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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBoston firefighters dig through ashes to find fallen comrade's wedding ring
Boston firefighters sifting through the ashes of a burned-out building found the wedding ring of Lt. Edward Walsh, a colleague who died there last week, and then rushed to Walsh's wake to present it to his widow.
“Four of us had sifters, and we just got scoops," Patty Donovan, one of the firefighters, told WCVB-TV. "You just go through it slowly, scoop after scoop, with your hands."
Walsh, 43, and another firefighter, 33-year-old Michael Kennedy, died while battling the nine-alarm blaze on Beacon Street. Officials say they were trapped in the basement as the wind-fueled fire ripped through the brownstone in Boston's Back Bay.
Donovan said firefighters had already searched the firehouse for Walsh's wedding band and were back at the scene when they discovered the ring among the charred debris. The group then scrambled to get to Walsh's wake at St. Patrick Parish in Watertown, Mass., where mourners had already gathered.
https://news.yahoo.com/boston-firefighter-ring-154336878.html
PAT GREENHOUSE/GLOBE STAFF
The nephew of Lt. Edward Walsh waved to firefighters lining a Watertown street before the funeral.
Firefighters were reflected in the windows of a bus during the procession.
Thousands of firefighters lined a Watertown street for the funeral of Boston Fire Lt. Edward J. Walsh.
The casket made its way to the church atop a fire engine.
More:http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/04/02/lieutenant-edward-walsh-remembered-gentle-giant-who-led-charge-into-burning-buildings/kwq3XmjuP8FeHWoZcdcNDN/picture.html
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lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Should employers, i.e. logging companies, be required to pay them for their attendance?
sheshe2
(95,522 posts)Ever be found burnt to death, trapped in a basement when rushing to do my job. That job was the firefighters. They made sure people were safe and attempted to contain a fire in high winds that could have taken out a city block. Two firefighters died doing that job.
As for being required to pay employees to be there? Have ever heard of a day off? Have you never attended a funeral of a friend? You request the day off without pay if you are working that day. I have no idea why you wish to dump on a ceremony honoring two of our first responders, but you do.
Sorry, we in Boston honor our own. You don't like it, that's your problem.
sheshe2
(95,522 posts) 
calimary
(88,831 posts)
It also occurs to me that firefighters are among the public employees who, as we've seen, are the first to be dumped on by politicians like the scott walkers of the world, taking away their benefits and nickel-and-diming them on their pay and retirement programs. They put their lives on the line for people who don't appreciate it and quibble about their taxes being raised by a buck-98 to cover social/civic essentials like public employees services.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)You can look at the list yourself, but this rate is quite a bit less than commercial fishing (203.6), logging (65), pilots (59) or truck drivers (20.2) or garbage collectors (26.5)
It is however, comparable to first line managers of retail sales workers (3.8) or auto service technicians and mechanics (5.4) or people who manufacture plastic and rubber products (4.3) or all men (5.7)
That last is intriguing. Firefighting is 25% safer than the job the average man holds.
I think we do too little to pay respects to anyone who dies on the job, and I think we should consider all of them "our own".
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)or all men.
When others ran out of seafood... they reeled in the crab pots.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Nice. Let's save this for posterity, shall we?
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Knock yourself out.
I could save your concern for all men for posterity but you have plenty of that to go around.
Logical
(22,457 posts)sheshe2
(95,522 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I imagine that should a group of coal miners perish there will indeed be posters questioning any memorializing done for them (much as was done for the firefighters); however, we have no reason to believe it would be the poster you're responding to... as memorializing the death of one certainly does not deny that same to another. 
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)and then got YOU got upset because someone pointed it out.
Rex
(65,616 posts)nt.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)
We mourn all deaths but some sacrifice their lives in the service and protection of others and should be respected and acknowledged as such. Too bad that other poster cannot see the difference.
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,847 posts)sheshe2
(95,522 posts)snip
They are the somber rituals honoring firefighters killed in the line of duty, which are playing out in dramatic succession across Boston right now, reflecting a profession steeped in tradition and a brotherhood accustomed to losing its own, firefighters said.
The customs draw partly on the Irish heritage and military backgrounds that have long suffused firefighting ranks nationally, according to firefighters and historians, and many of the rituals are standardized: the black shroud across the uniform badges, posting of the honor guard, even the seating order at the funeral.
snip
In the Back Bay Wednesday night, the removal of Walsh’s body was a profound moment. After a fireball washed over the two firefighters in the ground-level basement at 298 Beacon St., an extraction team removed Kennedy at about 3 p.m. and began chest compressions while rushing him to the hospital, fire officials said. But fire was so intense that firefighters had to leave Walsh’s body in place for four hours as they tried to extinguish the fire amid a ferocious wind. When the extraction team went back in, the roof was gone, and the compromised walls were in danger of collapsing, a scene imprinted on the memory of Mayor Martin J. Walsh.
“I watched the men and women go into that building and retrieve their brother as the top floor of that building lit up,” he said. “I watched the brave men and women of our Fire Department go into that building and retrieve one of their own.”
snip
Members of Lieutenant Walsh’s Boylston Street firehouse, Ladder 15 and Engine 33, met the extraction team in back of the building, placed Walsh’s body in a rescue basket, and draped him with American flags before carrying him down a narrow pathway and over a fence separating the back alley from Storrow Drive below, where an ambulance waited. Dozens of firefighters formed a line along the fence, saluting as Walsh’s body passed.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/03/28/fire-department-engages-solemn-rituals-mourning-their-its-own/5KQ4O2ktmh06ysLJAiJkAO/story.html
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)
DaveJ
(5,023 posts)I know what it's like swimming upstream against prerequisite behavior, where the common sense of your point is ignored in favor of group think. It's rare that anyone here sides with someone as they're being persecuted, so I try to say 'I agree' whenever I see a chance.
Not only are other jobs dangerous, but unhealthy as well. An office worker is forced to sit at a desk and often commute lengthy distances to work, the sedentary lifestyle can be torturous to the body, and in most cases there is no comfortable pension at the end of it all but instead destitution in retirement.
The topic of firefighters is interesting because truly, their job involves being exposed to a lot of chaos. Many are also paramedics and clean up after suicides and need to be able to respond to people dying in their community, and every other type of odd occurrence. But I would supposed most of them chose the job because it involves being paid; for example, my father in law was a fireman for less than 20 years (btw, also a republican) and now has a pension for the rest of his life that is over $80k. He didn't say "I want to be a hero," he said he specifically wanted a job where he could easily retire young. I would want to continue the practice of paying people well enough to retire, and paying the respect of lavish funerals to honor each and everyone's noble lives, not just because they are heros, but because they are human, and it's what (almost) everyone deserves.
RandoLoodie
(133 posts)when cops or firefighters die.
It's not just a "Boston" thing
MissDeeds
(7,499 posts)Thank you for saying it.
Logical
(22,457 posts)
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)Firefighters work (and potentially risk their lives) for the public, not a private company.
That said, all deaths are tragic, whether one works for the public or private sector.
~Thank you.
JJChambers
(1,115 posts)Same with police and military funerals.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)is rather shocking in its callousness.
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)You're really saying to stop these funerals.
Whatever. You're in a pretty small boat there but it looks like you'll have at least one other person help you row. Maybe more - the night is young.
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)I'm saying it's up to the farmers and fishermen to arrange for the same turnout at their funerals as the firefighters do. They haven't to my knowledge - so why complain about the ones who do?
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)I'd be happy to rec a thread to the fallen fisherman.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)meaning and value in modern society.
If a farmer died, the community would band together and get his crops in and help the field hands get fed.
Firefighters are very much a community and feel a bond with each other. They feel a bond of brotherhood with others who have faced similar danger.
So I think that's part of what's doing on.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)look in the mirror sometime.
you ruined a thread about honoring someone killed while doing their job.
and worse? you're acting pouty like you're the victim.
spare us all and take a break.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)The hyperbolic outrage at the suggestion illustrates a really shameful degree of bias.
So far, only one poster has even tried to answer the question. His response: yes, if it is included in their bargaining agreement.
kcr
(15,522 posts)Not one bit
VScott
(774 posts)not even the military.
How many occupations can you name where one knows the names and family members of their coworkers?
Attends their weddings, wakes and funerals?
Gets together a few times a year for barbeques, party's and simple relaxation?
How many really take care of their own?
Very few of those in attendance (out of over 5,000 FF's), were "on the clock".
Of those that were, they were upper echelon brass, or Boston FF's whose duty stations were covered by outside FF's who did so on their own free time.
95% (or more), came from as far as CA, Il, FL, TX and other far away places (Costa Rica, Australia), on their own time and dime (if not paid for by their union).
Loyalty, tradition, camaraderie, "I got your back", is what makes a firefighter a firefighter.
juxtaposed
(2,778 posts)this together.
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)Firefighters and police traditionally turn out in force for a fallen comrade's funeral. In NYC after 9/11 there were many weeks of clogged traffic on Fifth Avenue due to the large turnout of firefighters from all over at firefighter funerals at St. Patrick's Cathedral. Seems to me it's up to the loggers, fishermen, members of whatever category of work who die on the job, to do the same if they wish. If they don't there is no reason at all to find fault with those who do. I do not understand why you would nitpick about this.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Some workers are more disposable than others. Obviously.
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)you want into what I wrote. But rest assured, you will be wrong. You are missing my point by a country mile. The firefighters organize the funerals, so the loggers for example, have to organize their funerals like the firefighters do if that's what they want. If you're a lumberjack like your screen name suggests, maybe you should get yourself busy organizing just that instead of venting frustration here.
BeyondGeography
(40,791 posts)Stop using it to make a negative point about mankind. Put a bowl of corn flakes out on this board and someone will find a way to piss in it.
sheshe2
(95,522 posts)You are making up your own story and sticking to it.
Here in Boston we are approaching the first anniversary of The Boston Marathon bombing. We still suffer the shock and loss that we saw that day. People died needlessly from two bombs that were planted to create the massive injuries. People lost their limbs! There are few people here that did not have friend or family there that day. As a community, we came together to grieve. Just as the families and coworkers of the firefighters did.
We honored them because they rushed in to save lives in that fire, just like they did after the bombing.
Every life is important, we all grieve differently and sometimes silently.
WillowTree
(5,348 posts)......why don't you and others in your line of work honor your fallen comrades as nobly and honorably as police and firefighters do? I mean, now that you mention it, I think it's shameful that loggers and fishermen and farmers and dry cleaners and hairdressers and on and on and on are so cavalier about the deaths of those with whom they work.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)IronGate
(2,186 posts)I remember when Captain Phil of Deadliest Catch died, they did a nice tribute to him.
bluestate10
(10,942 posts)There is absolutely no comparison between what most workers face daily and what firefighters face. Most of us don't risk dying when we check in at work.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)not too long ago, someone attempted to argue that being a cop was not a dangerous job. They cited to occupational death numbers ... unbelievable this place can be at times.
ETA: Come to think of it ... it was the same guy!
dionysus
(26,467 posts)sounds like something a re
would say 
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)Pretending to be innocent with the, 'golly gee why doesn't every boss do that' is weak and everyone noticed.
we can do it
(12,979 posts)Nice job.... how do you even compare someone losing their life helping others to greedy bastard logging companies looting our national forests for profit?
mtnester
(8,885 posts)Star Member lumberjack_jeff (27,870 posts)
43. a) you have no idea.
b) I've also never had a job in which I'm paid to sleep.
Stonepounder
(4,033 posts)I worked for a software company that provided software to hospitals. Our contract guaranteed 99.9% uptime (excluding scheduled downtime). Those of us on the support team rotated being on-call. We got a 10% salary bonus for each week of on-call. But it also meant that we had to be able to respond to a page within 10 minutes and be logged onto the customer site within 30 minutes 24x7. Some weeks we didn't have any pages, so we got paid the 10% for getting 8 hours sleep per night. Other weeks we would put in 80-100 hours during the week. So we got the 10% bonus for staying awake. And, no, I don't recall anyone getting killed for sitting at a computer terminal.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts) lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)b) I've also never had a job in which I'm paid to sleep.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)cyberswede
(26,117 posts)I must have expressed myself badly.
I was expressing my shock that you would say something as offensive as "I've also never had a job in which I'm paid to sleep."
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)I'm intrigued at the degree of defensiveness from a group of people who have such a widely-held disdain for cops (a job that is roughly twice as dangerous), and who generally ARE the first responders.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)It's apples an oranges.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)Whether they die due to violence or accident.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)...and police officers don't usually work 24 hour shifts.
I have no idea what the person to whom you replied thinks of cops, but I believe s/he was referring to firefighters who run into burning buildings. If police officers do the same (without protective gear), then they're probably brave and definitely unwise.
Personally, I have no disdain for cops; I have close relatives who are police officers.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)I wish that all occupations could take safety as seriously as firefighting does. There's no good reason for the fact that an auto mechanic is more likely to die on the job than a firefighter, nor is there a good reason for a lesser degree of mourning of their death.
Perhaps if dangerous occupations treated worker funerals as solemnly as firefighter funerals, those jobs would become as safe.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)If you feel that way, you should delete your initial post.
I'd love to see the comparison data on ff and auto mechanics.
Gotta link to that
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)My initial post said essentially what I just said. I have no control over the stuff that you read between the lines.
Firefighting as an efficiently run public service is a different topic to the disproportionate reaction to the death of a worker in one occupation relative to another.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)First of all. Ff are an irregular hourly class which skews the entire study.
Second how about data at scene.
Auto mechanics have cars coming in all day. Ff might go a week without a 'job'. BUT, if one calculated all the hours both at scene and drilling, I imagine the results would be quite different.
Plus what is the data of fatalities due to worker error, faulty equipment, etc and, you know, the ceiling falling on you.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Based on 2009 figures, an auto mechanic has 5.4 chances in 100,000 to die on the job this year.
Parsing the numbers, or noting that being "at scene" is riskier than watching ESPN in the station house, are either nitpicking or semantic nonsense.
You're more likely to survive a year as a firefighter (and that would appear to include smoke jumpers) than as an auto mechanic.
As part of a film crew, you should encourage the public to learn the name David Tito Nyombi.
He died on his job as an elevator operator four days before Lt Walsh - in the same neighborhood and no US media has even mentioned his name.
Lt. Walsh's funeral is only germane to the extent that it highlights how little we care about workers in other professions.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)
Skittles
(169,196 posts)that ALONE sets them apart from AUTO MECHANICS
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)every fire they fight is potentially deadly - I don't see the same sustained level of risk for auto mechanics (to use your example).
Every fire is dangerous; every firefighter is performing a public service when they fight a fire, and risking his or her life in the process.
An accidental death in an occupation that is not predicated on risking one's life for every task performed just isn't the same. That said, all workplace deaths are tragic, and safety should definitely be improved.
I don't agree that there's a lesser degree of mourning for the auto mechanic's death - it's just not as public, and doesn't extend to "strangers" who have the same occupation the way it does for firefighters and police. I think this is partly due to the daily risk undertaken by firefighters, for example, which creates a sense of camaraderie and "brotherhood" between others in that profession. I suspect auto mechanics don't have that same sense of fraternity or community with other auto mechanics.
So, firefighters make a big deal when one of their own dies in the line of duty. That doesn't take anything away from others who die while on the job for other occupations. Your original reply in this thread seemed to suggest that you think it does, so that's why you're getting the reactions that you're getting.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)And the fact that your view is the prevailing view is one of the reasons why worker safety for every other occupation is less important.
And you're right. Shops in Ohio don't send their mechanics to join thousands of their peers for the funeral of an auto mechanic crushed under a vehicle in Boston.
Ever heard of David Tito Nyombi? As best I can tell, no one who relies on US news does. He was an elevator operator who died while on the job after falling in an elevator shaft - two days after Lt Walsh died, in the same neighborhood.
But he's not "one of our own".
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)That is, why they don't foster a similar sense of fraternity in their occupations. Similarly, it's up to the group to decide how they honor their fallen comrades.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)unless they get parental rights, in case anyone thought that your efforts to ruin this thread was the action of a reasonable person.
Heather MC (6,444 posts)
26. Then doesn't this also mean a Victim can't sue for child support?
This is a horrible law, but does suspending their parental rights also dissolve their financial responsibility?
I don't know, just asking
29. Yes.
No parental rights = no parental obligations.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4391077
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Last edited Fri Apr 4, 2014, 11:58 AM - Edit history (1)
It's apparent that the buttons are close enough together that you can simultaneously mash both under your little fist.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)if you have posted clueless, tone-deaf BS before, i can point that out when you do it again.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)you made it an opportunity to snipe at firefighter funerals.
i'm surprised you haven't contacted the widow with your complaints.
we can do it
(12,979 posts)Quite often before the cops.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)Alot of FRS are now running Paramedic Engines, where a Paramedic certified Engine Company will respond with an FRS Ambulance to medical calls just in case rescue equipment is needed.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)definitely making DU suck.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)"I've also never had a job in which I'm paid to sleep."
and you'll not just be known for that statement, you'll be known for putting that statement in a thread about a firefighter's funeral.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)43. a) you have no idea.
b) I've also never had a job in which I'm paid to sleep.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)Paid to sleep??? It's called a shift. It's 12 hours. Usually 8 to 8. They work so many days a week and shift to the day shift for so many days a week. They also have families; kids that go to school and a real life that doesn't operate from 8p to 8a.
You cut down trees at 4am.
Sleep is bit exaggerated. Some fire houses like the house of pain in DC have a call every 45 minutes.
If they are sleeping. They deserve it. If that siren goes off. The are dressed and rolling out in 30 seconds. No exaggeration.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)Paint the firehouse while their not saving lives?
They shop, they cook, they drill, the work out and yes they sleep.
I sleep fine knowing they are ready and rested to go.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)We have a volunteer fire department in my town. When there's a fire, everyone has to drive to the fire department, don their gear & hop on the truck, and THEN hit the road on the way to the fire. (As an aside, I appreciate our VFD, and they do a fine job).
I have no problem with firefighters who work long shifts getting necessary sleep when they're able to do so. They're not only paid to fight fires - they're paid to BE READY to go fight fires.
Military personnel are paid even though they have down time - they're paid to BE READY when they're needed.
Your position seems rather anti-worker.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)every 911 medical aid call in my area, the local firefighters are the first ones there.
if you slept the way they "sleep" i doubt you'd be up posting on DU at 7am.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)24 on, 24 off, 24 on, 24 off 24 on, 96 off.
we can do it
(12,979 posts)I've worked 48 straight multiple times in a busy department. Lumberjerk probably gets to eat lunch without jumping up and running out after 2 bites when the bell goes off, and apparently thinks FFs are robots who don't need breaks.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)but the majority do the kelly schedule, I love it.
I've heard there's a few that do a really weird schedule, the Nevada Test Site FD works 56 on and 96 off, Mesquite FD has the same schedule also.
seaglass
(8,185 posts)adjusted to his "new" schedule. For most of his career and when the kids were growing up it was 8a-6p, 8a-6p, 6p-8a, 6p-8a and then however many days off. They fought for years for a 24 hr schedule which I would have appreciated when the kids were younger but not so much now.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)He'll know what that means.
seaglass
(8,185 posts)IronGate
(2,186 posts)seaglass
(8,185 posts)his shift. Probably the young guys really like it because it doesn't take as much for them to bounce back.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)Is it a union house? They can, as we did, change the schedule on their next contract negotiations.
It does get harder and harder as we get older and older. It really is a young person's game for the most part.
seaglass
(8,185 posts)etc., we had a real asshole for a Town Manager and he just wasn't going to agree to it because he knew the union wanted it. Not the first anti-union Dem I've run into. I think most of the FFs like the schedule so it will stay. And my husband is getting close to retirement so not too much longer for him.
Tell you hubby to stay safe, don't eat too much smoke and enjoy retirement when it comes.
I'm not too far away myself.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)
penultimate
(1,110 posts)
I'm still trying to figure out if you're just having fun or not.
Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #43)
seaglass This message was self-deleted by its author.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)my god, you had the first post in this thread about a firefighter's funeral and you used that post to "concern troll" a firefighter's funeral!
and you've destroyed the thread. completely derailed it.
what kind of person does this?
how low.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)turns to the fact that other jobs don't get dalmations to play with.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts) CreekDog
(46,192 posts)wow.
classy.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)Let me give you a description of a typical Firefighter/Paramedic's shift.
Upon arrival at the station, first thing is roll call and Engine/Ambulance assignments, next would be inventory of all apparatus, then washing of all apparatus, cleaning of all apparatus bays.
After that is all done, providing that no calls for fires or medical have gone out, then it's training, either classroom or practicals, after that, if lucky, lunch, which, along with dinner is missed many times due to emergencies.
After training, then Engine companies will load up and go to various businesses to do safety inspections or check the water hydrants, IE: condition, pressure....., again, only if no emergencies.
After that, then maybe dinner will be served.
Personal time will usually start at 7:00-8:00 pm, again, if lucky.
Bed time is usually around 10:00 but the chances of getting a full nights sleep is usually rare due to, again, emergency calls.
And then, if after a fire, all apparatus have to be cleaned, restocked, no matter the time.
And then there are the reports that have to be written, clearly and concisely because these are legal documents.
On more thing, if someone calls off and no one volunteers for their shift, there's this thing called force hire in which someone is told they have to cover the shift, it's in most union contracts, so a Firefighter/Paramedic may work up to 48 hours on duty, on the rare occasion, 72 hours.
So, don't pretend that a Firefighter gets paid to sleep.
Also, alot of Fire Dept. are Urban/Wildland interfaced, and have to go through the BLM Wildland Training program to get their Red Card.
sheshe2
(95,522 posts)Welcome to DU, glad you are here.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)Most have no idea what it takes to be a FF/Para.
Gracias for the welcome.
we can do it
(12,979 posts)IronGate
(2,186 posts)Last edited Fri Apr 11, 2014, 10:33 AM - Edit history (1)
Most people have no idea of what it takes to even become a Firefighter, just to get into the academy, usually a cadet has to carry about 80# of coiled hose up several flights of stairs in full turnout gear with SCBA equipment on, then drag a fully charged hose 100 feet in a set time, carry a Rescue Randy a certain distance in a set time, remove a ladder from an Engine, carry it to a building, set it up properly, bring it back down properly, carry it back to the Engine and secure it in a set time, there are several other evolutions also, all the while in full turnouts and SCBA, then there are the written tests, oral board, and that's just to be considered for the academy.
If a cadet gets past all that, then they enter a 2-3 month academy, depending upon the FRS, and that's when the real tough training starts, it's much like a Marine boot camp.
we can do it
(12,979 posts)Working fires are extremely hot and pitch black inside even in broad daylight. You can't see if something is about to fall on you or where you are going.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)And then there's always the risk of flashover, backdraft, direct fire impingment......
It's a tough, dirty, dangerous job not meant for everyone.
I took my Paramedic course at USC, if we failed 3 tests, we were out.
we can do it
(12,979 posts)
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)a) were you not paid? or,
b) did you not sleep?
Preparedness and worker health are improved and costs are reduced when changing to 12 hour shifts. Fire service operates in the public interest like any other public service, 24 hour shifts don't do anything for the citizens.
[div class="excerpt" style="margin-left:0; border:3px solid #000066; color:#33000; background:#F1F2F7; width:550px;"]Many firefighters like the current system’s three-day block of free time, which allows them to commute great distances but still spend significant time with family and, in some cases, work other jobs.
The president of the D.C. firefighters union, Edward C. Smith, said Ellerbe's proposal would be "devastating" to union members. "Morale, people's family lives, day care, commuter costs, all sorts of problems," said Smith, a fire captain.
He said Ellerbe "has been floating this idea for a while now," so it comes as no surprise. The union, Local 36 of the International Association of Fire Fighters, has 1,800 members, from firefighters to captains.
"It's going to be a big issue" in upcoming contract negotiations, said Smith, who vowed to fight the proposal vigorously. "I speak for the membership. It's not me personally. The whole membership is against it."
I find it interesting that one persons offhand (and entirely accurate) observation that he's never been paid to sleep is enough for the station chief to override the town's policies to crush the internet miscreant.
I feel like Emperor Palpatine. "Unlimited Power!"
IronGate
(2,186 posts)Between 22:00 and 06:30, we got a total of about 3-4 hours sleep, the rollover took over 2 hours from the alarm to getting back to the House.
Once we got back, it's not like we just fell back into the sack, there was restocking/cleaning the Engine, writing the report, taking another shower, and all this after a fairly busy day.
So, after all this if you want to quibble, then, yes, I was paid to sleep for those oh so few hours.
BTW, where did you get the idea that my Captain overrode city policy? I never said anything like that.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)... it's that you don't get paid to sleep soundly. Thanks for the clarification.
Firefighters who work 12 hour shifts can sleep soundly in their own beds. But then, like the rest of us, they have to get up and do it again the following day. As you've observed in this thread, firefighters work predominately 24 hour shifts because they prefer it.
Re: your captain. Point taken. Most government employees with whom I'm familiar have a prohibition on using the municipal internet for personal use. For instance, had a teacher reported to the principal that some guy on the internet was complaining that "teachers get paid to take the summer off", the principal might have theoretically authorized her to blog about her day to combat the existential threat posed by omnipotent internet guy and his factual albeit impolitic statements.
... or she might have suggested the teacher grow a thicker skin, I suppose.
I'm glad you blogged about your day, I found it interesting, even if your entire express intent was one giant "nuh-uh!" callout directed at me.
But work is work. All workers; lawyers, cops, fishermen, trash collectors, teachers, nurses... they all deserve respect, valuation, safety, care and appropriate pay, and in return demands professionalism, work ethic, customer service, attention and conscience.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)it was to highlight a typical day in the life of a FF/Para.
As I said before, I don't view my job any more important than any other job, one is just as important as the other.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Then we're good.
we can do it
(12,979 posts)rudolph the red
(666 posts)Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)TB: rampant in San Francisco among other cities
LA turf fires. Ie, gangs torch stash houses. Ff's show up to put them out. They get shot at for doing their job.
High rise projects. Often the elevators are out of service. Very typical call. How are they rewarded. They get dirty diapers dropped on them. Burning trash. Someone threw a fucking bike off a balcony. We had to get into suv's nearly driven into the foyer to get back to the truck.
penultimate
(1,110 posts)Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)I did series on them. Most access ever granted to a TV crew. I was third in after the can man and the cameraman.
4 months. A number of cities. Slept in the bay next to the truck. Wrecked more gear than the equipment houses could keep up with. Great experience. But REAL.
second call, first day. Fatality. On camera.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)At the time, most money I ever made 
penultimate
(1,110 posts)Would you say your job is pretty much obsolete now that everyone has high resolution camera phones? 
Being a firefighter in a large city is a tough gig. May I ask what you were filming for and what city? (if you wanna keep that private, I fully understand. I too try to avoid giving out information that could point to the real world me)
I recently watched that documentary called Burn on netflix about a Detroit firehouse, and it was very interesting.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)It's made the sound position a bit more lucrative as now we rent recorders nearly universally, as well as, mics, mixers, etc.
TV can look anyway anyone wants, but the difference between tv and a home movie is sound recording.
I'm going to the keep the show title to myself, but it's out there these days on the intergoogle. We shot in and around NYC, Boston, DC, LA, SF, Dallas and Newark. Yes Newark. Scariest day of my life (at the time) was in Newark.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)Do most work 24 on/48 hour off shifts?
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)I was initial typing with fury. Our shifts were 12 on 12 off 8 to 8
They are mostly 24 on 48 off. But there is a lot of covering and swapping.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)I only ask because I am familiar with AZ FFs and many do have second jobs and side jobs and I often thought that they are not getting enough rest and/or "downtime".
Your thoughts?
And I didn't mean to hijack the thread.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)But by no means by you.
In my experience about half of ff I've met have other means of income but most of those through capital gains not necessarily wages.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)I don't know about other states, but in AZ, you really have to "know someone" to get into the Training Academy. It is a highly sought after job/career. Don't get me wrong, one has to be highly qualified, but....
Why do you think this is? Because of the prestige? The hero worship? The ability to have 2 jobs? The ability to retire early and keep up with the second job? Or do some just really care? Maybe a dream from childhood.
I knew one of the kids that died in the Yarnell fire. Those hotshots, IMHO, are a different breed. I was at a funeral. It was heart wrenching.
Anyway, I am not trying to sound like an ass, but I've seen a lot of this firsthand and am curious about what you think or what you have discovered.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)I knew one guy that had been saved as a child. No other connection. Tragically he was killed on 9/11
Others I've met are attracted to all the reasons you state. Which is fine with me, because all you've got to do is risk life and health daily.
But most I've found are like any other profession. Family business. Cops, fire fighters, plumbers, politicians, media and tv for examples. 'Dad did it, his dad and the like.'
That's been my experience.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)The "family business" thing isn't too prevalent in AZ, but I'm sure it is in the bigger East Coast cities.
Thanks for the info.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)'Nicest guy in the FDNY'
So true. Kevin was one of the finest human beings I ever met.
http://longisland.newsday.com/911-anniversary/victims/Kevin-ORourke
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)As a videographer, you therefore fall within the classification of "Performing arts, spectator sports, and related industries". The 2009 fatality rate of people in your occupational category is 6.5, roughly 50% higher than firefighters.
http://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/cfoi_rates_2009hb.pdf
So I take it back, your job is comparatively dangerous.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)I'm a union location sound recordist.
And yes, the job can be dangerous, like when say doing a series on fire fighters.
Have you deleted your post yet?
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)But I appreciate the levity
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I like the way you kept building the sarcasm throughout the thread instead of just giving in. Some duers need to learn that when someone makes a claim that is completely absurd, then goes even more absurd, that they are having their chains pulled. Well done on getting a rise out of individuals with your sarcastic absurdity.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)cyberswede
(26,117 posts)...if that's what he was doing. 
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Performing mental gymnastics in order to believe this persons words aren't their true thoughts.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)Learned something new today, I did!
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)More workers should be treated like valued individuals rather than widgets.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Personally, I'd say yes.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)
FSogol
(47,510 posts) Codeine
(25,586 posts)then why not? Firefighters have a long and proud tradition of becoming something akin to family to each other. Few other jobs have created and nurtured that sort of relationship.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)"Do all dead workers deserve this degree of public (in both senses of the words) tribute?"
"No"
"Why not?"
"Because they're not firemen."
The question is offensive because the honest answer to it is even more offensive.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Disingenuous much? You're usually not nearly so unrelentingly obnoxious and obtuse, dude. I didn't disagree with you and you came back attributing a bunch of crap to me that I didn't imply in any way. Dial it down.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)I apologize for being unclear. I replied to your post because it happened to be the most recent.
Starry Messenger
(32,379 posts)Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #1)
Renew Deal This message was self-deleted by its author.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)There's no need to post a new thread, because it seems I've inherited this one.
There is no such thing as an offensive question, only offensive answers.
In response to my question, pick one:
a) only firefighters deserve this degree of respect when they die on the job.
b) every worker does.
c) no one does.
I choose b. Anyone who thinks this makes me a terrible person lacks standing to be a judge.
Renew Deal
(84,641 posts)What kind of person sees a picture of a kid who just lost his father and gets jealous?
My problem with you isn't that you asked the question, it's that you chose to hijack this thread to do it.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)The answer to your question is "I wouldn't know".
People who consider the implications of their answer (the lives of some workers are more important than others) get squirmy and would rather blame me for asking the question.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)Dying in an unpredictable accident, or circumstances beyond your control, is tragic, but not necessarily heroic; dying as a result of having knowingly and deliberately risked your life for something worthwhile deserves special honour.
jmowreader
(52,858 posts)Especially if the person's death was preventable.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)and then came back here to the turd in the punch bowl.
sheshe2
(95,522 posts)I had a good cry when I posted them. The link has some heartbreaking images.
That first and only response for hours hurt.
Thank you again~
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)I only saw this when you responded.
My brother in-law was close friends with him. I would have cried anyway.
sheshe2
(95,522 posts)I feel such deep sorrow for his death.
My sympathies to you and yours.
we can do it
(12,979 posts)
Cha
(316,398 posts)Beautiful Tribute to their fallen comrades. 
sheshe2
(95,522 posts)Thank you Cha.
RIP Edward Walsh and Michael Kennedy~
Thank you, she~
Blue Diadem
(6,597 posts)A city near here lost 2 firefighters a couple months ago as well, killed in a swift moving fire in an apartment building/store front & set by an arsonist. I heard their may day call on the scanner, something I hope to never hear again. There is something about a firefighter, entering something as awful as a burning building, not knowing if they will make it out. Brave souls, a real calling. The pictures break my heart, knowing another city and the families are hurting. May they rest in peace.
marew
(1,588 posts)It is impossible for me to fathom such pettiness and anger. Paid to sleep- what a horrendous statement! They are paid to be on call- to be ready within minutes, if not seconds- to save lives and property.
ismnotwasm
(42,663 posts)K&R
sheshe2
(95,522 posts)Thank you for that, ismnotwasm.
FailureToCommunicate
(14,581 posts)bombing a year ago that is filling the airwaves here in Boston.
Thank you sheshe. (And sorry that your kind thread got highjacked by an insensitive lout)
sheshe2
(95,522 posts)You are Boston? I am the burbs, but we are all Boston.
Yes the marathon approaches and I will go once again to cheer them on. I still shudder at the devastation last year. Many of my friends worked in a building 2 doors down from the second blast. They are still recovering from what they saw. Heartbreaking.
To you and yours FTC. Be well.
FailureToCommunicate
(14,581 posts)I had urged my son to go check out the Marathon since his college is on the Commons. His buddies went over sooner and were hurt in the first blast. My son had been straggling behind and so wasn't there yet when things went all to hell. Of course we didn't know that for about an hour...
And then later that week we woke up to the sounds of the three bombs in nearby Watertown and when I called my brother to see if he knew what was going on, he said he had police going around his house searching for the suspect. We stayed up part of the night on the phone with him as the manhunt roamed on the streets around his apartment.
Can't believe it's been a year since then.
Response to sheshe2 (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
sheshe2
(95,522 posts)Thank You.
Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)are volunteers. Many paid firefighters got their start in volunteer departments. They put their lives at risk for no pay at all.
All firefighters should be lauded.
Thanks for posting these pictures and my condolences to those who lost loved ones in this tragedy and the marathon.
sheshe2
(95,522 posts)