zimmerman!
Who was the executioner who carried out the death sentence on Treyvon? Zimmerman!
And then the Sanford police and the state of Florida let Zimmerman walk without even doing the minimum requirements like giving him a drug test. Cause what the hell, one less "fu**in coon" in the hood, good job George, heres your murder weapon and your permit to roam the streets of Florida seeking more "suspicious black males" to execute !
Then the authorities let Trayvon's body lie in the the morgue for 3 days before they decided to contact his parents!
So now I'm supposed to treat this stone cold killer with all the respect, rights and dignity he denied his victim?
I don't give a damn about Zimmerman. He can run but he can't hide forever. He better turn himself in because if he is ever spotted on the streets, it would threaten MILLIONS of people and we would all have the right to STAND OUR GROUND! Amirite?
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)concerning the question. BTW concerning the question ...how would you like it if you were on trial with a presumption of guilt before you can prove you are innocent?
RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)
RL
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Life's a b*tch when ya get out of high school.
Bluerthanblue
(13,669 posts)
Sad
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Bluerthanblue
(13,669 posts)you don't seem to have much to say except to tell people that they don't 'get it', that they are 'reframing' the discussion, or to toss out a smart remark about other people's age/intelligence/maturity.
I've asked you what kind of 'discussion' you are seeking, and all I've seen is what I just listed. I guess I 'do' get it now, and can see why attempting to find any value in the 'discussion' you are seeking to inspire is not worth the time.
thank you for making that abundantly clear.
I finally 'get it'.
Response to L0oniX (Reply #322)
HangOnKids This message was self-deleted by its author.
RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)It's spelled BITCH.
As in 6200 views now and only 3 recs. Ain't it a bitch?
RL
varelse
(4,062 posts)It might be a long wait, since he apparently hasn't been charged with a crime.
And I don't think they hang murderers, even in Florida, so I'll settle for a prison sentence. I'm opposed to the death penalty anyway.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)"FU 2 DU3" for a while...
Jesus Fucking Christ..
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)of why, after 10 years of being a star member on DU, I no longer am.
AngryOldDem
(14,180 posts)But the fact remains he was not in a position of any kind of authority to demand anything from Trevon Martin. The police told him to back off and not pursue Martin. Martin, as we now know, was unarmed.
He has every right to mount a defense, but if the law in its strictest sense means anything anymore, he will be arrested, face trial, and be convicted of -- at the very least -- reckless homicide.