whoop... there it is...

[WillyT]

CIA, Senate and a Constitutional Crisis (if you’ll keep it)
By: Peter Van Buren - FDL
Wednesday March 12, 2014 11:10 am

Peter Van Buren blew the whistle on State Department waste and mismanagement during Iraqi reconstruction in his first book, We Meant Well, and writes about current events at his blog. Van Buren’s next book, Ghosts of Tom Joad: A Story of the #99Percent, is available now for preorder from Amazon.

<snip>

It is likely the files the CIA pulled out of the Senate’s hands would reveal two presidents have lied to the world about the torture program. Even for someone cynical and jaded, it is still possible to be gobsmacked by the news. We are witnessing extraordinary events in the history of our nation.

Speaking in reference to revelations that the CIA searched computers being used by Senate staffers, and removed documents those staffers had received from the CIA detailing its post-9/11 torture program, Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Dianne Feinstein said:

I have grave concerns that the CIA’s search may well have violated the separation of powers principles embodied in the United States Constitution, including the Speech and Debate Clause. It may have undermined the constitutional framework essential to effective congressional oversight of intelligence activities.

<CIA actions> may also have violated the Fourth Amendment, the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, as well as Executive Order 12333, which prohibits the CIA from conducting domestic searches or surveillance.

We will bypass for now the hypocrisy of Feinstein complaining that her own Fourth Amendment rights were trod upon, given that she has until now enthusiastically supported the government’s rape of our own rights through unwarranted surveillance. There are bigger fish to fry this round.

Torture

As almost a side note, it is very clear now that there are things in those deleted CIA files that the CIA and the White House are willing to go to extraordinary lengths to hide. Recall that the CIA destroyed without punishment or sanction video tapes of the torture sessions.

Feinstein said “The interrogations and the conditions of confinement at the CIA detentions sites were far different and far more harsh than the way the CIA had described them to us” and emphasized that her committee’s report would detail “the horrible details of the CIA program that never, never, never should have existed.”

It is likely the files the CIA pulled out of the Senate’s hands would reveal two presidents have lied to the world about the torture program, and that horrors beyond what we know were committed in our names. What did they do to other humans?

Beyond Torture

But we are past the question of torture. What is happening here is a Constitutional crisis. If Feinstein does not have CIA Director Brennan up before her Senate committee immediately, and if she does not call for his resignation and if the president remains silent (“We need to allow Justice to complete its investigation”) then we have witnessed the essential elements of a coup; at the very least, the collapse of the third of the government charged with oversight of the executive.

That oversight– those Constitutional checks and balances– are the difference between a democracy and a monarchy. They are what contains executive power and makes it responsible to the People. But like Jenga, pull out the important one and the whole thing falls.

A Last Question

The only question remaining then is whether the president is part of the coup, or another victim of it. Is he in charge, or are the intelligence agencies? We may have an answer soon. CIA Director Brennan said:

If I did something wrong, I will go to the president and I will explain to him what I did and what the findings were. And he is the one who can ask me to stay or to go.

So far, the White House response has been to ignore the challenge:

President Obama has “great confidence” in Brennan, Carney said during his daily briefing. He added that if there has been any “inappropriate activity,” the president “would want to get to the bottom of it.”

Brennan has challenged the president to act. What the president does will tell us much about the future of our democracy. As radio host Guillermo Jimenez has said, “On this Grand Chessboard, it is We the People who are now in check. It’s our move.”

<snip>

Link: http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2014/03/12/cia-senate-and-a-constitutional-crisis-if-youll-keep-it/

[uponit7771]

1. Thanx Obama!

[ProSense]

2. Yup

It is likely the files the CIA pulled out of the Senate’s hands would reveal two presidents have lied to the world about the torture program. Even for someone cynical and jaded, it is still possible to be gobsmacked by the news. We are witnessing extraordinary events in the history of our nation.

Speaking in reference to revelations that the CIA searched computers being used by Senate staffers, and removed documents those staffers had received from the CIA detailing its post-9/11 torture program, Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Dianne Feinstein said:

I have grave concerns that the CIA’s search may well have violated the separation of powers principles embodied in the United States Constitution, including the Speech and Debate Clause. It may have undermined the constitutional framework essential to effective congressional oversight of intelligence activities.

<CIA actions> may also have violated the Fourth Amendment, the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, as well as Executive Order 12333, which prohibits the CIA from conducting domestic searches or surveillance.

...we're "witnessing extraordinary events in the history of our nation." Who knew the torture investigation was proceeding?

It's interesting that the most sought-after documents on torture, ones the CIA is desperate to keep from the public, were created/turned over by Leon Panetta.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024654245

[grasswire]

3. I don't see how you think that means anything. nt

[ProSense]

4. See how what "means anything"? n/t

[WillyT]

5. I Don't Think That's The Point Any Longer...

[sabrina 1]

14. What's interesting is that WE knew, ordinary people with zero access to the material the

Senate and Congress had, that torture had shamefully become a policy. And when Brennan was chosen for the CIA, ordinary people all over the internet pointed out his 'views' on such issues as torture. Yet, this President seems not to know what ordinary people knew.

Maybe they stop reading 'reports' from the perps, and just spend a little time googling.

[Oilwellian]

6. Have you seen this?

We may already have our answer:

President Barack Obama’s administration has refused to release about 9,400 documents connected to the Senate Intelligence Committee investigation at the heart of an ongoing dispute with the Central Intelligence Agency, (CIA) McClatchy Newspapers reported on Wednesday.

The White House has allegedly rejected or ignored written and verbal requests for committee members to review the materials, which relate to the agency’s “enhanced interrogation” program shut down near the beginning of Obama’s presidency. Committee staff members allegedly first learned about the documents in 2009, but it is not clear whether the CIA granted them access to them before the White House made them unavailable.

However, McClatchy reported that Obama has not made a formal statement indicating the documents were protected by executive privilege.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024653838

[WillyT]

7. Yep... Thank You !!!

[villager]

21. How... Nixonian of him.

Alas.

[grasswire]

8. harsh comments there

"Does anyone doubt that Obama is nothing more than a delivery clerk for the National Security State, just as Bush Jr. was their Walmart greeter?"

[X_Digger]

10. Jury Results: 5-1 leave.

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Racist.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Mar 12, 2014, 08:09 PM, and the Jury voted 1-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Who's the racist here? I don't understand.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I don't know that the post is racist, but it is inappropriate on DU.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Did the alerter even notice the quote marks? The quote is from a comment on the Firedoglake site. Grasswire, whose avatar is of Frederick Douglas, is being polite in saying that the comment is harsh.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Why is it racist?
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Err, no. Try again.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't see any racism in that.


(I was juror #5)

[grasswire]

11. egad

It is time for DU to identify alerters.

[WillyT]

12. Yep... I'd Like To Know How Delivery Clerk Is Racist...

I used to be a delivery clerk.

[grasswire]

13. predatory alerting, doncha know nt

[mindwalker_i]

15. There are people here whose belief in Obama is religious

It's clear, given that, like the guy who Bill Nye debated, won't change their minds regardless of what evidence is provided to them. More to the point, they actively fight the evidence similarly to the way the church fought Galileo. So what was said is extremely hurtful, to them.

[1000words]

18. Deep down they can't have too much belief in him ...

If they feel he needs to be protected from even the slightest criticism, with such vigor.

Which leads me to speculate how many come to DU "on the clock."

[grasswire]

20. I didn't say it.

I quoted a harsh statement from another site.

But that's beside the point. A religious belief in a politician is the definition of a cult of personality. Their beliefs (which you characterize as rigid and anti-evidential) do not trump the reality of those who don't buy in. Politics is a contact sport, and hurt feelings have no space in our current situation.

[mindwalker_i]

24. Exactly, it is a cult of personality

Or possibly, in this case, a cult of "D". That's a huge mistake in that someone can slap a D next to their name and get at least some people to agree with them just on that basis.

[villager]

22. +1

And they grow increasingly fragile... and trigger fingery (hence the over-alerting...)

[wildbilln864]

9. k & r & thank you Mr. T! n/t

[MannyGoldstein]

16. Yes.

thanks.

[lonestarnot]

17. Very interesting indeed.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. Every thing secret degenerates, even the administration of justice;

Every thing secret degenerates, even the administration of justice; nothing is safe that does not show how it can bear discussion and publicity. Lord Acton

[woo me with science]

23. K&R