The Presidency... I Wonder Sometimes About The Diminishing Of The Office... Approaching Infantalism

[WillyT]

He's a grown man, who's walked the mean streets of Chicago, educated himself, did community work, became a state rep, a U.S. Senator, has a beautiful smart wife, two smart and lovely daughters, has the Secret Service, the D.C. Police, Marine 1, AirForce 1, and the entire MIC protecting him...

And yet some here feel the need to make sure he's Ok.

I'm sure he gets a good chuckle... if he's even heard of us.

And... he's a politician.

[Solomon]

1. You know what. The tide is starting to turn.

People are getting sick and tired of the constant bashing posts. You guys have lost any shred of credibility. It's getting so fucking old. Same old shit, different day.

[pscot]

3. Who is he bashing?

It isn't personal; strictly politics.

[Solomon]

11. Look. The constant meme that anybody that doesn't whine and disagrees with the constant criticism

of Obama is an "Obamabot" or personality cult worshiper is ridiculous and infantile on it own. It's getting old. Even the op has openly admitted in this thread, that he gets more attention from criticizing than expressing support. Ego demanding attention is a hell of a thing.

[blue neen]

5. Agreed.

There is never any credit given, whatsoever. None.

Constant, unending criticism leads to no credibility.

[WillyT]

6. No Neen... Don't You Get It... There Are Hundreds Of Posts Where We Think Obama Got It Correct...

They sink, because there's no cause for fight/division/rancor there...

The majority of recced/contested posts regarding POTUS, are the ones that gets everybody's hackles up.

I've posted numerous positive posts (believe it or not), they don't tend to hang around for long...

[blue neen]

10. I'll take your word for it.

Here's the issue I see right now. This OP, IMHO, was unnecessary and frivolous. The daily negativity is harmful to DU and to the Democratic party.

We have seen enough division from both "sides". It's especially painful for those of us (and there are many) who try to look at both sides of a story. Then we get scorned and ridiculed for being too "centrist". I'm a liberal, but I like to see an educated discussion of both or many sides of an issue. I grew up as referee to parent's arguments, sibling's arguments. Some of us live life in the grey zone, not black and white. Even if someone is a "centrist", is that grounds for daily derision?

DU should not be waiting until after Labor Day to concentrate on the 2014 elections. There are going to be some very important Governor's races this fall---I'm most familiar with Pennsylvania's. We are lucky to have what appears to be 4 great Democratic candidates. In the primary in May, it is IMPERATIVE that we choose the candidate who can beat Tom Corbett (gawd, he's hideously awful). We also need a Governor who can bring Pennsylvania from the death throes thrust upon us by Corbett. I realize that there is a Pennsylvania forum, but the described scenario is going on in states all across the U.S. We've got to get these ALEC people out of there. That's far more important that scoring constant "gotchas" because you don't care for President Obama. Enough, already. We get your point.

We also have some very competitive races for the U.S. House going on here. Erin McClelland has an excellent chance to oust Keith Rothfus, teaparty cretin. We need to get the Democratic vote out, not suppress it. IMHO, the constant bashing posts, the condescending "humorous" posts will do nothing to get out the vote. I'm sure that's not the result that you want.

Thanks for listening.

[Number23]

39. There was never a tide to turn! These folks represent the 15% (let that sink in -- FIFTEEN PERCENT)

of Dems and "dems" that don't support the Pres. There was never a "tide" to turn.

[JaneyVee]

2. And that angers you?

[laundry_queen]

4. haha

I've been thinking how to post that exact thought, complete with the word infantilize...never got around to it. GMTA. But you basically just said what I've been bouncing around in my head for the better part of a week now. I don't get it either, I really don't.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Willy the other side did the same thing with Former President Bush

They needed to protect him too.

And I will leave that here. Why I keep saying we are really not a mature democracy. Oh and I do get it. I wish I did not, because it is really ugly.

[WillyT]

8. Oh I Know... It's The... What... Subordination Of The Citizen To The Politician ???

They used to be scared of us... not so much anymore.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Part of it

The US has had cults of personality throughout her short history. Some were hyper local, and ran machines, others were national. It is the one that will save us. And yes, our history is young. It's gotten really bad though and as the environmental (and economic) crisis deepens, it will get far worst.

Look on the bright side, it has yet to reach the extremes that Europe has. Though with Huey long we came close to a Franco like cult. President George W Bush, it got bad...but not even close to Long.

And yes, I made the decision to respect the office, even when a Republican held it. I asked Skinner if he would ban calling names only during Democratic administrations, or extend the courtesy to the office. I never quite got the answer. So going back to that silly military standard. Might not like the man, but yes sir three bags full to the office itself. I guess it is time we start leading by example.

[Solomon]

12. Cult of personality, cult of personality, cult of personality. Its such bullshit but you just keep

repeating this bullshit in every thread to justify belittling people who disagree with you. Every time you invoke it, you lose more credibility. Criticize all you want. Nobody has a problem with that. But for some reason you feel the need to try and support your opinion by dismissing anyone who disagrees with your opinion as a fawning Obama worshiper. I used to listen to you. But your credibility is all gone away. Don't be fooled by the little fan club of bashers. There's a silent majority that doesn't appreciate it. Just because we're not posting much doesn't mean we're not here.

[WillyT]

13. So... Do You Think The President Is Gonna Be Ok ???

Because I'm pretty certain he is.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. So I guess historians who have written of this

Also disagree with you

Here, a book on Long and others.

http://books.google.com/books?id=22G7x_UN5G0C&pg=PA148&lpg=PA148&dq=huey+long+and+cult+of+personality&source=bl&ots=kcJc_q9hhY&sig=jRQsgmS9y00osa5LMcLIvcN8cKk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4U02U7KdK4SA2wXX14HAAg&ved=0CDcQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=huey%20long%20and%20cult%20of%20personality&f=false

I am sorry this hurts your feelings but we are a rather young nation. And I include the first eight years of the present century.

For the record, some historians have argued that one existed around FDR. And don't get me started with Jackson.

I am sorry that hurts your sensibilities though. It is not disagreeing. It is stating a fact. One best observed abroad, but logs in somebody else's eyes do not except the mote in yours.

[Solomon]

23. lol. It doesn't hurt my feelings.

How arrogant of you. I'm trying to tell you that it hurts your credibility. But then again, you've to busy calling people Obamabots to listen. Carry on. Lol

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. My credibility as a student of history is hurt by citing

History and the work of historians? How does that work exactly? I forgot, looking forwards, never backwards, Huey Long was well before your lifetime, therefore it never existed.

Now I have yet to call you or others obamabots. Cultish yes, bots, not so much. And cultish in the same way people behaved around President george W Bush (get over it, my favorite phrase thrown at people like me demonstrating in the early years by his fans) and from the historic record a few other occasions in US history.

It might be best, if you do not want to be called cultish, not to behave in such a manner as you are doing precisely right now. "Hurt your credibility" and other personal attacks also came from their mouths as some of us demonstrated against the theft. It was kind of lame back then, just as it is right now. Oh and yes, people were also worried about the President, what about his feelings? Trust me, neither man will hear of their followers hurling insults at those that do not belong, by choice, to the cult like behavior.

But do carry on.

[Solomon]

29. lol. i never made any personal attacks on you.

That's your own ego screaming because somebody doesn't agree with your point of view. If I were to make an attack equivalent to your saying we're part of a personality cult, I would have called you a hater. I never did that. Just trying to tell you that it's not debating anybody to resort to constant references to personality cult.

Lol. It's hilarious of you to point to my "behavior" as though I'm a part of your mythological personality cult.

You keep building straw men. I never questioned your credibility because you cited history. I'm try ing to tell you you lost credibility because you keep accusing people of being in a personality cult.

Maybe I can explain it to you this way. Will Pitt has lost credibility with a lot of folk because he stupidly called the president a piece of shit used car salesman. But then again, I saw you calling people being in the personality cult because they took exception to what Pitt said so I guess it makes no sense trying to help you.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. Alas you did my dear Sir

And no it is not my paranoia.


And as to will Pitt, go tell him that. Because I really do not care what you guys thnk. "Used car salesman" and "piece of shit" have been used in editorial writings since before I, or President Obama, hell former President George WBush, were born. How that suddenly became racist is a mystery to me.



Free clue, I actually read the damn five versions of the ACA, and sections of smaller changes too. What Pitt encountered I told my husband was going to be an issue before it was even passed or signed, since it was never dealt with. Since Pitt posted that, we have had two more posters dealing with yes, formularies and problems with such.

The ACA has issues. It is not perfect. It will need legislative fixes. That is also par for the course in US legislative history. And yes, that is cultish behavior, the way people dealt with it and attacked him, or the way people regularly attack me. Adults deal with issues and fix them. And I will leave it at that.

[darkangel218]

27. Are you comparing democrats "protecting" Obama with the repukes

Protecting Bush and his wars??

LOL!!!

[Whisp]

14. He is more than a politician, he is a good human being

and when history serves him correctly, all the assholes ragging on him day in and day out with the most vile insults, will pretend, to their grandkids, that they supported him, because gramma/grandpa, greatgramma/grandpa would look like total douchebags if they don't. Unless you are a teabaggin' kinda fam.

[WillyT]

16. Of Course He's A Good Human Being... I'm a Good Human Being... You, Are A Good Human Being...

What we thought we were getting was a good Human Being with the skill set to change the crap that is Washington D.C.

And that didn't turn out like we thought.

[Whisp]

17. really now. One President is supposed to upset the whole history of greed and inequality.

I am sometimes a good human being, sometimes not, but I am not a stupid one that dines on Disney movies for reality.

[WillyT]

18. Oh OK... The Cynical/Paternalistic Approach...

We are smarter and more powerful that you... so listen the fuck up.

Thanks dad.

Again...

[Whisp]

19. You are welcome, now go clean up your room with all the puke in it. n/t

[WillyT]

21. As You Are Welcome To Put Your Faith In Politicians...

Good luck with that.

[darkangel218]

28. Who else are we supposed to put our faith in??

They are the ones who are officially representing us.

What exactly are you trying to say?

[lumpy]

20. A president has to have more than skill to accomplish anything. It takes cooperation from

his constituents, his supporters, as well as his fellow politicians. When other people are involved in decisions making and the final process, it takes a consensus to make it happen.

[WillyT]

22. So How Does One Know Where A President Really Stands ???

Or do we ever get to know that?

I'm sorry... I've been told I live in a teenage universe.

Please explain.

Thanks in advance.

[greatauntoftriplets]

24. Trash thread.

[Bobbie Jo]

34. +1

Right behind you. 768th version of the same condescending post.

[darkangel218]

26. I dont think POTUS cares about what some posters on DU say.

However, I think it's hurting our party to be extremely critical or mean towards our President. Remember, united we stand, devided we fall.
Perheps maybe we could tone down a bit the disappointment. At least to a civil level.

This is an election year, and a pretty important one. Lets not hate our own.

Anytime I think of PBO shortcomings, I think of what the fuck we would have done with Mittens or McCain in office.

Enough said.

[MineralMan]

31. If the President of the United States ever gave a moment's thought

to DU, I'd think he wasn't busy enough doing his job. Do you really suppose he even thinks about what goes on here? I can't imagine that he does. A couple of thousand people bickering about politics? How is that of interest to a man who has won election to be President?

You are correct about one thing, though: Posting threads that whine about whatever the President has not done get more attention on DU than threads that congratulate him for something he has done. DU is like that, and it's not surprising. That's its nature. DUers are more likely to participate in threads that take a negative position than to threads that are positive.

President Obama doesn't care about the discussions here on DU. Nobody briefs him on them, and he has more to do than to read the bickering here. Right now, he's busy with the Crimea situation. It looks like his actions have prompted Putin to make a call to try to deal with the situation in some sort of diplomatic way. So, right now, he's meeting with others who have real knowledge about diplomacy to figure out how to proceed in the most effective way.

If someone on DU calls him a "piece of shit used car salesman" or accuses those who think he's doing a pretty good job in many areas of being infantile, President Obama is not going to be aware of that. He's not interested in what a couple thousand posters on an Internet discussion forum think about the job he's doing. It's completely irrelevant. He has to worry about what other heads of state think about him and how to get other people in high elected office to actually get something done.

What I find amusing is that some people believe that their postings here and on the blogs that focus on political issues have any effect at all on how a President operates. That's amusing. It's sometimes hilarious, even.

So, please proceed, WillyT. You're a big hit here with maybe a couple of hundred people. You can see their names if you click the number of recs any of your posts receive. If you do that, you'll see that it's the same couple of hundred people every time. Bask in it, if you wish, but don't be deceived by it. It affects nothing. DU is a cool place to talk about our own opinions, but it's not an influential place of interest to the people we're talking about. Not at all.

And I'll keep right on posting the kinds of things I post. I don't have as big a list of DU reccers as you do, but that's not why I post here. I post here for the discussions that ensue. I find it a good way to put my thoughts together and hear what other people think. Beyond that, it's pretty much irrelevant to anything.

[WillyT]

32. Well MM... I Agree With Most Of What You Said...

When I first got here, around January 2002, I worried about how certain posts might "look" to people visiting the site.

I was quickly schooled in the folly of that sort of thinking by many of the posters here at the time.

Although we are bigger, and more visited now than then, we still don't move the polling/voting in any meaningful way.

So the question becomes... why do people get so apoplectic about something rude said about a politician... even a politician that they, and I, voted for ???

My guess is that they are not really protecting the aforementioned politician, as much as they are "protecting" the thinking/choice/vote they made at election time.

And that's understandable... up to a point.

[blue neen]

33. "why do people get so apoplectic about something rude said about a politician"

Um, because it's not "something" rude, it's "constant" rude. It's not just this politician, it's the attacks on people here.

You didn't reply to post #10. You just kept up the attacks, thus telling us everything we need to know.

[WillyT]

36. Neen... He's A politician... He's Not The Second Coming..He Will Say What Is Necessary And Expedient.

To do what he feels he needs to do.

[blue neen]

37. "He's Not The Second Coming" That's a joke, right? Who said that "he" is?

It doesn't matter if it's President Biden, President H. Clinton, President Kucinich, or President Obama. It seems that some people want to beat down and other people want to lift up.

Good luck. We'll all be looking forward to seeing some of those positive posts you mentioned upthread.

[WillyT]

38. Take A Beep Breath... A Couple Of Times... And Then Get To Work On 2014 Like The Rest Of Us...

Helloooooooo...

[blue neen]

40. I don't want to beep. My husband finds it distracting.

If you'll look again at Post #10, you'll see that I'm way ahead of the curve on 2014.

'Night, Willy.

[CJCRANE]

35. The readership at DU is small

but sometimes things in the liberal blogosphere do get picked up by the MSM or transmitted via social media to a larger audience.

The RW works on a theory called "perception is reality" which means that, even if something isn't true, if they can make people believe it's true, then they've won the battle.

There is a constant battle of ideas and perceptions in the blogosphere, in the MSM and social media. DU is only a small corner of that battlefield, but it is a part of it nonetheless.

IMO most, if not all, DUers are simply opinionated individuals. But even amongst those individuals there are posters who want their perception to dominate, which causes a reaction by those who don't want that perception to dominate. It's a constant back-and-forth, chicken-and-egg situation as we can't say who started it, and we won't ever see the end of it, because politics is an ongoing process.

(Of course most of us are just here for the purpose of posting our opinions and adding to the debate).

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. It's akin to why people feel the need to "protect" an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent God.