"Witness who saw it all" claims Zimmerman yelled "HELP, HELP" as Trayvon "attacked" him

[Amerigo Vespucci]

Yep...Zimmerman weighs 100 pounds more than Trayvon, but Trayvon "got on top of him" and "attacked him."

Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman



http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

Updated: Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 6:19 PM EDT
Published : Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 5:47 PM EDT

ORLANDO - A witness we haven't heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so far of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and killed.

****

"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said. Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red. The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want to be shown on camera.

****

"When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.

****

Sanford police say Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the shooting.

[aquart]

1. Is he saying that someone stalked with a gun fought back?

[Tikki]

8. These kids watch shows like Criminal Minds...for all this young man knew...

this older man wanted to attack him, kidnap or molest him.

Why stalk him otherwise?


Tikki

[slackmaster]

31. Trayvon may have been unaware of the gun until it was too late

Concealed means concealed until you are prepared to fire the weapon.

[CTyankee]

82. Ah, that must have been it! The devil's seed his is, that one...

[slackmaster]

86. Your reply doesn't follow logically from mine

[CTyankee]

87. then I guess I don't understand "until it was too late."

what does that mean?

[slackmaster]

90. Too late to do whatever was necessary to avoid getting shot

I don't know exactly what transpired between Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman in the moments before the shooting, but it's unlikely IMO that Trayvon knew that Zimmerman was armed until the last few seconds. Someone carrying a concealed firearm is legally obligated to keep it concealed until he or she believes it is necessary to use it.

I doubt very much that Zimmerman was brandishing a gun before the apparent physical struggle started. Assuming there was some kind of scuffle, I don't have any idea how it started.

[CTyankee]

100. So why on earth would Trayvon NEED to know that Zimmerman was armed?

IN what normal universe do we NEED to know whether someone is armed before responding to them?

I'm getting nervous that this is close to saying Trayvon was somehow at fault for not sussing out that Zimmerman had a weapon. Is that the expectation now? Really? If I bump into somebody with my cart at a supermarket and get shot, I should have been AWARE that he/she had a gun?

That's pretty effed up...

[slackmaster]

101. Calm down for a moment and imagine two hypothetical scenarios. In one, a crazy guy approaches you.

In the other, an ARMED crazy guy approaches you.

Do you believe that you would behave exactly the same way in both situations?

I don't believe I would. In the first I might stand my ground and face the guy down, at least verbally. In the armed crazy guy scenario I'd be a lot more motivated to run like hell before he got too close.

[CTyankee]

102. But what you are saying is that Trayvon didn't KNOW Zimmerman was armed initially, so how could

he anticipate an armed crazy guy?

But even so, why does Trayvon HAVE to do that in order to preserve his life? I certainly don't have that expectation when I am in my supermarket and my shopping cart bumps into another shopper...or do I? Really?

I think there is a perverse double standard here...

[slackmaster]

104. That's right. If Trayvon didn't know that Zimmerman was armed, he might not have felt a need...

...to run like hell. To repeat myself, I don't know what happened but I think it's possible that Trayvon confronted Zimmerman, which would be a perfectly reasonable thing for him to do.

...I certainly don't have that expectation when I am in my supermarket and my shopping cart bumps into another shopper...or do I? Really?...

I don't have that expectation either. I think it's REASONABLE to assume that people you encounter in public aren't dangerous, even if they are crazy.

I think there is a perverse double standard here...

I don't see one at all. The incident was all George Zimmerman's fault, and I've never posted anything to the contrary.

[CTyankee]

126. thanks for the clarification!

[Ecumenist]

2. I don't believe it and frankly, I expected this based on the frenzy

certain types have been going through to justify this murder.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

3. "A witness we haven't heard from before..."

A little too convenient, isn't it?

[Ecumenist]

11. Yep Everyone else saw this man attack that boy and either were on 911

giving a blow by blow account and suddenly, this saviour comes forward out of nowhere to announce ' he' saw it all.

[RZM]

15. We heard from him way back on Feb. 27

When this story first came out:

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/022712-man-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1phFMGCu4

This Tampa story seems to be just a rehash of the Orlando story from almost a month ago.

[csziggy]

23. At least they left out the identification of Tracy Martin as Trayvon's 'mother' with the new story

On Monday afternoon, a FOX 35 News crew met with Tracy Martin who said the victim in the shooting is her 17-year-old son, Trayvon, who was visiting from Miami.

"He walked out of the house to go to the store. He was going to the store," she said. "He doesn't know anybody here. He just came down here, so he was bored, so he walked down to the store. He was on his way back home. I'm living down here. He was sitting on the porch and this man killed him."

Read more: http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/022712-man-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1q3aF56k3

Tracy Martin is Trayvon's FATHER, his mother is Sybrina Fulton. I wonder who the woman who was talking to Faux News was?

[RZM]

36. Nice catch. Hadn't noticed that

They also got Zimmerman's age wrong by 3 years.

[csziggy]

50. Typical creack Faux Noise reporting!

[RZM]

58. It is the local affiliate though

It's not always exactly fair to equate local affiliates with their parent stations. The quality depends on the place. In my hometown when I was growing up, the CBS affiliate was completely dominant and the ABC and NBC local stations pretty much sucked. There are probably some places where the local Fox station is the strongest. Not sure about Orlando though.

[Lilyeye]

76. True, but damn if the comment section doesn't remind me of the Faux News comment section lol

[krispos42]

72. Just a bit, yeah.

Deus ex machina anybody?

[yardwork]

77. ....who doesn't want to give his name.

[Incitatus]

78. perjury is a felony

If this person is lying, (I suspect he is) hopefully it can be proven and they throw the book at him.

[slackmaster]

96. Perjury is lying under oath, in court or in a sworn deposition

Lying in general is not a crime.

[Incitatus]

98. I know and I expect this witness will appear at trial. nt

[slackmaster]

109. I'm sure he will, if there is a trial

IMO that's a big "if."

[Lint Head]

4. All of this is irrelevant.

Trayvon has the right to "Stand His Ground" when being attacked by an unknown man with a gun. Otherwise it appears you only have that right to "Stand Your Ground" if you are in possession of a gun. The NRA would love for only gun owners to have the right to anything.

[orpupilofnature57]

16. Remember this cartoon ?

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. That is a classic

[X_Digger]

20. Yeah, kinda stupid since..

The NRA was founded in 1871 -- by act of the New York Legislature, at request of former Union officers.

The Klan Act and Enforcement Act were signed into law by President Ulysess S. Grant, who used their provisions vigorously, suspending habeas corpus and deploying troops; under his leadership over 5,000 arrests were made and the Klan was dealt a serious blow. After Grant left the White House, the NRA elected him as its eighth president.

After Grant's term, the NRA elected General Philip Sheridan, who had removed the governors of Texas and Lousiana for failure to suppress the KKK.

The NRA was founded by former Union officers, and eight of its first ten presidents were Union veterans.

*yawn*

[orpupilofnature57]

22. Funny in the age of information ," Union Officers "

is as close as you can get with the founders. * waiting *

[orpupilofnature57]

25. Got tired of waiting for Facts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Rifle_Association

[X_Digger]

46. So do you deny that MM fucked up big time? n/t

[orpupilofnature57]

48. Sure MM fucked up .Big time ?

f-ck naw.

[X_Digger]

51. Trying to tar an organization started by ex-union soldiers..

.. ran by many ex-union soldiers, some of which were responsible for smacking down the KKK as hard as their powers would allow- intimating that the KKK and the NRA had close ties?

Ohhkaaay.

[orpupilofnature57]

69. Bullshit!!!!!

The Unions poor marksmanship in the Civil war was the genisis ,Truthseeker.

[X_Digger]

71. What in my post makes you think I don't agree with that?!?

Did you respond to the right post?!?

Take a breath, re-read my post, and maybe consider editing your post to actually address mine, eh?

[Rex]

26. Didn't do MM any favors for lying.

The KKK was formed in 1865. Maybe it was a joke, dunno but they both certainly did NOT form the same year.

[X_Digger]

93. *gasp* whatever shall I do?!? n/t

[Life Long Dem]

37. Zimmerman says he was walking to his truck.

Chief Bill Lee: Zimmerman’s statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and was returning to his truck to meet the police officer when he says he was attacked by Trayvon.

http://tinyurl.com/84rklbf

[RZM]

5. This witness spoke to the Orlando media back in February

I believe this is just a reprint of what he said then. I don't think he's said anything since. This angle of the story has been out there the whole time.

[rustydog]

6. Trayvon and his girlfriend's cell phone conversation has not been played yet

She allegedly heard Trayvon ask the killer why he was following him. The mother of Trayvon allegedly identified the screams as her son's.

[Broderick]

35. She recorded the call?

[LisaL]

38. No, she didn't record the call.

[underpants]

39. Everything can be retrieved

we will see what is on it

[LisaL]

43. You can not retreive a phone call that was not recorded to begin with.

[Incitatus]

80. No, we won't.

If there is a recording, it's in the hands of a government agency that will never admit it exists.

[Major Hogwash]

83. The police didn't even talk to his girlfriend.

The police didn't even notify Trayvon's family that he was dead, laying in their morgue, for 3 whole days.

[barbtries]

99. that's actually not true.

his father was notified the next morning when he called to make a missing person report.

[Major Hogwash]

103. No, actually what you just said is not true. His dad said he called the police department the

night that his son was missing -- and the police department said they didn't know where he was!!
His son was in the morgue!!
They didn't notify his father that his son was in the morgue for 3 days!

[barbtries]

111. yes, actually what i said is true

according to this interview with Trayvon's father: http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20581404,00.htm

[X_Digger]

119. Don't bother me with facts, son, I'm on a roll here!

Thanks for finding that, I've been trying to remember where I read it all day.

[barbtries]

121. lol

no problem. that's one rather huge inaccuracy that's been reported as fact.

[Major Hogwash]

122. No, it was not --- the police never interviewed Trayvon's girl friend.

So, I will use her as a source for that fact, rather than some anonymous person posting on a forum in cyberspace.

Trayvon's dad was interviewed on teevee, twice this past week.
I will take his word over yours anyday.
CNN even had an hour long special on this shooting last night.

Both times that Trayvon's dad was interviewed this past week, he said he was not told where Trayvon's body was for several days.
CNN's special last night even talked about this, and said there were conflicting reports -- coming from Sanford's police department -- not from Trayvon's dad.
Nor from Trayvon's girl friend.

[barbtries]

123. the link i gave you

was an interview with Trayvon's father. where's yours? because after some searching, i have not seen that claim coming from Trayvon's family.

[Major Hogwash]

124. Trayvon was 17 years old when he was murdered last month.

So, you just go right ahead and "LOL" your little heart out with X-Digger about a murder of a black teenager all you want.

[barbtries]

125. i'm aware that it's a serious issue.

heartbroken over Trayvon's murder. we're on the same side.

[barbtries]

97. i doubt if there is a recording.

there is proof that the call took place.

[snagglepuss]

7. Why is this coming out only now? Was the guy outside or is his house immediately

in front of the attack? What time was the 911 call? More questions than answers.

[emilyg]

19. He said this back in Feb.

[Frustratedlady]

9. I wonder if Trayvon hit him in the face with the can of tea?

The poor kid had to do something to protect himself.

[FarPoint]

10. I sure pray that the Federal Investigation Team will be vigilant.

My ignorance of how this actually works borders on delusional thinking....visualizing a top team like from the TV show " Criminal Minds"..would be on this case uncovering the facts.

[pinboy3niner]

12. *** 911 Calls (Background Screams) Are Absolutely Trayvon Martin, His Mother Says ***

http://www.andersoncooper.com/2012/03/21/trayvon-martin-parents-george-zimmerman-911-call-trayvon-voice/

[Life Long Dem]

40. She's not a witness.

She is going on a tape recording like everyone else can. She is not an eye witness.

[Cali_Democrat]

45. I think a mother would KNOW her own son's screams.

Yup.

[treestar]

63. She can identify the voice

Whether she was there or not, she can identify the voice if she knows it that she hears on the tape.

[hayrow1]

13. Sounds like a KKK style easily refuted lie....

If "John" called 911 there would be a tape of his call.

[orpupilofnature57]

14. Is this a member of the sheriffs family ?

[Enrique]

17. "the witness only wanted to be identified as John"

he didn't want to use his real name, Bill Lee.

[Rex]

21. I'm sorry, but until the FBI does a complete investigation

I will remain on the fence toward what his friends...er the cops say happened. Thankfully the FBI stepped in. And HOW is that different then other accounts? Everyone and their dog is saying Zimmerman is the victim here...even CNN gave him a free pass. I really think the FBI will step up to the plate on this one.

[malthaussen]

24. Yeah. Right. Show of hands, children...

... how many of us would attack a man pointing a gun in our faces?

-- Mal

[randome]

28. Who said he pointed a gun?

At the very least, Zimmerman should be guilty of voluntary manslaughter. But do we know that Trayvon knew he had a gun?

What if the gun was in Zimmerman's pocket and he pulled it out during the fight?

Whether true or not, that's what the story is going to be, it's clear as day.

[jwirr]

27. So even if true does this mean that a stalker is not a threat and a child cannot defend himself from

said stalker?

[randome]

33. That would be a poor argument to use at a trial.

Zimmerman caused the entire thing, no doubt about it. But any defense attorney will claim that Zimmerman was in fear of his life at the time of the shooting.

I would like to see Zimmerman get a minimum of voluntary manslaughter.

[Jim__]

29. Is this a fox nooze exclusive?

Do you think they might be making it up? I would think the police, who are getting hammered, would have released this information.

[mazzarro]

30. Has there been any probable story of the struggle?

Because every story written about the struggle so far has described Mr. Zimmerman's grass stained shirt and bloody face/head. What about Trayvon beside him lying face down on the grass? Did his clothes have stains as well? Were there any other wound(s) on him beside the gunshot wound that killed him? What were the conditions of the things he bought from the convenience store he went to? I ask these because it seems like some people are trying to come up with a scenario whereby Trayvon was having the better of the two of them struggling hence the justification for Zimmerman to use deadly force. This argument is totally bogus to me.

[LisaL]

41. Yes there is.

If you listen to 911 calls some callers describe the two people as "wrestling."

[WhoIsNumberNone]

32. Yeah. Interesting the witness didn't want to use his real name or be seen on camera

Must be fearing for his life... Contradicting the liberal narrative and all... Soon he'd have the whole Liberal Hate Machine unleashing it's fury on him, and smelly hippies would surround his house and pee and fornicate on the lawn... Then we'd send the gay mafia over to his house and.... you know...

[Broderick]

34. Thought the victim in this

Trayvon was taller and bigger than Zimmerman. 6'2. Don't know where I heard that.

[CBHagman]

44. I've read online that Trayvon Martin was tall and skinny.

The figures I've seen are 6'3" and 140 pounds.

Zimmerman is supposed to be around 5'9".

None of which really justifies someone getting out of his car and pulling a gun.

[Junkdrawer]

42. Almost as believable as the flood of "Scientists" who magically appear here....

anytime Big Pharma's ass is in a sling.

Prolly works for the same agency.

[Nye Bevan]

47. So it looks as though Zimmerman's defense will be that Trayvon was pounding the shit out of him,

and he feared for his life, so he shot him dead.

My prediction is that if there is indeed any independent witness to corroborate this, there will be some kind of plea deal for manslaughter, and Zimmerman will serve something like 3 to 5 years. The DA will be terrified of taking a murder case to trial and losing, possibly causing riots, and Zimmerman will be terrified of possibly being convicted of murder one.

I am absolutely *not* saying that this will be a fair or satisfactory outcome. Zimmerman deserves much more punishment since he started the fight and fired the fatal shot. I'm just saying that I think this is how it will play out, legally.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

49. Two things are certain...

1). "Some form of punishment" will have to be meted out to Zimmerman. He can't just walk away from this via a plea deal. The country is watching, and the country is pissed off. This story is hitting home on two extremely visceral levels...one, the matter of racial profiling. Two, any parent who has a kid and sees the story and thinks "that could have been my kid." Letting Zimmerman walk away with a slap on the wrist or less could have major negative repercussions.

2). It will be a matter of degrees. There are obviously people who want to see Zimmerman get the maximum penalty allowed by law. The challenge will be to provide a punishment severe enough to not spark an outrage. I'm not entirely confident that will happen. Following the strategy of Zimmerman's attorney, there is clearly an attempt to paint his client as the real "victim." That's not going to play well in Florida, or anywhere else in the country.

[Nye Bevan]

67. I think there will be a plea deal, but I think it will include prison time,

so there will indeed be "some form of punishment". However, I think it will be very hard to prove murder (as opposed to manslaughter) beyond a reasonable doubt. The authorities would absolutely love to avoid the circus atmosphere of a trial with demonstrations and possibly riots, especially if the verdict is in his favor. So I stand by my 3-5 years plea deal prediction.

[Solomon]

74. a plea deal for only 3 to 5 will cause a riot

You gotta be kidding.

[coalition_unwilling]

117. I would say the Justice Department also

also needs to look very closely at the Sanford Police Department's behavior. Their actions smack of racially discriminatory behavior of the worst sort, viz., had Zimmerman been the vic and Trayvon the alleged perpetrator, does anyone think the Sanford PD would have questioned Trayvon and released him? Get real. Note I'm not alleging yet that the Sanford PD committed a crime, but that their actions (and inaction) are deserving of some serious scrutiny.

[X_Digger]

120. Given their past behavior, it's more than likely. n/t

[Jumping John]

52. the cops said there were no witnesses, right? Quite the contradiction there. nt

[Broderick]

54. They did?

They haven't said much. Witness was mentioned in first news stories as someone pointed out.

[LisaL]

56. No, they didn't.

[arcane1]

53. An anonymous witness tells his story to a Fox affiliate

Shocking!

[AtomicKitten]

55. Cue Stephanie Miller's "lying sack 'o crap" song.

[LisaL]

57. And you know that how? Were you there?

[AtomicKitten]

59. Yes, I was there. I saw the whole thing.

Hey, that *IS* easy.

[LisaL]

60. Well now that song you are talking about is playing in my head.

[HangOnKids]

105. It should be Lisa

Good fit.

[obamanut2012]

73. hahaha

Touche!

[Spirochete]

61. "I saw the whole thing"

"My name's Rush, but you can just call me John..."

[slackmaster]

62. I am President Obama's long-lost Kenyan brother, and I saw the whole thing too

[Chuuku Davis]

64. I think I will wait and see what the grand jury says

This whole thing is screwed up

[slackmaster]

65. Yes, teasing the truth out of this isn't going to be a slam-dunk

A lot of people have their minds firmly made up with various conflicting versions of what happened. It's like religions - They can't all be right, but they can all be wrong.

[jillan]

66. Didn't want to be identified and said his name was John. Doesn't that say it all right there?

Shit - when I witness a car accident and decide to stay to talk to the cops - I give them my full name and my phone number because as a citizen I want to be available to confirm what I witnessed.

This was a murder for crying out loud and he won't be identified? Yeah, right.

[LisaL]

70. He doesn't want to give his name out to the press.

Which is a smart thing to do.

[HangOnKids]

106. If he is telling the truth he gives his name

The fucking jerk is a coward. Why are you so hell bent on defending a coward?

[Speck Tater]

68. Boy, we sure don't want THAT to be true!

Let's all see if we can discredit it without knowing any of the facts.

Or better yet, wait for the FEDS to complete their investigation.

[L0oniX]

107. +1 The mob will be very dissapointed.

[Lizzie Poppet]

75. If true, I don't think it changes anything.

The fact would still remain that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation by stalking Martin in his car, then getting out of the vehicle and approaching him. It would be only reasonable for Martin to be ready to fight in a case like that: some guy - obviously not a cop - following him around, then coming up to him in what I think it's fair to assume wasn't a friendly, welcoming manner. Especially a guy with a hundred pounds on you...

Basically, you can't start shit with someone, find yourself getting your ass kicked, then use deadly force...not without facing murder charges. "Stand your ground" applied to Trayvon, too.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

81. The whole thing could have been prevented if Zimmerman listened to the 911 operator

That's it, in my view, the point where the whole "defense" falls apart.

911 Operator: "Are you following him?"

Zimmerman: "Yes."

911 Operator: "We don't need for you to do that."

And he did it anyway. Because if he allowned the "c**n" to "get away," he wouldn't have been doing his self-appointed job.

[Lizzie Poppet]

88. Agreed.

It doesn't matter (IMO) that the operator didn't have the authority to order Zimmerman to stop following Martin. The operator had the experience and training (and I suspect policy) to determine what the best thing for Zimmerman to have done would be. Zimmerman ignored that advice. An innocent young man is dead, and from everything we know to this point, it was Zimmerman's poor judgement that caused it.

[Hugabear]

79. You mean there is more than one lying racist in that neighborhood?

Color me shocked.

[Zax2me]

84. There damn well better be.

Or a lot of people are going to look foolish, to say the least, if statement isn't a lie.

[EFerrari]

91. We already know the kid attacked Zimmerman's bullets with his torso

just like we know of two prior incidents where assaults on black males were fumbled by the crack Sanford PD.

[Raine]

85. *If* true than Martin was defending himself against someone twice as heavy

with a gun who stalked him.

[Bucky]

94. He stood his ground.

[fascisthunter]

89. LOL.... surrrre

[JI7]

95. parents need to teach their kids if someone is following them at night

be respectful, don't try to run or get away in any way. allow the person following you to do as they wish or else you deserve to get shot.

[Catherine Vincent]

108. I know Zimmerman wasn't arrested but

why didn't the cops take him in to get his statement then that way they could take a pic of his so called bloody nose and blood on the back of his head? Are we just supposed to go by what they said how he looked? Where's the proof?

[X_Digger]

112. He was taken in, but the police haven't said if he was photographed.

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin%20Lakes%20Shooting%20Initial%20Report.pdf

(At least I couldn't find it in any of the documents they've put online.)

[slackmaster]

115. THERE ARE NO POLICE PHOTOGRAPHS ON THE WEB ERGO THERE ARE NO PHOTOGRAPHS!

[slackmaster]

113. We don't know that the police did not take photos

Or that he wasn't taken in for questioning.

[Snake Alchemist]

110. I have a feeling even if a video recording came out showing the whole incident then certain people

would not believe it.

[slackmaster]

114. No way. Anything in a video HAS to be real.

[Quixote1818]

116. Two other witnesses say the scuffle was LONG over and Zimmerman probably killed Martin in cold blood

Not her exact words but what else can you take from what she discribes here?

[Ilsa]

118. Did the coroner find any evidence that Trayvon

had assaulted Z? Was there blood on his hands?