Capitalism Is War (The Big Lie of the Greek "Bail Out")

[JackRiddler]

GREEK DEBT NUMBERS AND RECOMMENDED ACTIONS: 2010 AND 2014

The graphic below is quite revealing. In 2010, Greek national debt was 300 billion euros, GDP was 235 billion, and unemployment was 10%. In response, markets struck on Greek debt. The Troika demanded the "memoranda" deals, with their imposition of extreme austerity conditions on the Greek people, in exchange for so-called "bailouts," most of which actually did not go to Greece but were used to pay the banks. Three Greek governments complied in full, meeting the protests of the people with brutality and a rising authoritarianism.

After four years of this program, Greek debt in 2014 has risen to 340 billion, GDP has plunged to 180 billion, and unemployment is up to 28% (officially). In response to the new situation, which is much worse than the one in 2010, the Troika and the Greek government claim that Greece is a "success story," ready to issue new debt on markets and to pay additional yields.

There is only one conclusion to be drawn: the idea of the Troika plan was never to "bail out" or save Greece, or to improve conditions in any way for the people. This was always a lie. The idea behind austerity and the memoranda was always to push Greece further into debt slavery, to destroy millions of lives and to break the people, because this creates a defeated, low-wage paradise with low asset prices allowing an easier sell-off of the country's public and private wealth. Capitalism is war. "Economics" is its propaganda.

[DetlefK]

1. That's the biggest bullshit I have heard so far about Greece.

Really?
You think the IMF and the EU are plotting to ruin a country that's already close to collapse, in order to further a political agenda that has no political backing in the EU?
You think, the European Central Bank (a federation of the national banks of the eurozone) is intentionally endangering the Euro in a scheme that it won't profit from?

[JackRiddler]

6. The results speak for themselves.

There was never any doubt what the austerity program would do, or what it has already done around the world. So when this proven poison was applied to Greece, of course it bore the same positive labels as always. The IMF never comes in saying, "we're the enforcement for the bankers and we're going to break your knuckles," of course they say, "this is good for you!" But no excuses should be made, or can be made any longer. After so many years, everyone knows exactly what the neoliberal attack program does. It is of course what the IMF has always done - until now outside the Western sphere. So Greece is a special case, an experiment in bringing third-world conditions to Europe.

Your idea that this political agenda "has no political backing in the EU" is laughable, since self-evidently it was backed to the hilt by the institutional EU, who were willing to suspend democratic rights in Greece and elsewhere to impose it. Germany in particular supports the euro as long as the euro profits German interests. A Greek default wouldn't have done that. And if the euro ceases to profit Germany, Germany will leave the euro. It has proven that it is not willing to bear the costs of maintaining the euro, and prefers instead to risk this project and to impose authoritarianism in a place like Greece.

Also, because I respect you until you prove otherwise, I doubt very much that you have never heard this argument before, even if you disagree. If that's true, you must live in a sorrowfully small bubble indeed!

[Octafish]

8. Joseph Stiglitz wondered about this and got tossed from his job at the World Bank.

Greg Palast: Why Are the Greek People Agreeing to Their Own Destruction?

By Michael Nevradakis, Truthout | Interview
Friday, 09 August 2013 00:00

EXCERPT...

In his critique of privatization programs, Palast referenced Joseph Stiglitz, the Nobel Prize-winning economist who had been the World Bank's chief economist prior to being fired for expressing dissent against its policies. &quot Stiglitz) called privatization 'briberization' because ... when we talk about privatization, we talk about a couple of guys who are close to the government in Greece, who are close to the German government, and they pick up the properties for next to nothing."

One of the biggest controversies in Greece over the past year has involved the Skouries gold mine. Originally transferred to private hands by the Greek state in 2004 for the paltry sum of 11 million euros, the mine has since come into the possession of the Canadian company Eldorado Gold, which has commenced mining activities. This has resulted in a vociferous grassroots movement, protesting the mine on both economic and environmental grounds. According to Palast, companies like Eldorado Gold prey on vulnerable countries.

"What they do is, they wait for the moment where a nation is really weak and on its back, and has to give away its gold. Tanzania sold its gold mines for nothing under IMF pressure to Barrick Gold. They've made billions and billions and billions."
"Let's not kid ourselves," added Palast. "Nobody gets a gold mine without making a payoff to the powers that be. That's just how it is ... they're not privatizing, they're stealing your gold."

CONTINUED...

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/18069-why-are-the-greek-people-agreeing-to-their-own-destruction

There's amazingly little coverage in Corporate McPravda. Oh well. Next up: Austerity for Americans!

[DetlefK]

9. Your rant is ridiculous on its face and I demand sources.

* Please present proof that the EU had sinister intentions when dealing with one of its own member-countries, aside from the a-posteriori conclusion "it turned out bad, so they must have wanted it to be bad".
* Please present a list of european politicians and/or european parties that voiced support to the idea to turn Greece into a low-wage nation to exploit.
* Please present evidence that Germany has ever hinted at possibly leaving the Eurozone.
* Please list the steps Germany has taken (through it's Fourth Reich, the EU) to replace democracy in Greece with an EU-backed authoritarian regime.

Those darn power-hungry Germans with their refusal to bail out a country with a bloated bureaucracy, rampant tax-evasion and rampant corruption. It's all their fault. Why won't they do the right thing and throw their taxpayer-money at an international problem until it disappears?

And how exactly am I supposed to prove that I have never heard your argument before?

[JackRiddler]

10. Junge, junge, junge...

Ich kauf es dir nicht ab. Sorry. Nicht mal ein Student der Betriebswirtschaftschule kann so realitaetsfremd sein.

Erstens, ob Deutschland wegen der Krise bezahlen soll? Aber Deutschland (der D. Steuerzahler) hat bisjetzt ganz viel bezahlt - eben an deutschen und europaeische Banken, nicht aber an Griechenland (nur dass es als griechischer Schuld gebucht wird).

Das Troika-Programm ist wirtschaftlicher Krieg. Derselber wie IMF in Suedamerika und Afrika schon seit Jahrzehnten fuerhrt. Es gab nie eine Chance dass die Resultate anders sein koennten, oder dass man so realitaetsfremd sein kann, dass man nicht wusste, was mit "Austerity" unvermeidlich kommen wurde. Wenn die Mittel des wirtschaftlichen Krieges angewandt werden, dann ist es eben Krieg. Ein Teil davon ist es, das Programm "Hilfe" zu nennen. So macht man es auch mit Bomben.

Keineswegs sage ich, dass Deutschland bezahlen soll - ausser natuerlich die Reparationen fuer den Zweiten Weltkrieg. Letztendlich die Nettozahlungen gehen aus Griechenland, d.h., es ist Griechenland, das nicht bezahlen soll. Das Problem ist auf jeden Fall griechisch - das sind die griechische Regierungen, die diesen "Schulden" bezahlt haben, statt sofort in 2009 die Zahlungen einzustellen. Das sind griechische Regierungen, die Krieg gegen ihr eigenes Volk gefuehrt haben.

[DetlefK]

12. Deine Argumentationsform kommt mir bekannt vor...

"Öffne dein Herz und lass Gott hinein, dann wirst du die Wahrheit erkennen!"
"Öffne deine Augen und erkenne meine Schlussfolgerung an, dann wirst du die Wahrheit erkennen."

Weißt du, was die Folterknechte der Kirche im Mittelalter Ketzern vorgeworfen haben, wenn diese sich weigerten, das kirchliche Dogma fraglos zu akzeptieren? "Ihr seid verstockt!" Man hat ihnen vorgeworfen, sich absichtlich geistig zu verschließen.
Und jetzt wirfst du mir vor, realitätsfremd zu sein, weil ich mich weigere, dir ohne Beweise zuzustimmen.

Wo sind die Beweise? Wo sind die Beweise für ein Handeln der EU in böswilliger Absicht? Wo sind die Beweise, dass die EU Griechenland geschadet hat, damit jemand auf nationaler Ebene davon profitiert? Wo sind die Beweise, dass Deutschland einen Notfallplan hat, um den Euro wieder loszuwerden?
Außerdem ist Deutschland der größte Beitragszahler der Eurozone. Wenn die EU viel Geld verteilen will, muss sie deutsches Geld verteilen und dann muss Deutschland zustimmen. Das ist nur fair.

Griechenland hat seinen Aufschwung und seine Entwicklung zur Korruption nur durch EU-Fördergelder erlebt. Griechenland hatte nicht die Strukturen, um so viel Entwicklungshilfe vernünftig anzulegen. Und Griechenland wird die EU auch in Zukunft als Verbündeten brauchen. Sich dem Hilfsprogramm der Troika zu verweigern, aufgezwungen oder nicht, hätte das Risiko internationaler Isolation bedeutet, das hätte Handelspartner und Banken nervös gemacht und Griechenland endgültig zu Fall gebracht.
Wer hätte Staatsanleihen von einem Land gekauft, das sich internationaler Hilfe verweigert?



(Du hast ein paar Grammatik-Fehler gemacht. Lass mich raten: Israeli?)

[JackRiddler]

17. Fuer Naivetaet dieses Ausmasses, gibt es keine Hilfe.

Ich bin mir sicher, Du wirst Dein Platz an den mittleren Ebenen von irgendwelcher Unternehmen oder Propaganda-Institut finden.

Solange Du mit Metaphern kommen willst, was das moderne Mittelalter betrifft: Dein Text liesst sich als ob du irgenwelcher TV-Werbung im Kinderprogramm als moralisch verteidigen willst. Also ob, ich gesagt haette, Zuckerbomben sind nicht gut fuer die Kinder. Dann bist Du extrem beleidigt, und verlangst, ich solle es entweder zuruecknehmen oder dokumentarisch beweisen, dass Kelloggs absichtlich die Kinderzaehne schaedigen will. Das ist aber nicht mal die Frage, sondern: sind Zuckerbomben Scheisse oder nicht? Mehr braucht man nicht zu wissen, als dass die EU ein wohlbekannter Mittel des Wirtschaftskrieges gegen Griechenland angewandt hat. Die Schuld, habe ich schon gesagt, liegt bei den griechischen Regierungen, die ein solches Programm auch ausgefuehrt haben.

(Meine Grammatik-Fehler durfen dir egal sein, oder? Ich sage auch nichts, ueber deinen Englisch, nur deine fehlende Logik und Apologetik fuer ein krimineller System.)

[dotymed]

14. It won't profit from?

Driving the value of the commons, utilities...everything, to bargain basement prices and buying them (through proxy if need be), resulting in HUGE profits..come on.

[TBF]

2. Yes - and Iceland shows how to deal with it:

Iceland rises from the ashes of banking collapse
Populist programme of new government includes a squeeze on foreign creditors as country emerges from years of instability
Simon Bowers in Reykjavik
The Guardian, Sunday 6 October 2013 14.38 EDT

A new mood of proud nationalism is emerging in economically resurgent Iceland after an out-of-control banking system sank the country into financial meltdown exactly five years ago. Riding this wave of confidence is 38-year-old prime minister, Sigmundur Davíd Gunnlaugsson, elected in April on populist promises of mortgage relief for every homeowner.

Gunnlaugsson earned his spurs in years of outspoken campaigning against the foreign creditors who still haunt Iceland, particularly the British and the Dutch governments, which intervened after the collapse of Landsbanki – the bank behind Icesave – on 7 October 2008.

Hundreds of thousands of ordinary British and Dutch savers had previously switched their savings into online Icesave accounts, attracted by market-beating interest rates and promises that: "You can also rest assured that with Icesave you are offered the same level of financial protection as every bank in the UK."

When the crash came, however, Iceland's deposit guarantee proved worthless, forcing the UK and the Netherlands to use their own taxpayer funds to compensate ordinary savers and sparking a poisonous diplomatic row.

It was a spat that, against the odds, Iceland won ...

More here: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/06/iceland-financial-recovery-banking-collapse

[Octafish]

3. Goldmine Sacked

Lazy Ouzo-Swilling, Olive-Pit Spitting Greeks
Or, How Goldman Sacked Greece

Sunday, November 6, 2011
by Greg Palast for In These Times

EXCERPT...

I'll cut to the indictment: Greece is a crime scene. The people are victims of a fraud, a scam, a hustle and a flim-flam. And––cover the children's ears when I say this––a bank named Goldman Sachs is holding the smoking gun.

In 2002, Goldman Sachs secretly bought up €2.3 billion in Greek government debt, converted it all into yen and dollars, then immediately sold it back to Greece.

Goldman took a huge loss on the trade.

Is Goldman that stupid?

Goldman is stupid—like a fox. The deal was a con, with Goldman making up a phony-baloney exchange rate for the transaction. Why?

Goldman had cut a secret deal with the Greek government in power then. Their game: to conceal a massive budget deficit. Goldman's fake loss was the Greek government's fake gain.

Goldman would get repayment of its “loss” from the government at loan-shark rates.

The point is, through this crazy and costly legerdemain, Greece's right-wing free-market government was able to pretend its deficits never exceeded 3 percent of GDP.

Cool. Fraudulent but cool.

But flim-flam isn’t cheap these days: On top of murderous interest payments, Goldman charged the Greeks over a quarter billion dollars in fees.

When the new Socialist government of George Papandreou came into office, they opened up the books and Goldman's bats flew out. Investors' went berserk, demanding monster interest rates to lend more money to roll over this debt.

Greece's panicked bondholders rushed to buy insurance against the nation going bankrupt. The price of the bond-bust insurance, called a credit default swap (or CDS), also shot through the roof. Who made a big pile selling the CDS insurance? Goldman.

And those rotting bags of CDS's sold by Goldman and others? Didn't they know they were handing their customers gold-painted turds?

That's Goldman's specialty. In 2007, at the same time banks were selling suspect CDS's and CDOs (packaged sub-prime mortgage securities), Goldman held a “net short” position against these securities. That is, Goldman was betting their financial "products" would end up in the toilet. Goldman picked up another half a billion dollars on their "net short" scam.

CONTINUED w/links etc....

http://www.gregpalast.com/lazy-ouzo-swilling-olive-pit-spitting-greeksor-how-goldman-sacked-greece/

[dipsydoodle]

4. rinse repeat

Same exercise will now be carried out in Ukraine.

btw - current debt in Greece is higher but actually costs them far less due to the use of lower interest rates. The downside of that is that most of the replacement debt is secured by English law , as opposed to earlier use of local law , secured against state assets and with the likelyhood of future writedowns being remote.

[jeff47]

5. The problem is a currency union without a real political union.

The US works because there's federal spending to help cover for reduced state spending. All those retirees in Florida still get their Social Security checks, for example. That greatly helps cover for economic shocks - states that are in financial trouble automatically get help from states that are not via federal spending.

Also the federal policy gives a lot more ways to fix problems - housing in FL is waaaaaay too expensive thanks to the bubble. Higher inflation set at the federal level can help fix that problem, much to ND's dismay - they'd prefer lower inflation due to their current boom environment.

The EU does not have that. They don't have EU-wide spending programs automatically injecting money into the periphery. And policy such as interest rates is not set for the EU as a whole, it's basically set for Germany. Germans funded the boom in the periphery, but are not really suffering economically after the bust - they didn't have a giant bubble. So Germans want low inflation. Greece and the rest of the periphery would do much better with high inflation, in order to reduce effective prices.

Since Germany calls the shots, the EU has low inflation. The periphery can only correct their prices through deflation. And you get the terrible results for Greece in your OP.

[JackRiddler]

7. No, actually.

The euro is merely one means of many towards accomplishing the same goals of homogenizing markets and breaking labor worldwide.

The "problem" is the normal functioning of capitalism and its financial sector. U.S. states have also imposed austerity programs, rolled back union rights, etc. The U.S. remains much bigger and richer than Greece, it is true, so things here have not gotten as bad. But when the time comes that Social Security is judged to be too expensive after all, the campaign to cut it will resume - and the only thing that will stop it then will be massive popular resistance. In Greece, resistance was met with giant clouds of teargas, battalions of riot police, and state facilitation of a neo-Nazi movement as a counter-weight to the left. The same or similar will happen here; one hopes it won't work, but it will be tried, without a doubt.

[jeff47]

18. That is a different problem.

Stuff became more expensive during the bubble because money poured into Greece. Money poured out of Greece in the bust. That leaves prices too high. They can fix it in two ways: Inflation or deflation. Inflation requires having control of your currency, and deflation happens "automatically" if you do not inflate. So they are going through deflation, which sends unemployment skyrocketing and GDP cratering.

That crisis creates a "shock doctrine" excuse to attack labor, but the underlying currency problem still exists. Labor-friendly politics can not fix the currency problem. Austerity programs can't fix it either, but rich folks like blowing away their own feet with the austerity shotgun.

Why'd Iceland do so much better? They have their own currency, and inflated away a good chunk of the bubble. They also used the crisis "shock doctrine"-style to reign in their banking system and other corrupt institutions built up during the bubble. But those changes prevent future problems, they did not eliminate the crisis caused by the bubble.

[xchrom]

11. du rec.

[go west young man]

13. More proof that even EU politicians are in it for themselves

and the top 1%. Why else would they continue with the same failed policies?

[zeemike]

15. I don't pretend to understand all of this.

But it seems to me that the goal is to own the resources and public property of other countries...forceing their governments to sell it off to pay the debts.
One day Goldman Sacks might own the Parthenon and charge admission to enter it and royalties on it's image.

The only thing you can do with enormous wealth is buy the land, and once they own all of that you have feudalism...a return to the days of kings, vassals, and slaves.

[geretogo]

16. This same plan to produce debt slaves is being imposed on America to build a totalitarian corporate

state .

[JackRiddler]

19. bump