George Orwell

[nadinbrzezinski]

[BelgianMadCow]

1. this could be a silent thread with lots of recs

but the occasional kick,
for truth

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. true

[sad-cafe]

2. wow

you just find all sorts of crunchy stuff

[hrmjustin]

5. crunchy?

[sad-cafe]

7. using the OP's famous term

trying to relate

[hrmjustin]

8. I have never seen that.

[sad-cafe]

9. really?

I have read it too many times to count.

[hrmjustin]

11. Maybe I just didn't notice. What did you version of crunchy mean?

[pintobean]

16. It predates The Great Mexico City Hail Storm

and the sad death of Jay Polk in Syria.

[sad-cafe]

53. oh I had forgotten that

add it to the list.

[hrmjustin]

55. oh you have a list?

[pintobean]

61. That was before your time

Does this have any meaning for you?

[morningfog]

62. What was your DU screen name at that time?

[daleanime]

69. ........

[Fumesucker]

3. Heh, that explains the unmatched popularity of hippy punching

[Oilwellian]

4. They're really quite small in number n/t

[Fumesucker]

6. All the Republicans and 95% of the Democrats?

Doesn't feel that way sometimes...

[jtuck004]

10. "They" are small in number only if one doesn't count those who are

Last edited Sun Mar 16, 2014, 07:49 PM - Edit history (2)

more protective, want to save their Master's house from fire more than their own, or their neighbor's, here. One does that math and it is overwhelming.

That's why it feels that way. Because it is that way. And that's where the work has to be done...

[mountain grammy]

12. The man understood the nature of society better than most.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. That he did

[tea and oranges]

15. Orwell was a genius

and one hell of a powerful writer.

1984 has a positive ending (often omitted from different editions of the book, never mentioned in the movie): The proles take over & create the type of society where there is academic discussion. We know this b/c 1984, it turns out, w/in the conceit of the novel, is just that - an academic publication detailing what went wrong back in 1984.

(OK, admittedly, the happy ending Does Not make it a comedy.)

[Brigid]

37. I have never seen or heard of this ending anywhere.

[tea and oranges]

42. Many people haven't

which is why I brought it up, give me some time to locate my copy & I'll give you the isbn & edition details.

It's the difference between despair & belief in the human spirit.

[tea and oranges]

43. OK, Brigid, Book in Hand (it wasn't hard to find after all)

ISBN: 0-452-28423-6

This is the Centennial Edition, 2003, published by Plume/Harcourt Brace. Forward by Thomas Pynchon.

It includes a final chapter, or appendix, if you will, titled: The Appendix: The Principles of Newspeak.

This final chapter is the scholarly paper which dissects Newspeak, in which the reader is allowed to know what transpired. In the cited edition it is 15 pages of text.

[whopis01]

47. I have never seen a copy of 1984 that did not have the appendix

While the movie did not include it I have never come across an edition of the book that omitted it. And while I obviously can't claim to have seen all versions I have several published over several decades.

[tea and oranges]

54. I'm sure you're right

I've been remiss in assuming, since no one I've spoken w/ who has read the book seems to be aware of this Appendix & it's not in the movie, that it's been left out in some editions.

Foolish of me.

[Brigid]

52. I have "The Principles of Newspeak" in my edition.

I guess I just didn't realize it implied a sort-of happy ending.

[tea and oranges]

82. Hardly Happy

Was making a (OK, bad) joke about the classic definition of comedy, happy ending & all. A definition out of use today.

But the Appendix clearly indicates that society was able to bring itself out of the death spiral it was in & return to where an intellectual assessment of Newspeak is possible.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

77. Thank you for this! (EOM)

[Jack Rabbit]

17. My man Orwell

Let's hear it for the prophet Eric Blair.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. He was indeed

[friendly_iconoclast]

19. K&R

[libodem]

20. Yep

We will need 'trigger' warnings for every subject that anybody has an emotional reaction to. NPR did a spot about it today. Effing tiresome.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. I will have to go look for that, sounds fascinating

[zeemike]

22. Kick and recommended

Orwell's essays are even better than his novel and should be mandatory reading for anyone who wants to write...he really understood things.

The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.

George Orwell

[jwirr]

30. Where would I find his essays? I read 1984 because my sister and her friends were required to

read it in high school literature. They asked me to read it and help them understand it. What we all learned was that the book has an unforgettable plot that unfortunately has pretty much come true.

[zeemike]

35. Here is one place on line...

http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0300011h.html

And I still have not read them all, but I particularly like the ones dealing with the use of the English language.

[Seeking Serenity]

34. Read my sig, Zee.

It's from the same essay.

[zeemike]

36. And it is a hell of a good sig line too...

[Bluenorthwest]

41. I don't think the quote in the OP is actually Orwell.

If it is in his work, I sure don't know where. Do you?

[cui bono]

79. Searching it does come up as Orwell everywhere but things do spread like wildfire on the internet.

I just put it in my sig line attributed to him so I hope so.

[cui bono]

75. That's an interesting quote. And proven to be true even here on DU. n/t

[ReRe]

23. Thanks, nadine...

That is the dog's honest truth isn't it? Describes this country to a "T", and even to the divisions here on DU. People won't face the truth, the facts, but they will believe every word that drifts from certain lying lips.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. Yup

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. nope

[pinboy3niner]

28. Sure

Disown him just because he and mom always liked Mika best.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. Well, he might be such a very distant uncle

like your last name being Smith and you meeting another smith.

[Aerows]

26. K&R

[Drunken Irishman]

29. So, what's the truth?

Because what we think is true is not what the right-wing tea-party nutsos think is true.

[Aerows]

39. "Those dedicated to twisting the truth to suit their own purposes

rarely recognize it."

[OnlinePoker]

31. Problem is, how do you know which truth is correct?

The pugs think their side is and we hate them for it. They hate our opinions even though we think we're correct. How do you determine what is truth and what isn't when you oppose the belief's of someone so diametrically opposed to you?

[Doctor_J]

50. Evolution = truth

Global Climate Change = truth

Widest income disparity in a century = truth

Worst, least popular health care in the advanced world = truth

the truth is not subject to any versions, regardless of what Big Media says.

[Enthusiast]

59. But we have to tell both sides. Otherwise it wouldn't be fair.

[CJCRANE]

67. One person says water is wet, the other says water is dry.

Which one is telling the truth? Or is the truth somewhere inbetween?

One side says tax cuts for the 1% creates jobs, the other says they don't.

One side says a prosperous middle class and a living wage for everyone plus a social safety net leads to a dynamic capitalist economy, the other side says tax cuts for the 1% are better.

One side said WMD would be found in Iraq, the other says they wouldn't.


Which one is telling the truth? Or is the truth somewhere inbetween?

Time and again the conservative and RW experts are proven wrong. They live in a world of make believe. They believe in forcing their perception on everyone else regardless of the reality. It does work for a while but eventually reality bites back. It's better to work with the world as it is and try to make improvements instead of forcing a faith-based ideology onto it.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

78. Empirical evidence ...

That's how you can discern, with a high degree of confidence, what is truth. The reactionaries have an aversion to empirical evidence. The Left, while perhaps having an agenda, does try and use empirical evidence to advance said agenda.

[Seeking Serenity]

33. Read my sig. That's one of his quotes.

From his 1947 essay "On Nationalism." (In my mind, it would have been better titled, "On Tribalism.&quot

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. Yup. I have read some of his early fiction

"the hanging" is like a most.

[diabeticman]

38. My wife will be adding this quote to a notebook she has that have all kinds of quotes she finds

important.

[Bluenorthwest]

40. Except it's not George Orwell....

" No source for this quote among Orwell's writings has yet been located, and neither has any published source been found."

He did say this:
"The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies "something not desirable". The words democracy, socialism, freedom, patriotic, realistic, justice have each of them several different meanings which cannot be reconciled with one another. In the case of a word like democracy, not only is there no agreed definition, but the attempt to make one is resisted from all sides. It is almost universally felt that when we call a country democratic we are praising it: consequently the defenders of every kind of regime claim that it is a democracy, and fear that they might have to stop using that word if it were tied down to any one meaning. Words of this kind are often used in a consciously dishonest way. That is, the person who uses them has his own private definition, but allows his hearer to think he means something quite different. Statements like Marshal Petain was a true patriot, The Soviet press is the freest in the world, The Catholic Church is opposed to persecution, are almost always made with intent to deceive. Other words used in variable meanings, in most cases more or less dishonestly, are: class, totalitarian, science, progressive, reactionary, bourgeois, equality."

And this, since it is so oddly topical:
"Of course, fanatical Communists and Russophiles generally can be respected, even if they are mistaken. But for people like ourselves, who suspect that something has gone very wrong with the Soviet Union, I consider that willingness to criticize Russia and Stalin is the test of intellectual honesty. It is the only thing that from a literary intellectual's point of view is really dangerous."
Letter to John Middleton Murry (5 August 1944),
1944 was the year Stalin deported the Tatars from Crimea, resulting in today's trumpeted 'Russian Crimea, always Russian, always'.......so Orwell, he was not playing.

[840high]

56. read

The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those that ...
www.quoteyard.com/the-further-a-society-drifts-from-truth-the-more-it-...‎
The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those that speak it. George Orwell ... Suggest a Revision,

[SidDithers]

68. +1...nt

Sid

[GoneFishin]

44. Holy shit! That explains a few things. Watch for blind anger and vitriol. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. Some of us expect it anymore, sadly

[blkmusclmachine]

48. ,

,

[DeSwiss]

49. K&R

- Concomitant with that quote is this one:

''The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.'' ~George Orwell

[center][/center]

[gulliver]

51. True, except people also hate falsehood.

So this quotation is useless for discerning truth.

[Corruption Inc]

57. What, no kitty cat in that boat picture? LOL

Rec'd!

[Enthusiast]

58. K&R! What George said is becoming more obvious with every passing day.

Stop contributing to it by saying this condition doesn't exist!

[Berlum]

60. .

[SidDithers]

63. The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.

Last edited Mon Mar 17, 2014, 08:03 AM - Edit history (1)

No source for this quote among Orwell's writings has yet been located, and neither has any published source been found. Earliest source found on the Web was in a February 14, 2011, post from Jsnip4 on the RealistNews.net forum: [3]. Prior to that, an opinion piece by Selwyn Duke dated May 6, 2009, which includes an alleged quote from Orwell, had used these words in the final paragraph, but did not give them as a quote and did not attribute them to Orwell.[4][5]

http://www.realistnews.net/Thread-realist-news-was-the-capital-gains-tax-just-removed-regarding-bullion
http://www.conservativecrusader.com/articles/stopping-truth-at-the-border-banning-michael-savage-from-britain
http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/duke/090506

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_Orwell


People post all kinds of made-up shit on Facebook. Surely, a journalist wouldn't post something from Facebook without confirming it was accurate. Right?

Edit: bnw beat me to it upthread.

Sid

[pintobean]

64. Once bitten, twice shy

for some, doesn't apply.

[Codeine]

65. Called Orwell's base commander.

Got a non-denial denial.

[SidDithers]

70. SOP in these situations...nt

Sid

[Brickbat]

71. My favorite, by far.

[Brickbat]

66. Unlikely a writer of his skills would ever say "those that speak it."

[nilesobek]

72. The head librarian in this town

has deemed 1984, "inappropriate," and removed from shelves. They have done the same thing with some books by Philip K. Dick, Kurt Vonnegut and many, many others.

The memory hole is a possible grim future for Orwell's signature story.

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. The rewriting of history

Is already happening

[bvar22]

73. The Two Minutes of Hate lasted all day yesterday.

They had quite the festival,
naturally targeting Liberals, Pacifists, Anti-Interventionists,
and anybody who just wants more information before jumping in with the Freedom Bombs.


The "logic" is very simple:
[font size=3]Putin is BAD
so the other guys MUST be GOOD![/font]

[Progressive dog]

74. It is funny that a quote about truth

is apparently falsely attributed.

[TheKentuckian]

81. The content is gold no matter if Goofy said it.

[Progressive dog]

84. No It Isn't, it is meaningless

[colsohlibgal]

80. K&R!

[KamaAina]

83. Good one!

That may become my next sig line.

[blackspade]

85. Indeed.

[demtenjeep]

86. I think the argument then goes to "Who's Truth"

seems to me that is the basis for many arguements