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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe Evil of the Outdoor Cat
ONCE upon a time I had a cat named Lucky, and the name fit. She turned up on our doorstep as a stray and stayed with us for 10 years, until her rather gruesome demise. (More about that later.) I liked her because she was a free spirit, and a survivor, going out for two, three, even five days, in all seasons. She’d show up when it suited her, waiting in the dark before dawn till I came downstairs and turned on my desk lamp. Then she’d make her presence known by rising up on her hind legs and gently scratching with her forepaws on my window.
Sometimes, without stopping to say hello, she’d leave us tattered offerings, with little starbursts of coagulated blood, on the front walk. The birds were disturbing, the moles and deer mice not so much. Jane, the older woman who lived two doors down, mentioned that Lucky sometimes lurked near her bird feeder, but she didn’t seem to think much of it, and neither did we. We put a bell on Lucky, but it didn’t last a week before she shed it in some bush.
If all this sounds lackadaisical, particularly in someone who writes about wildlife, I should note that Lucky, who died in 2008, was our last outdoor cat.
We were about to become early adopters in the trend that is beginning to make outdoor cats as socially unacceptable as smoking cigarettes in the office, or leaving dog droppings on the sidewalk.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/22/opinion/sunday/the-evil-of-the-outdoor-cat.html?ref=opinion
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LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)in apartments. Even if I lived in a house, I wouldn't let them out to do what's "natural." They live much longer if they're kept indoors.
Warpy
(114,615 posts)me was a squirrel who was almost as big as she was. I guess she was damned proud of herself because it was so unusual. The cat next door used to fly from roof to roof chasing them without ever catching one.
When I moved out here to NM, I saw an enormous hawk taking a hungry interest in her so I brought her in and that was that. No more outdoors for her. I set up a window seat where she could chirrup at the passing birds and the transition seemed fairly easy for her. My cats since then have been indoor kitties when they came to live with me.
My back yard is the flophouse for all the neighbor cats and that's OK. I'm just not going to let mine out. Finding one in pieces would do me in.
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)It's driving us all crazy, and I feel a cat that can't go outside is miserable. 2 males and 1 female and one of the males starts acting like a bully so he can get thrown outside. It used to work, but no more. I may put up a 6 foot chain link fence in the back so at least they have that, or try and find them a home where they can go outside. They have been raised outside ALL their lives. No exercise, no laying outside in the dirt and sun. The other male who gets bullied, is now scratching at the front window to go out. 
adirondacker
(2,921 posts)They were built out of 2x lumber and chicken wire with the opening attached to the window frame. If I owned a cat it would probably be the route I'd take since I enjoy the birds and critters immensely.
curlyred
(1,879 posts)It's just not safe in your average suburban neighborhood between the cars and the occasional malicious human. We sit on the patio after work, they explore the backyard, have some catnip and roll in the dirt. Lay on the rocks in the sun. Chatter at the birds, watch the blue jays.
I used to have outdoor cats, but they don't live long. Our oldest cat lost his tail years ago in some type of accident, and that was that for the unsupervised outdoor life.
adirondacker
(2,921 posts)The woods around here is teaming with wildlife that is both conducive to kitty destruction (birds and rodents) and extremely dangerous
(coyote, fisher, hawks, and owls). I'm not in the position to take on caring for a pet since my occupation is requiring extensive travel, but if I did, I would highly consider your method.
Are_grits_groceries
(17,139 posts)cats don't hold a candle to the damage done by pesticides and other poisons. That's what has decimated the bird population and other groups for decades. In addition, many of these substances remain around to keep damaging the Earth.
While some people are having fits about outdoor cats, the real culprits go by them with nary a sound protest.
If anybody studies this period of natural history eons from now, they won't conclude that cats were responsible for massive and irreparable damage.
alittlelark
(19,139 posts)
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)Habitat loss is the biggest threat to birds and other wildlife. Focusing solely on domestic cats is ignoring the elephant in the room.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)Has had the most dramatic effect on wild birds. Their habitat and diet requires wild grasses and other vegetation. We let 2 acres of fescue go back to wild grasses and now have at least 10 varieties of birds not here before.
Earth_First
(14,910 posts)We are returning a large portion of our lawn in the rear of our property back to a 'grassland' area by not mowing it more than twice a year.
Along the hedgerow we are putting up bluebird boxes this season (placed this winter).
Additionally, I cast nearly 25# of native wildflower seed among the area in an effort to increase the aesthetics and foraging opportunities for the native wildlife populations.
This spring I plan on placing a few stone piles among the area to offer habitat to reptiles and amphibians.
It's all in an effort to help cut down on our impact and rehabilitate (to our best ability) the ecosystem in our own little niche.
It's not going to save the world, however every bit helps of everyone were to do the same.
Unfortunately we live in a boarder community of a suburban/rural area where some residents practice lawn intensive yard work. So we may have some pushback. We'll cross that bridge when we get there...
Just wait till they see what I want to do with the front yard!
DebJ
(7,699 posts)that my suburban neighborhood was so teeming with wildlife. I sat outdoors on the patio all the time as long as weather
would permit, enthralled by huge flocks of cardinals (and that other bird that goes with them, forget the name), and hummingbirds and all sorts of birds. I couldn't keep my two feeders full. There were squirrels, and hoards of chipmunks, bunnies always out in the evenings. A skunk, a groundhog. All kinds of wild things. I was ecstatic. On my patio, living that experience, I felt like I was a part of the world, a part of the wider universe. I felt alive.
Three years into living here, 2-3 cats started stalking the neighborhood.
The first to go were the bunnies, and the chipmunks.
My yard is now pretty much sterile of wildlife. And no one has changed anything else in this equation. This neighborhood has been here, just the same as it is today, for 60 years. Except now, it is only populated by humans, cats, and the groundhogs have managed to survive. And, I saw a fox or two.
I can't think about it very long, for it makes me cry. My home is so severely less enjoyable now, words can't describe it. I feel as cut off from the universe as if I were living in a city apartment.
On edit: and I LOVE cats. I've had several. I've been pining to get another one, but haven't because of a fear of vet bills, and because if my husband ends up on home dialysis in the future, the cat dander can damage or destroy the dialysis process.
Thanks for this article!
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)That's really curious to me because my xFIL was on home dialysis (first peritoneal then hemodialysis) and they had a cat. And my xMIL isn't one to go crazy about the cat hair floating around. I don't ever remember her mentioning it was an issue. xFIL goes to the hospital now as the home stuff wasn't working well for him.
BTW, I agree with cats chasing away the wildlife. The town I live in has a cat bylaw. I'm in a newer area, so not much for trees and birds here, but my parents live in an established neighborhood. Growing up, there were a lot of cats and no birds at all. Then the cat bylaw came into effect and they were very strict with enforcement for quite a few years. It didn't take long for all kinds of birds to show up. Squirrels too. And more bunnies than ever before despite a ton of foxes (lol, shit is that the plural of fox? or is it just fox? brain fart). I really enjoyed my parents' backyard and deck with the trees and the birds. Then they stopped enforcing the cat bylaw and within a couple of years, 4 neighbors had their cats running around. My parents have a dog that does his business in a little raised wooden box filled with sand in the backyard. They had to start covering it because the cats would come and dig in it every night. I lived there for a few months with my kids and we couldn't keep our sandbox uncovered for more than a few hours. All the birds were gone by then. The squirrels haven't been around much though i do see one every now and again. Bunnies still come around but most of them here are bigger than the cats. But still, I miss the birds. My dad's bird feeder sits full for weeks on end now. Very sad. I'm very against cats being allowed to run around the neighborhood and destroy other people's yards. We had a cat for a few years (my ex's) and it was always indoors only. Never had a problem with him wanting to go out, even though he would watch the dog go out.
ETA because I read downthread about the whole mice thing - during the years we didn't have a cat bylaw, we had the most insane mouse infestation I've ever heard of...we lived next to a field and the farmer had left the rows of straw in the field and you could kick over some straw and there would be 2-3 nests of baby mice every square foot. It was unreal. I was a kid then and we had mice everywhere...in our yard, in the park, on the roads. Our dog killed a few but the cats running around didn't even make a dent. We had quite a few mice before than and after. The mice population dropped off right around the time of the cat bylaw. Weird.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)
hueymahl
(2,904 posts)Your argument is kind of like saying coal-burning power plants cause far more global warming than cars (or vice-versa), so let me keep driving my polluting car.
BOTH are a big problem. Just like outdoor cats are a big problem for birds and other wildlife.
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)Fitting end for the cat, heh.
uppityperson
(116,020 posts)the city, they would most likely be indoors.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)we had tons of them growing up around the barns and outbuildings. They never last long.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)
Since virtually all of the barn cats we have are abandoned here, I can't say for certain how old any of them are except those who showed up as kittens but they all live here for 10 - 15 years before passing along from age-related illnesses.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)Do you really live on a farm (like at least a 1/4 section?) or do you have a few acres in suburbia?
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)I've never heard of, nor seen, a single cat being taken by a predator bird. Ever.
And as a pro in the business, my entire life is filled with similar professionals operating on similar farms. Never heard of it happening. Furthermore we're located directly on the migration route for the eagles going to the Mississippi nesting grounds. We see them regularly.
Nope. Not once. There's plenty of discussion about coyotes and the peril they pose to barn cats - lots of opportunity for someone to bring it up, especially during Saturday night competitor's parties where the stories get big and outrageous.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)It may not be conducive to hunting for the owls. I grew up on 45,000 acres of gramma grass, buffalo grass, pinon, and ponderosa pine. We had another 45,000 acres leased in the Doug-fir/black timber country. The big golden eagles used to perch on the telephone poles. Great horned owls used to roost along the sloughs in the willows and cottonwoods.
Big tom cats seemed pretty safe. Half grown kittens seemed to just "disappear". If you do not know where the owls roost, you probably do not know what they have done. Finding cat hair in their pellets was the giveaway.
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/AllAboutBirds/owlp/ghowl/document_view
http://www.owlpages.com/news.php?article=283
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)The eagles tend to stay closer to the creek in order to avoid the owls as they come through but that's still just a scant few acres down the hill. We see them hunting when we hack around the farm fields. Red tail hawks are also extremely common and regularly hunt all around us.
And I repeat I'm surrounded by many hundreds of thousands of acres of corporate farmed IL farmland. We hack around the perimeters of the closer fields - so there's PLENTY of room to do what we need to do while giving the predator birds plenty of room to do what they do.
Obviously. Since they nest and live here.
Furthermore, I don't have tom cats, never have (after they've been trapped, vaxxed and fixed which is asap when they land on the property). All of the current bunch of cats are medium sized now but the last one was dumped here as a young kitten just last July, maybe 8 weeks old at the time. I'd notice if one of them went missing so checking the owl pellets for cat hair is silly. The cats are an essential part of our farm family - they're in and out of the barns and house all day.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)I am not going to argue with you over a well-documented scientific fact that golden eagles and great horned owls eat pets with some frequency. If you have never seen it, or do not experience it. Good for you. However you are trying to compare conditions in a midwest cornfield/fescue pasture with an AUM of one horse/2 acres to the open grasslands out west where it takes 75 acres of run a pair.
http://www.ilbirds.com/index.php?topic=32809.0
backwoodsbob
(6,001 posts)100+ acres...surrounded by other farms and woodlands.We kept cats to keep the rodent population down.We had eagles and owls and hawks applenty and I have never heard of a bird taking a cat.
NoGOPZone
(2,971 posts)Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #51)
PotatoChip This message was self-deleted by its author.
uppityperson
(116,020 posts)oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)She was free and loved. Nice.
Cats may be guilty of a lot, but pesticides are really awful for birds, also. My mother was a one woman neighborhood crusade to get the neighbors to stop using pesticides.
Scratch those kitties!
Arcanetrance
(2,670 posts)We are the only species capable of complete decimation of this planet and everything on it. I can't really get upset about cats outside eating birds and rodents.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)Out here on the farm. ...we will always have working outdoor cats.
alp227
(33,282 posts)NickB79
(20,354 posts)Feral cats are not. North American wildlife did not evolve with their predation.
alp227
(33,282 posts)Do feline species not have similar behavior/predation patterns?
NickB79
(20,354 posts)Bobcats and cougars are large-bodied predators, preying primarily on animals from rabbit to deer-size.
Wild/feral cats, on the other hand, prey on small animals such as rodents and songbirds. They fill entirely different niches. And while we might not think much of them, these small animals are vital to maintaining the food chain that supports the larger wildlife we all love.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)NickB79
(20,354 posts)Multiple posters, trying to minimize the damage cats do, because there are worse environmental threats.
As if we`re incapable of addressing more than one problem at a time. How about we address habitat destruction AND pesticides AND invasive species at the same time?
Are_grits_groceries
(17,139 posts)I know that cats are destructive to other wildlife. However, i'll stand by my statement that pesticides and other problems caused by man have done and will do more irreversible damage to the bird population.
Pesticides attack the bird's biological systems. DDT caused birds to lay paper-thin eggs. Many times you can see the damage cats and other animals do while the bigger problems lurk in the background.
You could catch and lock up every single cat that might hurt wildlife and the danger to different species would barely be touched.
While you accuse me and others of denial about the problems cats cause, all of these articles about 'evil' cats whip up fervor against them. They are portrayed as the monsters that hurt the innocent birds and bunnies.
These articles present the problem in black and white terms. Cats = bad. Nature = good. Nobody bothers to mention the many other factors. Because of this, guess what action will be taken if enough people get whipped up into demanding change? Cats will be seen as the problem and that's what group will bear the brunt of 'saving wildlife.'
Big business and those who make pesticides will be only too happy to bankroll the hysteria about cats so they are left alone. Yes, more than one approach can be tried to save wildlife. However, that's not how it will work. The big money will protect the agribusinesses tht deal in poisons. The rest of us will be fighting whatever draconian laws are dreamt up to deal with cats.
Good luck slowing the hysteria train down when it gets rolling. Just remember that it is hard to control and may run over the very things you cherish.
area51
(12,691 posts)Fewer cats, more plague?
http://hubpages.com/hub/Cats-and-the-Black-Plague
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)plus they are so lovey and snuggly and funny.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)That is why in many European countries and outdoor cat is considered vermin. Real studies, with p-values. Not just anecdotal articles.
Are_grits_groceries
(17,139 posts)However, the use of poisons systemically ruin a bird's ability to thrive and adapt. Destruction of their habitats makes it that much harder.
I repeat. People can see and measure the effect of cats more easily. It is the other problems that aren't so easily seen and that are hard to measure that will doom birds and other animals.
Lock up every single outdoor car and birds will still disappear. By then it will be much too late to address the real killer.
Big Ag and investors love these screeds about cats. They know people will be fixated on them and leave business alone to make $$$.
My problem with this is that the other dangers are ignored and/or overlooked in the rush to damn cats. In the long run, if there isn't as much attention on those other killers, it won't matter what is done about cats.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)and yes, it is persistent, and yes, it is ubiquitous. Contrary to your statement, its effects are VERY well documented, particularly on raptors. It has banned for many years in the United States. It was also bio-magnified and hit raptors harder than others because of it.
Other cholrinated pesticides (Chlordane, Heptachlor) were outlawed years ago as well. Many of the pesticides today (used in America) are pyrethrin based. Most warm blooded creates metabolize them quite well (they are a derivative of the chrysanthemum). I am a toxicologist and I worked with some of these chemicals for years. It is one of the reasons I do not eat organic food. I fear the "fertilizer" practices associated with large-scale organic farming much more than I fear the pesticides I am exposed to.
I always find cat people strange. If a pack of dogs were out ravaging the local deer herd, would you feel the same way? After all, that is in THEIR nature too and the same arguments can be made. Yet, strangely, you never hear anyone saying dogs should be turned loose to terrorize the local wildlife.
Ghost Dog
(16,881 posts)In fact in Europe the concept of 'outdoor cat' is almost unknown, since almost all cats will have free access to the outdoors. What would be unusual, and probably considered to be cruel, is the 'indoor cat' phenomenom (some even have claws pulled). This is very unnatural for a cat.
Small cats' potential prey, here in the old world, have evolved alongside small cats, are aware of the danger and are usually adept at avoidance strategies, although they will occasionally lose out. A well-fed domestic cat will not be trying too hard anyway, but will hunt for sport.
The decline in bird numbers in Europe can definitely be put down mainly to habitat damage (including by pesticides and herbicides) and loss (including urbanisation and industrialisation in general).
Logical
(22,457 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)killing millions of birds a year is ok?
Did I get it right?
So you don't think both are a problem?
NickB79
(20,354 posts)I choose to not use pesticides/herbicides on my land.
I choose to plant native trees, shrubs and wildflowers to improve wildlife habitat.
I choose to build bird nesting boxes to sub in for the dead trees the previous owners cut down.
AND I choose to live-trap and remove cats that wander onto my land.
On the other hand, I have yet to hear a good reason why outdoor cats are OK and/or a good idea. Outside of farmers owning cats to eat mice around the grainery, there is NO GOOD REASON to allow your pet cat to roam outside.
I own two cats, and would NEVER allow them outside, because I recognize the danger to their own well-being that comes with it.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)They are NOT family pets though. My dad had two and said no more barn cats ever after owning them.
http://germanjagdterrier.net/the_cumberland_pack_002.htm
NickB79
(20,354 posts)Though you'd never know it by looking at her.
(not ours, but she looked just like this) 
She was constantly leaving dead mice, rats, and gophers on our front step that came too close to the farm buildings. We had to tear down an old wooden corn crib once, and under it was a massive rat nest. That dog was just a blur of movement, killing rats left and right with precision hits.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)about six seconds and it is over.
Response to NickB79 (Reply #15)
HangOnKids This message was self-deleted by its author.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)Instead, the focus is just on roaming cats. That's why some of us always point out the other reasons for the decline.
Cats are a subcategory of nonnative and potentially invasive species. They're also an easy target, so the focus goes to them while ignoring all of the other nonnative species save for a few highly invasive landscaping plants. It's like focusing on plastic bag bans without also taking on the excessive use of plastic in consumer packaging.
But while on the subject of nonnative and potentially invasive species, let's begin a European starling eradication program. They're so common in the U.S. that they must have an impact on native birds who seek the same habitat.
NickB79
(20,354 posts)In fact, I've been waging my own personal war against starlings, house sparrows and pigeons since I was 10 years old and my dad gave me my first pellet rifle.
I use a bigger pellet rifle today, but the end result is the same.
madinmaryland
(65,729 posts)
NickB79
(20,354 posts)I shoot starlings on my property. They are an invasive species that harms native wildlife.
alarimer
(17,146 posts)By someone in the 1890's (I think) who wanted to bring in all the bird species mentioned in the works of Shakespeare into the United States. I'm not sure how far they got beyond starlings.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)"Outdoor cats: Single greatest source of human-caused mortality for birds and mammals, says new study
January 2013. A new peer-reviewed study published and authored by scientists from two of the world's leading science and wildlife organizations - the Smithsonian Conservation Biology Institute and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) - has found that bird and mammal mortality caused by outdoor cats is much higher than has been widely reported, with annual bird mortality now estimated to be 1.4 to 3.7 billion and mammal mortality likely 6.9 - 20.7 billion individuals in the US alone." (my bold)
A lot of that is from "un-owned" cats, but a substantial portion is not. We all love cats. But they are a problem.
countryjake
(8,554 posts)and, thank you, XemaSab, for posting this article. I'd like to say that as someone who spent years working with a TNR program and eventually finally myself at odds with the block-headed ignorance of a few in the Humane Society, Mr. Conniff is correct in questioning the policy of going to all of the trouble of trapping a feral (an often painful and dangerous undertaking), only to send such cats right back out on their mission of destroying indigenous wildlife (and at the mercy of said wildlife). It's simply irresponsible; once you've got hands-on these unwanted, unloved creatures, if a proper, conscientious home cannot be found for them, they are better off dead.
I won't say anymore, except that I heartily agree with this piece. I have no wish to spark yet another conflict today and that often happens with this particular topic.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)have no impact on feral pops.; that feral colonies are not eliminated or reduced by cats dying off without a successive generation to replace the neutered generation? Or is his complaint that current spay-neuter programs are too expensive and gradual when compared with killing the cats?
Ohio Joe
(21,898 posts)I fuckin hate birds.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)As if that is so important. Your post cracked me up BTW!
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)The standard on site seems to be to use whatever the original title was when presenting a link and fair use text of articles pulled from offsite, in this case the NYT I think.
Response to HangOnKids (Reply #23)
SidDithers This message was self-deleted by its author.
MelungeonWoman
(502 posts)Way too early in the morning! 
Logical
(22,457 posts)Ohio Joe
(21,898 posts)
Logical
(22,457 posts)
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)It's really sad. We shouldn't let stray dogs roam the streets.
Ohio Joe
(21,898 posts)Sheesh... Cats kill birds and birds suck ass, get over it. Trying turn turn it into some ecological disaster is simply stupid.
alphafemale
(18,497 posts)Like solar or wind power.
It will hurt the birds.
Hate on the fuckin' birds indeed.
madaboutharry
(42,033 posts)Her name also failed her. But, she was an indoor cat who got out one day. I have always had indoor cats. I never believed in letting cats outside.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)"all outdoor cats are killers" meme. DU wouldn't be complete without it.
I have 7 cats -- 2 indoor and 5 outdoor. Between all of them they bring me MAYBE 2 -3 tree rats PER YEAR. The wildlife decimation is from habitat encroachment, from pesticides and people with their pew pew toys who feel they simply MUST shoot something so the wildlife get it.
Try though you might, you're not going to shame me for having outdoor cats. Many have tried, all have failed.
And Ghostie, Henry, Dutchess, Xena and Loki say Thhhpppppptttt to the cat haters out there.
B2G
(9,766 posts)a birdfeeder on our deck. It's always packed with birds.
I've maybe seen two dead birds in the past 5 years.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)One hummingbird feeder and 2 wild bird feeders. They're pretty much always occupied during the day.
B2G
(9,766 posts)bringing down a hummingbird.
Bigmack
(8,020 posts)B2G
(9,766 posts)Bigmack
(8,020 posts)the cat learned to hide in the bushes under the hummer feeder. Hummers don't have eyes in their butts
Bonx
(2,353 posts)Loki is a dog's name!
It is a shame people direct their righteous indignation at Pandora's Box.
I mourn the lack of lizards in our neck of the urban environment.
People can go off in such ways without thinking through the size and shape of the real problem.
It reminds me of the wildly promoted antipathy towards orca shows and captivity,
while radio silence is maintained over the ELF military efforts that force these animals into stranding massacres.
Pointless hypocrisy, energy burnt like so many pounds of sugar, and NOTHING FIXED FOR THE BETTER.
We have destroyed so much of the natural habitat of the planet, yet we cant get off our asses and protect what is left.
Like Adam Sandler sang so succinctly
"It's all buuuuulllshit!"
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)She's a bit teched, don't 'cha know? We don't let her in the house anymore because she hisses and spits at inanimate objects. But she's cool outside. The other cats give her a WIDE berth. They know crazy when they see it. Seriously, mine mostly sleep all day in the patio. They're a slovenly bunch they are. Besides, if cats are fed regularly (we always have food down for them and the other 30+ cats that also come to feed) they're less likely to stalk prey. Not guaranteed, of course, 'cause there's that whole torture the prey thing but far less likely. I mean, they'd actually have to get UP and RUN or something.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)I have to admit, I had to check the calendar to make certain the bi-annual hatefest on owners who let their cats out was on time this spring...
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)and is otherwise in a suburb. we have feral cats everywhere and it's not cool. Other than dodging kittens in the street ( most get smashed by traffic) all year round (texas - it's warm here) there is a distinct decline in the bird population. I have 3 indoor cats, btw.
So we have less birds and smashed kittens in the street. Explain that last part to your kids.
Not cool.
B2G
(9,766 posts)from letting your domesticated cat outside.
Those cats have to kill to survive. A well fed domesticated cat doesn't do that type of damage.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)n/t
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)and ignoring the monsoon.
dembotoz
(16,922 posts)the hell with the bs about pesticides and habitat being more of a factor
letting your animal be the neighborhood death squad is just wrong
damn its like raising a republican
B2G
(9,766 posts)That is doing most of the damage, not fluffy.
"In a paper published today in Nature Communications, they write that between 1.4 to 3.7 billion birds lose their lives to cats each year in the United States. Around 33 percent of the birds killed are non-native species (read: unwelcome). Even more startlingly, between 6.9 to 20.7 billion small mammals succumb to the predators. In urban areas, most of the mammals were pesky rats and mice, though rabbit, squirrel, shrew and vole carcasses turned up in rural and suburban locations. Just under 70 percent of those deaths, the authors calculate, occur at the paws of unowned cats, a number about three times the amount domesticated kitties slay."
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/feral-cats-kill-billions-of-small-critters-each-year-7814590/?no-ist
dembotoz
(16,922 posts)i love indoor cats
joint custody of several
they are like kids
but birds need protection too
NickB79
(20,354 posts)But one day, Fluffy decides to not come home and instead start breeding somewhere.
In general, feral cat populations are not self-sustaining for long periods of time. Without a steady influx of new blood from free-roaming outdoor domesticated cats, they die out as disease, cars and other predators take their toll.
Cut off the supply of new blood, and the feral populations die off.
B2G
(9,766 posts)And I'm guessing most pet owners on this thread are responsible.
What I object to is the implication that those of us here who let out cats outside are irresponsible. My spayed cat has never killed a bird. She does leave moles and lizard offerings for me, but never a bird. Not once.
hueymahl
(2,904 posts)And yes, you are being irresponsible for letting the cat outside. Or willfully ignorant of the studies. Either way, it is the same.
And your cat may be killing birds but you not know about it.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)It took a couple of months of wooing with progressively stinkier food (and some brutally cold weather), but eventually my wife was able to coax him inside. Then two more months until yesterday, when he could peacefully touch noses with my other cat. Homeboy is not going outside again, and he seems to be comfortable with that. He's very chill, and at twelve years, looks ready for his retirement from tomcattin'.
ForgoTheConsequence
(5,186 posts)Good job!
nilesobek
(1,423 posts)yrs old and always has lived outside but she cheats a little because there is a hole under my house. She can get in any time. Sometimes when she's scrapping with other cats I expect her to come up through the floor followed by another animal!
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)each other. The vet used to say we had some type of spiritual bond, like old souls reunited or something. He found me when only a few weeks old. I heard a rustling in the bushes one night as going in the front door. I went out to investigate, heard it again, investigated some more and this thing that looked like a little mouse or rat flew by so fast and it was twilight.
This went on a couple of times, then eventually this little cat walked up to me, I guess I had passed the smell test, looked at me lovingly, went to the front door and wrapped himself around the security bars, that was it, I'm not going anyplace.
He came into the house and the rest is history. He never left my side and never wanted anything remotely to do with the outdoors. The vet said his eyes had just opened very recently.
I was so relieved. As a child our pets were never let inside and I recall well the cats disappeared, hit by cars, whatever disasters they might run into in a semi-rural area.
All of my pets during my time have been indoor pets. To me, it's very humane and my pets have always enjoyed the indoors.
Bigmack
(8,020 posts)Why would people who says they love their cats put those cats out to play with the coyotes?
B2G
(9,766 posts)let them out of the house?
NickB79
(20,354 posts)Are you letting your children play outside while wolves and lions roam in the bushes?
Or, in an urban area, do you leave your children unattended, playing next to a busy highway?
Because that would be an apt comparison.
B2G
(9,766 posts)But we don't hold them prisoner in our homes for fear of what might happen to them.
At least normal people don't.
NickB79
(20,354 posts)That's why, as parents, we evaluate the comparative dangers and choose wisely to determine what are acceptable risks.
Let our children play in the park? Sure.
Let our children play in the median of a busy highway? Fuck no.
Let our children go to the zoo? Sure.
Let our children go INSIDE the tiger enclosure at the zoo? Fuck no.
Take our children to the hospital to visit a sick relative? Sure.
Let our children inside a quarantine area at the hospital when the sick relative has a highly contagious, deadly disease? Fuck no.
And the most important thing: THEY ARE ALWAYS SUPERVISED. I'm not a helicopter parent by any means, but I don't let my 3-yr old daughter run around a park by herself while I go grab a coffee at the Starbucks across the street.
And letting your domesticated cats outside, where dangerous predators, speeding cars, and deadly diseases are common, is pretty much the same as doing all the dumb, dangerous parenting moves I said fuck no to above.
Logical
(22,457 posts)
wheniwasincongress
(1,307 posts)and our kids can't?
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)You seem to be weirdly and obsessively anti-cat.
I find it disturbing, to say the least.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)I let them outside but on a leash. You can train them to a leash. That way you can take them outdoors without them killing birds and othe critters or being killed themselves. I have a friend who built a little cat garden for her pets. It's entirely fenced in with chain link fencing. She has little cat houses too for them to sleep or shelter in if it rains as well as water doohickeys. She puts them in there when she's at work. They are more than happy to come indoors in the evening after a day in their garden.
mike_c
(37,051 posts)I mean, hyperbole much? No animal is evil simply for living its life as it evolved to live it. And let's not forget that old chestnut about glass houses, either. Tell me again which species has the greatest negative impact on bird populations? Clue: it's not kitties.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)take out a lot of them. Also, the coyotes do a good job of cleaning out a lot of wildlife as well.
Logical
(22,457 posts)
MissB
(16,344 posts)We live in the woods, on a half acre. Lots of mice. Lots of moles. Coyotes, deer, hawks, raccoons, etc.
Two cats - one mostly indoor except for a couple of 15 minute excursions each day, one more outdoor than indoor. Both sleep inside at night.
About once a year they bring us a bird rather than a mouse or a mole. Never a towhee, though, which is odd because they are everywhere around our property. We have great habitats for birds here, purposefully. We don't put out feeders though. About once a year we get a dead bird by window, despite decals. Something about one of our windows is attractive. We are planning on replacing it in the next few years.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)Not because she'd hunt; the hunting would be welcome. I live rurally, and rodents abound. She's strictly indoors because of the predators out there that make cat lives very short.
Meanwhile, keeping an indoor cat has created a problem I've yet to find a solution for.
The dog can't use the doggy door. I work very, very long hours. I either have to leave the dog out too long, or in too long, because the cat uses the doggy door as quickly and easily as the dog.
Who has a solution? How do I give the dog access to the house but restrict the cat's access to the outdoors?
I have no garage. I could lock the cat in my bedroom all day every day...which would make for a neurotic cat. During decent weather, I can close off the half of the house with the cat; for at least 6 months of the year, though, that also closes off heat from the wood stove, the only heat source here, and allows the half of the house I actually live in to enter a deep freeze.
I've yet to find a solution; in the winter, the dog simply has to hold it for 12-13 hours every day. In good weather, she stays out in the yard.
B2G
(9,766 posts)They're activated to open and close with a chip you attach to the dog's collar. Keeps other critters out as well.
Don't know the cost, but it might be worth looking in to. Good luck!
LWolf
(46,179 posts)Maybe experimenting with, although I wouldn't put it past the cat to get in and out on the dog's heels.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Maybe pay him/her a couple bucks a pop for a short doggy potty break?
LWolf
(46,179 posts)No neighbors. But lots of coyotes, hawks, and owls to take unwary cats.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)A doggy/cat door that leads to a small outdoor enclosure, like a "catio" that can be used for dogs as well?
Something like this:
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Most insidiously, outdoor cats are the primary hosts of toxoplasmosis, which is estimated to infect almost 30 percent of all humans worldwide. Toxoplasmosis produces lifelong parasitic cysts in the brain, and though it is generally asymptomatic it has been linked to neurological impairments, depression, blindness and birth defects. Even in asymptomatic individuals, the infection is associated with significant loss of memory in later life, according to a study last month in the journal Brain, Behavior, and Immunity.
I like to walk around barefoot in my back yard, and thanks to the elderly neighbour who fed ferals up until her recent death, we've still got several hanging around who I often see traipsing through my yard. It sounds like if those little buggers take a crap in my garden, I can get toxoplasmosis by eating a strawberry off the vine without washing it? Ugh.
catbyte
(39,152 posts)with a gernade. I had one indoor-outdoor cat who passed a couple of years ago at age 24. He just loved to patrol the block every couple of hours then sleep on the porch swing. I miss Junior. He was one hell of a cat--the quinessential feline free spirit. I don't recall him killing anything & he would always come inside to use the litterbox, lol.
3catwoman3
(29,406 posts)I tell them they are trading their freedom for their longevity. I don't know about them, but I consider it a more than fair trade off.