General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSo now, it's not just Obama, but the Democratic Party that's being bashed here?
This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Lasher (a host of the General Discussion forum).
I mean seriously? Questioning their donation emails? The Democratic Party relies on large base of small donations. I'm sick and tired of the bullshit going on here. If you really don't trust the party anymore, that's fine, but stop bashing them here. The rest of us who actually don't want to see Congress handed to the Repubs have much to do, and constant demoralizing posts are at least an annoyance, and possibly seen as an attempt to undermine the morale of many good people who would otherwise be active and contributing to the success of this year's election.
And before anyone accuses me of trying to hush dissent, you are free to say whatever you want. But this site has rules and terms, most of which have been relaxed over time. If you really feel the need to attack the party on grass roots fundraising efforts, I suggest you aren't what you say you are and you should take it elsewhere. That's not dissent, it's subversion.
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MineralMan
(150,527 posts)
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)with people who are capable of independent thought and differences of opinions. If you want lock-step, try the Republicans, they're real good at it.
If the Admins don't like the posts or the people who post them they are free to eliminate those who start the threads. They haven't, which should tell you something. Apparently, you're not getting the message.
MineralMan
(150,527 posts)effects of discouraging donations to Democrats.
Best wishes,
GOTV-Way MineralManny
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)MineralMan
(150,527 posts)I see. Never mind.
Great job, Taz. Please proceed.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)
MineralMan
(150,527 posts)Amazing, huh?
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)Oh, please, what is my "true intent?" **rubbing hands together complete with evil laugh BWAHAHAHAHAHA**
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)
TheSarcastinator
(854 posts)Way to sabotage your own ethical stance.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)why?
Why are you intent on pretending, labelling, Nazism here?
What alternatives are you offering besides hoplessness, party subversion and apathy and by extension, handing the entirety of government over to the GOP?
ps...perhaps going through your email tutorial and learning how to manage the inbox will relieve of a lot of german throwbacks.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)That's my agenda, to offer "hoplessness," party subversion and apathy and by extension, handing the entirety of government over to the GOP?
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)a not so obvious deflection on invoking german/Nazi language in arguing with a DU'er.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)... to conservative-backed groups who run conservatives as Democrats.
I donate only to candidates, not PACS, to ensure my scarce resources go to candidates who espouse values in which I believe, and not to those hand-picked by conservatives.
RC
(25,592 posts)Now mostly Blue Dogs support the DLC based 3rd Way and New Democrats and the corporatist they run and we elect.
That (D) doesn't mean anything close to what it once did.
Sometimes this black and white reasoning just drives me over the edge.
"Stop bashing the PBO and the Dems or we'll get the Republicans in control!" Or a Republican posing as a Dem which in the end is still voting for a Republican.
-p
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)
riqster
(13,986 posts)Feckin' brilliant!
appleannie1
(5,405 posts)the Democratic Party here and never ever say anything about the positive aspect of the party, there will only end up being a Republican Party. Discussion is one thing, what some are doing here is a total attempt to trash everything about the Democratic Party. No one in a political world ever completely gets everything they want so quit trashing the party that at least gives you some of it or at least tries to. Point out the positives once in a while. Besides, why you put out there is what you end up getting back.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)as I complained in 2007
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/51
randome
(34,845 posts)
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr]
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)Something to keep in mind, I hope.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game. -Existenz[/center][/font][hr]
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)
SunsetDreams
(8,571 posts)March 15th
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)and has put diddly squat into any races here.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)We're the Democrat's ATM and get not a dime back.
pscot
(21,044 posts)but that's not true in states like North Carolina, Louisiana or Wisconsin, where outside money drives election results. If California dollars serve democracy in other, less forward looking states, do you begrudge it?
SunSeeker
(57,448 posts)Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)put some of that money back into California Congressional races that could be won. That's all I'm sayin'.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)And do not have money to put into some assembly races.
So let me qualify that statement. They can handle it now. That does not mean they will in the future.
Oh and I have been told in my face by the state party head that nationals do not care to use the state for nothing more. They all forget that the state was not always a secure blue state. But I could point to this until I am blue in the face...
pscot
(21,044 posts)I was living in the Bay area when Reagan was elected governor. Still, the state party probably has the resources to intervene in local races, but for a variety of reasons chooses not to. Politicians are notoriously insecure. Elected officials in safe seats tend to hoard their resources and clamor for more, even though that money could make a big difference in another local race. New people have a hard time getting the attention of party insiders, and candidates favored by party power brokers may not be the best fit for the local electorate. But based on current results, you have to believe that Californians do better than most.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)None will challenges my rep in DC, or they can forget their career in politics. People here ask, why nobody challenges Feinstein from the left? Then Speaker Brown got a cute rule, as long as you are a democrat in good standing, none will challenge you.
That is also hurting and making people go hmmm but hey, I am as non partisan as they come. Part of the job actually...
And recent scandals will not help either. But they were to be expected.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)really?
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)
Nay
(12,051 posts)he didn't get ONE DIME from any national Dems or from the VA Dem Party, even though he was polling 40% before the election. I won't pretend to know what that's about, but there's quite a few of us who want to get rid of that little prick, and we get no help doing it. I donated to the Dem himself only.
Howie at Down with Tyranny blog has been documenting this for years. Deals were made, lines drawn, & certain R's & conservaDems are protected from challengers.
It makes no sense (unless corruption) & works to the detriment of the country.
Little if any help for Buono and I guarantee the 7th District House Race will be completely ignored.
No money for out of state Democrats for me this cycle - everything goes to the 7th district candidate.
westerebus
(2,978 posts)That's what keeps Cantor pandering to the wingers.
You would think that given the last time the vote was split inside the district and we did have a shot that the party would have stepped up.
Direct to the candidate is the way to go.
Nay
(12,051 posts)funds local and state races that here was a guy who had a good chance. And yes, I gave money straight to the guy. He was canvassing neighborhoods himself.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)They're expressing the frustration of many of us who get 20 to 30 of these every day (in addition to phone calls). I actually GIVE to the DSCC and DCCC, to OFA, and to individual candidates facing difficult races. I have done much on-the-ground electoral work for the party over the years. It's probably why I get contacted so much. But I do find the barrage of guilt-inducing emails that flood my inbox every week, and especially at the end of these quarters, to be not a great way to do business. I feel harangued and besieged, honestly. It's getting to be too much: the more you get the less you read them. I honestly most just delete them without reading because I know there will be another one there again tomorrow ... and tomorrow and tomorrow. They're not worth reading, because they're just donation button vehicles. It really doesn't matter what they say. I just have my own schedule, and as I delete the emails, I say something like this to myself: next week I'll send Tammy Duckworth (or someone else) a little money. I'll go to her website and do it. And I do.
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)"and not one of them says what the Democratic Party will be doing to help the 99%"
If you are a long time member of this board, and you don't know what the Democratic Party has been doing to help the 99% then maybe you aren't really what you say you are.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)But those are the same ones who bash everything, or who are agent provocateurs, or who never vote or do anything themselves--they just complain and throw around slogans. There's a contest going on here for who can get the most attention by ratcheting up the level of hyperbole and invective. There is no hope for them. It's jibber jabber, and I pity the fools.
But there were a lot of people on that thread who are really just tired of getting a barrage of emails asking for donations every day.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)
muriel_volestrangler
(105,496 posts)"If you are a long time member of this board, and you don't know what the Democratic Party has been doing to help the 99%" - these messages are not targeted at DUers. They're sent to general people who might be supporters. What the other thread said, obviously, was that the message of just "we're not Republicans" is not energising.
But you want to make this divisive - first starting this thread to attack a DUer, and then coming out with this crap - "maybe you aren't really what you say you are". WTF? Stop bashing DUers. You are making DU suck today.
Hekate
(100,131 posts)But I think you knew that already
Hekate
(100,131 posts)
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)than snail mail.It's saved thousands in costs. I realize they can get annoying,but they must work.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)if people get annoyed enough.
Around 11 pm last night (Sunday), I cleared out the emails in my inbox that had come since 6 pm (when I had to go out for the evening). I'd had more than 30 donation requests since Saturday. By 9 am this morning I had 12 more urgent donation requests. And I already made several donations during this past week. It's almost like, if you give something, they will triple the number of emails they send asking for more, and sell your name to ten more organizations and politicians. Then you feel like they don't appreciate you and are taking your support for granted.
It's sort of reminding me of the time we won a year's supply of Oreo cookies--only thing I've ever won in my life (a scratch-off ticket in a bag of cookies). My kids were ecstatic. The first quarterly shipment came and the first bag of Oreos was relished. The second bag lingered for a few weeks, and by the third, we ended up taking 18 bags of cookies to the food shelf. No one in my family ever wanted an Oreo cookie again. Moral: you can OD on too much of a good thing.
I realize that they need to raise money; I'm willing to give to the extent I can. But I wish we could work toward fully public funding of campaigns. It's getting out of control.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)I always wondered about the logistics of a years worth of anything,now I know.
Hekate
(100,131 posts)"Too many emails."
I'm still subscribed to OFA and Obama at the White House, plus the locals: Dem Party, Dem Service Club, and Dem Women. Also I am now pretty careful about looking for a box to check that says "no emails" when I sign petitions online.
I highly recommend this.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)And I lost my monocle so please take care not to step on it.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)
FSogol
(47,518 posts)
Turbineguy
(39,797 posts)need all the help they can get.
mrchips
(97 posts)You are part of the solution or you are part of the problem. Make a choice!
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Seems like there is at least one of these OPs per day.
"it's not just Obama, but the Democratic Party that's being bashed here?" If someone bashes Pres Obama or the Democratic party here, it should be alerted on or at least addressed in the thread where it happens. These generalized statements about how bad some DU posters are, arent helping our chances in the upcoming election. We should all try to stick to discussing issues and not other DU posters.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)They MADE it personal long ago.
Wave those cheerleading pom poms or you are the ENEMY!
That's their criteria.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)corruption, the USPS doing banking, etc.
Another OP http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4756673 stated, ""Provide an alternative for America that is populist, fresh, compelling. Eschew the third way, the mushy middle. Stand FOR something." I added, "Wallowing in personal adulation is counter-productive."
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)which has become non-existent on DU.
I do believe our critical thinkers have moved on to somewhere else and left DU to the Facebook teenagers.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)figures you would have something to say!
"No one better have anything to say about my Democrat Bashing on Democratic Underground"
Spazito
(55,240 posts)don't understand how to manage their e-mail account, don't know how to block unwanted e-mail senders and, instead, rail against e-mails they could easily stop.
It makes me think those who post about their unhappiness definitely have another agenda than simply expressing frustration, one your OP expresses quite well, one of "trying to undermine the morale of many good people" at a time when enthusiasm and activism is most needed.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)when you are a wolf in sheep's clothing and you start getting Democratic emails....some of your friends and family might discover them in your inbox and think "gasp" you are one!
riqster
(13,986 posts)It is easy to manage spam. Anyone bitching about this is either tech-challenged (forgivable), or trying to depress turnout (not forgivable).
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)a few dollars here and there on a continuing basis, then delete the rest and let it fill up again. It's just so easy to auto-route them to a folder. I get hundreds of emails a day from various valid sources, I'd be working 7x48 to trying to do a one-by-one routine.
Spazito
(55,240 posts)and if I want to donate only to one candidate but don't want the e-mails, I simply go to their website, donate and read what's happening to keep updated. It could not be simpler, imo, even for someone who isn't tech-savvy, someone like me who is not tech-savvy at all.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)
Bobbie Jo
(14,344 posts)An old standby to rally around the *Democrats Suck* sentiment.
Recycled material, etc....
Spazito
(55,240 posts)as is the ramping up of the "complaints" about Democrats and the Democratic Party when a mid-term election is in the offing. Just a coincidence I am sure.
Stonepounder
(4,033 posts)In the last 5 days I have had 12 different emails asking for donations, all from BarackObama.com, but with a different person supposedly sending the email. Every now and then there is something from BarackObama.com that isn't asking me for money and actually says something that I am interested in.
It really isn't all that easy to figure out filtering rules. I can't just say "If the text contains "Suggested Amount"' dump it in the Spam folder
I put up a post here that was roundly condemned and this OP is also critical of what I said, whether the author even reead my post or not is irrelevant. I was frustrated and pissed about all the spam asking for money and the doom and gloom tone of so many of them - "If we don't raise $xxx by midnight tomorrow we're doomed". My frustration is more with the absolute fact that he who raises the most money usually wins than with the pleading.
Unfortunately, our system of government is totally and, perhaps, irrevocably broken. If you consider that one Representative has to 'represent' (on average) 1,000,000 people and a Senator can represent as many as 20,000,000 people it is just nuts. A single Senator can block any Presidential nominee for any position. And so on.
Will I work to elect Progressive candidates? Of course I will. Am I allowed to express frustration with how things are going? Well, apparently some people think that anyone who vents their frustration here is simply a Right Wing Troll and that the only way we can win elections is to never criticize anything the Democrats do.
Sorry. As Teddy Roosevelt said: "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." I would modify that to change 'president' to 'party'. Just because I bitch and carp at times does not make me a Troll or a defeatist.
Spazito
(55,240 posts)if they are such a nuisance to you. What one receives in one's e-mail is completely within the receiver's control. To complain about them while doing nothing to stop them does seem odd to say the least.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Not recommended for real spam, because it proves your email address is valid. But party fundraisers already know your email is valid.
They also know that continuing to send you requests after you ask them to stop is extremely counterproductive. So they stop.
'Course that would take away something to complain about...
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)1. Hold all people accountable. Don't give people a free pass based on a "D" being behind their name.
2. Do the opposite of 1.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)
These people are children.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)I left the dems over singe payor and the other real issues that are starting to rear their head with the ACA. These issues were pointed out to both former Speaker Pelosi and President Obama at the time. They were also pointed out to then Leader Boehner. I do not intend to sign back up. As a reporter I remain non committal to either party. Given that these days I cover politics and policy, and wild fires, I cannot ...and I actually read the crap they put out. Some light afternoon reading, really.
Doing such makes me even less likely to join either party. Both,yes both, have huge blind spots and this belief that the other side is evil. That is a problem since both have to work with the other evil side when they actually get elected and working with evil people is not possible on a moral basis. At the city level, even the supervisor level, they more or less do. At the legislative level, it breaks down. Do not start me with DC. So it's time, for actually both parties to stop this shit.
And yes, at the DC level both Leader Mitch McConnel and Speaker John Boehner have a tad more of guilt over this, defending right flanks is never pleasant, and both men are far more rational than their right flank. Alas they cannot appear to be, something about politics being local and yes, potholes. But your side is not precisely without guilt and pure as a lamb either.
That is what is driving this frustration with both parties. That is the problem. I expect this not to make sense to the partisans who believe the other side us evil, but this is one of the things repelling voters and even rank and file party members. Think about it.
maddezmom
(135,060 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)I suspect that you're referring to my post from last night:
At least they could *try*
I just added the following to it, in case it wasn't clear:
Update Let me be crystal clear here: I'm highly in favor in fundraising, and in contributing - I give to candidates, including Elizabeth Warren (of course) and Barack Obama. What I'm against is playing defense instead of offense, of selling a political party like this:
muriel_volestrangler
(105,496 posts)and I thought the emails from Warren and Dean that were posted reinforced your point - I actually thought the people posting them were agreeing with you, that everything that comes from Democrats is only saying "we're not the Republicans - send us money because they get loads from rich evil bastards". OK, that was naive of me - the DUers posting those actually thought they were rebutting your OP, because ... .
It seems to me (sitting outside the USA, and thus immune to the begging emails) that a positive message is needed, as well as "stop the Kochs from buying Congress". Ask people to give money, and they need something to be optimistic about.
DrewFlorida
(1,096 posts)
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)I've given plenty to the party over the years, but I admit I'm a little tired of their constant panhandling too. Sorry.
sharp_stick
(14,400 posts)Since I decided to quit giving the same assholes a chance with a quarterly emptying of the filters just to put them right back in my DU experience is a lot less bullshit oriented.
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)They go like this:
There's nothing in those emails that say anything about how to stop Republicans, except for giving more money to Democrats. There's nothing in those emails that say what Democrats are going to do to stop Republicans. It's akin to talking about white privilege or rape culture. Instead of discussing ways those two problems can be remedied, many here would rather just point out that it exists. Repeatedly.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)"...but STOP SAYING STUFF I DISAGREE WITH!"
uponit7771
(93,469 posts)
LibDemAlways
(15,139 posts)and give what you can, you end up on numerous mailing lists and are bombarded so frequently and thoroughly that you are potentially turned off to ever giving again.. And Manny is right. The tone is wrong. It isn't here's how your contribution is helping the 99%. It's give or the R's will shoot your dog - figuratively speaking of course. Manny's pointing that out is not Dem bashing. It's criticism of the approach.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)sent our way, and instead of being annoyed, we should be begging for more! 
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)interesting that a Dem site cannot coalesce behind it's own party, until the board rules of engagment require it to be so.
eta...a fix
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Everyone on DU is critical of Democrats, some criticize elected officials and the rest just harangue other Democratic voters.
Do you really think that constant attacking of voters motivates those voters?
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)This OP is a classic example of complaining about DU. This TOS rule is what makes DU so great, and not just an echo chamber for the party:
Bobbie Jo
(14,344 posts)any credibility in the expressing "disappointment" department, particularly if that's ALL they EVER do here.
I suspect that DU'ers will continue to point this out while others are taking advantage of the loose TOS guidelines.
Peacetrain
(24,279 posts)Adelson money etc etc etc. Oh I get the donation requests constantly.. and if I can't donate they just get deleted.. I cannot always contribute.. I do not have those kinds of funds..but anyone who is coming after the Democratic Party for trying to raise money in such an environment as we have now, I do not understand at all..
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)It's the content of their fundraising letters that exude fear and offer no reason why a person should vote Democratic. It's a sure way to lose the election, IMHO.
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game. -Existenz[/center][/font][hr]
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)Expressing it here as well will encourage more to do the same.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Both sides do the vote for me, the other side is evil. This is starting to backfire on both sides. Given the gerrymandering advantage, the GOP will not feel it as much. But this is becoming quite tiresome and voters are leaving both parties in droves
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)TheSarcastinator
(854 posts)...and any time anyone says "you shouldn't criticize 'X'", that means you should do exactly that. Sorry, but dissent and debate (and yes, even harsh critique) are what democracy is all about.
If the Democratic party is correct in their stance on a specific issue, that position can withstand criticism. That sting means the argument scored points.
You do yourself no favors at all by sounding like Sen. Joe McCarthy with the whole "subversion" nonsense, by the way. Even having that in your post indicates to me that your position, like that of the aforementioned Subversive-Commie Hunter Joe, is based on fear.
LiberalFighter
(53,544 posts)This is intended to those that are not happy with outcomes. There are legitimate complaints but it helps more to work within as much as possible to make the changes.
They need to consider other options that mash with their goals. If they want to increase the odds that their contributions will make the difference they want they should consider donating at different levels. That is instead of the DNC consider doing so at the state or local party level. Or to specific candidates. They can also make their voice heard more if they are active as volunteers or participants at different levels. Attend local and state functions such as fundraisers as well as state or other conventions in which their views are heard at a one to one level.
Help find good candidates. It would be nice to find good candidates at the higher levels such as a state-wide or federal level. But it helps a lot to groom candidates that start more at the local level with the goal of those showing their qualifications move up the ladder.
flamingdem
(40,781 posts)and was ignored.
You have to wonder why things are so different now than previously.
mopinko
(73,255 posts)i believe at one time we were promised that at some point the constant carpers would be deemed to be working for the other side, and subject to banning.
so, how's that working out? yeah…..
really, this place is for democrats. if you hate the pres, and hate the party, there is another place for you.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)(1) by harping and complaining?
(2) encouraging and supporting a candidate?
two very different aspects of the same coin. Two very different sets of activism. Just getting very tired of #1 to the exclusion of #2.
IkeRepublican
(406 posts)99% of the individuals here will make it to the polls this year and will vote Dem. Just because they're disappointed with some aspects does not automatically mean they're going to stay home or go full teatard.
Besides, a forum is a place to discuss differences. If everybody nodded yes to every single thing, this place would lose members faster than Reagan not being able to recall - a spin off forum would crop up and put the final coffin nails into this one.
So cut the "With us or against us" tripe. There's tens of thousands of wingnut forums that can accommodate that sort of policy. Also know that keeping a forum maintained is a TON of work. To add on petty grievances to that, in my view, is nothing sort of selfish.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,454 posts)
Vote for Democrats
"...........Everyone here on DU needs to work together to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of American government. If you are bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for our candidates during election season, we'll assume you are rooting for the other side."
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Lasher
(29,371 posts)No whining about DU.