So let me get this right, Right Wing Rabble topple a Democratically elected Gov't

[GRACIEBIRD]

in Ukraine and DU blames Russia for sending in troops to secure it's own military bases and Russian speaking minority?

Make no mistake. The current "insurgent government" in Kiev is represented by a large number of right-wing elements and we're not talking "right wing" like a Ted Cruz, we're talking "right-wing" like Hitler. The center-moderate parties of Ukraine made a deal with the right wing devil parties for their support including the "muscle" during the riots.

So now I hear these ridiculous war mongering TOOLS like Hannity et al talking like tough guys and talk of facing down the Russians and it's just disgusting. The US is hypocritical and it's transparent and awful.

NEWSFLASH!! Revolutions don't always bring the right people to power!! (look at last few years of international instability)

[dipsydoodle]

1. When you say DU

maybe allow the fact that there 200,000 registered here and put it context with that.

[GRACIEBIRD]

2. Ok I see a large and vocal group

that sound like Freeperville on 9/12/2001.

[geek tragedy]

10. It's the Putinistas here who sound like the Bushies defending the Iraq invasion nt

[RobertEarl]

3. True

There are but a few RW warmongers left on DU. But damn, they are noisy, eh?

[TwilightGardener]

4. Nope. Propaganda. Some elements may be undesirable, but it wasn't a coup, and

Russia is violating international law and is the aggressor.

[sibelian]

6. Propaganda, eh?

Well, gosh, it can't be true at all, then.

[Daemonaquila]

5. That's a load of horse hockey.

Ignorant newspeople and shock jocks are spinning that story, just as they were spinning the story about Occupy being nothing but a bunch of messageless, homeless hippies getting stoned and pissing all over America's public spaces. The truth is that the protestors in the Maidan and elsewhere, and the parties and groups that were active in the protests and takeover, are a broad cross-section of Ukrainians from all areas, of all faiths, across the political spectrum. Like Occupy, the presence of extreme right-wingers (Alex Jones types, etc. here, Svoboda et al there) does not transform the movement into a far-right, much less fascist, movement. Those now (shakily) holding office are not extreme right-wingers. Most are from the Fatherland party that holds about 20% of parliament. It is a centrist party with many good reforms on its agenda, including introduction of jury trials, establishment of a minimum wage, and strengthening of human rights.

So NEWSFLASH - please take the time to educate yourself about the actual politics and parties of foreign movements before accepting ignorant memes of the U.S. media.

[newthinking]

7. Then why did they give svoboda seats in the parliment. Why is "Right Sector" allowed to patrol the

streets?

Fatherland represented 20% of the voting population, so between them, svoboda, right sector, that is maybe 30%?

And how come nobody has talked about the peace treaty that was signed, where the group was given concessions, including the promise of an election in fall? That was not honored?

And what about threatening multiple opposition parties and their families were threatened and made to flee?

And how come nobody is talking about the fact that the "new government" is half made up of the wests former PMs. And why is the media presenting things as if the Western PMs were not also corrupt?

How can there be a fair election in May, when many of the opposition parties were forced to flee many areas of the country, party offices were burned, opposition has quit in fear?

The facts are that this was not a representative overthrow and it is indeed HEAVILY right wing.

[Adrahil]

12. ? Nobody "gave" Svoboda seats... there was an election...

... and they won them. I don't approve of what Svoboda stands for, but nobody "gave" them seats.

Also, even much of the Part of Regions (Yanukovych's party) voted to impeach him.

And yes, Ukraine has a history of corruption, including some of the new ministers. It ain't a perfect world, is it?

[newthinking]

13. They added 11 PM seats for Svoboda

and several right sector members were given posts as deputies to the National Security and Defense Council.

[GRACIEBIRD]

14. kick for a truthful statement after a flawed previous poster. nt

[JaneyVee]

8. Are you advocating US military intervention?

[geek tragedy]

9. No, you got it wrong, but thanks for regurgitating Putin's talking points nt

[Benton D Struckcheon]

11. Another apologia for revanchism,

And war. Maybe I'll start bookmarking these threads for when someone tries to deny anyone is carrying water for Putin.
Said thread already exists!
The only thing some armchair experts on foreign turmoil lack is shame.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

15. Yes. My own family members and thousands upon thousands of other Ukrainians....

....are right wing rabble.

And an interim placeholder government until elections are held in May is a "insurgent government."

That's exactly what is happening in Ukraine. You nailed it.

[GRACIEBIRD]

16. No one can deny...

that the "muscle" behind the demonstrations was extreme right-wing groups. And now the center right groups have rewarded the extremists with increased numbers of positions in the government.

Tell me I'm wrong. And bring proof.

[joeybee12]

19. Yuo're posting shit you're making up...yeah, I can deny it...

What absolute grabage you have the gall to post as fact.

[GRACIEBIRD]

21. Here's the op, show me what's incorrect.

in Ukraine and DU blames Russia for sending in troops to secure it's own military bases and Russian speaking minority?

Make no mistake. The current "insurgent government" in Kiev is represented by a large number of right-wing elements and we're not talking "right wing" like a Ted Cruz, we're talking "right-wing" like Hitler. The center-moderate parties of Ukraine made a deal with the right wing devil parties for their support including the "muscle" during the riots.

So now I hear these ridiculous war mongering TOOLS like Hannity et al talking like tough guys and talk of facing down the Russians and it's just disgusting. The US is hypocritical and it's transparent and awful.

NEWSFLASH!! Revolutions don't always bring the right people to power!! (look at last few years of international instability)

[joeybee12]

23. You're calling the insurgents right wing...you have no proof of that...that's Putin's

propaganda that the simple minded fall for..your tactics are straight out of Joe McCarthy's playbook...ignoring you baby, If I want garbage, Ill turn on Fux Noise.

[GRACIEBIRD]

27. You wanna go there?

I said in the OP:

>>>>in Ukraine and DU blames Russia for sending in troops to secure it's own military bases and Russian speaking minority? Do you really want to argue that Russia has military bases in the Crimea and the population there speaks Russian and considers themselves Russian and was previously a semi-autonomous region with close ties to Russia?

Make no mistake. The current "insurgent government" in Kiev is represented by a large number of right-wing elements Look at who the ministers are, the leaders in the imterim government contain Svoboda and Right Sector members and we're not talking "right wing" like a Ted Cruz, we're talking "right-wing" like Hitler. The center-moderate parties of Ukraine made a deal with the right wing devil parties for their support including the "muscle" during the riots.Here is one of the new "security" officials in Kiev: "I warn you, if anyone in this town, this area, engages in 'lawlessness' and looting, Right Sector squads will shoot the bastards on the spot. Then there will be order and discipline," one of the radical nationalist opposition group leaders, Aleksandr Muzychko, said on Friday.

and a quote from the same guy the week before the gov't fell apart: "If tomorrow these bastards [police] in Kiev won't stop, we'll take over military units, get hold of armored personnel carriers and tanks - we know how to operate them - and go to Kiev. Victory will be ours,"

So now I hear these ridiculous war mongering TOOLS like Hannity et al talking like tough guys and talk of facing down the Russians and it's just disgusting. The US is hypocritical and it's transparent and awful.

NEWSFLASH!! Revolutions don't always bring the right people to power!! (look at last few years of international instability)<<<<<Egypt comes to mind

[Tommy_Carcetti]

25. The muscle in the demonstration was the sheer number of protestors.

Which represented a wide spectrum of Ukrainians from multiple ideologies, linguistic groups, religions, etc. Yes, it included some ultranationalists. But it had anything but an ultranationalist face on the protest.

Regarding the interim government, I don't think you understand parliamentary politics. With parliamentary politics, parties will form alliances not out of ideology but for the sake of sheer number in an attempt to get the majority in parliament. Since ministries are connected to parliament, it's expect that a couple of the posts will go to a minority party. However, in the case of Ukraine and its interim government, the top posts--including the interim president--belong to members of the centrist parties, not to Svoboda. None of the front runners for the May presidential election are from Svoboda or any of the other far right groups. You are being mislead by gross hyperbole.

[GRACIEBIRD]

28. WRONG!!!

The muscle was "who was armed?"

Who threw explosive devices?

It wasn't the students with flowers in their hair.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

31. But if it was just a few rabble rousers up to no good....

....as you said, they would have been squashed without any further outrage from either the domestic or international communities.

There were some in the crowd throwing Molatov cocktails and blunt objects. And Yanukovych's response was to shoot live ammunition at the entire crowd, and whatever moral high ground he had up to that point was lost. And the rest can be attributed to the will and strength of the Ukrainian people.

[GRACIEBIRD]

32. it was more than a few

There have been numerous stories of Svoboda and Right Sector trucking in their supporters. And there MAY have been protesters from outside Ukraine from other affiliated right-wing groups.
Oh and there are pictures of protestors with handguns too. And what about the (so far unsubstantiated rumors) Right-wing snipers firing on protestors under a false flag scenario?

[Pretzel_Warrior]

33. Do a google search on DU and Ukraine. Your talking points

Have been blown out of the water days ago when posters presented the same cartoonish Putin-slanted view of what's going on in Ukraine.

[GRACIEBIRD]

34. that's not true... I've been following this closely.

You're just here saying "look away, there's nothing to see here. Keep moving."

[GRACIEBIRD]

36. take a look at this

[img][/img]

That is a group of some RIGHT SECTOR rioters from the "protests". See the logo on the closest helmet? That's called a SonnenRad, a NAZI-aligned logo according to the SPLC. Try again Pretzel...

[joeybee12]

17. Newsflash...your post is shit...

Absolute shit.

[GRACIEBIRD]

18. Yeah?

What part of it? Got proof?

Here's the text: (highlight and make your assertions here)

in Ukraine and DU blames Russia for sending in troops to secure it's own military bases and Russian speaking minority?

Make no mistake. The current "insurgent government" in Kiev is represented by a large number of right-wing elements and we're not talking "right wing" like a Ted Cruz, we're talking "right-wing" like Hitler. The center-moderate parties of Ukraine made a deal with the right wing devil parties for their support including the "muscle" during the riots.

So now I hear these ridiculous war mongering TOOLS like Hannity et al talking like tough guys and talk of facing down the Russians and it's just disgusting. The US is hypocritical and it's transparent and awful.

NEWSFLASH!! Revolutions don't always bring the right people to power!! (look at last few years of international instability)

[joeybee12]

20. You got proof, too?

Shit is the nicest thing I can call what you make up and try to call fact...free republic needs such propoganda.

[GRACIEBIRD]

22. so you got nuthin.

And how would my OP fit in with FR with the anit-right wing extremists comments? Try again.

[Cleita]

24. With the exception of our Revolution and the one in Chile from Spain, I can't

think of a single revolution that brought stability and democracy to a country and I watched a lot of revolutions happening in South America back in the days of the banana republics. Well, maybe Cuba in an odd sort of way.

We had a coup in 2000 when we had an illegitimate regime forced on us by GWB's cabal. We still are going through it with the ways our Congress is held by a minority due to crooked elections. Yet, because we resisted revolution we may get back to the democracy envisioned in our Constitution. We are riding it out. I don't know how this situation in the Ukraine can be fixed without a lot of upheaval considering the main players in it.

[GRACIEBIRD]

30. Agree 100% nt

[Bandit]

26. The Parliment there was elected just like the President was.

It was the elected Parliment that Impeached and removed the President. It was not street rabble whether right wing or not. The Elected Parliment is still in Charge and is scheduling a new election for a new President. It has absolutely nothing to do with Russia.

[GRACIEBIRD]

29. A credible argument can be made

that the Parliment was under extraordinary pressure as the rabble lined up outside with pitchforks, molotov cocktails and armoured vehicles.

[cali]

35. Newsflash: simplistic depictions of what happened in the Ukraine

are no better from one side than from the other.

I think I may have to change my tagline to:

I hate propaganda whatever its source- even when it reflects my pov.

[The Magistrate]

37. Always Nice To see a New Supporter Of Imperialism Coming Down The Chute, Ma'am

"New shooter! New shooter comin' out!"

[Gravitycollapse]

38. A grossly oversimplified "analysis" of a complex subject.