German home schoolers who claimed persecution NOT going to be deported

[AnalystInParadise]

So, yesterday there was quite a bit of hate directed at parents who home school their kids and at this family from Germany with someone calling them "pathetic wittle cwistians" was the exact term I believe. Surely that was another moment in the intolerance wars some want to wage around here.

But I digress..... Well, looks like our government decided to do the right thing and not send them back to a country where the children could be taken away from the parents due to the parents believing they know what is best for their kids. So our immigration system triumphs again. I would quote Eric Cartman, but don't feel the need to do so. I am just happy our government did the right thing.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-26454988

[AnalystInParadise]

1. I won't bump this again I promise

but the crickets chirping is hysterical............

[rdharma]

2. The right decision? Claims that the German government was persecuting them?

That decision makes our system of granting asylum a farce!

[AnalystInParadise]

3. Why?

Sounds like we exercised judicious use of our laws to keep children with their parents and not taken away.

[rdharma]

5. Don't want to take those children from their psycho-fundie parents!

Do you know what the German education system is like? Persecution? Give me a break!

[AnalystInParadise]

7. Hostility to religion?

How tolerant of you. Fortunately the govt. does not have such a Manichean world view.

[rdharma]

10. Hostility to religion? In the German public schools?

Are you kidding me?

[AnalystInParadise]

9. Ironic isn't it

our government doesn't persecute "psycho religious fundamentalists", it appears Germany might.....

[rdharma]

11. What to you know about the German education system?

Yeah! That's what I thought.

[AnalystInParadise]

12. Our government feels differently

for some reason they seem to think there is something to it. So either A. You know more than our government or B. You are full of shit and angry and letting your hostility show.

Either way, I don't care,

Here's the score

religious liberty: 1

government persecution of home schoolers: 0

Enjoy

[rdharma]

14. No. Our government has granted a stay on their deportation.

So my answer is C. Fundie nut jobs playing the system.

[AnalystInParadise]

15. LMFAO

Well I am still happy, religious freedom wins for now.

[rdharma]

16. Religious freedom...... or making a farce of our system of legitimate asylum?

[AnalystInParadise]

17. You

say potato, I say potahto........

[rdharma]

19. You support religious RWers......

.... I do not.

[AnalystInParadise]

24. I support our government

you seem to not.....

[rdharma]

26. Sure you do.

So do I. Just hate to see govt. resources wasted dealing with these bogus asylum seekers.

[cali]

75. No, we say fuck right wing religious zealots. pretty universal sentiment here, hon.

[cali]

30. grab a clue. they were DENIED asylum. period.

initially granted it. overturned by the appeals court. SC refused to hear it leaving the appeals court decision as the last word. simple really.

[AnalystInParadise]

38. So are they being deported?

n/t

[yeoman6987]

80. They were going to be jailed

They were going to be jailed in Germany if they went back for Homeschooling. That is pretty bad if you ask me. Now they can Homeschool freely without worrying about going to jail. Had Germany not force their parents not to homeschool, I would agree with you. This was a good decision that you are clearly not going to agree with me over. However, we agree on plenty so no biggie.

[DustyJoe]

4. Good Call not to Deport

If INS allows souther border crossings claims of asylum on the reasoning of fear and persecution, the same allowance for this family IMO is the correct call.
.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/17/asylum-seekers-border_n_3772734.html

[rdharma]

6. Hate folks from Mexico, DustyJoe?

Why?

[AnalystInParadise]

8. How does his answer correspond to hatred?

If it is good for one ethnic or religious group it should be good for another. Unless they are a group you hate, right?

[rdharma]

13. No. Their reason for claiming asylum "for religious reasons" is a farce. nt

[AnalystInParadise]

18. That is YOUR opinion

Our government feels differently

[rdharma]

20. The government needs to react to legal appeals........

... no matter how ridiculous.

[AnalystInParadise]

21. And they reacted favorably

so

[cali]

33. no our government did NOT NOT NOT grant them asylum.

from your link

Some US legal analysts say it is no surprise the asylum request was denied.

"Germany is a democratic country and it chooses to make attendance in schools mandatory. It offers many choices of school - Christian, Jewish, Muslim, private, public - every imaginable sort," Professor David Abraham, an expert on immigration and citizenship law at the University of Miami School of Law, told the BBC in November.

"What they can't call persecution is the obligation to attend school with other children. That's an important social value that the German legislature has adopted."

Following Tuesday's decision, Mr Abraham added that US immigration officials were focusing their attention on deporting criminals.

[AnalystInParadise]

39. So are they being deported?

[cali]

43. that's not the point. in fact that's irrelevant to the legal issue that

was in question.

[AnalystInParadise]

49. It was something

you were taking great pleasure in with your contempt for the poor wittle cwistians......You said it dude. Not me.

[cali]

74. No honey, I was taking great pleasure in the christian right wing being slapped down

in the courts

I still am, sweetheart.

[DustyJoe]

22. OMG

Where on earth did you get that from my reply ?

Truth be known I have lived in NM since 1955, 3 kids, 10 grandkids and countless cousins, nieces and nephews. And with anyone living in a diverse state like NM have quite a few loved ones named Chavez, Sanchez etc. And little 'half brown' munchkins running around our family gatherings. Love them all so your innuendo just doesn't fly with me.

But, I do agree with treating the German families the same as the Mexican families. Nothing more, nothing less.

[rdharma]

23. There is no religious persecution in Germany......

Your comparison is bizarre!

[AnalystInParadise]

25. Equality is bizarre???

Man your hatred of Christians is out of control. For the record I agree with DustyJoe completely says this Hispanic Texan who homeschools his own kids(well my wife does).

[rdharma]

27. Oh, I believe you and Dusty Joe.......

.... why would you make things up on the internets?

Come on....y'all are way too transparent!

[AnalystInParadise]

28. Your hatred is

nearly pathological. Wow.

I am applauding our government protecting religious liberty,a key fact of the founding of our government and all you can do is spew hatred. I am for protecting all rights of everyone, you seem to not feel the same.

[rdharma]

32. No rights were protected. No rights were violated.

Brainwash your kids about religion at home ...... but do it on your own time..... without depriving them of their normal education.

[AnalystInParadise]

48. My kids are now in college

I brainwashed them with good education. But hey keep showing that hatred and intolerance.

[rdharma]

50. Keep throwing out your straw man arguments.

They don't bother me.

[AnalystInParadise]

51. Ok?

huh that is weird.

[rdharma]

59. You don't know what a straw man argument is? nt

[AnalystInParadise]

84. Yes

I have just never met someone with such a pathological hatred of Christians.

[rdharma]

88. Have you stopped beating your wife? nt

[AnalystInParadise]

94. LOL

You are fun, I rarely meet people so full of hate.

[rdharma]

96. Why do you support and love neo-nazis?

There's just something wrong with that.

[snooper2]

77. Wrap your children in a blanket of mythology

It'll be a crutch for them later in life, just FYI!




Always here to help!

[AnalystInParadise]

85. My daughter

is a Physical Anthropology major, what the hell does that mean? Being Christian does not mean being ignorant of science, but thanks for playing

[COLGATE4]

68. What conceivable "fear" or "persecution" are these

German fundies suffering? BTW, people crossing the southern border who actually fear for their lives and who have been subjected to genuine persecution are denied asylum every day of the week. It's usually a very difficult case to make and Immigration Judges are notorious in not accepting most claims. I strongly suspect that had they been a little darker or from some place other than Western Europe the initial asylum petition wouldn't have been granted.

[cali]

29. contemptible mischaracterization of my op

there was no hate directed at the family, just mockery of the wingnuts who support them. they are championed by the right

and yes, I think it's heaping pile of dog shit to claim persecution over this when people really do need asylum- people who are tortured or imprisoned or killed.

here's the op title of my piece:

Delicious Wingnut Outrage: Team Obama wins fight to have Christian home-school family deported

Here's what I wrote: poor wittle persecuted Cwistians.

Do you actually believe Christians are persecuted in Germany or here- as the right wing always claims?

the first part- before the colon is mine. The other part is Fox News. Note how they characterize it. That's what I was pointing out and calling out

Oh and if you want to quote me ask me first or else it's a call out. and try quoting people correctly. it's not hard. all you have to do is check to see if you're correct or not. YOU were not.

and no, I don't think those are grounds for asylum, but I really don't care on way or another if they stay. It was the legal aspect that I thought was of some importance.

[AnalystInParadise]

31. Sorry

I had no idea this was about you. I just remember the context, not who said it. I mean no offense, but I still stand by my belief that the government got this one right.

[cali]

34. aargh. do you not grasp that the SCOTUS Left stand the appeals court

reversal of asylum? Yes, the government got it right. They were denied asylum.

[AnalystInParadise]

40. Are they being deported?

[rdharma]

36. The government had to grant a delay because these wingnuts tied them up in a legal battle.

Amazing what deep pockets these nut jobs have.

[treestar]

35. Prosecutorial Discretion

Just means they are not going to bother with deporting them, even though there is an order.

The rights thing? Persecution means fear of death, not just laws you don't want to obey.

Asylum is for people who will be killed if sent back to their country, or put in jail for their political opinion, without recourse to law.

[cali]

37. I barely ever agree with you, but I do on this.

[DustyJoe]

55. Discretion

In 2011 alone over 20,000 deportation procedings were found eligible for administrative closure thru prosecutorial discretion. This one case is but a drop in a big bucket and not extraordinary other than its publicity.
.
http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts/prosecutorial-discretion-statistical-analysis

[NaturalHigh]

41. I'm glad they get to stay.

Yes, there was a lot of venom in that thread. The OP pretty much set the tone for a hateful thread.

[cali]

45. bullshit the contempt expressed was at the far right religious nuts who

have championed this case.

These folks weren't remotely being subject to persecution in Germany and had no grounds on which to legitimately seek asylum here. and that's what the appeals court held. SCOTUS let stand the appeals court decision.

[NaturalHigh]

47. "poor wittle persecuted Cwistians"

I think your comment speaks for itself with no further explanation needed. As I replied in your thread, I didn't understand the hateful tone of your OP.

[cali]

78. `the comment was ridiculing them for claiming persecution in Germany

and yeah, I have no use for lying piece of shit right wing religious nuts- whether they're christian, jewish, muslim or whatever.

got it?

good.

[NaturalHigh]

83. How do you define "right wing religious nuts"?

Does that include all people of faith? I'm a Christian. Do I qualify as a "right wing religious nut"? What qualifies you to decide if I'm a "poor little persecuted cwistian" (an offensive description)? Do you have some sort of special training?

As far as I know, I've never done anything to you, and neither has the family that is getting to stay in the U.S. Whatever you may think about them, they've never intruded on your rights that I know of.

As I mentioned in another reply, I don't understand the hateful tone of your previous OP. Is your assertion that they should be deported based solely on their Christian faith? Christians can indeed be persecuted.

[AnalystInParadise]

86. This ^

The poster in question has done nothing but antagonize anyone who believes in God with this little stunt. It's irritating but not surprising.

[fairplay]

42. Why Germany does not allow home schools

After wwII, the German government did not want "nazi sympathizers to set up their own schools, like the white "christian" private schools, established in the stupid states, run by white bigots, after the public schools were integrated.

[JVS]

44. A good move, as it promotes the liberties that we enjoy without antagonizing a friendly country.

[cali]

46. Germany is a free country. the decison was correct. the case was bullshit

whether they stay or not is irrelevant from a legal standpoint.

and this was entirely a right wing nut production.

[tandot]

53. thanks, cali

this is driving me nuts.

There is so much evil in the world and people who are persecuted who deserve to be protected here.

This is not one of it.

[tandot]

52. OH ... PLEASE ...

Germany has religious education in their Public Schools ... first it was catholic and protestant, but they added Islam to it. They coordinate with other religion to educate students in public schools on all the different religion around the world.

Parents have to opt out if they don't want their kids to learn about it. Then they have to attend a class called "Ethics"

According to the article:

Some US legal analysts say it is no surprise the asylum request was denied.

"Germany is a democratic country and it chooses to make attendance in schools mandatory. It offers many choices of school - Christian, Jewish, Muslim, private, public - every imaginable sort," Professor David Abraham, an expert on immigration and citizenship law at the University of Miami School of Law, told the BBC in November.

"What they can't call persecution is the obligation to attend school with other children. That's an important social value that the German legislature has adopted."

I grew up in Germany I find this insulting. I actually found the American public schools refreshing. Keep your darn religion out of public schools. If you want your kids to learn about it (or indoctrinate), do it on your OWN time.

I actually want that family investigated to make sure that there is no physical or sexual abuse going on. That is usually the main reason that parents keep their kids isolated and away from other kids or away from the public.

[AnalystInParadise]

54. Our government felt different

End of story.

[tandot]

56. No...it is not the end of the story...they should be investigated to make sure that those poor kids

are not physically or sexually abused. THAT is the law. The most important thing is that the kids are NOT abused in any way.

[AnalystInParadise]

57. Fine

and when the family checks out as normal, will you then put a cork in it? If they are abusing anyone, I will gladly admit I am wrong, will you do the same?

[tandot]

58. Yes, if it turns out that none of the kids are physically or sexually abused

I'll stop complaining.

However, I still think that kids should not be isolated from other kids.

Live and let live? Yes! But the health and well-being of children must absolutely come first.

[AnalystInParadise]

60. My kids were home schooled

and never set foot in a public school. Both are in college right now and have done extremely well and have never had trouble with the law, drugs or alcohol and my son has a girlfriend of two years that is Pre-Law. I reject the premise that kids must socialized in our current culture. Mine had limited socializing through sports, church and local community theater. Both have thanked me for keeping them out of public school and all the pitfalls there.

[cali]

69. no it did not. stop making shit up and saying that. It's patently false YOU fucking

know it's patently false.

they were DENIED asylum by the government and the administration ACTIVELY opposed granting the whiners asylum and WON.

Making shit up and sticking with that made up pile is really not an admirable tactic.

[thucythucy]

81. Just curious, but if

our government reverses its decision and decides to deport them after all, will; you still be saying, "End of story"?

[YarnAddict]

66. Huh?

I actually want that family investigated to make sure that there is no physical or sexual abuse going on. That is usually the main reason that parents keep their kids isolated and away from other kids or away from the public.

What an incredibly ignorant statement.

[treestar]

76. And if they want to change the German law

They won't be executed or jailed for trying to do that. That's the type of thing asylum is for. This is more fake "persecution" of Christians. Not that it never happens, but that would be other countries, not a European one.

[Duppers]

61. crap. These wackos were living with neighbors of

Last edited Thu Mar 6, 2014, 01:41 PM - Edit history (1)

my mother, next door neighbors in fact. Her next door neighbors and their wacko chreeschen church sponsored them here in the US. This church and members are a frickin cult who shield their children from most all science, popular culture, and global truths. No tv or socializing with children outside the church . Poor kids!

So, yes, I very much disagree.

[AnalystInParadise]

62. Care to give us the church

If it is a cult it should be easy to prove with the internet

[Duppers]

63. There is a quasi-standard definition of the word cult.

What I'd call a cult and what you would more than likely differs. Since this "Christian Church" has over 600,000 in the U.S., it's not considered a cult in a strict sense.

According to wiki: "A cult is a religious group or other organization with deviant and novel beliefs and practices. However, whether any particular group's beliefs are sufficiently deviant or novel enough to be considered a cult is often unclear, and thus establishing a precise definition of cults is problematic."

To cloister children in the fashion they do is cultish to me. And harmful. They use their ideology to explain everything. Plus, all these people are raving, facts-be-damn Republicans.




When one guy sees an invisible man, he's a nut case.
When ten people see him, it's a cult.
When ten million people see him, it's a respected religion.
- Richard Jeni

[progressoid]

90. A church is a building. The people in the building are a cult.

Or did you mean religious denomination vs cult?

[cali]

70. One more time, these whiny wingnuts LOST their bid for asylum. It's a disgusting

Lie to claim they won and the OP knows that.

sniff sniff.

[AnalystInParadise]

87. So they will be deported

when exactly? Yeah not for the remainder of MY Presidents term. Fortunately PBO has people working in his agencies that want to protect religious freedom and keep people from being persecuted in their home countries. Yet another reason to be proud of PBO and the government.

[Duppers]

91. Excuse me but NOT according to ABC News!

Home Schooling German Family Allowed to Stay in US
March 5, 2014
http://abcnews.go.com/US/home-schooling-german-family-allowed-stay-us/story?id=22788876

Why are you accusing me of lying? I do not want these far right-wing wackos to stay in the U.S.

[cali]

93. this is simple, simple stuff. yikes that you and others don't get

They applied for political. asylum on the grounds that they were being persecuted in Germany. They were initially granted asylum. An appeals court reversed that. they appealed that decision to the SCOTUS which refused to hear it, leaving the appeals court decision in place.

[Duppers]

98. thx for being so insulting.

[AnalystInParadise]

95. So their personal beliefs

and religion are enough for you to deport them. How tolerant of you.

[muriel_volestrangler]

64. The whole thing is a publicity stunt by a far right Republican and Christian extremist

The family could have moved to Austria, and home-schooled, without any 'asylum' seeking - a German-speaking country next door. They could have moved to the UK, or several other EU countries, and home-schooled, if they wanted. But instead they moved to the USA so they could hook up with Michael Farris, founder of the Christian extremist Patrick Henry College, and be used by him for publicity. Just search DU for what he's been involved in - blocking ratification of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, and much more:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014333460 "Homosexuals can’t exist at Patrick Henry College"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2646698 "He's an asshole exploiting the HSing community for financial gain ... Michael Farris can kiss this homeschooling mother's ass"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021438145 "A highly influential social conservative in Virginia, Michael Farris, believes that people can contract “chronic Lyme disease” that must be treated with long-term antibiotics. The Center for Disease Control says there is no such thing as “chronic Lyme disease” and “long-term antibiotic treatment for Lyme disease has been associated with serious complications.” "
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021926622 "One of the lesser-known but extremely active opponents of the bill was homeschooling activist Michael Farris.
During an interview with Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council, he claimed that the treaty will prompt the United Nations to ‘get control’ of children with glasses or ADHD and remove them from their families. "

In 1993, Farris ran unsuccessfully for Lieutenant Governor of Virginia and was defeated by Democrat Don Beyer 54-46 percent. However, fellow Republicans George Allen and James Gilmore were elected on the same ballot as Governor and Attorney General, respectively. Farris' close connection to conservative leaders like Jerry Falwell of the former Moral Majority, Pat Robertson of the Christian Coalition and Phyllis Schlafly of the Eagle Forum, as well as his adherence to the Quiverfull movement[2][7] stirred deep-seated feelings about religion and politics. These concerns inflamed by negative ads by Beyer to portray him even more radically, likely caused alienation of enough moderate voters to cause his defeat.[8] Prominent Virginia Republicans like U.S. Senator John Warner supported Beyer.

[cali]

71. Absolutely and thanks for posting that.

[LeftishBrit]

73. Thanks for info! I thought the story did not add up, as they could have far more easily migrated to

another EU country (see my post).

Michael Farris is a truly disgusting character.

[treestar]

79. That's telling too

EU member nation's people can move from one to another and work in another country, too. Austria or Switzerland even have the same language.

[Duppers]

92. Thank you, muriel! nt

[RandiFan1290]

65. Glenn Beck is claiming this as HIS victory

He thinks his hoard of lip strumming robots forced the DHS to fold and cower in fear.

[underpants]

89. I heard him on Tuesday going on about this

When I saw the headline about them not getting deported I rolled my eyes thinking that Beck would take a victory lap and because the DHS rolled over.

[LeftishBrit]

72. From a Europaean perspective...

there is no earthly reason why they would need asylum in the USA. If Germany doesn't allow home-education, there are several other EU countries (including the UK) that do. Migration is unrestricted within the EU, so if it's that important to them to home-educate their kids, they could have moved to another EU country.

So I do wonder what is going on.

ETA: see Muriel_Volestrangler's post no. 64 for some info on the subject!

[yeoman6987]

82. That is very interesting

Now there must be more to the story. I do think that if parents want to Homeschool their children, they should be able too as long as like another poster says there is not any physical abuse. However, now that I know that they could go to England or another group of countries, I wonder what is really going on?

[Sunlei]

97. They went through the system & deferred is better than outright deportation.

Lucky for them their membership in their 'home school group' covers all the legal costs.

I wonder if the deferred status allows the parents to work.