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steve2470
(37,481 posts)It's a lot of work and much appreciated !
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)steve2470
(37,481 posts)This place is flooded with trolls, and MIRT usually gets them very quickly.
MADem
(135,425 posts)I think MIRT does a fantastic and difficult job, and I appreciate the work they do!
Zorra
(27,670 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)Thanks for taking out the trash 24/7! You're good at it justin, stick with it! 
adirondacker
(2,921 posts)Thanks for doing the laundry!
Rex
(65,616 posts)One just wonders how many more socks our weekend warrior has!
adirondacker
(2,921 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)nt.
Squinch
(59,769 posts)all those people on the site at the same time. EEEEEKK!
steve2470
(37,481 posts)Squinch
(59,769 posts)
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Very right wing.
steve2470
(37,481 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)DU1 and DU2 had some epic trolls. This place would be unreadable without MIRT constantly killing off auto-spammers and library girl types.
Squinch
(59,769 posts)I see her referred to a lot, though. Seems her style might live on.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Never heard her called anything but 'library girl'. It is so sad that one would be that obsessed what a place they hate so much. Must build up tons of bad karma imo.
Squinch
(59,769 posts)
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)And at it for a decade now, or more.
SidDithers
(44,333 posts)She might sign up and be banned more than a hundred times every month.
It's fascinating, really.
Sid
steve2470
(37,481 posts)Response to steve2470 (Reply #231)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)
15 petabyte document dump incoming!
greatauntoftriplets
(179,146 posts)MIRT works to keep DU from sucking.
TBF
(36,856 posts)Team member on MIRT and deserve kudos yourself.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)You guys are great.
Kingofalldems
(40,325 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)
seaglass
(8,185 posts)needs to go. If exposing it prevents it in the future then it's all good.
I know there is not much of it and I do really like some of the DUers involved in the latest brouhaha but that was what I least liked about MIRT during my brief stint.
Heidi
(58,846 posts)Otherwise, it's little more than CYA and passive-aggressive attempt to throw a whistleblower under the bus.
OKNancy
(41,832 posts)This is what really happened. The OP was venting, blowing off steam. There was never any intention of the OP of the thread or any member responding to it to call for a ban of Pitt. The person who posted it in GD exaggerated or read the whole thing wrong.
Heidi
(58,846 posts)I agree to disagree with you on this point. Admins see every CS alert, and the domain of MIRT is possible malicious intruders. It's pretty clear that Pitt isn't a malicious intruder. There was no need for any discussion by MIRT.
Hassin Bin Sober
(27,472 posts)Hold the fucking phone.
Then why the fuck kick it up to admin?
I support kicking it upstairs means what? And all the votes supporting kicking upstream.
Anytime I've been on MIRT that means admins should look at this for possible nuking
Give me a fucking break.
By all means, it was just a steam blowy off kick up to the admins. Unbelievable.
And you say this after saying to trust you? World class gaul.
Oh that rascall Will Pitt, he's such a rapscallions. Let's blow off steam by kicking his thread to admins.
If I had any lingering doubt why I posted the ENTIRE thread, you just removed it.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Outing people you don't like seems to be a hobby of yours.
Rex
(65,616 posts)My what a busy day for you! 
pintobean
(18,101 posts) 
Autumn
(48,977 posts)You are going to get a lot of crap but good on you for doing what you did. I lost interest in my last MIRT term when another MIRT member started a post on another DUER sans a jury hide and I was on the jury that let it stand. I didn't have the guts to go public with it though.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)and specific members. I agree that those threads shouldn't happen in MIRT, but it looks like EarlG took care of it. Taking it public like he did is destructive to the system. He does the same thing with SOP alerts. If he wanted Pitt to know about it, he could have PMed him.
Autumn
(48,977 posts)if anything I think it shows that it works.
Rex
(65,616 posts)would go back to a moderated system to avoid said transparency.
Autumn
(48,977 posts)old Mods miss it.
Too bad.
maddezmom
(135,060 posts)Autumn
(48,977 posts)I like the fact that DUers can participate in both and see how it all works.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)I have seen more than one say they'd never want to mod again.
Autumn
(48,977 posts)I would give you a link but the posts in Meta are gone. 
That might have been before your time.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)
Generic Other
(29,082 posts)then here's a glass bottom boat. 
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023195206
BainsBane
(57,771 posts)MIRT privacy was violated to go after someone you didn't like.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4602340
Though the post he reproduced had nothing to do with an ATA post and you made a point of justifying Opiate69's use of an old thread he hunted up from months before his own MIRT term began.
And the irony of ironies:
Here's a hof thread about the sad they had for xulamaude being PPRed.
Now BB's mocking you in hof, which is also typical.
Once again, your clearly contradictory positions have nothing to do with principal but instead is all about petty personal vendettas and which complete stranger on the internet you decide to dislike.
It truly is remarkable that you can spend so much time reading HOF yet understand none of it.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)The MIRT and host forums are not. Can you comprehend the difference?
Rex
(65,616 posts)Neither do hosts.
but those groups are not public for a reason. It's pretty arrogant for someone to decide to publicly disclose who's doing what there. It's also agenda driven.
BainsBane
(57,771 posts)Then they must be defended at all costs. You made that very clear in the posts linked above.
Here is the post referencing the MIRT correspondence you asked about: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4598543
pintobean
(18,101 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)about it.
I don't think it is right to release mirt info like that. It was wrong for both of them to do it. BainsBanes point is that there should be the same outrage about it.
opiate69
(10,129 posts)One, unattributed sentence is equivalent to an entire thread (names, source, and all) being posted? Spare me. You know Damn well that there is no non disclosure agreement in MIRT, either tacit or implicit.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I don't think mirt stuff that is copy and pasted should be released.
No one is saying you broke the rules. All she is saying is that there should be equal outrage.
opiate69
(10,129 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)opiate69
(10,129 posts)So, no. I don't see a problem with pulling one sentence out, posting it without naming the poster, and without attributing it to MIRT, from time to time if a situation warrants. And that, as I've maintained repeatedly, is a far cry from going into GD and posting an entire thread, names and all, and essentially saying "this is what is happening behind the curtain."
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I don't think it was appropriate. Mirt is not a tool to settle scores or use against people that we dislike.
Mirt is for members to do there job everyday for the betterment of DU.
While I have corrected a mirt member or two in the forums for misrepresentation I never posted actual posts in mirt.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Opiate could have, and should have, used a similar comment from the open areas of DU. They were available. But she disclosed that it came from MIRT and said that he did. She also claims that I knew it came from MIRT, and I didn't. Confusing and twisting facts is nothing new here. She's attacking two DUers with false statements. I assume that's why her post was hidden. The real facts are available for all to see.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)because Opiate didn't say where he got it. At the time, I didn't even know he was on MIRT. I assumed it came from GD or HOF. BB is the one who disclosed that it came from MIRT, then she accused Opiate of making that disclosure.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I don't think copying and posting mirt conversations is right at all.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Like I said, she made very similar comments elsewhere.
I don't think making disclosures and blaming someone else is right at all.
I don't think assuming someone knows something and stating that assumption as fact is right at all.
I don't think leveling accusations based on false assumptions is right at all.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)That's where SHE disclosed that it came from MIRT. Then she came to this thread and claimed that Opiate made that disclosure.
She also stated "you posted an excerpt of that discussion, in violation of confidentiality guidelines for MIRT." Going by what's been posted in this thread, that bolded part is false.
She came here and attacked me, assuming that I knew that the excerpt that Opiate posted came from MIRT. She had a post hidden for her attacks.
I don't know if you are trying to join in that attack, or if you're trying to gloss over her actions. Either way, I don't really care. I'm tired of running in circles with you. Good night.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I am sorry but I think it was clear from that thread to anyone eho read it and from looking at the thread you were paying attention to it that it was mirt info.
I think she had good reason to belive you knew because you responded more than once in the tread. Sorry but I don't think she twisted anything.
I ran no circles her but posted what was in the threzd you actively participated in and I think she had every rezson to think you read her thread.
Good night pintobean. I am sorry but I call them as I see them. No offense.
opiate69
(10,129 posts)Blatant call outs have always been against CS.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)What she said you gave out mirt info which you did annd she thought he knew. Judging from the thread I think she had good reason to think that.
Good night opiate.
Response to hrmjustin (Reply #357)
Post removed
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Are you being civil?
Btw I remember that thread and if I was her I would have had the same thought that you looked it up.
She could not have known what you just said and considering the fact you two don't get along she might not believe you.
opiate69
(10,129 posts)(You know.. Baines' old friend), I'd say I was far more civil than that worthless troll deserved. Also, you may note, I'm not running around (or rather having others run around) bemoaning the fact that I got a couple posts hidden. Even though the two most recent ones are, frankly, head scratchers.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)But you still got 4 hides so I don't think you should you should throw stones at her.
Kettle black sort of thing.
opiate69
(10,129 posts)And you can bet your life that that is a statement you will never see certain members post. Nor their cadre of sycophants.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Good night.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)and calling me a liar. I didn't read her posts because I didn't care what she had to say. There was no bogus hide. If you are going to attack someone, be truthful.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I am not calling you anything.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)read it.
Your right we are talking in circles. Good night
pintobean
(18,101 posts)I just noticed that she has another hidden post down-thread. Two juries have determined that her "position" is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
I made two comments in that thread, both of them were replies to opiate. She never replied to me. For her to expect me to, and assume that I did, read her post is ridiculous, especially given the screen cap I posted above. It shows that she holds others to different standards than she holds herself.
You and I have taken the same position on HBS's disclosures. You and I both posted in that March 3rd sub-thread. Neither of us commented on the source of opiate's quote in that thread. If I'm suppose to be guilty of something, shouldn't you be also? It looks like another double standard and it appears to show an agenda.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I did defend her in the thread to say she was a great mirt worker despite whatever anyone said about her.
But I think she was reasonable to suspect you read it.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)about people reading things.
https://www.google.com/search?q=BainsBane+you+didn%27t+read&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com
That's why the post I capped stuck in my mind. I guess it all depends on the accusations she is making at the time. This is the first time I've seen her claim to assume that someone did read something, though.
You also didn't address why it was okay for her to call me out, but not you, when our actions and/or inactions were the same. I didn't say that you should have said something.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)And you are assuming we haven't had a conversation on it.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)and why wasn't she under the same impression about you? I don't really care if you two have had a conversation about it. What matters is what is being said in the open. You haven't given any answer to the discrepancies in who she chose to attack and not attack, when two people did the same thing.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)You always get into fights with her. I don't.
She thinks you agreed with opiate based on your responses.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)
It looks like it doesn't matter that she's locked out of this thread.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)that was the reason she attacked me in this thread. She claimed that I have different standards for people based on who I like and who I don't like. It's pretty funny that she failed to show that that was the case with me, but exposed that it is the case with her.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)Regardless, she called me out for not commenting on that, but not you. You didn't comment about that being a MIRT excerpt either. Somehow, that was a horrible thing for me, but not for you. Now, why did she have a double standard? Do you not see the hypocrisy, or do you just refuse to admit it because she's your friend?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)She knew I was not ok with what he did.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)The fact that I didn't comment doesn't say anything. To assume something from nothing is ridiculous.
I'll say it again, because you don't seem to be able to grasp it. I did not read her disclosure that it was from MIRT until after she called me out here.
Even if I had, not commenting about it would not mean I approved of him posting it. The fact is, she was the person who disclosed that it came from MIRT, not opiate.
Now, I'm done here. I've posted the same simple facts over and over. If you refuse to see, or understand, that's your problem.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)opiate69
(10,129 posts)Again, like pintobean said, many of her assumptions in even that post were demonstrably wrong. But whatever. Far be it for me to throw a wrench in your continual defense of her.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)And that he participated in the thread and she had every right to think he say it.
Response to Rex (Reply #154)
Post removed
opiate69
(10,129 posts)1. I didn't "search back months". Another intrepid MIRTer did, because your old friend xulamaude/sargasssea was trolling, again, and was being discussed.
2. HBS posted an entire thread, with multiple posts by multiple members, without excising their names. I posted one small sentence, from one poster, and neither identified that poster, nor the fact that it was a MIRT thread from whence the quote derived. The situations couldn't be less analogous.
BainsBane
(57,771 posts)only you think it justified because it was for a good cause, to attack me.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)BainsBane
(57,771 posts)What Opiate posted was a post from MIRT and you defended it, despite the fact I made clear he had searched back months into the MIRT posts to produce it. Can you not comprehend it's the same thing? Of course not. More double talk will ensure because as usual all you care about is which complete stranger online you decide is part of the cool kids at the junior high lunch table and nothing at all to do with principal, politics, or anything of substance. You made a point of supporting Opiate's disclosure of a MIRT post while attacking HassenbinSober's, for no reason other than Opiate attacked someone you despise, me. Opiate did exactly what HassenbinSober did, and you defended him. That you attack one person for the same thing you defend another for shows exactly what you are. All of that was clear in the conversation between me and Opiate at the time, so you knew full well what you were supporting.
Link to post of discussion from MIRT forum: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4598543
pintobean
(18,101 posts)that was a quote from MIRT. If he did, I wasn't aware of it.
Lars39
(26,546 posts)Generic Other
(29,082 posts)I didn't have the stomach for it. I feared I would end up letting my dislike of someone cloud my judgment. I at least left with my integrity intact.
Bobbie Jo
(14,344 posts)I stopped participating when I saw how some hosts were using their position to advocate for posters they support and the like....
Too many inconsistencies with the locks, but the worst abuse I witnessed was watching a host aggressively advocate for her own OP in the Hosts Forum, while using access to the alerter's identity to come after them for having alerted on their post.
Maybe it's different now, who knows.
Puglover
(16,380 posts)most difficult thing about moderating.
You and I both have strongly help opinions so I know you probably felt then this went on.
I tried very hard to be objective with posts that honestly made my teeth ache. And there were several times when I recused myself when I knew I would have a hard time being impartial.
And I loathed and still loath moderators and or hosts that abuse the privilege. And have been vocal about it which has landed me in hot water more then a few times.
Bobbie Jo
(14,344 posts)I never tried a mod stint, but I think it would have been difficult to do the job while trying to participate on the board.
I remember having a lot of respect for the mods who could pull this off gracefully.
Puglover
(16,380 posts)So as I said in another post. I didn't post at all on the board. As you know I can be a bit er uh...opinionated.
It made me a bit insulated but kept me out of trouble.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)(it used to be forbidden and then was loosened up) could not /should not participate in flamewars. It made the Primary battles extremely hard, but integrity was enforced and Moderators were bumped when they couldn't do it. One of my very best DU friends was bumped from the Moderator role because of it.
Puglover
(16,380 posts)by not posting on the main board. At all.
Hello and Good Morning!
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts) Number23
(24,544 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,344 posts)
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)It was like the Hall Monitors in school. Equipped with their "Host" hats, they (metaphorically) marched around with no shortage of self-importance, wielding their little power, zap this post/thread because of biases but the same type of post would be left if it was someone they liked.
I enjoyed by my stay there just because I felt it my duty to stir up a little shit, which I did, quite effectively, I might add. They're probably still talking about it. There's a couple in there that would go absolutely apoplectic if I ever signed up again. 
Bobbie Jo
(14,344 posts)I didn't get a Host hat. 
FSogol
(47,634 posts)on behalf of their "friends."
Bobbie Jo
(14,344 posts)One of the tackiest moves I've ever seen here.
Rex
(65,616 posts)and then the hosts show up and put an end to the shenanigans.
Autumn
(48,977 posts)I was a Meta host That was fun.
Rex
(65,616 posts)That was crazy!
pintobean
(18,101 posts)
Rex
(65,616 posts)Your memory is impeccable!
pintobean
(18,101 posts) 
I've had far more shutouts on the jury system, than agreements. Still doesn't stop me when I think I see something wrong. Still that was one for the record books!
A-Schwarzenegger
(15,821 posts)Transparency, baby.
bluesbassman
(20,384 posts)Admin has many options at it's disposal to deal with a questionable post or member who is out of MIRT's purview. NOBODY was calling for a "ban" in the thread that you so maliciously posted in GD.
I have no idea what prompted you to take the action that you did, but it was not in the spirit of "transparency", that much I'm sure of.
Hassin Bin Sober
(27,472 posts)Skinner made his post in MIRT. You said your piece in MIRT. But you want to keep running your flapper 3 hours later..
I can keep talking if it suits you.
bluesbassman
(20,384 posts)You post a hit piece on the MIR Team, now you want to let it drop, and I'm "running my flapper"?
They must love you in the 3-D world.
uppityperson
(116,022 posts)to be so concerned with transparency.
Thank you for honoring my request that you quit repeating the lie that I want Will banned. I appreciate that.
Hassin Bin Sober
(27,472 posts)I really couldn't care less who you pm'd besides me.
The fact remains you started a MIRT thread on a long term DUer, absent a hide, in an attempt to get him in trouble with the admins. Yeah, yeah, I know, you just wanted to send him up to admins for hugs and kisses. That was an abuse of your authority. It was also after you sent 2 failed sop alerts on the thread and (I assume - the header was redacted, iirc) at least 1 CS alert.
I'll be happy to post skinners message.
Here is your pm:
uppityperson
I would very much appreciate it if you would stop
saying I tried to get Will Pitt banned as I did not. Admin and I pm'd and I have also pm'd Will about it all.
I would appreciate your stopping spreading this lie.
Thank you.
uppityperson
(116,022 posts)As evidence has shown. And as Skinner commented.
I am glad you couldn't care less who I pm'd besides you as that would indicate an unhealthy obsession.
Hassin Bin Sober
(27,472 posts)It appears the first SOP alert was meant to be a CS alert. Certainly someone with your intimate knowledge of the working of DU realizes hosts don't deal with CS and or/hide threads. Yes?
It's Ok. You got it though on the second try. And then headed off to Mirt.
General Discussion Author: WilliamPitt
What I've learned about the Affordable Care Act
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024685964
Alerted by uppityperson: is it within DU community standards to call Pres Obama a "piece of shit used car salesman, fuck you"? I know this is will ptt, but still, over the top inappropriate. Hide please.
General Discussion Author: WilliamPitt
What I've learned about the Affordable Care Act
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024685964
Alerted by SidDithers: "Fuck you, Mr. President, you piece of shit used-car salesman. " is way, way, way over-the-top. I'm sure this post has been alerted on a pile of times already. I want to add my voice to the chorus that says this isn't appropriate for DU.
General Discussion Author: WilliamPitt
What I've learned about the Affordable Care Act
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024685964
Alerted by uppityperson: Seriously? Used car salesman piece of shit
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)about your actions publicly?
Hassin Bin Sober
(27,472 posts)Maybe you should get the OK of the biggest squawkers in Mirt. I would be happy to do it.
You have my OK to post skinner's comments. If everyone else is Ok with it I'm cool with posting the whole shootn' match.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Hassin Bin Sober
(27,472 posts)Get on the horn and get the OK and I will post everything. I don't have a problem with that.
I figured Skinner's locking of Misanthrope's thread and Skinner's thread would be the end of it. But Bluesbassman and Uppity want to keep it going. I said my piece yesterday but I can keep talking.
Clearly someone emailed "secret" mirt business. Get their OK and I will post.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I am just asking for the one post skinner wrote. If you feel you shouldn't release it I understand.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)I figured Skinner's locking of Misanthrope's thread and Skinner's thread would be the end of it. But Bluesbassman and Uppity want to keep it going.
Why would you think Skinner locking that thread would be the end of it? When Skinner locked the WP thread it wasn't the end for you. 24 hours later you trotted it to GD.
uppityperson
(116,022 posts)the timing.
uppityperson
(116,022 posts)Hassin Bin Sober
(27,472 posts)I figured when the boss shows up, shuts down the pool and speaks it's best everybody gets out of the pool.
I said my piece in both Misanthrope's mirt thread and the GD thread where I posted the copy.
I figured I would stay out of the Mirt thread and not fan any flames and I didn't have anything I wanted to add.
5 hours later I get a happy gram from BBassman. An email from Uppity. A post from uppity. And now Hrmjustin is trying to call me out.
I guess I read things wrong.
What do you want me to do?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I told said if you don't want to then don't.
uppityperson
(116,022 posts)Last edited Sun Mar 23, 2014, 06:24 AM - Edit history (1)
1. Acknowledge you posted in the GD thread 24 hours after Admin locked the MIRT thread and instead of doing as instructed by Skinner in his pinned MIRT thread. "If you think one of your fellow MIR Team members is not doing the job properly, please let the administrators know immediately. You can send us an email, or you can click the Alert Abuse link on a post here in this forum. "
2. justin asked you, as had I previously, that since you seem so taken by transparency, why you did not post Skinner's post. "Since you are releasing info publicly would you consider posting what skinner said in mirt about your actions publicly?" Not anyone else's post, just Skinner's. You never answered those questions and could do so now. You told me "I'll be happy to post skinners message" in reply #199 yet have not. Of course you do not have to copy/paste anything from MIRT, but you could explain why you decided to not continue to do so, especially given your strong desire for transparency.
3. Understand that my sending you a pm saying I would very much appreciate it if you would stop saying I tried to get Will Pitt banned as I did not does not mean I am asking you to continue.
bluesbassman
(20,384 posts)176. You are categorically wrong HSB. "Kicking" it upstairs does not mean MIRT is looking for a ban.
Admin has many options at it's disposal to deal with a questionable post or member who is out of MIRT's purview. NOBODY was calling for a "ban" in the thread that you so maliciously posted in GD.
I have no idea what prompted you to take the action that you did, but it was not in the spirit of "transparency", that much I'm sure of.
Which was in response to this post:
24. Wait a minute. Blowing off steam??????
Hold the fucking phone.
Then why the fuck kick it up to admin?
I support kicking it upstairs means what? And all the votes supporting kicking upstream.
Anytime I've been on MIRT that means admins should look at this for possible nuking
Give me a fucking break.
By all means, it was just a steam blowy off kick up to the admins. Unbelievable.
And you say this after saying to trust you? World class gaul.
Oh that rascall Will Pitt, he's such a rapscallions. Let's blow off steam by kicking his thread to admins.
If I had any lingering doubt why I posted the ENTIRE thread, you just removed it.
Sure it was five hours later, and that was because it was five later when I read this: Anytime I've been on MIRT that means admins should look at this for possible nuking
You knew that was untrue when you wrote it. I just made sure everyone else knows it too.
I'll repeat what I said and stand by it: I have no idea what prompted you to take the action that you did, but it was not in the spirit of "transparency", that much I'm sure of.
Hassin Bin Sober
(27,472 posts)Do I have your OK to post Skinner's thread on the matter?
Uppity wants it. Hrmjustin has obviously seen a copy from a pal and wants it.
I guess I read he general tone of the responses wrong. When Skinner posted his "What have we learned " thread I figured that was a call for everybody out of the pool.
The thread seemed, to me at least, a cessation of hostilities. I figured that was it.
Even your post seemed to me to have a "moving on" feel about it. That's why I was a little taken aback when I got your reply to my 5 or 6 hour old post (I've been through two time zones so I'm not sure how the time stamps are calculated).
I would like to post the entire thread including skinners OP if that is OK.
bluesbassman
(20,384 posts)It's his OP after all.
uppityperson
(116,022 posts)not post it. You said you would be happy to. And did not. Later I wrote "either do as you said you would or explain clearly why not".
This does NOT mean "Uppity wants it" to have you "post Skinner's thread" as you claim. Again you claim I say things I have not said or sone and again I request you to STOP doing so. I asked, a couple times, WHY you have not posted Skinner's post.
justin wrote"Since you are releasing info publicly would you consider posting what skinner said in mirt about your actions publicly?" Not anyone else's post, just Skinner's.
NEITHER of us "want it" as you claim. We both asked why you had not posted it. And neither of us, contrary to your claim, said anything about "Skinner's thread" but simply his post. Skinner's one post.
You continue to mischaracterize what we have written as well as our intentions. Again the request to stop. STOP it.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)1) I in no way indicated that you did. You're being very dishonest to even suggest that you did.
2) You didn't care about what we thought before you posted the other thread in the middle of GD--you asking now is ringing very hollow & dishonest.
3) I've never seen someone twist a simple question into so much finger pointing.
The question was simple.
I figured Skinner's locking of Misanthrope's thread and Skinner's thread would be the end of it
The locking of the original thread was not the end of it for you---as you posted the thread in GD 24hrs AFTER it was locked. Why the moving of the goal posts?
At any rate, I'm done with this now. I've said what I wanted both here and in the MIRT thread.
uppityperson
(116,022 posts)Autumn
(48,977 posts)on MIRT can see it, why are you aware of what Skinner is saying in MIRT? You are not on MIRT this term.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)uppityperson
(116,022 posts)but am also 2 obviously different people on DU. 
And huh, you didn't post all the alerts that came into Hosts forum, just the 3 you say are me. Interesting picking and choosing. Funny how 3 other Duers with intimate knowledge of DU workings also alerted, isn't it?
Someone else sent the CS alert. "I assume - the header was redacted" is only you assuming as is your editorializing otherwise. Beware assuming as it will only get you further into trouble.
This is looking more and more like you on a personal vengeance mission. Odd since I do not recall much interaction with you in the past. I am sure I will notice from here on out though as you seem to have a personal issue. With that, I am done with you and this. I will not ruin a lovely "thank you mirt" thread with this sort of stuff.
Hassin Bin Sober
(27,472 posts)Those three are in the OP in hosts. I don't know if more were added in the thread.
That's your name on the 2 SOP alerts. Yes?
uppityperson
(116,022 posts)AND I still have the ability to make Admin do things they don't want to though.
Hassin Bin Sober
(27,472 posts)I said you posted made two sop alerts and probably a CS alert (the header was redacted). Let's forget about the Cs alert for now.
In response to your denial I copied and pasted the entire OP that was started in Hosts' on will pitts thread.
That OP contains three SOP alerts. Two SOP alerts from you (those two alerts I said you made) and an alert made by Sid.
Are you following me?
You made two SOP alerts. Yes? Agree?
uppityperson
(116,022 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)of your PM was suppose to intimidate you.
Some people just can't learn from their own failures.
Your PM was polite and reasonable.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)sooner rather than later. We see 6-0 hides on long-timers on a regular basis. Most of them are people sniping at someone they've been in a pissing contest with. Those are usually relegated to the "Good hide; not ours" category. It's the ones where we think someone's starting to have a meltdown that get sent up, to give the admins a heads up that there's a potential problem.
As far as MIRT's opinions in re bans of long-timers, I can't imagine the admins giving them any more weight than they give to the opinions of other DUers.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Heidi
(58,846 posts)that you're overlooking its impact on the community.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Heidi
(58,846 posts)Have you ever been in a cockpit before? You ever seen a grown man naked? Have you ever been in a... in a Turkish prison?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)You get to know one another and it works. Maybe once or twice a term there is a thread that goes astray but Mirt people who show up do there job well.
Note I said those who show up. I hate when those who don't show up use their postion to complain how others do their job. The fact is every term Has those who never show up to help. I hate that.
Heidi
(58,846 posts)I said thank you to mirt and I am full of hate?
Heidi
(58,846 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I dislike it would have been better.
Heidi
(58,846 posts)It would be better for the community if everyone with the privilege of hosting or MIRTing would keep their eyes on discussion of ideas rather than people/personalities. That was once the admins' ideal, but this principle seems to have been lost somewhere along the way. I quit moderating when I felt myself being caught up in it, and my husband did, too. We're not better or smarter than anybody, but if we don't have our principles, we got nothin'.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I don't think mirt posts should be copy and pasted outside of mirt.
Heidi
(58,846 posts)Neither hosts nor MIRT members were asked by admins to sign NDAs, and you all knew going into it that none of what you posted in your respective forums was confidential. It is beyond me why any of you would protest any Host Forum or MIRT Forum content being copied and pasted.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)People who try to use the forum as a platform to air their grievances about this group or that group of long time members who, in their opinion, "don't belong on DU".
I've done 3 terms on MIRT, now.. The first 2 I was impressed by how well people- many of whom had long running disagreements outside of MIRT- were able to leave their personal grinding axes outside the door and perform professionally on the joint task at hand.
The last term, unfortunately, there were a few characters who were determined to drag all sorts of meta style drama into the MIRT forum, who thought that MIRT was the place to launch into extended diatribes against groups of long time DU members that they personally had some beef with. It was grossly inappropriate, IMHO, although I didn't weigh in on those discussions because I felt that would only exacerbate and perpetuate the situation. It simply DID NOT BELONG.
Also, I want to remind you, since you keep hammering that one point- there is NO official mandate for any level of MIRT participation. Every time I was on the team I was fortunately able to put in some solid time, but different people have different abilities or inclinations to participate. Admin puts a large number of people on the team deliberately with the understanding that people will participate as they are able, AFAIUI. Also MIRT operates on consensus, and there is no seniority or "boss" or weighted vote based upon how much one is there. EVERY term there have been people who participate more, or less. Far more problematic than people not participating as much, to my mind, again is those who would mistakenly appoint themselves as some sort of authority inside MIRT, or try to -again- use that forum as a platform to bad mouth groups of long time DU members. Not everyone here is going to agree on everything, and anyone who can't handle that, probably doesnt belong on MIRT.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)My one complaint that I keep hammering is the fact if you don't help then don't complain how we do our job.
There are ways to deal with threads and topics that didn't belong.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Weighed in on a topic and was attacked for it with the "where have you been" line.
Weighing in on topics is what everyone in MIRT does. Only at that particular point was this arbitrary rule about "you need to participate such and such amount to have an opinion" pulled out of thin air. The member you were trying to silence was just as much "doing their job" as everyone else in that thread thought they were.
It was another in a long series of inappropriate meta style acts that I saw that term. Like I said, I've done 3 now. The first two teams were very professional. That one, certain members, not so much. And Skinner went to the trouble of making it even harder for MIRT to get involved in that sort of crap, immediately afterwards, IIRC.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)"People who dont participate try to tell the ones who do how to do their job"
That's why, and I think you know exactly what you're talking about. Well, in that instance, the "ones doing their job" were trying to stir a whole pot of meta style crap in the MIRT forum. Skinner, who also "rarely participates" in that forum, eventually locked the thread because of the meta stuff. He also felt it didn't belong.
So perhaps the thing to do is let it go. Just a suggestion.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Am I allowed to speak my mind?
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Like I said, Ive done 3 terms on MIRT, and if I do another, I will be a MIRT member with exactly the same authority- no more, no less- than any OTHER mirt member. That applies if I participate every day, or if I never participate. Made up rules to the contrary, notwithstanding.
I can only hope that people remember to leave their personal grudges outside the forum door, next time.
Also, regarding the extensive subthread- the entire point of "know your troll", etc. is to help team members recognize the patterns of some of our repeat, long time disruptors. Whether or not someone feels a zombie has been banned unfairly, whether or not they feel they are an "important voice", is irrelevant IMHO. If someone has been banned multiple times, many of them directly by admin, there is probably a good reason.
Anyone who can't allow their repeat return zombie "friends" to be banned by MIRT, or who has direct knowledge of a repeatedly banned zombie running around DU, does not belong on MIRT imho.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)If you want him to make a rule about weighted participation, perhaps you should bring it up in ATA.
Similarly, I'd suggest that the people who want to sign up for MIRT so they can use that forum to issue edicts about how such and such "group is a cesspool and a blight, and needs to go", should similarly instead go over to ATA and make their requests on the matter known to admin, rather than clogging up the work forum which is designed to catch trolls and repeat zombies like the ones detailed in the "know your troll" thread.
After all, we all want the same thing, right? A well-functioning MIRT team that is able to catch trolls, spammers, and repeat zombies who continually sign up under new names.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Second I am well aware that skinner does not want meta drama there. But he did not lock that thread.
I am in agreement that people should not use their position as a way to push an agenda. I know I didn't. I alwYs thought you did your job very well.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)And I admit that I have them.
One of the things I liked about MIRT was the "we're in it together" feel. I was disappointed that it was not as prevalent the last time around. I may sign up again later this year, in which case hopefully we'll get to work together again.
And I agree with your OP's premise, MIRT generally does a bang-up job, and thankless. It's like Disneyland, most of the time you don't even see the cleanup that goes on behind the scenes.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Response to hrmjustin (Reply #390)
Warren DeMontague This message was self-deleted by its author.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Can you prove that by a single entry posted by someone who dislikes her. She stated she felt it was a zombie. That is what you say in mirt when you believe there is a zombie.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)anyone who wants to serve on MIRT needs to be prepared to ban people they may otherwise agree with, particularly those who have been repeatedly banned before.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts) seaglass
(8,185 posts)about 4 known disruptors that are nuke on sight. If I recall that thread there wasn't an alert or a bad post made just a head's up that this user was familiar with DU and was likely a returnee.
Now I seem to recall that Skinner has said that people who are banned can return as long as they don't exhibit the same behavior and are low key - obviously a returnee that stirs crap upon return and gets posts hidden is not flying under the radar and is not who he is talking about. And there are exceptions to the rule. But while I was on MIRT the person did not cause trouble.
So I see nothing wrong with acknowledging that someone had previously been on DU. There are people posting right now who have previously been banned. Pretzel Warrior who was previously banned just got banned for the 2nd time and he was a shit-stirrer, lots of people knew for 2 years that loli was a previously banned poster.
Can you see how there are some inconsistencies here?
I guess you knew who the returnee was - I certainly didn't and still don't, nor do I know if she had posts hidden before she was banned, I wasn't on MIRT any longer. Are you making assumptions that people knew who she was?
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)MIRT, I would have brought it to the attention of both the team AND admin. I think I was on MIRT when he signed up, and I supported admin review of the account multiple times.
Yes, admin has said that some people who have been banned can return, however, that is not a blank check AFAIUI. Someone who has been banned multiple times, it seems to me it's pretty clear there's a problem. As it was, MIRT did not ban that person the last time; actually, Earl did, so obviously some decision has been made fairly high up that they don't want that person coming back over and over.
There would only be an inconsistency, from my point of view, if I was saying "yes let's let so and so come back"... I've never said that ANYONE banned should be allowed back. My personal take is that sock puppets and zombies inherently defeat any and all purpose of having a site where there is some control or sanction for who and what gets posted. To wit, "banning" becomes meaningless if people can just doff a new hat and come right back.
As far as the returnee- one time, at least, they came back under a name where they flat-out admitted who they were. Another time they announced within their first 10 posts that they were previously banned. And even then, that time, my take was (despite my widely exaggerated "troll hunting" powers) I wasn't on MIRT, so it wasn't my problem, I didn't give a shit.
I suspect they're back here now, under a new name-- I have no idea, and again I'm not personally on MIRT so it's not my problem. However, people who ARE on MIRT have a responsibility to deal with repeat disruptors (as have been deemed by admin) because that's a big part of the job.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)We have to own our words, over time, and be held accountable for even the stupid or asinine stuff we say; and even someone like me, a "people person" says stupid or asinine stuff from time to time.
So why should some people be allowed to pretend to be 10 people at the same time, or be allowed to check in and out of the place under a series of new names like its a revolving door? They shouldn't. It makes a mockery of the idea that we're having actual discussions with actual consistent identities.
If that's not to be the case, fuck it, let everyone change their damn name every time they post, and don't bother to ban ANYONE.
seaglass
(8,185 posts)state. That's not the way it is though. And I wasn't saying you were inconsistent. The rules/decisions are inconsistent.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts) 
Violet_Crumble
(36,387 posts)Skinner gave an amnesty to people who'd been tombstoned at DU2 and said that if they returned and caused no trouble, they'd be fine.
seaglass
(8,185 posts)believe Skinner's statement was made in a host forum and maybe the person who quoted it in GD left that part out.
If you have a link to it I'd be interested in seeing it as it makes no sense to me and I'd like to see the reasoning behind it.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)In one of the threads about spiralhawk. He made no mention of it being for DU2 or DU3, but spiralhawk was ppred from DU3 and rejoined not long after that.
seaglass
(8,185 posts) pintobean
(18,101 posts) winter is coming
(11,785 posts)that have been posted since the start of February, and that it's not in any way typical of MIRT. You'd also see that EarlG locked that thread, and that MIRT let the subject die until HBS posted his thread in GD. Apparently, MIRT isn't as dedicated to backbiting gossip as some would believe.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)SoP meaningless.
Ohio Joe
(21,898 posts)Under the right circumstances, anyone can be under MIRT's purview... In addition, being on MIRT does not mean you give up your right to speak your mind.
That said... I get the idea you feel a MIRT member is abusing their position... Please, shine the light on it... What is this about?
seaglass
(8,185 posts)Ohio Joe
(21,898 posts)In my six months on MIRT, there were a number of threads started on people not considered MIRT's primary responsibility and I do not recall any of them being locked... And without any word from EarlG, I don't know why this one was locked.... I would only be able make an assumption and I don't think I want to do that. We do know he wanted the discussion to end but not why.
People in the MIRT Group speak plainly and openly about who they think is/is not a troll and why, it is what they are there to do. Will's comments were very trollish and I support uppityperson starting a thread on it and do not see it as any kind of abuse... Apparently, neither do the Admins since they have not removed uppityperson from MIRT.
I also support Hassin Bin Sober's posting of the thread in public... I have no problem with transparency.
The fact is, no member is off limits for MIRT to discuss and more often then not, I would have preferred to see more MIRT member give their opinions, not less. Giving an opinion while on MIRT, no matter what that opinion, is absolutely NOT an abuse of power. It's what the job is and it is what makes the job hard.
seaglass
(8,185 posts)I don't agree that because something has been done before that means it's OK.
I never felt that when I was on MIRT that it was appropriate for me to start a thread on who I thought was a troll and why. I don't recall that anyone did. We banned a lot of trolls for making statements milder than many long term DUers. MIRT could have a field day if that was their role. Nor did I feel that it was appropriate to gossip about existing DUers that did not legitimately come to MIRTs attention -even those that were being referred to admins.
So we all think differently. I think MIRT members and Hosts should be even more circumspect than DUers in general about comments they make about other DUers because they are in forums where the majority of members don't have access.
Ohio Joe
(21,898 posts)Talking about who may or may not be a troll is not gossip when you are in MIRT. Especially when the post being talked about would definitely have resulted in a pizza if the member had under 100 posts. Not gossip in any way but what they are there to do.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Because right now I see a pattern of people making up rules for this site that don't, actually, exist, and then acting as if they're written in stone.
seaglass
(8,185 posts)have posted this in the wrong place.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Like I said- Skinner is well aware of what goes down in MIRT, and he writes the rules for that team and really puts up with very little bs around the whole thing, in my experience.
And MIRT does a fine job, also in my experience. AND 99.9999% of what MIRT actually does, as opposed to the imaginary noise from people who've never served on the team, is continually play goalie with the worst repeat socks and zombies and trolls (although blissfully the system has gotten much better at automatically cleaning up spam, that actually used to be most of the job right there) ...
So if you think something about DU "needs to go", like I said, maybe you should bring it up in ATA, get admin to write a rule or issue some sort of statement.
seaglass
(8,185 posts)Not suggesting any new rules.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)patently false.
It's also worth noting that MIRT doesn't have the power to ban long-time people, no matter what they talk about. I have seen a few instances where MIRT members were unable to leave their grudges or agendas outside the MIRT door, where they came in fully expecting that being on MIRT would give them the power to finally get rid of some group they had some personal pet peeve with....
didn't quite work out for them that way, herp derp, and of course admin does not look kindly on that crap.
but again, most of what MIRT does is clean up after these sort of disgruntled zombies and repeat trolls try to sneak back in with their multiple identities, that's really a lot of the job.
steve2470
(37,481 posts)MIRT is NOT the place to pursue your vendetta against poster XYZ. You WILL get called out and kicked off.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)I was on the original MIRT and I remember a now banned member took it upon himself to ban someone (a longish term member) without one word to anyone.
Skinner re-instated the member and promptly kicked that person off MIRT & eventually off DU.
I think the bigger point being missed here is Skinner/admin is aware of EVERYTHING that goes on/is said in MIRT, and they will not hesitate to tell you to knock it off.
You absolutely cannot do MIRT if you have an agenda---it doesn't work.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)I would also say that 98% of the people I worked with on MIRT, maybe 3 terms or 4 terms total-- were completely able to do this. And these were people I had had all sorts of disagreements with outside MIRT, people who disagreed with each other outside MIRT, people from opposing "teams" on all kinds of issues, etc.
The other 2% proved incapable of leaving agendas and vendettas outside MIRT, but they were the distinct minority. That sort of thing was the worst on my last term on MIRT (perhaps, oddly enough, the institution of better automated features left the door open for more mischief, but I would venture to say it was more about the particular personalities involved) and directly contributed to my not really feeling like signing up again.
seaglass
(8,185 posts)I specifically said:
I never felt that when I was on MIRT that it was appropriate for me to start a thread on who I thought was a troll and why. I don't recall that anyone did. We banned a lot of trolls for making statements milder than many long term DUers. MIRT could have a field day if that was their role.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Check this out!
Nika
(546 posts)I felt a twinge of vertigo and very sweaty palms watching that. The narrator said there is no quick way down in the case of lightning; I beg to differ.
Interesting video, and not a job for me.
greyl
(23,024 posts)
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)A perennial member of MIRT was an active participant on a racist and anti-DU hate site founded and run by a multiple-ban DU'er, and took part not just in the racism but also in attacks and insults on DU'ers, Democrats, and the left in general.
Unfortunately said site seems to have been tanked. But i always wonder about the standards on MIRT with trash like that constantly clogging it up.
Renew Deal
(85,262 posts)Most of us have no idea what this new MIRT controversy is about
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)The banned member was poster DrDon / jessie04 though, so if you like you can go look up some of that drek and guess at the quality of the place 
I had no idea there was a MIRT controversy, myself. I'm not a real "meta" poster.
Mosby
(19,491 posts)And if you remember drdon posting here then what does that make you scoot?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)And it makes me someone who looked up the dude's posts on DU after seeing 'em in action elsewhere. He posted under the same name on both sites - i'm sure you remember, you were there.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)I'm just curious (and I don't know the person or the hate-filled site you're referring to).
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)or regularly enough to give the impression, at least.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)I was on the first two terms, then off for one, then "on 2/off 1" ever since.
Do you think that's a problem? I suppose that the Admins wouldn't allow it if they thought it were.
(Btw, nobody can serve more than 2 consecutive terms).
On edit: I'm surprised I don't know the person or site you mentioned in your previous post, since I've been on MIRT a lot more than I've been off. Are you sure about what you posted?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)it's an individual case
Puglover
(16,380 posts)At some point I began to believe that it was vitally important to take a break from the mod forum and be out on the regular board.
I think I took a 3 month break after about a year of modding and it really helped my perspective.
So I suggested a mandatory 3 month break once a year. At the least.
Let's just say it didn't go over well.
Violet_Crumble
(36,387 posts)I must be coz I keep on bumping into you in MIRT all the time in between our plotting to nuke anyone who's ever disagreed with us. Though that moment where you interrupted my thread where I was plotting to get rid of the rest of MIRT was a bit awkward! 
I know the person and the site being talked about. The site's long gone and it's kind of the same as if people were to bring up way back when I posted at Progressive Independent. Some things are in the dim past and should remain there. fwiw, this current MIRT team is a good one, and I work well with the person being mentioned and consider them one of the friends I've made from working on MIRT. Considering our history, if we can get past the dim past, others should be able to as well.
Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #197)
Mosby This message was self-deleted by its author.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)Then you have to take a term off.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)tammywammy
(26,582 posts)But I don't have the free time to be a good supporting member, or I'd do it again.
sheshe2
(97,843 posts)Justin and to all the MIRT members.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)own and does so hidden from view, I think they are rewarded in the way they sought when taking the job, by having a safe haven for vicious attacks on good DUers. Who knows what they say about me. I have a right to know.
All that bullshit about 'transparency' is bullshit. You are helping sell bullshit used to protect backbiting.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Heidi
(58,846 posts)Otherwise, you're preventing the community from evolving to its fullest progressive potential. You do want this community to evolve to its fullest progressive potential, I'm sure! And I'm sure you agree with the admins' often stated assertion that DU discussions should be about ideas rather than people/personalities. No system is infallible, however noble the intent.
steve2470
(37,481 posts)I never had any concerns about them. Never. Not once. If you serve also, you will validate my perception, I'm sure. MIRT can do nothing whatsoever about long-time DU'ers. It has to refer the concern to Admin, and usually there is no referral. MIRT operates by consensus and people who have an agenda to ban someone would stick out like a sore thumb.
Heidi
(58,846 posts)with twice the grief. And, with all due respect, MIRT members apparently can attempt to do something about about longtime DUers whose posts have been juried and left to stand. Using the MIRT forum to draw attention to a longtime DUer whose OP has been juried and left to stand is abuse of MIRT privilege, in my view. Moreover, it flies in the face of the admins' often-stated admonition that we should discuss ideas rather than people/personalities, and it gives the impression of impropriety.
muriel_volestrangler
(106,343 posts)There's no way someone who wasn't a long term DUer would have been allowed to get away with it. The MIRT thread was discussing the particular post, not Pitt as a person, or his personality.
uppityperson
(116,022 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)I reject the safe haven for backbiting, it is revolting and it will always attract gossips and cowards.
You know they say shit there that would be juried, but there are no juries there. You think that is fine. I think it is part of what is making DU suck.
steve2470
(37,481 posts)Thanks for your frankness, sincerely.
Call Me Wesley
(38,187 posts)who served a few years on various forums like GD, V/M, LBN, Politics, etc.? MIRT doesn't really apply to be anything near this.
Or do you think that if you haven't served on MIRT you should not talk about it? Were you a mod once? See how awkward that question really sounds?
I couldn't think of one occasion we would have posted a 'Thank you mods for all you do' thread in any of the forums after such a serious overstep of power that happened here. We would have been eviscerated, both by DU members and DU admins.
steve2470
(37,481 posts)Of course you should talk about it. I think actually serving on MIRT gives you more information, that was my entire point. FWIW, I am a host right now of CHaS.
Bottom line is, to me, if you do not trust Skinner and Elad....DU is not the right place. They have final say on everything.
Call Me Wesley
(38,187 posts)but I hope you didn't assume that I don't trust Skinner or EarlG (Elad does the programming but is not this thickly involved in keeping up with the SOP, CS, TMS, etc.)
Instead I think some MIRT members didn't trust the guidelines they were given and tried to overwrite them by overstepping their purpose.
I fully support Hassin Bin Sober's action. There's no confidentiality agreement you have to sign as a MIRT volunteer; and while the forum is hidden for non-members, it doesn't mean it's private. If MIRT members now make an uproar about privacy issues - they shared these first with 40 other anonymous DU members, who, I don't think, they all know personally.
I dunno. I think the rules are quite clear for MIRT. And this was overstepping these rules based on personal bias.
steve2470
(37,481 posts)I don't know all the facts. Obviously there is a problem...of some kind. I was lucky enough to never have to witness such a mess. I think we agree with each other.
Call Me Wesley
(38,187 posts)Puglover
(16,380 posts)Can you even imagine? You or I myself posting a Thanks Mods thread 2 or 3 years ago??
Talk about an ugly way to commit DUicide.
Call Me Wesley
(38,187 posts)Would have been hilarious. This navel-gazing gives me vertigo. But we're not MIRT, we probably don't know sh.t.
Puglover
(16,380 posts)used to do what mirt does in our SPARE time. And yeah we always operated on consensus.
And as with MIRT if someone did not there was hell to pay.
steve2470
(37,481 posts)MIRT or a Host group is not the place to be if you hate another DUer. It will become obvious pretty fast.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Heidi
(58,846 posts)As a host, you are a DU leader. Please give some thought to the views of the wider DU community and ideals of what DU can be if it is guided by principles.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I am sorry but mirt is a small group of people that work hard to remove trolls. People's description of mirt in this thread is way off base.
Heidi
(58,846 posts)It's about an exteajudicial MIRT discussion attempting to bring admins' attention to a longtime DUer's OP that was juried and left to stand. How any fair-minded MIRT member could defend such a discussion is beyond me.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)A pm could have been done. Even a post saying they are discussing you in mirt would have been better than what was done.
Heidi
(58,846 posts)No one in MIRT was betrayed, for heaven's sake, except by their own sense of security while participating in a extrajudicial discussion of a longtime DUer's OP that a jury allowed to stand. Wow.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)If I was in mirt I would hsve said he is not a malicious intruder and above my pay grade.
Mistakes are made but on balance mirt does a hell of a lot of good compared to this moment. The mirter who released it had better options. I wonder if he will release skinners response to him that was posted in mirt. That would be transparency.
Heidi
(58,846 posts)instead of referencing it in a passive aggressive way in a thinly veiled attack on the MIRT whistleblower. Just an idea. But I understand if you prefer that someone else do it, since you've already posted in this thread.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Heidi
(58,846 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Heidi
(58,846 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Skinner told me he addressed it in mirt.
Puglover
(16,380 posts)you were a mod extraordinaire darling. You can slice through bullshit with the best of them.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)I note you refuse to address the points raised. You defend backbiting gossip. I favor transparency.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts) Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)You know MIRT gossips about long term DUers. We all know that. It is a safe haven for backbiters to avoid the jury. Those who abuse it should be ppr'd but they are not.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)If not how do you know this?
Sorry but your description of mirt is wrong.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)They use the MIRT space to discuss others, then go to GD and make OPs about the others, then come back to MIRT to compare notes. It's all over DU.
I'd not be a part of such a group. They abuse the trust, and that's just not how I want to be. We have juries. They did not like what the jury said, so they plotted in a hidden space dedicated to other work, to which they have access for other reasons. It is not right.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)
arthritisR_US
(7,812 posts)I think their work falls in the category of a needed service and thankless job. I don't envy them and wish on them wisdom.
steve2470
(37,481 posts)I can assure you, no matter what anyone says about you (a long time DU'er), absolutely nothing can happen without Admin approval. Nothing. I promise you. Nothing can happen to me without Admin approval. I rest easy knowing that. Can they badmouth me ? Sure. I'm not worried about it. Only Skinner can suspend me or ban me.
MIRT is too damn busy with the troll invasions to go looking for trouble. Trouble comes to its doors in tidal waves.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Transparency was the cry on DU3. There should not be a place beyond juries where some can say the things you admit are said. The power act upon the gossip is not the point, the gossip itself if the point, carried on in a protected sanctum devoted to work that is not about long time DUers. They just backbite because they know they are safe to do so. That's why they join, many of them, and that's what's wrong with DU.
What was said about Will shows they have plenty of time and desire to look for trouble outside their purview.
The admins need to stop saying 'transparency' while allowing safe gossip havens. Abuse of such a forum or group should be ppr time.
What I saw was really ugly and makes me consider not using DU any longer. Knowing they rush to the MIRT space to dish all of us is disturbing, takes the fun out of an entertainment site.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)That is an ugly thought.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)and considering the clique behavior, I have to wonder how many non mirt folks were being kept on constant update about the pitt matter via phone and email
to have them here, crying about their lost privacy smacks of toddlers upset at being caught doing what daddy said don't do
uppityperson
(116,022 posts)see it for yourself. Watch Announcements forum for the sign up announcement, should be mid-April.
William769
(59,147 posts)
steve2470
(37,481 posts)Last edited Fri Mar 21, 2014, 04:10 PM - Edit history (1)
If you are really concerned about MIRT, you really need to serve a term. It's not an evil bunch plotting against DU'ers. Honest. I'm NOT on MIRT now, but I did serve a term.
They have to talk about trolls plainly. If you wish to call that gossiping, that's your right. However, the trolls don't give a shit about this place. That's why there is a MIRT team, to delete them.
As for long-time DU'ers, the super controversial posts (unanimous hides) are voted on. No one can lead a crusade to get anyone banned. Consensus is always sought. Worst case scenario, your post gets referred to Skinner and/or Elad. I never saw a long term DUer get disciplined. Never.
Hrmjustin is one of the very finest DU'ers, and I had equal high regards for the other MIRTers I served with. They ALL care about this place. It's a volunteer job. A thankless job.
At any rate...
eta: The entire WillPitt MIRT mess needs to go to Skinner. I am not addressing that. Thank you.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Abuse of MIRT space is harming DU. Talking about long term posters is not their job, and that IS gossip. You admitted they do it to me.
steve2470
(37,481 posts)If it happened, I never saw it. I was saying it is theoretically possible. It can happen to me. I'm not worried about it. I guess we agree to disagree, Blue, with all due respect intended.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)carry on vendettas. I don't know if we disagree, I am taking your word for what goes on there. I don't have equal access to the facts, so how can I argue with you, who does?
That's the whole problem. Why was MIRT rallying against Will Pitt, jury left his post, he is a long term member. And they were making OPs then running to MIRT space to dish, why should they be allowed to do both things? Post in public then coordinate in protected back rooms?
It makes me uncomfortable. This is supposed to be entertaining and elucidating, not a clique war gone mad.
steve2470
(37,481 posts)I don't know all the facts. All I can honestly say is, nothing like that ever transpired when I was there. We were very careful with long term people.
Heidi
(58,846 posts)whose OP was juried and left to stand? No one is complaining about MIRT discussions of low post count trolls. The objection is to a MIRT thread to bring admins' attention to a Will Pitt thread that was juried and left to stand. Admins see all community standards alerts and jury decisions; there was no need for MIRT discussion. The MIRT discussion referenced in previous GD threads today seems to me to be abuse of MIRT's privilege to have "private" discussions about longtime DUers--discussions that cannot be challenged by the general DU population. You're really defending that? Maybe I'm naive, but that does surprise me.
1- The MIRT mess about WillPitt needs to be addressed by Skinner. That's the best thing I can say about that.
2- The design of MIRT, from what I saw, worked well. Skinner also has to address that. I understand the concerns. I'm not sure how well MIRT would work if it was totally transparent. Maybe the site needs to go back to the old ways, or hire people ? I have no idea. I'm not sure a computer could do this work, maybe it can.
Heidi
(58,846 posts)But if this could happen to him for vehemently (and profanely, for sure) criticizing the POTUS and having his post left to stand by a jury, any longtime DUer could be unnecessarily brought up for MIRT discussion. For me, it's about a principle.
boston bean
(36,943 posts)many times regurgitations from one member, I don't know who, they don't tell who sent the email, saying so and so is a troll and they signed up previously as such and such... And a thread in MIRT is created without a hidden post.
Most of the time it is in relation to feminists who are new to the board.
Now there are two trolls who make repeated logins, and they need to be dealt with. I have no problem discussing those without a hidden post. But one particular member sending emails about feminists when there is no alert, no hiddens, no problems, taking and email starting a thread, and then sending them up for admin review and bang the drums for banning is wrong, if you ask me.
I'm not going to post the threads, but I think it's safe to give a run down of what happens in there sometimes.
Heidi
(58,846 posts)I wonder what happened to discussion of ideas/principles rather than personalities? We used to hear a lot about that. I guess, like handwritten thank-you notes, it's a relic of the past. 
boston bean
(36,943 posts)emails about feminists and automatically a thread in MIRT is started, no hidden, no nothing.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)and more often than not they're from ex-MIRT'ers...more often than not it's right on target. The person is a disruptor.
I started one thread from a pm that I received--since I know that's the one you're talking about--I asked for an IP check. When you and one other person took exception with the thread I deleted it. Nothing more came from it.
Some DU'ers know certain trolls better than others and will tip us off. Sometimes it's a sock that looks like an older member. Since MIRT started other DU'ers have done this it's a help.
People have asked in GD where to pm a member of the MIRT about a suspected troll. We've never been told by Skinner that it was unacceptable or not to do it.
If you're going to give the run down make sure to include ALL the information; not just what's important to you.
Here:
There are a few - not many - but a few relatively clever trolls - Those who are clever enough to stay just enough within the rule book to avoid getting their posts hidden by a jury - yet show a pattern of pushing rightwing points. And I do not mean those who disagree with me on the NSA, drones or Palestine - but people who I think you would probably suspect of being trolls if someone were to take a serious look at them. Other than the jury system - is there a way to report such characters to either MIRT or Admin for proper consideration?
Skinner's reply:
1. You can send an email to admin.
Or send a DU Mail to a member of MIRT.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12594482
A simple search will show he's said it more than once. We're not doing anything wrong when we post pm's. There are measures in place to make sure no one can bring an agenda into MIRT.
opiate69
(10,129 posts)There is at least one recurring troll who comes in, posts almost exclusively on feminist issues, has bragged about being a repeat infiltrator on her off-site blog, and is at best only a level or two beneath LG on the persistence scale.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)but you're right.
Excellent point.
boston bean
(36,943 posts)know that I had no issue with you, nor did my posting imply that. You took it quite personally and I'm sorry for that, but my postings were about a single person (I don't know who, no one ever says who sent them an email) emailing MIRT members the basic same message over and over again, regarding new feminist posters who signed on to DU.
The emails contained nothing but innuendo, and no evidence, and they are constantly being sent from what very likely appears to be the same person. You can tell by the emails. Some with over a hundred posts that have done nothing wrong, whatsoever.
In fact, one had to be re-instated by Earl. But many many are targeted in this fashion.
I see an issue with that specifically. Not with you, or with you posting an email from a DUer.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)I didn't mean to put words in your mouth.
You're right EarlG did re-instate one, but there have been others that have been banned. Some repeatedly.
As Opiate69 noted there's at least one that continually signs up and is re-banned with the message 'previously banned or previously banned troll' something like that.
I honestly don't know if it's the same person sending them I've only gotten one pm with respect to someone that associates themselves with HoF.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)how often is mirt hearing from us?
one_voice
(20,043 posts)many people (sexist trolls) have been re-banned--one in particular--based on pm's/tips.
I don't know how to answer 'how often is mirt hearing from us'...I assume you mean HoF that's a large 'us'. There are many people that have posted there so I'm sure we've heard from someone associated with HoF (regular).
The person that pm'd me has a good relationship with HoF--in that they've posted there many many times and appears to get along with everyone. I've seen them out in GD and such.
I've been on MIRT 5 or 6 (pretty sure it's 6) terms, and I can say without a doubt Skinner isn't going to ban anyone unless he has a good reason. More often than not people are given the benefit of the doubt.
That's been my experience.
boston bean
(36,943 posts)one_voice
(20,043 posts)with everything that's been said I think it would put them in an uncomfortable situation.
Suffice it to say, in my 6 terms of MIRT, I've received ONE pm that was about someone that associated themselves with HoF. It was sent by someone, that has what I'd describe as a good relationship with HoF.
I'm not even sure it was ever sent to Skinner for an IP check. I honestly don't remember. I shut the thread down when it seemed you & I think one other person were uncomfortable with it.
What I will say again, is Skinner/admin isn't gonna ban just anyone based on a pm someone gets. I also believe if they thought a group was being targeted via MIRT they'd let us know and put a stop to it.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)It's not unusual for MIRT to get PMs from other DUers saying they think X is a zombie of Y. After discussing it for a bit, we usually bump these up to the admins to check the IP address. We're not banging the drums for banning someone based on whether or not they're a feminist: those people get banned for being zombies.
boston bean
(36,943 posts)winter is coming
(11,785 posts)gives the impression that you feel feminists are being unfairly accused for personal reasons. The admins aren't going to ban someone with "no alert, no hiddens, no problems" unless that person is a sock or a zombie, so that doesn't really make sense.
boston bean
(36,943 posts)who send emails to MIRT members about feminists he wants MIRT'd and checked out by admin, with absolutely NO evidence or reason for MIRT to be discussing. No hiddens, no problems, no nothing to be discussed except this same regurgitated email, with accusation and NO proof. A discussion would not have taken place if not for those recurring emails. There is something wrong with that. And to me it feels like a manipulation. LG and DTG different stories.
That is my impression. take from it what you will.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)what system we have, someone will try to game it. That doesn't mean they're successful at it. Being discussed in MIRT isn't a death sentence, nor is being sent up to the admins for an IP check.
boston bean
(36,943 posts)I just don't think it's a good idea to be looking at newer members who have no hidden posts and are not disrupting.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)If you define it as actually banning someone who's actually done nothing and is not a sock/zombie, I don't believe it.
boston bean
(36,943 posts)So there is some automatic credence given to the email.
Secondly, I have witnessed in my term bannings when there was no IP match and no hidden posts, no disruption.
Also, it seems this person is fixated on feminists. You don't see a problem with that. ok. I do.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)I would expect that sort of banning would be overturned by the admins on review. If it hasn't, you should take it up with them. If you feel someone on MIRT is poisoning the well, you should also take that up with the admins.
What I do remember is that I although I often see you posting out in the public areas of DU, I rarely see you in MIRT unless the thread has something to do with feminists. Perhaps you feel that feminists are being unfairly targeted because that's what you primarily focus on yourself.
boston bean
(36,943 posts)activity in MIRT?
I have been a fine member. No complaints as far as I can tell.
Try sticking to the topic. And argue your points, instead of trying to cloud the real issue by disparaging me personally.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)As such, it would be possible to get the impression that feminists are being repeatedly targeted when in fact we receive PMs about all sorts of suspected DUers. You're asking me to believe that multiple unspecified DUers have been unjustly banned by MIRT and the admins have done nothing about it. That seems pretty unlikely to me. It's far more likely that you feel those DUers had "done nothing", but the admins and other MIRTers disagreed.
MIRT works by consensus. Even if every other MIRTer supported a ban, if you considered it improper, you'd be well within your rights to alert to admin and ask for reconsideration/reinstatement and I'd support such an alert.
boston bean
(36,943 posts)not with any particular MIRT member nor what they write. But with a specific person targeting feminists in this manner with zero evidence, being an ex MIRT member, who is focused on women who join DU and are feminists.
I think there is something hinky with that, and I think my fellow MIRT members ought to take that into consideration as well.
I have stated the truth. Like it or not.
PS, I don't focus on any one thing in MIRT. I participate when I can. Most of the time the banning has already occurred before I even read the thread. Many times, I am working. Glad to know you are keeping track of something and coming to conclusion that are false. But continue on if you must and try to make it seem like I got a hair up my ass. When in fact I don't. I am pointing to a truth.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)you don't know that. The person that pm'd--is NOT someone that would have a HoF issue or feminist issue--and yes I can say that without a doubt.
HoF does at times attract trolls could be the person that pm'd doesn't want an unsavory person associated with HoF. It very well might have been done for the good of HoF.
Everything isn't always as black and white as it may appear.
boston bean
(36,943 posts)My hope is that other members will to.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)showing us where you believe bad PPRs have occurred? Seeing several examples all together would probably convince MIRT that we have a problem that needs to be addressed.
boston bean
(36,943 posts)winter is coming
(11,785 posts)a little effort to try to document and address the situation?
boston bean
(36,943 posts)You know as well as I do what emails I am talking about. You know the type of threads.
Yet you keep trying to make it seem like I'm not stating the truth, or disparage me personally. Get some new tactics.
Violet_Crumble
(36,387 posts)All I'm aware of is someone sent a PM to a MIRTer not long ago about a suspected zombie. There's nothing wrong with doing that, nor is there anything wrong with the MIRTer taking it to MIRT to see if it's worth kicking upstairs. I've done it before myself, though I don't get many PMs from DUers about zombies. And when I've posted them, I don't pass on the name of the person who PM'd me unless they asked for me to do it, and that's because we're supposed to focus on the possible zombie, not on the DUer who contacted us about it.
boston bean
(36,943 posts)What I have stated here is the truth and those who are on MIRT know it to be true.
The issue is with a person spamming MIRT with the same basic message about posters who identify as feminists.
I think there is something really hinky about that. YMMV of course.
Violet_Crumble
(36,387 posts)Which is why I think it'd be worth raising it in MIRT. And I'm not calling you a liar. It's just that MIRT moves so fast many times I don't read everything in there, so I do miss things. All I've seen is the one thread, which I thought was legit to be discussed in MIRT as there are one or two serial zombies who do focus on feminist issues. I've never seen any long-term DUer brought up by PM as a possible zombie, though. I've also not seen any spamming by one person. And because I've been on for a few terms, I do remember that times when we've been alerted to the possible reappearance of the serial trolls, sure enough it has turned out to be them.
I'm uncomfortable with demands to know *who* sends a PM with a suspicion of a zombie, because our focus should be on the possible zombie, not on the DUer who's alerted us to it. It does no harm at all to ask for an IP check and if the DUer was right, they get nuked, and if they're not, they don't and life goes on. DUers should feel comfortable to PM any of us with concerns and know they'll be taken seriously by MIRT and looked into. I just feel like this whole sub thread could give some meeker and milder DUers the impression that if they contact us, they'll be judged rather than whichever possible troll/zombie they're letting us know about. Unless a DUer who contacts me makes it clear that they want their name mentioned, I won't say who it is.
Okay dumb question. Hinky is a cute word that I'm not familiar with. Does it mean dodgy? It's being used in the same way so I'm suspecting yes...
boston bean
(36,943 posts)accusing feminists new to the board of being sera bellum, feldspar, by what seems to be from the same person, they are written so similar.. Where there has been no hidden post, no disruption and NO real PROOF? Just an email of innuendo? I've seen plenty of them.
Violet_Crumble
(36,387 posts)As I've said, all I saw was a recent thread that imo was legit and fell well within the bounds of what MIRT is supposed to do. What others have there been? The only others I can recall seeing are two that did turn out to be the serial troll/s and were nuked by admin.
Also, MIRT gets PMs from DUers regularly about suspected zombies. Many of them don't have hidden posts and of course there's no real proof but just suspicion as no-one but the admin have the tools to prove it. And when it comes to disruption, one person's disruptor is another persons holder of the righteous torch of truth, so that's a really subjective thing, imo...
pintobean
(18,101 posts)but I suspect that the links in post #80 may hold some clues.
The accusation against me in that post is false. I've never been privy to any MIRT info. Sometimes even an idiot can spot the obvious.
Violet_Crumble
(36,387 posts)Don't make me send an anonymous PM to MIRT about you! (only joking)
Yeah, that was a weird post. There was nothing MIRT related in anything you posted, and DU groups don't have the same unwritten rule of privacy seeing as how they're public groups and all..
pintobean
(18,101 posts)that may shed a little more light on the subject.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/125534232
It seems there is a repeat troll that they really like.
Violet_Crumble
(36,387 posts)It does shed some light
boston bean
(36,943 posts)the MIRTer who brought the anonymous email deleted their thread thinking they were getting a third degree.
Surely, you can understand why I would not want to start a new thread on the topic. I'm not going to get into with people who refuse to even acknowledge that there may be a problem. And as you can see in this thread, I got a mirt member trying to disparage me personally. So, no thanks, I'm not starting a thread in there.
I've made my point. If the person emails again and the email is posted anonymously in MIRT, I will respond again.
uppityperson
(116,022 posts)we function well. You see things that I do not see, I see things that you do not see. To me something may be obvious while another person may not see it, and vice versa.
We each have different viewpoints, experiences, interests. This does not mean anyone thinks you are not stating the truth but instead asking you to share more of what you see so we can see it also and learn from you.
This is one of the things I and others have said they appreciate volunteering on MIRT, the interchanging of ideas, viewpoints, etc, from a wide variety of DUers. Most who volunteer for MIRT would appreciate your taking the time to put a couple examples together so we can understand what you are noticing.
Thank you for considering it, and for noticing a problem.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)I have no doubt that you sincerely believe this has happened, but I genuinely don't remember the sort of sketchy bans you're hinting at. Start a thread in MIRT, put them out there, and show us where we went wrong. It certainly wouldn't be the first time someone has missed an interpretation of a post that other MIRTers later picked up on. That's why having a team is useful. If this is an ongoing problem, leaving the rest of us in ignorance won't fix it.
boston bean
(36,943 posts)Hiding it away in MIRT is not helpful. If you think this conversation is complaining about MIRT, you haven't comprehended a single thing I have said.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)1) One or more DUers, not currently in MIRT, sending PMs containing unfounded accusations of zombie-dom, and
2) MIRT and/or the admins banning the subject of those PMs without proof.
If you want to discuss it out here, in hopes that the unnamed person you suspect will stop what they're doing, it's worth a shot and that would certainly need to be done in a public forum if they don't have access to MIRT. If you want to address problem 2, though, it makes more sense to do that within MIRT, because you'll need to link to specific examples of the problem you hope to fix and no one outside of MIRT would have access to the threads being discussed.
Even if the DUer you're currently concerned about stops sending messages to MIRT, it's possible that others will do the same in the future. The only safeguard against that would be to address the second problem as well as the first. Make your case, and the issue can be one of the things addressed in the updated How to Mirt thread.
boston bean
(36,943 posts)I don't have the time nor the gumption to go and have these conversation with persons in MIRT, who don't want to admit that we get emails from a particular poster doing this. It isn't worth the aggravation to me. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to start up a thread in MIRT regarding this, it will not end well.. Next time it happens, I'll be happy to pipe in.
PS, last time it happened I did respond in there, and the person who received the email deleted their post, saying they didn't like the third degree they were getting for posting it. When in fact, there was no third degree. So, hopefully you can see why I may not want to do this.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)that we get emails from a particular poster doing this". If that's the way you approached whoever received the email, it's no wonder they felt they were getting the third degree.
boston bean
(36,943 posts)I was quite polite and non accusatory. But the response to my bringing it up wasn't. But why in the world would you think it would be any different. If I were to bring it up again. The person took such umbrage.
See here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1244171487#post27
The conversation itself isn't going very well here in GD. Please excuse me for not wanting to wade into it further in a hidden forum.
The next time a MIRT member posts an email anonymously making these same regurgitated accusations, I will respond, once again.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)1. MIRTer #1 posts an OP about a PM he's received about DUer X. The suspicion is that X might be a well-known troll. He suggests an IP check and says he'll go off to look at posts.
2. There's a few posts confusing X with a different DUer, due to a brain fart. That's quickly cleared up.
3. Some MIRTers think X could be a sock/zombie; others don't. None of them object to an IP check, as it will do no harm to X if he/she isn't a zombie.
4. You wonder who keeps sending emails accusing DUers of being this troll, and say, "Seems a bit conspiratorial to me," which implies there's some sort of conspiracy and that the OP might be in on it. I don't think that's what you meant, but I can see how it could be read that way.
5. MIRTer #2 points out that they get PMs about possible zombies often, and this troll is someone who's known to return frequently. You respond by saying, no, I've seen similar emails before, and they seem to be from the same person. You believe that any new member who posts something feminist gets that type of attention. MIRTer #1 says this is the first one he's gotten, and you respond by saying that you've seen a similar message 3 or 4 times over the course of 1.5 MIRT terms.
8. MIRTer #3 says they've gotten PMs about this troll, although not on this occasion, and that the sender is someone they trust who is a good troll-hunter (i.e., not someone working an agenda). You ask who it is, and they say they have no idea who sent the DUmail being discussed here, but that only one person has ever sent PMs about this troll to them.
9. MIRTer #4 points out some internal evidence indicating that the post (since self-deleted, but MIRTer #4 remembers it as not being troll-worthy) that was mentioned in the DUmail is two weeks old; why would someone wait two weeks to express their concern?
10. MIRTer #1 responds by saying that the two week delay is on him, due to real life issues (that MIRT was aware of as it was happening). Five minutes after that response, he self-deletes the thread, saying he has no idea the thread would cause any problems, and that he really didn't like the third degree he'd gotten over that.
Looking at the order and timing of the posts, I'm not sure why you think the "third degree" remark refers solely or even primarily to the posts you made, two hours or more before the self-delete was done. It looks like it had a lot more to do with questions about the delay in timing.
And nowhere in any of that do I see someone advocating a ban based on the accusation that X is a zombie of a known troll. What is being advocated is an IP check, which is commonly done for suspected returnees of any of our frequent flyers. I'm not sure why you're so convinced that the person sending PMs about this troll is malicious, as opposed to merely being experienced at recognizing a troll who keeps returning to HOF.
boston bean
(36,943 posts)1) similar emails making the same accusation against new members who could be identified as feminist, with absolutely no PROOF, only innuendo. No hidden posts, no disruption, no nothing, getting discussed in MIRT based on a specious email, no one wants to tell who actually sent.
2) The emails are so similar they most certainly come from the same person.
You think that is a good function of MIRT? Discussing persons with no hiddens, no disruptions, based on eerily similar emails that appear to come from the same person.
I wasn't aware the MIRTer who posted the OP with the email in MIRT was a male.
Also, in fact if you read through this thread, you will see that person did take my inquiry the wrong way.
The fact that one other MIRT member has received PM's regarding this troll, makes my point, very clearly.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)Yes, it is a good function to consider the input of other DUers. Yes, it is worthwhile to consider that someone might be a returnee of a known frequent flyer. It is not uncommon for us to ask for an IP check in those cases, even if there are "no hiddens, no disruptions". That's not just for the particular troll suspected in this case; it's for all of our regulars.
It is not that unusual for a MIRTer to be well-versed in recognizing a particular troll, so I'm not sure why you find the idea that occasional tips are all coming from the same DUer to be so ominous. This isn't the only troll we get tips about, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of our other tips are also coming from a single ex-MIRTer or former mod who's good at recognizing a particular troll.
If we get a bad tip, well-meant or otherwise, and an IP check comes back with no match, that's the end of it unless and until there's actively trolly behavior.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)uppityperson
(116,022 posts)I will have to look through it more later, will keep my eyes open for similar.
boston bean
(36,943 posts)Violet_Crumble
(36,387 posts)To not want to admit something means that we know that something is happening and imo is an implication of dishonesty on our part. I've been clear in saying that MIRT gets busy and with me taking a break a while back, I haven't read everything in there and I'm just not seeing multiple PMs from one person, nor any cases where MIRT has nuked someone with no hides, no disruption, and whatever that other bit was. That's why I agreed with the suggestion to start a thread in MIRT about it.
boston bean
(36,943 posts)Are you stating that I am being untruthful?
Violet_Crumble
(36,387 posts)It was similar to many other PMs to MIRT about suspected zombies that I've seen before. Are the others the ones I'm thinking of, where a thread was started from a PM and sure enough it was the serial troll, who had no hides?
No, I'm not stating yr being untruthful. I've already said I don't read everything in MIRT and could have missed something. If I was going to accuse another MIRTer of dishonesty, I'd probably say something along the lines of 'but they don't want to admit it'
one_voice
(20,043 posts)If I thought a group I was part of was being targeted I would do what I could to stop it. This seems like a simple and logical solution.
One thread where we could keep track.
boston bean
(36,943 posts)one_voice
(20,043 posts)I remember you saying you thought HoF was being targeted but I don't remember you citing examples.
I must have missed that.
boston bean
(36,943 posts)Please stop saying I said that.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)sent to MIRT, accusing them of being a zombie. That could easily be interpreted as an accusation of targeting.
boston bean
(36,943 posts)You guys are really something.
I've made my point. I'm confident of that.
Take care.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)Given that, I have no idea why you think that whether or not you've explicitly mentioned HoF is significant.
boston bean
(36,943 posts)Feminists who post in HoF get extra attention from MIRT?
Come on now. I didn't say it. I said feminists.
But it is quite interesting you find it "significant".
Especially since out of the 9 posts provided in the email to MIRT that was posted there, only one was posted in HoF.
I don't know where you are coming up with how that is somehow "significant".
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)Please stop saying I said that.
as if that were somehow very offensive to you, you made it sound significant to you. To me, I don't see why "feminists who post in HoF get extra attention from MIRT" would be either better or worse than "feminists who post get extra attention in MIRT" but that implication apparently touched a nerve.
Response to winter is coming (Reply #320)
pintobean This message was self-deleted by its author.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)winter is coming
(11,785 posts)one_voice
(20,043 posts)you said 'someone that posts something feminist get's that attention'.
as well as:
Also, it seems this person is fixated on feminists]
post #218 in this thread.
Also wanted to point out up further where 'winter is coming' mistakenly called me a he---let me make it clear-I'm a woman--which I'm sure you knew. This isn't the first time we've interacted & it says I'm a woman right in my profile.
boston bean
(36,943 posts)I certainly meant nothing else. Just so we are clear.
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)
Wash. state Desk Jet
(3,426 posts)In this particular case for instance there guidelines and confidentiality in given discussions is more or less guided by the trust factor. Some mirt members believe a trust was violated .and it will appear the trust is more of less an unwritten rule of thumb because one mirt member believed a common trust involving the community as whole was violated. So he brought it the community as a matter of transparency.
It's problematic as was the posters post which was the topic of discussion.Some of the mirt team seemed to indicate a ban for the poster was in order. This caused a division of opinions .
And isn't there lots of that on DU and most anywhere else ?
Some members of the du community think a certain member should apologize to the community and the president for using foul and abusive language as a means to express anger and discomfort.The topic was health care and or the lack of .
I read that certain persons post and I must say the heading -that slander got me to thinking- he must be wanting to be jettisoned right out of the community post haste.
But than I read what he was on about and when I read into it I saw he was not just stark raving angry, he was deeply hurt and scared for his wife. Know what a panic attack is ?
Sure I had to look at his number of posts over the years. And than I thought, sometimes the GD is like one big happy support group and this is a member who is calling out in distress.This is SOS. Message received.
I guess that's my way of reading into things and I think I read it right.I think so because of the tremendous care and concern replies that came along as the thread progressed.And of course some of the members were shocked to his thread with that top line .The words were as rough as it gets, kind of like a shock wave.
But to those who were shocked and even outraged, can you imagine that ongoing -just keeps on coming like the eveready battery bunny ?
Because that is how it is a panic attack takes hold as I understand it.
And it's a good thing there are members in this community that understand it. that's a real good thing.
Sometimes there are certain exceptions to the rule, and everybody isn't going to like it.
But it is the way it is.
If that certain poster wants to address the community about it, he will when he's ready, and if not, that's ok too.
Now there issues with mirt- so it escalated ,but it can be fixed. And thats politics,
Du'er's through care and concern made something very good happen. Through all controversy the dispute and the outrage the good outweighs the bad.
It can be fixed.And the community will continue to grow and evolve.
uppityperson
(116,022 posts)Seeing what goes on in the MIRT forum, participating in what they do is a very good thing for everyone to do. Not knowing and having only partial and perhaps inaccurate or biased information can help promote fear and misunderstandings which make DU suck more.
Watch the Announcements forum for the sign up notice, should be up around mid-April. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1013
Sign up and try a term. It is very enlightening and also very nice to join in the camaraderie and congeniality found among those working to help keep DU disruptor free.
Thank you all who have volunteered for MIRT, sign up and try a term for those who have not.
Call Me Wesley
(38,187 posts)Not once I would have accused members who weren't mods as 'biased' or having 'inaccurate informations.' During the mod system, they simply had no information, and we mods were usually the bad guys; which you had to live with and it seems this thick skin is a bit lacking on fragile MIRT members.
You had to trust us to do the job we were given. Hosts nowadays have far much leeway to perform. We were on tight leashes, the rules were strict. There was no transparency, no discussion outside.
DU3 overruled this old, very tight set of a few who could operate in such an environment. That was a great call. That was a needed call. The mod system was becoming obsolete. And vastly so.
This was the premise of DU3: Transparency, democracy.
It saddens me to see that DU3 is going back to be 'modded,' instead of 'hosted.' And that includes the obvious 'secrecy' you try to keep your precious forum in, happily sharing private stuff with 40 other anonymous DU members who just happen to serve on the same term. If you were good with them, why the outrage sharing it with some others?
You brought in an alert that you were unsatisfied with into MIRT, which shouldn't have happened. MIRT is not for overruling a jury. MIRT is not for bullying admins into looking at posters behaviour after they passed a jury just because you thought it wasn't justified enough.
MIRT handles low-post-count trolls. You squeeze bugs and keep them out. That's your job. Nothing more.
I really don't think that what Hassin Bin Sober has done is 'spreading misunderstandings which make DU suck more.' It was, on the contrary, necessary.
Overstepping your job, calling all DU members who haven't been on MIRT and therefore know 'nothing,' about it: THAT makes DU suck.
You're not the police.
uppityperson
(116,022 posts)dealing with partial information. If you wish Admin to make the MIRT forum open for all to see and get a fuller view without volunteering, I suggest you deal directly with them. But for now? Unless you have served on MIRT, have had full access, you have only partial information.
There will be a sign up Mid-April, watch the Announcements forum. I hope you volunteer for a shift on MIRT.
Call Me Wesley
(38,187 posts)Making the MIRT forum open would create a sheer mess. However, transparency is good and note that the forum is not secret.
I guess we're talking in different directions here. And no, I do not have to sign up with MIRT. And if I deal with 'partial' information, then it's even worse. Enlighten me.
uppityperson
(116,022 posts)information posted in there that is not accessible to everyone not on mirt. You have only partial information because you are not currently on mirt and can not read the forum. You do not want it open, yet you seem to be asking to see everything in there. Are you asking me to copy/paste the whole forum, everything written, all the instructions, everything?
What I am meaning is because you are not on MIRT, you are unable to read everything in the forum, hence have partial information. I did not call "all DU members who haven't been on MIRT and therefore know 'nothing,' about it" but unless you can read the forum, you can not read the forum and volunteering for MIRT would allow you that.
Seeing what goes on in the MIRT forum, participating in what they do is a very good thing for everyone to do. I recommend every DUer volunteer for a term on MIRT. Not ever having had access to the forum and having only partial and perhaps inaccurate or biased information can help promote fear and misunderstandings.
Sissyk
(12,665 posts)Last term, I decided "Oh, why not" since I knew I'd have time through the winter to dedicate some time to MIRT. So I put my name in the pot.
I still don't know why I was picked. I thought surely with my low post count compared to all the others I wouldn't make it. Maybe there were not enough volunteers?
Anyway, I went into it very cautious partly due to (again) low post count compared to the majority, not "knowing" anyone on the board, not being a part of a clique or group. I took the suggestions from returning members seriously and followed up on them. Read Know Your Troll threads, read How to Mirt threads, read Skinner's pinned thread, and read a few pages of what's gone on here over the past few days.
So, the first week I was not a bunch of help. I did my homework though and read through all I was given and started making connections between the multiple bans that had taken place over the past few days and what I read.
I was ready to jump in. I took it slow. A few WSC! lol! or Will Support Consensus. A few I think this should be sent to admin. And, finally I felt secure enough to actually say "Nuke" as the first reply in a thread and so did all the following post. Easy Peasy!! lol!!
Howeverr, the most amazing thing to me was how every single member in MIRT (save for a couple sign ups that I never saw) were friendly, understanding, cooperation, and giving of their knowledge. So many of them go out of their way when on MIRT to maintain data bases on Trolls like you wouldn't believe. It is unreal the work they put into this. Not a single one of them ever pointed out the difference in our post counts, or talked down to me because of it.
When this term is over, I will leave having made new friends, getting to know more members, and knowing I helped keep the trolls away from DU for six months. Would I do it again? You betcha! And, you should too if you haven't.
It really brings the community closer together 99% of the time. Who could ask for anything more?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts) Sissyk
(12,665 posts) TBF
(36,856 posts)is that even if you serve a couple terms (as I did at the beginning of DU3) and then take a long break (as I also did) - there is institutional knowledge passed along that comes back to you but also a bunch of new stuff to learn. "Know your trolls" has to be updated quarterly. There are a couple of nasty trolls that show up almost daily (and sometimes many times daily) ... and they are not so difficult because they are there constantly. Learning all of the others who pop in from time to time is the part I find challenging.
I've enjoyed meeting all of the active members of MIRT that I've had the pleasure to know. And I stress the word "active". Sometimes criticism of the process comes, as one might expect, from people who participate the least in the process.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)to give this more exposure.
You're an excellent MIRT'er.
Cha
(319,494 posts)
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)Is self policing and cleansing (if you will).
Combined with the jury system are actionables I've never seen anywhere else.
But, their is a but. And like all people they are human. And that is a real thing.
This is not meant to criticize but to cause a little reflection.
Boom
TBF
(36,856 posts)your comment. People are human and are not going to be 100% all the time. I think most who volunteer on MIRT and as hosts do put in an effort and do the best they can. Often, they put in quite a lot of time and no one is paid for that.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)Cheers
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I've met some of them in real life, delightful to the last man or woman.
Not easy, and I'll admit that I don't keep up with the job but am glad to help when I can.
Great post and I thank you.
Rec.
Rhiannon12866
(256,710 posts)It's not an easy job and it's certainly time consuming, but without MIRT as our first line of defense, we'd be overrun with trolls, disruptors and spammers. Anyone who hasn't yet served has no idea how many troublemakers never make it past a first post. Here's to MIRT! 
Response to hrmjustin (Original post)
NuclearDem Message auto-removed
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts) hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)I figured if any type of thread needed it, it was one about MIRT.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I didn't expect this big a response to this thread.
uppityperson
(116,022 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)
I saw that recently in Skinner's jury poll thread. I was wondering how they did it. Now we know.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)that being said, i really want to say clearly, for the most part mirt works very hard to be professional and not bringing in the personal.
i just now read the little bit hussien posted in wills thread. i do not think any of the posters have anything to be embarrassed about. i do not think the thread was out there. i do not see why some are acting like it was so offensive or an attack toward will. further, i personally thought people in mirt came off pretty good and should be an assurance that issues are treated professionally, regardless how a person may feel about a poster, personally.
i have real battles with some on du. with some of those that had their posts copied and pasted.
i have also learned to being able to compartmentalize in a manner that allows that to take a backseat to the efforts these duers put out while serving on mirt. to value and appreciate what they are doing.
grasswire
(50,130 posts).....but I think that Nadin has the dubious honor of being attacked most on DU
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)The purpose of pointing out that I am on the receiving end is cause along with Pitt and Nadine... With my experience in mirt, I feel duers handle the responsibility professionally and we can feel good about that. And with my own experience of not being well liked by some, I do not think the conversation in mirt was something to be offended by or outraged by.
That was the purpose of my post.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Neither of those members have been flagged for review or had their posting privileges suspended for an exposed transparency page. You've done both multiple times.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)with my post...
oh wait. i do not care. not the point. which you are well aware of. you are just doing your poking.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)so anyone reading this can put your claim into perspective.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)then there was no point of you posting:
or
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)you are aware. and still you poke and jab to see if you can cause some problems.
mostly. i ignore you.
i am back to that
have a good sunday running around du to see what needs your poking at dying embers to see if you can get a blaze going.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)I toast and salute 
Warpy
(114,646 posts)and that means they're really on the ball here.
Good work!
Kingofalldems
(40,325 posts)to see the veteran MIRTers in action. They can spot a troll in seconds, especially our daily multi-time visitors.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)TBF
(36,856 posts)I hope you continue on in the next term!
Kurovski
(34,657 posts)Thank you!
Response to hrmjustin (Original post)
Post removed
RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)Last edited Wed Mar 26, 2014, 09:47 AM - Edit history (1)
For a variety of reasons.
Way to go, Justin!
ucrdem
(15,720 posts)Sometimes it's better not to know how the sausage is made I guess. Anyhow K'n'R!
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Thank you Mirt for the difficult job you do! [View all]
For those who have not had the pleasure 40 members of this site volunteer to remove disruptors from this site.
They put in long hours in mirt because they love DU.
I say thank you for all you do!