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(8,994 posts)
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 09:49 PM Mar 2012

Dear globalists, allow me to explain why Americans are rebelling en masse against you

Those of you who know someone who extols globalism... feel free to tell 'em this.

Attitudes about free trade are all turning for the worse - among Democrats, Independents and Republicans, support is literally dying, rotting off the bone no less. And the more opposition grows, the louder the globalist-supporting minority gets. Problem is, reality is closing in like quicksand, and the more globalists struggle, the worse their standing is getting.

So... why is this happening? It should be obvious.

Every change that is brought about by globalism, every new industry, every move by global corporations, results in more discrimination against American workers. Far more jobs are leaving the country than are coming in. Americans are being systematically locked out of the global job market. Few if any companies ever say, "We're moving jobs to America". (I'm sure there's 1 or 2 out there, of course.)

When America was (well, still is) the world's market for goods, they sent jobs out of the country to produce goods for America.

Yet now that China is becoming a rising market for goods, American workers are still being excluded from jobs that cater to that market. (That is, unless you're a chicken farmer.)

H1B programs are being abused to bring in foreign workers specifically to replace American workers.

And globalists wonder why they're doing double overtime to defend free trade?

Those who argue that American workers are not being outright excluded from the global market should stop for a moment to ask themselves why America's trade deficit is so high. How high?


$497 billion, of which $252 billion was oil. That's a $245 billion trade deficit if you factor out oil.

Globalists continue to try to lecture America about the evils of tariffs. Prices will go up. Trade will go down. Aside from the fact that trade went down only a little more than the nation's GDP went down during the years of Smoot-Hawley, there is another problem with this phobia against tariffs:

Prices will go up, as a direct result of globalism. Not only that, but globalism is responsible for the continued devaluation of the dollar. This much is understood by the experts: http://www.frbsf.org/education/activities/drecon/1999/9910.html

Globalism also contributes to the national debt. Particularly, the foreign-held portion. This is all known facts among those who know economics:

The global economy is rigged to discriminate against Americans. The trade deficit screams that fact quite loudly. The H1B scandals scream that quite loudly.

This is why America is rebelling against globalism. It is human nature to rebel against that which discriminates against you.

Welcome to reality.

Dear globalists, allow me to explain why Americans are rebelling en masse against you (Original Post) Zalatix Mar 2012 OP
Sums it up perfectly. Blaze Diem Mar 2012 #1
K&R !!! n/t RKP5637 Mar 2012 #2
This issue will be the deciding factor in the 2016 election cycle pipoman Mar 2012 #3
I'd rather see the Democrats wake up to this first. Zalatix Mar 2012 #4
I agree pipoman Mar 2012 #5
K&R The light must continually be shed on those cockroaches Populist_Prole Mar 2012 #6
I just want to see the look on their faces when it all comes crashing down. Zalatix Mar 2012 #9
~kick~ (and already R'ed) pipoman Mar 2012 #7
Rec n/t OhioChick Mar 2012 #8
K&R varelse Mar 2012 #10
There are still a few DU members that support this insanity, Elwood P Dowd Mar 2012 #11
No chance. The free traders have no counter. Not here, not anywhere. Zalatix Mar 2012 #13
As a believer in the value of trade (like FDR), I know I quake in my boots every time you post. pampango Mar 2012 #14
? Conservatives put the deadliest globalists in history in office. George W. Bush on Free Trade: Zorra Mar 2012 #18
ahem.. Clinton.. Puzzledtraveller Mar 2012 #22
Yep. Exactly. NAFTA. Cutting social programs. Zorra Mar 2012 #25
Ever notice that so FEW actual Democrats come to back you up on this? Zalatix Mar 2012 #27
Thanks, Zalatix! Just say no... Zorra Mar 2012 #12
Here's ProSense Mar 2012 #15
More good news: pampango Mar 2012 #17
That is good news. Zorra Mar 2012 #26
The leading globalist is Barack Obama Nye Bevan Mar 2012 #16
There was no NAFTA 30 years ago when my job and about ten million more were eliminated NNN0LHI Mar 2012 #19
Sorry, I'm not following. Nye Bevan Mar 2012 #20
Here, let me be clear NNN0LHI Mar 2012 #23
It was free trade. De-facto style. Zalatix Mar 2012 #39
Economically, Barack Obama is a center-right Chi-Schooler. HughBeaumont Mar 2012 #21
Yup, we now have two parties divided solely on social issues. ieoeja Mar 2012 #24
Obama has also passed a few tariffs against China. Zalatix Mar 2012 #28
But not the kind of "globalist" envisioned by right wing conspiracy theorists. pampango Mar 2012 #33
Your arguments smack of desperation. Zalatix Mar 2012 #38
"rebelling en masse"? hack89 Mar 2012 #29
Even the most optimistic polls show that support is dropping like a stone. Zalatix Mar 2012 #30
But how much of that is due to the impact of a poor economy? hack89 Mar 2012 #31
Support was dropping precipitously in 2004. Probably even 2000. Zalatix Mar 2012 #32
So what happens next? hack89 Mar 2012 #34
We'll start replacing them like we replaced a lot of Blue Dogs. Zalatix Mar 2012 #37
Do you have a theory on why the conservative base has figured out how "evil" 'free trade' is so much pampango Mar 2012 #35
Nope, because Democrats don't support free trade any more than Republicans do. Zalatix Mar 2012 #36
I know you have no answer for this, but do you have a theory Zalatix Mar 2012 #40

Blaze Diem

(3,384 posts)
1. Sums it up perfectly.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 09:58 PM
Mar 2012

Globalism has changed the world forever. Doubt there is anyone or anyway to reign it in or regulate.



(16,038 posts)
3. This issue will be the deciding factor in the 2016 election cycle
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 10:03 PM
Mar 2012

If the US 'labor party' insists on defending these agreements without vowing to impose tariffs on nations which are not actively implementing worker protections and quality of life improvements. It will be time by then to back out of most of the trade agreements with 3rd world countries unless they immediately impose worker protections. Which ever party takes this position will win. Frankly if the repubs would have taken this position in the 2012 cycle, they may have had a chance to unseat Obama.



(8,994 posts)
4. I'd rather see the Democrats wake up to this first.
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 10:07 PM
Mar 2012

After all, the labor unions have been warning about it for decades.

If the Democrats take the Free Traitor route that really could screw them royally for a generation. Unless the GOP continues its war on women in which case, well, the net change will be moderately in the Dems' favor.

If the Dems wake up on free trade, though, the GOP will be a forgotten force in 20 years.



(16,038 posts)
5. I agree
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 10:16 PM
Mar 2012

our party, the traditional labor party, is already into this policy up to our ass and never should have been. It is time for our party to stand up once again for the US worker.


(5,364 posts)
6. K&R The light must continually be shed on those cockroaches
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 11:38 PM
Mar 2012

The current is against globalism is really surging; And yet: The shills still push the same absolutely trite talking points to defend it, as though they were some startling revelation we've never heard about. I mean, most of the population knew they were full of shit decades ago. Where do they get the gall to trot out the same easily countered points as though we were born yesterday?

I just wish they'd get it over with and just change their message to simply "Go to hell". Let's all see where we stand.



(8,994 posts)
9. I just want to see the look on their faces when it all comes crashing down.
Sun Mar 25, 2012, 09:21 PM
Mar 2012

It'll be entertaining to see the globalist shills respond to an electoral revolution. They've been betting on their ability to intimidate us into silence with bullshit like "we hate the poor people of the world". I'd like to see these globalists say that to the poor people of America. To their faces.

Elwood P Dowd

(11,442 posts)
11. There are still a few DU members that support this insanity,
Sun Mar 25, 2012, 10:43 PM
Mar 2012

although their numbers are miniscule compared to ten years ago. Surprised at least a couple have not jumped on this one to admonish us backwards thinking neanderthals.



(8,994 posts)
13. No chance. The free traders have no counter. Not here, not anywhere.
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 12:03 AM
Mar 2012

Their primary argument is that tariffs equal price increases for Americans and all those apocalyptic consequences. When you actually cite the facts to show that free trade is causing that anyway... the heart and brain of their argument turns to dust.

Speaking of free traders on the DU, I am sure the free traders on the DU are TIRED of seeing me post these things, which is another reason why they don't respond. Not a problem - the DU is no longer a haven for pro-offshoring arguments, and neither is America in general.

The pressure is on.


(24,692 posts)
14. As a believer in the value of trade (like FDR), I know I quake in my boots every time you post.
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 05:35 AM
Mar 2012

Last edited Mon Mar 26, 2012, 06:27 AM - Edit history (1)

You are right that popular opinion is running against trade agreements. What you failed to mention is that this trend is being led by the right, particularly the teabaggers.

Teabaggers believe that "free trade agreements like NAFTA, the policies of the WTO..." are bad for the US by a 63 to 24 margin (a 2 1/2 to 1 ratio). Republicans also oppose them by almost a 2 to 1 margin (54% to 28%). Only Democrats, as a group, still support "free trade agreements like NAFTA, the policies of the WTO..." by a 40% to 35%. This poll was done about 17 months ago and that that may have changed as well.

So I agree with you that opinion is running against trade agreements. The poll shows a decline in support across political groups from 2009 to 2010. Where I would disagree is whether this opinion change is being led by the right or the left and whether it represents success for conservative forces or liberal ones.

According to this poll, conservatives are far more negative on the value of trade agreements than are liberals. (If you know of other polls that indicate otherwise, I would love to see them.) In your view, are liberals leading the movement against trade agreements but are somehow having more success convincing conservatives than other liberals? (The decine in support from 2009 to 2010 was most dramatic among republicans, much less so for Democrats, even though republican support was weaker to begin with.)

I haven't seen similar polls for Europe, but political parties on the right (particularly on the far-right, like France's National Front) there are leading the campaign for reinstating tariffs for intra-European trade and higher tariffs for trade with non-European countries. So in Europe, as in the US, the right appears to be the anti-trade agreement leader.


(27,670 posts)
18. ? Conservatives put the deadliest globalists in history in office. George W. Bush on Free Trade:
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 09:25 AM
Mar 2012
Free market provides fairest way to allocate resources

Fast-track needed for US global economic leadership

Open more markets to keep America competitive

Don’t link trade to environment and labor

Sow free trade and farmers will reap

A free market promotes dreams and individuality



Mitt Romney on free trade

We have to open up markets to America's goods

Go to WTO about China; we're already in a trade war

Protectionism stifles productivity, under Bush AND Obama

Open up markets to American goods and services

Businesspeople should negotiate trade, not politicians


The truth is, you can fool some of the people some of the the time, but you can fool conservatives all of the time. Conservatives, both Democratic and Republican t(this includes teabaggers), are the biggest supporters, in real time, of free trade in the nation. They support globalist candidates; they generally despise real liberals - the anti-globalist, socially progressive candidates such as Dennis Kucinich. They even went so far as to remove him from office by eliminating his district because that was the only way they remove him from office. Conservatives favor business over people and labor.

I did not speak to a single conservative at the Battle of Seattle or in Cancun in 2003. I have yet to speak to a conservative at an Occupy event.

U.S. Chamber Hails Passage of Free Trade Agreements

The U.S. Chamber advocates for a robust trade agenda so that U.S. companies can export their goods and services around the globe to create jobs for American workers.

The U.S. Chamber’s Plan to Double U.S. Exports in Five Years

Negotiate new market-opening trade agreements including:

The Trans-Pacific Partnership, a high-standard agreement now under negotiation with eight other countries;
The Trans-Atlantic Economic and Trade Pact, which would eliminate tariffs on U.S.-EU trade, ensure compatible regulatory regimes, and provide new opportunities in services, investment, and procurement;
An agreement to liberalize trade in services among willing WTO members; and
Brazil, Egypt, India, and Indonesia: Explore the feasibility of trade accords with big emerging markets, recognizing that in each case a number of impediments would have to be removed first.
Permanent Normal Trade Relations for Russia: Secure congressional approval of PNTR so that U.S. companies, workers, and farmers can seize the benefits of Russia’s accession to the WTO.
Trade Promotion Authority: Renew the authority to negotiate trade agreements that Congress has granted every president since FDR.
Modernize export controls: Outdated limits on foreign technology sales cost U.S. businesses billions. A study by the Milken Institute found that modernizing U.S. export controls could boost America’s GDP by $64 billion and create 340,000 jobs.

Help small and medium-sized companies export: The Chamber is partnering with the U.S. Export-Import Bank on its Global Access for Small Business initiative to help more than 5,000 small companies tap foreign markets. Support the The Export-Import Bank of the United States (Ex-Im)

Implement the recently approved trade agreements with South Korea, Colombia, and Panama on a commercially sound basis as soon as possible.



(27,670 posts)
25. Yep. Exactly. NAFTA. Cutting social programs.
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 11:58 AM
Mar 2012

Clinton may have been a Democratic President, but he was definitely not a liberal President. He was a conservative Democrat.

The 1% would never allow a liberal in the WH, and they control the media propaganda, campaign finance, and primary system to insure that no liberal can ever get near the WH.

Subcomandante Marcos, in the 90's:

The global power of the financial centers is so great, that they can afford not to worry about the political tendency of those who hold power in a nation, if the economic program (in other words, the role that nation has in the global economic megaprogram) remains unaltered. The financial disciplines impose themselves upon the different colors of the world political spectrum in regards to the government of any nation. The great world power can tolerate a leftist government in any part of the world, as long as the government does not take measures that go against the needs of the world financial centers. But in no way will it tolerate that an alternative economic, political and social organization consolidate. For the megapolitics, the national politics are dwarfed and submit to the dictates of the financial centers. It will be this way until the dwarfs rebel .



(8,994 posts)
27. Ever notice that so FEW actual Democrats come to back you up on this?
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 12:15 PM
Mar 2012

That's because those polls you cling to, vastly overstate the Democratic support for free trade.

And the across-the-board decline in support for free trade has been going on since AT LEAST 2004.


(27,670 posts)
26. That is good news.
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 12:13 PM
Mar 2012

I've noticed that he is paying attention and taking some action. My dream is that after he is re-elected he goes totally rogue on the 1%.

It appears that ☮ccupy has had a profound effect on the national dialogue/consciousness.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
16. The leading globalist is Barack Obama
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 08:54 AM
Mar 2012
Obama Pushes Huge Free Trade Deals to Wednesday Vote

If you thought President Obama's expressions of sympathy for the Occupy Wall Street movement meant he was suddenly going to stand up for "the 99%," think again. Obama has just submitted to Congress the Chamber of Commerce-backed Colombia, Panama, and Korea Free Trade Agreements. And now, thanks to maneuvering by Obama and his business-friendly Chief of Staff William Daley and U.S. Trade Representative Ron Kirk, they're on an accelerated schedule in Congress. According to a report in The Hill, they will be voted on Wednesday, where they're expected to pass.


And he's done nothing to renegotiate NAFTA while in office.

Which is why I always find it amusing that some DUers seem to view those who are pro-free trade (like myself) as borderline right-wing trolls, when our position on this issue is identical to President Obama's.


(67,190 posts)
19. There was no NAFTA 30 years ago when my job and about ten million more were eliminated
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 09:31 AM
Mar 2012

President Obama was still a kid then.

Sorry, but your theory doesn't stand the test of time.


Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
20. Sorry, I'm not following.
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 09:52 AM
Mar 2012

Do you approve or disapprove of President Obama's position in favor of free trade agreements?


(67,190 posts)
23. Here, let me be clear
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 10:52 AM
Mar 2012

With no free trade agreements we were hemorrhaging good jobs by the millions. And these weren't low-wage jobs either. These were the kinds of jobs where one paycheck was enough to keep the bill collectors at bay. The kinds of jobs where the workers were paying the maximum into SS and Medicare, and huge sums of withheld taxes to pay the workers in our public sector every year. The kinds of jobs this country depended on.

It wasn't any free trade agreement that caused people to purchase imported and non-union made products to put their neighbors out of work.

It was something else entirely.

So, I don't see the free trade bogeyman that some do. Free trade is just an excuse for the people who actually caused this mess to blame their problems on. Lot of self-inflicted problems too. Its the chicken and the egg thing. What came first? It wasn't the free trade agreements.




(8,994 posts)
39. It was free trade. De-facto style.
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 02:33 PM
Mar 2012

Before we officially agreed to send jobs out of the country, corporations were simply doing it on their own.


(24,461 posts)
21. Economically, Barack Obama is a center-right Chi-Schooler.
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 10:11 AM
Mar 2012

As someone who is relatively unaffected by the effects of globalization and job offshoring, the President is somewhat incapable of being in the shoes of a blue collar worker who gets laid off and is financially limited when it comes to bettering themselves. He cannot relate to the frustration of the white collar R&D specialist whose position was sent to lower-cost shores because the CEO's stock price needed to rise a quarter of a point and is kept on the job search treadmill for 6 to 8 months while the bills never go away.

Economically, I am a progressive who has posted chart after statistic after fact after plain-and-simple visual evidence that the neo-liberal model of Free Trade and Free Movement of Labor has done nothing in 30 years but kept the yachts a-floating while drowning America in it's "rising tide".

Economically, I have no candidate. I have no representation. Most of Congress, Republican AND Democrat, loves the COC's pro-free-trade stance and the unfair models of neo-liberal economics.

It doesn't matter what party you're from: Advocating Republican-authored models of free trade, globalization and job offshoring is the same thing as advocating that one worker's progress and livelihood MUST be deteriorated or stifled in order to enhance someone else's progress . . . an action that, in the end, helps NO one but corporations and the wealthy that run them.

Is that the way America progresses . . . that only ONE class gets theirs? COME on.



(9,748 posts)
24. Yup, we now have two parties divided solely on social issues.
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 11:26 AM
Mar 2012

But then, back in the Dixiecrat era we had two parties divided solely on economic issues.

I stopped reading literature from the DNC awhile back. I think I even let my membership expire. For years before that I always wrote on the surveys I returned: "still not a single mention about Labor issues."



(8,994 posts)
28. Obama has also passed a few tariffs against China.
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 12:52 PM
Mar 2012

His policy on trade has been a mixed bag - better than any other President.


(24,692 posts)
33. But not the kind of "globalist" envisioned by right wing conspiracy theorists.
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 01:56 PM
Mar 2012

The Globalist Agenda represents a plan to bring all of Earth's inhabitants under the control of a single, global state. There is a small, but powerful group of individuals who are the architects and instigators behind the formation and implementation of this "New World Order". Using their influence through international organizations such as the IMF, World Bank, the Royal Institute of International Affairs (RIIA), the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), the Trilateral Commission, the Bilderberg Group, the United Nations, NATO, and hundreds of other non-governmental organizations, the objective of these internationalists is nothing less than the subjugation of everyone on the planet as servants to a one world government (servants means slaves). A government run by the same small group of elite that have ruled the masses for a very long time under various guises. These elite are the descendents of those that ruled for at least the past 2 centuries - kings and queens, bankers, robber barrons, priests, and assorted subservient oligarchs and media representatives. Their desire for a return to a one world feudal state should come as no surprise to anyone who has read a little history. It is their nature after all.



In order to resist the coming totalitarian control grid, you must simply refuse to comply. Do not accept a national ID card/biometric ID based driver's licenses; refuse to take a vaccine of any kind regardless of the propaganda you are fed; refuse to eat genetically modified food; do not accept voluntary sterilization to save the planet; and above all do not accept the implantable microchip. And educate the very young of the dangers these things represent and to say no.

Political Action

The opponents of freedom have been active for a very long time but it is not too late. We can still get involved and retake positions of political power in local, provincial and federal government. All it requires on the will to act and the determination to succeed.

Self Sufficiency / Independence

In the short term, we are facing the economic collapse/deliberate destruction of the US which will result in hardship and depression on a global scale. You must do everything in your power to counter this and survive and thrive in the coming hardships so the knowledge you possess will survive and our ultimate victory over the elite sociopathic control freaks assured. Plant gardens and grow your own food and encourage those around you to do the same; buy/store emergency food supplies; take protective measures to arm yourself in the event you need to act in self defense to safeguard yourself and your family; ensure you have adequate access to water; and buy physical gold and silver related assets to protect against the imminent hyperinflation planned by the bankers.



(39,164 posts)
29. "rebelling en masse"?
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 01:04 PM
Mar 2012

Not a huge fan of unregulated free trade but I don't see any sort of rebellion.



(8,994 posts)
30. Even the most optimistic polls show that support is dropping like a stone.
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 01:13 PM
Mar 2012

Ever notice that free traders have become rare on the DU? Or that politicians who oppose free trade rarely lose to those that support it?

The massive shift in public opinion is so obvious you'd have to be living in a cave not to see it.


(39,164 posts)
31. But how much of that is due to the impact of a poor economy?
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 01:42 PM
Mar 2012

if the economy picks up and businesses start hiring, will public opinion turn again? It is hard to rebel against the system that gave you a job.

I agree there a many unhappy people. I see nothing to indicate we are one the cusp of some big change.



(8,994 posts)
32. Support was dropping precipitously in 2004. Probably even 2000.
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 01:47 PM
Mar 2012

And nowhere are even the most rabid free traders arguing that free trade sends jobs to America.

Now that everyone is realizing that we've always lost more jobs than we've gained, the genie is way, way out of the bag. That genie won't go back in.


(39,164 posts)
34. So what happens next?
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 01:58 PM
Mar 2012

I don't see a retreat from the global economy by the president or any leading Democrats. How is this going to play out? Will it truly be a rebellion?


(24,692 posts)
35. Do you have a theory on why the conservative base has figured out how "evil" 'free trade' is so much
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 02:22 PM
Mar 2012

faster than Democratic base has?

Support for trade is dropping like a stone among the republican base (2 to 1 against), especially teabaggers (2 1/2 to 1 against), less so for Democrats (a plurality of whom still support it). Are we not as smart as teabaggers? Are we just more brainwashed than they are? Or are we living in the past or in a dream world?

There has to be a reason why the right wingers in the US and Europe has figured out that 'free trade' is bad, while liberals (both here and there) have been slower to reach that conclusion that you endorse. What is it?

BTW, when you post in opposition to 'free trade' do you mean pretty much all of our trade as it exists today or just the US' trade with the 18 countries with whom we have 'free trade agreements'?



(8,994 posts)
36. Nope, because Democrats don't support free trade any more than Republicans do.
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 02:29 PM
Mar 2012

Look around you. Do you see 40% of the DU supporting your position? Well, do you?

Show me where you can actually find 40% of any Democrats that support free trade... except, perhaps, in some theoretical polls.

Funny, I've been telling you this over and over and you keep running away from it: you can't actually find 40% of any Democratic group that supports free trade.



(8,994 posts)
40. I know you have no answer for this, but do you have a theory
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 06:03 PM
Mar 2012

on how offshoring and globalism does NOT exclude American workers from the labor market?

Do you deny that more jobs are shipped out of the country than are shipped in?
Do you deny that they're bringing in H1B workers to replace Americans?

Do you deny our massive NON-OIL trade deficit or the fact that it's devaluing the dollar and growing the debt?

Do you deny? No, I don't expect an answer. No free trader has answers to that.

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