Thu Mar 6, 2014, 03:37 PM

Laelth (32,014 posts)

Capitalism is NOT a dirty word.

In my world, a liberal is a capitalist who seeks to shield capitalism from its own excesses and who hopes to channel capitalism's productive energy into a system and society that creates wealth for all. Capitalism is certainly better than socialism--i.e. state ownership of all property.

Ultimately, capitalism works, and it works well, but it works better when liberal laws are in place to insure that all citizens benefit from it (and not just the wealthy few at the top).

It is serious error for liberals to disparage capitalism. Liberals are capitalists. We just want a sane, just, and humane capitalism.

-Laelth

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382 replies	Author	Time	Post
Capitalism is NOT a dirty word. (Original post)	Laelth	Mar 2014	OP
Fuck that	NoOneMan	Mar 2014	#1
LOL.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#4
The argument was without merit	NoOneMan	Mar 2014	#11
It doesn't bother me.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#26
To an incredibly weak statement	NoOneMan	Mar 2014	#27
I agree completely with your OP	JaneyVee	Mar 2014	#152
That's it in a nut-shell. Thanks. n/t	Laelth	Mar 2014	#200
It's that "unregulated" capitalism that is the problem.	kentuck	Mar 2014	#233
FDR and LBJ proved that capitalism can, in fact, be regulated.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#345
All FDR and LBJ proved is that capitalism can be regulated TEMPORARILY,	Raksha	Mar 2014	#352
I don't disagree, per se.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#357
agreed. capitalism is about profit over resources	Whisp	Mar 2014	#276
I hear what you're saying Laelth, however,	loudsue	Mar 2014	#2
So trashing it publicly will get the slower students to re-think it and do what exactly?	LionsTigersRedWings	Mar 2014	#12
Change the way this country lets it run rampant over people, the environment,	loudsue	Mar 2014	#22
So you would like to see what to OP talks about, Capitalism with liberal laws in place to	LionsTigersRedWings	Mar 2014	#25
Yep n/t	loudsue	Mar 2014	#46
Won't work	lark	Mar 2014	#74
Have you considered it's the political apparatus and not the economic apparatus that's to blame?	kristopher	Mar 2014	#85
In the future everything not prohibited will be mandatory	Fumesucker	Mar 2014	#223
Mandatory voting is the best tool for ensuring a democracy that functions.	kristopher	Mar 2014	#225
I don't think it would make much if any difference in our propaganda drenched society	Fumesucker	Mar 2014	#235
That is, by FAR, the lesser of two evils.	kristopher	Mar 2014	#237
How do you know it will be "a small fine"?	Fumesucker	Mar 2014	#238
I'm sorry...	kristopher	Mar 2014	#239
You made a statement and now don't want to back it up?	Fumesucker	Mar 2014	#241
No, I don't want to back it up.	kristopher	Mar 2014	#242
I thought Australia was doing quite well with compulsory voting.	Ed Suspicious	Mar 2014	#252
Sorry to burst your bubble, but . . . . Tony Abbott	hatrack	Mar 2014	#322
OK, but what alternative do we propose?	Laelth	Mar 2014	#29
We ARE proposing something as an alternative. Where have you been?	loudsue	Mar 2014	#43
Indeed. I agree with all that you propose.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#81
I thought the original post might have been satire	PATRICK	Mar 2014	#278
Yep, 1950s talking points...	Raksha	Mar 2014	#353
Capitalism would work splendidly if only if weren't what it is.	delrem	Mar 2014	#173
Socialism hasn't actually been tried.	Fantastic Anarchist	Mar 2014	#84
I have read Bakunin, and I have heard that argument many times.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#114
What Republicans seem to forget...	NancyDL	Mar 2014	#130
Well, that's your head WELL above the parapet.	sibelian	Mar 2014	#3
I can withstand the barrage.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#13
The alternative is to take from the rich, and give to the poor ....	oldhippie	Mar 2014	#24
That's the definition of liberalism.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#35
See? You're trashing socialism. It's not black & white. That is why people need to re-think	loudsue	Mar 2014	#32
I am trashing socialism, yes.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#45
I agree with that 100%. So...capitalism doesn't need you to speak up for it...	loudsue	Mar 2014	#51
Capitalism in this country HAS gone bad.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#60
No it DOESN'T mean state ownership of all property, that's COMMUNISM.	sibelian	Mar 2014	#52
The U.K. is a capitalist society.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#64
Yes, OK fair enough, the beef isn't worth chewing.	sibelian	Mar 2014	#71
LOL. Cheers, my friend.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#87
Huh?	tea and oranges	Mar 2014	#180
Perhaps I erred in my wording.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#220
Sigh!	tea and oranges	Mar 2014	#243
"If only capitalism didn't produce capitalists..."....	socialist_n_TN	Mar 2014	#245
I don't know.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#256
Have You Not Noticed the Gov't of Australia's Gone Right Wing?	tea and oranges	Mar 2014	#259
Its not right wing as we know it.	Notafraidtoo	Mar 2014	#277
As in the economic decision to go full speed ahead	tea and oranges	Mar 2014	#284
Australian Liberalism?	Fairgo	Mar 2014	#307
Thanks for the tip.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#309
So you telling me that the Norther European SOCIAL DEMOCRACIES	nadinbrzezinski	Mar 2014	#109
They can call themselves socialist all they want.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#132
But they ARE social democracies	nadinbrzezinski	Mar 2014	#134
Here's what Truman had to say about this distinction.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#228
Need I remind you that was the height of the COLD WAR	nadinbrzezinski	Mar 2014	#230
You are conflating so many terms it is making my head hurt.	blackspade	Mar 2014	#249
Thank you for this clarification.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#255
I say yes, Capitalism is a dirty word.	blackspade	Mar 2014	#261
In fact, I don't disagree with you ... about the word.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#287
Not criticisizing you, but...	OilemFirchen	Mar 2014	#133
What we call it in my econ and int'l business courses	laundry_queen	Mar 2014	#148
I think your definition of socialism might be a LITTLE strict, there...	sibelian	Mar 2014	#34
I think a lot of people throw around the word "socialism" without knowing what it means.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#47
...	sibelian	Mar 2014	#68
You are talking about communism, not socialism.	lark	Mar 2014	#110
Liberal socialism (like they have in some European countries) is just liberalsim.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#117
Hi Laelth...	ReRe	Mar 2014	#150
The right calls everyone to the left of Hitler a socialist.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#288
The OP is just a Semantical Game	LarryNM	Mar 2014	#176
In part, yes.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#222
Is that in the context of ethics or in the context of efficiency?	LanternWaste	Mar 2014	#120
I admit that I am not terribly interested in efficiency.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#138
thanks, Laelth	cali	Mar 2014	#5
Thanks for the kind words, cali.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#37
Capitalism is an unjust means of dividing resources. That seems pretty "dirty" to me.	MNBrewer	Mar 2014	#6
This rests on your notions of "just".	sibelian	Mar 2014	#9
I would agree, and that lack of critical examination has gotten us to this paradise, called	MNBrewer	Mar 2014	#16
Perhaps capitalism is unjust.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#54
Capitalism can be two farmers trading an apple and an orange...	TampaAnimusVortex	Mar 2014	#82
No, that is just trade	cprise	Mar 2014	#96
Someone needs to go back to school	TorchTheWitch	Mar 2014	#248
Sharecropping (a concentration of wealth) has been a major feature of capitalism.	cprise	Mar 2014	#254
I can see why you failed at this in school	TorchTheWitch	Mar 2014	#272
Exactly... Trade IS capitalism...	TampaAnimusVortex	Mar 2014	#372
It works well for some. It has never worked well for all.	Democracyinkind	Mar 2014	#7
Until we have a viable alternative, I see no option but to make the best of it.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#56
I'm still betting on Socialism. nt	Democracyinkind	Mar 2014	#61
No, it's a dirty economic system.	rug	Mar 2014	#8
But what can those of us on the left offer that would be better?	Laelth	Mar 2014	#153
"the system under which we...have prospered"	handmade34	Mar 2014	#194
Its core value of reducing everything, including humans, to a commodity can be explicitly rejected.	rug	Mar 2014	#218
Nah, we should go with communism	LittleBlue	Mar 2014	#10
When exploiting the earth and the people to fashion unnecessary comforts to be...	NoOneMan	Mar 2014	#20
I'll have Green Goddess, please.	OilemFirchen	Mar 2014	#50
See? That's just ignorant as hell. Like it is supposed to be some dogma that everyone can live by.	loudsue	Mar 2014	#36
Thank you. nt	sibelian	Mar 2014	#41
I disagree with your basic definition of socialism....	mike_c	Mar 2014	#14
Unrestrained capitalism is evil, admittedly.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#163
worker control of the means of production was the norm before the industrial revolution....	mike_c	Mar 2014	#174
+1	Starry Messenger	Mar 2014	#234
I have no interest in going back to a medieval economy.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#289
that's not at all what I said, but you're also demonstrating quite a bit of misunderstanding...	mike_c	Mar 2014	#351
I have read Dickens.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#356
+1 n/t	Catherina	Mar 2014	#374
Good luck wih that.	oldhippie	Mar 2014	#15
LOL. Thanks.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#164
Well-regulated capitalism for me, thanks.	Scuba	Mar 2014	#17
Also known as "cocoon-capitalism"	NoOneMan	Mar 2014	#86
Thanks for the post, Scuba.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#347
Your definition of socialism is wrong, too.	MNBrewer	Mar 2014	#18
I got my definition from Marx and Engles, I think.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#166
They didn't coin the term at all. nt	Fantastic Anarchist	Mar 2014	#177
No, they certainlywould didn't coin the term	fishwax	Mar 2014	#189
SOmething like that, yeah.	MNBrewer	Mar 2014	#219
"Liberals are capitalists"	FiveGoodMen	Mar 2014	#19
LOL. Admittedly, I have not met every person who self-identifies as a liberal.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#167
I'm saying that you've chosen to define the word in your own terms	FiveGoodMen	Mar 2014	#168
I was wondering that myself, but I thought maybe I'd just missed the memo.	Dark n Stormy Knight	Mar 2014	#207
Liberalism and socialism are very different things.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#257
Truman said something bad about socialism so liberals are capitalists?	FiveGoodMen	Mar 2014	#260
Umm ...	Laelth	Mar 2014	#264
...at least in Truman's view.	FiveGoodMen	Mar 2014	#282
Capitalism relies on consumption.	upaloopa	Mar 2014	#21
It seems our disagreement, if any, is merely semantic.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#172
Yes I think we define things differently	upaloopa	Mar 2014	#181
Truman, of course, argued that Social Security is what PREVENTED socialism.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#262
Where does social security come in that statement?	upaloopa	Mar 2014	#283
Hmm ...	Laelth	Mar 2014	#286
Who is we?	Starry Messenger	Mar 2014	#23
The "we" in the OP refers to American liberals.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#175
I don't think you, or any one person, can speak for	LWolf	Mar 2014	#362
You are quite right, of course. I stand corrected.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#363
I want a system that benefits the 99%.	LWolf	Mar 2014	#369
Any economic model that commodifies everything is toxic	villager	Mar 2014	#28
I don't disagree with you.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#182
I'm more of a democratic socialist. Though one fellow writer describes it as "Left Libertarian"	villager	Mar 2014	#186
More to the point, there's more than one kind of capitalism...	JHB	Mar 2014	#30
CHRIST!!! Look at 1955!!! I had no bloody idea.	sibelian	Mar 2014	#38
That was only if you made over $1.5 Million per year IN 1955 dollars....	loudsue	Mar 2014	#58
Um...	sibelian	Mar 2014	#72
Actually, that's if you made over $400K in 1955 dollars...	JHB	Mar 2014	#129
Lots of people have no bloody idea	JHB	Mar 2014	#170
Very interesting post, JHB. And you can see how they were able to successfully	loudsue	Mar 2014	#269
If we are to continue to have Capitalism, the Keynesian model is the best.	PotatoChip	Mar 2014	#89
What are liberal laws? I don't see the word 'regulation' in your post, is that what you mean?	Avalux	Mar 2014	#31
Excellent question. Thank you.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#187
Socialism is common ownership of the means of production.	NuclearDem	Mar 2014	#33
So under your system...	MicaelS	Mar 2014	#90
What's the problem with that?	NoOneMan	Mar 2014	#102
The problem is that it is a disincentive to grow the business...	MicaelS	Mar 2014	#143
Why is that a disincentive?	NoOneMan	Mar 2014	#146
Yes! Why do we have to keep batting down RW talking points here?	Dark n Stormy Knight	Mar 2014	#179
...	handmade34	Mar 2014	#195
That attitude is the problem.	NuclearDem	Mar 2014	#204
We can't legislate altruism. n/t	Laelth	Mar 2014	#266
The point is that the use of public resources has to go towards benefiting the whole.	NuclearDem	Mar 2014	#113
You've pointed out a very obvious problem with "capitalism is evil"	sibelian	Mar 2014	#118
+1. n/t	Laelth	Mar 2014	#310
Property is Theft ~ Pierre-Joseph Proudhon	Fantastic Anarchist	Mar 2014	#97
+! n/t	LarryNM	Mar 2014	#169
I like your definition, and I can work with it.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#290
"There is a difference between "private property" and "personal property". Most important post ^ n/t	Catherina	Mar 2014	#375
'liberal' is what created the corrupted system we now live with. nt	xchrom	Mar 2014	#39
Exactly.	Fantastic Anarchist	Mar 2014	#95
Thank You. Like Howard Zinn said, (paraphrasing)	Skeeter Barnes	Mar 2014	#155
What can I say? I am sorry to hear that you feel that way.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#191
If only we still lived in a capitalist society. Alas we live in a plutocracy now.	Rex	Mar 2014	#40
I hear you, but the US is and always has been an oligarchy.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#193
an oligarchy that meets the needs of all the people." is perhaps the most fanciful statement ever	TheKentuckian	Mar 2014	#370
Perhaps.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#373
You think the oligarchs are the office holders? No wonder we have a failure to communicate.	TheKentuckian	Mar 2014	#378
Hmm ...	Laelth	Mar 2014	#379
Well, if the oligarchs are beyond election then I'm missing the "how" to get benign ones	TheKentuckian	Mar 2014	#380
Let me see if I can explain.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#381
That was well written and you know what? I substantially agree with you.	TheKentuckian	Mar 2014	#382
First... that took guts.	1awake	Mar 2014	#42
First, let me say "thank you" for the kind words.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#198
bullshit. Capitalism does not work for the vast majority.	bowens43	Mar 2014	#44
It does with proper controls.	AtheistCrusader	Mar 2014	#139
Some times I pray that armies of true Progressives would become business owners	bluestate10	Mar 2014	#250
Safety nets and labor protections are good for business.	AtheistCrusader	Mar 2014	#271
I thought we had pretty much all agreed on a mixed approach by now?	ForgoTheConsequence	Mar 2014	#48
Not only agreed to it, but implemented it.	OilemFirchen	Mar 2014	#57
Glad you made an OP on this	Pretzel_Warrior	Mar 2014	#49
Sigh. This thread has been a major drain on my mental reserves.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#202
Yep! Glad you did too. Maybe I'll read through more later	Pretzel_Warrior	Mar 2014	#203
So Socialism IS a dirty word?!	Oakenshield	Mar 2014	#53
Not a dirty word; just a fantasy word...	brooklynite	Mar 2014	#59
Bullshit.	Oakenshield	Mar 2014	#63
...and all of those were built within a capitalist system...	brooklynite	Mar 2014	#93
Brilliant argument.	Oakenshield	Mar 2014	#108
I don't say that something that hasn't been tried should never be tried...	brooklynite	Mar 2014	#116
I really had no idea the northern European countries were small settlements	nadinbrzezinski	Mar 2014	#121
Capitalism has been outlawed in Scandinavia?	brooklynite	Mar 2014	#135
Scandinavia IS a social democracy	nadinbrzezinski	Mar 2014	#137
Social Democracy IS NOT SocialISM	brooklynite	Mar 2014	#144
Well I guess my poli sci instructor who used to be CIA	nadinbrzezinski	Mar 2014	#145
I would only be "afraid" if I thought the prospect was real...	brooklynite	Mar 2014	#156
Go join the real world	nadinbrzezinski	Mar 2014	#159
Oh and here from them pesky commies at Foreign Affairs Magazine	nadinbrzezinski	Mar 2014	#231
Nor do I.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#359
So you're afraid. Own up to it and move aside.	Oakenshield	Mar 2014	#126
That's the problem. They haven't existed at a national level.	NuclearDem	Mar 2014	#206
It's not a fantasy word, it's a political PHILOSOPHY, not a hard-wired SYSTEM.	sibelian	Mar 2014	#80
I don't think anyone equates "Public Sector" with "socialism" as an economic structure.	brooklynite	Mar 2014	#98
With the possible exception of the self identifed SOCIALIST politicians	sibelian	Mar 2014	#131
What the OP has described IS SOCIAL DEMOCRACY	nadinbrzezinski	Mar 2014	#101
I cannot disagree. nt	Sarah Ibarruri	Mar 2014	#136
Hi Laelth. I like your posts a lot.	Sarah Ibarruri	Mar 2014	#55
You may be interested in the philosophy of Mutualism.	Fantastic Anarchist	Mar 2014	#105
Cool! I'll check into these. It's looking to me as if capitalism can only lead in one direction	Sarah Ibarruri	Mar 2014	#112
Hello, Sarah.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#205
I am sorry that your thoughts are profane	PowerToThePeople	Mar 2014	#62
Also, theoretically, capitalism will always result in monopolies in the end	laundry_queen	Mar 2014	#157
That's quite true of unregulated capitalism.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#208
I disagree.	laundry_queen	Mar 2014	#253
Deregulated, unchecked capitalism is the real underlying danger.	Initech	Mar 2014	#65
Hear, hear! n/t	Laelth	Mar 2014	#209
Socialism isn't "state ownership of all property."	Fantastic Anarchist	Mar 2014	#66
Hear! Hear! [n/t]	Maedhros	Mar 2014	#185
Ethically, I agree with you about the nature of capitalism.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#215
Distribution of power.	Benton D Struckcheon	Mar 2014	#67
I can't disagree with that. n/t	Laelth	Mar 2014	#291
Good thread and post. Trashing capitalism is cool, particularly if you don't understand it...	Demo_Chris	Mar 2014	#69
So is trashing socialism	nadinbrzezinski	Mar 2014	#122
Yes, the irony of that statement was not lost on me, LOL.	laundry_queen	Mar 2014	#160
People have no idea	nadinbrzezinski	Mar 2014	#162
This message was self-deleted by its author	Laelth	Mar 2014	#293
This message was self-deleted by its author	nadinbrzezinski	Mar 2014	#295
I misunderstood you. My apologies. n/t	Laelth	Mar 2014	#297
I hope you realize	nadinbrzezinski	Mar 2014	#70
Ya beat me to it. n/t	malthaussen	Mar 2014	#92
Perhaps. But it's not socialism.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#292
I will be charitable and use the other term used by experts	nadinbrzezinski	Mar 2014	#301
I will concede that you are the expert on the meaning of words.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#306
Sorry but that is:	DeSwiss	Mar 2014	#73
LOL. Extraordinarily creative response. n/t	Laelth	Mar 2014	#294
I agree. In the public debate, we need to talk more about ETHICAL Capitalism,	Common Sense Party	Mar 2014	#75
Hear, hear! We need to win elections.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#296
Americans are brought up to put capitalism on a pedestal	Maedhros	Mar 2014	#76
I hear you on that.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#298
My suggestion is to transition away from capitalism, rather than accede to it.	Maedhros	Mar 2014	#308
There's no such thing as pure capitalism or pure socialism	kristopher	Mar 2014	#77
"to limit the accumulation and concentration of capital," is essential!	Dark n Stormy Knight	Mar 2014	#199
Seen as a spectrum, this makes sense.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#303
But, when it combines with government to run the country it becomes Fascism. Which is a dirty word.	Tierra_y_Libertad	Mar 2014	#78
BINGO!	Rex	Mar 2014	#83
Yes, that's my understanding of the word fascism, or, "corporatism" as Moussolini called it.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#304
UNREGULATED capitalism cannot be successful.	elleng	Mar 2014	#79
Agreed. Unregulated capitalism leads to Mexico and Somalia.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#361
Ditto,	elleng	Mar 2014	#368
Not buying that.	Rider3	Mar 2014	#88
Good thing I gave it to you for free, then.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#305
You mean like these Liberals?	Zorra	Mar 2014	#91
Um ... no.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#267
I have always liked you Laelth -	TBF	Mar 2014	#94
Thank you for the kind words.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#311
It seems the banksters didn't get the message.	Cleita	Mar 2014	#99
Socialism, or regulation to achieve social goals.	riqster	Mar 2014	#119
If what you call socialism is what I call liberalism, then I agree.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#312
Also -	TBF	Mar 2014	#100
I think history has proven that we CAN regulate capitalism.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#313
Were they "advances" though?	TBF	Mar 2014	#324
Indeed. That is the question.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#328
Yes, that is spot on re purpose of liberalism.	TBF	Mar 2014	#344
Agree completely with the OP.	riqster	Mar 2014	#103
Yes, he does, and thanks. n/t	Laelth	Mar 2014	#314
NP	riqster	Mar 2014	#319
It is to me.	johnp3907	Mar 2014	#104
To be honest, it is to most Americans I know.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#316
I'm a liberal and I say capitalism sucks.	Vashta Nerada	Mar 2014	#106
Fine, but it's not terribly useful to make that argument, is it?	Laelth	Mar 2014	#317
Capitalism is what's wrong with the country.	Vashta Nerada	Mar 2014	#346
Agree.	lumberjack_jeff	Mar 2014	#107
When capital controls government, we call that fascism.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#318
Problem is, capitalism is based on a fundamental flaw...	malthaussen	Mar 2014	#111
That is a very serious problem, I agree.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#320
I have always considered myself a liberal capitalist.	closeupready	Mar 2014	#115
Same here. Thanks for the response. n/t	Laelth	Mar 2014	#321
There is a couple of decent posts on DU regarding David Simon.	fleabiscuit	Mar 2014	#123
I'm with you L, I've got no problem with that economic system	tech3149	Mar 2014	#124
Agreed. Unrestrained, laissez-faire capitalism bites.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#329
It's a dirty word when America decides it's policy is to promote it by murder.	Spitfire of ATJ	Mar 2014	#125
I can't argue with that. n/t	Laelth	Mar 2014	#330
True. Unchecked, capitalism leads to a situation ...	NancyDL	Mar 2014	#127
Hear, hear! Well said.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#331
Tell that to Exxon Valdez survivors.	raven mad	Mar 2014	#128
Accidents never happen in non-Capitalist systems?	brooklynite	Mar 2014	#147
+2000!	raven mad	Mar 2014	#190
The Exxon Valdez spill was an avoidable accident, neccessary equipment was left	Bluenorthwest	Mar 2014	#315
No, but it is unsustainable. nt	redqueen	Mar 2014	#140
Hard to say, but we're stuck with it for the moment, I think.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#332
Unfettered Capitalism is, though.	liberalmuse	Mar 2014	#141
You can tell that to the children of America that died for a few table scraps.	Rex	Mar 2014	#142
One of those kids could have been my dad. He went down into the	Cleita	Mar 2014	#236
If capitalism is so great why does it need to be regulated?	fasttense	Mar 2014	#149
....	handmade34	Mar 2014	#197
So the system you want needs no regulation?	JoePhilly	Mar 2014	#216
That's actually why state socialism has yet to succeed.	joshcryer	Mar 2014	#265
The system I want needs no regulation to prevent the rich from abusing the 99%.	fasttense	Mar 2014	#279
I think we're much better off today than most Americans during the Gilded Age.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#341
But capitalism caused the Gilded Age as much as it has caused the current crisis.	fasttense	Mar 2014	#371
capitalism is dirty, filthy, unfair	heaven05	Mar 2014	#151
Laelth, a sane, just, and humane capitalism appears to be out of our reach.	Enthusiast	Mar 2014	#154
I don't disagree.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#339
check out Gar Alperovitz's "What then is to be done" about democratic ownership	zazen	Mar 2014	#158
Thanks for the link.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#211
But that idealized capitalism is a chimera, it has never existed.........	marmar	Mar 2014	#161
Because it's a contradiction in terms. nt	delrem	Mar 2014	#178
No, 'socialism' doesn't mean state ownership of all property.	delrem	Mar 2014	#165
I am open to discussing your definition of socialism as soon as you produce it. n/t	Laelth	Mar 2014	#224
Do your own work. nt	delrem	Mar 2014	#226
I'll let Harry S. Truman speak for me on this one.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#229
yes, I'm sure you feel righteous in your affirmations.	delrem	Mar 2014	#244
"Liberal" in the USA is not the same as globally.	joshcryer	Mar 2014	#171
Well,. there is that too	nadinbrzezinski	Mar 2014	#183
Capitalism fails without socialist reforms/checks	fishwax	Mar 2014	#184
Those programs have been called "socialist."	Laelth	Mar 2014	#227
nah, they were socialist	fishwax	Mar 2014	#247
Capitalism is based on profiting off of other people	frwrfpos	Mar 2014	#188
It is sad watching someone get socialism and communism mixed up.	Rex	Mar 2014	#192
That slur was particularly unkind. n/t	Laelth	Mar 2014	#210
No offense, but it is true. I see that mistake made all the time here in Texas by RWingers.	Rex	Mar 2014	#212
It's all good.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#325
I see that now and appreciate the elaboration, which makes (for me) your OP make a lot more sense.	Rex	Mar 2014	#326
If I were to re-write the OP now, I'd do a much better job.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#327
Seems like a good time to post this. Didn't see it posted in this thread yet.	redqueen	Mar 2014	#213
I've given your exact explanation almost to right wingers	treestar	Mar 2014	#196
I know. Their understanding of political theory is often limited.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#201
From what I read above, some on the left might lop off your head for daring ...	JoePhilly	Mar 2014	#214
Thanks for the moral support and for the kind words. n/t	Laelth	Mar 2014	#323
As with the judiciary, there are two systems...	WhaTHellsgoingonhere	Mar 2014	#217
Is what we currently have "capitalism"?	Faryn Balyncd	Mar 2014	#221
Killer-good post.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#333
Are you familiar with the work of Charles M. Kelly, Laelth?	Faryn Balyncd	Mar 2014	#348
Actually, no. I was not familiar with his work.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#358
I mostly agree with you. It the fetishizing of unfettered capitalism that creates economic chaos	Bucky	Mar 2014	#232
Capitalism may not be a dirty word but I'm not a liberal	jimlup	Mar 2014	#240
Your understanding of capitalism is flawed	blackspade	Mar 2014	#246
Agree with you on almost everything.	NuclearDem	Mar 2014	#258
I was trying to use modern terminology for 'socialism'	blackspade	Mar 2014	#263
I think you made up those definitions on the fly.	lumberjack_jeff	Mar 2014	#268
Wrong in what way?	blackspade	Mar 2014	#270
There's no need for "regulation" in a socialist economy.	lumberjack_jeff	Mar 2014	#280
You're confusing socialist and state capitalist.	NuclearDem	Mar 2014	#281
I don't like your definitions, for reasons expressed above, but yes.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#334
This has been a very stimulating conversation actually.	blackspade	Mar 2014	#349
Capitalism is a practice, not a belief system.	Deep13	Mar 2014	#251
I hear you, and I am aware of Marx's use of the word.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#335
ownership means control and dominion.	Deep13	Mar 2014	#355
Sheesh	MFrohike	Mar 2014	#273
Perhaps, but context is relevant here.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#338
Oh, I got the context	MFrohike	Mar 2014	#340
Feel free to hide the thread if you don't like it.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#342
Sigh	MFrohike	Mar 2014	#354
The problem is that any criticism of capitalism is considered communistic by people who love	liberal_at_heart	Mar 2014	#274
All talk about the success of capitalism is based on a small exceptional period	TheKentuckian	Mar 2014	#275
That's like saying slavery is not the problem, it just needs better regulation.	grahamhgreen	Mar 2014	#285
Most people don't even know the meaning	RobertEarl	Mar 2014	#299
It's often forgotten that Liberalism is a capitalist ideology.	WatermelonRat	Mar 2014	#300
Quite.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#343
No, it's a clean word for a dirty system.	JackRiddler	Mar 2014	#302
It promotes a zero sum mentality that is detrimental to human developement.	idendoit	Mar 2014	#336
Social democracy like they have in Western Europe is basically the best thing that's been tested...	Hippo_Tron	Mar 2014	#337
Speak for yourself! In my world, capitalism IS a dirty word.	Raksha	Mar 2014	#350
In my book, Sweden is not a socialist country.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#360
Sweden uses a capitalist economic model	soflo80	Mar 2014	#364
Sadly, we do not have a well-regulated, fair free market economy	arcane1	Mar 2014	#365
+1 to soflo80. n/t	Laelth	Mar 2014	#367
It's "The 'C' Word"	AgingAmerican	Mar 2014	#366
When our "capitalists" lose money, our government runs in to bail them out. That's not "capitalism"	Romulox	Mar 2014	#376
You'll get no argument from me on that.	Laelth	Mar 2014	#377

Response to Laelth (Original post)

Thu Mar 6, 2014, 03:40 PM

NoOneMan (4,795 posts)

Capitalism is NOT a dirty word.

1. Fuck that

4. LOL.

11. The argument was without merit

26. It doesn't bother me.

27. To an incredibly weak statement

152. I agree completely with your OP

200. That's it in a nut-shell. Thanks. n/t

233. It's that "unregulated" capitalism that is the problem.

345. FDR and LBJ proved that capitalism can, in fact, be regulated.

352. All FDR and LBJ proved is that capitalism can be regulated TEMPORARILY,

357. I don't disagree, per se.

276. agreed. capitalism is about profit over resources

2. I hear what you're saying Laelth, however,

12. So trashing it publicly will get the slower students to re-think it and do what exactly?

22. Change the way this country lets it run rampant over people, the environment,

25. So you would like to see what to OP talks about, Capitalism with liberal laws in place to

46. Yep n/t

74. Won't work

85. Have you considered it's the political apparatus and not the economic apparatus that's to blame?

223. In the future everything not prohibited will be mandatory

225. Mandatory voting is the best tool for ensuring a democracy that functions.

235. I don't think it would make much if any difference in our propaganda drenched society

237. That is, by FAR, the lesser of two evils.

238. How do you know it will be "a small fine"?

239. I'm sorry...

241. You made a statement and now don't want to back it up?

242. No, I don't want to back it up.

252. I thought Australia was doing quite well with compulsory voting.

322. Sorry to burst your bubble, but . . . . Tony Abbott

29. OK, but what alternative do we propose?

43. We ARE proposing something as an alternative. Where have you been?

81. Indeed. I agree with all that you propose.

278. I thought the original post might have been satire

353. Yep, 1950s talking points...

173. Capitalism would work splendidly if only if weren't what it is.

84. Socialism hasn't actually been tried.

114. I have read Bakunin, and I have heard that argument many times.

130. What Republicans seem to forget...

3. Well, that's your head WELL above the parapet.

13. I can withstand the barrage.

24. The alternative is to take from the rich, and give to the poor ....

35. That's the definition of liberalism.

32. See? You're trashing socialism. It's not black & white. That is why people need to re-think

45. I am trashing socialism, yes.

51. I agree with that 100%. So...capitalism doesn't need you to speak up for it...

60. Capitalism in this country HAS gone bad.

52. No it DOESN'T mean state ownership of all property, that's COMMUNISM.

64. The U.K. is a capitalist society.

71. Yes, OK fair enough, the beef isn't worth chewing.

87. LOL. Cheers, my friend.

180. Huh?

220. Perhaps I erred in my wording.

243. Sigh!

245. "If only capitalism didn't produce capitalists..."....

256. I don't know.

259. Have You Not Noticed the Gov't of Australia's Gone Right Wing?

277. Its not right wing as we know it.

284. As in the economic decision to go full speed ahead

307. Australian Liberalism?

309. Thanks for the tip.

109. So you telling me that the Norther European SOCIAL DEMOCRACIES

132. They can call themselves socialist all they want.

134. But they ARE social democracies

228. Here's what Truman had to say about this distinction.

230. Need I remind you that was the height of the COLD WAR

249. You are conflating so many terms it is making my head hurt.

255. Thank you for this clarification.

261. I say yes, Capitalism is a dirty word.

287. In fact, I don't disagree with you ... about the word.

133. Not criticisizing you, but...

148. What we call it in my econ and int'l business courses

34. I think your definition of socialism might be a LITTLE strict, there...

47. I think a lot of people throw around the word "socialism" without knowing what it means.

68. ...

110. You are talking about communism, not socialism.

117. Liberal socialism (like they have in some European countries) is just liberalsim.

150. Hi Laelth...

288. The right calls everyone to the left of Hitler a socialist.

176. The OP is just a Semantical Game