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Catherina

(35,568 posts)
Sun Mar 9, 2014, 12:29 PM Mar 2014

FAIR: Denying the Far-Right Role in the Ukrainian Revolution

Denying the Far-Right Role in the Ukrainian Revolution
By Jim Naureckas

Some commentators on the Ukraine crisis seem so convinced that it must be a struggle between good guys and bad guys that they're willing to ignore evidence that there's anything problematic about their chosen side.


Nationalist flags fly over an anti-government protest in Kiev. (cc photo: Antanana/Wikimedia)

In the US press, this generally means whitewashing the opposition that overthrew the government of President Viktor Yanukovych, since Yanukovych had the support of official enemy Russia. To maintain a simple good vs. evil framework, the fact that Ukraine's neo-fascist movement had a significant role in that opposition–and in the new government that replaced Yanukovych–was downplayed or even outright denied.



Photo illustrating Timothy Snyder's New York Review of Books piece (by Jerome Sessini)

Take Timothy Snyder's widely circulated piece from the New York Review of Books (3/1/14), "Ukraine: The Haze of Propaganda." Snyder is a professor of history at Yale; I've read one of his books, The Reconstruction of Nation: Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania, Belarus, 1569–1999, and thought it was excellent. But his piece on the Ukraine crisis illustrates that being a gifted historian does not automatically convey the ability to write about events in one's own time in a clear-eyed fashion.

Complaining that "from Moscow to London to New York, the Ukrainian revolution has been seen through a haze of propaganda," Snyder cited claims by both Russian and former Ukrainian officials that "Ukrainian protesters were right-wing extremists" and that Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych had been ousted by "right-wing thugs." "Interestingly," Snyder wrote,

the message from authoritarian regimes in Moscow and Kiev was not so different from some of what was written during the uprising in the English-speaking world, especially in publications of the far left and the far right. From Lyndon LaRouche's Executive Intelligence Review through Ron Paul's newsletter through The Nation and the Guardian, the story was essentially the same: little of the factual history of the protests, but instead a play on the idea of a nationalist, fascist or even Nazi coup d'état.

In other words, not only Russian and ex-Ukrainian officials, but also various Western media outlets–with the most oddball and marginal listed first–are putting forth the "propaganda" claim that Yanukovych was overthrown by the far right.

Given this introduction, you would expect the article to go on to debunk the idea that the people who overthrew the Ukrainian government were fascists. Instead, Snyder spends the next 20 paragraphs arguing that Yanukovych's government was bad and undemocratic. It need hardly be said, of course, that bad, undemocratic governments can have fascist opponents; if they could not, his opposition to Stalin would disqualify Hitler as a fascist.


Svoboda leader Oleh Tyahnybok (cc photo: Marco Residori)

So it isn't until the 23rd paragraph that Snyder begins to address the claims made by "the far left and the far right" about fascists overthrowing Yanukovych. And he starts, surprisingly enough, by acknowledging that there's an element of truth to them: "The Ukrainian far right did play an important part in the revolution," he writes. That's maybe something he could have mentioned some 1,800 words earlier; it seems an important qualifier to the assertion that talk of "right-wing extremists" is mere "propaganda."

Snyder makes an argument that Yanukovych, by not repressing his fascist opponents as much as he did liberal democrats, was actually using them to bolster his claim to power–imputing to Yanukovych a sort of association with fascism for failing to be antifascist enough. Snyder sees no need, on the other hand, for the anti-Yanukovych movement to apologize for actually including fascists in its coalition; in fact, he depicts the participation of fascist militia in the overthrow of Yanukovych's government in what can only be described as a heroic light:

The radical youth of Svoboda fought in considerable numbers, alongside of course people of completely different views. They fought and they took risks and they died, sometimes while trying to save others.


Svoboda's original logo evoked the swastika, and even more closely resembled a symbol used by Nazi SS units.

Svoboda is a far-right party launched in 1991; its original name (the Social-National Party) and logo (a swastika-like superimposed I-N, standing for "Idea Natsii," or "Idea of the Nation&quot were deliberate echoes of Nazism. It supposedly purged neo-Nazi elements in 2004, but its ostensibly more moderate leader, Oleh Tyahnybok, is notorious for his attacks on the "Moscow/Jewish mafia ruling Ukraine" and "the Moskali (Russians), Germans, Kikes and other scum who wanted to take away our Ukrainian state" (Channel 4, 12/16/13). Yuri Mykhailyshin, one of Tyahnybok's top advisers, set up something called the Joseph Goebbels Political Research Centre in 2005 (OSW Commentary, 7/4/11]). Did some of the people these far-right extremists fought alongside have "completely different views"? One should hope so.

Though not all of them do; another group that played a large role in the violent clashes was Right Sector, an ultra-nationalist movement that has criticized Svoboda for its "pacifism" (Nation, 1/21/14). While disclaiming racism and antisemitism, Right Sector describes itself as "nationalist, defending the values of white, Christian Europe against the loss of the nation and deregionalization" (Le Monde Diplomatique, 3/14). Snyder calls Right Sector "the group to watch" as "the radical alternative to Svoboda," but suggests that it, too, is nothing much to worry about, and possibly even represents a constructive stabilizing force: Its leaders tell Jews and Russians "that their goal is political and not ethnic or racial," and since the government's overthrow, "they have not caused violence or disorder. On the contrary, the subway runs in Kiev." But do the trains run on time?

Snyder insists that "the transitional authorities were not from the right," and that the "new government, chosen by parliament…is very similar in its general orientation." This is simply false; Snyder mentions a couple of political figures who are not fascists, but passes over in silence a number of bonafide far-right extremists who have been given powerful positions.


Andriy Parubiy (cc photo: Sasha Maksymenko/Wikimedia)

The new deputy prime minister, Oleksandr Sych, is from Svoboda; National Security Secretary Andriy Parubiy is a co-founder of the neo-Nazi Social-National Party, Svoboda's earlier incarnation; the deputy secretary for National Security is Dmytro Yarosh, the head of Right Sector. Chief prosecutor Oleh Makhnitsky is another Svoboda member, as are the ministers for Agriculture and Ecology (Channel 4, 3/5/14). In short, if the prospect of fascists taking power again in Europe worries you, you should be very worried about Ukraine.


Forbes' Greg Satell

Snyder's piece inspired a much less informed screed in Forbes (3/4/14) making an even more sweeping denial of the role of the extreme right in the new Ukrainian government. Forbes contributor Greg Satell wrote:

There has also been completely unfounded accusations that Ukraine's interim government is "Neo-Nazi" and "Ultranationalist." Timothy Snyder has done a wonderful job debunking these claims.

Satell's link, of course, goes to Snyder's "Haze of Propaganda."

"Are there Neo-Nazis in Ukraine?" writes Satell. "Sure, just as there are in Chicago and every other major American city. Are some politically active? Yes, as is David Duke in our own country. Do they have any power to shape policy or events? Categorically no." Unless you count leading the fighting that overthrew the government as shaping events, or getting to run the military and justice system as affecting policy.

Satell has the nerve to call his utterly ignorant article "How the Western Press Is Getting It Terribly Wrong in Ukraine."



This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License.


About Jim Naureckas

Extra! Magazine Editor Since 1990, Jim Naureckas has been the editor of Extra!, FAIR's monthly journal of media criticism. He is the co-author of The Way Things Aren't: Rush Limbaugh's Reign of Error, and co-editor of The FAIR Reader: An Extra! Review of Press and Politics in the '90s. He is also the co-manager of FAIR's website. He has worked as an investigative reporter for the newspaper In These Times, where he covered the Iran-Contra scandal, and was managing editor of the Washington Report on the Hemisphere, a newsletter on Latin America. Jim was born in Libertyville, Illinois, in 1964, and graduated from Stanford University in 1985 with a bachelor's degree in political science. Since 1997 he has been married to Janine Jackson, FAIR's program director.

http://www.fair.org/blog/2014/03/07/denying-the-far-right-role-in-the-ukrainian-revolution/
30 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
FAIR: Denying the Far-Right Role in the Ukrainian Revolution (Original Post) Catherina Mar 2014 OP
k&r Starry Messenger Mar 2014 #1
K&R for "nuance" and critical deals of how and why things happened newthinking Mar 2014 #2
Most ProSense Mar 2014 #3
Well okay, then, Svoboda is groovy because it is no longer "overtly anti-Semitic." Comrade Grumpy Mar 2014 #4
No one fucking said that. n/t ProSense Mar 2014 #5
Maybe not "groovy," but not "so extreme." Comrade Grumpy Mar 2014 #12
Well, not in those exact words, but someone certainly did offer a 'nuanced' endorsement of them, sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #17
Neo-Nazi groups now have PR specialists- Seriously newthinking Mar 2014 #9
Pure BS, and hilarious coming from someone fear mongering in Putin's defense. ProSense Mar 2014 #10
I am not "in defense of Putin" newthinking Mar 2014 #25
Distraction. Igel Mar 2014 #6
The military-industrial-media complex lives. They will always push the jingoistic line. reformist2 Mar 2014 #7
Which is another, of many, good reasons for the US to stay the hell away from that mess. K&R Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2014 #8
Do you want to laugh? $1 Billion isn't even enough to pay for 3 weeks of gas Catherina Mar 2014 #13
EU planning 11 billion in "aid" BelgianMadCow Mar 2014 #14
That too is laughable. That's less than a year's worth of gas bills Catherina Mar 2014 #15
The IMF will cough up the reminder BelgianMadCow Mar 2014 #16
They're going to have to cough up enough to pretend though (at first at least) Catherina Mar 2014 #24
Russia has ProSense Mar 2014 #26
That's exactly what it is 'a "troika" package to save the banks and strangle the people, paid for by sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #19
you're thinking of Papademos, I believe BelgianMadCow Mar 2014 #20
Yes, you are correct, I forgot about Italy too. sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #22
That's bullshit. Far right has been acknowledged since beginning Pretzel_Warrior Mar 2014 #11
It could've been Putin ... brett_jv Mar 2014 #18
FAIR G_j Mar 2014 #21
For a minute there I thought my ignore list failed Catherina Mar 2014 #27
I've been following them for years G_j Mar 2014 #28
recommend frwrfpos Mar 2014 #23
kick. Thanks for posting Catherina. +1 eom Purveyor Mar 2014 #29
Must Read malaise Mar 2014 #30

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
3. Most
Sun Mar 9, 2014, 02:12 PM
Mar 2014
In the US press, this generally means whitewashing the opposition that overthrew the government of President Viktor Yanukovych, since Yanukovych had the support of official enemy Russia. To maintain a simple good vs. evil framework, the fact that Ukraine's neo-fascist movement had a significant role in that opposition–and in the new government that replaced Yanukovych–was downplayed or even outright denied.

<...>

Some commentators on the Ukraine crisis seem so convinced that it must be a struggle between good guys and bad guys that they're willing to ignore evidence that there's anything problematic about their chosen side.

...rational people don't assume it's a "simple good vs. evil framework" or a "struggle between good guys and bad guys" in Ukraine. The problem is that some are hyping the power and influence of the far right, and there is a lot of screaming about Nazis. It's also ironic that a piece about the role of the "bad guys" is making this claim.

One can find media coverage expressing concerns about far-right influences.

In Ukraine, nationalists gain influence - and scrutiny

By Sabina Zawadzki, Mark Hosenball and Stephen Grey

<...>

Russia's president Vladimir Putin claims Ukraine has fallen into the hands of far-right fascist groups, and some Western experts have also raised concerns about the influence of extremists...Two of the groups under most scrutiny are Svoboda, whose members hold five senior roles in Ukraine's new government including the post of deputy prime minister, and Pravyi Sector (Right Sector), whose leader Dmytro Yarosh is now the country's Deputy Secretary of National Security.

<...>

Expert opinions on Svoboda in particular are divided. Per Anders Rudling, an associate professor at Lund University in Sweden and researcher on Ukrainian extremists, has described Svoboda as "neo-fascist". He told Britain's Channel 4 News: "Two weeks ago I could never have predicted this. A neo-fascist party like Svoboda getting the deputy prime minister position is news in its own right."

But Ivan Katchanovski, a political scientist at the University of Ottawa who has studied the far-right in Ukraine, disagreed that Svoboda was so extreme. "Svoboda is currently best described as a radical nationalist party, and not as fascist or neo-Nazi," he said. "It is now not overtly anti-Semitic."

Andrew Srulevitch, director of European Affairs for the Anti-Defamation League, an international group based in the U.S. that monitors anti-Semites and other political extremists, said: "Svoboda has been disciplined in its messaging regarding Jews since the Maidan demonstrations started in November, but they have a history of anti-Semitic statements to overcome, and a clear political program of ethnic nationalism that makes Jews nervous."

- more -

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/07/us-ukraine-crisis-far-right-insight-idUSBREA2618B20140307


From the State Department fact sheet.

10. Mr. Putin says: The Rada is under the influence of extremists or terrorists.

The Facts: The Rada is the most representative institution in Ukraine. Recent legislation has passed with large majorities, including from representatives of eastern Ukraine. Far-right wing ultranationalist groups, some of which were involved in open clashes with security forces during the EuroMaidan protests, are not represented in the Rada. There is no indication that the Ukrainian government would pursue discriminatory policies; on the contrary, they have publicly stated exactly the opposite.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024612455

Current factions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verkhovna_Rada#Current_factions

Factions in parliament after elections
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Ukrainian_parliamentary_election#Factions_in_parliament_after_elections

Acting President Oleksandr Turchynov is a member of the Fatherland Party, which is the biggest bloc in the Ukraine Parliament.

Secretary of State John Kerry, Ukraine's interim President Oleksandr Turchynov (left), and Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk met in Kiev.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/world/2014/03/04/photos-crisis-ukraine/1qW4mjbnRwGOilPKWKPXDK/story.html?pic=1

Also, if Putin is pro-Yanukovych, it's funny that he has no interest in returning him to power.

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
12. Maybe not "groovy," but not "so extreme."
Sun Mar 9, 2014, 03:45 PM
Mar 2014

"But Ivan Katchanovski, a political scientist at the University of Ottawa who has studied the far-right in Ukraine, disagreed that Svoboda was so extreme. "Svoboda is currently best described as a radical nationalist party, and not as fascist or neo-Nazi," he said. "It is now not overtly anti-Semitic."

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
17. Well, not in those exact words, but someone certainly did offer a 'nuanced' endorsement of them,
Sun Mar 9, 2014, 04:35 PM
Mar 2014

right there in the OP:

But Ivan Katchanovski, a political scientist at the University of Ottawa who has studied the far-right in Ukraine, disagreed that Svoboda was so extreme. "Svoboda is currently best described as a radical nationalist party, and not as fascist or neo-Nazi," he said. "It is now not overtly anti-Semitic."


From anti-Semitic to Radical Nationalist Party 'not overtly anti-Semitic'. Well, that's an improvement!

newthinking

(3,982 posts)
9. Neo-Nazi groups now have PR specialists- Seriously
Sun Mar 9, 2014, 03:10 PM
Mar 2014

They have discovered the world of PR. Their beliefs have not changed, they are simply more careful to groom their image and use the press more effectively to do so.

Funny thing is, in this case, western media and propaganda are also doing it for them.

newthinking

(3,982 posts)
25. I am not "in defense of Putin"
Sun Mar 9, 2014, 05:09 PM
Mar 2014

As you would like to call out. As I have pointed out before I don't really get much into all the cold war posturing. I am more concerned about how this all affects the people in Ukraine, and avoiding civil war seem to me to be the most important component at this time.

I am sorry you seem threatened by my posting on a topic that is important to me. Seriously PS, you are on here all the time posting your views and take a great piece of the stage here. Why can't you tolerate someone who is less active when they get involved in a topic without labeling them in McCarthyite terms?

Igel

(37,437 posts)
6. Distraction.
Sun Mar 9, 2014, 02:46 PM
Mar 2014

It's a straw man. Most acknowledge Svoboda's drawbacks, without exaggerating them or declaring them to be universal problems of the protesters. That's Putin's line.

Most also don't fall for a kind of etymological fallacy, either. Similarity with events from 1944 don't require identicality of events. "Evoking" a similar symbol can be just that: you evoke it for a purpose, not because all the goals and actions are the same.

And then there's the whole/part issue, where one issue from 1944 remains: Ukrainian independence and throwing off the shackles of ethnic repression after the end of colonialization (even if we really don't like thinking of the USSR as a colonial empire).

A serious issue is assuming what we see and know is all that we need. We hear Tiahnybok say something anti-Semitic and we see red. We don't hear something come out of Putin's mouth because we don't notice it, and we assume we know everything we need to. We don't, but we're believe ourselves to be right so we're happier that way.

For Kyiv and in Crimea what's important is this: The Kyiv government will have elections soon. Russians, Ukrainians, Rusyns, Bulgarians, Hungarians will vote pretty much unconstrained. Even the Party of Regions has candidates running.

The Crimean government will have elections soon. In one of them, thousands of armed foreign troops supporting one particular outcome will be in the streets, have shut down any unfavorable media outlets, are detaining opposition members without trial, and are banning any observers, even as the foreign government behind the troops makes veiled threats against voting the wrong way and promises of a great influx of money if they make the right choice. That choice was being billed as a choice between autonomy and annexation; the city council voted for annexation and is now describing the referendum as confirmation that they made the right choice.

And we declare the side with the troops to be the side of enlightened truth and justice. No need to invoke Czechoslovakia, no need to invoke the Sudentenland, Kosovo or S. Ossetia.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
8. Which is another, of many, good reasons for the US to stay the hell away from that mess. K&R
Sun Mar 9, 2014, 03:00 PM
Mar 2014

Unfortunately, the the suckers have already promised $1bn to those really nice, democracy loving, fellows running the show in Ukraine.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
13. Do you want to laugh? $1 Billion isn't even enough to pay for 3 weeks of gas
Sun Mar 9, 2014, 03:46 PM
Mar 2014

The West plans to act big towards Ukraine with Russian gas, and act tough towards Russia with economic sanctions...? Not a muddled policy at all...

BelgianMadCow

(5,379 posts)
14. EU planning 11 billion in "aid"
Sun Mar 9, 2014, 04:08 PM
Mar 2014

read a "troika" package of save the banks and strangle the people, paid for by EU taxpayers, will net big profits in privatisation.
A great game, if you can play it.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
15. That too is laughable. That's less than a year's worth of gas bills
Sun Mar 9, 2014, 04:24 PM
Mar 2014

And then the EU promises to provide gas... A great game for sure! If Ukraine couldn't pay for discounted Russian gas, what makes anyone think they can pay for Russian gas coming in the long route from the west? Besides that's not even possible right now because the lines weren't built for 2-way transport. The EU citizens are already squealing about being robbed by their governments for the 1%'s profit. I don't see this going over too well. Occupy2 will be angrier than Occupy1

4/14/14 https://waveofaction.org/





Found this in a comment somewhere:

The West imposes sanctions on Russia and at the same time gives billions in cash and loan guarantees to Ukraine so they can pay last month's utility bills to Russia so their gas isn't turned off.

It makes as much sense as the CIA trying to decide what Putin does next by carefully studying how he walks. One of the US TV networks had an example of this on their main evening news, with a body-language expert commenting on Putin walking down a long hallway. They were serious because it came half-way through the program, well before the last 5 minutes usually devoted to old YouTubes of funny cats.

BelgianMadCow

(5,379 posts)
16. The IMF will cough up the reminder
Sun Mar 9, 2014, 04:28 PM
Mar 2014

but I agree with your analysis. And can't tell you how glad I am to see 4/14/2014 reposted.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
24. They're going to have to cough up enough to pretend though (at first at least)
Sun Mar 9, 2014, 05:04 PM
Mar 2014

Ukrainian gas is currently subsidized by 85%, First from the 33% discount Russia gives them and then from the 20% off the price they paid Gazprom that the Ukrainian Government sells it for. I don't see Russia continuing the discount and we know their new government won't. Do you? 4/14

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
26. Russia has
Sun Mar 9, 2014, 05:14 PM
Mar 2014

"Ukrainian gas is currently subsidized by 85%, First from the 33% discount Russia gives them and then from the 20% off the price they paid Gazprom that the Ukrainian Government sells it for. I don't see Russia continuing the discount and we know their new government won't. Do you? 4/14"

...zero economic leverage. It's simply a fantasy to think that a country that relies significantly on oil revenues is going to start throwing its weight around.

March 7 Press Briefing:

<...>

Q A quick one on Ukraine again. Republicans have been pushing this plan to increase exports of natural gas. Does the administration see that as some type of realistic option when it comes to helping overseas?

MR. EARNEST: Let me start by saying this: There are six licenses that have been approved by the Department of Energy related to the export of about 8.5 billion cubic feet per day of natural gas to a range of countries around the world. What’s important for you to understand about those licenses that have already been issued is that the projects for delivering the product would not be completed until the end of next year. So proposals to try to respond to the situation in Ukraine that are related to our policy on exporting natural gas would not have an immediate effect.

The other factor that’s important to understand about the situation is the current inventories of liquefied natural gas in Europe and in Ukraine are actually above traditional levels or above normal levels. The reason for that is, unlike North America, they’ve had a relatively mild winter in Europe and the region. So there is no indication currently that there’s much risk of a natural gas shortage in the region.

The other dynamic that factors into all this is that Russia prides itself on being a reliable supplier of natural gas to countries around the world -- I would say natural gas and other sources of energy to countries around the world. Shutting off the natural gas would threaten that reputation -- it certainly would undermine it, not just in the eyes of Ukraine and Europe but in countries around the world.

Finally, it’s also important to recognize that Russia relies on revenue from exporting natural gas and other sources of energy. Russia currently yields about $50 billion a year in revenue from exporting natural gas, so ending that kind of relationship with Europe would have significant financial consequences for Russia as well.

So this is a complicated situation. For a more detailed explanation of this complicated dynamic, I’d refer you to the Department of Energy. But in terms of the top lines, the United States has a long relationship with Ukraine and has actually been talking about these energy issues for some time. Vice President Biden traveled to Ukraine in 2009, and one of the items at the top of the agenda was efforts by the United States to work with Ukraine to help them reduce their dependence on Russian sources of energy, to help them reform their energy sector, to improve efficiency, to improve energy security in Ukraine. So this is a complicated issue, one that we’ve been coordinating with the Ukrainians on for quite some time.

So I think that mostly answers your question, but for a more detailed answer, I’d refer you to the Department of Energy.

Q Just related to that, did this come up in the call last night with the Prime Minister? Because I know that it’s been really important for Japan to build a strong relationship with Russia for natural gas. Was the President able to give any assurances to the Prime Minister about this?

MR. EARNEST: I don’t want to get into a more detailed readout beyond what we issued last night and early this morning. But I will say that the executive order that the President issued yesterday put in place a structure where sanctions could be implemented. As Jay discussed during the briefing, no specific organizations have been targeted at this point, but that process is underway. So there’s no immediate impact from the sanctions that the President has considered in terms of interrupting anybody’s access to Russian sources of energy.

What sanctions we’ll be focused on are individuals and entities that have interfered with or played a prominent role in interfering with the sovereignty of Ukraine. And those are the individuals and entities that will be targeted. And when we have additional announcements on that, we will. Let me just end this answer by saying that, as I mentioned in my previous answer, that Prime Minister Abe is committed, or voiced to the President his commitment to closely coordinating with the international community and with the other countries in the G7 in standing up for the principle of respecting state sovereignty and the territorial integrity of independent nations.

- more -

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/03/07/press-gaggle-principal-deputy-press-secretary-josh-earnest-en-route-flor




sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
19. That's exactly what it is 'a "troika" package to save the banks and strangle the people, paid for by
Sun Mar 9, 2014, 04:46 PM
Mar 2014

EU taxpayers, will net big profits in privatisation.'

A repeat of what the Austerity, Big Bank people have done to Greece and Ireland, Spain, Portugal, Italy where they will keep approving 'loans' which come with BIG STRINGS attached, strangling former sovereign nations, killing their Social Programs, providing great opportunies for 'investors who will be able to buy the country's national treasures at bargain basement prices.

The IMF has already started in Ukraine, one of the first thing targeted? People's pensions. Anyone following the tragedy of Europe over the past six or seven years, will recognize this instantly. Flashback to Argentina, and Naomi Klein's 'Shock Doctrine'.

Corruption puts a country in debt, the IMF zeroes in, taking advantage of the shocked population, and begins to take over the country's assets etc.

Worse, they moved so quickly before an ELECTED Govt of the people, could speak for them. They appointed a now very familiar 'type' leader in Europe, known as 'Technocrat' who will do as he is told, or, anyone remember when the people of Greece chose a leader, but the shadowy forces now controlling Europe, replaced him with a former Goldman Sacks guy?

Once this deal is done, no legitimately elected leader will be able to stop it.

Ukraine is now safely on the same path as Greece and nothing can change that right now.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
22. Yes, you are correct, I forgot about Italy too.
Sun Mar 9, 2014, 04:59 PM
Mar 2014

I can't say whether or not Russia's deal would have been better or worse, but we do know where the Ukraine is headed with this deal.

 

Pretzel_Warrior

(8,361 posts)
11. That's bullshit. Far right has been acknowledged since beginning
Sun Mar 9, 2014, 03:29 PM
Mar 2014

In news accounts I've read. And since the beginning, RT has labeled all protesters as far right nationalists in a failed attempt to undermine the protest.

Despite what that lying fuckface Putin says, I personally believe he told Yanukovych to send in snipers.

It's a Putin style move.

brett_jv

(1,245 posts)
18. It could've been Putin ...
Sun Mar 9, 2014, 04:36 PM
Mar 2014

But it's also a CIA-style move as well. Sending in anonymous snipers (esp. those that take out individuals on both sides, not sure if that happened in this case or not) to shoot into government protesters is a tried-and-true tactic from the ol' spook playbook. Always good for helping 'take things up a notch', and perhaps foment an actual revolution ...

And given that CLEARLY the people who are now in charge of Ukraine are far more amenable to Western/EU/NATO/IMF interests than Yanucovych (or however you spell it, he was def. leaning towards the Bear for support), I don't personally see any reason to believe MORE strongly that Putin was behind the snipers anymore than I'd suspect agents from Western Intelligence.

If Europe ends up getting it's NG supply from Russia cut off due to the actions presently afoot, and the USA magically comes to their rescue with it's shiny new terminals shipping away our 'excess' fracked LNG, which is now a political sticking point but may become unstuck if Europe is suddenly in the dark and cold ... let's just say, I'll become even more suspicious w/regards to just who those snipers ... actually were.

In any case, the better informed we become w/regards to who these new leaders actually ARE in Ukraine, the more accurately we can form our opinions with regards to which 'side' we really should be on here. I, for one, was happy to read a 'balancing' piece w/that of Snyder's (which I read earlier in the week), since I honestly don't know WHAT/WHO to actually believe ... but I'm keen to understand what's going on and who the players all are.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
27. For a minute there I thought my ignore list failed
Sun Mar 9, 2014, 05:23 PM
Mar 2014

and I was going to see someone else with their ridiculous ROFL smilie attacking FAIR. Whew.

Totally agreed. Support them if you can.

G_j

(40,559 posts)
28. I've been following them for years
Sun Mar 9, 2014, 05:27 PM
Mar 2014

they are very good. And, I too have come to half-expect criticism here of any truly liberal source.

malaise

(294,306 posts)
30. Must Read
Sun Mar 9, 2014, 05:35 PM
Mar 2014

K & R

BBC had a very good interview with a former Kremlin man. At least they are now presenting alternative views to the deluge of pro-Western propaganda. Never mind that it's well over a week late - better late than never.

I'm way too old to be fooled - I've lived destabilization - know all the signs and can recite the BS propaganda.
They should all be tired of the same old same old bullshit while they loot this planet and destroy humanity while not giving a flying fuck who dies as long as their unquenchable greed is guaranteed.

Today in Iraq - 40 plus more innocent people were blown up - Bushco, Blair et al got the oil - who cares.

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