I Just Lost My Mind Listening to the Cluelessness of the First Lady in China

[Nanjing to Seoul]

Everyone, please understand I live in China. I work in China. I am married in China. This is where my life is. I am working to sell my screenplays in China to places like Huayi Brothers with my new agency, CAA in Beijing. I'm getting my PhD in Chinese history. I teach Geography and History at the AP, IGCSE and A-level. . .and I speak rather good Mandarin. So, I can say I know what I'm talking about.

So, my wife flips on her iPhone and plays a new broadcast of Michelle giving an interview. In it, she says "I look forward to seeing all the new education initiatives here in China that we could try to use in the United States. I look forward to seeing the schools." And I exploded! This woman is God damned clueless.

Let's begin:

1: Chinese classrooms:
LIE MICHELLE WILL BE SHOWN:
Knowing the Chinese Government and their desire for maximum face, they will parade her to the "best" schools, meaning the schools that the elite send their students. Classes of 20 - 25 students in classrooms so clean you can eat off the floor. All in their uniforms pressed and their desks spotless, ready to learn what their teacher is teaching them. All attentive, taking notes, especially on the day Michelle shows up. Just the perfect classes.

REALITY:
Chinese schools are terrible. Most are failing apart. Paint peeling, windows broken, rusty gates, dust that hasn't been cleaned since the Great Leap Forward and guards that are asleep most of the time. Classes are filthy, have between 60 - 65 students in each. . .most students, especially the boys, will be sound asleep, since social promotion is the norm. After all, holding a kid back hurts their self-esteem. What will their friends think? Some kids (no evidence, just urban legends that have more validity than fact) have even committed suicide for failing and the teacher was brought up on criminal charges for creating a condition where the suicide could occur.

2: Chinese curriculum:
LIE MICHELLE WILL BE SHOWN:
Knowing schools here, the teacher will be told the lesson to teach and the students will be given pre-made, intelligent sounding questions that will show how inquisitive and into-the-lesson they are. This will give the appearance of good teaching and a sound educational ideas.

REALITY:
Asking a Chinese student to do any work is almost impossible. Questions are answered with blank stares and a look of "God help me. The teacher is talking to me. What do I do?" If that fear doesn't cripple them, the loss of face for being wrong is even worse, because teachers and schools actively encourage bullying as a form of "toughening up their students." Students rarely ask questions, barely given answers and the most common is "teacher, I don't know."

3: Chinese classroom management:
LIE MICHELLE WILL BE SHOWN:
Knowing Chinese teachers, they will be screaming at their students the day before Obama arrives about how their behavior will be judged poorly on their school, their parents and their teacher. If they have any love for China and their families, they will do everything the teacher says. In class, the teacher will walk around the classroom and do things an American teacher will do. This is because the principal and headmaster will instruct the teacher as to the techniques Michelle Obama is used to seeing in her kids' schools so the teacher should emulate it.

REALITY:
It is a long standing philosophy at all Normal Universities in China for teachers to "just teach the ones that care." If the kid is asleep, don't wake the students up. If the kid fails a test, keep giving the same test until the student gets at least a 70 and then record that grade. Chinese teachers normally do not walk through the class while teaching. They teach at their lectern, using a PPT and speaking in a boring, monotone Ben Stein voice. These is no checking for comprehension or retention. There is no real assessment of knowledge gained, only an appearance of doing the job.

4: Chinese teaching:
LIE MICHELLE WILL BE SHOWN
Test scores. Test scores. Test scores. Chinese students test scores are so damn high it's amazing. American students are stupid because their test scores are low. See, we should do what the Chinese do.

REALITY
All the schools are these days are test preparation centers. From first bell to last bell, they are only taught what is on the test, over and over, day in and day out. They are taught the test. Here in China, it's called "Gaokao." So, all the kids get is the answers to questions on past tests. All they learn is "if the question asks this, the answer is this." Ask a student how they got that answer or what the answer means and prepare for the blankest of blank stares or a reply of "Teacher, why does that matter? I got the answer right." Chinese students are amazing test takers and pitiful students. And the system has made that possible.

All in all, she will get nothing but bullcrap and it will be passed off as reality.

Maybe instead of going to Beijing, Xi'an and Chengdu, she should go to Yinchuan, Pingdingshan, Danyang or some other crap-hole city unannounced to see actual conditions. Then compare it to the states.

But since Michelle has NEVER been a teacher, what the hell does she know about a classroom in the first place?

Rant off, but education policy is my #1 issue. And this president, his wife and my party have thrown teachers under the bus just as much as Bush and Reagan did. Race to the Top is nothing more than a rebranding of "A Nation At Risk."

And using the Chinese education system as a model for improvement is nonsense. Come to Suzhou, Michelle. Sit down with a few of the teachers at my school. I dare you. I don't expect it. It doesn't fit the preconceived narrative.

[Schema Thing]

1. Is there a Chinese word for "politics"?

[Nanjing to Seoul]

12. mian zi

面子 - it means "face" and it's all about playing politics.

[Bonobo]

26. In Japanese, that is "Mentsu" and it means face here too so I guess you are being ironic.

In the sense that politics is about "saving face".

I take your point.

[Art_from_Ark]

68. I had to look "mentsu" up

Apparently the Japanese word comes from Chinese 面子, although it's written in katakana in my dictionary. Interesting that the characters 面子 in Japanese mean a children's game called "menko".

[kardonb]

64. politics 2013

the First Lady is being polite , as any guest should be ! Would you rather have her say " I know your schools are rotten , and most everything I see and hear is for show , and rehearsed ?

[davidpdx]

113. Absolutely

She was invited and is expected to be polite. I doubt she is naive enough to believe everything she sees.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

2. She's not there to take over China. She's there as a goodwill ambassador. :)

Also, I don't think she's delusional and ignorant, nor is her husband. They know that when a dignitary visits a foreign country they don't get shown the crap, but the glossed-over best of the lot.

[MADem]

6. +1 nt

[MindMover]

41. Exactly, this is not some bollywood celebrity tour ... this is the first lady ...

cmon people, grab a dose of reality and know the cause and effect ....

[treestar]

80. +1

and a lot of people live in China - I hate when DUers try to pull rank on us all - I live there so I know all about it and there's no way you get to disagree with my use of that for Obama bashing (and for the FLOTUS, not even the POTUS!)

[Sarah Ibarruri]

109. Yup. Even if the OP had said, "Oops! she won't be able to take ideas home, 'cause schools here...

kinda suck" it might've come across somewhat better. The way it was phrased, it came across like, "OMG you've got to be kidding me! The First Lady came here planning to implement China's educational ideas in the U.S.????"

Truth is, the First Lady only went to implement pure ambassadorship and good will.

[cordelia]

112. +1

[JNelson6563]

88. My thougts exactly.

While understand the OP's frustration regarding the education system, it's rather disingenuous to assert Michelle doesn't understand she will be shown a well rehearsed scene.

Julie

[Sarah Ibarruri]

108. Maybe he forgot that politicians visiting countries get shown the creme de la creme of that country

We all want to impress visitors, and all the more so if they're leaders of another country. We want them to say a good word about us.

Also, Michelle Obama is, on her own right, a very wise, very brilliant, intelligent woman. She was using etiquette and being complimentary.

Love Michelle!

[davidpdx]

115. Well put

[JI7]

3. i think she was just being nice

[Tx4obama]

4. Well, she could NOT say 'I look forward to seeing your shitty schools, take me to the worst ones!'

It is called DIPLOMACY.

[steve2470]

10. precisely

Even if she did, they would not comply.

[KittyWampus]

38. Why not? That's what a certain crowd on DU expects! Bernie Sander's wife would do just that!

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. I think you just described my country of origin

Where there is a revolt since they are trying hard to change that reality.

Do teachers get their jobs due to who they know and "buy" the position as well?

[Nanjing to Seoul]

13. jobs are gotten by interview. promotions by party membership or "who you know and blow."

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. Not limited to China

Replace party for the union (in this case it is not a good thing). And you just described the Mexican educational system. Where or when they went bad is a good question. But it is the last thrifty years.

The down side, is the damn test once again. The reforms involve the damn teaching to test.

But you have teachers fighting technology and a second language, never mind both are in the federal curriculum.

I wonder if development status has a tad to do with it? As well as some level of distrust?

And thanks for the answer. It would make for a fascinating comparative study in educational policy.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

16. Classrooms are without internet because schools are afraid the students will learn something not

pre-approved.

It isn't the teachers that fight technology. . .it's the administration.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. In Mexico it's both in rural areas.

Why I said a comparative study would be fascinating.

[DebJ]

7. Sounds like an American classroom.... n/t

[spin]

137. I was thinking the same thing. (n/t)

[villager]

8. There's a CAA office in Beijing?

Okay, not to hijack the thread, but I also cover the economics/politics of working life in "Hollywood" -- which is more of a concept now than an actual place (at least if you're talking about where the jobs are).

If there's a CAA office there now, that tells me a lot about where the owners are looking for film biz futures.

And it ain't in the literal "Hollywood." At least, not outside the marketability of the "idea" of it.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

9. Yes. . .there is. But it really doesn't talk to the office in LA that much. Go to their website

[cui bono]

32. Films are getting financing from China and then they have to be shown to the Chinese

govt for approval.

[pnwmom]

11. This is diplomatic-ese, not English. Don't worry about it. n/t

[frazzled]

15. Wow, another misplaced anger post

Direct your anger at the Chinese government if you wish (I doubt that's even merited). Michelle Obama is doing nothing wrong.

[frazzled]

27. Oh, and now you insult me?

No wonder you see blank stares on your students' faces. Yup, just another stupid mei guo ren here, having no idea about anything.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

31. I am not even going to dignify that crap with a response.

I'll just quote what my wife said "告诉那个王八蛋 去死。 他不知道你"

[frazzled]

44. I invite DUers to put this through Google Translate

It says ""Tell that son of a bitch to die and he does not know you."

I can't quite comprehend that a DU Jury would allow such vile threats to remain, but let it be known that the OP posts such things. You should have seen the post he self-removed.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

47. You had to use Google translate for that can you called me a clueless mei guo ren

Wow. Talk about who the clueless 美国人 is.

[frazzled]

49. Hello? You were the one who called me a clueless Westerner.

You posted something about testing that had nothing to do (that I could see) with my original response, and then said I was a clueless westerner. I was sarcastically agreeing with you when I said, Yes, just another clueless mei guo ren. It was YOUR insult, and I clearly identified that I felt insulted in the header. So try reading more closely.

And yes, I do need Google Translate. I knew the term mei guo ren because I audited a couple Chinese language courses forty years ago when I was a graduate student. I remembered the word for American (though precious little else).

You should know that even those who don't speak Chinese can easily get a fair translation on the Internet these days. It was pretty shocking to read the "fucking asshole" stuff you wisely self-deleted.

As a fellow Jew, I'm shocked you would use such language. I'm also shocked it wasn't removed.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

50. You are. You don't live here! I DO!!!!

You have no idea what you are talking about. Sit down, be quiet and learn!

BTW, don't you ever insult my teaching or my classroom unless you have first hand knowledge.

[VanillaRhapsody]

56. Wow...you sound just like the teachers you claim to despise with this tripe...

[SunsetDreams]

74. and you do not live here..

You live in China.

And this president, his wife and my party have thrown teachers under the bus just as much as Bush and Reagan did. Race to the Top is nothing more than a rebranding of "A Nation At Risk."

I don't understand that statement or your claim that the first lady is "clueless". She was given a tour, and if YOUR government made YOUR schools out to be something that they are not...sounds like maybe the anger should be directed at YOUR government for projecting something that was not true. I'm not sure at all how that blame can be laid at the First Lady's feet.

[Dorian Gray]

83. This is how

you win over people to your ideas?

I lived in and taught in hong kong for years. I'm not upholding my experience as anything more than what it was. A unique experience. Every school is different. You're slamming the entire Chinese educational system.

[Sheepshank]

103. You are w-a-y out of line

I don't think I like your way of "discussing". Here, we Westerners rarely take things at face value, will ask for info and clarification and make our opposing thoughts known. You pretend at discussion, and then grossly insult (google is our friend) tell people to shut up and only listen? not sure why you bothered posting on a discussion forum.

[Ikonoklast]

129. You are promoting a fallacy as the basis for your argument.

Argument From Authority.


You assume no one else knows anything about China, have ever been there, worked there, or taught there, and are the expert.


Authorities are many times wrong in their opinions even in areas of their expertise.

[Cha]

58. Yeah, not everyone speaks Chinese but she had the interest to put it through

a Google translation. And, all you have are insults because someone is debating you. Great debate style .. write ugly insults in Chinese.

[Bonobo]

65. I remember when I was arrogant enough to think

that my fluency in Japanese made me better than other people and I showed it off, like you, at every opportunity.

I grew up.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

51. I think he's just angry and unhappy nt

[Number23]

55. He's just "upset," frazzled. You know how it is with some when they're angry

This whole damn thread is a trainwreck. And over nothing.

For the record, I know I should be surprised that a jury didn't hide those threats against you but for some reason....

[Ptah]

46. Google translate says:

"告诉那个王八蛋 去死。 他不知道你"

Tell that son of a bitch die. He does not know you.

[Zorra]

17. Aren't you afraid that the Chinese spooks are reading your posts, especially

since you are an American citizen teacher in China?

I was under the impression that the internet in China was heavily censored, and if so, do they allow you to post information explaining how rotten the Chinese educational system is, on a US website like DU?

I know nothing about the situation, just that I've always heard the Chinese spooks monitor everything and people critical of China risk serious punishment.

Chinese Ask Kerry to Help Tear Down a Firewall
FEB. 15, 2014
snip---
“Will you get together with the Chinese who aspire for freedom” and help “tear down this great firewall that blocks the Internet?” asked Zhang Jialong, a reporter for Tencent Finance, a division of China’s largest social media company.

Mr. Zhang, who was detained for three days in 2011 because of his posts about conflicts between the artist Ai Weiwei and the Chinese authorities, asked Mr. Kerry to look into reports that American companies had helped the Chinese government establish controls over what websites Chinese citizens could access.

Wang Keqin, an investigative reporter who American officials said had been forced to leave an economic publication because of his critical reporting, said the cause of Internet freedom was “going backward.”

Ma Xiaolin, a former correspondent with the official news agency Xinhua who is a co-founder of a blogging site, said websites had become the main sources of news and expressed hope that the Chinese government would ease its Internet controls if relations with the United States improved.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/16/world/asia/chinese-ask-kerry-to-help-tear-down-a-firewall.html?ref=internetcensorship&_r=0

[Nanjing to Seoul]

20. Not at all. They are more concerned with Weibo, Sinablog, 168 and RenRenWang

Than this.

And since I use a VPN. . .oh well.

The internet monitoring is rather overblown. The lousiness of the Chinese education system is well known. Even party members say it.

That's why they send the 富二代 kids to international schools and western universities.

Hell, my wife went to university here for four years, got her degree and doesn't know a damn thing about the subject she "studied."

[Zorra]

22. So China is not really anything like the dark, repressive communist dictatorship that Americans

have been taught that it is?

[Nanjing to Seoul]

23. Nope. . .and it took my moving here to learn it.

It's like the US. We treat our minorities like shit. . .they treat a few of theirs like shit.

Hell. . .my students in English class are reading "Animal Farm" and "1984."

[Zorra]

48. Thanks.

My Chinese Studies Prof, and Adviser, was Dr. Frank Kierman, a former member of the CIA, who apparently left mainland China (in a hurry) with Chiang Kai-Shek in 1949.

He was an interesting man.

(I knew that China was not "the totalitarian dictatorship of the dark lord", that was a joke

[Nanjing to Seoul]

52. Jiang Jie Shi was a military dictator. He was known as Generalissmo.

Mao was a Communist dictator. Both did the same crap. We just liked anti-communists.

CIA Spooks are bad sources of information.

[Zorra]

131. Correct on all six of the above. You get an A+, teach. nt

[Donald Ian Rankin]

87. Not the communist bit, I think.

Something I've heard from numerous Chinese friends is that Chinese communism is essentially just slogans nowadays.

And "dictatorship" is probably technically wrong - I think "Oligarchy" is closer.

The "dark, repressive" bit is less inaccurate, I fear.

[msongs]

21. her kids go to elite special xtra clean and well kept schools. she will relate nt

[JoePhilly]

24. they're also at a slightly higher risk of being kidnapped.

Meh, f**k them.

[cherokeeprogressive]

71. Have you ever heard of the "Secret Service"?

Do you think that if, God forbid, the Obama children went to public schools, it would be possible to walk into ANY gate without X number of physical searches, metal detectors, background checks, and jumping through psychological hoops?

Get real.

[Mister Ed]

82. Well, now, to be fair...

The families of JFK, RFK, George Wallace, and Ronald Reagan have also heard of the Secret Service.

If we're going to get real here, we have to acknowledge that security concerns, and not mere elitism, may be at least one factor in the Obamas' choice of a school for their daughters.

[former9thward]

132. Carter sent Amy to public school.

It seems the SS was able to handle it.

[Mister Ed]

133. Quite so.

Amy Carter was certainly never shot. That's the chief reason I didn't include her in my list of people who've been shot while under Secret Service protection.

Indeed, I was thinking of Amy Carter as I wrote my earlier reply, and wishing ruefully to myself that our present First Family faced as little hatred today as Jimmy Carter and his family did back then.

[Smarmie Doofus]

25. Point. n/t

[SidDithers]

110. Less...nt

Sid

[Liberal Veteran]

28. I hardly think she is as clueless as you do.

This woman attended Harvard and Princeton and is a lawyer by profession. I'm fairly certain she spent a number of years in a classroom in attaining her undergraduate and postgraduate degrees. So she might have some passing familiarity with a classroom.

I rather doubt she is as easily fooled as you might think.

[VanillaRhapsody]

59. She's certainly no George W Bush or Mitt Romney who WOULD fall for that crap

[GeorgeGist]

138. Harvard alums also.

[Le Taz Hot]

30. Jesus! It's called DIPLOMACY, Mr./Ms. PhD candidate.

Don't you think she KNOWS that? Look, I'm not an Obama fan but I have a great deal of respect for Michelle and she's not an idiot. She knows she's being given the dog-and-pony show treatment. She also knows you smile, nod, and don't piss off your hosts.

[cui bono]

34. +1

[Nanjing to Seoul]

36. When they use it as part of Race to the Bottom (I mean top) and require more standardized testing

I hope your words taste good. Next education reformer that uses the Chinese model as the example. . .I hope you eat your words.

And how do you know she knows? Honestly. . .do people on DU magically have access to her brain? It's her words. "I can't wait to see the education initiatives being implemented in schools. I hope we can use them in The States." Diplomacy or not, she just opened a door for more teacher bashing.

[Le Taz Hot]

40. What the hell does Race to the Bottom

have to do with Michelle's diplomatic mission to China? What part of "it's diplomacy" aren't you getting here?

If you're going to write a dissertation and defend it you might want to practice staying focused on the subject at hand. You're going to have to defend that dissertation in front of academics MUCH tougher than me. Is that how you plan on reacting under incredibly tough questioning? Irrational? Lashing out?

[DebJ]

102. Why don't you write a letter to Michelle about your first-hand experiences?

I would think that the first thing a progressive would do, when they see someone is missing
critical information, is to provide that information for them to assess. Most certainly your
first hand knowledge would be something Michelle would like to read about.

I taught for a brief while, and even teachers who struggled a great deal in the classroom had
some good ideas now and again that other teachers could apply.

Also, Michelle may already be apprised of what normal is, in a classroom. Do you think that
she can stand before the press and international community and bash China for that? Or
should she have said "Sure, buddy, I know you are going to give us a phoney performance?"
What DID you WANT her to say?

Finally, you began this thread with your assessment of what is going on inside Michelle's brain;
you 'magically' know she is clueless, right? So your comment appears to be self-directed.

[davidpdx]

116. I think writing her a letter is an excellent idea

If he has a major concern about the US using any of the Chinese methods, then he should provide Michelle Obama with the information to counter that.

I also highly doubt she is naive enough to believe that all classrooms are the same as the one she'll be shown. Of course China is going to take her to the best school.

[Takket]

33. Just curious, are you part of an organized religion?

And are you Chinese? Or are you an America who now lives in China?

[Nanjing to Seoul]

37. Chabad house member in Shanghai.

And I am American. My wife is a Chinese national from a small farming city called Lizhuang, outside of Zhenjiang in Jiangsu, near Nanjing.

[Takket]

42. ok thanks

To be honest a few of the phrases you used wouldn't have been used by a Chinese person so i was sort of questioning the legitimacy of that post, but it is legit!

To your point, like others have said, its Diplomacy. It is a game everyone has to play.

Well, everyone except Putin.

Most of our schools are in pretty sorry shape as well. Mostly due to intentional sabotage by republicans who want to make the education system look as bad as possible so they can disband it.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

53. Are you serious? There's a Chabad over there? Your wife converted. Talk about culture shock. nt

[PeteSelman]

35. Not for nothing but just what do you think she does?

She's there for photo ops and bullshit not for reality. What do you expect her to do? Trash China? Expose their flawed system? No way Holmes, it's politics.

[wickerwoman]

39. Yep,

the only thing you forgot is the endemic cheating.

All the top Chinese schools teach to an American model so it's a bit silly for an American to go there to learn what's so successful about Chinese schools.

I used to do curriculum design and visiting a number of schools to see how English was taught. Even in one of the better private schools, the method was "teacher stands at the front of the class and says a Chinese word. All of the students say the English word". Repeat for literally four hours.

It was not at all uncommon to meet people with university degrees and 14+ years of English study who couldn't answer questions like "How are you?" or "What do you do for a living?".

On the other hand, I met a lot of great students who really, really genuinely wanted to learn. I think the emphasis in Chinese culture on study, hard work and achievement is generally good although it's also very utilitarian ("I must work hard so I will get a good job and be successful" not "I'd like to learn this because it is intrinsically interesting or will enrich my life&quot .

[Nanjing to Seoul]

43. You mean the fraudulent transcripts and teachers being told that their gradebook doesn't matter

This influential party member thinks their little brat deserves and A. So we will put that on his transcripts.

And it's always boys. Girls work. . .boys are spoiled.

[phleshdef]

45. I seriously doubt Michelle Obama is clueless about any of that.

She is most certainly provided with a briefing of these things when she becomes involved in them. But she isn't there to be an activist.

[Number23]

54. "But since Michelle has NEVER been a teacher, what the hell does she know about a classroom"

What are you talking about? So according to you, even a mother of school aged children doesn't understand how a classroom works?

Rant off, but education policy is my #1 issue. And this president, his wife and my party have thrown teachers under the bus just as much as Bush and Reagan did. Race to the Top is nothing more than a rebranding of "A Nation At Risk."

And using the Chinese education system as a model for improvement is nonsense. Come to Suzhou, Michelle. Sit down with a few of the teachers at my school. I dare you. I don't expect it. It doesn't fit the preconceived narrative.

It seems as though you are the one building a "narrative." I didn't see anywhere she said or that you even acknowledge that she said that China was a model. She simply stated she was interested in seeing the educational initiatives there and maybe taking some back to the States. You seem to have run with everything else all by yourself.

[Liberal Veteran]

57. Not to mention spending many years in a classroom herself.

But you are correct. Michelle Obama's words were politely phrased neutral expressions implying nothing much whatsoever.

[Number23]

60. I think so too. This OP is strange and seems to be very angry for reasons I can't figure out

[dsc]

106. would you accept that logic in terms of say child medicine

or knowledge of the law? Would you say she is qualified to judge the quality of pediatricians due to having had her children in doctor's offices.

[Number23]

123. Ummm... don't YOU judge doctors by your experiences with them? Doesn't everyone?

I've stopped taking my daughters to doctors or stopped going to doctor's myself because of their manner which I've found disturbing/appalling etc. compared to other doctors. People do this every day of the week so I have no idea what point you're trying to make.

And besides the fact that it doesn't in any way appear that Michelle is "judging" anyone, this whole thread just seems like a happy exercise in pointless poop stirring.

[progressoid]

61. I don't think she's going to be fooled.

She's been around the political block a couple times.

[1monster]

62. It is the diplomatic equivalent "of course that outfit doesn't make your bum look fat!"

Or saying, "My! What an incredibly unique hat! I'm in awe," when in fact the hat is hideous.

It means nothing and nobody takes it seriously. It is simply sweet nothings and polite small talk.

Besides, I've always told my students that you can learn as much from a bad policy, teacher, experience, etc., as you can from the good ones... Just in the bad cases, you learn what not to do rather than what to do.

[YOHABLO]

63. She's just playing the game .. a lot of fluff and photo ops .. she's not suppose to be an activist.

[judesedit]

66. Sounds like YOU should be doing something...Michelle is going about it a different way. U live there

These are YOUR children. There are good things in some schools in China. Like the example in some schools where the children each take a role from leader to worker showing coordinated cooperation. Then they rotate so each child plays the role in each station. Real life practices. Stop trying to blame the Obamas for every fucking thing wrong in the universe! Thank you.

[DeSwiss]

67. Oh shit, you've done it now!!!!

- K&R

[mountain grammy]

69. It's sounds so eerily similar to America. Teaching the masses

just enough to count change, but not enough to understand what's happening and why. If the masses, the workers, are well educated, they just might question why corporations can pollute without consequence, and demand things like health care and worker safety. Like America in the 60's; a few assassinations nipped that in the bud!

[LuvNewcastle]

81. That's what it sounds like to me.

Either we're already following the Chinese model or they've been following ours. Of course, many of the same corporations that have influence here also have influence there, so we must be grooming the kind of workers these companies and our 'leaders' want. I'm just waiting for our government to start censoring the internet, too.

[Buddha2B]

70. We experience Chinese students here in Australian Universities

Like all good traitor economies, Australia is focussed on selling University education to foreign students (instead of, you know educating and employing it's own citizens).

So basically rich Chinese come to Australia and study along side our students.

And it's a disaster. Every one of those behaviours described above come out.

The worst is the insistence on Group assignments in many classes. Chinese students are notorious for doing very little work, expecting the other students to complete it for them.

P.S. Of course I'm not referring to Chinese Australians who have a Chinese background. I am lumping them in with 'Australians'.

[Douglas Carpenter]

72. International political culture and accepted protocol necessitates that the First Lady is supposed

to smooth feathers not ruffle them when going on international good will tours. This would be true if it was First Lady Jane O'Meara Driscoll Sanders or anyone else.

I have pulled no punches when it comes to criticizing the Obama Administration. But I am not going to criticize them for having a sense of social propriety that is required of all representatives of all heads of state when travelling on all international good will tours.

[Douglas Carpenter]

73. I wonder how it would go over in America if the French First Lady attacked American education

and suggested that American students were ignorant and lazy while visiting America on a goodwill tour

[SunsetDreams]

75. Nailed it nt

[Warpy]

76. She's been well prepared by the State Dept. wonks who have been shown the same lies.

I have never been to China but I've had everything from colleagues to PR jobs shepherding visitors around and my Mandarin sucks but was adequate when I was a nurse to ask where it hurt and understand the answer, although it shocked the shoes off the poor patient to hear it out of my Irish face.

I've heard the same thing you're reporting, that there are elite schools built for Party big shots and now used by their upper 1% but the rest of them are falling apart. As for the teacher rooted in place in the front of the room, that seems to be cultural, as is the learning based on rote and reinforced by drilling. Thinking isn't part of the curriculum since it won't be all that necessary in an obedient worker.

In other words, they're the same schools we have here, minus the rote memorization and drilling, although NCLB tried to move us in that direction. Even schools in the suburbs are starting to get a little shabby around the edges as funding is cut and/or misallocated by corrupt management.

Visiting dignitaries always get sunshine blown up their asses and I know the Chinese official visitors get to see the fancy prep schools and public schools in rich districts in Virginia rather than public schools in DC when they visit.

[Drunken Irishman]

77. lol

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

78. Do you really believe that what she said out front for all ears to hear and all eye to read

is what she thinks for real ? She extended a compliment which is the diplomatic way about it.
Protocol formalities. Those same formalities apply in business and in business language .

For example in business language- thank you very much as said could really mean fuck you very much but what is said is thank you very much formally spoken though subject to translation .Or it may be extended at face value however the transaction may not be fair market.Which means it meant fuck you very much.

But for real part of her function on this trip is good will ambassador ,but of course she is the wife of the president of The United States and all formalities apply.

Protocol-

[catbyte]

79. Why are you so mad at her? I live in Gerald Ford's home town & my Poli Sci class

(Small class of 6) hooked up with a group of his cronies on a tour of the Soviet Union in 1976. I spent the Bicentennial in Moscow, lol. Anyway, we were wined & dined like we were still in czarist Russia while we were with them, but after they went back to the USA, our standard of living declined dramatically. That's politics. So she should have just stayed home and shut up? Wow. I disagree with you on this one, sorry.

[JVS]

84. Her job is to go on the tours and be friendly, not fact-finding and criticism

[Skinner]

85. Attacking the first lady.

Classy.

Have you considered the possibility that Michelle Obama is completely aware of the fact that she is going to be shown a highly biased view of the Chinese education system? She is extremely smart and very accomplished in her own right. She's not "God damned clueless" and I think you do yourself a disservice when you call her that. I would suggest you self-delete, except I am aware that it is currently in vogue here on DU to hurl insults at the first family.

She's the first lady. It's not her job to start an international incident. It's her job to spread international goodwill.

[HipChick]

118. I wish I could rec this post +1000 times

[Rex]

121. The opposite of Ms. Obama you say? Anyone remember this guy?

Derp...duh...sputter...choke...I'm in China? Really?

[Johonny]

125. Pretty Much-do we send all the good will ambassadors to the USA to the worst parts of the US?

just to impress them.

There is glass half empty people and glass half full people and then people that only see the spot on the glass.

[steve2470]

128. nvm found the answer nt

[Brickbat]

86. How dare you move the curtain?

[sufrommich]

89. What is she supposed to do,point and laugh?

This kind of silly outrage is freeperish.

[randome]

90. So you think she can simply go wherever the hell she wants in China?

You think she should say, "Okay, now take me to the crappy schools." ?

I don't think political good will tours are usually conducted in that manner.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[SidDithers]

91. Well, OK...

Sid

[Puglover]

92. Well, aside from the

sort of weird attacks on Michelle Obama the facts part of your OP were interesting.

I do agree that her "mission" there was diplomacy.

I wish you could have written the OP without the attacks. I think it would have been a better discussion.

Oh and FYI I do not faint when someone attacks POTUS. However as I said above the digs at FLOTUS were just a tad weird.

Sorry you got locked out of your own thread. I do wish our "community standards" had even a tiny bit of consistency and the other attacks had been treated the same as yours.

[SidDithers]

93. Outrageous!!...

Sid

[Rex]

120. At least the first few words in the OP are true.

Mind loss...a terrible thing to happen right before posting on a public forum! I guess we just don't understand.

[Nine]

94. It's too bad...

You are in a position to be providing valuable perspectives about China. You have a much more close-up view of things than those of us in the US. You could have used Michelle's trip as a launching-off point to share some of the things you've seen and learned. Instead, you chose to take potshots at her when it is completely obvious to everyone else that she is following standard diplomatic practices. What a missed educational opportunity.

[Cha]

97. Exactly, Nine.. rage and "losing my mind" is more important than a teaching moment.

[Smarmie Doofus]

95. The outrage engendered by your OP hints at a deeper truth:

>>>"I look forward to seeing all the new education initiatives here in China that we could try to use in the United States. I look forward to seeing the schools.">>>>>

And that's that the Obama education philosophy ( if you can call it that) is pretty much that simple.

Everyone here knows it and to acknowledge it plainly is painful.


K and R

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

96. I think you lost your mind a long, long time ago...

What the hell do you THINK she's going to say?

"The Chinese are a bunch of rat-fucking liars and I look forward to exposing their hypocrisy?"

[bobduca]

98. unrec for a completely misdirected rant ( seemingly purpose-built to flame)

While the current administration's penchant for privatizing education is shameful and worthy of criticism, ranting about what is said politely by the First Lady at a diplomatic event misses the mark entirely. Moreover it looks petulant to appear to purposely conflate the responsibilities of the First Lady on a diplomatic mission and the Dept. of Education.

[Rex]

119. BOOM! You knocked that one out of the park!

[Democracyinkind]

99. Fail #1: Not understanding the workings and constraints of symbolic diplomacy.

Fail #2: Your condescending attitude that has long since become a hallmark of your posting habits.

Fail #3: Telling another DUer that you wish he should die.

Fail #4: Hiding behind your wife to promulgate Fail #3.

[betsuni]

100. I don't understand

What does "I am married in China" have to do with anything?

[tarheelsunc]

104. It's the "appeal to authority" fallacy. eom

[BeyondGeography]

101. Nothing fails so routinely as condescending to the Obamas

They're not infallible, but on the infallibility/clueless line they skew a lot further to the left than their critics.

[Sheepshank]

105. The outrage seems disporportionate to the severity and reality of Michelle's crime.

Something is completely off on the OP. I understand the frustration they are trying to portray, but it seems incredibly misdirected.

[randr]

107. Thank you for your insight

It is important for the world to understand the structure of Chinese society. What strikes me is that you are all struggling with basically the same issues as the American educational system is dealing with. Add to your problems the capitalization and privatization of the system and you have our situation.
We all need to remember that Michelle's visit is not to expose your system to the world or even try to understand it. It is political theater meant for our collective audiences.
Michelle has no authority to affect any problems she learns of nor the power to expose them.

[fascisthunter]

111. Well, I Think She isn't "Clueless", but I do appreciate Your Insight

I think her statements were basically what she wanted some folks here and there to hear.

[Iggo]

114. Aw.

[davidpdx]

117. My good friend

We've never met, but we have of course talked on DU many times. I respect your opinion. Having lived in China for an academic year I also became disillusioned with their system. For those that don't know, I have taught and lived in Korea for 10 years, but one of those years I went over to China.

First of all she is a guest of a foreign country and the wife of the president. She pretty much has to follow the schedule that is given to her by the Chinese Government. That is just protocol and not her fault. Second, I very much doubt she is naive enough to believe that the school she is shown is like all the others. Michelle Obama is a very smart woman. Third, I'm sure the ordinary Chinese people are angry because they think Michelle Obama believes what she is being told and it is of course on the state run news. The sad fact is she doesn't have much of a say in what she is being shown and has to be polite (if she wasn't the Chinese people would be pissed).

Someone else in the thread made a suggestion about writing a letter to her with your concerns. I think that is an excellent suggestion. Explain to her what you see as a teacher in China and the problems they face. If there is another educational system that you think would be a better model for the US then make a case for her to visit that country.

I have to tell you one thing a bit off topic. Now that I'm back teaching in Korea I have a greater distrust toward students after teaching in China. The students in the Chinese universities would pull so much shit and there is very little you could do about it. The cheating was one of the worst parts. I just gave a test at the university I teach at here in Korea and not only had two versions, I spread them out a good distance. So even the short time I was there affected me a bit as well.

[Hekate]

122. FLOTUS is a goodwill ambassador, there to see the sights, smile, and spread, y'know, good will

It's what a First Lady does, since she doesn't have a paying job and isn't allowed to have one while hubby is in office. Calm down. She's making nice with the diplomatic conversation.

She's not going to come home, wave a magic wand, and remake the US school system -- which is so goddamned resistant to change no one can even agree on the necessity of a core curriculum or what should go into history and science text books.

However -- there are some 200,000 Chinese students now in US universities and colleges. Think about it.

[mfcorey1]

124. WE ARE UNDER ATTACK FROM THE RIGHT!!!!!!!

[Douglas Carpenter]

127. you really could have written an excellent and truthful essay about the public schools in China

without attacking the First Lady for being on a goodwill tour and thus doing and saying what representatives of nations always do and say when they are on goodwill tours speaking on behalf of their head of state.

I'm sure you have a lot of interesting and factual things to say about the education system in China. I have posted a lot more things criticizing the Obama Administration than I have posted things defending it. But I am not going to attack that nice lady for doing what propriety mandates and would still mandate no matter who was in office.

[WillyT]

130. It's The Way Of The World...

PR + Press Coverage, Minus Truth, Equals Our Current Bullshit...

[geardaddy]

134. I taught English at a normal school in Beijing 30 years ago.

The students there were always asking, "Is this going to be on the test?" I know exactly what you mean.

You ever read this book? http://yalepress.yale.edu/yupbooks/book.asp?isbn=9780300026399

I read it in college for a Qing Dynasty history course. It's for the Civil Service exams, but the education system isn't that much different that today's it sounds like.

Although, you can hardly fault FLOTUS. She's not really in a position to do anything but rely on her Chinese gov't handlers.

[greatlaurel]

135. Thanks for the insights

It is appalling the attacks on public education from the Obama administration. Teachers are a core constituent of the Democratic party. The assistance by the Obama administration in destroying public education is going to come back and bite the Democratic party in a big way.

Michele Obama is responsible for the stuff she says, as an educated and intelligent person. Stating that the US needs to copy the Chinese methods of education is just wrong. She could say other diplomatic things that do not attack our public education system at home.

Thanks for the post!

[FSogol]

136. Unrec.

[Puzzledtraveller]

139. Rec

For OP speaking their mind, and who may know the realities in China.