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[alp227]

This message was self-deleted by its author (alp227) on Tue Mar 11, 2014, 06:11 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[HipChick]

1. And it's your concern why?

If it was illegal, there would be a lot more kids without parents....

[1000words]

2. +1

[alp227]

4. because I believe people have the right not to breathe others' filth

ESPECIALLY children. I am proud to have posted these recent OPs with anti second hand smoke comments, here, here, and here.

And I thought "mind your own business" is right wing individualist STFU type of language intended to shut down critical thinking about public rhetoric and issues, whether the politically incorrect spewings of talk radio and public figures, second hand smoke, etc. Surprised to see such "mind your own business" language on a progressive board where people supposedly prefer a "we society" not a "me society".

[1000words]

9. Your first thought was "to take away her children."

Do you really want to bring up what's expected from a "progressive" forum?

[alp227]

10. hate to ask but what IS the progressive stance on taking children away from families?

in the left-right paradigm? because the "parental rights" movement is largely a right wing thing, but the left does champion due process & rule of law, correct?

[pintobean]

29. "parental rights" is a parental movement

Maybe people like you push them to the right with your authoritarian views.

[leftyohiolib]

79. keeping kids safe from things that will harm them is authoritarian? wow think of all those

damn authoritarians in child protective services who do they think they are?

[pintobean]

98. Let me know when

child protective services start removing children from homes because a parent smokes outside. The woman was consuming a legal product, in a legal manor, and the OP wants the kid taken away.

[Iggo]

121. Yep. Not ticketed. Not fined. Not censured or shamed.

But kids taken away.

Why don't we just cut to the chase and have her killed?

[Hekate]

48. "Parental rights" is an actual thing in law, like "marital rights", not owned by the RW

NOLO has some 32 separate articles: http://www.nolo.com/info/parental-rights

And for comparison, this, on marriage: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/marriage-rights-benefits-30190.html

[Warren DeMontague]

139. I think "taking children away from families" really ought to be reserved for egregiously fucked up

situations.

Parents smoking -and I agree with you that second hand smoke sucks, I was stuck half my childhood in a car with the windows rolled up, thick with cigarette smoke- does NOT meet the standard of "this is so fucked up that the children need to be removed from the home".

I have to believe you know this, and your question is some sort of performance art or deliberate point-making. I cannot believe you are seriously, honestly entertaining the thought of removing children from their families because a parent smokes.

[Dorian Gray]

147. Your childhood

sounds much like my husband's. (Too much time in a smoke filled car with the windows rolled up!)

It sucks. Parents shouldn't do it. But yeah..... talking about removing children from the home because of it? Insane.

[Warren DeMontague]

165. Yep. Grew up in the Midwest, and it was all "it's too cold out to roll the windows down!"

Gack- ack- ack. And everywhere you went, people were smoking. It was inescapable, and awful, and everyone looked at you like you were crazy if you even noticed it.

It's one reason why I roll my eyes when smokers moan about how oppressed they are by The Nazi Fascism that forces them to go outside to light up, now.

[Dorian Gray]

169. My husband's

mom would yell, "It's our fucking car!" if he and his sister complained. (Classy. There were probably other reasons to consider removing them from her custody.)

I'm an ex smoker myself. I am very happy we can't smoke in public places now. I love returning home smoke free.

[alp227]

176. yeah, it so frustrates me about parents who are so callous they'd smoke with their children present.

As much as I wish every child could grow up in a smoke free household I wonder what's a CONSTRUCTIVE way to make people understand the harms of 2nd hand smoke??

[Warren DeMontague]

177. I've moved on, in my own case. Certainly watching my Dad die of lung cancer didn't endear me to

the whole habit.

But I actually think compared to how things were a few decades ago, public awareness has come light-years in the right direction. The mere fact that we're having this conversation, says a lot.

[2pooped2pop]

178. + 1000

maybe someone should have their children taken away from them for teaching them to judge others so harshly. Maybe the OP will remember that when they have children.

[sabrina 1]

161. Children have rights to be with the parents they love. Denying children those rights is a Right

Wing paradigm, see the Drug Laws and how many children's lives were destroyed by the loss of their parents due to laws that took them away, sometimes for their entire childhoods.

The question for a responsible human being, left or right, because the world isn't that black and white, should a child lose his/parents because they smoke? Anything?

A responsible person would weigh the consequences of the harm done by walking along the street with a parent smoking a cigarette, a child who is loved, cared for in a loving family against calling the cops, having the child witness their parents being snatched from them, while they are sent to live with, if they are lucky, family members, or has happened, go into foster care.

That's an easy decision for someone on the left, and I imagine for responsible people regardless of their political affiliation.

[MrMickeysMom]

85. If you were going to critically thing about this issue...

You'd see that there is no course to step in. I say this as a respiratory therapist who has seen enough "teachable moments" to know what works and does not. The only course is to educate, and what you mentioned was not that.

Write a letter to the editor addressing the benefits of smoking cessation and you will have reached more persons.

[Feral Child]

90. You're absolutely correct:

you have a perfect right to be completely judgmental and moralistic on this board.

You can advocate any draconian law to further your pet(ty) cause just because you want to dominate people and take away any choice that violates your edicts.

The only problem I foresee is that others may not discern your inherent correctness and might object to the imposition of your wisdom on their lives.

I bet you'll find plenty of angry people to agree with you, though, so it'll all balance out.

[Cofitachequi]

95. But in the end, you walked away and did mind your own business.

Interesting.

[Cofitachequi]

99. But for the record, i my "polito-dictionary"

Liberal/Progressive is Live and let live. Help when asked or when you see you can be of assistance.

The Right Wing will impose it's judgment on those who have not asked for an opinion or intervention.

[gollygee]

108. There is no way the trauma of being taken away from home and put in foster care

would be less harmful to her than the secondhand smoke.

You aren't thinking this through.

[Rider3]

181. It's about someone's choice

Choice -- that's what it is about. You shouldn't be surprised. Don't take my choice away from me. This includes smoking, my healthcare choices, etc. CHOICE is progressive. You don't seem to understand that.

[yeoman6987]

66. Take away the children?

Wow! How can you as a liberal think that way? We have a bunch of RW folks on here and we just found one. No abotion rights too?

[AtheistCrusader]

199. This is why

No man is an Iland, intire of it selfe; every man is a peece of the Continent, a part of the maine; if a Clod bee washed away by the Sea, Europe is the lesse, as well as if a Promontorie were, as well as if a Mannor of thy friends or of thine owne were; any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee.

It is natural to feel empathy or protectiveness toward other humans. Toward the smoker, not much one can do beyond admonishment. But toward a ward of that smoker, a child? I can see it evoking powerful protective emotions.

It's a child. For whom is human life not precious?

[Viva_La_Revolution]

3. Seriously?

If they were walking down a city street, that kid was breathing in more than a little smoke.

[deathrind]

86. /\ this x1000000

[Voice for Peace]

171. ++ yes...

"second hand smoke" has become a big scary monster
to people who don't think twice about the fumes from
cars and elsewhere.. all the particles we are inhaling every
day.. all sorts of stuff. I'd rather have a little second-hand
tobacco smoke, preferally organic, and even better
a little second hand cannabis smoke.

[pipoman]

5. I would be far more concerned if the child was sitting next

to a busy street, vehicle pollution has to be far more harmful than someone smoking a cigarette outdoors.

Why not anyplace? Because that would be stupid.

[seveneyes]

6. A simple case of MYOB

A simple concept. More people should follow it.

[alp227]

8. No. A simple case of EMPATHY for others.

"Mind your own business" = shutting down any concern for people other than you and a critical worldview.

[Hekate]

33. Your problem is that you lack empathy, not that you have too much of it. nt

[alp227]

75. How? How? How? How? HOW?

am I supposed to have sympathy for some ignorant fuckwad who blows smoke near her kid's face? seriously?

[Hekate]

83. Empathy: The ability to recognize and share someone else's feelings; actively understanding them

You are convinced you are right and others are wrong to the extent that you cannot recognize that your desire to separate mother and child would not only punish the mother (which you want to do) but seriously harm the child.

You have a lot of emotions, but self-righteous anger is foremost, and empathy is non-existent.

[Orrex]

91. Typically, the term "ignorant fuckwad" does not denote an excess of empathy

YMMV.

[Capt. Obvious]

92. She meant impathy

[Voice for Peace]

172. I think empathy would lead you to help and support the mother,

not only for the health of the child, but for her own health.
If you help the mother, the children benefit.
Take the child away, everyone loses, especially you.

[alp227]

184. true. but smoking annoys me enough I had such impure thoughts. nt

[Voice for Peace]

200. very few smokers are proud of being smokers.

..and many are even ashamed.

For many smoking is an emotional support.
It's a horrible stinky unhealthy habit.
But it is a profoundly powerful addiction,
very hard to quit.

Be kind, life is short. It is better for your health.

Annoyance is more harmful to your body than
a few molecules of second-hand tobacco smoke.

The poet Kabir wrote:

All of us are struggling; none has come far.
Put away your arrogance, and look around inside.

[Mariana]

212. It's more fun to indulge in hate

to the degree that one fantasizes about tearing families apart. And fuck the harm it would do to the children. They deserve it for not picking nonsmoking parents.

[pipi_k]

198. When having "empathy" for others...

one also has to figure out whether acting on that "empathy" will do greater damage than what triggered the "empathy" in the first place.



While trying to do good, a person should also avoid harming others.


I'd like to know how taking a child away from its parent(s) because of smoking would NOT do more harm to it. Like someone above pointed out, take a kid away from its parents and it gets shoved into the foster care system, which can often be a living hell.


In any case, having empathy isn't a bad thing. What is a bad thing is when well-meaning but clueless people don't know when to get involved and when to butt out.


PS...and this opinion is coming from someone who is a former smoker. One of those pain in the ass people that current smokers love to hate because we're so adamant about people quitting. But in this case, I don't agree that removing children from a smoking parent is a good thing.

[Orrex]

7. Smoking? Outdoors?!? OUTRAGEOUS!!!

Jail is too good for this sociopath!

[Capt. Obvious]

18. I think we have room in the Fema Camps

for the smoker moms.

[Aristus]

11. Don't even waste your time, alp227.

They have already begun to chime in.

"Oh yeah?! Well...well...well...pollution 'n' cars 'n' stuff!"

Try pointing out that this negligent blockheaded egg donor who in no way should be characterized as a mother for smoking around her child, or you know, smoking at all, and the shitstorm begins...

I hear, understand, and agree. But watch my reply get drowned out by the Friends of Inhaled Carcinogens.

[alp227]

14. Exactly. Look at the other OPs I've started about 2nd hand smoke

you are so right.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014587690

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024311021

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014716287

[notadmblnd]

67. You were expecting something different?

Some how, I think the responses you are getting are exactly the responses that you wanted to get.

[Capt. Obvious]

72. Bingo

It's a well played act.

[Feral Child]

94. I'm missing something, Capt. O,

Why do so many people invite the flames?

JFC, there's plenty of drama in my life without manufacturing any. Actually, I do my best to minimize the drama, not seek it out.

[Mariana]

120. To feel righteous.

The poster, when flamed, can then feel morally superior to all the people who oppose his or her position. Some people really get a charge out of that.

[Feral Child]

162. Kinda glad

that I don't really get that.

Guess I fed the monster upstream...

[Hekate]

77. In religious terms, it's kind of like being a Calvinist: You know the Truth, and everyone else...

... is going to Hell for eternity. Nothing in between.

May I repeat: I am a non-smoker.

I was raised in a houseful of smoke (1950s-1960s) by a conscientious, loving, really good mother who tried again and again to quit the habit. I saw her struggles with cigarettes. Instead of making me despise her, it made me empathize with her. That's empathy, by the way -- knowing it (whatever human failing it might be) could be you, and caring about it.

It kills me that my daughter smokes -- she started as a rebellious middle-schooler, and is now almost 40. I don't despise her, I feel sorry for her, as I know what she is up against.

When she and her husband split up, by the way, he tried to use her smoking against her in a custody fight. When the toddler comes back from mandated overnights with daddy he has flea bites and a gas station hot dog for breakfast -- but that jerk thought he could use mommy's smoking as a weapon....

[Voice for Peace]

173. thank you for your posts.

[Dorian Gray]

151. Always the same reaction

rinse... repeat.... then why repeat the posts?

[Orrex]

27. Perhaps she should be forcibly sterilized to protect future children from her evil.

[Aristus]

32. Or she should just stop smoking.

I suppose to some smokers, your solution and mine are analogous.

But mine is much less extreme.

[Capt. Obvious]

42. Or you could start smoking

Same thing.

[Aristus]

54. You may have missed the point, which is that smoking is not healthy.

For anyone. Not the smoker. Not her child. And not for me, if I was careless enough about my health to think that smoking was a good idea.

Calling your post blindingly and willfully stupid will get this reply alerted on. So I won't.

But really?...

[Autumn]

100. Smoking is not the only thing in this life that is unhealthy.

Myself? I myself I think anyone who drinks is willfully stupid. I have no problem with people who smoke outside.

[Aristus]

102. Science is not on your side on this one.

There is a safe level of alcohol consumption. One of the things for which the maxim - Everything In Moderation - applies. This is not true for smoking. There is no safe level of smoking.

[Autumn]

111. I disagree, I don't believe there is a safe level of drinking. Science changes all the time.

That is my opinion which counts for nothing. If a parent is outside smoking and their child is there it is no ones business. I would be more concerned with the child being exposed to exhaust.

[Aristus]

112. As with the flat-earthers, your belief does not out-weigh the science.

And while car exhaust is the perennial go-to buck to pass when talking about parents who smoke around their children, there is an element of practicality to consider. It is far more practical to urge people to stop smoking than it is to try to get the entire world to stop driving.

[Autumn]

115. flat-earthers??

You must like to have a few to drink. But it's all good, I'm not calling for prohibition.

[Aristus]

124. Flat-earthers.

People who believe the Earth is flat. People who, when confronted with the scientific proof that it is not, often reply: "Well, I believe that it is flat. I'm entitled to my beliefs."

And although I'm stone-cold sober, no amount that I drink will change scientific concepts.

[Autumn]

134. For now? That might change after a few drinks

[Capt. Obvious]

125. That's his addiction speaking

[Autumn]

131. I kind of gathered that with the insult and defensiveness.

Some addictions are more equal than others.

[Lizzie Poppet]

126. Science has also determined that second hand smoke risk is cumulative...

...and there seems to be a "floor" below which the risk is extremely minimal (and in fact null for some ailments, such as myocardial infarction). Occasional minimal exposure in outdoor settings would surely qualify.

[Orrex]

53. I've never smoked anything in my life.

But somehow I can differentiate between ridiculous pearl-clutching and reasonable concern for child safety.

The woman was outdoors, was she not? Unless the woman was exhaling directly into the child's mouth and nose, I suspect that the fragile young creature will survive largely unscathed.

The tale as told offered little justification for condemning the mother or for getting into her business in the manner proposed.

[Aristus]

56. In your world, perhaps, reasonal medical concern equates with pearl-clutching.

But in the realm of medical science, not so much.

[Orrex]

64. What is the reasonable medical concern, exactly?

That incidental, fleeting smoke might briefly drift past the child?

What, precisely, is your concern, and on what basis do you presume that your concern justifies your condemnation of this woman? Please be specific.

[Capt. Obvious]

57. That's your addiction speaking

[Orrex]

61. That's an attempt to distract me from your attempt to distract me from Benghazi.

[Capt. Obvious]

63. We can turn this thread into a Benghazi thread if you prefer

as that will keep us off the topic of IRSGate

[Voice for Peace]

175. damn you, Candy Crush

[leftyohiolib]

82. junkies get mad when u start dissin the junk

[Aristus]

104. No doubt.

You think I would have learned by now. If the defenders of nicotine aren't taking kickbacks from the tobacco companies, they're missing the opportunity of a lifetime...

[In_The_Wind]

153. Smoking around non smokers is selfish.

[Lost_Count]

191. You can just call us the Friends of Free Choice...

This is another one of those we respect your right to choose things... as long as you choose properly...

[Aristus]

197. The child doesn't get a choice.

See? It sounds so reasonable when you put it the way you did: 'It's about free choice. How can anyone have a problem with that?' It makes smokers sound like the aggrieved party, which it's supposed to do.

But the child doesn't have a choice. She's always around the person who is smoking.

[Lost_Count]

206. You should start a charity...

Enormous hamster balls for the children of America...

Big plastic balls with lots of padding and a filtered air supply to make sure nothing icky ever touches their precious selves.

[Aristus]

208. I was trying to think of all the ways that was a stupid post.

But I lost count.

I've said this before: ask any medical provider which diseases he or she hates the most, and the answer you're most likely to get is: the preventable ones.

The practical upshot of your post could be interpreted like this: Why prevent your kids from eating lead paint? Life is tough. Gotta learn the hard way...

[Lost_Count]

209. The reason people like you are disturbing...

... Is because you don't see a difference between eating lead paint chips and getting a bit of smoke outside.

We can't trust you to not take the next crazy step in determining what's "best" for the precious children.

[Aristus]

210. Well, I'm a medical provider.

I've been trained and educated in the science of what's best for children and other human beings.

Not to mention the fact that if a parent is smoking around a child, the child is getting more than a passing whiff of cigarette smoke. Unless you firmly believe that that short instance in which you saw the parent smoking around the child in public is the only time the parent has ever smoked around the child.

[Lost_Count]

211. Peachy for you...

Would you take somebody's child away for chicken fried steak twice a week?

Lack of exercise?

Parenting outside the bounds of the self-esteem guidelines or whatever the latest psychological fad is at the time ?

One could easily make arguments that all of those things are far worse than Periodic secondhand smoke and yet this is the one you seem to care about.

Or are all of those things just next on the to do list?

[itsrobert]

12. Growing up in the 60's/70's many adults smoked near children

I even walked into a cigarette by accident and got burned.

I don't think it is illegal to smoke with kids in the car. That's a new one on me.

[alp227]

17. Actually it is in CA (you have a Laker avatar...are you in CA too?)

http://www.cdph.ca.gov/Pages/PH08-01.aspx

[itsrobert]

71. thanks

I'm not a smoker, never knew about this ordinance.

[Laffy Kat]

35. My mother was a nurse and she smoked throughout her pregnancies.

And through most of my childhood. They just didn't know back then. Doctors didn't think the chemicals got through the placental barrier. Second-hand smoke wasn't even a concept. She was an excellent mom. She just didn't know.

[Iggo]

135. Yep, it's a new one.

[shraby]

13. Your rights end where her nose begins. Where she smokes is HER business. Not yours.

She's outside and I would guess taller than the child. The smoke tends to rise so the child is much more susceptible to car exhaust, pollution, and other stuff in the air than the smoke from that woman's cigarette.
If she was smoking next to you, you would have had the right to ask her to please not smoke next to you because it bothers you, but that's as far as your right to tell her what she can and cannot do extends.

(edited for spelling)

[cali]

15. wow. try "it's none of your fucking business" on for size

looks to me like it would be a perfect fit.

[HipChick]

30. That made me laugh...

In fact,almost spat my lunch out...

[LibertyLover]

51. Best response so far!

n/t

[CVN-68]

110. My thought also.

Thanks for saying it.

[cali]

117. hey, welcome to DU!

[CVN-68]

122. Thank you kindly.

[Capt. Obvious]

16. You passed up such a golden opportunity to be a nosy busy body

You could have at least gone up and coughed obnoxiously in her face.

Thank you for sharing your tale.

[PowerToThePeople]

19. Mother is wrong

taking away the child is extreme and uncalled for, but the mother is VERY wrong to be smoking anywhere near a child. Too bad there are not laws against such things.

[MO_Moderate]

20. Sorry to tell you this

but people don't give a crap about what you hate and NO, it's not worth ruining their lives just to make busy bodies feel better about themselves.
MYOB!!!

[OregonBlue]

21. Foster care is much more harmful to children than walking next to a parents smoking.

Removal from ones family has devastating consequences for children, not to mention the sorry state of our nations foster care programs. I grew up with a parent who smoked. In the car, in the house, etc. I can guarantee you that being removed from my very loving parents would have been every so much more harmful than the smoke I enhaled.

[Mariana]

128. Some people would say that your parents didn't love you

if they smoked around you.

I'm not one of those people.

[OregonBlue]

188. I'm 65. When I was growing up, everyone's parents smoked around them.

[sharp_stick]

22. YES TAKE AWAY THE CHILDREN!!

I'm sure they'll do so much better in the care of Social Services. Nothing bad ever happens to kids in Social Services so it's cool.

Unless you enjoy confrontations with strangers that might well end with a rearranged nose and maybe a police report minding your own business might not be a bad thing.

[Autumn]

149. That could be an awesome teaching moment.

Someone might think twice before they try to fix someone else's life on their way to class again if someone decided to fix their bad habit of butting into someones life. . But to tell the the truth I think the OP is just trolling.

[RobertEarl]

23. Take away her children?

See, this type attitude gives Liberals a bad name.

You should delete such posts.

Otherwise we're coming for you and put you in the gulag, re-education, FEMA camp. <grin?>

[Gidney N Cloyd]

31. +1

[TreasonousBastard]

24. Why not go home with them and see what she feeds the kid? If...

you're doing it for the kid, why stop with smoking?

As bad as smoking may be, you do realize what getting into her face about it on a public street would look like to her and anyone watching? Little sympathy for you rant there.

Good thing you had no time for it. What about next time you see such a terrible thing?

[Lizzie Poppet]

25. They were outside? Oh, FFS.

Do you really think that in an open-air environment that the kid was inhaling a remotely significant amount of smoke? Or that the cumulative effect of such situations could ever come close to the sort of densities and cumulative exposure linked to health issues?

[Hekate]

26. This non-smoker says: Get. A. Grip.

First to your fantasy of abrogating Mom's parental rights: A thousand times more harm would come to her child by taking her away into the foster system than by her mother smoking a legal substance in her presence outdoors.

Second: Just get a grip on yourself. Purify your own life. Seek professional help. Your overreaction says a lot more about you than it does about her and her parenting decisions (about which you know zero).

But leave this woman and others like her alone, because they have enough troubles without you self-righteously reading them the riot act in public.

[HipChick]

28. +1000 recs

[SmittynMo]

62. +1000 recs

[jaysunb]

39. +1 n/t

[wercal]

59. Couldn't have said it better myself.

[alp227]

74. "seek professional help"?

are you fucking serious? i ask a legit question and that's your fucking response? really?

[Hekate]

87. What legitimate question? You fantasized about acts of verbal violence. You have real anger issues.

[bettyellen]

146. yep, if you think taking the children away is a good idea- you need to help figuring out exactly how

fucked up that is.

[Amaya]

167. Exactly!

[Gidney N Cloyd]

34. That kid will probably be just fine without your help.

[Kelvin Mace]

36. While I sympathize with your concern

Once you start taking people's kids away on the grounds of parental stupidity, the whole planet becomes an orphanage.

[Tikki]

37. I am in favor of a law stating NO SMOKING outside within x amount of feet of any children...

Breathing is a function of life…smoking is not.
Tikki

[LeftishBrit]

38. No point having a big confrontation, IMO

Was it inside the college building, or outdoors? If inside, then I would assume that smoking would be illegal, or at least against university rules, whether the child was there or not. If outside, then I don't think it's such a big deal . The reason why it is bad to smoke in a car when your kid is there - this has JUST become illegal in the UK - is because it's occurring in a very small confined space.

In any case, I'd say pick your battles.

[LeftishBrit]

148. PS- and CERTAINLY no cause to take someone's kid away!

Bad as it is for a kid to be exposed to cigarette smoke, it doesn't begin to compare with the harm it causes them to be deprived of their mother, and moved around the care system. The latter should only happen in cases of real abuse or neglect.

[Logical]

40. The smokers defend any smoking anywhere! nt

[cali]

41. huh? really? I haven't noticed that.

and stating that it's ridiculous to contemplate taking a kid out of a home based solely on the mother smoking as she walked outside with the kid, is ridiculous.

[1000words]

50. I'm not even a smoker ... allergic to it, in fact.

The OP is busy-body silliness.

[Throd]

114. I'm not a smoker. I think the OP needs to mind his own business.

[Logical]

214. I don't. Exposing kids to smoke is not what a normal parent does. n-t

[Throd]

216. Who defines "normal"?

[Sissyk]

219. Are you ready to take the child

Away from the parent and put it in foster care because the mother blew smoke outside?

[abelenkpe]

43. My aunt has lung cancer

She never smoked. But her husband does. Still does! It's an addiction.

Most smokers struggle with their addiction. They feel pressure to quit. They may even want to quit. I've know some to quit many times before they are successful. But it's difficult.

I grew up in a house full of smokers and moved far away. When I go back to visit it's awful just breathing the air around them. A few days will leave my lungs and eyes burning and my clothes will need two washings to get the smell out. When I had my son he was premature. His doctor said it was very important to keep him away from second hand smoke. He will be susceptible to lung disease all his life so I asked my relatives to please not smoke around him. They were so insulted! They refused. O the drama.

Now I hate it when people stick their hand and cigarette out of the car window and let their smoke drift into other peoples cars because I worry about my little guy. But I never say anything.

So I totally get where you are coming from, but saying something would have been like rubbing salt into an open wound. Let's just hope that the little girl grows up, stays healthy and doesn't ever start smoking herself. Or develop lung disease.

Kinda sad that asking others not to pollute your air makes you the bad guy. But that's how it often works.

[Capt. Obvious]

44. I hope we can get this on the front page of DU

Proud to give this its first rec.

[packman]

45. Smoking is a true curse

I commented to a nurse during a stay at the hospital about patients either in wheelchairs or still hooked up to their IV's about them smoking standing under the covered extended porch roof at the hospital in the rain. She said that she has seen people recuperating after throat or lung surgery which was smoking related puffing away holding a cigarette into the holes they made in their throats to breathe.
I was a smoker for years, but one day just stopped. No reason. No motivation. Just stopped. I guess the memories of my father having to gasp for breath after a lung removal and my brother dying in a nursing home recovering after a palate and tongue removal just somehow told me to stop.
I count myself lucky for not going thru the agony of withdrawal and wish the best for those that will attempt to kick the "coffin nails".
Yes, I hate to be around smokers.
.

[MicaelS]

46. If you tried to take away someone's child for that ...

You would deserve almost anything the parent in question would do to you. I think a good old-fashioned "MYOB, go fuck yourself" would would do for a rousing start. But if it escalates to her punching you square in the mouth, then that would be just deserts. And I would vote "not guilty" for her.

I truly long for the day when cannabis is fully legal, and people can smoke it in public, in smoke shops, and in bars. And then let's see what happens to anti-smoking zealots when they try to tell people to stop smoking cannabis around them.

[Morning Dew]

47. One good thing to remember is that 90 per cent of everything is none of your business.

Another is that your opinion of others is generally none of their business.

[cthulu2016]

49. You sound like a bad person.

[Lizzie Poppet]

58. I fully agree with the "no smoking near a door" laws.

We have them here in Oregon, too...and they make sense. More from a quality-of-life standpoint than a medical one (it's cumulative exposure that make second hand smoke dangerous), but still a sensible regulation.

Out in the open, away from doors and windows? Much harder to justify, IMO.

[uppityperson]

105. Smudging with kale might help.

[Hekate]

152. Having an objectionable odor that wafts into your space is not the same as being deadly to you

I, too, have lived in apartments with permeable walls. It's not the same as living next door to a strawberry field being sprayed with methyl iodide. THAT'S toxic.

[Comrade Grumpy]

55. Go away.

[Politicalboi]

60. The smoke police are driving me mad

The smoke police, they live inside of my head.
The smoke police, they come to me in my bed.
The smoke police, they're coming to arrest me, oh no.

Really? Take the child away from their smoking parents. YOU are crazy!

IMO take children away from their parents who push religion on them. That IS more dangerous than smoking.

[leftyohiolib]

88. wow that's the dumbest thing i think ive read. religion doesnt give you lung cancer

religion has helped more people that smoking.

[SomethingFishy]

68. You ever been in the foster care system? Do you have the slightest idea what you are saying here?

Or is you hatred of smoking so deep that you would literally try to destroy a child to make your point?

A better question would be, "What would you say to that child when you are dragging them away from their fucking mother, kicking and screaming for you not to take them away?

"Sorry your mom is a smoker. You need to fit all your belongings into a garbage bag, throw it over your shoulder and come with us so we can place you in a home that may or may not give a shit about you. But make sure your whole life in is that one garbage bag so you feel worthless enough to be able to manipulate and move quickly should we need to place you again in a few weeks if your "new" parents decide they don't want you."

I hope that your post was done in ignorance, because if you know what the system is like and you still advocated this...

[alp227]

78. Sigh. there are people out there who I wish were not parents.

and I have heard the foster care horror stories. but it's a "pick your poison" situation in my mind.

[SomethingFishy]

109. No, it's not even close.

You have "heard". Yeah. Come back when you have lived it. Come back when all the people you love have been taken away from you, when your meager belongings are stuffed into a garbage bag, when any self esteem and any thought that you are worthy of love is taken from you. Because your mom smoked a cigarette.

There are people who shouldn't be parents. That is true. However smoking next to a kid outside is not grounds for destroying the lives of the child and the parent. Anyone who thinks it is should take a good hard look at themselves and decide whether it's really a love for the child that drives them, or the hatred for the parent.

[bettyellen]

143. you becoming a parent frightens me more- the lack of sense you have over what would be right for the

child - wanting to toss them into the foster system- is an absolutely ignorant horror show.

[Sheldon Cooper]

144. Seriously.

I was wondering if this person has kids, and has any idea of the horrors of foster care. I mean, the poor kid may be beaten, raped, and killed, but at least it wouldn't be around its horrible smoking mother.

[Sissyk]

220. +1000

Scary as shit thinking of them being a parent.

[boston bean]

69. Who were you going to call, the police?

How were you going to ruin their lives and take away her children?

In what fucking looney bin country to do you think you live. I know it's a bit fucked up. But hopefully not that fucked up.

But if you had made a complaint about that, ZERO would have happened, except maybe the person hearing your complaint was laughing their fat asses off at what a ridiculous call it was.

MYOB, would be my advice.

[Mariana]

204. The OP wasn't going to do shit

except fantasize about tearing a family apart, and then post here to tell us about that fantasy.

[Captain Stern]

215. I was wondering that too. I'm glad I read the whole thread before I responded.

The OP reads like the option to 'take away her children' (even though there was only one child) was actually there. Was he going to physically take her child away from her?...Probably not. Call the cops?..LOL.

I think think this guy/gal is just trolling for laughs.

[seabeyond]

70. if this is what you would teach a child, give me the smokin' parent. nt

[KT2000]

73. Perspective

One of the reasons you are concerned is because tons of research money has been put into studying cigarette smoke. Some of this came from settlements with the tobacco companies and some from local initiatives.

What you are not seeing is research about the chemical exposures that are inflicted on everyone, including children, that are having life altering effects. Lawn care products are especially dangerous to children and the developing fetus. Depending upon the timing of the exposures, some of those chemicals can affect brain development resulting in lifelong deficits.

You can research the effects of endocrine disrupting chemicals that are found in household and personal care products. Children and babies are routinely smeared and exposed to these chemicals. Personal care products do not have to be tested for safety.

My point is that tobacco research is overshadowing other exposures that may prove to be more even devastating. There is a lot of research but you will have to search it out yourself. After you do, you may want to go door to door in your neighborhood and tell people to stop using products on their lawn that could be affecting the whole neighborhood. Believe me - the smoking lady is nothing compared to what is being applied to babies and children.

[Zorra]

76. Relax! Smoking is actually good for children, kittens, and puppies.

When kids see adults smoke, they want to do it too, so they can be just like mom and/or dad!

I don't smoke, but I'm going to fake it when I'm around my young grandchildren, so I can set a good example for them, in the hope that they pick up the habit, and later maybe get emphysema and lung cancer, like the rest of the dead or dying smokers in my family did. And if they have children, they can pass this nice habit on to their children. I will always regret that I did not teach my kids to smoke; they missed soooo much by not being desperately addicted to nicotine over the course of their lives.


But if I can successfully teach the grandkids to smoke, it may once again become a proud family tradition and cycle, and hopefully, it will spread like a virus to the neighbor kids as well.

Learn how to smoke. Teach it to the kids.

Because smoking is smart, and good.

St. Ronny knew the truth!

[RiffRandell]

80. This is the first time you've seen this?

Jesus I'm old.

[deathrind]

81. Wow...

Too funny. Always been amazed by the selective nature of this issue

[amuse bouche]

118. It's funny?

I disagree with the OP that the kids should be taken away, but I fail to see the 'funny'

Why do you find it funny?

[deathrind]

187. The

Selective nature of the indignation. From an air quality stand point second hand smokes ranks fairly low to other pollutants we pump into the air we breath on a daily basis.

[amuse bouche]

192. Still not funny.

Kids of smokers do have a higher chance of getting asthma than non-smokers' children

So your dismissive attitude is kind of sad

[Douglas Carpenter]

84. I think we should establish government committees that closely monitor all potentially harmful or

anti-social behavior - especially anything children might be exposed to. Removing children from such situations will only occur after a sufficient warning. This way we can protect children and society in general not only from potential health hazards - but from negative social influences as well - while these dangerous miscreants are reeducated prior to reintroduction to society. Some nonconformists and their apologists may suggest that this might sound slightly authoritarian - when in fact it is simply a matter of having empathy for others.

[Bluenorthwest]

89. This is one of the most reprehenible and inhuman things I have ever seen on DU

'I HATE, take her kids from her'. Jesus.

[LiberalAndProud]

97. +

This says it. Jesus.

[KamaAina]

93. Take away her children?

Seems a bit harsh. Maybe start by telling her that smoking around children is bad for their health? As hard as it may be for us to believe, in our low-information society , not everybody knows that.

[Mariana]

150. In fact, the OP did nothing at all

except type up a post here. I wonder why not? If the child was being subjected to such harm, you'd think the OP would have said something to the mother. I know I speak up when I see a child that I think is in danger! I bet you do, too. Why didn't the OP?

[CVN-68]

155. A distinct lack of courage for their conviction?

[pintobean]

157. Communication can be difficult

through an OBA.

[Mariana]

166. !

[Lizzie Poppet]

156. That depends entirely on whether one thinks the child is indeed being harmed.

Outside in the open air, in the presence of a single smoker (and remember that cig smoke rises...), it's very much open to debate that the "harm" to the child is in any reasonable, empirical way significant.

Were I on the receiving end of a rant in such a situation (impossible, as I've never smoked and don't have kids), anyone getting up in my face would be told in no uncertain terms to fuck right off.

[CVN-68]

158. Well put.

If I were smoking in a place where it's legal, (I don't smoke) and some busybody asshole got up in my face haranguing me about smoking around my kids, I'd tell them to go pound a telephone pole up their ass.

[Mariana]

164. The OP thought the danger was so great

that the child should be taken from the parent, and yet said nothing.

[Autumn]

96. None of your business. Was her child beaten, bruised or starving?

Was she blowing smoke in the child's nose and lungs ? Were there any cars in the vicinity? None of your fucking business. If you've seen my posts I hate people who get all self righteous and think other people should have to suffer with the loss of a child and government getting all up in their business, because they don't like something. You are the type who would just love forced ulta sounds on women and their business.

[CVN-68]

101. Was it illegal for her to smoke where she was?

Are you saying that you personally wanted to take away her children? If so, that's called kidnapping and will land you a stretch in prison.

If not illegal where she was, I would suggest you mind your own business lest you run the risk of getting punched out.

[Nye Bevan]

103. Take a trip to Paris or Madrid and you will see this many times each day.

Disgusting and thoughtless.

[amuse bouche]

106. I detest smoking too

I've cared for hundreds of people with COPD, Lung Cancer and dozens of smoking related diseases. All terrible ways to die. It's heartbreaking to see families go through such needless and avoidable pain

There are millions of incompetent and abusive parents

Parents brainwash their children with religion. They feed them crap. They beat them. They molest them. They make them their slaves. They give them names like Hitler and The Messiah

Some cases are easy to decide...some, not so much. Where do we as a society draw a line?

As I said, I detest smoking, but no, the kids should not be taken away. Mom may need more education

[DesMoinesDem]

107. It's time to see a psychiatrist.

[gollygee]

113. I can't imagine the secondhand smoke is doing too much damage outside

the problem in a car is that the kids are trapped in that air. But there's a lot more available air outside.

For all you know she only smokes in the vicinity of her kid outside. And you must have no idea how traumatic it is for a kid to be taken away from her home if you think that would be preferable to the smoke.

[Adrahil]

116. TRUE STORY:

About 26 years ago, my nephew was 18 months old. I took of photo of my Mom holding him in one arm, and a cigarette in the other hand. She quit cold turkey the next day and never smoked again.

[Throd]

119. You are unhinged.

[JackRiddler]

130. Very true.

I hope you don't get a jury for saying the obvious.

[alp227]

194. My brain must be over-imaginative. I must be overly moralistic.

Sometimes you may think I hate the world for what it is but hey that's what I live through for having values.

[Sheldon Cooper]

201. Come down off the cross.

We could use the wood.

[LittleBlue]

123. It's a shame that she does this around her child

She should know better.

Taking the child away is too extreme, though. Aside from the awful aspect of separating mother and child, will the girl do better in a foster home? That's doubtful.

[Sheldon Cooper]

127. You have got to be fucking kidding me.

Take away the kid? Seriously? Get a life.

PS - I don't know where you live, but it's not illegal to smoke with kids in the car in PA.

[JackRiddler]

129. I saw this woman driving.

Indiscriminately poisoning everyone in the city with exhaust fumes. Absolutely everyone, including little babies. Pretty shocking!

[NCTraveler]

132. I can't make sense of your op.

Then again, Bloomberg and authoritarians often leave me in a state of confusion.

[Warpy]

133. How would you have felt if it was a MAN smoking around kids?

It's a valid question.

It's also none of your damned business. Some kids grow up hating the stink and never start and that's a good thing. In any case, it's legal behavior so put your eyes back in your head and move on.

Smoke isn't that dangerous to most people as long as it's not in a confined space. It just stinks.

[alp227]

137. ANYONE who smokes near kids is inconsiderate and unhealthy period. nt

[CVN-68]

142. ANYONE suggesting that children should be taken away because an adult

smokes near them where it's legal is inconsiderate and more.

[Bobbie Jo]

136. Wow.

Stay in school.

[pintobean]

141. Lol

But, maybe that's the problem.

[zappaman]

138. I don't remember any of this happening before 2008.

[mike_c]

140. did you drive your car or ride a bus to school...?

Because if you did, you added hydrocarbon emissions to the atmosphere that help to kill and sicken children all around the world, every day. Glass houses, and all that.

[BlueStreak]

145. All my smoker friends are dead

I'm not kidding. I'm 58 and I can't think of a single person in my nearby circle of friends, over age 55, who is a smoker and still alive. I've been to a fair number of funerals the past few years.

[Mariana]

154. How many of your friends are dead

because their parents smoked, outside, while they were nearby?

[BlueStreak]

182. I don't know

I was only thinking of the chain smokers. They are all dead.

[Vashta Nerada]

159. A lot of vitriol spewed towards you in this thread.

Sad.

[Lizzie Poppet]

160. No need for people to be nasty, I agree.

But the notion that someone should potentially have their child taken away from them because they smoked, outside in the open air, around them is pretty obviously going to elicit emotional responses. It's a pretty outrageous suggestion.

[Douglas Carpenter]

189. indeed

[Amaya]

163. Take away her kid because she smokes?

[adigal]

168. Are you kidding? I smoked when my kids were young, not in the house

but outside. And you really think my kids should have been taken away? Wow. Just crazy. No wonder people make fun of Dems as the Nanny State.

That is absurd. Really ridiculous. How about we look in your refrigerator and if you have any unhealthy food there or in your cabinets, we take your kids away.

This is one of the most absurd things I have ever seen on this site.

[Voice for Peace]

170. best to clean up our own shortcomings.. this would keep each of us so busy,

we'd have no time to be bothered by the faults and ways of others.

[bravenak]

174. Children get molested in foster care sometimes.

Why would you want to send a child there so you can stay on your soap box?
http://www.adn.com/2013/06/26/2954827/police-former-bethel-foster-father.html

[phil89]

179. You had to wonder if it was worth ruining someone's life?

That is reprehensible.

[Mariana]

183. Some people hate smokers so much

and want to punish them so badly they don't care who else gets hurt, including children.

[HockeyMom]

207. Health Ghettos

Round up all the Smokers. Round up all the Unvaccinated People. They cannot contaminate US. We are the PERFECT humans who will rule the world and become the Master Race.

Far fetched the way we are going and headed? Who is the supreme ruler now? The AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION.

[Skeeter Barnes]

185. The OP is just trolling.

[Rider3]

180. That's fine if you don't like it.

If you don't like it, don't smoke. But stay out of others' decisions. It's not your call.

[Ino]

186. Wow, you were too busy to save a child from perceived abuse?

But at least you're all moralistic about it. WTG!

[Lost_Count]

190. Please stay away from all children...

... and parents... and smokers... and women... and men...

You know what? Just keep those thoughts to yourself. People like you are the scary ones.

[krawhitham]

193. I'll just leave this here

[alp227]

196. Didn't watch it yet, but the guy in the thumbnail is right wing radio host Larry Elder,

and what credentials does he have in science? Hell, even P&T admitted they goofed with this episode.

[Tikki]

195. If we had these designated smoking areas for outside, it would actually benefit the smoker because..

there would be no minors allowed near that area…not the other way around.
The smokers would know exactly where they could smoke outside.

If a parent wanted to smoke outside in public places they would have to make arrangements to have
their children away from the area.

It would, also, point out to others that there is a place where smokers can congregate
and others would learn to respect that place or avoid it.

The places could be designated with signs and even marked on maps.

I know smoke drifts but well planned out designated areas could help with the tensions
smokers and non-smokers have with the situation.


Tikki

ps this pretty much exists with public alcohol consumption, some places yes and some places no…so nothing new.

[HockeyMom]

202. Do all you can working to ban cigarettes

Make them illegal, period. See if you can do that. The same with drinking. While you are at it, how about banning fat food too? Let's make everything that might be considered harmful to health illegal. 24 oz. cup of soda, anyone?

HEALTH? Well, I think a lot of people today need more MENTAL Health care.

[alp227]

203. Sigh...how many times do I have to correct the framing?

It's not banning because of harm to health but with other people being forced to inhale filth. If there were widespread cases of people being force fed fast food or alcohol boarded maybe I'd get more prohibitionist.

[HockeyMom]

217. Have you had every vaccination around too?

If not, these people can harm you too.

[alp227]

221. (Facepalm) ARE YOU SERIOUS? VACCINES? you compared tobacco to vaccines? nt

[Kilgore]

218. I don't like it, would never do it, it's disgusting.....but

It's legal.

If society finally decides to ban it, passes the necessary laws, then it's decided. Throw the bloke in jail.

Until then, we can just cluck and fret, and hopefully work hard to change the law.

Kilgore

[pa28]

205. The horror. The horror.

[dilby]

213. I remember as a kid my dad used to have me hold his cigerette while driving...

and he would crack open a beer, ah those were the days I sure miss the 60's and 70's. I am doing OK don't smoke, don't have lung cancer and I am sure that ladies little darling will do just fine too. But thanks for your concern, maybe you could go worry about children suffering from lack of clean water instead of the problems of a first world nation.