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[itsrobert]

This message was self-deleted by its author (itsrobert) on Tue Apr 8, 2014, 06:01 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[PoliticAverse]

1. A Boeing 777-200ER costs about $261 million dollars.

Even without putting a $ value on lives it is worth a great deal of money to
determine the cause of a crash if it can prevent another one from happening.

[former9thward]

5. The prevention is simple.

Don't put the transponder switch where the pilot can get at it. Then computerize the cockpits and get rid of pilots. If you have a pilot that wants to commit suicide -- how can you prevent that?

[upaloopa]

9. Hey why aren't you a guest on CNN?

You know what happened when all the experts still don't know!

[former9thward]

11. Everyone knows.

But how do you fill up 24/7 airtime with that?

[closeupready]

12. Everyone except upaloopa and I.

I guess we missed that story.

[former9thward]

13. You didn't miss it.

You just don't want to face the fact that a suicidal pilot can take out hundreds of people and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

[upaloopa]

15. So why did he fly so long?

What difference does it make where or when he did it ?

[former9thward]

21. Good question.

I believe the answer is that he wanted to go down in the most remote place he could-- given fuel supply -- so it would be very difficult to find the plane. If you look at the theories it is the only one that fits all the known facts.

[upaloopa]

26. Why did everyone else just go along for the ride?

[former9thward]

34. Thanks to 9/11 the cockpit is now hardened.

Impossible to break in. All the pilot (or co-pilot) has to do is disable the other person. That would be pretty easy especially since the other person would not be expecting it.

[jberryhill]

39. Simple

Then all they need to do is have an emergency kit on the plane for breaking into the hardened cockpit.

Heh.

[former9thward]

43. That would be assuming the crew was willing to defy the pilot.

Or knew what exactly what was happening. If you had a kit outside the cockpit then why have a hardened cockpit? Any terrorist would know he could threaten to kill crew and passengers until he got that kit.

Plus the fact a suicidal pilot could depressurize the passenger cabin and put everyone to sleep. There is only a limited amount of oxygen supplying the masks that fall down.

[brooklynite]

54. Actually the crew CAN open the cockpit door from the outside...

They just won't tell you how, and these days a threat to kill people in the cabin won't have a lot of impact.

[upaloopa]

45. I think I heard that this perticar airline did not have

very good security with respect to the cockpit doors.

[former9thward]

46. Well maybe that is true and maybe not.

But if that is true a pilot would have some warning someone was trying to break in. He could get off a distress signal almost instantly.

[WinkyDink]

66. Because people tend to respect and believe pilots?

[HERVEPA]

47. Genius. Think before you post?

It is not possible to eliminate pilots. They make decisions you know.

[former9thward]

49. Genius -- you are not.

Plenty of planes fly without pilots. We call them drones and they do just fine. Most of plane flying is done by computer. Airlines have pilots because 1) they are required to and 2) the public wants to know there are humans in the cockpit. Well that human took them to their deaths -- a computer did not do that.

[HERVEPA]

68. If you'd like to learn why you need a pilot

I suggest you check out info from an actual pilot with a great column

This: http://www.boston.com/community/blogs/askthepilot/2013/03/the_five_most_annoying_myths_a.html
and this: http://www.salon.com/2011/08/04/can_jetliners_fly_themselves/

and everything at askthepilot.com

[Logical]

65. LOL, you are the classic INTERNET EXPERT! I love it. nt

[mikeysnot]

2. Frustrating for sure

but imagine how frustrating it is for the families involved...

[Swede Atlanta]

3. That is a rather callous post.....

What if you had a family member onboard this flight? Would you be advocating pulling the plug on the investigation/search? The U.S. is engaged in this effort so arguably you may be paying $.02 for this work. But in the aggregate I think the world community is still committed to trying to find out what happened (to avoid this in future or protect against it) as well to provide answers to the family and friends of those lost souls.

I don't disagree that this is enormously expensive and most of the cost is being born by countries other than Malaysia and Malaysia Airlines.

But this is when humanity collectively pulls together, rallies resources and tries to solve a human challenge. More than 2/3 of those aboard were Chinese and China has played an important role from satellite surveillance to ships, etc.

[woolldog]

16. Thank you.

[jberryhill]

41. If I had a loved one on the plane

I would urge the money be spent on people in need instead of my dead loved one.

There are not going to be any remains found, although I've never understood the obsession with recovering remains.

Guess what - a whole lot of people die every day under tragic circumstances. There is nothing about the loss of these people which is exceptional in that regard.

The way we fetishize particular tragedies is obscene. If your loved one died in 9/11, you get a check. If your loved one died the same day from some other unspeakable crime, well, tough shit.

[Yo_Mama]

55. Very well put!

Thank you.

[cordelia]

59. Nicely said.

Thanks for your compassion.

[JI7]

4. that's fucked up , we spend money on all types of shit , this is something worth spending on

[pintobean]

6. Auto-trash by Keyword /nt

[upaloopa]

7. I wonder if your kid or spouse were one of the passengers

would you want them to call of the search?
Plus what about all the liability claims. How will the courts decide?
There are more reason I can't think of now

[wercal]

8. Need to hit the 40 day mark

The pingers must be rated for 30 days...but I read today that they can last as long as 40 days.

So as I understand it, the will troll around for another ten days looking for the pings again. If that doesn't turn up anything, the submersibles will then potentially spend years 'mowing' a 5 square mile piece of ocean floor, where the pings were heard.

[seveneyes]

10. If those were real black box pings the other day, it should be located by now

Once a radio signal is locked on, it does not take more than a few hours to triangulate its precise location. Any word on where they are with it?

[oldhippie]

22. It wasn't a radio signal ....

It's acoustic. It works differently. The sensor being used doesn't "lock on" to the bearing of a signal like an RF system can.

[itsrobert]

23. Exactly

They have 1960s technology on a plane worth three hundred million dollars. The signal broadcast should at least contain a serial number that corresponds to the black box/plane.

[Glassunion]

31. The signal broadcast cannot really do that.

The pinger is basically something that sends out an acoustic pulse. It is not like a radio wave or digital transmission where you can encode other data.

[Glassunion]

57. It's not a radio signal. It's an audio signal.

[treestar]

14. Why now when they are getting closer?

After a lot of effort, and some progress made, most people can't give up.

[FarCenter]

17. Too bad that the pings aren't modulated with the black box's serial number

If they could have told for certain that the pings were coming from the sought after devices, they would now definitely know what happened to MH370.

There is very little more that can be gained by actually recovering the black box or pieces of the wreckage.

What information would you get that would cause the aircraft manufacturers and operators to change something? Only actionable information has value.

[CJCRANE]

18. I don't understand your conclusion.

Surely if they find the black boxes and debris they might be able to understand what happened?

That's actionable (or at least they might know if they need to take action).

[itsrobert]

24. I agree

I just posted something similar, without even reading your post first.

[Glassunion]

33. You really cannot modulate an acoustic ping.

At best you could adjust the pings to a specific rhythm that could be decoded like a Morse Code.

[dilby]

19. Sure beats spening Millions on bombing the middle east.

I would rather they put the money into MH370 than where it would be going if they were not searching for it.

[Raine1967]

20. I Would love for you to be so brave to tell that to the families of the lost.

Last edited Tue Apr 8, 2014, 06:52 PM - Edit history (1)

This is the second OP I have seen of such a topic.

I find it rather oogly. It's real easy* say to say something like this when it does't personally affect you.

interesting.

*ETA: the word easy.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. Air France 442 I am going to lay a bet

that they had not much of an issue and I will leave it at that.

As to telling the families. I have told families of patients when they have passed on, and it is not something I recommend. In this case, well.

There are TECHNICAL reasons they might have to suspend the search (we are entering summer, they are entering winter, weather becomes down right nasty), but I expect it to be resumed as soon as they can.

[Raine1967]

69. Understood.

I still find it unsavory to see people here saying such things.

I also believe that 442 had a few bodies and such recovered a few days after the plane went missing. They had something to assume those aboard were dead. It took a few years before the black box was found -- but it was found.

To allude that enough time has been spent on this flight is --as I said before -- oogly.

[99Forever]

25. Why?

Are you personally footing the bill?

I have no dog in this fight and this is my one only post with regards to this tragedy, but how long the search continues or what it costs, isn't up to people such as you and I. Nor should it be.

[edbermac]

27. This could have been a terrorist act.

No it is not the time to pull the plug.

[marions ghost]

28. That would be laughable

if it weren't so unfunny.

They research most air disasters. Like somebody said upthread--the world is pulling together for once!

[itsrobert]

32. I think Malasyia is covering this up

just a feeling some military did something by accident.

[marions ghost]

36. I agree there is bad weirdness

of some kind. If we can find the plane there's hope of finding out what.

There may be a coverup. But I'm not sure who's ass is being covered.

[madinmaryland]

29. Are you serious??

I have heard similar shite from my conservative "colleagues".

[liberal N proud]

30. What will CNN do?

[ManiacJoe]

35. The money would be spent any way.

The only difference is which account it comes out of, training vs mission.
The men get paid regardless.
The ships are at sea regardless.
The planes get flown, either as "training" or "real missions".

[marions ghost]

40. Good point

I think it can be argued that the various responders do need real-world search and rescue experiences.
A better use for military forces than some missions, I think. I don't mind the money spent on this at all.

If we must have defense forces, IMO they should be trained to respond in any humanitarian crisis or large scale search such as this.

It's great to see the several nations pulling together. A good model for when we have to deal with severe environmental crises on a worldwide basis.

[Mojo Electro]

37. The way I see it....

Money has already been spent to develop all these technologies, and to build all these ships and airplanes. Some of the technology being used was probably initially invented for the purpose of war. Why not now use it to find this airplane?

It is a multinational effort by several wealthy nations. They can afford it.

It's a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things, and it is actually going for something worthwhile, as opposed to finding new and efficient ways to kill people.

Of all the insanely bullshit reasons that governments tend to spend money, search and rescue is one I can get behind. I realize that it's pretty much certain those passengers did not survive, but that doesn't mean finding the answer does not have immense value.

They will keep looking, and I believe they will eventually find it. I support the effort.

[Nye Bevan]

38. Why do so many DUers get all fiscally conservative on this issue? (nt)

[marions ghost]

42. Because we've been robbed...

on a very large scale. By predators within our boundaries.

You get suspicious and learn to always follow the money. But in this case, it seems justified.

[zappaman]

56. Great question.

I'm sure Dick Cheney sees it as a waste of money as well.

[XRubicon]

44. Yeah! It's time to pull the plug on cancer research too! How much do we need to spend on that!

[Lex]

48. Ridiculous. And inhumane. nt

[Johonny]

50. How much would a Malaysia/ Chinese conflict cost?

Because the Chinese are a little pissed at the moment. I imagine just blowing off the search would not help ease tensions any.

[customerserviceguy]

51. Remember that reply at the top of this thread?

About how much a Triple Seven costs? Even if Boeing itself had to bear 100% of the costs, it would.

Smart people are not going to want to fly on one until it's found, especially on international flights. If it's been taken, then the 777 flight that YOU are on might be blown up, so that this one can be substituted in its place. If it's a catastrophic failure of what was considered one of the safest aircraft in the world, so severe that a helpless pilot and co-pilot were simply unable to communicate distress in several hours of flying after the crippling event, then you wouldn't want to fly on it either.

A crash with a reason becomes the first step in eliminating that reason, making it possible to sell more of these.

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. I would like you to check how long it took to find the black boxes from

Air France 447

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447

Two bloody years.

Second call here to can this search (which for the record is now a search\training exercise, not kidding), and I find this curious.

[zappaman]

53. Sorry, but I don't think there should be a price tag on this

We need to know what happened, especially since it doesn't look like pilot suicide, to make a plane malfunction like it did.
That and people need closure.
I can't imagine how horrible it would be to have a loved one go missing and even if they know deep down inside that they will never see that person again, not even knowing what happened is a horrible thing to carry through life.

[MineralMan]

58. No, it's not.

We need to find out what happened. You're incorrect.

[Logical]

60. Not a deep thinker I assume? n-t

[Agschmid]

62. All this equipment already exists...

We might as well use it. Also if I knew someone who was on that plane I'd sure want them to find it.

Hell I don't even know anyone and I still want them to find it.

[CFLDem]

63. Nope

Nope nope and nope.

[Texasgal]

64. It's only been a month!

Goodness! These families deserve to know what happened! They need to keep looking!!!

[DrDan]

67. not yet . . . have a heart - there are family and friends who need closure

quit thinking with your pocketbook

[itsrobert]

70. Post is turning into a bash fest

I haven't alerted on all the people calling me names, etc. I am just going to close to self delete. Thanks, I appreciate the people with constructive feedback, input, etc,. But some bad apples on DU need to mind their manners.