WHY are they giving a man who probably has less than a decade left a perfectly good heart?!

[FarLeftFist]

Last edited Sun Mar 25, 2012, 04:26 PM - Edit history (1)

These are the same TheoCons that want to invoke God into everything, yet don't heed 'Gods will' or calling. That heart could have went to a 30 yr old with kids and a long life ahead of them. WHY WHY WHY?! Don't get me wrong, I wish EVERYONE could receive a new heart that needed one, but since it isn't possible why are we wasting a perfectly good one on someone that probably won't even live another 5-10 years?! Btw, isn't it a bit 'collectivist' to be granted a new heart and hypocritical on Cheney's part?

EDIT: Since ppl seem to be having a meltdown, my entire point is that not that he should be denied a transplant but that he should have turned one down and let someone else have it, and follow "Gods will". BUT of course we wouldn't expect a self-less act from a man who gets off sending other ppl to die.

[randr]

1. Medical Malpractice

[rustydog]

2. Death panels, anyone? Anyone?

We are better than this. I don't wany you guys deciding whether I deserve medical care or not.

I am not a Cheny fan, as a human being I firmly believe he failed miserably. He is a war monger, a war criminal. We are better than this.

[MattBaggins]

39. Yes I know the medical panels as well

Like the ones that would decide a powerful old white man should get a heart over a younger man or woman.

Like it or not but there are only so many organs at any given time and someone will have that decision made for them. Organs donor lists have to take in consideration the overall health and potential longevity of the patients.

[crunch60]

68. When Cheney had the artificial pump, for I guess 20 months, he traveled

with a full medical staff, everywhere he went, just in case he wouldn't short circuit, or God forbid, his battery went dead. Now who else could afford that? He had billions that he took from Halliburton when he was CEO. In the end, he does get special treatment, regardless if he waited 20 months for his heart transplant.

[slackmaster]

3. He has a really good health insurance policy

[Lint Head]

4. Good morning children. Can you say "reject"? I knew you could.

[Johonny]

5. Why don't they want all Americans to have Cheney type health care

I'm happy anyone gets the care they need. I just don't understand why they think a few should get and the rest nothing.

[etherealtruth]

53. For me ... that is the most important question

[eShirl]

6. Are you always this upset at the idea of elderly transplant recipients?

[FarLeftFist]

7. When they get special treatment over our citizens, yes. Get in line like everyone else.

[eShirl]

11. If he did indeed skip the line, I wonder why he didn't go for the transplant any sooner.

(Not saying he didn't skip it... he certainly had the power to do so if anyone does, and moral/ethical concerns don't seem to have stopped him from pursuing a course of action in the past.)

[K Gardner]

12. He DID WAIT IN LINE. Read before you make a fool out of yourself. n/t

[eShirl]

17. I think they read it but don't believe it.

I tend to believe he did wait on the transplant list like everyone else; otherwise he would have had the transplant much sooner.

[FarLeftFist]

52. Really, tell that to my friends son who was laid to rest after 3yrs on that list.

If you don't think he got special treatment I've got 4 bridges to sell you (although they're crumbling and need infrastructure repair).

[eShirl]

58. Really. Ask my husband how long he waited for each of his transplants.

You can keep your bridges.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. Average wait time is two years

How dd he skip the line when he spent the same average wait time in line?

[laundry_queen]

54. I heard this morning average wait time for a heart

is lower than other organs. 6-12 months was the average wait. Cheney waited 20 months.

That said, from what I've heard is sometimes organs they won't use on younger people, ie organs not in pristine condition, they will use on older people. Even on younger people if they are quite near death they will use imperfect organs. I know of a younger girl who was near death who got new lungs from a smoker. It's entirely possible they wouldn't have used this heart on a younger patient anyhow or that there was no one desperately ill enough to take the chance with this possibly imperfect heart. I'm not happy that the only reason Cheney is alive is because he's rich and that poor people with his problem die everyday, but I'm also not convinced someone more deserving would have gotten this heart.

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. UNOs cares little for money or connections

In this case he got lucky, but money or politics have zero to do with this.

[laundry_queen]

57. Duh.

I'm talking about how he got to this point in the first place. How many people have 5 heart attacks and survive? I'm certain money had a bit to do with keeping him alive the last few years. I wasn't referring to the transplant, at all. 2 different things. If you read my post you'll see how I say I didn't believe he was favoured for this particular heart.

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. Well I know more than a few

With pretty serious cardiopathies.

He got the care he got since he is a retired government employee.

Why we need singe payor...in flack Dick is a poster boy for that one, I know, the irony.

[crunch60]

15. Cheney, because of his power and money, was leakfrogged over hundreds of other

recipients, who were on the transplant list, but simply didn't have Cheney's status. I think that's the real reason people are angry..Plus he is a war criminal and should be held accountable for his crimes. Why should his miserable life be more important than others, who in my mind are very deserving of a heart transplant.

I don't really think age is a factor, but given consideration depending on the recipients general health In Cheney's case that didn't matter, he would have gotten the transplant regardless.

[K Gardner]

18. You need to PROVE that if you're going to assert it. Otherwise DU looks like

Free Republic right now over this issue.

[Rex]

36. Funny.

You are the only one making that claim.

[nadinbrzezinski]

60. Funny make that two

Only because we actually KNOW ho the system works.

[crunch60]

61. This is what I am talking about..

And just why do you think he got the transplant before people who were also in line?

CHICAGO - Doctors say it is unlikely that former Vice President Dick Cheney got special treatment when he was given a new heart at age 71 that thousands of younger people also were in line to receive.
“The ethical issues are not that he had a transplant, but who didn’t?” Dr. Eric Topol, a cardiologist at Scripps Health in La Jolla, Calif.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0312/74448.html#ixzz1qBhmpWSI

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. How long was Chenney in the list?

Two years.

What is the average wait time? Oh yeah two years.

How did he jump ahead?

[Cleita]

8. I agree. My husband died at the age of 78 from kidney failure.

Seven years of dialysis gave him extra time but he was doomed from the moment his diagnosis was made. He was offered a place on the transplant list but he declined because he felt he had lived a long life and that a kidney should go to someone younger, who would have a chance to finish their interrupted lives in good health, to finish raising their children and to accomplish those things they set out to do. It seems Dick Cheney should have done the same, but Dick Cheney is a self-centered sociopath, who is probably afraid to die, cause he really doesn't know what will be waiting for him.

On edit: I forgot to add that most doctors don't like to do elderly transplants because of the risk and also a young organ will go to a younger person really, so the only chance an elderly person has is for another old person do die and leave a health organ behind that would ordinarily not be used because of age. To be fair, it's what Cheney could have gotten, but I doubt it considering who he is.

[EFerrari]

13. My uncle's heart is failing. He's in his mid-80s.

He has the resources to get a new heart but I doubt he will go for it. The doctors don't give him long.

[Cleita]

16. He probably won't get one even if he wants one.

Like I said most transplant doctors don't want to do transplants on the elderly because of the risks and possible malpractice suits. Also, they would need another elderly person's heart because a young victim's heart, say from a fatal accident, will go to a younger person here in California. But my best wishes to your uncle and that he is comfortable to the end.

[EFerrari]

48. Thanks, Cleita.

He's not in this country and I don't know but suspect that he could get a heart if he wanted one. Or, he could go the Cheney route and wait it out where he is.

But I'm pretty sure he won't choose that and have to say, I'm hating this part of life where so many good-byes are in order.

[Major Hogwash]

9. I was wondering the same thing.

Isn't there an age limit or extreme health conditions that would limit this sort of thing from happening?

[MattBaggins]

40. Not really

You do need to consider the over all health of the recipient which age is a component of.

[K Gardner]

10. Oh god, people, PLEASE don't REC this thread....

This just screams "Death Panels". I'm a nurse. I work with patients on transplant lists. Cheney was on the list for, I think they said 20 months. He waited his turn. UNOS has strict rules and regulations that govern placement on these lists.

I think he is a horrible person. I think he should live to be tried for war crimes at The Hague. But not denied medical care any more than any U.S. citizen should be denied care.

This sentiment really is beyond the pale, I don't care how much you dislike him. Look it up. We don't want to be these people, we really don't.

http://www.organtransplants.org/understanding/unos/

[randome]

14. Well said. Thank you.

[Bluenorthwest]

20. Well said.

[tularetom]

23. I hope that's true

I heard somewhere that he had only been on the list for two months and that really pissed me off. I would feel a lot better about the whole process if I knew he had to wait in line like anyone else.

But I guess I'd like to see a copy of "Organ Transplant Rules for Dummies" because I still have a hard time understanding how an elderly person in poor health is a better candidate for a transplant than a younger person with more productive years ahead of them.

BTW, I was born the same year as Cheney.

[eShirl]

27. some factors are: closest tissue "match," prognosis, time in waiting list

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. As his cardiopathy got worst he was placed

Like any other patient, in the priority list. That is where the to months come fom. He's been on the list fr 20+ months, which is average wait time.

[kestrel91316]

26. We don't want laws changed. We just want to be able to express

how much we loathe the man and how undeserving he is of any good in his own life because of how deeply he has harmed any others.

I don't see anybody harping about changing regulations. You can untwist your panties.

[nobodyspecial]

31. Thank you for adding reason and sanity to this discussion

It's days like this that I think DU has gone completely off the rails.

[Rex]

19. Because we live in a plutocracy.

nt.

[valerief]

21. Because he's rich and more important than most other people. He matters. We don't. nt

[BOHICA12]

22. Because he can pay the deductible? Maybe? nt

[arthritisR_US]

24. Money and power? n/t

[Walk away]

25. Maybe they felt sorry for him because he's never had one! nt

[mainer]

28. Imagine if an anti-war Democrat's heart was used to keep him alive

That would be infuriating.

[nobodyspecial]

33. Do we really want a system in which

political ideology gets weighed in?

[mainer]

46. I'm not saying it should be weighed. I'm just saying it's infuriating.

Imagine if your Jewish son's heart went to keep alive a Nazi war criminal.

The system shouldn't disallow it. But it's still an emotional issue.

[nobodyspecial]

47. That remote possibility

will not deter me from advocating for organ donation.

[mainer]

49. Of course not. I've been a designated donor for three decades.

But there's just something about Cheney that makes me pissed off when I think of the massive numbers of war deaths he's responsible for.

[hughee99]

29. So we've gone from "Death panels don't exist" to "Where are the death panels?"

It's amazing how having a repuke involved can change some people's perspective on what is right and what is not.

[nobodyspecial]

34. I agree

[gulliver]

30. Cheney is a national security genius.

Some Joe or Jane 30-year-old with kids would not be able to recognize the next enemy country with WMDs.

Anyway, I don't begrudge Cheney a heart transplant. It looks like he waited his turn. Quite a few Democrats will spout off about it and make jokes about Cheney getting an "implant" and so forth. But it will die down in a couple of days.

I wish Cheney and Bush a long life. They should be here so that every election people can wonder why the Republicans only want to talk about Reagan.

[davsand]

38. I agree Cheney is a vile being. However, it isn't up to me to decide when or how he dies.

I simply do not think it is up to any of us to decide on these things. Having watched my own father die of congestive heaert failure I can tell you that it is an awful thing that I would not wish for anyone--no matter how I feel about their politics or personal ethics. Peace to you all, but I can't criticize anyone for making an attempt to improve their health.



Laura

[rusty fender]

41. I don't think that physicians are certain

about the amount of time any heart transplant recipient has to live, post surgery. The physicians do their best and many factors for survival come into play. Organ rejection, infection, and other organ failure could all doom a recipient.

If all goes well for him, Cheney could live any # of years, and that would certainly exceed the time he had left if he hadn't gotten the transplant.

[LisaL]

43. Are you for real?

"Less a decade" left is not worth living?

[FarLeftFist]

56. It's not a question of him GETTING a new heart it's a question of who ISN'T getting one b/c of him.

[KamaAina]

44. Because he wanted to know what it was like to have one?

[Jennicut]

45. 14 % of people getting heart transplants were over the age of 65 last year.

And it has more to do with how a person older then that can handle the transplant then any moral issue about age. And a certain organ ready for transplant might not be the best fit for every person. It has to be a good match. Cheney waited 20 months for his, about the standard time. I dislike him intensely but have no issue with this.

[Initech]

50. Less than a decade? He's in such poor health that he probably has 3 - 4 years at most.

[w8liftinglady]

62. sometimes,getting matching tissue and blood types is tricky.

All the money in the world can't buy you out of what ever blood type,anti-bodies you possess.There may be some wiggle room,but donation is pretty cut and dry.

[FreeState]

63. Because we believe in compassion and he waited in line like everyone else? N/T

[luckyleftyme2]

64. I copied this from a right wing blog

The "debate," such as it is, can be seen in full force over at Democratic Underground. It is truly amazing how those enlightened, peaceful people would settle for little less than seeing Cheney crucified, drawn, quartered and burned at the stake - after a suitable three or four years of torture, that is.

this is typical of a repuke,s thinking! and since we are all liberals we know that next week he will claim he donated the heart!
the week after he will claim the republicans invented the operation!
the week after that the republican own media will confirm this!
after that it will become an historical fact !
you see only republicans own guns,create jobs,pay fair wages,go to church on sunday, serve their country in battle and tell the same lies over and over again till they believe them themselves!
roflmao at this pompous a-hole!
how do ya like them apples eagle!

[K Gardner]

65. Well, that proves the point doesn't it? These cruel and tasteless

conversations don't belong here.

There is nothing funny or cute about it. We do claim to be "enlightened and peaceful". And this conversation is anything but.

The "repukes" are right about this one.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

66. Darth Vader didn't have a heart did he?

[sadbear]

67. All future heart transplants to patients 65 or older

will be affected by the success or failure of Cheney's therapy. If he dies soon, you can bet a lot of people will demand that hearts should not be "wasted" on the elderly. If he lives long, more people will be supportive of older heart transplant recipients.