Just a reminder: before George Zimmerman, there was Mr. Joe Horn of Texas

[jpak]

Man Kills Suspects While On Phone With 911

The 911 call came from a Pasadena, Tex., resident, who alerted police to two burglary suspects on a neighbor's property. Before he hung up, two men were dead by his hand.

Joe Horn, 61, told the dispatcher what he intended to do: Walk out his front door with a shotgun.

"I've got a shotgun," Horn said, according to a tape of the 911 call. "Do you want me to stop them?"

"Nope, don't do that - ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?" the dispatcher responded.

<more>

The 911 tapes...

He got away with it...

Joe Horn no billed by grand jury

HOUSTON -- Joe Horn, 62, shot the two men in November after he saw them crawling out the windows of a neighbor's house in the Houston suburb of Pasadena, carrying bags of the neighbor's possessions.

Joe Horn called 911 and told the dispatcher he had a shotgun and was going to kill the men. The dispatcher pleaded with him not to go outside, but Horn confronted the men with a 12-gauge shotgun and shot both in the back.

"The message we're trying to send today is the criminal justice system works," Harris County District Attorney Kenneth Magidson said.

Horn's attorney, Tom Lambright, has said his client believed the two men had broken into his neighbor's home and that he shot them only when they came into his yard and threatened him.

<more>

Castle Law = licence to kill vigilante style.

yup

[Hell Hath No Fury]

1. I remember that very well --

cold-blooded murder, nothing less.

[sadbear]

2. Joe Horn = Free

[ProgressiveProfessor]

3. Would have been no billed without Castle Doctrine anyway

A new item in the news claims that the PD did not file on Zimmerman upon the advice of State Attorney...saying he could not even get a conviction of manslaughter

[jpak]

4. Cold blooded murder and racist too - he thought they were "black"

yup

[jpak]

10. Does the phrase "All White Jury" ring a bell?

In Texas, juries convict black men of capital crimes they didn't commit ALL the time.

Thank the goddess for PCR...

yup

[ProgressiveProfessor]

11. So you claim to know who was on that Grand Jury?

Grand Juries are the DA's lapdogs. Either the DA intentionally blew the presentation or it was one of the rare circumstances where the GJ does not do what the DA asks.

FWIW, I do not believe the Joe Horn case was a valid shooting either.

[Paladin]

5. And Joe Horn Had Support From Our Resident Gun Militants, As Well. (n/t)

[Chuck Bobuck]

6. The horror! The simple act of *not* home invading or burglarizing could have prevented this outcome.

Joe Horn is not a hero. Neither were the dangerous criminals he killed.

[LisaL]

7. Horn was told by 911 operator to NOT go out and confront anyone.

But he did so anyway. People constantly point out that Zimmerman disregarded what 911 operator told him, but apparently that makes no difference in the Horn's case?

[Chuck Bobuck]

8. Advice from an emergency telecommunicator is never legally binding.

If one tells you to wait in your burning house, that the fire dept. will be there shortly, would you wait?

They are not police officers. You know that, right? They are slightly-above-minimum-wage call center workers.

[LisaL]

9. Then its not binding in Zimmerman's case either.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

12. It never was. Those who claimed it was were wrong

However, the jury may well take it into account when considering Zimmerman's state of mind and motives

[BOHICA12]

13. He killed two repeat felons in the commission of a felony ....

when the police couldn't develop a sense of urgency.

Remember the police have no legal obligation to prevent, deter, or discourage crime - or protect the public from crime.

[LisaL]

14. But these people were not stealing from him and his life was not in danger while he was sitting in

his home.

[oldhippie]

18. The laws in Texas are different ......

Use of deadly force is permissible to protect a third person's property.

Folks don't cotton to thieves in Texas.

[LisaL]

21. He can protect his own property with deadly force.

This was not his property.

[oldhippie]

25. As I said, you can protect third person's property ...

Texas Penal Code, Chapter 9 JUSTIFICATION EXCLUDING CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY

Sec. 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if, under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force or deadly force to protect his own land or property and the actor reasonably believes the unlawful interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property

Pretty clear. Granted, most states don't allow this.

[LisaL]

26. Why did his lawyer not argue that it was perfectly legal for him to kill people over

someone else's property? Instead Mr. Horn's defense was that Mr. Horn was acting in self-defense because as he got out of his house the two alleged criminals were running on Mr. Horn's property?

[oldhippie]

27. Because he was legal on both fronts ......

... and his attorney (probably rightly) believed that the Grand Jury would give greater weight to the self defense approach. They did, and no-billed him.

Here in my county, if a homeowner shoots a thief in the act of escaping, the grand jury will more likely shake his hand and buy him a beer. We don't have many thieves around these parts. I've lived here 15 years and I have never even heard of a home invasion or car-jacking in my area. There is an occassional robbery or burglary, but it is generally someone who knows the victim(s) are unarmed.

None of what I have posted here is meant as any defense of Zimmerman. I hope justice gets done.

[BOHICA12]

19. No, they were breaking into his neighbor's house and

stealing from his neighbor. How far did his responsibility go? According to the Grand Jury, it went up to and including shooting the two felons.

Where does your responsibility end?

[Logical]

15. Even fanatical gun fans think this was a really dumb and bad shoot. I am glad this cost him...

over $100,000 to defend himself!!

[LisaL]

16. I don't know why it would cost him anything to defend himsel, since grand jury refused

to indict him. So there never was a trial.

[Logical]

17. He had two attorneys. Many discussions of thousands of dollars in substantial legal fees

[bluestate10]

22. Your post is rightwing, paronoid bullshit.

In general, police agencies across the country perform their job of protecting citizens reasonably well. There are some exceptions. While a person with a gun can hold people that appear to be in commission of a crime, that person has no moral right to act as executioner of the held people, even if those people are career criminals.

I see a tougher call in the case in Wisconsin where a man shot a teen who came onto his porch while running away from cops that were closing down an underaged drinking party. I don't own guns, but even I would be angry and have concerns if a strange person was hiding out on my property and I had no idea of why that person was there or what he was doing. I can see a person shooting an innocent person in darkness in that situation. I can't accept what Zimmerman did, his actions appear to be calculate and criminal.

[BOHICA12]

23. Well we do agree on Zimmerman

... he saw no crime, there was no crowbar, no broken window, and no strangers breaking into a know neighbors house. He shot Treyvon because he was Black and George didn't have the brains to say, "Hey, I'm with the Neighborhood watch - which house are you headed to? Can I give you a ride?"

[Tommy_Carcetti]

24. Untrained, rogue individuals should not be allowed to declare themselves judge and executioner.

Joe Horn was a thug. That the men he shot and killed were--unlike Trayvon Martin--also thugs is of zero consequence in the end.

This trigger happy, uber-libertarian, cowboy/vigalante, shot first and ask questions later, mentality is one of the ugliest, self-defeating forces in America.

Do not let anyone tell you otherwise. The ends do not always justify the means. Especially when the end is not the end forseen by the perpetrator.

That some posters on this thread feel it necessary to defend the human excrement that is Joe Horn in any respect is quite a sad reflection on how far we have to go in this 21st Century.