Well this is new...New York church to give away AR-15 semi-automatic rifle

[30cal]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Lasher (a host of the General Discussion forum).

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/07/justice/new-york-church-gun-giveaway/index.html?hpt=hp_t3


New York (CNN) -- An upstate New York church is giving new meaning to the biblical passage, "My peace I give unto you."

In this case, it's a piece: an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle.

Grace Baptist Church in Troy -- about two and half hours north of Manhattan -- is giving away the semi-automatic rifle as part of a special event honoring hunters and gun owners later this month. The church website entices gun lovers with the words "Win a Free AR-15" followed by the New Testament line

[Duckhunter935]

1. NY SAFE compliant

Look at that ugly stock but it complies with the strict new law on so called "assault weapons" I assume it functions exactly the same as those scary banned AR-15's

[30cal]

2. I don't know how it functions but it's crazy for church to be given away an assault rifle

to it's members.

[NickB79]

8. Since it's NY SAFE compliant, it's not an assault rifle anymore

That was the entire point of the NY law changes.

To comply, it has a fixed stock, no flash hider, only holds 10 rounds in the magazine, and appears to be using a pinned (non-removable) magazine. You couldn't even load or reload it without opening it up and top-loading the magwell.

For all intents and purposes, it's no different than this gun:

[Duckhunter935]

27. or this crap

explain please Hoyt..............

[Fumesucker]

3. Damn whacky Southern red staters

[Agschmid]

4. You might find this is outside of the GD SOP.

[Duckhunter935]

11. not if it

is against guns. One side gets a pass in GD on the gun postings. This will not get locked.

[Lizzie Poppet]

45. Most of the time, that's true.

"Some animals are more equal than others."

However, a local-news gun thread with an anti-gun slant to the OP did indeed get locked this morning. I was gobsmacked...

[Duckhunter935]

52. Broken clock is........

[Hoyt]

5. Yep, those law-abiding gun manufacturers will work day and night to skirt intent/spirit

of law to get such weapons in hands of those who fancy them.

[NickB79]

7. They're not skirting anything, and you know it

They're obeying the letter of the law, no more, no less.

Your comment makes as much sense as a cop pulling me over for doing 69 in a 70mph zone and saying "you were skirting the intent of the speed limit."

[Hoyt]

9. You know what the intent of law is, yet you are fine with putting these guns in the

hands of the callous, bigoted yahoos who are attracted to them.

[NickB79]

10. The intent of the law was to remove guns such as assault rifles from New York

Since this gun is NY SAFE compliant, it's no longer classified as an assault rifle. Problem solved.

Seriously, this is the same argument that comes up EVERY time a new gun law comes into effect. Ban certain features on a class of firearm, the manufacturers comply and remove those features, and then people like you bitch about it.

"Oh, well, they complied with the LETTER of the law, but not the intent."

What you don't say is that your intent was to ultimately ban most firearms, and you're pissed the gun makers didn't just curl up and die like you hoped.

If you don't like the results you keep seeing over and over and over again, either come up with something better than mere cosmetic bans, or just drop the pretense of "common-sense, fair gun laws" and plainly state your desire to ban the vast majority of firearms in circulation.

[Hoyt]

14. Skirting intent of law. Gun fanciers and gun pushers have no respect for society.

[NickB79]

19. What features would you remove from the rifle in the OP, then?

Since you think they're skirting the intent of the law, be specific: HOW are they skirting the law? What features do they have to remove before this gun is acceptable to you?

And please, tell us how it differs from classic hunting rifles like this gun, first built in 1955, given the new regulations the NY SAFE act makes it comply to.

[Hoyt]

23. Jusy get rid of all semi-autos. That is easy enough to understand and will be a fatal blow to

gun manufacturing/marketing/pushing industry. Hunters don't need them. If there are truly people into gunz strickly for self-defense, they don't need them either. Society will be much better off too.

[Duckhunter935]

29. well see that happen

real soon

[Hoyt]

34. Oh I know, there are millions of white wing gun nuts who would go beserk.

[Duckhunter935]

36. and millions of democrats also

[Hoyt]

38. Naw, most of thrm realize society is more important than having a weapon that handles 30 shot mags.

The majority of gun nuts are white wing bigots. Most Democrats are willing to give a little to improve society, although for some, the lure of the gunz is strong. Hopefully, you will mature in your view of gunz in society and what the citizenry should give up so you can have these weapons.

[NickB79]

46. Except the AR-15 in the OP is limited to 10-shot mags

And because of the NY SAFE act, it appears it can't even use a detachable high-capacity magazine instead.

All the features an AR-15 has that most gun control proponents point to have been removed from the gun in the OP. There is literally nothing left to give short of banning semi-automatic firearms entirely, something we all know even most Democrats don't support.

[Lizzie Poppet]

50. Race card played!

/thread

[NickB79]

44. And that won't happen in our lifetimes

Seeing as the trend is going in the OPPOSITE direction towards more semi-automatic firearms, not less. People like me that prefer bolt-action rifles and single-shots are no longer in the majority of gun owners. And eliminating semi-automatic firearms would in no way kill the gun industry, seeing as it's been around for centuries and has shown the ability to innovate over and over again (their innovation to build a NY SAFE-compliant AR-15 is the reason you're pissed off in this thread).

Eliminate all semi-automatic firearms? Just bring back revolvers with quick-change cylinders that you pop in and out like magazines. For example, you could replace that NY SAFE-compliant AR-15 with something like this modded to use quick-change cylinders and be MORE deadly:

The reason this thread has gotten my dander up so much is that, honestly, I kind of like the NY SAFE law. It had flaws, but by and large it passed gun laws that most reasonable people could get behind while still allowing people to own a wide variety of guns suitable for hunting, target shooting and self defense. If my state passed it, I'd have no problem complying with it.

It is the most strict gun regulation in the country, and here you are bitching it's STILL not good enough. Yet you assail gun owners in gun threads, even liberal ones here on DU, for not accepting "popular, common-sense gun laws" when your stated goals are far from what is popular or common sense. It is hypocritical in the extreme, when your position on gun control is as far left of center as the NRA's is right of center.

[Token Republican]

48. Ammo

You do realize that it is technically illegal to buy ammo in New York now.

They are just not enforcing the ammo provisions statewide.

[Duckhunter935]

53. That is one

clusterfuck. Should have started in January but they can't figure out how to do it.

[geckosfeet]

33. Holy irony almighty. Talk about bigotted.

[Hoyt]

35. I admit to being bigoted against the majority of those who covet and promote these weapons.

[Duckhunter935]

12. They just follow

the law as written and passed, never was an assault rifle as the civilian version has never been capable of select fire. The classification of an "assault Weapon" is by having certain features. Since this rifle does not have those features and is functionally the same as all semi-auto rifles for sale and now passes the SAFE ACT rules, it is not an assault weapon but a common rifle.

Too bad for you they just made a legal version of the 60 year old AR-15 platform.

[Hoyt]

17. Fact is, gun fanciers are attracted to these guns because they are the closest thing they s

can get to gunz that have killed millions of people. The fact gun fanciers are attracted to these weapons, is reason enough to ban them and get them off the streets and from under beds of yahoos.

The law's intent and spirit are clear, yet gun lovers and their suppliers work to circumvent laws. There is no honor among the gun culture and those that pander to them.

[NickB79]

21. Well shit, the Mauser rifle killed millions from the late 1800's onward

The US-Cuban war, the Boer Wars, WWI, WWII, etc, etc. Almost EVERY bolt-action hunting rifle is based upon it's design.

By your logic, my 70-yr old grandfather is secretly living his desire to be a Nazi sniper every time he goes deer hunting in the fall with his old Winchester rifle

Better ban them too!

[Duckhunter935]

22. My 90 year old Mosin

is a military grade rifle that very well may have been used to kill in war. Now it is tamed to shoot paper targets. It does a fine job too. I can even mount a bayonet on it.

[Hoyt]

25. But todays bigoted yahoos attracted to gunz don't get excited about Mosins, Mauser, or 38 specials.

Dads will have a harder time interesting their little kids in the gun culture and the crud that goes with it. We'll all be getter off, once the whining is over.

[Duckhunter935]

24. I like mine because it is modular

I can change out the upper and have a rifle for another use. Easy to update to other calibers. I have one receiver and a couple of different uppers. Like millions, I have been trained on the military version that is not available in the civilian market but the semi functions are the same on both. It is now becoming one of the best hunting platforms due to the ability to do simple upgrades without a gunsmith. The AR platform comes in variety of calibers that are well suited from self defense and hunting small or large game.

[Hoyt]

26. You need all that flexibility for duck hunting?

[Duckhunter935]

30. You have no idea what my avatar is about

I have explained it many times and it is not about ducks. I am sure you have seen it around here.

[Hoyt]

32. Varmit hunting or whatever. Now if you think sniping is an honorable pursuit, I guess all that crud

excites you. Your life won't be harmed much by taking the excitement out of the gun culture. But, society will be much better off.

[Duckhunter935]

37. just the skill and calm needed

to shoot paper targets. Can be very challenging using iron sights. I find it very relaxing.

[Hoyt]

39. You like targets that resemble humans, like many gunners?

[Duckhunter935]

42. Nope

[Token Republican]

51. Intent is clear?

Could you explain this portion:

It shall be unlawful for a person to knowingly possess a large
capacity ammunition feeding device manufactured before September
thirteenth, nineteen hundred ninety-four, and if such person lawfully
possessed such large capacity feeding device before the effective date
of the chapter of the laws of two thousand thirteen which added this
section, that has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or
converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition.


The first half is clear, but what does the second portion mean? What is the clear intention?

[Duckhunter935]

54. clear to me

looks like bull, that is what you get when you rush and pass legislation without reading it. But it makes us safer, think of the kids.

[SomethingFishy]

6. "My peace I give unto you"??

Does the bible defend my right to keep and bear arms? Sure.. sure it does... it's right there in the 4 Books of the new, new testament. The Books of George, John, Thomas and Ben... and Paul and Ringo...

For fucks sakes.. You know why atheists think there is no god? Because a fucking bolt of lightning has not struck these morons down.

[NightWatcher]

13. Love the last sentance in your reply. I think that's what happened to me

And the lord said unto them, "Love thy neighbor unless he gets too close to your ass then waste the bastard in a hail of lead". "Kill em all and let, well, er ME sort em out".

Amen.

Shouldn't their poster read "my piece...."?

[SomethingFishy]

15. "My piece".. excellent...

I try to laugh at this stuff most of the time but damn, sometimes you really want to slap the shit out of someone...

[NightWatcher]

16. if you're in upstate NY and want to slap someone, we'll raise bail money

[SomethingFishy]

18. LOL.. Sorry, I'm in Colorado... which, as you might figure..

means I'm too damn high to bother hitting someone

[Rex]

20. Don't make Western Jesus mad.

[Initech]

28. Praise the lord and pass the ammo!

[Duckhunter935]

31. wish it would get cheap again

[Hoyt]

40. I think we should balance the budget, and replenish funds for food stamps, unemployment, etc., by

heavily taxing all vices, including ammo.

[Duckhunter935]

43. Already is

[Hoyt]

58. Not enough.

[sweetapogee]

56. and

the internet

[Token Republican]

41. Answers sold here for one dollar

But correct ones cost five dollars.

Simple answers are just that; simple. Evil gun blobby church gives away terror rifle that circumvents laws. Oh the horror. Oh the humanity.

For those who are satisfied with superficial answers, stop reading here and respond with a +1.

Now for the five dollar version. Some thinking is required here, and it involves a lot more than guns. The real story is about the democratic governor of New York squandering his political capital.

Here's the gun part. New York Safe act banned pistol grips. You can take any gun of any size, from a gun that uses BB sized pellets all the way to the biggest bullet there is. If a pistol grip is screwed on a gun that shoots BB sized bullets, its an assault weapon. If you unscrew the pistol grip on a gun, its not. But this is just background.

There's a lot more here than is obvious to casual observers. When the SAFE act was passed, it created a huge backstorm, both in the way it was passed and its content.

New York has a nifty little rule called a message of necessity. That allows the governor to bypass the normal legislative process and get bills passed on an emergency basis. The problem is, that's how most laws are passed in New York.

The SAFE act was Andrew Cuomo's ticket to the 2016 democratic nomination. He's a distant third for the primaries. He also had a large margin of popularity with points to spare. In order to get a boost in the upcoming primaries, he's been trying to position himself as the most liberal democratic candidate, and the SAFE act was a means towards that end. The intention was not only to pass a lot of new restrictions, but to pass them fast so he could claim to be the first to enact new gun laws following Sandy Hook.

The SAFE act itself is a terribly written piece of legislation. I don't mean the content, I mean basic language skills. It looks like it was cut and pasted together by a college sophomore following a weekend of binge drinking. Double, triple and even quadruple negatives, referring to sections of repealed laws, and portions that are simply intelligible. One section actually required people to commit a federal felony to comply with the SAFE act. There's also a provision that allows all banned features if the gun was made on October 13, 1994. Don't ask me why guns made on that date are acceptable, they just are.

The hotline designed to answer questions about SAFE is just as confused. The most current answer is they don't know, and everyone will have to wait until people are arrested to find out what's legal and what's not. Some people like vague laws, as they are useful to promote an agenda, but generally speaking, most people want to know what's legal and what's not.

Given that it does nothing to promote safety, (this statement is made for the benefit of those who take the time to understand what the SAFE act banned), the way it was passed, 2 AM for both legislative houses, with many legislatures stating on the record it would do nothing to prevent any crime, the entire act created a tremendous backlash throughout the state.

95 percent New York counties passed individual resolutions condemning the act. Various police agencies have opposed it in extremely blunt letters. Some police agencies have outright said they won't enforce it.

I don't think I've ever seen this kind of backlash on any prior law in recent history. Its reached the point that even Churches are giving away semi auto guns that comply with SAFE as a form of protest.

Which resulted in the OP's post.

This Church's event is just one of many examples showing that Andrew Cuomo has not only lost a large margin of his popularity, but may have squandered his lock in for reelection.

[Duckhunter935]

47. I like how it made cops

instant criminals as they had more than 7 rounds loaded and no exemption was made in the law for law enforcement

Cops are exempt from the gun rules they will be enforcing. Although the legislature, in its haste, initially neglected to include the usual exceptions for active-duty and retired law enforcement officers, it later rectified that situation, restoring the double standard that cops take for granted. Hence current and former cops may possess "assault weapons," put 10 rounds in 10-round magazines, and use even bigger magazines that are denied to mere citizens.

http://reason.com/blog/2013/10/11/state-police-struggle-to-understand-new

[Token Republican]

49. I found it even more amusing

that its so poorly drafted that felons have an exception to part of the law.

[Skittles]

55. looking for my xray glasses

[Javaman]

57. Plows smows...nt

[Lasher]

59. Locking

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