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Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
Sat Mar 1, 2014, 12:01 AM Mar 2014

Blowing Up: Tesla's Gigafactory Is Going To Revolutionize The Auto And Utility Industries

Very soon, Tesla is going to announce plans to build the world’s largest battery factory here in the United States. It desperately needs to get started on the project in order to have enough lithium-ion capacity to power its third-generation car that it hopes to sell for $35,000 just 3 years from now. To do this, the company will enlist longtime partner Panasonic, who is rumored to be investing upwards of $1 billion of its own money; likely raise significant capital of its own; and quite possibly even bring in additional outside players. That alone should be enough of an undertaking. But Elon Musk is thinking bigger. Not only is this multi-billion-dolllar venture going to set his automaker up for a move to the big time in the world market, it’s also going to give him a wedge to basically destroy the utility business in the U.S. And, those companies have no one but themselves to blame.

Batteries included

Under existing agreements with Panasonic, Tesla is already planning on buying 1.8 billion lithium-ion cells over the next 4 years. The reason it needs so many is because it uses thousands of them in each of its vehicles. Those nearly 2 billion batteries will barely give Tesla the ability to produce 250,000 Model S sedans and Model X SUVs and it’s likely the less-expensive “Model E” as its often referred to will sell nearly that many in its first year alone. Enter the Gigafactory, as Musk has taken to calling it, which will produce upwards of 30 gigawatt-hours worth of batteries per year. How much is that? “We are talking about something that is comparable to all of the lithium-ion battery production in the world in one factory,” Musk has said.

And it’s enough for hundreds of thousands of Tesla vehicles, assuming they offer similar packs to today’s cars, which Musk has also promised on a number of occasions. The marvel of the factory is that it will take in raw materials — lithium and the other metals needed — and spit out finished packs on the other end, in whatever sizes Tesla requires. Today, that’s 60 and 85 kilowatt-hours in a “large format” that will support both the S and X. The future vehicle likely will require a smaller pack and it seems probable a 100-kilowatt pack (or larger) is coming to the big vehicles soon.

Power to the people

But there’s much more. Tesla has already been running trials with SolarCity, which is run by Musk’s cousin Lyndon Rive, on a storage unit. What it does is hold onto some excess power generated by the panels on the roof of a home or business rather than immediately sending it to the grid. In the short run, this has the potential to solve a very big problem that’s headed California’s way brought on by the success of solar in the state. It’s something called “the duck graph” and what it shows is what happens when the sun starts to set and people head home from work. The result is a big mess where net demand for electricity spikes to the highest levels of the day all in the space of one hour. California is so concerned it has mandated significant energy storage be brought online to reel in the length of the duck’s neck before it gets too long.

snip

But the utilities have instead begun a war on solar. In Arizona, the state’s largest utility sought a fee of roughly $50 per month from each solar customer for the right to connect back to the grid. They lost and the fee will be $3-6 instead. Five other states are now seeking similar money grabs. Their problem is that solar customers are supposedly not paying their fair share of grid costs and are are costing everyone else money by selling power back to the grid they don’t use at the same retail rates they buy power, something called “net metering.”

The danger for utilities, though, is that they get exactly what they want. If net metering is killed, more customers will simply install storage and hardly ever tap the grid at all. While those customers will end up paying something to be on the grid, it will be a minimal amount. All their excess power will fill their battery pack and their electric vehicle and none of it will go to stabilizing the grid. It turns out the utility model isn’t well designed to lose even small numbers of customers yet in many states, it’s already cheaper to roll your own power than to buy it from the local utility. Make it punitive to play nice with the grid and more people will simply choose not to. That sets off a chain reaction that basically kills the utility business in a matter of a few years.

Where the Gigafactory fits in is that it’s likely going to drive the cost of that storage into the ground.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markrogowsky/2014/02/26/blowing-up-teslas-gigafactory-is-going-to-revolutionize-the-auto-and-utility-industries/

14 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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BlueStreak

(8,377 posts)
2. That's an interesting take. Basically it says the batteries are just a wedge
Sat Mar 1, 2014, 12:35 AM
Mar 2014

Li-ion is really a crappy technology when thinking of grid-scale apps. But the argument in this article is that because the utilities have been such dicks about individuals putting juice into the grid, home-scale batteries may be the only viable solution. That is really an absurd proposition, although I tend to agree with the article's argument. We should be putting 21st century regulations into place that don't force consumers to do something like this. There are better technologies for grid-scale storage -- magnitudes better than Li-Ion. Honestly, the only place Li-Ion is optimal is in vehicles (and it is way short of the task there) and small appliances. For anything else, it is just way too expensive and an unnecessary fire hazard.

This does raise an interesting question. After all, the utilities could easily change their stance and make it much more attractive for consumers to push juice onto the grid, And if they do this, then that part of the demand for Musk's batteries will disintegrate.

In the end, Musk knows this, and a lot of this is just PR bullshit -- especially considering how his brother is positioned. Anybody seriously looking at investing in Musk's businesses should evaluate the demand for Li-Ion batteries without the assumption that much of it will go into the home storage systems. Going for economy of scale of Li-Ion batteries is not a bad thing. There will be lots of vehicles that can use these. The real story has nothing at all to do with grid storage. The real story is that Panasonic and Musk are moving to corner the market for Li-Ion cells, which will put all the other car manufacturers over the barrel. Rather than talking this grid nonsense, reporters ought to be focusing on that.

Redford

(373 posts)
3. And they are going to build it in Texas because.....
Sat Mar 1, 2014, 12:36 AM
Mar 2014

It's a union free, right to work, low tax state. Getting screwed again by the corporations.

 

JaneyVee

(19,877 posts)
5. Elon Musk IS a modern day Tesla. Except much richer. Good for him and good for us
Sat Mar 1, 2014, 01:02 AM
Mar 2014

This will be a great new business right here in America. And for only $35,000, this car can be mass marketed. Hope it starts a revolution.

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
12. It is considerably cheaper...
Sat Mar 1, 2014, 11:31 PM
Mar 2014

than the original. New technologies start high, but come down to reasonable levels eventually. Hell, look how cheap you can pic flat screen TVs up for today. They are a hell of a lot cheaper than 10 years ago, and are much better.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
9. At 35k, it could kill the Volt.
Sat Mar 1, 2014, 02:15 AM
Mar 2014

At that price, I'd take the Tesla over the Volt. The range is sufficient for me to let go of my gas generator pacifier..

But until that happens, Chevy better be cranking those things out at max speed, because the market window on that product is going to close sooner or later.

Chathamization

(1,638 posts)
14. His hyperloop stunt made him seem like a charlatan. I'd be a bit cautious about believing the
Sun Mar 2, 2014, 12:03 AM
Mar 2014

things he says.

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
8. Tesla is also addressing the other bugaboo with electric
Sat Mar 1, 2014, 01:51 AM
Mar 2014

cars (besides range): "Refills." If technologies develop as expected, you can re-charge in a matter of minutes. The only other way to accomodate a long trip is by systematic battery swapping. This is workable, but capital & labor intensive. Nissan Leaf could not make a go of it when setting up a rent-car scheme in Europe.

300+ mile range at 65 mph with -15 min. Recharge and the game's over for the ICE age.

 

Pretzel_Warrior

(8,361 posts)
10. uggh. careful. "blowing up" and "battery factory" don't go well together
Sat Mar 1, 2014, 02:19 AM
Mar 2014

I worked for a company that bought a lot of battery cells from Panasonic, Sony, and Sanyo. I believe Panasonic had a factory fire and it was a major blow to their capacity.

 

ErikJ

(6,335 posts)
11. Decentralized renewable electricity should be a national security priority.
Sat Mar 1, 2014, 03:13 AM
Mar 2014

Especially with the very real possiblity of a CME storm from the sun or an EMP nulclear bomb which could shut down the all electrical system in the US for a few weeks or months.

HappyMe

(20,277 posts)
13. Yeah, because a hideously expensive
Sat Mar 1, 2014, 11:48 PM
Mar 2014

not at all practical car is just what I'm looking for.

Maybe....someday if I'm a 1%er.....



Nah.

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