Have *you* actually read Sen. Feinstein's complaint?

[MannyGoldstein]

If you haven't, please grab a beverage, take a deep breath, and spend ten minutes reading:

Statement on Intel Committee’s CIA Detention, Interrogation Report

It's way, way worse then you think it is.

This is history: make sure that you don't miss it. Oh, and you oughta see what we're up against. Because we're up against it, right here, right now. And it's not going away under its own power - we'll need to do some heavy lifting, I fear.

Thanks to DUer CJCRANE for pointing me to it this morning.

[ProSense]

1. Yes, and

Have *you* actually read Sen. Feinstein's complaint?


If you haven't, please grab a beverage, take a deep breath, and spend ten minutes reading:

Statement on Intel Committee’s CIA Detention, Interrogation Report

It's way, way worse then you think it is.

...there is a lot of spinning in the media. Feinstein:

To be clear, the committee staff did not “hack” into CIA computers to obtain these documents as has been suggested in the press. The documents were identified using the search tool provided by the CIA to search the documents provided to the committee.

Second, when the staff found a document that was particularly important or that might be referenced in our final report, they would often print it or make a copy of the file on their computer so they could easily find it again. There are thousands of such documents in the committee’s secure spaces at the CIA facility.

Now, prior removal of documents by CIA. In early 2010, the CIA was continuing to provide documents, and the committee staff was gaining familiarity with the information it had already received.

<...>

I also want to reiterate to my colleagues my desire to have all updates to the committee report completed this month and approved for declassification. We’re not going to stop. I intend to move to have the findings, conclusions and the executive summary of the report sent to the president for declassification and release to the American people. The White House has indicated publicly and to me personally that it supports declassification and release.

Here is likely the best summation of events: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024648419

[sheshe2]

2. ...

[Logical]

42. wow, you love prosense post? Shocking! nt

[sheshe2]

50. I know, it is shocking indeed.

Damn I love facts!

Hair on fire, not so much.

[Logical]

51. Well, at least you kick her stuff and save her the trouble! nt

[sheshe2]

53. Oh my!

I do believe she linked to you kicking your own thread.

No I won't link to it, yet we both know it's there. It's a silly call out when you do it yourself, don't you think?

[Logical]

55. LOL, twice vs. 1000s.....nice try! The trouble with the hair on fire....

Apology is that some people are too biased to see it really is on fire at times!
It is fun watching your worship though!

[sheshe2]

58. You do it, you can't condemn it.

Doesn't matter if it's once, twice or thrice.

And I am so very glad that I am a source of amusement for you. I will do my best to keep up to your expectations.

[sabrina 1]

74. I kind of agree with you on not having the moral authority to lecture others when you do it yourself

What do you think about the US lecturing other countries on 'invading countries' considering our own recent and ongoing occupations?

I think you need to be free from guilt yourself before pointing fingers elsewhere.

[mindwalker_i]

60. You're dealing with religious zealots

And like most religious zealots, they relabel their beliefs as facts. Good luck, but I fear you're farting in Jupiter's great red spot.

[sheshe2]

61. Snort~

[Logical]

65. LOL, great point! Good description also! nt

[lark]

133. Facts?

Really? I'd never have guessed that.

[bvar22]

131. Their purpose is not to convince anyone of anything.

It is to thoroughly hijack, pollute and therefore eliminate public spaces where real discussion and organization can occur. Occupy is disbanded with clubs and pepper spray. Dissent and organization online are disrupted with surveillance and propaganda.

It is no accident that propaganda brigades post new threads on discussion boards far out of proportion to their presence in the community, and that they nearly *always* demand the last word in any interchange.

The goal is to disrupt the important public space for liberal thought, discussion, and organization that these boards offer, and to keep the participants busy instead batting off the corporate lies and talking points.

woo me with science Sun Jul 28, 2013

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023359801

...and they sure jump in fast.
How is it they seem to always get in the 1st response to a thread?
It appears that some have nothing else to do but hover over DU,
finger on the button,
generic Cut & Paste NonPost ready to go,
just waiting for a Liberal Democrat to post something.

How DO they do it?

Do they really believe they are somehow "helping" their president by attacking Liberals?

[Rex]

152. Authoritarians will ALWAYS be the enemy of liberals.

It is like a certain group...imo the POTUS would be sad to learn that there is a group here that pretends to support him with blind loyalty...sadly not all Obama supporters are allowed...just the ones that are embarrassed of open conversation. So really, the name of the group is incorrect.

[bvar22]

161. The sad part is that they don't realize that I (we) ARE Obama supporters,

but MORE importantly,
passionate Democratic Party supporters who have realized that the very best way we can help the Democratic Party is to hold OUR party to the high standards set by FDR and LBJ with the New deal and The Geat Society.

Passively going along with anything the Party or its leaders say or do is NOT the way to support the President OR support the Party....or your Husband or Wife for that matter.
That road of submissive subservience is the road to ruin... and more than a little creepy.

"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole.

Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right.

Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. [font size=3]To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.[/font]"

T. Roosevelt in the Kansas City Star,
May 7, 1918

[sabrina 1]

191. I remember that quote from TR. Used it for Wing Nuts back in the Bush days.

Naturally they were so 'loyal' to the president, they were incapable of understanding it. And yes, their blind loyalty enabled Bush to commit the crimes he and cabal of war criminals were responsible for. A perfect example of what TR meant to convey.

And if there is a chance that this president wants to do the right thing regarding this situation, he NEEDS the support of the people to overcome the rogues within our government. Having that support makes his position easier. Which is why I don't understand the effort to simply cover it all up. How does that help him assuming he wants to do what is right?

[MannyGoldstein]

5. Can you be specific as to the "spin" that's mischaracterizing the situation?

The CIA is accusing the committee staff of hacking the CIA's computers. The CIA has referred them to be criminally prosecuted.

In reality, it seems that the CIA hacked the committee's computers.

Apparently, all of this is just fine with The Transparency President™, just fine.

[ProSense]

7. Cute

"In reality, it seems that the CIA hacked the committee's computers.

Apparently, all of this is just fine with The Transparency President™, just fine."

...you apparently have issues with Feinstein's statement even as you're hyping it as "worse then (sic) you think it is."

It's bad, but too bad for you it has nothing to do with Obama and "transparency."

See:

I also want to reiterate to my colleagues my desire to have all updates to the committee report completed this month and approved for declassification. We’re not going to stop. I intend to move to have the findings, conclusions and the executive summary of the report sent to the president for declassification and release to the American people. The White House has indicated publicly and to me personally that it supports declassification and release.

[MannyGoldstein]

8. You're either intoxicated, or trying to divert people on purpose.

Please stop.

[ProSense]

9. LOL!

[840high]

30. Not one bit funny,

[DeSwiss]

104. LOL this as well:

- And laugh-off all those tortured innocents that the CIA and Dianne and the WH would rather not be mentioned. Nobody in the Senate, the CIA nor the WH gives a shit about them either.......

[msanthrope]

35. "The White House has indicated publicly and to me personally that it supports declassification

and release."

I can totally see why you would not want that focused on.

[MannyGoldstein]

37. That's totally the main point of this.

Did your parents have any children that lived?

Jury: please put me out of my misery.

[msanthrope]

39. You seem upset that DiFi and the President are in accord. Why? nt

[MannyGoldstein]

43. We seem to be living on alternate universes, you and I

I see a bank robbery. You see the robber and clerk touching hands, sharing an intimate moment.

[msanthrope]

44. I thought you were alerting on yourself? What happened? nt

[MannyGoldstein]

46. Yow!

[lonestarnot]

49. OMG that exchange was fucking funny!

[glinda]

63. I agree

[sabrina 1]

76. Lol, excellent way to describe it. n/t

[DisgustipatedinCA]

159. If you really believe they're in accord, and if your billing rate is more than $7.00 per hour...

...you're ripping off your clientele.

[Luminous Animal]

172. :) I find myself thinking similar often. Thanks for saying it.

[bvar22]

193. Anybody can claim to be anything on the Internet.

George Costanza is an architect,
and I am Anastasia,
the long lost heir to the Russian Throne.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

194. I distinctly recall that Costanza is a marine biologist. :)

In seriousness, I have no reason to doubt that the poster in question is an attorney, but I also believe she uses her profession as a cudgel to get her way in arguments. And she's not always right.

[progressoid]

67. Diversion and obfuscation.

Sadly, because it's been done so much that if she actually has a valid point, people just ignore it because of all of the previous smoke screens and detours.

[GoneFishin]

176. I will need to replace my scroll mouse soon from zipping over those posts so often, for

exactly the reason you stated.

[sabrina 1]

75. What do you think about the main issue underlying all the obvious issues, Torture, the CIA torturing

people. What should happen, what will happen? Nothing happened the last time torture was revealed, Manning, remember, well nothing happened to the torturers or those who approved it, Chelsea Manning was tortured herself and then jailed for 35 years.

So what can we expect to happen to the torturers this time?

I want to see war criminals in jail. Always have.

[JDPriestly]

127. If Obama supports declassification and release of the committee report,

but the CIA is requestin that the committee be investigated or prosecuted in conjunction with the committee's accessing certain documents in preparing that report, then the CIA is acting independently and not as a department under the control of the executive, of Obama.

That would suggest that the CIA is a rogue agency that considers itself to be independent of, if not superior to, the President.

That is what is wrong with this situation.

The various intelligence agencies appear to be acting outside our constitutional form of government. That is a serious crisis if true. And it does appear to be true. The CIA and NSA should act only within the narrow confines of the authority they are granted by Congress and by the President. If there is a conflict between what Congress and the CIA believe is right, and if the CIA is acting properly within the command of the White House, then we have a constitutional crisis. We have to ask who is in charge.

Here are the relevant portions of the Constitution that should be considered, I think in answering that question with regard to the treatment of prisoners captured in war or overseas:

Article I, section 8:

To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;

To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;

To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

To provide and maintain a navy;

To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articlei

And remembering that Congress is authorized to "make rules concerning captures on land and water" and to "define and punish . . . offenses against the law of nations," the president's responsibility is:

The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States; he may require the opinion, in writing, of the principal officer in each of the executive departments, upon any subject relating to the duties of their respective offices, and he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.

He shall have power, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to make treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, shall appoint ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, judges of the Supreme Court, and all other officers of the United States, whose appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by law: but the Congress may by law vest the appointment of such inferior officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the courts of law, or in the heads of departments.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articleii

Neither the President nor Congress has total power over matters of foreign policy, war and the treatment of prisoners of war. They are supposed to work together. Congress is fulfilling its oversight duties when reviewing the actions of the executive branch with regard to the treatment of prisoners. No CIA documents should be so secret that the members of Congress charged with overseeing the activities of the CIA may not have them. That degree of secrecy would make it impossible for Congress to exercise the authority that the Constitution grants it.

President Obama needs to get better control over the CIA and require the CIA to cooperate with Congress.

[cui bono]

130. Excellent. Thank you. n/t

[DirkGently]

135. Ding ding. Intelligence agencies aspire to be the 4th branch of government.

... and maybe they already are.

Surveillance and secrecy is a potent combination of powers.

[JDPriestly]

141. Yes. Precisely.

We need both surveillance and secrecy to a certain extent. But they easily overtake those branches of government because surveillance and secrecy are the means to overwhelming power.

[Aerows]

142. It also comes down to

whether you think the CIA is acting in good faith, or if a Democratic Senator is lying. I don't much care for Dianne Feinstein, but I have a real problem with automatically assuming she a liar when there are plenty of Republicans sitting on the Intelligence Committee with her who would eagerly throw any Democrat under the bus for political gain if she was making a mountain out of a molehill, breaking the law or lying.

[JDPriestly]

143. I think she is telling the truth although I do not like her much.

She gave an excellent speech on global warming in the climate change overnighter on Monday night. She has some good qualities, some bad. I think she needs to leave the Senate.

[Aerows]

145. I can't see how she wouldn't be

if 14-1, most of the Republicans agree with her that the CIA was obstructing justice and inhibiting their job of oversight, telling the truth.

The CIA, as usual, overstepped their bounds and thought they were above the law. Most of the time, it appears they are and don't give a crap about the law.

They did what they always do, to quote Peter Goss: Admit nothing, Deny everything, and file counter charges.

[zeemike]

147. Well said and well framed.

this is a very serious problem, one that even the BOG cannot rationalize away.

[sabrina 1]

175. Excellent post, thank you! The only way to stop all of this is for the American people to know what

they have been doing in their name and then to rise up en masse against those who have tried to subvert the very foundations of this democracy. That is treason, and there are NO, ZERO, excuses for it, no way to try to explain it. And from now on anyone who does that, needs to be avoided because no citizen of this country, knowing what is being exposed almost on a daily basis now, would even try to excuse it.

[Voice for Peace]

123. I'm glad they're not going to stop, but then what?

also want to reiterate to my colleagues my desire to have all updates to the committee report completed this month and approved for declassification. We’re not going to stop. I intend to move to have the findings, conclusions and the executive summary of the report sent to the president for declassification and release to the American people. The White House has indicated publicly and to me personally that it supports declassification and release.

If the Senate can declassify this report, we will be able to ensure that an un-American, brutal program of detention and interrogation will never again be considered or permitted.

If this report, which she says is worse than they had initially been
told by CIA, is declassified and released to the public, what then?

Public demand for prosecutions? Without some accounting, such a
report will not be good for any international relationships.

How do we make sure it never again will be considered or permitted?
I remember the days when they'd have a bunch of heads on stakes at
the gate to the city, to encourage lawfulness.

[lark]

132. Absolutely unbelievable

I am dumbstruck! If Bush had done this you would have been so up in arms. Is there anything in the world that a person in the Obama administration could possibly do that you might actually agree was unwarranted? CIA spying on Senate, no problem if it's the Republican hired by Obama. CIA spying on all Americans for no reason, again no problem for you.

Don't worry, I won't be replying to any of your posts anymore. There's no logic, just a consistent and profound belief that Obama is God or at least the only perfect person ever born and so is everyone he appoints. I've never been into cults of personality so won't contribute anything else to this one.

Have a good day.

[Aerows]

144. And in effect

calling a Democratic Senator a liar. As though there aren't 7 Republicans on the committee that would cheerfully throw her under the bus for political gain if she is lying, making a mountain out of a molehill or breaking the law.

No, the actions by the committee which is bipartisan tells me that the CIA went way too far and pissed them off unilaterally enough to stand together on this issue.

It's their duty to oversee Intelligence Agencies. Obstructing that ability is breaking the law.

[LondonReign2]

146. The answer is no

No, no, no.

Defend and derail are the only objectives, though mostly in the reverse order.

[grahamhgreen]

149. OMG, you are defending torture now??? Really, you think it's OK to torture people? Really???

[ProSense]

156. Are your comprehensions skills that bad? Seriously?

OMG!!!

Faux silliness.

[grahamhgreen]

160. Do you think it is wrong to torture people? If someone has tortured an individual, should they be

prosecuted?

[Aerows]

151. So you are calling 8 Democratic Senators liars?

I would expect you to call 7 Republicans that sit on the committee with them liars, but the 8 Democrats?

That's a new one for you ProSense.

[ProSense]

157. Please, point to where your comment has anything remotely to do with what I posted.

"That's a new one for you ProSense. "

Aerows, your comment makes zero sense. The reason it doesn't makes sense, Aerows, is because your interpretation of my comment has nothing to do with what I posted.

Nice try, Aerows.

LOL!

[Aerows]

158. So you are

and can't refute that.

Gotcha.

Oh, and

Just for you .

[enough]

3. It took me longer than 10 minutes to read, and as a citizen, I will read it again.

Thank you for posting this.

[grasswire]

4. I agree. History is being made, right now.

A constitutional crisis is upon us.

[WillyT]

6. Thank You For That !!! - K & R !!!

[adirondacker]

10. Can't I just wait for the cartoon synopsis? They seem to be more accurate. nt

[Catherina]

11. I read it last night and highlighted the important parts

It's worse than most people can imagine. There's no oversight. Snowden, Binney, Thomas, all the whistleblowers certain people love to hate, are more than vindicated for the warnings about an out of control intelligence complex.

[grasswire]

12. so good to have you back here, Catherina. nt

[Catherina]

26. Thanks Grasswire

I don't know for how long though because I'm taking advantage of a break to post here. I bit off more than I can chew with some social commitments and am trying to pawn one of them off so I have time to post again. But thank you

[dixiegrrrrl]

112. I do hope you pop in more often.

Lots of people were asking about you
and your posts are very illuminating.

[Catherina]

138. Thanks! I'll definitely try to

Right now I'm trying to pawn one of my projects off on someone else. I've half-convinced them they're better qualified anyway lol. If that works, I'll have lots more time again.

[Autumn]

13. Very interesting.

"We believe these documents were written by CIA personnel to summarize and analyze the materials that had been provided to the committee for its review. The Panetta review documents were no more highly classified than other information we had received for our investigation—in fact, the documents appeared to be based on the same information already provided to the committee.

What was unique and interesting about the internal documents was not their classification level, but rather their analysis and acknowledgement of significant CIA wrongdoing.

To be clear, the committee staff did not “hack” into CIA computers to obtain these documents as has been suggested in the press. The documents were identified using the search tool provided by the CIA to search the documents provided to the committee.

We have no way to determine who made the Internal Panetta Review documents available to the committee. Further, we don’t know whether the documents were provided intentionally by the CIA, unintentionally by the CIA, or intentionally by a whistle-blower."

[MannyGoldstein]

14. This is unbelievable stuff

No matter how cynical I am... it's always worse.

[Enthusiast]

96. Imagine the very worst, Manny.

Then you'll be in the ballpark.

[tridim]

99. Imagining the very worst is why Manny exists on DU.

Listen to what Manny says, believe the opposite.

[Enthusiast]

100. I feel the exact opposite. Manny brings the insight!

There are no ulterior motives with Manny. No one is paying him to be on here calling out bad decision making and worse policy.

[L0oniX]

114. "unbelievable" NO ...it's totally believable!

I am surprised that anyone with half a brain would think that after cointelpro things would get better. I mean they have even gone after the little things like keeping pictures/video of the military coffins from the public. I believe there is nothing they won't do and I believe they know or think they can do anything they want.

[KoKo]

134. She says 3rd possibility of a Whistle Blower....That's something new to think about...

"Further, we don’t know whether the documents were provided intentionally by the CIA, unintentionally by the CIA, or intentionally by a whistle-blower.""

[Autumn]

136. That jumped out at me.

It had to have been unintentionally by the CIA, or intentionally by a whistle-blower, provided intentionally by the CIA just doesn't make sense.

[myrna minx]

155. That's rather breathtaking. n/t

[steve2470]

15. wow...incredible

If Senator Feinstein is 100% accurate, her statement is extraordinary. The CIA is attempting to override the Constitution and impose its will upon Congress.

Note I made the caveat of 100% accuracy. Time will tell.

[glinda]

64. shit hitting fan

[truedelphi]

167. Those of us who have stated again and again that NSA spying on Americans is

Illegal find this whole incident vastly entertaining.

Somehow it is very very bad for the CIA to spy on the computers of Feinstein's staff, but perfectly acceptable if done by the NSA spying on us and the content on our devices.

Hmm....

[grasswire]

16. I find this one tidbit compelling

"While we viewed this as unnecessary and raised concerns that it would delay our investigation, the CIA hired a team of outside contractors—who otherwise would not have had access to these sensitive documents—to read, multiple times, each of the 6.2 million pages of documents produced, before providing them to fully-cleared committee staff conducting the committee’s oversight work. This proved to be a slow and very expensive process."

So the CIA hired outside contractors to review 6.2 million pages of documents before the fully cleared career congressional staffers could see them.

How f*cked up is that?

[MannyGoldstein]

17. That made me do a spit take

Incredible.

Incredible.

[grasswire]

20. yeah, it's insane

CIA is so dad-gummed set on absolute secrecy about this report, but then they hire contractors to read the whole 6,200,000 pages? Who are these super secret contractors? To whom do they report? Who vets them? What sort of confidentiality contract do they sign?

No words for this, really.

[Oilwellian]

27. We know there are many contractors who work for the BFEE

I wouldn't put it past them to attempt a white-wash of their criminal behavior.

Stunning read. Really. No words.

K&R

[struggle4progress]

85. The reason is: contractors can be used to obscure responsibility and diffuse blame

The CIA has an agreement with the Senate committee. But the CIA carries out portions of the agreement through contractors. The contractors don't have an agreement with the committee: the contractors are instead governed by (say) a contract with the CIA. Although it would be obviously non-kosher for the CIA to directly instruct the contractors to behave in a manner contrary to the CIA's agreement with the committee, there's lots of room there for obfuscation through supposed "misunderstandings" or "misstatements" and so on

[2banon]

86. that's a likely reason.. it's still stunning.

[struggle4progress]

87. I don't find it "stunning" at all: it's been going on for years, and IMO it's been a big part

of the rightwing push for privatizing and/or outsourcing government operations

"Forewarned is forearmed"

[2banon]

89. I understand and know that.. but this is entirely different level. n/t

[sabrina 1]

129. Crime is always stunning, no matter how much we 'knew' about it or for how long. It's even more

stunning THAT we knew about it and it is ongoing and apparently getting worse rather than being stopped.

And no, it isn't just right wingers now. We elected Democrats to put a stop to all this nearly six years ago. By not doing so they, anyone who voted to fund these crooked corporations, is now complicit.

[ProSense]

22. I find this compelling

The most sought-after documents on torture, ones the CIA is desperate to keep from the public, were created/turned over by Leon Panetta.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024654245

[steve2470]

23. I glossed over that part

Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

[sabrina 1]

79. Never missing an opportunity to fund the Private Security Corporations. I wonder how much THAT cost

the taxpayers.

This needs to be changed. Privatization of our National Security, the billions of wasted dollars, no oversight of these morons. These Private Businesses were not elected, but Bush/Cheney were the ones who made this 'business opportunity' (9/11) grow like a weed, farming out everything, war, security especially.

If anything comes from this, it should be that Congress start working for their living rather than passing their duties along to a bunch of War Mongering profiteers and sending the bill to the American people.

[L0oniX]

116. "cost" ...hmmm isn't that a secret too?

More and more I am entertaining the belief that there is a shadow US government who really controls it all.

[sabrina 1]

126. Yes, all we know is that billions of tax dollars have been along to Private Security

contractors under the guise of fighting 'terror'. As we now know, in 12 years they have not caught a single terrorist, including one they should have caught, the Boston Bomber.

You would think that with this info, Congress would have cancelled all future contracts and started doing the job they were elected to do. But they seem to have no power other than to rubber stamp all these policies, as Conyers said in Fahrenheit 9/11, without even reading the bills.

[L0oniX]

128. Maybe they pay people to read the bills for them?

Too busy playing golf or attending lobbyist yacht parties to be reading silly bills.

[2banon]

153. I had a mind to call her office and get that $ amt for the record

She has this very annoying penchant for understating/omitting selective details in general and as a matter of habit

This is partly why this affair of going public with as much as she has thus far is so astonishing at first glance. Due to the way my brain is wired, something doesn't add up which calls up all sorts of intriguing speculation as regards to her motives for her going public at this juncture, given her well established role as chief protector and
staunch defender of the authoritarian state as well as protector of state secrets.

For reasons not clear at this time, she seems to be throwing them under the bus, which is survivable. Let's see if she actually throws them to the wolves where they belong.

[questionseverything]

162. 42 million i think

marci wheeler named the cost of the contractors in her interview with brad

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=10535

mp3 is at bottom of article

I thought marci had an amazing grasp of this whole deal and the time line

[2banon]

168. Thanks again!

[sabrina 1]

164. Yes, this is very out of character for her. Whatever is motivating her, I would be surprised if she

has had a fit of conscience over role in helping to support the undermining of the people's rights.

Could be she fears what they have found out about her and others.

Otoh, miracles sometimes happen. Maybe she woke up and realized the harm those she supports so loyally have done to this country??

Well, we can dream ....

[2banon]

83. Yes grasswire, that caught my attention too, scraped jaw from floor.. yeah private contractors

reading this highly classified stuff. omg.

[woo me with science]

84. +1000000

[uppityperson]

91. Seriously, that caught me attention in a big way also. It made me want to finish the whole thing,

not just skim through. That makes no sense.

[jsr]

18. It is worth reading.

[woo me with science]

19. "I view the acting general counsel’s referral as a potential effort to intimidate this staff"

As I mentioned before, our staff involved in this matter have the appropriate clearances, handled this sensitive material according to established procedures and practice to protect classified information, and were provided access to the Panetta Review by the CIA itself. As a result, there is no legitimate reason to allege to the Justice Department that Senate staff may have committed a crime. I view the acting general counsel’s referral as a potential effort to intimidate this staff—and I am not taking it lightly.

I should note that for most, if not all, of the CIA’s Detention and Interrogation Program, the now acting general counsel was a lawyer in the CIA’s Counterterrorism Center—the unit within which the CIA managed and carried out this program. From mid-2004 until the official termination of the detention and interrogation program in January 2009, he was the unit’s chief lawyer. He is mentioned by name more than 1,600 times in our study.

And now this individual is sending a crimes report to the Department of Justice on the actions of congressional staff—the same congressional staff who researched and drafted a report that details how CIA officers—including the acting general counsel himself—provided inaccurate information to the Department of Justice about the program.

[grasswire]

21. Rogue. nt

[Autumn]

24. Are the Panetta Review doc what has the CIA in a snit and trying to get the DOJ

on the staffers?

"We have no way to determine who made the Internal Panetta Review documents available to the committee. Further, we don’t know whether the documents were provided intentionally by the CIA, unintentionally by the CIA, or intentionally by a whistle-blower."

That's what she said in the report.

[Catherina]

29. Yes, the Panetta Internal Review. And I'll take C for $500 Alex, "intentionally by a whistle-blower"

They weren't supposed to see it. There's also a snit that she dared complain when they surreptitiously removed other documents they didn't want them to see.

And I'll take C for $500 Alex, "intentionally by a whistle-blower". Snowden did warn them there were many others who were sick of what was going on because they signed on to serve their country, not to deceive the American people and our representatives.

[woo me with science]

73. Yes, it seems it was never meant to be seen.

The internal review just happened to be in the massive, disorganized dump of information that the CIA dropped on the committee, apparently trying to make relevant information harder to find. Looks like possibly a whistleblower took advantage of the "dump" and slipped the bombshell internal CIA review of itself into the mix.

In the internal review, the CIA overtly acknowledges doing things that they have DENIED to Congress.

CIA hacks the committee's computer during the report process. Some information disappears.

Committee expresses alarm over CIA behavior, demands accounting. They also use completely legal channels to move other remaining information to a safer place.

CIA responds with unfounded accusations of criminality to Justice Dept. that are interpreted as a threat by Feinstein.

Did I get that right? Worth a second read tomorrow.

Of course, that doesn't even get into the outrageous revelations even earlier in the statement, including the INCREDIBLE sharing of this information with a bunch of hired contractors given greater access than the Congress's own Committee on Intelligence...as grasswire rightly pointed out above. Also...did you see Scuba's post in this thread? It's a great summary of *many* jaw-dropping revelations in the statement.

At the risk of mixing metaphors, this is absolutely unfathomable stuff. This is the country watching the slimy brown apple quiver, and the worms start to come tumbling out.

[2banon]

93. you got it right..woo, it's an amazing Difi went public with this full on. .

curious about that, too. knowing what we know, which is not to say it's close to being enough.. but you get my point, i think, eh?

[glinda]

66. Did she put this on record because they are threatened? My impression....

[woo me with science]

78. Getting perceived threats on record would certainly seem important.

I can see how anyone who felt threatened by the CIA might feel a little more comfortable having the threats on record.

She is certainly explicit: "I view the acting general counsel’s referral as a potential effort to intimidate this staff"

[Marr]

70. Wow.

What can you even say. It's like the intelligence establishment has metastasised.

[woo me with science]

82. The OP is right.

We are witnessing history.

[L0oniX]

113. ...something about that octapus logo?

[2banon]

88. I missed the mention of the actual name of that unit chiefs lawyer, do you know what it is?

[bobduca]

25. One layer of indirection solves almost any problem! this had three

Last edited Wed Mar 12, 2014, 11:13 PM - Edit history (1)

"In May of 2010, the committee staff noticed that [certain] documents that had been provided for the committee’s review were no longer accessible. Staff approached the CIA personnel at the offsite location, who initially denied that documents had been removed. CIA personnel then blamed information technology personnel, who were almost all contractors, for removing the documents themselves without direction or authority. And then the CIA stated that the removal of the documents was ordered by the White House. When the committee approached the White House, the White House denied giving the CIA any such order."

[truedelphi]

166. And you are discussing simply the physical reality of what happened in this instance and when.

The larger "gestalt" of the situation is this one:

Here is a Senator who has declared publicly that it is perfectly noble and good for the NSA and its illegal operations to have the "go ahead" to spy on ALL Americans, but now she is protesting when such crimes are committed by the CIA against her and her staff.

Your computer or my computer is mere fodder for the illegal meta data gathering done by the NSA that Feinstein professes to support. But her computer and that of the staff is not fodder for any alphabet agency to investigate.

So is her outrage real? Or is it a totally contrived event to make the public think that here is a dedicated civil servant who loves us having out freedoms?

Or is it some combination of the above?

I'd be willing to judge her outrage as being real when she starts harping on the many deplorable and illegal techniques utilized by the alphabet agency personnel. One example: how the FBI's officers entrap the mentally ill into the purchase, under their specific direction, of items that can be used for detonation, and then that personnel outs their victim and declares they have saved us all from yet another terrorist attack.

[bobduca]

171. I appreciate your skepticism

My senator is the worst on the important issues. She's a war-profiteering parasite at best.

That being said I think she is so authoritarian that she takes her role of oversight "seriously" in that she's convinced she is helping, I think her outrage is real, but that she still feels that the program is fine when applied to everyone in the world except for her committee.

[Newsjock]

28. There you go again ...

... making sense like a pro.

"Constitutional crisis" is not an exaggeration.

[pscot]

31. Thanks Manny

This is the first time I've seen the whole thing. Brennan was the guy the President had to have as CIA director. Yet somehow the buck never reaches the oval office.

[Scuba]

32. Mr. Goldstein, I have a few questions ...

1. Who was the member of the Senate Intelligence Committe who voted "no" in the 14-1 vote on March 5, 2009, when the Committee voted to initiate a comprehensive review of the CIA Detention and Interrogation Program? Just curious.

2. Do you find it troubling that when the Senate Intelligence Committee asks the CIA to produce documents, the CIA proposes an alternative arrangement?

3. Do you find it troubling that the Senate Intelligence Committee doesn't smack their knuckles with a ruler when they propose an alternative?

4. Are you flabbergasted that when the CIA determined would not allow Congress to see certain documents, they outsourced their document selection process to "outside contractors"?

5. Do these "outside contractors" have higher security clearances than members of the Senate Intelligence Committee?

6. Do you think the CIA's forwarding of millions of documents "without any index, without organizational structure" was an attempt to obsfucate the content of some sensitive documents? (Or am I just an overly-suspicious person?)

7. Do you find it troubling that the IT personnel at the secure facility that the CIA originally blamed for removing documents were "almost all contractors"?

8. What do you make of the CIA claiming the White House ordered the documents removed and the White House denying this?

9. Do you find it curious that there have been claims in press that the Senate Intelligence Committee gained access to documents to which they had no right? (Debunked by DiFi.)

10. To repeat DiFi's own question: How can the CIA’s official response to the Committee's study stand factually in conflict with its own "Internal Panetta Review&quot ? Does this alone not constitute an attempt to deceive the Committee?

11. Are you astonished that the CIA denied the Senate Intelligence Committee access to the final Panetta Review?

12. Do you find it troubling that the CIA refuses to answer the 12 questions that DiFi sent to Brennan on January 23rd? Or more to the point, that the CIA seems to be blowing off requests from the Committee responsible for their oversight?

13. Do you agree that the CIA spying on their bosses is a bigger scandal than the CIA Detention and Interrogation program they appear to be trying to cover up? Are you experiencing any sense of deja vu?

14. Will our Republic survive this crisis?

[MannyGoldstein]

45. You're a sick, twisted individual.

1. Idunno.

2. Yes.

3. Yes.

4. My brain exploded when I saw that.

5. If so, then we're utterly #%^*ed.

6. Yep.

7. Incredibly troubling.

8. Someone needs to be fired, right quick.

9. I should be more curious, but I suspect we know what happened.

10. Clearly, something is rotten in Denmark.

11. Disturbed, but not surprised.

12. Very disturbed.

13. Who is a bigger idiot? Bachmann or Palin? Some questions are tough to comprehend.

14. At least in the short term. Long term, we need some serious action to right the thing.

[L0oniX]

107. "serious action to right the thing" ...the stuff dreams are made of?

I have given up the fight. All that remains is resentment, apathy, pessimism (more just can't think of all the words to use because I am angry) and years of anger management classes.

[woo me with science]

80. ^^^^^^^^^^^Excellent, excellent post.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Very nice summary of MANY jaw-dropping revelations in the report.

[grasswire]

90. outstanding, Scuba

Please post as an OP. I might just send it to my senator (Wyden) if that's okay with you.

[woo me with science]

92. Seconding the request to post as an OP.

This needs to be seen.

[Scuba]

120. Done ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024655603

[Scuba]

121. Done. Feel free to send to Wyden, although he doesn't appear to need much help.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024655603

[2banon]

94. Scuba, THIS needs to be it's own thread!

[Scuba]

119. Done ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024655603

[sibelian]

97. Third request for this as an OP.

:wave:

[L0oniX]

108. 4th

[Scuba]

117. Done ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024655603

[Scuba]

118. Done ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024655603

[L0oniX]

106. Smoke from the dark shadow US government...

the government behind the government.

[pacalo]

33. The CIA's (unnamed) acting general counsel is the one to watch.

(...) the acting general counsel of the CIA filed a crimes report with the Department of Justice concerning the committee staff’s actions.

(...)

I should note that for most, if not all, of the CIA’s Detention and Interrogation Program, the now acting general counsel was a lawyer in the CIA’s Counterterrorism Center—the unit within which the CIA managed and carried out this program. From mid-2004 until the official termination of the detention and interrogation program in January 2009, he was the unit’s chief lawyer. He is mentioned by name more than 1,600 times in our study.

[bobduca]

38. Robert Eatinger

Yeah he wouldn't have a vested interest in "moving forward" now would he?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/federal_government/cia-lawyer-at-center-of-computer-snooping-clash/2014/03/12/764290e4-a9b6-11e3-8a7b-c1c684e2671f_story.html

[pacalo]

48. Feinstein's senate floor speech backfired beautifully.

No longer will Robert Eatinger be able to maintain the 'low-profile' he apparently needed.

Thanks for the article; you should probably post it as an OP.

About those 92 videotapes of torture & the timing of it...

Eatinger was one of two CIA lawyers who reportedly told the director of the CIA’s clandestine service in 2005 there were no legal requirements for the agency to hold onto 92 videotapes that showed the abusive tactics used by its interrogators against al-Qaida prisoners. Although Eatinger and the other lawyer did not specifically sanction it, the CIA official, Jose Rodriguez, later ordered the tapes destroyed.

Rodriguez’s destruction of the tapes in late 2005 in an industrial-strength shredder came despite objections by the Bush administration’s White House counsel and the director of national intelligence. The CIA director at the time, Michael Hayden, assured senators that Rodriguez hadn’t destroyed evidence because there were still written cables describing what the videotapes showed, but Feinstein said Tuesday the cables downplayed the brutality of the program.

“The conditions of confinement and interrogations were far different and far more harsh than the way the CIA had described them to us,” Feinstein said. She said Senate staff was justified in removing a copy of an internal CIA report from a CIA computer that had been lent to the staff and bringing it to their secure offices on Capitol Hill because the CIA previously had destroyed material relevant to its investigation in the form of the videotapes.

...reminded me of a huge shredder truck photographed outside Dick Cheney's house back in 2006:



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2690158

[bobduca]

59. deminks posted it early this AM but it sank ...

Seems to be the same AP article as the one on WAPO.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024649476#post2

[pacalo]

62. I just gave it a K&R.

[KoKo]

140. Is it possible that copies of the photos were in the report Feinstein saw?

If she said the details were much worse than the "cables" then how would she know unless she'd seen photos. Were photos slipped into the report and that's what she's talking about above saying "documents were put in and taken out by CIA or possible Whistleblower."

That would be something. If those photos were saved somewhere and she or staffers saw them and then knew they were removed.

This is sounding very much more serious than it seemed at first..

[2banon]

154. Doesn't Seymour Hersch have copies? Or his source?

It's been so many years, I'm losing track of who had what story and the evidence. I thought it was him?

[KoKo]

163. Hey...that's interesting!

Haven't thought about that article from Seymour Hersh in years, either. But, he did say he had worse than we had seen and said something about releasing them...but..didn't hear anymore about it.

I don't want to be "CT" ...but you brought up that memory and I don't think it ever went anywhere. But...for DiFi or Senate Intell to sit on those photos for this long...would be kind of odd. Unless Hersh released them to someone in CIA and that person was whistleblower who inserted them into the documents or they got in there somehow from someone at the CIA who was sympathetic to Hersh.

We forget that not everyone in CIA is like the Extremists we hear about. Valerie Plame was CIA...so there may be a bigger group than we know trying to reform all this in any way they can. So maybe it could be Sy's photos replaced ones CIA Destroyed...and got slipped in. ????

[2banon]

169. I remember waiting for that shoe to drop

But I do not think Hersh sent to Intel, he would know what they would do with it. I betcha he sent to certain selective reporters, maybe at the NYT, WaPo or who knows who... but i figured that someone got to him, and he's not said a word that I know of since.. (that needs to be fact checked).

Maybe someone with personal connections/contact will flesh that out from him. ??

[2banon]

95. unnamed in the report BUT mentioned on PBS News Hour tonight

I'm too tired to dig up the transcript right now, but NYT reporter was being interviewed and he mentioned the name of CIA interrogation unit's lawyer. I think it's important to dig it up, and spread it around far and wide, so we can recognize who he is in the future.

[bobduca]

110. Robert Eatinger

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/federal_government/cia-lawyer-at-center-of-computer-snooping-clash/2014/03/12/764290e4-a9b6-11e3-8a7b-c1c684e2671f_story.html

[2banon]

124. That's it.. mentioned 1,600 times in the torture papers

but mysteriously, Difi never utters his name in her remarks. Robert Eatinger is the name we need to remember for future reference when this episode is discreetly closed, something nefarious will eventually emerge and his name will be associated with it.

[jazzimov]

34. Let's clarify a couple of things

1. This has NOTHING to do with the NSA, despite efforts to confuse the two issues.
2. This was an investigation into the CIA practices, as allowed under GWB

It appears to me that there has been a concerted effort to conflate this issue with the recent NSA accusations. They are 2 separate issues.

There seems to be a "blame Obama" mindset - this relates back to GWB, not Obama.

If you want to place blame, blame GWB not Obama.

I prefer not to point fingers, unless it's towards the future. Isn't that the definition of a Progressive? To Progress?

[msanthrope]

36. Don't bring facts into perfectly good outrage. nt

[Oilwellian]

40. Well, there is this...

President Barack Obama’s administration has refused to release about 9,400 documents connected to the Senate Intelligence Committee investigation at the heart of an ongoing dispute with the Central Intelligence Agency, (CIA) McClatchy Newspapers reported on Wednesday.

The White House has allegedly rejected or ignored written and verbal requests for committee members to review the materials, which relate to the agency’s “enhanced interrogation” program shut down near the beginning of Obama’s presidency. Committee staff members allegedly first learned about the documents in 2009, but it is not clear whether the CIA granted them access to them before the White House made them unavailable.

However, McClatchy reported that Obama has not made a formal statement indicating the documents were protected by executive privilege.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/03/12/report-white-house-shielding-cia-from-senate-torture-investigation/

Why do you suppose Obama is providing cover for the Bush Crime Family?

[pacalo]

41. "I prefer not to point fingers, unless it's towards the future."

To point fingers at the correct source of these problems requires looking back at Dick Cheney & his sidekick, along with the now-acting CIA general counsel who was there to christen & to legitimize the CIA's torture programs.

[MannyGoldstein]

47. I should blame Bush for Obama's CIA #%^*ing with the Senate Oversight Commitee

Oh Lord.

[ProSense]

54. Do you blame Bush for torture?

"I should blame Bush for Obama's CIA #%^*ing with the Senate Oversight Commitee"

Heads will likely roll at the CIA at the conclusion of an investigation into the removal of documents. It's likely there could be criminal charges. The main purpose of this trampling on the separation of powers is an attempt to hide Bush's torture program.

The report, if as damaging as Feinstein states, should result in war crime prosecutions.

[MannyGoldstein]

56. Remember the Outrageous! Outrageous! IRS scandal?

Where the head of the thing - who had zero to do with the lunatics who thought groups with "Tea Party" in their name might be political - had to be fired immediately?

Shirley Sherrod? Van Jones?

The NSA and CIA are out of control. Now. Today.

[ProSense]

57. So

Remember the Outrageous! Outrageous! IRS scandal?

Where the head of the thing - who had zero to do with the lunatics who thought groups with "Tea Party" in their name might be political - had to be fired immediately?

Shirley Sherrod? Van Jones?

The NSA and CIA are out of control. Now. Today.

...you want someone fired? As I said, it's likely heads will roll.

At least you seem to grasp that Obama isn't micromanaging each agency.

[glinda]

69. two sentients to the shadow government perhaps

[Scuba]

98. Apparently the CIA still works for Bush / Cheney.

[Marr]

72. God, that's gross.

I swear, if the Army blew up an elementary school, the BOG-types would post nothing but arguments on why it had nothing to do with Obama.

[sabrina 1]

81. What came of blaming Bush, which we certainly did? Any investigations, anyone even lose

a job, other than the Whistle Blowers, like Manning eg most of whose revelations were from the Bush era, considering that is when she had access to the material she leaked. Did you support her exposing war crimes under Bush?

Why did we 'move forward' from the massive crimes committed by the Bush gang?

Especially since this was one of the main issues for people who got Democrats elected?

Is the same thing going to happen again?

You said something about 'blaming' this president. He is not being blamed for Bush's crimes. He has however, protected them from being prosecuted, not just here, but as the Wikileaks cables revealed, influenced the Spanish Court which was about to prosecute six of Bush's torturers.

And now he is standing firmly behind Brennan. He didn't stand behind Van Jones, or Shirley Sherrod eg. Why stand by all these Republicans?

[fascisthunter]

148. No, that's only part of What Progressive Stands for

as your twisting gets "progressively" worse. See...semantics.

[questionseverything]

165. no cigar

1. This has NOTHING to do with the NSA, despite efforts to confuse the two issues/////////////////

both alphabet agencies are supposed to be under control of the president, both deal with illegal surveillance

2. This was an investigation into the CIA practices, as allowed under GWB //////

yes it happened under w but for whatever reason current potus has repeatedly shielded w......obstruction


If you want to place blame, blame GWB not Obama.

I prefer not to point fingers, unless it's towards the future/////////////////////

this torture included waterboarding, beatings, electrical shock, sexual depravity, chaining people to the floor and freezing them to death, I do not want people capable of ordering that or doing that walking around in society

potus can still prosecute and be on the right side of history

[lonestarnot]

52. Dear MannyGoldstein. Doncha think

that Mr. President will terminate some employment at the conclusion of investigations. I haven't read all of the stuff yet. So still working on keeping informed. Thanks for the link to the report. And just for the record, I don't say I totally trust Feinstein, but I guess all she has reported is verifiable or better damn be. She has done some things that have truly pissed me off to the bone in the past.

[steve2470]

68. the video of her Senate speech is here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017180730

[Zorra]

71. Once again: The only solution is world revolution.

The only solution is world revolution

“Our strategy should be not only to confront empire, but to lay siege to it. To deprive it of oxygen. To shame it. To mock it. With our art, our music, our literature, our stubbornness, our joy, our brilliance, our sheer relentlessness – and our ability to tell our own stories. Stories that are different from the ones we’re being brainwashed to believe.

The corporate revolution will collapse if we refuse to buy what they are selling – their ideas, their version of history, their wars, their weapons, their notion of inevitability.

Remember this: We be many and they be few. They need us more than we need them.

Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing.”

― Arundhati Roy,

[bobduca]

174. Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing.

This speech never fails to inspire!

[steve2470]

77. Brennan Calls CIA Hacking Charges “Beyond The Scope of Reason”

http://time.com/20200/brennan-calls-cia-hacking-charges-beyond-the-scope-of-reason/

Don't shoot the messenger, only providing for the curious. Not surprised at all he would say this. For Feinstein to go public, after so many years of being a dutiful CIA/NSA defender, says volumes.

[L0oniX]

109. LOL ...and spying is ok as long as it isn't done to those that ok'd the spying.

[Laelth]

101. k&r for exposure. n/t

-Laelth

[G_j]

102. "If the Senate can declassify this report, we will be able to ensure that an un-American,

brutal program of detention and interrogation will never again be considered or permitted."

[2banon]

183. Not holding my breath on that one..

I predict Feinstein and Brenner will kiss and make up, and this entire affair will be brushed under the carpet in no time..

[Capt. Obvious]

103. Let them eat metadata

[L0oniX]

105. So the CIA hired outside contractors huh ...and assholes hate Snowden?

Don't worry ...the CIA has a much better record for hiring cleared security personnel than the NSA.

[MuseRider]

111. Well I have now.

Thanks for the thread. Much to learn.

I have nothing to say at the moment. Not surprised but still gobsmacked.

[Puzzledtraveller]

115. Serious implications here

k&r

[tea and oranges]

122. Wow! Push Meet Shove!

What a thread to wake up to! In more than one sense of the word. Thank you DU-ers for summarizing & analyzing what may be well be a constitutional crisis.

I'm surprised it's come to a head so quickly, are you?

My continuing gratitude to the revelations of Edward Snowden, whose personal attributes are meaningless to me (yes, directed at those who attack his character, whatta distraction) but whose information has opened our eyes.

Chaos, interesting times to follow.

[Phlem]

125. K&R!

eek!

-p

[Hestia]

137. Is this what the NSA's bowels are in an uproar about re: Edward Snowden?

After we read about the tapes’ destruction in the newspapers, Director Hayden briefed the Senate Intelligence Committee. He assured us that this was not destruction of evidence, as detailed records of the interrogations existed on paper in the form of CIA operational cables describing the detention conditions and the day-to-day CIA interrogations.

Does he have these cables? Have they been released yet? Interesting...

[truedelphi]

139. Senator Feinstein is on the phone with Japanese ministers right now -

She is finding out how Japan got a State Secret's Law to go into effect.

In Japan, should you discuss anything that has been labelled a state secret (like Fukushima!) and you are in big trouble.

If it is good enough for the people for Japan, I don't see why that couldn't go into effect here.

This is one law Feinstein needs. Talk about Feinstein being a problem, mention her leaking sensitive information to her husband so he can bid on Surveillance contracts, and you have broken the law. Perfect solution to that nasty nosy public!

[grahamhgreen]

150. "CIA detention sites were far different and far more harsh than the way the CIA had described them"

[2banon]

170. Remember when Seymour Hersch reported that back 10 years ago?

I'm wondering what happened with that story and that cache of photos? He reported the story saying it would be far worse than the first reports.. maybe gave to Senate Intelligence Committee back then? Nothing happened with that story, but I'm sure he kept copies.

[grahamhgreen]

179. Yes. He told the story of a 14yo boy screaming as he was raped!

[2banon]

182. Yes, and more evil, sadistic monstrous behavior

I wonder if he's been interviewed by anyone this past week.. He was with Vanity Fair if memory serves... have to spend some time looking for those old pieces. trying to remember the year.. think it was about 2004 or thereabouts.. ?

[grahamhgreen]

187. Found this:

" Some of the worst things that happened you don't know about, okay? Videos, um, there are women there. Some of you may have read that they were passing letters out, communications out to their men. This is at Abu Ghraib ... The women were passing messages out saying 'Please come and kill me, because of what's happened' and basically what happened is that those women who were arrested with young boys, children in cases that have been recorded. The boys were sodomized with the cameras rolling. And the worst above all of that is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking that your government has. They are in total terror. It's going to come out."

salon.com

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2009/05/14/731112/-Seymour-Hersh-Children-raped-on-camera-in-front-of-women-at-Abu-Ghraib-How-bad-are-these-photos

[2banon]

189. The Pentagon took possession of these videos

I guess we can assume they've been destroyed, I wonder if Seymour has copies? I was unable to determine just skimming through the volumes of reading material on the subject, and wondering if he has or is speaking out on this matter at this point in time, in context of the "showdown" on the Senate floor. ? I haven't seen anything so far..

[grahamhgreen]

190. Hersh said they would come out.... eventually. I don't know.

[2banon]

192. Yes, and thank you by the way for the reminder and the links.

I am very curious as to whether or not Hersh intends to remind the world of this cache of evidence in context to the current events. thanks again!

[pragmatic_dem]

173. what is even more unbelievable...

is this bullshit - right here

Let me say up front that I come to the Senate Floor reluctantly. Since January 15, 2014, when I was informed of the CIA’s search of this committee’s network, I have been trying to resolve this dispute in a discreet and respectful way.

What in god's name is she doing hiding a major breech of the constitution, separation of powers and just about every other principal of representative government under the cloak of "being respectful". This isn't a goddamn monarchy where she is worried about the reputation of the Queen.

I have asked for an apology and a recognition that this CIA search of computers used by its oversight committee was inappropriate. I have received neither.

Besides the constitutional implications, the CIA’s search may also have violated the Fourth Amendment, the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, as well as Executive Order 12333, which prohibits the CIA from conducting domestic searches or surveillance.

And what the fuck is this? Would this have gone unseen by the nation if CIA had just said "sorry"?

So to summarize - this could have gone in a completely different direction:

"The CIA has been caught spying on the Senate, tampering with our computers and deleting our files. However, I asked them for an apology and they promised it wouldn't happen again, so we are good."

And the very next goddamn day, Feinstein would, in fact, be demanding more money for the CIA and NSA to spy on the rest of us.

Washington is a den of poisonous snakes that keeps biting us.

[2banon]

180. I share your outrage, to the depths of my soul.

What you said requires repeating: (emphasis mine)

So to summarize - this could have gone in a completely different direction:

"The CIA has been caught spying on the Senate, tampering with our computers and deleting our files. However, I asked them for an apology and they promised it wouldn't happen again, so we are good."

And the very next goddamn day, Feinstein would, in fact, be demanding more money for the CIA and NSA to spy on the rest of us.

Washington is a den of poisonous snakes that keeps biting us.

******

And then, to listen to Washington's media pundits gasp, and choke on Feinstein's "astonishing statements" outing the CIA.. just that she did this, while acknowledging she's been their fiercest defender and protector and their evil fucking policies, while simply glossing over what she revealed, simply the obligatory mentioning of the underpinning issues.. (but avoiding the actual ramifications).. has had me pulling my hair out with even more outrage and frustration.

Washington is indeed a den of poisonous snakes!

[pragmatic_dem]

181. thanks, it is completely sureal, even Orwell would be stunned at the duplicity. nt

[2banon]

184. +10000 n/t

[woo me with science]

177. kick

[woo me with science]

178. kick

[woo me with science]

185. kick

[woo me with science]

186. kick

[L0oniX]

188. Alerting for abusive kicking!

[Iwillnevergiveup]

195. Please, please sign this!

I posted it in another thread.

http://activism.thenation.com/p/dia/action3/common/public/?action_KEY=13438&tag=email438&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=master&utm_campaign=Activism-%20Church%20Committee&utm_content=Final

[woo me with science]

196. kick