Getting decidedly touchy in Eastern Ukraine. Blackwater (Xe) is reported to be on the ground!

[another_liberal]

Popular uprising looming in eastern Ukraine.

Protests against the self-proclaimed government in Kiev continue in eastern regions of Ukraine. Thousands-strong gatherings in Donetsk and Lugansk are rallying in support of the Russian language and holding a referendum on the federalization of Ukraine.

In Donetsk, the city that once used to be the stronghold of the ousted President Viktor Yanukovich, people are protesting against the new governor appointed by Kiev last Sunday. he appointee is Ukrainian oligarch, billionaire Sergey Taruta, the owner of ISD, one of the biggest mining and smelting companies in the world, he also owns the Donetsk-based Metallurg Football Club. The oligarch governor failed to come to Donetsk immediately after the appointment, so demonstrators have chosen a “people’s governor” of their own, the leader of the ‘National levy’ Pavel Gubarev advocating setting a referendum that might ask the citizens of Donetsk region about reunification with Russia. The ‘National levy’ also started collecting signatures to conduct referendum on allegiance of the region.

During this week the regional administration building in Donetsk changed hands many times, with either the ‘National levy’ or pro-Kiev forces declaring capture of the authority headquarters. Several videos allegedly made in downtown Donetsk on March 5 exposed that armed pro-Kiev forces had come to Donetsk, as a group of unidentified men in military outfits and equipped with Russian AK assault rifles and American М4А1 carbines were securing protection of some pro-Kiev activists amidst anti-government popular protests.

Later, Rossiya 1 TV channel made an assumption that these people could be from a group of several hundred mercenaries that allegedly arrived to Kiev recently. Rossiya 1 1 maintained that mercenaries work for the notorious Academi (formerly known as Blackwater and Xe Services), a privately owned American security services provider that employ over 20,000 guns for hire. But even the appearance of mercenaries in the center of Donetsk did not stop the citizens from protesting against self-proclaimed government in Kiev.

(snip)

Read more at: http://rt.com/news/popular-uprising-eastern-ukraine-314/

[ChisolmTrailDem]

1. RT is the source. nt

[another_liberal]

3. You care less about Blackwater being involved in Ukraine . . .

Than you do your dislike of RT? That is exceedingly strange to me.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

12. That's funny, I'm looking at my comment and I don't see where I said I care less about anything.

What is exceedingly strange to me is that you are using a source that was just rejected by one of its own anchors for catapulting Putin's propaganda.

Blackwater/Xe is a mercenary group. Where mercenaries are called to work, they usually go. But because RT is the source, we can't know for sure. From your post:

Later, Rossiya 1 TV channel made an assumption that these people could be from a group of several hundred mercenaries that allegedly arrived to Kiev recently. Rossiya 1 1 maintained that mercenaries work for the notorious Academi (formerly known as Blackwater and Xe Services), a privately owned American security services provider that employ over 20,000 guns for hire.

Yea, it's hard to care about something if it's just an assumption and something could be happening.

[another_liberal]

51. I will use any source which will possibly tell me something I don't know.

I'm not afraid of any source lying to me. I will read it and judge for myself whether it has value. In fact, I pity anyone who is so unsure of their own intellect that they will avoid sources of information just because those sources might make them reconsider their preconceived ideas. That is truly sad.

[Cha]

66. That one puts words in your mouth.

[malaise]

37. +1,000

This Ukraine coup has been quite a revelation to me

[Pretzel_Warrior]

39. your calling it a coup has been quite a revelation to all of us

[go west young man]

67. Definition of coup d'etat

Sudden overthrow, often violent, of an existing government by a group of conspirators. Coups are most common in countries with unstable governments and in countries with little experience of successful democracy. Their success depends on surprise and speed. Coups rarely alter a nation's fundamental social and economic policies or significantly redistribute power.

It was a coup.

[Fumesucker]

79. ...

[another_liberal]

80. I have watched our government organize these things time and again . . .

I can't begin to tell you how much it angers and disillusions me. A South American leader once said that the only country in the World which does not have to fear a coup is the United States, because there is no U. S. embassy there to organize the takeover.

[malaise]

83. That simple

It was a coup and there are some who believe that because they say it's legitimate, it was not a coup.
Times have changed. It is almost comical to hear interests saying that their takeover is legal but the other one is not. NATO has simply overreached and will soon discover that fact.
The Reagan/Thatcher New World Order is over and the neo-cons can thank themselves and Bushco for that. THE NSA should also take a bow.

[another_liberal]

85. As to your point about the NSA . . .

When a "Security" agency is as lackluster as the NSA was about their own internal security, they should not be at all surprised if some out-sourced private contractor hire makes off with the goods on them. What amazes me is that Snowden didn't just sell it all to a foreign power and stay under cover, but instead gave it to us, the people, for free!

[dipsydoodle]

5. Aside from which Sky News reports, on the ground,that Serbians are there.

Reported elsewhere too

“Our aim is to support the Russian people in the name of the Serbian people,” a Serbian volunteer named Milutin Malisic said.

“We are representing Chetnik movement, which is similar to the Russian Cossacks,” he told the Russian agency Itar Tass.

Malisic, who says his particular group of fighters is called "the Wolves", says they arrived in Crimea on the invitation of Russian fighters - and wanted to repay the Russians for their support for Serbia in the Balkan wars of the 1990s.

“During the wars in Yugoslavia, a lot of volunteers fought on the Serbian side, so we, as their brothers, have decided to help them. That is why we are here,” Malisic continued.

It is not clear how many Serbs have headed for Crimea.

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/serbian-fighters-head-to-crimea

[Pretzel_Warrior]

13. So foreign terrorists are flocking to Crimea in support of Putin

That doesn't help your case much.

I think you just gave Obama excuse to use drones.

[dipsydoodle]

16. Supports the argument

that they are not all Russian troops on the ground there.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

18. Maybe not now. Serbians never miss an opportunity to

Get in on a genocide.

[malaise]

38. What is Blackwater?

Plueeeez

[go west young man]

69. Now your advocating for drone use.

Must be confusing being you.

[another_liberal]

81. This report is about Blackwater types acting in support of the "Oligarch" recently appointed . . .

As governor by the so-called "interim government" in Kiev. Did you even read the article before beginning to complain about it?

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. When I see things I find suspect in any of the propaganda outlets

That includes the NYT and BBC at this point, I do a google search. Sometimes you will get confirmation from the in this case, western counter narratives.

Conflict means all media is suspect.

[Ichingcarpenter]

34. all media is suspect.

Of telling the truth and telling a lie and then again half truths.


DU has shown countless times how media is manipulated.

I think Iraq has shown us that.



Here's a historical fact

The US hero John Paul Jones
fought for the Cathrine the great of Russia to win the Crimea against the Turks.


The Crimea Wars in 1850/ 60s were instrumental on them selling Alaska to the US.

XE in Crimea? wouldn't surprise me
they are everywhere if the monies are there. Isn't there oil in the Black Sea?
they could be paid by anyone with enough bucks such as oil companies or governments.

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. Serbian volunteers are far more likely

It's a language thing. Russians to call them Mercs, yup also fits.

[Ichingcarpenter]

40. My daughter's boyfriend is Serbian

Serbian and Russian/Ukrainian are NOT mutually intelligible languages. Although they are all Slavic languages, and there is indeed a lot of similarities both in grammar and vocabulary, I personally believe that the greatest obstacle is the pronounciation. While Serbian is a tonal language the other two are not, and therefore the accentuation differs to a significant degree. One simply does not expect that words (which can be similar or even the same in writing) are pronounced so differently, which is often the case.


For a comparison of Serbian with Russian and Ukrainian, one has to have rather good knowledge of all of the three languages. I can just say that for some things, Serbian is sometimes more similar to Russian, and for some other things to Ukrainian.

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. It is geography, interlocking history, and all that

And the fact that people in Europe, on average, speak two languages, some even four and five.

Academii recruits, or Xe, I doubt many speak anything but English, or know shit about that common history.

I will be blunt, total war (this truly has that potential) sucks for business if you are a merc. The last ten years have really been pretty low intensity. And when they got close to higher, the marines did the fighting, not Mercs.

[sharp_stick]

2. I really wish people would inform us in

the subject line that the source is rt.com.

I heard the US is about to unleash the ship they found in Roswell back in the 50's. That'll show them Ruskies.

[another_liberal]

4. You care more about if it is from RT News . . .

Than the fact it reports on Blackwater being active in Ukraine?

I can only shake my head.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

7. Yes. In case you haven't noticed, RT is full of shit

Your continued linking of such suckage makes you highly suspect in my book.

[dipsydoodle]

10. Incase you hadn't bothered checking - no its not.

Please highlight what's not factual here :http://rt.com/news/line/2014-03-07/

[sharp_stick]

14. Nice

going for the "Now prove a negative" here line or your full of shit.

Well done, it's just too bad that most people know about this little scam now.

[dipsydoodle]

19. Which doesn't answer the question

You don't need to provide links to the contrary - just say which headers are untrue.

[geek tragedy]

21. the only reason people link to Rt.com is that it publishes pro-Russia propaganda

that authentic news organizations won't touch.

It is an organ of the Russian government and no credible person claims it's credible

[go west young man]

71. In some sense your partly right for once.

Just like CNN it's partly run by government stooges. Unlike CNN they do actually do investigative reporting and hold off on the water skiing squirrels. I've seen some crazy shit from both sides but RT is definitely more entertaining and a lot of their reporting matches what many of us here at DU used to rally around. For example, marijuana legalization, GM crops, insecticides, fracking, Abu Ghraib, The Iraq war, stolen US elections, the Gulf spill, bugging the UN....that kind of stuff.

I will say their morning shows are as bad as the ones in the US. Just crap opinions. Their other shows can be much more entertaining and informative. And Max is pretty funny if you like financial madness. I'm pretty sure he gets high as a kite before he goes on air.

[Bluenorthwest]

48. The article in the OP does not even make assertions, but assumptions.

The bit about XE:
"Later, Rossiya 1 TV channel made an assumption that these people could be from a group of several hundred mercenaries that allegedly arrived to Kiev recently. Rossiya 1 1 maintained that mercenaries work for the notorious Academi"

'assumption' 'allegedly' and 'maintained'. One can not judge the factual correctness of an assumption about an allegation that is being maintained by a media outlet.

[another_liberal]

47. "Suspect" of what?

Are you accusing me of something?

[sharp_stick]

11. Yes I do

I'd like to know if the latest BatBoy story is by the Weekly World News or Science magazine. One is full of shit and the other might pique some actual interest.

[chrisa]

23. I used to like that paper before it became World Net Daily

[Maedhros]

30. The prudent thing to do is to read the post, think critically about it, and place it in context

with other reports.

Even if RT is acting as a propaganda outlet, it is informative to understand what they are reporting in order to understand why they are reporting it - it gives one insight into the propaganda strategy.

Reading and analyzing something does not require that one believe it, and dismissing reports out-of-hand because of prejudice toward the source is not optimal. Exposing one's self only to a limited list of pre-approved sources is equivalent to donning metaphorical blinders.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

41. if that higher level of rational analysis were taking place, you'd have a point

but it is not. it is mere regurgitation of RT (Putin) propaganda as fact.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Given I find all media, yes that includes the NYT suspect...

That cover you have could very well be the NYT and Judith miller.

I would, wrongfully of course, expect people here to be a tad more sophisticated and know that the google can give you several narratives, from several propaganda outlets, like sky tv, which mentions Serbian volunteers, and then you can make heads or tails. RT mentioned Mercs, they did not mention Blackwater. Sky mentions Serbian volunteers, more likely given geography and spheres of interests.

Of course a total war (which this has the potential) sucks for a mercenary business.

Assuming Blackwater is not RT, it is the OP. It has to do with the last ten years. For the record, Blackwater is the best known, but hardly the only merc company at play and emerging from the mess in Iraq. Hell, there are a few South African companies that precede them. Suffice it to say, Serbian volunteers, which from moscows POV are Mercs, is hardly surprising.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

44. I'm more of a Lexis Nexis, ProQuest, Factiva, and AccuNet/AP Multimedia archives

among others.

[Brother Buzz]

46. RT News has crossed Blackwater and XE out from their 'Stylebook'....

unless it's for Double Super Secret Background. They use Academi these days....

http://rt.com/news/popular-uprising-eastern-ukraine-314/


Serbian volunteers? Volunteers? Academi, formerly Blackwater or Xe has a history of hiring Serbs.

[Blue_Tires]

6. Who's footing the bill? Those Bilgewater goons aren't cheap hires...

[Pretzel_Warrior]

8. They go to highest bidder, so probably Yunukovych

He's loaded.

[go west young man]

73. The mercs would be on the opposite side.

So why would he pay for them? Couple that with I don't think they are US mercs. The Serbian theory or Ukranian soldiers makes the most sense.

[another_liberal]

82. Whomever they are . . .

This report says the Blackwater types are in Donetsk to support the newly appointed "Oligarch" governor, who was sent by the so-called "interim government" in Kiev. He is very wealthy and may have paid for them himself. Whomever they are, they were deployed to help control the local, ethnic Russians, not to support Yanukovich.

[another_liberal]

68. In Donetsk, at least, it seems to be a very wealthy "Oligarch" . . .

He was just appointed regional governor by the "interim government" in Kiev and seems to feel he needs some armed muscle to help keep the ethnic Russians in line.

[geek tragedy]

9. rt.com RAWKS! Long live Putin! nt

[Cali_Democrat]

32. Putin uber alles!!!

[another_liberal]

61. I try to explore any source which will tell me something I don't already know.

I'm not afraid of any source lying to me. I will read it and judge for myself whether it has value. In fact, I pity anyone who is so unsure of their own intellect that they will avoid sources of information just because those sources might make them reconsider their preconceived ideas. That is a truly sad limitation in my opinion.

[geek tragedy]

62. Cool story, bro. nt

[another_liberal]

65. Thanks!

I really only post for the applause, don't you know.

[cali]

15. yay. another load of propaganda. I hate all propaganda equally no matter

the source.


I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate it.

and I can't believe how easily duped people are by anything that works to confirm their biases.

well, actually, I can believe it.

[another_liberal]

60. I try to find sources which may help me learn something I don't already know.

I'm not afraid of any source lying to me. I will read it and judge for myself whether it has value. In fact, I pity anyone who is so unsure of their own intellect that they will avoid sources of information just because those sources might make them reconsider their preconceived ideas. That is a truly sad limitation in my opinion.

[chrisa]

17. Seems legit

[The Magistrate]

20. That Is Not a Report Of Fact, Sir

It is not even a reasonable conclusion from observed fact.

It is a mere confection whipped up to appeal to left opinion in the United States, by people fairly experienced in attempting manipulation of same....

[another_liberal]

58. You may be right about that.

I have no means of personally observing what is happening in eastern Ukraine. This is merely a report from a source which does have such means. Whether it is totally true, partly true or totally false, we may never know.

[The Magistrate]

70. Even The Source You Cite, Sir, Does Not State It To Be Fact

It reports a source alleges a group has arrived and assumes some people are part of that alleged group, which someone else maintains has a certain identity.

And yet you say 'Blackwater is reported to be on the ground.'

Not even the source you cite, and the sources it cites, once state that as a fact, or offer any evidence it is a fact.

[another_liberal]

72. I did not say it was a "fact" . . .

Did I?

I offered a provocative article concerning a subject of considerable moment. That is all. The only horse I'm backing in all of this is respect for the democratic process (and, it should go without saying, the principle of non interference in the internal affairs of another sovereign nation).

[The Magistrate]

74. To Anyone Competent In English, Sir, Yes --- You Presented It As A Fact

To state a thing is 'reported' is to suggest it ought to taken as true, since a variety of other uses, such as 'claimed', 'alleged', 'unconfirmed reports' and the like are available for employment when a thing is being stated by a source or in an account that offers no particular evidence for a statement's veracity....

[another_liberal]

78. So, "report to be," means the same as, "it is a fact?"

Where did you study English?

[Duckhunter935]

76. So Russia should not be there

[another_liberal]

77. I would prefer that Russia would not have been given a reason . . .

Ukraine should be a whole and united country, under the democratically elected government it had a little over two weeks ago. I would prefer that Russia would not have been given a reason to intervene in Crimea the way she has, but our government decided to ignore the principle of non-interference in the internal affairs of another sovereign nation, and once we had done so and overthrown Yanukovich and his government, it is clear Russian also felt no longer bound to respect that principle.

It is transparent hypocrisy for us to complain about what Russia has done. Their actions in Crimea are directly linked with our earlier efforts toward overthrowing Yanukovich. Remember?

[Cali_Democrat]

24. LOL....nt

[another_liberal]

56. I make it a habit to explore any source which might tell me something I don't already know.

I'm not afraid of any source lying to me. I will read it and judge for myself whether it has value. In fact, I pity anyone who is so unsure of their own intellect that they will avoid sources of information just because those sources might make them reconsider their preconceived ideas. That is a truly sad limitation in my opinion.

[Cali_Democrat]

59. You don't understand. I didn't avoid the source

I read it and laughed.

There's a difference.

[another_liberal]

64. Well said.

Though I don't exactly share your sense of humor.

[postulater]

25. I just spoke with a friend from Ukraine who lives in the US now.

She subscribes to multiple Russian news sources, some direct from Moscow in Russian, some from New York. She says that the best reporting right now is actually coming from CNN. She particularly thought Anderson Cooper was reporting well.

[amandabeech]

45. I've been watching a combo of CNN and Al Jazeera.

In addition to AC, CNN has a large contingent on the ground in Ukraine and in Moscow. They had Ben Weideman (sp) in Sevastopol, and someone else who speaks Russian and Ukrainian.

CNN did well in the first Iraq war, and they seem to be doing well in this situation, too.

[another_liberal]

55. Thank you for posting.

I'm not afraid of any source lying to me. I will read it and judge for myself whether it has value. In fact, I pity anyone who is so unsure of their own intellect that they will avoid sources of information just because those sources might make them reconsider their preconceived ideas. That is a truly sad limitation in my opinion.

[davidpdx]

86. Interesting

Does your friend know anyone that is over there now?

How long did she live there?

[cthulu2016]

26. Thanks for posting total bullshit! Very helpful.

Particularly comical is how "made an assumption that" is promoted to "reported"

[another_liberal]

54. I will explore and use any source which will tell me something I don't already know.

I'm not afraid of any source lying to me. I will read it and judge for myself whether it has value. In fact, I pity anyone who is so unsure of their own intellect that they will avoid sources of information just because those sources might make them reconsider their preconceived ideas. That is a truly sad limitation in my opinion.

[stillcool]

28. I wonder how many other..

Private military corporations are there. Sounds like it could be a real moneymaker.

[another_liberal]

53. The Ukrainian oligarchs now being appointed regional governors by the "interim government" . . .

Are men with a great deal of ready cash at their disposal (they have been very good at stealing). They need armed muscle to deal with Yanukovich supporters and ethnic Russians, so there could be almost any number of mercenaries in eastern Ukraine.

[msanthrope]

29. Bookmarking...for the next time someone says there are no "pro-Putin" posters here. nt

[another_liberal]

52. I am not pro-Putin, sir. I am pro-democratic process, and against pop coups.

As to my use of RT News as one of my sources: I will explore and use any source which can possibly tell me something I don't already know. I'm not afraid of any source lying to me. I will read it and judge for myself whether it has value. In fact, I pity anyone who is so unsure of their own intellect that they will avoid sources of information just because those sources might make them reconsider their preconceived ideas. That is truly sad.

[msanthrope]

57. My username indicates that you are mistaken as to my gender. As for your reliance on RT...well,

any port in a storm, I guess.

[another_liberal]

63. I see. Then, Ms., . . .

No offense was intended.

[BelgianMadCow]

31. that seems plausible.

I mean, there's a clear security need in Ukraine, and since the western part is now, well, western-oriented, wouldn't we expect forces like Academi to be present?

besides at said forces, I remember Blackwater and Katrina too well.

[Cali_Democrat]

33. You're getting misinformation

Actually it's deliberate propaganda.

[BelgianMadCow]

36. I try to treat

all propaganda equal. So yes, it could be. Truth is the first casualty of war. But that same channel reported on the March against Monsanto whilst the MSM shut it out. So yes, they are a state-owned channel and have an agenda. So does, let's say, US corporate-owned news, right?

[cthulu2016]

42. Treating all propaganda equal is not clever, it's stupid

It is similar to the political "both sides do it" mind set.

Not all propaganda is equal, so you start out being assured of being wrong.

[OilemFirchen]

49. "... whilst the MSM shut it out."

The protests were reported on by news outlets including ABC News, the Associated Press, The Washington Post, The Los Angeles Times, USA Today, and CNN (in the United States), and Russia Today and The Guardian (outside the United States).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_Against_Monsanto#Media_coverage

[another_liberal]

50. Main Western Media services have their marching orders . . .

Russia and Russian point of view = bad. Western overthrow of the democratically elected government of Ukraine, and U.S. engineered installation of the "interim government" = good.

[TroglodyteScholar]

75. At best this is speculation

And at worst its propaganda, which seems a very very likely.

[another_liberal]

84. Why, exactly, do you reach those conclusions?

Give us your insights, please.

[TroglodyteScholar]

87. Because there is no evidence offered to support the claims being made.

That's the first clue that someone is just making shit up... Can't give any *factual* info.

Did you see something I missed?

[another_liberal]

88. You aren't reading what I've been posting . . .

Or you are intentionally blocking it all out.

If it's the first case, start reading.

If it's the second, have a nice day anyway.

[jakeXT]

89. The Republicans dream of Reagan and Putin just walked into Afghanistan ala 1979 ? /nt

[another_liberal]

90. With at least two very important differences . . .

Afghanistan did not have a sixty percent majority ethnic Russian population and the Russian Black Sea Fleet was not already stationed there.