Today I met an actual flat earther

[nadinbrzezinski]

Last edited Wed Mar 19, 2014, 03:47 PM - Edit history (1)

no really.

At the coffee shop, they were attacking Neil DeGrasse Tyson and all kinds of atheists for all things like not having social services, or support mechanisms for drug addicts.

Well, after pointing out that these programs did exist...

http://luxury.rehabs.com/alcohol-rehab/atheists/

This woman went into how this is another religion and God made the earth, and all that. So I asked calmly, if she uses electricity every day?

That is god's will... that is a direct quote.

No that is Maxwell's equations and applied science and technology.

You do not understand, the world is the center and the sun goes around the Earth...

I calmly said to her that if she believed atheism and science was a form of theology she had no idea what the term meant, or what real spirituality was. I also told her that she would be far more comfortable in a world without science, meaning no modern medicine, electricity, the internet she was obviously using. refrigeration, and all sorts of things she used but barely understood.


Then she said, but you do not understand, the universe has no proof of explosion, or that heresy the big bang. At which point I called out the announcement of two days ago on my smart phone. She was all but happy. I put my cup of coffee back where the used cups go, and then bid my goodbyes and walked away. I really did not feel like getting into a fight. But all this is coming out because of Cosmos. It is making these people nuts.

But now I know, they are out there for real, beyond websites and my TV. Oh and yes, she said I was going to burn in hell. I did not feel like posting out that hell is a belief and there is no proof that it exists.

[Gothmog]

1. I really love Cosmos

The flat earthers are really having an issue with this show

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Like they did with the original one

I cannot wait to buy the series, all of it.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

57. You should have told her to walk in a straight line ...

... and to keep going until she falls off the world.

[nadinbrzezinski]

60. While tempting...

...

[zappaman]

61. That's ridiculous

You can't walk thru the ocean.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

62. Of course, you can!

God will part the seas, don't you know? He did for Moses.

[calimary]

21. Well, sorry to be a hard-ass, but FUCK 'em.

Just FUCK 'em. I don't care what kind of tizzy they're throwing. FUCK 'em. They're just simply FLAT WRONG. And I intend to keep their "religion" out of my REALITY.

[Heather MC]

96. Ok It's Official, I have got to watch this show!!!

I keep hearing about how it's getting bible's thumpers panties in a bunch.

Must be a great show

[Gothmog]

97. It is a great show

You will enjoy it

[Heather MC]

124. JUST WATCHED AND.....

wow wow wow, I can't believe this is a FOX show, how the hell did they sneak this one past Murdock?

He destroyed the Creationist, the nuts who believe the earth is only 6,000 years old. Brought up some of the nasty Roman Catholic Baggage. Crushed the Flat Earthers.

I loved it.

[Capt. Obvious]

2. Ick

They would have given me an asthma attack.

[riqster]

3. Cosmos is not making these people nuts.

They slipped their cogs many years ago.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. But now they feel their life is under attack

and their belief system. To be fair, from their point of view, they are correct

[glinda]

31. Their brains are under attack.

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. While that might the case, it is also their lives

see, their children are also rejecting this in large numbers,

see here

http://www.pewforum.org/2010/02/17/religion-among-the-millennials/

and here

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=7513343

just to get your started

[Enthusiast]

74. Well young people will just have to be forced to accept religion. Been done before.

[glinda]

143. Is happening now via Conservative Laws passed and places like Holly Lobby.

[Enthusiast]

144. They might actually be the cause of

more unwanted pregnancies resulting in more abortions. In their ignorance they are actually working against their own interests.

[glinda]

145. Very true but is it really about abortion? I think it is about other things politically motivated.

[Enthusiast]

146. I agree. It really isn't about abortion. It's about control. Authoritarianism.

[NightWatcher]

4. blind faith relieves the person of having to think critically

It really saves time and energy

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Exactly, the electricity can't be explained

and it is the will of god really had me going, tempted, where exactly is this described in the good book? I had to restraint myself.

[catbyte]

22. If electricity is "God's Will", how does she explain the fact that it didn't come into use until the

late 1800's? I know, I know. You can't reason with these freaks. Noble effort, though.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. We have possibly the use of some of these lamps in antiquity

But I do not expect her to be up to date on archeology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_Battery

[catbyte]

24. I should have said wide commercial use, sorry!

Thanks for the link!

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. You welcome

I find it fascinating that we had some of these things in proto technology back then though. Imagine... if they stumbled upon the scientific method and all that? We know steam was more of a toy though.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

59. You have to be very specific with these people ...

You leave a hole like that in your argument, and they get huffy.

[ieoeja]

79. My mom saw me watching a period piece on TV. "Do you think people really dressed like that?"

"Yeah, mom, I'm pretty sure warriors did wear some armor back in the day for protection."

"Well, it does mention it in the Bible, so I guess it's true."


I let that one go. She was, thankfully, never all that outspoken about her fundie beliefs. But my dad and I did have to roll our eyes on occasion.


My point is ("you have one?&quot that her ignorance is so deep, she might actually believe that TV has been broadcasting for six thousand years.

And how you gonna prove otherwise? The Bible does not say there was no TV. Any other book is probably just Liberal propaganda.

[nadinbrzezinski]

100. My dad once asked about the age of the universe

he could not grasp it because the number is so astronomically huge. Realize he did not end Junior High, something about WW II interfering. And while he lost his faith, his knowledge of the world was firmly based on the bible. That is all he read as a youth in the shtetl. So six days and on the seventh he rested is easy to grasp.

So at times, especially with older people, I am very patient. There is a chance they were never truly exposed to even a smidgen of science or that kind of thought when they were growing up. Me, I read science books and cosmos and Broca's Brain when growing up. And yes, also the Bible as history (don't ask, since these days I would have had a hard discussion with the teachers). But somebody in their 70s and 80s and 90s, even 60s, I will cut some slack.

Today, that was not the case, that lady should know better.

[sabbat hunter]

119. my grandfather

escaped Poland around 1917, went to Italy, then to Argentina before coming to the US

But despite all of that he was a very learned man in the Torah and Talmud. After he retired he would study the Talmud every day (except saturday),sometimes twice a day. (right up until he was about 91 he did this). He would also lead his synagogue in the services when the rabbi was away or sick. Some in his Synagogue even called him Rabbi Jack.
He knew that the earth was not literally created in 6 days. He knew that most of what was in the bible was stories, on how to lead our lives, not to be taken literally. It is why he found the Talmud so important, because it was the study of what the words in the Torah actually mean.

He studied the Talmud up until he realized that he could not keep up with some of the younger people studying along side of him of what they were discussing. (the people he was studying along side were up to 70 years younger than him when he stopped!)

But with all of that, he did not finish HS.

You do not need a formal education to realize that the bible is not meant to be taken literally. It is not a lack of formal education, but a lack of WANTING to know more that is the problem with the "6 dayers".

[nadinbrzezinski]

122. He was busy raising a family and getting a business going

he read, but history, until his seventies. Then he slowly lost his sight.

His dad was like your grand dad by the way. He was considered the Jojem of the Shtetl and Rabies interviewed with him.

Dad was not interested in Torah or Talmud after WW II though, something about Treblinka. Though he loved going to services in an orthodox synagogue for High Holidays, and other forms of religious music for their beauty. But religious, not one bit. That said, the age of the universe, 13.5 billion years, is almost an incomprehensible number to grasp.

[pangaia]

130. Nadine,,me again.

I am in my 70's.. Seventy, to be exact. I have a BM, MM, DMA and a PhD. I sometimes forget my shopping list. But I took algebra, trig, calculus( I think), chemistry, physics, Spanish, Latin, astronomy, US history, world history, European history, English Composition and wrote a senior thesis on a history of jazz from 1910-1950.--all in High School.

All that when what I really spent time doing was playing music and studying with a member of the NY Philharmonic.

I'm on a roll here-
In undergrad school- music school-- French, German, Italian, Music History Survey, Baroque music, Classical music, romantic music, "contemporary music,' a courses on Mozart/Haydn (can you tell the difference?), Beethoven, Stravinsky, Bach/Handel, 2 years of composition lessons, 2 years of music theory, counterpoint, conducting, 4 years of private percussion lessons, 2 years of piano, opera history, English composition.....

Then on to grad school... whew, I'm getting tired just thinking about it....
You don't need to cut me any slack.


That's ok. I know what you meant.
I'm just enjoying your posts and having some fun..

[nadinbrzezinski]

131. Did you go to HS with me?

When kids here complaint I just tell them what I took in my first year of Junior high, I am half your age.

[pangaia]

132. Yes, I went to HS with you.

only in a 35 year time warp.

Are you one of ....THE brzezinskis?

[nadinbrzezinski]

134. I said that because of what we all had to take

Chemistry, physics, algebra, Spanish lit, history, civics, plus the Hebrew program.

And people want to remove algebra from 7th grade. It makes no sense.

[Jackpine Radical]

86. Ninny. Because

God didn't want us to have it before the late 1800's.

Like, why didn't he send Jesus to save Adam & Eve?

Because it wasn't part of His plan.

It ain't healthy to question the Big Guy. Piss Him off, and he'll take you out with a lightning bolt.

[sabbat hunter]

120. It was Lewis Black who said

that the God of the old testament was a bit of a dick. It took the birth of his son to calm him down.

[Jackpine Radical]

133. "A bit of a dick."

I guess that would be one way of putting it. Magalomania, destroying entire city-states, torturing Job to win a bet with the Devil--

Dammit, He reminds me of Cheney. And if I were a fundie theist, that would scare me a lot.

[hatrack]

67. Stupid comes in, stupid goes out, you can't explain that

[dilby]

8. Did you tell her a Catholic Priest came up with the Big Bang Theory.

And it was originally discredited because it fell too much in line with the Catholic teaching of creation?

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. I actually did not know that one

thanks for teaching me something.

[dilby]

29. Yeah most people don't but especially the hardcore fundamentalists.

And I always find it funny when they realize they arguing against themselves.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. I hate to point this out, which was a shock to me coming from a Catholic country,

but to Christian fundies, catholics are not real christians.

Which is a whole different discussion.

[ieoeja]

84. I actually managed to shutup a raving Racist for the past month or so because of that.

I live in Chicago now which is a Catholic oasis. But I experienced plenty of bigotry growing up Catholic in the Bible Belt. A few weeks back I got pissed off at aforementioned Racist and popped out, "where I come from they call YOU 'nigger'!"

That just shocked him to the bone. I then went on to explain the above.

I know it can't have changed him completely, but I haven't heard him utter a racist statement in weeks. Who knows? Maybe it is slowly sinking into his brain and might actually make a difference.

[nadinbrzezinski]

85. I hope it does

[bananas]

148. George Lemaitre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre

Monseigneur Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître, (French: [ʒɔʁʒə ləmɛtʁ] ( listen); 17 July 1894 – 20 June 1966) was a Belgian Roman Catholic priest, astronomer and professor of physics at the Université catholique de Louvain.[1] He was the first person to propose the theory of the expansion of the Universe, widely misattributed to Edwin Hubble.[2][3] He was also the first to derive what is now known as Hubble's law and made the first estimation of what is now called the Hubble constant, which he published in 1927, two years before Hubble's article.[4][5][6][7] Lemaître also proposed what became known as the Big Bang theory of the origin of the Universe, which he called his 'hypothesis of the primeval atom or the "Cosmic Egg".[8]

<snip>

[Union Scribe]

63. I love telling people about that

it unsettles extremists of all flavors.

[dilby]

71. Yeah works for both sides.

The Anti Science Religious type and the Anti Religion Science types. This guy was religious and a scientist.

[Initech]

9. In 2014 there are people who exist that believe the earth is flat??

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. She honestly believes the sun comes around the earth

honest.

That is as close as flat earth as you get, and no I did not directly ask her if she believed the earth is flat?

[muriel_volestrangler]

14. There are certainly people who claim to believe that, on the internet

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?board=8.0

[Initech]

15. Just when I think I've seen humanity reach it's lowest point of stupidity...

New depths are reached.

[Wounded Bear]

12. I've found that giggling helps...

or out and out laughing, at times.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. True, I felt that walking away was a better choice

[Xyzse]

27. This is probably what I would have done.

I'd get in so much trouble.
I am just glad I haven't met one yet.

[progressoid]

77. That's what I usually do. And then I feel bad.

It's not nice to laugh at the mentally challenged.

[rug]

16. Luxury rehabs?

[pintobean]

17. "the big bank" theory

The banksters created the universe.

Edit - this was posted before the edit of the OP.

[adirondacker]

51. Those folks huddle on Wall Street.

[enough]

18. Hahaha, "the big bank." Love it, what a great vision of the ultimate beginning of All Things!

I suppose it's a typo, nadin, but it's a concept I will treasure nonetheless.

[yuiyoshida]

19. I don't know what this is....

is this High school failing? Is this Home Schooled kids grown up? Is this because of deeply religious beliefs? Its clearly Ignorance. Its clearly people refusing to want to hear how science works. I have often heard how low the United States is now, in Education, in compared to other countries in the world. Are these the people we will eventually hire to watch our Nuclear Power Plants? Will established norms for someone becoming a Doctor or Attorney drop to include people who clearly need an Education? When I think about what we have now for Senators and Congress people (The Michelle Bachmans etc..) Are we headed back to the Stone Age eventually? This is a scary thought, that Ignorant people could eventually win.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. And that is a scary prospect indeed

some of these people will end up as doctors, engineers et al. And if you are an engineer you have to know about Maxwell though.

[yuiyoshida]

34. A personal story....

I was living in Arizona for a few years. I met a couple, who were both working at the Same Restaurant I did, as Waiters. She told me she was planning on going to Medical school and wanted to become a doctor. When I asked what kind she said General Practitioner. This seemed a reasonable goal until she told me that she would find methods of using Bible Healing on her patients. That Modern Medicine was basically the work of Alchemy and Magic, the works of the Devil. I asked if she really believed she would graduate Medical School with the belief that Medicine was strictly witchcraft? She said, she would of course study all of it, but once outside of graduation, she would be come a Doctor of Bible Healing.

My only thought was.. good luck with that...

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. We have a US Congressman who is a doctor

and believes the bible is the way to go. I'd rather he do his damage in Congress than real patients.

In a rational world his licensees would have gone away a while back.

[yuiyoshida]

38. Is he a medical

Doctor or a Doctor of Theology? IF Medical, I wonder how he made it though Med school? (Unless of course it was a CHRISTIAN medical school, like something Pat Robertson would run, than all bets are off.)

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. Medical

If he were a doctor of theology he would have no criticism from me as far as some of his statements. Sadly though he is in the Science committee.

Here you go. Tod Akin

http://www.mediaite.com/online/gop-house-science-committee-member-evolution-big-bang-%E2%80%98lies-straight-from-the-pit-of-hell%E2%80%99/

[Nay]

94. Just to scare you a little more, Yui, there are bible colleges turning out

fundie lawyers who don't believe in the Constitution or the law/court system -- they have become lawyers to push the country toward dominionism, in which the laws of the Bible are brought back and citizens will be subject to them. Have a mouthy teenage child? You will be allowed to kill him. Did your wife have an affair? You can kill her, too. In fact, if you don't like how she keeps house, you can kill her for that as well.

The medical students who are fundies go through school, regurgitating all the correct answers they learned in class and, when they graduate, they practice their fundamentalism instead. The only correcting actions would come from the AMA or a very angry injured patient who sued this doc. If she confined her practice to nuts like herself, she could go for years without getting thrown out of the medical profession.

It's a grave error to believe that a good education can overcome religious indoctrination. This society's mistake has been to elevate these nuts to high positions in spite of their craziness. Once you give them a respected voice, it's all over.

[Aristus]

39. She won't last long after an independent chart audit.

If a patient dies under her care, and her charts are audited, if there is no notation of prescribing standard of care, and instead just 'praying with the patient', she will be dragged in front of a review board and probably have her license revoked.

Doesn't matter. She'll never even graduate medical school with that attitude. I don't care what she says.

[yuiyoshida]

41. That was a few years ago...

I am betting she never made it to Medical school, and if she did, she probably found it too hard and quit.

[Aristus]

47. Undoubtedly.

Years ago, I took a course in anthropology. The instructor had evidently run into combative creationists and anti-science types, and started the course with a statement to the effect that it would be a science course, not a forum for debating creationism. If biological science and the Theory of Evolution offends your religious beliefs, you won't like this course.

I'm glad he did that. We had no problems for the duration of the course.

[Arugula Latte]

104. Sadly, the USA is full of anti-intellectualism and intellectually lazy people.

It's just easier to believe the simplistic explanations of primitive people from an isolated desert area who lived 2,000 years ago. They are heavily invested in having easy explanations and a "everything is God's plan" worldview.

[Ilsa]

107. Interestingly, US schools fell behind after losing

the Scopes trial, and stayed behind. Then, when the USSR launched Sputnik, everyone realized that we needed our school science programs revitalized to catch up and then exceed the Soviet program.

I think now that the space program appears to be plateaued (to some people), the backwards creationist types have the momentum in beating down science curricula when they don't match their religious dogma.

[Xolodno]

20. I'd ask for book, chapter and verse...

...where it explicitly states in the Bible that the earth is flat and the earth is the center of the universe (they might jump through a bunch of interpretational mumbo jumbo).

And then ask why they continue spout theories from a pagan Greek.

But then again, you would only get an angry deranged response.

[dilby]

35. The flat earth thing was never true, it was made up by some teachers to explain Christopher Columbus

It's basically an urban legend that everyone takes for fact today. People have known since the Greeks that the earth was a sphere, kings held globus cruciger during the middle ages as a sign they were selected by God to rule the world.

[Xolodno]

45. Actually...no

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth

[dilby]

46. Did you read that?

It even talks about the Myth of the Flat Earth and links to it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth

[PeaceNikki]

28. I found out last year that I work with a moon landing denier.

I seriously thought they were mythical creatures. I can't take a word he says seriously any more. Not one word.

Oh, he also thinks God put dinosaur fossils on the earth to "test our faith". :/

[cleanhippie]

30. Head over to te Religion forum. You can deal with that same kind of reasoning daily.

It's taking place right now. The same kind of (il)logic, the same kind of (lack of)reason, the same kind of (willful) ignorance.

And it ain't coming from Cosmos recent airing. It's been going on for a very long time.

[Cleita]

32. Is there a theory of reverse evolution because it seems to be

happening here? Sixty years ago I don't remember people being this stupid, even the religious ones.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Over the last forty years we have had the far right religious right

come out of the shadows and become actively political. They have been always around us. Remember we had a trial on evolution.

(Scopes Monkey Trial)

Most religious people are also rational in a way, and do not see this conflict. But these folks do, and boy they are really noisy.

It is an old conflict though, and we see this in waves. Also right now we have had a "return to the faith" by many people scared shitless of the modern world. And this is not just Christianity. It is happening with all religions. People I knew who went to a secular school in Mexico, some trained in the sciences. have "converted" to a form of radical orthodox judaism that is just as militant as our christian fundies.

There is hope though, the youth are rejecting this, which is also scaring these people.

[ieoeja]

87. Sure, Obama espoused it in 2008.

{paraphrasing} : "When people have lost so much, they cling to what they have like guns and the Bible."


History has shown that religion tends to grow and deepen during bad economic times.

[bananas]

147. Yes, it''s called "de-evolution" or "Devo"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devo

The name "Devo" comes "from their concept of 'de-evolution' - the idea that instead of continuing to evolve, mankind has actually begun to regress, as evidenced by the dysfunction and herd mentality of American society."[5] This idea was developed as a joke by Kent State University art students Gerald Casale and Bob Lewis as early as the late 1960s. Casale and Lewis created a number of satirical art pieces in a devolution vein. At this time, Casale had also performed with the local band 15-60-75 (The Numbers Band). They met Mark Mothersbaugh around 1970, who introduced them to the pamphlet "Jocko Homo Heavenbound",[6] which includes an illustration of a winged devil labeled "D-EVOLUTION" and would later inspire the song "Jocko Homo". However, the "joke" became serious, following the Kent State shootings of May 4, 1970. This event would be cited multiple times as the impetus for forming the band Devo.

[Vashta Nerada]

42. I laughed in a believer's face before when they tried telling me that kind of nonsense.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

43. Is she ironing her fur long johns with a hot rock?

[zappaman]

44. It sucks that one can't even go to a coffee shop without being harassed by

someone who thinks they know it all when they really don't!

[pintobean]

49. Bouncy Beef Balls For Soup

http://trucvy-zoe.blogspot.com/2010/12/bouncy-beef-balls-for-soup.html

Winter is approaching, and what is better to have than a bowl of soup? I usually like to make Vietnamese beef soup, Thai's hot hot, and so on. Bouncing beef balls is crunchy in texture, firm and truly delicious. Below is Mrs. Apple's recipe.

[Gothmog]

48. There are plenty of flat earthers in Texas including some running for office

http://www.democraticunderground.com/107816283

[Auntie Bush]

52. First they went nuts because we have a black president...then they get even more nuttier

due to cosmos. Such idiots. I almost feel sorry for them. They have so much to fear!
And don't forget the GAYS are coming!

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. Did the gays ever leave?

with their gay agenda and everything? The Horror, they just want to live like the rest of us!!!


RRRRUUUUNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!

I know, poor dears.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

54. And we thought Galileo got that all straightened out some 400 years ago.

Poor guy must be spinning in his grave. Eppur se muove.

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. There is a certain segment that would love to burn him today

for letting all that craziness out there... I mean, who told him to look through that telescope! I know, SATAN!!!!

[Sarah Ibarruri]

55. So anything that exists is "God's will" then. Did she address that? nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. I did not want to get into that debate to be honest

because that would include things like Hitler (and while free will would be the obvious answer), I truly did not feel that be fair.

As I said, I walked away... there are times that it is best.

But this is up there to being told I was going to burn in hell for playing DnD. Same mentality actually.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

73. They don't even attempt to imitate the God they worship, do they? nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. You mean the god who told them to keep their religion in the Temple?

That one?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

83. Any of them, actually. lol They're modeling themselves more on the stereotype of satan nt

[pansypoo53219]

64. i agree w/ NDT, there is no debating these people.

their heads are so full of cotton candy, nothing gets in. only pink or blue crap comes out.

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. I am not sure I wanted that mental!!!

but thanks

[ErikJ]

66. They say they dont go by the Old Testaments anymore

When you point out all the crazy god laws in the Old Test like stoning your child to death if he insults you, they say they go by the New Test now. Then ask them why they still believe in Genesis then.

[nadinbrzezinski]

70. Evil

[dilby]

90. Actually for the time period most of those laws were pretty legit.

And you could not stone your children, the law was written that you had to convince the village elders to agree to get the whole village together and the village stoned your child not you. So basically you had to go and say I am a bad parent and can't control my child please kill them for me. The law itself pretty much ended the stoning of children for Jews who just like all other tribal communities in that area used to practice the stoning of their children. Heck there are still places in the middle east today that still stone their own kids.

[MisterP]

68. I've only encountered this sort of aggresively satisfied and schmuckiness in the Anglosphere

(it actually really sounds they don't like the Big Bang since it's too Popish)
I read Christine Garwood's delightful "The Flat Earth": reading it alongside Witham's "Where Darwin Meets the Bible" really shows how Creationism is scientifically, philosophically, theologically, and sociologically identical with latter-day Planarism (IOW, it stinks in four entirely different ways!)
the few creationists/geocentrists south of the border are mostly just uncaring about how the cosmos is configured, or just directionless "populists"--but it's definitely not a "worldwide phenomenon"

[awoke_in_2003]

69. "But all this is coming out because of Cosmos. It is making these people nuts."

I need to find out what all the hubbub is about. I missed the first episode because I had a friend over, and Sunday's episode too. Since I never watch TV I keep forgetting that there is a show I want to watch. I need to find out what is going on. I suppose the outrage is over crazy things like science and facts.

[nadinbrzezinski]

78. Well when Tyson declares that

Evolution is as much a fact as the law of gravity... (he did)

[awoke_in_2003]

80. Wait- are you saying women weren't created

from a rib of man? You know that makes much more sense

[nadinbrzezinski]

81. I know a shocker

he even went into how you direct evolution and create breeds of dogs, as an example of in this case directed evolution.

Shocking I know.

[awoke_in_2003]

82. I am a man...

but I am about to get the vapors

[Swede Atlanta]

72. There is no reason to try to have an adult dialogue with these people......

they believe what they believe and they are told that anyone who questions their beliefs are of the devil, are attempting to lead them astray, are trying to corrupt them.

In reality I suspect it is a form of mental disorder. They are unable to reason or think for themselves. That is why they cling tenaciously to these beliefs without ever questioning them.

I am a Christian but I question everything about my faith. To me my faith has to be congruous with the world around me and my life experiences, temporal and spiritual. I have no problem reconciling the Big Bang with the concept of Creation. I don't believe in the 7 day story in Genesis. I think this was written down from oral tradition to explain the origin of everything because they lacked our knowledge. I don't believe in the story of Noah either because it is just too far fetched and in fact follows a similar story from Mesopotamia. It is a morality story about the importance to worship God and not be led astray for fear God might punish mankind. There is no evidence of a world-wide flood other than some theories of a break in the Bosporus Straights that may have inundated communities along the modern day Black Sea.

But those conclusions about what I believe as "fact" and "allegory, explanation, etc." are based on my ability to think critically, examine facts and experiences against my faith and arrive at a deeper understanding.

These people are either too lazy to do that or the prospect of not believing something they have just been told to believe is too daunting for them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. I personally believe people can have faith

be spiritual even, and also accept science as not contracting that spirituality.

Hell, a few cosmologists (they work in origins) are very spiritual people indeed. These people would burn the rest of us on the stake though for challenging their "religion."

The ones who were born and raised into this, ok. They do not know better. The ones that scare me are people who grew up in a secular world and have now embraced this fully.

By the way I know exactly where I lost my religion, but I respect people who are spiritual and religious. These folks do not respect any of us though. You and me together!

[Niceguy1]

102. my daughter's Catholic school has

An awesome science lab and as ways kick butt in the science fairs.

The op obviously, if even true, was dealing with an extremist and not your every day typical Christian.

[nadinbrzezinski]

103. Yes, yes it was

I should have asked if this involved some snake handling. It was in that extreme.

By the way, this thinking involves a few people mostly outside the mainstream. But you could even find it within Catholicism, the Opus Dei is still fighting a rear guard action against positivism.

[South_Street]

88. They are indeed out there...

[Bernardo de La Paz]

89. She (flat earther) is already burning in her own hell of denial. nt

[ErikJ]

91. Like only being able to see with one eye in black and white

I cant imagine how anybody can stand believing that everything was created with the snap of gods fingers. That must be hell.
You could spend a whole life studying the fantastic details of a single species evolution or a single geological period of an era.

[panader0]

92. Did she really say the earth was flat? And not a sphere?

[nadinbrzezinski]

98. We did not get into that detail

flat earther these days is short hand for willfully ignorant in matters of science and technology.

[malokvale77]

93. I'm sorry you had to experience that....

I face it every day here in Texas. It is not fun. You know they banned the teaching of critical thinking in schools here. They said it interfered with parental authority. Sad times.

[nadinbrzezinski]

99. We will pay a prize for this idiocy as a nation

but I see that also as a reaction to more and more kids leaving the faith due to that eeeevvvvviiiiillll critical thinking.

As far as experiencing it, if I go inland, I will hear it more often. In a large city in the land of fruits and nuts it is thankfully more rare. In fact, every time we go inland we know we will hear some things you are very familiar with. We have our pockets too.

[malokvale77]

116. yes...

we already are paying that price. But it will get worse.

Texans should never hold themselves up as a shining example. Any time you hear someone brag about how Texas does it, you can be sure they are benefiting off of the exploitation of natural resources and human labor. None of which they pay a fair price for.

My fellow Texans don't like to hear it, but they know it to be true.

[nadinbrzezinski]

118. Agreed, though just one small qualifier

it is not just Texas, though Texas is a good example.

[malokvale77]

121. Of course you're right...

I just happen to know Texas.

Peace out, nadin.

[nadinbrzezinski]

123. I know, I happen to know my county extremely well

why this was out of place, for the county. The back country, would have surprised me in the least.

[malokvale77]

125. They are sneaking in everywhere...

I'm finding it very difficult to find any information on the upcoming election candidates.

All we can do is "keep on keeping on".

Don't let the assholes drive you off.

[nadinbrzezinski]

126. Oh they won't

[malokvale77]

127. Excellent

[AtheistCrusader]

95. I would have asked if hell was endothermic or exothermic.

I want to make sure I dress appropriately.

[VanillaRhapsody]

101. Wow....you should really go into the deep rural south....

its loaded with them....AND they vote.

[Ilsa]

105. HBO is running a documentary on creationist flakes and Darwin.

I caught the last 30 minutes. At one point a scientist explained that if they have to makes up lies to create fairy tales to sell their kids on their dogma, then they are a failure and should give up. But they continue their brainwashing even until they are sent off to college.

The stupidity about creationism is astounding, but what is really scary is when they try to weave a few scientific principles into their reasoning. They try to use crooked science to debunk real science.

[nadinbrzezinski]

106. That might be a reason to finally get HBO

[Ilsa]

109. HBO has some excellent documentaries.

That was the first visual I had of the elderly woman's burned legs when the McDonald's 300° coffee spilled on her, causing deformity and eventually an earlier death in an otherwise healthy octogenarian. That doc was on how we are losing our civil rights for redress in lawsuits, etc.

I like several of the HBO series, too.

[nadinbrzezinski]

111. The last time I watched HBO was over 20 years ago

it is the cost that makes me stop though.

[Ilsa]

115. Understandable. I loathe the fact that

Hubby and I are willing to pay money to watch TV. But we don't do much social stuff because of other impediments, so maybe it evens out for us.

[nadinbrzezinski]

117. True, there is that

I have even considered hulu, or other ways of cutting the cable

[JoeyT]

108. So which member of congress was it? n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

112. Scarily, a local member of congress does visit (rarely) that coffee shop

but no, it was not a critter

[spanone]

110. scary, ain't it?

[nadinbrzezinski]

113. I am glad I live in the land of fruit and nuts

where we really mostly avoid that in the coast. Now go inland...

[malaise]

114. The stupid burns

You really have patience

[pangaia]

128. Hey there, Nadine. There really IS a hell.

And that woman is living in it !!

[nadinbrzezinski]

129. LMAO

[PasadenaTrudy]

135. I'd find another coffee shop!

[nadinbrzezinski]

136. Why should I punish the owner? And it is independent,

For the idiocy of one customer?

[PasadenaTrudy]

137. I was kidding...

hence the laughing smiley...

[nadinbrzezinski]

138. I know, but I do treasure my local coffee shop

We literally were there the first week they opened 17 years ago.

I kept the loyalty card in my wallet when we went to Hawaii for three years.

[Orrex]

139. Do you know this person, or was she a stranger?

If the latter, I can't imagine engaging someone at random on this subject and hoping for any chance of success. Kudos for having the will to make the effort, but I've never enjoyed a great success rate for that sort of conversation.

[nadinbrzezinski]

140. When somebody in a public square almost screams

Yes, I do get involved. The owner by the way does not mind. He had a couple Arizonans once going over SB 1070 and how them 'xicans did not belong. Hubby confronted by asking for their papers. To make a long story short owner refused service to these two racists.

[Orrex]

141. I'm not faulting you for getting involved; I'm just contrasting our experience

That is, I have never seen anyone reconsider his or her views after a coffee shop confrontation. Not once.

Facing a person who believes in a flat earth, I would likely respond if only to demonstrate to onlookers that not everyone in the place is a crazy dumbass. "Getting involved" in that capacity is worthwhile, but I bear in mind that I'm not likely to change the dumbass' opinions.


Overt racist idiocy is in a different category from idiotic flat-eartherism and doesn't really seem to relate to your OP.

[nadinbrzezinski]

142. I do not intend to change their views

I know they will not change. Minds are closed. But if they are loud about it...

[Tree-Hugger]

149. I just don't get it

I am Christian. I am fairly religious in my own way. There is no way at all that science threatens my spirituality. I'm Catholic - which makes me the devil's red-headed stepchild according to some Christians - and I attended Catholic school. My schools were HEAVY on science, real science - not that false creationist bullshit. We were taught evolution is completely real. I have a science degree from a Catholic college. I literally fucking love science. And it does not challenge my faith. I find it enhances it.

So, I have a very hard time understanding how these Christians can view science as such a threat. Personally, I find it insulting to God. You say He is all powerful and shit, created the Earth and all of these fabulous people and critters, yet you refuse to believe He can figure out dinosaurs or evolution? Insulting. I mean, if this Dude can get a Virgin chick pregnant, have His kid turn water into wine and raise people from the dead and then allow himself to die and come back to life.....He can do all that cool shit, but somehow dinosaurs and monkeys evolving is the devil's trickery. Riiiiiiiight.

[nadinbrzezinski]

150. As you wrote, you are the step child

Look at the history of your faith. They used to be that threatened. The Catholic Church has found a way. But these people are where the Holy Mother Church was even 150 years ago.