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Are_grits_groceries

(17,139 posts)
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:18 AM Mar 2012

No charges filed against homeowner accused of shooting Bo Morrison

SLINGER — Washington County District Attorney Mark Bensen announced Wednesday that no charges will be filed in the shooting of 20-year-old Bo Morrison in Slinger on March 3rd.

Morrison was shot by a homeowner on the homeowner’s porch, as he was allegedly hiding from police after attending an underage drinking party in the neighborhood.

The District Attorney’s Office says their investigation determined that the homeowner who shot Morrison acted lawfully in self-defense.
<snip>
The investigation report in this case says law enforcement was called to a noise complaint involving an underage drinking party that Morrison was attending. The report says Morrison’s BAC was .19 – over twice the legal limit for driving, and Morrison left the party, and entered the homeowner’s enclosed porch.
<snip>
The report says the homeowner “acted reasonably in his use of force, based on the facts and circumstances of which he was aware when he encountered an unknown intruder in his residence at 2:00 a.m. March 3rd.” The report says the requirements of the recently passed Castle Doctrine were met in this case based on factors including: time of day of the shooting, location of the shooting, small size of the room where the shooting took place, lighting conditions of the room (dark), dark clothing Morrison was wearing, the fact that the homeowner’s wife and three young children were in the home at the time, etc.
<snip>
More: http://fox6now.com/2012/03/21/district-attorney-issues-no-charges-in-slinger-shooting/

The 'castle doctrine'......



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No charges filed against homeowner accused of shooting Bo Morrison (Original Post) Are_grits_groceries Mar 2012 OP
I thought Castle Doctrine only applied if the intruder was IN your house auburngrad82 Mar 2012 #1
It was an enclosed porch I think.... Little Star Mar 2012 #2
Twice I have chased intruders from my home. I have never had to fire a shot. Just hearing a rifle appleannie1 Mar 2012 #3
I once heard a personal safety expert say -- Hell Hath No Fury Mar 2012 #4
It is more common in defensive gun usages for no shots to be fired... Lizzie Poppet Mar 2012 #5
He was drugged up. Drahthaardogs Mar 2012 #141
moreover, in the event you do need to discharge your shotgun.. frylock Mar 2012 #7
Depend what you stoke it with .... BOHICA12 Mar 2012 #34
I worked in a PD for 15 years. Most burglars are not armed and more homeowners are shot with their appleannie1 Mar 2012 #11
That's the best weapon for home defense, but a dog is the best thing. Incitatus Mar 2012 #43
it is a universally known sound somehow ProdigalJunkMail Mar 2012 #15
Seems reasonable considering it was in the dark at 2am. Pacafishmate Mar 2012 #6
i don't think it was reasonable to shoot him JI7 Mar 2012 #25
Nonsense. ellisonz Mar 2012 #29
Assuming the homeowner is telling the truth that Morrison really did "take a step towards" brentspeak Mar 2012 #8
This is the problem with these shoots... orwell Mar 2012 #9
Doing either is a good way to get killed dmallind Mar 2012 #10
I really don't want to ever kill someone ohheckyeah Mar 2012 #12
that's a good idea ProdigalJunkMail Mar 2012 #16
Yeah, the shooter was in genuine danger and "needed to defend himself" brentspeak Mar 2012 #13
"Shoot to wound" is Hollywood fiction. Nye Bevan Mar 2012 #17
Is firing a warning shot also a "Hollywood fiction"? brentspeak Mar 2012 #18
Warning shots are Hollywood Fiction. ksbsnowowl Mar 2012 #20
He can legally shoot dead an unarmed intruder brentspeak Mar 2012 #86
You have the location wrong. It was the back porch, and he likely trespassed to get there. piedmont Mar 2012 #23
Oh really? Straw Man Mar 2012 #154
Probably raising his right hand to apologize... ellisonz Mar 2012 #30
I think a culture of "don't break into someone's home at 2 am" would have worked even better. nt piedmont Mar 2012 #33
Baloney. ellisonz Mar 2012 #40
Would I want this to happen to a family member? ksbsnowowl Mar 2012 #45
"Play stupid games, win stupid prizes." ellisonz Mar 2012 #55
You can do better than cut-n-paste piedmont Mar 2012 #47
This was a party next to the guys house. ellisonz Mar 2012 #54
And this was 2 am, an hour after police were called piedmont Mar 2012 #115
"committing suicide-by-homeowner." ellisonz Mar 2012 #117
It's how our society is ordered gratuitous Mar 2012 #14
+1 Art_from_Ark Mar 2012 #38
... SammyWinstonJack Mar 2012 #102
and got root Mar 2012 #19
That seems justifiable... Joe the Revelator Mar 2012 #21
yeah, but i still don't think it was justified, he could/should have just called the cops JI7 Mar 2012 #22
As said above, if I find someone in my house... Joe the Revelator Mar 2012 #24
in this case the guy was not inside the home, he was in the porch area hiding from cops JI7 Mar 2012 #26
As explained above, it apparently was a fully enclosed sun room... Joe the Revelator Mar 2012 #27
It's a fully enclosed porch, not a typical porch but more akin to a sunroom. Selatius Mar 2012 #79
If this guy grabs a baseball bat instead of a gun... ellisonz Mar 2012 #28
Or the kid gets beat to death by a blunt instrument... Joe the Revelator Mar 2012 #31
Nonsense... ellisonz Mar 2012 #35
THis one is far from inexcusable....the guy came into the other guys house... Joe the Revelator Mar 2012 #36
Rubbish. ellisonz Mar 2012 #39
I wouldn't expect my kids to be drunk and then break into someone's house to hide from the police Joe the Revelator Mar 2012 #48
I did all the time, we usually just left the party if the cops were called Hippo_Tron Mar 2012 #155
Perhaps you missed this.. X_Digger Mar 2012 #41
He didn't have a scratch on him. ellisonz Mar 2012 #44
Nice falsified account in that article there. ksbsnowowl Mar 2012 #46
If it was so dark... ellisonz Mar 2012 #56
The light was off and he could not see what Morrison was doing brentspeak Mar 2012 #157
Did you take video? nt Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #158
And what exactly does distance have to do with it? X_Digger Mar 2012 #50
We frankly have no idea if we walked toward him... ellisonz Mar 2012 #66
Did you forget the DA's statement, again, or is that intentional? X_Digger Mar 2012 #87
Intentional? ellisonz Mar 2012 #88
So the DA wouldn't have pressed charges, even without castle doctrine, and your response is.. X_Digger Mar 2012 #93
Somehow I think you have an agenda... ellisonz Mar 2012 #94
Nice deflection. X_Digger Mar 2012 #96
What makes you think the DA and the police conducted a fair investigation? ellisonz Mar 2012 #98
Another dodge. X_Digger Mar 2012 #103
And you're defending a killer... ellisonz Mar 2012 #111
And another dodge.. X_Digger Mar 2012 #114
What makes you think the D.A. couldn't indict him and let a jury decide? n/t ellisonz Mar 2012 #116
"Couldn't"? None. But that wasn't the question, was it? n/t X_Digger Mar 2012 #118
Exactly. He's making a choice, and no one is under any obligations to make apologies for this dude. ellisonz Mar 2012 #119
"knowing full well the kid was likely not armed" -- equivocate much? X_Digger Mar 2012 #120
Should go to trial... ellisonz Mar 2012 #121
I notice you still haven't answered my question. n/t X_Digger Mar 2012 #122
The answer to your question is that the D.A. is making a choice... ellisonz Mar 2012 #124
That's a dodge, not an answer. X_Digger Mar 2012 #126
Malice aforethought. ellisonz Mar 2012 #130
That word.. X_Digger Mar 2012 #133
You really don't help your argument... ellisonz Mar 2012 #138
What leads you to believe that the homeowner intended to kill the intruder? X_Digger Mar 2012 #139
He's an experienced gun owner. ellisonz Mar 2012 #140
That's another dodge. X_Digger Mar 2012 #143
There's no dodge there at all. ellisonz Mar 2012 #144
Why do people like not answering my questions? X_Digger Mar 2012 #145
I know where you stand on these issues. ellisonz Mar 2012 #146
Lol, so you didn't actually answer the previous question. Okay. X_Digger Mar 2012 #147
You couldn't buy a clue... ellisonz Mar 2012 #148
Without "Castle Law" the homeowner would have been found justified anyway. ksbsnowowl Mar 2012 #42
Yeah, in this particular case, and after the fact. krispos42 Mar 2012 #32
They aren't saying who called the police in the first place... ellisonz Mar 2012 #37
Actually, the DA and the cops are saying the defending homeowner called police in the first place. ksbsnowowl Mar 2012 #49
So he knew there was the party... ellisonz Mar 2012 #57
Because no bad people ever came to a party? nt Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #90
Stupid question. ellisonz Mar 2012 #92
It's a very relevant question. You seem to believe that a party somehow means that the homeowner Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #97
You seem to believe one ought to shoot first, and ask questions later... ellisonz Mar 2012 #100
When you find someone skulking within your house, yes. nt Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #101
Hope you don't shoot the neighbors kid some weekened... ellisonz Mar 2012 #104
20 years old is now a kid? Soon it will be 25 or maybe 30. Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #105
No, I wasn't in the "in" crowd. krispos42 Mar 2012 #51
Well I did go to such parties... ellisonz Mar 2012 #58
Maybe Bo should have manned up and accepted the underage drinking citation instead of breaking... JVS Mar 2012 #62
Really? ellisonz Mar 2012 #64
Really! It's not the homeowner's job to know the intentions of the guy breaking into his house JVS Mar 2012 #71
"or use the doorbell and ask to enter." ellisonz Mar 2012 #74
Do you believe that Bo is entitled to enter other people's houses without their consent? JVS Mar 2012 #77
Do you believe a homeowner is entitled to shoot an unarmed drunk kid in cold blood? ellisonz Mar 2012 #78
How are you defining 'cold blood'?? Joe the Revelator Mar 2012 #81
As in he knew there was a party, he confronted them, he then called the cops... ellisonz Mar 2012 #82
When someone breaks into your house it isn't "cold blood" JVS Mar 2012 #83
He had time to ask him what he was doing there... ellisonz Mar 2012 #84
Never knew someone who hid in a house though. nt Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #91
He hid in a covered porch. That's how the houses are built there... ellisonz Mar 2012 #95
Why can't you grasp what a covered ENCLOSED porch is? nt Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #99
What don't you understand about malice with forethought? n/t ellisonz Mar 2012 #106
Because this has nothing to do with this case. You want it to, but it does not. nt Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #107
The hell it doesn't. ellisonz Mar 2012 #108
The fact that he had a gun really burns you up doesn't it? Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #110
"The fact that he had a gun really burns you up doesn't it?" ellisonz Mar 2012 #131
Wait he had a father? Well that changes everything. Please post some more stories where homeowners Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #135
And from the abstract view, withhindsight and evidence krispos42 Mar 2012 #134
Negative. ellisonz Mar 2012 #137
"Judicial review" krispos42 Mar 2012 #149
He can get a public defender for free. ellisonz Mar 2012 #150
Sure, a public defender for free. krispos42 Mar 2012 #152
Mr. Morrison wasn't an angel... ellisonz Mar 2012 #153
Yeah I remember all the times I got drunk in high school...then ran from the cops, then broke into Joe the Revelator Mar 2012 #52
Well I hope you never feel "threatened" enough... ellisonz Mar 2012 #59
So if you succesfully defend yourself (not have any harm come to you) it is murder? Kurska Mar 2012 #53
These are the facts. ellisonz Mar 2012 #61
This person broke into this house...why is this hard to understand? Joe the Revelator Mar 2012 #65
Under a bullshit law. ellisonz Mar 2012 #67
You think you should have to run in your own house? Are you kidding me? Joe the Revelator Mar 2012 #68
I think you have a duty to responsibly employ deadly force. ellisonz Mar 2012 #70
Al Sharpton's will read it and think to himself... Joe the Revelator Mar 2012 #72
Actually Ed Schultz is already all over this case... ellisonz Mar 2012 #73
Castle law and stand your ground are two very different things...but you know that. Joe the Revelator Mar 2012 #75
Your question should be "Did you ever break into someone's home while fleeing the cops?" JVS Mar 2012 #60
There's more to this story. ellisonz Mar 2012 #63
You want it to be the same, and it's really,really not. Joe the Revelator Mar 2012 #69
Yeah it is... ellisonz Mar 2012 #76
I'm sad for his family, but his son should not have broken into a house...he wasn't stalked, he Joe the Revelator Mar 2012 #80
Exactly.. sendero Mar 2012 #109
If you don't like people who break into houses getting shot, Nye Bevan Mar 2012 #85
Do you haved any empathy for the dead young man? Comrade Grumpy Mar 2012 #128
I do have a kind of world-weary empathy for people who get themselves killed by doing stupid things. Nye Bevan Mar 2012 #129
Why not let a jury decide? treestar Mar 2012 #89
That might require the D.A. to bend over... ellisonz Mar 2012 #112
Then the homeowner would have some pretty high legal defense costs. kiva Mar 2012 #113
That's no reason not to charge someone with a crime they may well have committed treestar Mar 2012 #132
But that's the job of the DA's office, kiva Mar 2012 #151
That's how it works in the UK. Nye Bevan Mar 2012 #127
According to this, that doesn't seem to be the case Hippo_Tron Mar 2012 #156
What gets lost in this discussion... Comrade Grumpy Mar 2012 #123
One where we fear criminals dsc Mar 2012 #125
Listen to what the DA dude says on the video. It's not just Castle Doctrine. slackmaster Mar 2012 #136
Guns provide an illusion of safety. McCamy Taylor Mar 2012 #142
I prefer a pair of cybermen. nt Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #159

auburngrad82

(5,029 posts)
1. I thought Castle Doctrine only applied if the intruder was IN your house
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:25 AM
Mar 2012

So now a kid hiding on your porch is considered an intruder INSIDE your house?

If these storied keep coming out then the NRA is going to be spending a lot of money to try sway the public's impression of the gun laws in this country.

Little Star

(17,055 posts)
2. It was an enclosed porch I think....
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:35 AM
Mar 2012

Many people use them as an additional room. And it was in the middle of the night around 2/2:30 am I think.

This is a sad case but it is different than Trayvon's I think.

edit to add: Here is a different link that gives more specifics. http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/143753546.html

Notice this statement:

A question surrounding this case is whether the 'castle doctrine' played a role. It's the law that protects homeowners who take action against an intruder. The district attorney said with or without it, he would have reached the same decision to not criminally charge the homeowner.


I think that most anywhere if someone breaks into your home you have the right to defend yourself and your family even in states where there are no castle laws. Maybe I'm wrong but that's what I've always thought.

appleannie1

(5,449 posts)
3. Twice I have chased intruders from my home. I have never had to fire a shot. Just hearing a rifle
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:46 AM
Mar 2012

being cocked was all that was needed to make them run like hell. Once from our enclosed garage and once from our cellar. And I am just a small female. I don't buy this "shoot to kill" attitude. Don't get me wrong. I had children to protect and would have shot if necessary, but it is not always necessary if you use common sense.

 

Hell Hath No Fury

(16,327 posts)
4. I once heard a personal safety expert say --
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:01 AM
Mar 2012

the best thing you could get to protect yourself at home is a shotgun -- the big ol' school ones that make a shit load of noise when they are cocked -- he said 9 times out of 10 the perpetrator would run like hell upon hearing it. No need to shoot, no need to confront any further. Sounds smart as hell to me.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
5. It is more common in defensive gun usages for no shots to be fired...
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:19 AM
Mar 2012

...that otherwise. Few people, unless drugged up or jaw-droppingly stupid, will continue acting in a threatening manner when confronted with a firearm. And yeah, not much more terrifying sound than that of someone racking the slide on a pump-action shotgun if you happen to be someplace you're not supposed to be.

Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
141. He was drugged up.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 10:03 PM
Mar 2012

Twice the legal drinking limit would put you about .20, which is obliviated drunk.

frylock

(34,825 posts)
7. moreover, in the event you do need to discharge your shotgun..
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:32 AM
Mar 2012

you don't run the risk of killing a neighbor or family member when a stray bullet goes through a wall or window.

 

BOHICA12

(471 posts)
34. Depend what you stoke it with ....
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:42 AM
Mar 2012

00 Buck, yep - got some penetration issues, tactical buck - less issues, #1 Shot (turkey load) lethal to the 15 yard range - minimal neighbor issues.

We are talking about a house .... with distance between abodes.

Apartments - disregard - better off with the bean bags.

appleannie1

(5,449 posts)
11. I worked in a PD for 15 years. Most burglars are not armed and more homeowners are shot with their
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:12 PM
Mar 2012

own firearm than by an intruders firearm unless they planned on killing you in the first place. A shotgun is your best defense. It is hard to completely miss with one. I was also taught that if you did shoot, you should aim to kill and not wound but it is better to not shoot at all if it can be avoided. I did not have to in either case. Just cocking the gun did the trick.

Incitatus

(5,317 posts)
43. That's the best weapon for home defense, but a dog is the best thing.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 01:00 AM
Mar 2012

I am an owner of both, but with my dog going crazy every time there's a knock on the door or a new person comes over to visit, I really doubt I will ever have to use my gun for home defense.

ProdigalJunkMail

(12,017 posts)
15. it is a universally known sound somehow
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:42 PM
Mar 2012

maybe the movies... i had an uncle chamber a round on a shotgun while i was walking toward his house one night about 3AM (well, i guess that is morning) and i IMMEDIATELY identified myself!

sP

JI7

(93,530 posts)
25. i don't think it was reasonable to shoot him
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:09 AM
Mar 2012

it's not the same as in Trayvon's case where we have evidence the guy who killed Trayvon was going after him.

in this case the guy went on the shooter's property, but still killing him was too much. not reasonable at all to me.

brentspeak

(18,290 posts)
8. Assuming the homeowner is telling the truth that Morrison really did "take a step towards"
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:51 AM
Mar 2012

(Which is hard to believe.) The shooter doesn't know how to fire a shot at someone's leg, let alone fire a shot in the air?

Gun nut whose life-long fantasy came true.

orwell

(8,003 posts)
9. This is the problem with these shoots...
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:58 AM
Mar 2012

...since one side is dead and there are no witnesses, it becomes he said/he dead.

Any shoot must have a full forensic workup at the very least. That means gun confiscation, ballistics, trajectory angles, blood spatter - the works.

All attempts must be made to corroborate the stories because after the fact anyone can and will say anything.

dmallind

(10,437 posts)
10. Doing either is a good way to get killed
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:01 PM
Mar 2012

Apparently you buy the Hollywwod shite that it's feasible to place shots within a millimeter on a moving target at night in a high-stress situation, or switch aim instantly from the suicidal "warning shot" to the attacker a few feet away when he keeps coming.

When you really need to defend yourself against young drunks in your house in the middle of the night, only idiots with deathwishes for themselves rather than others would shoot at anything but center mass.

ohheckyeah

(9,314 posts)
12. I really don't want to ever kill someone
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:14 PM
Mar 2012

but I live in the country and the chances of the cops getting to my house in less than 20 minutes are pretty slim. The first two cartridges in my .357 are bird shot........bird shot will hurt but is unlikely to kill anyone. If after two rounds of bird shot the person keeps coming, well, they get what they deserve.

ProdigalJunkMail

(12,017 posts)
16. that's a good idea
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:50 PM
Mar 2012

i have a shotgun in the house with two bird loads and one buck load in the magazine...but i never thought about it with the revolver. would be much easier to carry should i need it and the bird load won't go through anything. excellent... i have never understood why people use high caliber weapons as home defense...but your way makes sense.

sP

brentspeak

(18,290 posts)
13. Yeah, the shooter was in genuine danger and "needed to defend himself"
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:15 PM
Mar 2012

from an unarmed drunk youth who had his hand up.

It's not difficult for a competent and responsible shooter to fire a shot that isn't intended to drop the other guy permanently.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
17. "Shoot to wound" is Hollywood fiction.
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:32 PM
Mar 2012

And at 2 AM, in the dark, with your wife and family in the house, when a figure dressed in dark clothing is advancing towards you, there is no way to tell that it is an unarmed drunk youth.

The message here is to not break into someone's home at 2 AM, especially when the homeowner is there with his family.

brentspeak

(18,290 posts)
18. Is firing a warning shot also a "Hollywood fiction"?
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 09:56 PM
Mar 2012

If you bothered to read the article, you would have discovered that the victim wasn't inside the house; he was just on the porch. The gun nut who shot him dead was able to retrieve his handgun to carry out a completely unnecessary execution but he wasn't able to simply lock his front door to prevent the stranger from entering the domicile?

A) If the front door was already locked, why did the homeowner feel the need to unlock the door and confront Morrison with a gun? All he had to do then was call 911 and wait for the cops.

B) If the front door was not locked at 2am, the homeowner is obviously a moron who doesn't have the intelligence to be trusted with gun ownership. But we know that already from the result.

ksbsnowowl

(5 posts)
20. Warning shots are Hollywood Fiction.
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:46 PM
Mar 2012

You fire a warning shot in my neck of the woods, you get charged for unlawful discharge of a firearm. Having time to fire a warning shot means you weren't actually in fear of your life.

If you bothered to read the DA's report, you would have discovered that the intruder WAS inside the house. He was inside a fully-walled three-season room, complete with double-hung windows, insulated walls, and a locking steel exterior door with a storm door. There was no lockable door between the intruder's location and the rest of the house.

A) It was a back room, not the front porch. The homeowner armed himself because he feared those from the party had witnessed him call the cops on them, and was fearing retaliation. He was investigating the noise and going to check and make sure the back exterior door was locked. Before the homeowner even got to that door, he discovered the intruder in the room.

B) This back door was the same one the homeowner passed through as he asked those at the party to quiet their music, and while he was calling the police the first time. Perhaps he forgot to lock it because he was a little busy calling the police at the time. Regardless of if he forgot to lock it or not, an intruder still has no right to pass through the door.

brentspeak

(18,290 posts)
86. He can legally shoot dead an unarmed intruder
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 11:10 AM
Mar 2012

but be charged for unlawful discharge for firing a warning shot during the same exact situation? I call B.S. on your interpretation.

Nothing in the report to indicate that he even bothered to inform the intruder that, in an unlit back room/porch, he was holding a loaded gun and was willing to use it. What kind of an idiot holding a gun in an unlit room wouldn't at least mention the gun?

He was afraid of "retaliation" because he thought the neighbors overheard him placing a phone call to the police? And they somehow magically overheard him place the phone call while he did so from inside his house?

So he really was a paranoid gun nut. Case closed.

piedmont

(3,462 posts)
23. You have the location wrong. It was the back porch, and he likely trespassed to get there.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:03 AM
Mar 2012

I have such a porch on my house. It's where my washer and freezer are. Even if I forget to lock one of the outer doors, anyone there is trespassing. If I discover someone back there at 2 am with my wife and baby in the house, I will assume their intentions may be deadly, and act accordingly.

Straw Man

(6,943 posts)
154. Oh really?
Sun Mar 25, 2012, 01:54 AM
Mar 2012
It's not difficult for a competent and responsible shooter to fire a shot that isn't intended to drop the other guy permanently.

Simply and manifestly untrue. A person firing a handgun under stress at anything greater than contact distance is hard-pressed to hit a human-sized target at all, much less in a precise spot. Furthermore, lethality of a hit anywhere is a total crapshoot. Some people have survived being shot in the head, while others have died from being shot in the thigh.

Where do you get these ideas?

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
30. Probably raising his right hand to apologize...
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:37 AM
Mar 2012

...and offer to leave. We have to change the culture of this country that says picking up a gun is the answer.

piedmont

(3,462 posts)
33. I think a culture of "don't break into someone's home at 2 am" would have worked even better. nt
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:42 AM
Mar 2012

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
40. Baloney.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:56 AM
Mar 2012

Did you ever go to a house party in high school or college where the police were called? Do you have kids? Do you have anyone in your family Bo Morrison's age? Would you want this to happen to them? This is a small Wisconsin town on a Saturday night. Think about that.

ksbsnowowl

(5 posts)
45. Would I want this to happen to a family member?
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 01:08 AM
Mar 2012

No, I wouldn't want this to happen to a family member or one of my kids. But if it did, I wouldn't blame the homeowner; I'd put the blame right where it belongs - on the intruder.

Don't break in to other people's houses.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
55. "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes."
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 02:48 AM
Mar 2012

Oh look a new poster for the Gungeon - that is their favorite motto down there. Bo Morrison was a human being and this man made a decision to take his life. I'm sorry, but all this right-wing nonsense about the right to take another person's life on principle alone, and not out of any real fear of grievous injury is craven.

I hope you never feel the pain the Morrison ohana is feeling...

piedmont

(3,462 posts)
47. You can do better than cut-n-paste
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 01:16 AM
Mar 2012

I've never unlawfully entered someone's home at 2 am, ellisonz. If I ever do, I'll know I have a good chance of getting shot. And if I'm ever awakened at 2 am by noises in my enclosed back porch/laundry room, I won't disarm myself and hope for the best.
The violent crime rate in small towns is low, but it is not zero.

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
54. This was a party next to the guys house.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 02:45 AM
Mar 2012

I want to know if he was the one who called the police and how far away he was from him. If it was so dark, how did he see him raise his arm. You can do better than bullshit and weave. I hope you never find yourself at the wrong end of one of these vigilante's barrels, Bo Morrison did, and now his family and friends weep. How does that make you feel? This isn't a game, this isn't a gun magazine scenario, this is real life. How many Bo Morrison and Trayvon Martin's do there have to be before we stop acting like this is sensible.

piedmont

(3,462 posts)
115. And this was 2 am, an hour after police were called
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:53 PM
Mar 2012

"I hope you never find yourself at the wrong end of one of these vigilante's barrels, Bo Morrison did, and now his family and friends weep."
Easy-- don't break into someone else' house at 2 am.


How does that make you feel?
I feel terrible that a 20 yr old took 60 years off his life committing suicide-by-homeowner. I also feel terrible that a man trying to keep his family safe was put in a situation like this by a trespassing young man hiding in the dark in his home.

" This isn't a game, this isn't a gun magazine scenario, this is real life. How many Bo Morrison and Trayvon Martin's do there have to be before we stop acting like this is sensible. "

You bet your ass it's real life. Here's a story on the results of another 20 year old "kid" who invaded someone's house this month: http://www.4029tv.com/r/30691573/detail.html

Now how does it make YOU feel that a woman's life and a marriage of 65 years was ended this way? It's your right to refuse to arm yourself when your home is invaded, and maybe you will have nothing to worry about. But placing obligations on residents of dwellings limits their options in defending themselves in situations that are clearly dangerous for them, as supported by the results of thousands of incidents of home invasion.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
14. It's how our society is ordered
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:37 PM
Mar 2012

And everyone is not just entitled, but practically obliged to shoot first and questions can be asked later, if ever. There are very powerful, very organized forces that profit from our citizens being at each others' throats, frightened to death of each other, and blazing away with the finest firearms ever produced. These messages are recited and broadcast over and over, made the basis of popular entertainments (including movies, television programs, and electronic games), and so much a part of our culture that we live, and move, and have our being steeped in this violence. Noticing it is bad enough, questioning it subjects you to (at best) having your sanity placed in doubt.

JI7

(93,530 posts)
22. yeah, but i still don't think it was justified, he could/should have just called the cops
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:03 AM
Mar 2012
 

Joe the Revelator

(14,915 posts)
24. As said above, if I find someone in my house...
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:05 AM
Mar 2012

With my wife upstairs, I'm giving one warning for them to retreat, and if they move towards me I'm shooting them.

That does not apply outside my house.

Selatius

(20,441 posts)
79. It's a fully enclosed porch, not a typical porch but more akin to a sunroom.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:58 AM
Mar 2012

With family members inside the home, I do not blame the homeowner for shooting the unknown person.

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
28. If this guy grabs a baseball bat instead of a gun...
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:32 AM
Mar 2012

....Bo Morrison is still alive. That is a fact. As one Gungenhood member once conceded, "the gun made it easier."

 

Joe the Revelator

(14,915 posts)
31. Or the kid gets beat to death by a blunt instrument...
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:38 AM
Mar 2012

Doesn't take too many head shots with a bat to kill someone.....one will do it most of the time.

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
35. Nonsense...
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:50 AM
Mar 2012

It's really simple - if you pull that trigger and there aren't going to be any do-overs. If you pick up that gun you better fucking mean it. Guns are not toys. This is a small town in Wisconsin, this isn't urban Chicago, this was a Saturday night, it appears that the homeowner had called the cops on the party in the first place (I can't find any confirmation either way). Careful not to kill the neighbors kid now...you want that on your conscience?



Without the Castle Law he's facing at the minimum manslaughter charges if not second degree murder - this shooting is inexcusable


R.I.P. Bo Morrison - just another victim of an asshole with a gun...

 

Joe the Revelator

(14,915 posts)
36. THis one is far from inexcusable....the guy came into the other guys house...
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:51 AM
Mar 2012

You do that, you take your chances.

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
39. Rubbish.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:55 AM
Mar 2012

Did you ever go to a house party in high school or college where the police were called? Do you have kids? Do you have anyone in your family Bo Morrison's age? Would you want this to happen to them? Think about that.

 

Joe the Revelator

(14,915 posts)
48. I wouldn't expect my kids to be drunk and then break into someone's house to hide from the police
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 01:18 AM
Mar 2012

Hippo_Tron

(25,453 posts)
155. I did all the time, we usually just left the party if the cops were called
Sun Mar 25, 2012, 02:05 AM
Mar 2012

Worst case scenario you get a citation for underage drinking (if they can prove it) and they call your parents to come pick you up.

Then again, I'm white, so I'll admit that it might be a much less pleasant experience if I weren't.

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
41. Perhaps you missed this..
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:57 AM
Mar 2012
http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/143753546.html
[div class='excerpt']A question surrounding this case is whether the 'castle doctrine' played a role. It's the law that protects homeowners who take action against an intruder. The district attorney said with or without it, he would have reached the same decision to not criminally charge the homeowner.

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
44. He didn't have a scratch on him.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 01:04 AM
Mar 2012

I want to know how far away from Bo Morrison this asshole was when he pulled the trigger.

Seems like the Justice Department needs to get involved in Slinger, Wisconsin too...


License to Kill – Wisconsin Castle Doctrine First Victim
Friday, 23 March 2012 19:57
Paul I. Tascoupe
Wisconsin Politics

Madison – The eyes of the nation are focused on the shooting death of Trayvon Martin on Feb. 26, 2012 at the hands of a Neighborhood Watch leader in a small, gated Florida community. The shooter claimed self-defense and has yet to face charges because of Florida’s own version of the “Castle Doctrine”. The Florida Legislature went a step further than Wisconsin when they adopted the “Stand your ground” version of the law. It appears the Martin family will, at the very least, be given a chance to see justice served for Trayvon.

In Slinger, Wisconsin, there is another such story; it is the shooting death of Bo Morrison on March 3, 2012. At the time of the shooting, Bo Morrison was twenty years old, graduated college and joined the Marines. Friends who were with Morrison that night say he was just hiding after police arrived at an underage drinking party next door.

------

The homeowner’s account of events state he spoke to Mr. Morrison. Morrison raised his hands and took a step toward the homeowner. Now, read that again, the homeowner spoke to Morrison, Morrison raised his hands, then took a step? So we are to believe the homeowner was able to first remain calm enough to speak to Bo, then be able to see him raise his hands and take a step toward him? I thought it was dark; does he have night vision goggles?

Another interesting and unanswered question is who called the police about the party next door? Was it the shooter? At 2 am in the morning and only firing a single shot, the shooter must have been a sniper at one point in time, to able to fatally shoot another human being in the dark, half asleep.

More: http://www.politiscoop.com/us-politics/wisconsin-politics/837-license-to-kill--wisconsin-castle-doctrine-first-victim.html


That's someone's child and this asshole took his life without hesitation.

ksbsnowowl

(5 posts)
46. Nice falsified account in that article there.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 01:16 AM
Mar 2012

How about the account from the DA's report?

The homeowner stated that the light was still off and he could not see what the subject was doing
but at this time the subject raised a hand towards the homeowner and took a step towards the
homeowner. The homeowner stated that atthis point he already had his firearm straight out in
front of him with his arm extended and aimed at the individual. The homeowner stated that
when the subject took a step towards him, that the homeowner shot him once.


Not "raised his hands in the air." Raised his hand (singular) toward the homeowner. As if he was holding out a weapon. That's how it would look to an observer in that darkened room. Why don't we base our arguments on the official facts, and not some BS made up by a blogger?

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
56. If it was so dark...
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 02:50 AM
Mar 2012

...how did he see this.

Seems like you deal in presumptions, and not in facts. Seems like his story doesn't exactly jive...

I want to know if he was the one who called the police on the party and how far away he was from Bo Morrison. I want to know if he announced himself and what the response was to that. I want to know what the facts are, not what the white wash is the DA cooked up. Could it have been Mr. Morrison was raising his hand because he saw the gun "don't shoot, please don't shoot." I'm sorry but if the Wisconsin law allows this that law needs to change.

brentspeak

(18,290 posts)
157. The light was off and he could not see what Morrison was doing
Sun Mar 25, 2012, 11:54 AM
Mar 2012

Which means that Morrison likewise couldn't see what the homeowner was doing, nor that he knew a gun was aimed at him. So logically, the homeowner conveniently failed to inform Morrison that he was holding a gun on him and would fire if he made any moves. Instead, the panicked gun nut merely yelled at him "What are you doing in my house?! Why are you in my house? What are you doing in my house?! Why are in my house?!" -- completely pointless and useless initial questions to ask in a situation like that, especially in lieu of simply first stating "Don't move, or I'll shoot."

When Morrison apparently tried to make a placating gesture after he couldn't find the immediate words to answer him, the homeowner took that as permission to blow him away. And all the homeowner had to do in the first place was issue a simple warning or at the very least inform Morrison there was a gun pointed at him.

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
50. And what exactly does distance have to do with it?
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 01:20 AM
Mar 2012

20 year old 'child' marine breaks into your sun room / enclosed porch, is crouched down- you speak to him, he gets up raising his hand and starts walking toward you. It's 2am, you have no idea if the person in front of you wants to do you and your family harm- is he one of the drunken revelers from next door? Is he pissed that the cops came and broke up the party? Is there a reason he's hiding from the cops?

Hint, everyone is someone's child.

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
66. We frankly have no idea if we walked toward him...
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:18 AM
Mar 2012

...we do know the homeowner had no duty to retreat under Wisconsin state law and that if he did this would likely merit a trial. This guy had history with these kids - the Morrison family thinks this is a white wash and I'm inclined to believe them. Hope you never feel the pain the Morrison and Martin families are feeling...

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
87. Did you forget the DA's statement, again, or is that intentional?
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 11:48 AM
Mar 2012

[div class='excerpt']The district attorney said with or without it, he would have reached the same decision to not criminally charge the homeowner.

You're making some mighty big assumptions without all the facts that the DA has.

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
93. So the DA wouldn't have pressed charges, even without castle doctrine, and your response is..
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:07 PM
Mar 2012

.. "Repeal castle doctrine!"

Somehow, I think there's a hole in you *cough* logic.

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
94. Somehow I think you have an agenda...
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:08 PM
Mar 2012

...and it isn't looking objectively at the facts in this case, it's coming up with an excuse to get this guy off. Malice with forethought...

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
96. Nice deflection.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:15 PM
Mar 2012

Care to address the hole in your reasoning?

What makes you think the DA would have charged the homeowner, even before castle doctrine?

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
98. What makes you think the DA and the police conducted a fair investigation?
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:17 PM
Mar 2012

Black kid, white shooter - this isn't exactly rocket science.

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
111. And you're defending a killer...
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:43 PM
Mar 2012

Will you defend George Zimmerman if the Florida grand jury doesn't charge him? You're all over those threads too.

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
114. And another dodge..
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:51 PM
Mar 2012

Again, what makes you think the DA would have indicted this homeowner without castle doctrine?

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
119. Exactly. He's making a choice, and no one is under any obligations to make apologies for this dude.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:59 PM
Mar 2012

He made a choice to arm himself and pull the trigger knowing full well the kid was likely not armed, posed no threat to him, and that the police were in the area, the very police he had called to the party next door, after confronting party-goers.

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
120. "knowing full well the kid was likely not armed" -- equivocate much?
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 01:05 PM
Mar 2012

Or are you a mind reader, now too?

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
121. Should go to trial...
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 01:07 PM
Mar 2012

He had time to ask him what he was doing there and to conclude that he raised an arm. Just how dark was it. Did he know these neighbors? Were they generally armed. But you know whatever, keep on living in that gunners paradise.

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
124. The answer to your question is that the D.A. is making a choice...
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 01:21 PM
Mar 2012

Hard to prosecute and impossible to prosecute are two different things. He's not even taking it to a grand jury. That is a choice.

Answer my question now: will you defend George Zimmerman if a Florida grand jury decides not to file charges?

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
126. That's a dodge, not an answer.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 01:24 PM
Mar 2012

What makes you think the DA would have prosecuted the homeowner without castle doctrine?

But in answer to your question, it depends on what the DoJ has to say on the matter. There's a long history of institutional racism at this police department, so if the grand jury doesn't get all the information, or the police actively work to downplay the evidence, then no, justice won't have been served.

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
130. Malice aforethought.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 02:37 PM
Mar 2012

He did not have a reasonable fear. The police were in the area, he called them in the first place, he says he hears a noise and his first decision is to get his gun and leave his wife and kids. I'm sorry, but I'd like to see this guy grilled. His story is inconsistent with the reasonable action. Do you always check your locks with a .45 in hand?

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
133. That word..
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:09 PM
Mar 2012


[div class='excerpt']He did not have a reasonable fear.

So now you're a mind reader, too?



[div class='excerpt']I'd like to see this guy grilled.

What indication do you have that he wasn't?!?

Even absent castle doctrine, the DA would not have filed charges.

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
138. You really don't help your argument...
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 09:52 PM
Mar 2012

...when you assume that the other person doesn't understand the concepts involved.

I'd like to see this guy grilled in a court room.

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
139. What leads you to believe that the homeowner intended to kill the intruder?
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 09:55 PM
Mar 2012

That being the core part of 'malice aforethought' in such a case.

Or are you going to fall back on that worn chestnut about 'gunz is fer killin, therefore he meant to kill 'em!'

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
140. He's an experienced gun owner.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 10:01 PM
Mar 2012

He goes into a dark room with a .45. Given the events of the night so far I think he made a conscious decision to at least scare the trespassing party goer. He stated to the police that he feared retaliation from the party goers. He knew who it was and he picked up a lethal weapon. Asshole.

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
143. That's another dodge.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 10:29 PM
Mar 2012

Try this question again. What indication do you have that the homeowner intended to kill the intruder?

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
144. There's no dodge there at all.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 10:33 PM
Mar 2012

You sure do love telling other people they're dodging...it's like a mantra with you.

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
145. Why do people like not answering my questions?
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 10:43 PM
Mar 2012

Let's review, shall we?

[div class='excerpt']He's an experienced gun owner.

He goes into a dark room with a .45. Given the events of the night so far I think he made a conscious decision to at least scare the trespassing party goer. He stated to the police that he feared retaliation from the party goers. He knew who it was and he picked up a lethal weapon. Asshole.

What portion of your statement is a response to my question..

[div class='excerpt']What leads you to believe that the homeowner intended to kill the intruder?

"He's an experienced gun owner." - Nope, doesn't demonstrate intent to kill.
"He goes into a dark room with a .45." - Nope, doesn't demonstrate intent to kill.
"Given the events of the night so far I think he made a conscious decision to at least scare the trespassing party goer." - Nope, that would tend to indicate that the homeowner does not intend to kill.
"He stated to the police that he feared retaliation from the party goers." - Nope, doesn't demonstrate intent to kill.
"He knew who it was and he picked up a lethal weapon." - Nope, doesn't demonstrate intent to kill.
"Asshole." - Nope, doesn't demonstrate intent to kill.

So which of your statements do you feel is an answer to the question?

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
146. I know where you stand on these issues.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 10:48 PM
Mar 2012

Your questions are leading and redundant. That's why no one likes answering your questions because it's like debating a dining room table. Hey, you asked.

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
147. Lol, so you didn't actually answer the previous question. Okay.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 10:50 PM
Mar 2012

I'll take it that you don't have any indication that the homeowner intended to kill the intruder, and therefore your 'malice aforethought' comment was wrong.

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
148. You couldn't buy a clue...
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 10:58 PM
Mar 2012

There's tremendous evidence. I'd like to see it go to trial. I haven't gotten around to reading the full police report, but based on the reporting, I would say you're being deliberately obtuse if you don't think prior confrontation isn't a factor in demonstrating malice aforethought. Prior confrontation occurred. I'd like to hear the tape from when this dude called the police on the party. I'd like the D.A. to do his job instead of standing there like a smirking fool saying he couldn't win it even if he tried.

Done with this discussion with you, happy hunting

ksbsnowowl

(5 posts)
42. Without "Castle Law" the homeowner would have been found justified anyway.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:59 AM
Mar 2012

Read the DA's report. The DA found the homeowner justified under Wisconsin's decades-old self-defense laws, without bringing Castle Doctrine into the picture. The homeowner was also found to have been justified under the castle doctrine, but had this same event happened one year ago, or five years ago, the DA's decision would have been the same.

The only thing the Castle Doctrine does to this case is force Mr. Morrison's family to pay the homeowner's legal fees if they sue the homeowner and the homeowner is found justified in civil court as well (which he might or might not be).

Bo Morrison - just another victim of poor parenting. Don't break into other people's houses.

krispos42

(49,445 posts)
32. Yeah, in this particular case, and after the fact.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:40 AM
Mar 2012

It's easy to be the Monday-morning armchair quarterback.


Let's ignore all the people that got beaten or killed because they investigated a situation with a golf club or a lamp or a kitchen knife and found themselves overwhelmed and bleeding.

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
37. They aren't saying who called the police in the first place...
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:54 AM
Mar 2012

Let's ignore the fact that a young man is dead and this guy doesn't have a scratch on him. License to kill. I'm sorry but that is fucking murder. This is a small Wisconsin town on a Saturday night, the party was next door. This asshole got angry, shot an unarmed young man, and lied about it to the police...he had no fear for his life.

Did you ever go to a party to drink when you were young and the cops were called? C'mon krispos, this isn't Monday-morning quarterbacking, this is Saturday night sense.

ksbsnowowl

(5 posts)
49. Actually, the DA and the cops are saying the defending homeowner called police in the first place.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 01:19 AM
Mar 2012

From the DA's report:

On March 3,2012,at approximately 12:59 a.m. the homeowner called the police non-emergency
number to make a loud noise complaint about noise coming from the NEIGHBOR'S property.

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
57. So he knew there was the party...
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 02:52 AM
Mar 2012

...and he acted hastily. Seems to me like negligent homicide at the least in non-castle law jurisdictions.

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
92. Stupid question.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:07 PM
Mar 2012

I think this guy acted with malice and with forethought. I think this is a matter for a judge and jury to make a determination and not a prosecutor.

Laura Segrin
about 2 hours ago
2 people like this reason

I'm asking everyone to put yourself in the Morrison family's shoes for just a minute. Ask yourself "What if this was my child or brother?" Don't say that it never will be because you cannot predict the future or what mistakes your child will or will not make. It can happen to any of us. Bo was hiding from the police to avoid an underage drinking ticket. This was not a crime that warranted death.

He was unarmed and was non-confrontational. The shooter stated that Bo did not say anything to him before he killed him. Bo took a step toward the shooter with his arms up, making it obvious that he wasn't armed. He had to walk past the shooter in order to get out of the porch as the shooter was between Bo and the door to the backyard. He was shot when he took that first step.

This gun owner claims to have extensive training and experience in firearm handling. If this is so, then responsible handling would be a reasonable expectation. A responsible gun owner would not discharge a weapon into a dark room at the first sign of movement. I read the 27-page District Attorney's report, and the gun owner stated several times that "he did not think about it, he just reacted." A responsible gun owner would think first and then react.

The shooter heard a noise, loaded his weapon with 6 bullets, opened the door from his kitchen to his porch, entered the porch, and shot in the dark at the first sign of movement. I've been awakened by noises in the night, and have never gone to investigate with a fully-loaded 6-shooter. I certainly wouldn't enter a room separated by a closed door if I suspected the noise to be coming from it, I would have called 911. In the time that it took for him to go to his shelf where he kept his unloaded gun in a case, remove the gun from the case, load it with 6 rounds, walk through the kitchen, open the door to the porch, and enter the porch (all in the dark), he could have called 911 and had the police there probably quicker considering they were only 1/2 block away according to the DA's report.

There were several other options for this homeowner that night. He could have used non-lethal mace to immobilize Bo and called 911 to come and arrest him and take him to jail. He chose to kill Bo instead. This behavior is not acceptable.

I've known Bo for about 11 years. I watched him grow up with my kids. He and my son were on a softball team together. He worked with my kids at a local restaurant. Bo was not a bad person. He was a good kid who made some mistakes, none of which deserved the death penalty.

Please put yourself in the Morrisons' shoes for a minute, and don't allow this to happen again.

To the Morrison family...
My deepest and sincere sympathies to all of you. Bo was a good friend to and loved by many. His beautiful smile will be sadly missed.

https://www.change.org/petitions/wisconsin-state-legislature-repeal-the-castle-doctrine-law-justice-for-bo-morrison
 

Snake Alchemist

(3,318 posts)
97. It's a very relevant question. You seem to believe that a party somehow means that the homeowner
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:16 PM
Mar 2012

should have assumed this guy in his house had only the best intentions.

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
100. You seem to believe one ought to shoot first, and ask questions later...
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:19 PM
Mar 2012

Character witnesses would attest that Bo Morrison did not have a mean bone in his body.

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
104. Hope you don't shoot the neighbors kid some weekened...
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:29 PM
Mar 2012

This man acted with malice in forethought.

 

Snake Alchemist

(3,318 posts)
105. 20 years old is now a kid? Soon it will be 25 or maybe 30.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:30 PM
Mar 2012

If I see a 10 year in my sunroom, I may not load my weapon.

krispos42

(49,445 posts)
51. No, I wasn't in the "in" crowd.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 01:20 AM
Mar 2012

I didn't get to go to any drinking parties until I was 20, at my college dorm. My childhood wasn't particularly social after 5th grade.

Doubtless you're going to play amateur psychotherapist with my response just now, but whatever.


And I don't care if the homeowner didn't have a scratch on him. He shouldn't have to sustain a single pinprick as a precondition to being able to defend himself if the situation warranted it.

Once the situation is such that lethal force is a reasonable response to a perceived threat, waiting until your attacker is in a position to harm you before being allowed to use force is just crazy.

This isn't a game. There isn't an audience, or TV ratings, or the spirit of competition and good sportsmanship. Pretty much any room in a house is small enough that a person can quickly charge forward towards a person with a gun and do serious harm before the armed person can shoot. Remember, high stress destroys fine motor skills, like aiming, and darkness makes shooting much more by guess than by sight. Especially if the defender is distracted (perhaps by a wife asking if everything is okay) or if the attacker is moving around.

The attacker ducks, left, ducks right, and charges towards you with his head lowered. Maybe he flings a book or a lamp or a knickknack at you first. Can you aim the handgun and fire in the two seconds that elapsed between his first duck and his tackle? Even if you land a hit before you go crashing to the floor with him on top of you, how long can the fight go on before the bullet wound takes effect? How long will you have to wrestle around on the floor before blood loss becomes an issue that works to your advantage? 30 seconds? 30 minutes?

I'm all for gathering up the family and barricading everybody in a "safe room" in the house if you KNOW there's somebody in the house and you have the luxury of doing so. Throw the deadbolts on the reinforced bedroom door, break out the guns, and call the cops. Have a house key on a glowstick, so you can throw it down to the responding officers.


But the guy didn't know the teen was there until he was going to check to make sure the back door was locked. And in a furnished room there's tons of stuff to grab and throw as a distraction for an assault. And let's not forget (as is implied in your reply) teens do stupid stuff... like try to rush past a guy with a handgun so they don't get busted for underage drinking.


ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
58. Well I did go to such parties...
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 02:57 AM
Mar 2012

...and I knew people who ran from the police, hid in yards etc. They didn't deserve to have their lives taken over a noise complaint and drinking party.

I'm hearing a lot of hypothesis that don't fit the circumstances of this case. This man knew there was a party, knew the police were coming, and he knew what the odds are that this was just a drunk kid. He didn't care. That's the fact here, he went for that gun and acted in haste.

I do not believe Bo Morrison had any reason to make any hostile move towards this man. I think he acted in cold blood. Most people act differently and it never makes the news.

Why was Bo Morrison's life taken so cheaply? Why was Trayvon Morrison's life taken so cheaply? Why do people feel they have the right to take someone's life in haste?

JVS

(61,935 posts)
62. Maybe Bo should have manned up and accepted the underage drinking citation instead of breaking...
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:12 AM
Mar 2012

into a house. Or maybe he could have knocked on the door and asked permission to hide and not scared the shit out of a family that was asleep at 1 in the fucking morning and had no idea what was going on.

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
64. Really?
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:15 AM
Mar 2012

You're going to run with that. Someone is dead. I think this guy should have manned up and held his fucking fire.

JVS

(61,935 posts)
71. Really! It's not the homeowner's job to know the intentions of the guy breaking into his house
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:26 AM
Mar 2012

It's the Bo's job not to go around breaking into houses. He can either avoid the house altogether, or use the doorbell and ask to enter.

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
74. "or use the doorbell and ask to enter."
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:40 AM
Mar 2012

Do you really believe this nonsense?

I guess Trayvon Martin shouldn't have defended himself against George Zimmerman, if he in fact did so.

JVS

(61,935 posts)
77. Do you believe that Bo is entitled to enter other people's houses without their consent?
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:56 AM
Mar 2012

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
78. Do you believe a homeowner is entitled to shoot an unarmed drunk kid in cold blood?
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:58 AM
Mar 2012

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
82. As in he knew there was a party, he confronted them, he then called the cops...
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 04:10 AM
Mar 2012

...he then shot a kid in his porch after asking him what he was doing there and not allowing him to respond, while not being physically attacked. Believe me, if he had lunged or if he had reached for a weapon, it would be in there. The fact is that he didn't and this guy shouldn't have pulled that trigger.

Done with this conversation. If you want to defend the guy have at it...but to many of us, this is a absurd, tragic, and ought to have gone to court.

JVS

(61,935 posts)
83. When someone breaks into your house it isn't "cold blood"
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 04:14 AM
Mar 2012

An action done in cold blood is one done calculatingly and without fear. The fear that people experience in a home invasion makes a cold blooded shooting impossible, unless they were to do something very odd like capture the person, detain them, wait several hours while letting their emotions cool down, and then shooting them. This is clearly not the case.

When the person breaks into the home, it surprises the homeowner and catches them unaware. Due to this, I consider it completely reasonable that their concerns are more with defending themselves than with making sure that the intruder gets out safely or even alive.

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
84. He had time to ask him what he was doing there...
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 04:17 AM
Mar 2012

...there was history here - this wasn't split second. He acted in haste. You can believe whatever you want, but IMHO you're wrong about this law, and you're wrong about this case.

I hope you never shoot the neighbors kid

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
95. He hid in a covered porch. That's how the houses are built there...
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:10 PM
Mar 2012

Imagine if this was someone you knew...

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
108. The hell it doesn't.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:41 PM
Mar 2012

Either way, clearly, you care more about absolving an asshole with a gun than about an unarmed dead black kid who posed no threat.

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
131. "The fact that he had a gun really burns you up doesn't it?"
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 02:38 PM
Mar 2012

This burns me up:



It should burn you up too, but then again, I'm not really surprised.
 

Snake Alchemist

(3,318 posts)
135. Wait he had a father? Well that changes everything. Please post some more stories where homeowners
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 06:57 PM
Mar 2012

kill intruders.

krispos42

(49,445 posts)
134. And from the abstract view, withhindsight and evidence
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 04:52 PM
Mar 2012

...you're likely right. Unless the teen had a criminal history or had an intention of committing a crime and this information is not coming to light, then you're right.

And running from the police is not a legitimate cause for the homeowner to shoot him. Hiding in his yard is also not a legitimate cause to shoot him.

That's not the issue.

The issue is that when the homeowner pulled the trigger, it was reasonable for him to be very concerned about his and his family's safety and health. Or so the police report said, at any rate.

The teen was in his house, his family was nearby, it was dark, and the distance we short.

The teen might not have made a move with hostile intent. Doesn't matter. He made a move that could easily have been hostile. Or so the police report said, at any rate.

I'll also turn an argument back on you. It's been said by the people opposed to concealed-carry on college campuses that we can't trust those students with handguns because they're party animals, they drink and do drugs, they're irresponsible, etc.

Okay.

The teen that was killed is exactly part of the age group your side doesn't want carry on campus because they do stupid things. Well, it's pretty likely that this teen, Bo Morrison, did something stupid and got a gun pointed at him (breaking and entering, or at least entering) and then did something else stupid to make the guy scared and pull the trigger. Maybe he went for his cell phone. Maybe he convinced himself the homeowner wouldn't shoot an unarmed man. Maybe he thought he could lunge past the guy and break free. Maybe he had weed or special-k or ecstasy or coke or some other drug on him and didn't want to get the cops involved.

I don't know his motivation.

Hell, maybe you're right and the homeowner simply decided to shoot the frozen, unmoving, scared-stiff teen because the guy had a Rambo complex and a tiny penis.

I don't know.

I do know that, unlike Zimmerman, the homeowner waited and hid his Rambo fantasies and penile-inadequacy rage until circumstances delivered him conditions for a justifiable homicide.

But at the same time, we can also say that about all cops that get to shoot somebody, can't we?

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
137. Negative.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 09:50 PM
Mar 2012

I'm going to stick to the facts of the case. Less than an hour beforehand this same homeowner confronted members of this party and called the police. He knew police where in the area and he acted in reckless haste. It could have been a law enforcement officer in that room. He creeps in with his .45 drawn. He knew what to expect and he should have reasonably acted with due caution, he did not and an unarmed young man is dead. Those are simple facts.

Maybe he went for his cell phone. Maybe he convinced himself the homeowner wouldn't shoot an unarmed man. Maybe he thought he could lunge past the guy and break free. Maybe he had weed or special-k or ecstasy or coke or some other drug on him and didn't want to get the cops involved.


That would have been in the police report if it was the case, it would be in the newspapers. My suspicion is that Bo Morrison raised his hand because he saw the gun and want to apologize/leave. That is the natural reaction in that sort of situation.

The teen was in his house, his family was nearby, it was dark, and the distance we short.

The teen might not have made a move with hostile intent. Doesn't matter. He made a move that could easily have been hostile. Or so the police report said, at any rate.


So why leave his family? He could have woken is children and waited with them while he called police. That would have been the sensible thing to do. He didn't do the sensible thing, he did the irrational, malicious thing drew his gun and went for trouble. This case deserves to go to trial, just because the case is hard, does not mean Bo Morrison doesn't deserve the just act of judicial review.

krispos42

(49,445 posts)
149. "Judicial review"
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 11:28 PM
Mar 2012

In other words, you want the shooter punished, even if you can't put him in jail. You want him to go through three years of expensive legal maneuverings and a public trial. "Not guilty" verdict after blowing his entire kid's college fund on a lawyer.

The news report didn't have the complete police report, so we can't know he wasn't carrying drugs. However, I'll concede that if he was carrying illegal drugs the news would have mentioned it. It did mention, however, that his BAC was 0.19, so his judgement was definitely impaired and he was illegally consuming alcohol.

Neither the police report nor the news outlet can tell us what was going through Morrison's mind in the last seconds of his life, so we'll never know. I don't know if he raised his hand; I don't know what was in his hand; and I don't know what, if anything, he might have been reaching for.

Why did he leave is family? What, do you call the cops ever time a pipe pings in the basement or a branch taps a window? Rouse the kids and lock them in your bedroom behind a barricaded door? What if it was an injured neighbor seeking help? What if the house, car, or outbuilding is on fire?

He heard something. Morrison was sneaking around, trying to avoid detection, in a room in his house. The homeowner makes contact. Now what?

The homeowner doesn't know Morrison from Adam. He doesn't know Morrison's history, his motive, or his state of mind. He doesn't know of Morrison is armed, doesn't know if Morrison has an accomplice.

There's a hell of a lot he doesn't know, the pressure and seriousness of the situation is high, and time is short. Unknowns and undesirable possibilities are whirling through his mind.

He DOES know that his family is nearby, the police are far away, and he's got the drop on at least one intruder.

What you you have him do? Retreat? Well, now he's got to back up almost blindly, in darkness, keeping his gun and eye on Morrison and making himself vulnerable to an accomplice or to a trip-and-fall. And once out of sight, Morrison will have a chance to draw a weapon and re-engage the homeowner on equal footing to prevent him from calling for help. Or set the house on fire to cover his escape.

Once contact is made, the homeowner's options become sharply limited. Surprise is gone, the intruder is alerted, and he's committed to covering Morrison until somebody, anybody, shows up and changes the circumstances.

In this case, Morrison made a movement. He was a wrestler, football player, and baseball player, which means he knows how to swing a weapon, tackle, and wrestle. He's probably pretty athletic, maybe a good bit larger and stronger than the homeowner. And he's drunk.

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
150. He can get a public defender for free.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 11:46 PM
Mar 2012

If that public defender is incompetent he can request a new trial. He should have thought about that before he raised that gun and pulled the trigger.

You can access the complete police report from this article as a PDF: http://www.jsonline.com/news/ozwash/slinger-homeowner-wont-be-charged-in-fatal-shooting-9q4mdbl-143712626.html

I get it, you don't like duty to retreat, but frankly, it's been a sound legal principle for quite a long time. All these new Castle and Stand Your Ground laws are carbon copies of the right-wing agenda. You can stop with the hypotheticals and start doing so objective research into how these laws are applied. Here's a start: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/24/opinion/floridas-disastrous-self-defense-law.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

This should have gone to court. I hope the Morrison family contacts the State Attorney General's Office and the Justice Department.

krispos42

(49,445 posts)
152. Sure, a public defender for free.
Sun Mar 25, 2012, 01:20 AM
Mar 2012

Part of the continuing disparity between the rich and the poor. The state is too poor to successfully take on the massive legal departments of the wealthy and powerful, but they can damn sure ruin the lives of average people with legal fees.

What you're really about is making self-defense such a life-destroying process that people don't bother, they just huddle in the corner and beg for mercy because, let's face it, in your legal world that the preferable option.

In other words, the home-defender's life is ruined completely and utterly whether he shoots or not, because either the state or the criminal will smash his body and destroy whatever modest savings the home-defender has.

Wonderful world you want to live in.



Anyway, to the links in your post... first off, the prosecutor states that even with duty to retreat, it would have been pretty difficult to get a conviction.

Doesn't mean he wouldn't bring it to trial, of course.. public pressure can make that happen even with a virtually zero chance of success. And as stated above, trials cost $$$.

But it looks like Morrison stood up without saying anything and extended his hand towards the homeowner. According to the wife, the husband yelled three warnings before firing the shot.

And that room is tiny... less than 12x8 feet. Hell, the bedrooom that i'm in now is about that big, and I wound be very nervous holding somebody at gunpoint at this close a distance.

And let's not forget that Morrison wasn't exactly an angel:

[div class=excerpt style=background:#AFEEEE]9 Mr. Morrison likely had several reasons for running from the police on the night of March 3,2012' Not only did
he not want to receive an underage drinking ticket, but he was likely aware that he had two pending criminal cases
in Washington County and a conãition of the bond in those cases was that he maintain absolute sobriety. He also
had pendiñg criminal cases in Milwaukee County and Dane County. In the Dane County case, a condition of his
bond was that he not consume alcohol. He was likely aware that if he was caught by the police with alcohol in his
system, he would have been in violation of the bonds in his pending criminal cases, and he would likely have been
charged with the crime of Bail jumping for violating a condition of his bond.

It looks clean to me... and I have to hit the hay.

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
153. Mr. Morrison wasn't an angel...
Sun Mar 25, 2012, 01:33 AM
Mar 2012

...but he had no history of violence and he didn't deserve to have his life taken like that.

I have finished reading the D.A. report and there are numerous holes in its investigation, principally that it fails to establish the homeowners state of mind and thus to adequately consider the homeowners expectation of "reasonable" fear.

The husband and wife have inconsistent statements and the statement from the wife in no way describes his temper that night after getting into a verbal confrontation with the neighbors/party goers or after his conversation with the police officer just 10 minutes before the shooting.

Part of the continuing disparity between the rich and the poor. The state is too poor to successfully take on the massive legal departments of the wealthy and powerful, but they can damn sure ruin the lives of average people with legal fees.

What you're really about is making self-defense such a life-destroying process that people don't bother, they just huddle in the corner and beg for mercy because, let's face it, in your legal world that the preferable option.

In other words, the home-defender's life is ruined completely and utterly whether he shoots or not, because either the state or the criminal will smash his body and destroy whatever modest savings the home-defender has.

Wonderful world you want to live in.


Many states don't have this absurd law and function just fine..

You seem to have a very low opinion of our court system.

 

Joe the Revelator

(14,915 posts)
52. Yeah I remember all the times I got drunk in high school...then ran from the cops, then broke into
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 01:21 AM
Mar 2012

Someones house to hide from the cops...happened every weekend.

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
59. Well I hope you never feel "threatened" enough...
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:02 AM
Mar 2012

...take someone's life in haste like that. This guy had a history with these kids and there needs to be a real investigation and not just a white wash with a grinning D.A. - Bo Morrison is dead, people have a right to expect more than a nonsense answer.

Kurska

(5,739 posts)
53. So if you succesfully defend yourself (not have any harm come to you) it is murder?
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 01:24 AM
Mar 2012

How many times should I let an intruder scratch me at 2 am to soothe your raging moral indignation?

It is also amazing that you're a mind reader "He had no fear for his life". Why don't you back that statement up with a shred of real evidence, I'll wait.

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
61. These are the facts.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:11 AM
Mar 2012
Shortly before 1 a.m. the homeowner was awakened by loud music coming from the property east of his home, walked outside through the back porch and heard loud music coming from a car in a driveway.

After pounding on the car and telling a female inside to turn down the volume, he got into a brief verbal confrontation with the car's occupants before going back inside his residence and calling police.

-----------

The man told investigators he heard noises by the back porch, thought someone might be breaking in and grabbed and his loaded revolver.

-----------

The man then asked Morrison what he was doing there before Morrison stood up, raised his hand and took a step toward him.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/ozwash/slinger-homeowner-wont-be-charged-in-fatal-shooting-9q4mdbl-143712626.html


This homeowner called the police on a teenage party. His story doesn't jive, did he hear someone in the house, it's a small area, did he announce himself, did Bo Morrison announce himself. What do the ballistics show. I don't want you to soothe my "raging moral indignation," I want you to accept the evidence we do have and accept the fact that this appears to many to be a white wash and another sign of ridiculous self-defense law. If it was so dark and he was so threatened...why didn't he retreat. He had no reason to act in haste. I'm sorry but there's more too this story.

This guy had a history with these kids. He fired before his question was answered. He committed a crime IMHO, and I hope this case attracts the attention Trayvon Martin did.

 

Joe the Revelator

(14,915 posts)
65. This person broke into this house...why is this hard to understand?
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:16 AM
Mar 2012

The owner of the house has no duty to retreat from someone who has broken into his home.

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
67. Under a bullshit law.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:19 AM
Mar 2012

I hope my state never passes one of these bullshit laws. I think you should have a duty to retreat beyond a reasonable doubt. IMHO this case should have gone to trial

 

Joe the Revelator

(14,915 posts)
68. You think you should have to run in your own house? Are you kidding me?
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:21 AM
Mar 2012

Why? My first priority is to protect my family, not try to find the furthest point to his in my house. What if my kid sleeps in the room closest to where the intruder is? Do I leave her there while I run to the far corner of my house?

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
70. I think you have a duty to responsibly employ deadly force.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:25 AM
Mar 2012

Not all states have these ridiculous castle and stand-your-ground laws. If this happens in California, there would be a trial. These determinations ought to be for judge and jury to make, not police and prosecutors.

I'm going to stop arguing with and send this shit to Al Sharpton. Where is the justice in America?

 

Joe the Revelator

(14,915 posts)
72. Al Sharpton's will read it and think to himself...
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:28 AM
Mar 2012

That guy really shouldn't haven't broken into the other guys house....

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
73. Actually Ed Schultz is already all over this case...
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:39 AM
Mar 2012
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45755822/vp/46840973#46840973

This isn't going to go away. Talk about pouring fuel on the Trayvon Martin fire. Enough is enough with these gunslingers and their Castle Law. Where is the justice?

JVS

(61,935 posts)
60. Your question should be "Did you ever break into someone's home while fleeing the cops?"
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:09 AM
Mar 2012

I always considered running away from a police raid into the woods to be foolhardy enough, breaking into someone's home takes things to totally stupid.

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
63. There's more to this story.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:14 AM
Mar 2012

Read: http://www.jsonline.com/news/ozwash/slinger-homeowner-wont-be-charged-in-fatal-shooting-9q4mdbl-143712626.html

Kids do stupid things, doesn't make shooting them at point black range before they can answer your question as to what they are doing there. This man acted in haste, and frankly, I think he may have acted in malice.

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
76. Yeah it is...
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:53 AM
Mar 2012

It's pointless, thoughtless gun violence. Look them in the face and say this okay.





"I don't think that man should have shot my son like that." - Murray Morrison.

 

Joe the Revelator

(14,915 posts)
80. I'm sad for his family, but his son should not have broken into a house...he wasn't stalked, he
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 04:06 AM
Mar 2012

Wasnt profiled, he wasn't shot while minding his own buisness. He was shot because he broke into another persons house, and that man had a duty to protect his family.

sendero

(28,552 posts)
109. Exactly..
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:42 PM
Mar 2012

.... there is zero comparison between this case and the Martin case. I feel sorry for everyone involved but I don't think the homeowner did anything wrong.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
85. If you don't like people who break into houses getting shot,
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 08:58 AM
Mar 2012

then don't break into houses.

See how easy it is?

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
128. Do you haved any empathy for the dead young man?
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 01:53 PM
Mar 2012

There is no evidence he meant the homeowner any harm. Is there?

He apparently drunkenly tried to hide from police in a nearby (enclosed) porch to avoid an underage drinking bust.

Now he's dead.

Tough shit?

You come off like someone I wouldn't want to know.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
129. I do have a kind of world-weary empathy for people who get themselves killed by doing stupid things.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 02:19 PM
Mar 2012

Like in the Darwin Awards.

If any good comes of this it will be to warn others not to break into people's houses in the middle of the night. When you do that, shit tends to happen.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
89. Why not let a jury decide?
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 11:56 AM
Mar 2012

To go so far as to not even press charges - that makes no sense in a case like this. It should be tested at least.

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
112. That might require the D.A. to bend over...
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:45 PM
Mar 2012

...pull his smirking face (watch the news video) out of his ass and actually make a case for malice. He had a prior confrontation with the party goers and had called the police less than an hour beforehand.

kiva

(4,373 posts)
113. Then the homeowner would have some pretty high legal defense costs.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:48 PM
Mar 2012

Unless he qualified for free legal aid, he'd be paying a hefty fee to defend himself in court.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
132. That's no reason not to charge someone with a crime they may well have committed
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:05 PM
Mar 2012

Anyone could say that - there would be no crimes charged at all.

kiva

(4,373 posts)
151. But that's the job of the DA's office,
Sun Mar 25, 2012, 12:54 AM
Mar 2012

to decide if there's sufficient evidence to charge someone with a crime. If the standard was "well, I think some people might think this person committed a crime", the courts would be more clogged than they are now.

And no, I do not think that forcing someone to spend thousands of $$ to defend themselves as a 'test' is reasonable.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
127. That's how it works in the UK.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 01:45 PM
Mar 2012

If a householder kills an intruder, whatever the circumstances, he can expect to be arrested for murder. People have been sent to prison in the UK who would have been hailed as heroes in the US.

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
123. What gets lost in this discussion...
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 01:14 PM
Mar 2012

Does anybody think Bo Morrison intended harm to the home owner and his family? Even the people so ardently defending the shooting?

It appears that the homeowner was within his rights to shoot Morrison, but does that make it right? We now have a young man dead who was apparently guilty of nothing more than drunken stupidity in trying to hide from the cops.

There is something wrong here. I think it's a lot bigger than this home owner and Bo Morrison. What kind of society are we?

dsc

(53,379 posts)
125. One where we fear criminals
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 01:23 PM
Mar 2012

I have no earthly idea how safe or unsafe that neighborhood is but the facts as laid out are the following. The man decided to call the police on a large party and figured it was likely known he had done so. Very shortly after the break up of the party, which he caused, he hears noises inside his house. He is older than the intruder. The case is sad but the shooting justified.

McCamy Taylor

(19,240 posts)
142. Guns provide an illusion of safety.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 10:08 PM
Mar 2012

They can easily be taken by burglars and turned upon their owners.

For real self defense, nothing beats a pair of dobermen.

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